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36C3 - The Case Against WikiLeaks: a direct threat to our community

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    36c3 preroll music
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    Herald Angel: OK. So our next speakers are
    going to talk about the charges against
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    Julian Assange and WikiLeaks, which is a
    topic that's very close to our hearts. I
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    guess, most our hearts at least. And it's
    also something that's incredibly important
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    for us as a community and it's a threat
    against the entire tech community,
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    minorities, human rights advocates,
    activists. So a lot of people you
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    should really care about. And the speakers
    are Renata Avila, who's the executive
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    director of Fundación Ciudadanía
    Inteligente. Yay!
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    applause
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    Renata Avila: Well done.
    Herald Angel: Naomi Colvin, who is the UK
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    program director at Blueprint for Free
    Speech - which is much easier to
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    pronounce, thank you so much -
    supporting applause and speakers laughing
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    Herald Angel: And Angel Richter, who's a
    director and writer and artist and a lot
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    of things, and she specializes on
    whistleblowing and digital dissidents, and
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    one of the plays, which is transmedia
    play. You might know, it's called Super
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    Nerds. So a round of applause for our
    amazing speakers. And let's begin the talk.
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    applause and cheering
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    Angela Richter: Thank you very much. Good
    evening, everyone, and thank you for
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    coming here tonight. And thank you also
    for our introduction by the moderator, a
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    very charming guy, as I thought. And also
    good to give a little bit lightness to
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    this - for me very serious issue actually
    - that we are here. Like you said, I am
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    an artist. And for me, WikiLeaks was very
    important. And also Julian Assange,
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    because somehow they were the entrance for
    me as an artist to this community that
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    became very dear to me in the last 10
    years. And I attended some of the
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    Congresses in the last 10 years and
    learned a lot about things that I never
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    knew before. So I owe a lot, actually, to
    WikiLeaks and also to this community,
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    because it opened so many things for me
    up. So, yeah, this I wanted to say first
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    and then I will also show a little piece
    of a recent play I did in Zagreb. It's by
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    Slavoj Žižek, who is also supported by
    Julian. And it is not so much... It is
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    related to our topic. It's a little bit
    like a mood board that we want to show
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    before we start.
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    Richter: And like he said, this will be
    about how we can support WikiLeaks. And of
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    course, Julian Assange, which is also a
    very personal matter for me, because he
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    became a very close friend in the last 10
    years who I also owe a lot. And on the
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    other hand, I think it's not only about
    him and his life, which is serious enough,
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    but I think that this thing that is
    happening to him, that he's being charged
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    with the Espionage Act - this is the first
    time that something like this happens to a
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    publisher - is a threat to free speech to
    all of our freedom. And it means that
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    actually everyone who speaks truth to
    power can be kidnapped, extradited to the
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    US and then end up in prison for the rest
    of his life. And I think that this is -
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    for this community also - a threat,
    especially because we all know that we are
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    trying to be secure. Secure free speech is
    very important issue here. So, yeah. We
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    will go into the details in the course of
    this week. Thank you very much.
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    video with soft, slow,
    but deep orchestra music
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    music gets more,
    dramatic and continues
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    voices of the speakers are not heard,
    music continues
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    applause followed by short
    silence
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    Renata Avila: We will try to be brief to
    leave enough time for questions, because
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    we think that you have a lot of questions
    on this case and so we will alternate and
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    discuss different issues, starting with:
    What are we at now?
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    Richter: Yes. On the left side, you see
    Belmarsh Prison. This is the high security
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    prison that Julian is housed at the
    moment. And what I find very chilling
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    about it,is that it's actually a place
    where usually you find terrorists,
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    murderers and mafia people and so on. So,
    high criminals. And he is only at the
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    moment being held there for extradition
    reasons, which is also extreme, because he
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    is 23 hours a day alone in his cell, which
    is actually isolation. And then the next
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    picture shows a typical room in a prison
    in Virginia, where Chelsea Manning is held
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    at the moment, again. And I think, it must
    be something like 10 months in the
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    meantime, that she is again in prison,
    because she is not willing to testify
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    against Julian Assange in front of a grand
    jury.
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    Avila: So raise your hand if you have less
    than 30 years. So -
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    Richter: OK. Thank you.
    Avila: - that says a lot, because it means
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    that probably your first encounter with
    WikiLeaks was just only 5 years ago. And
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    you were a teen, when many things were
    happening. And we know that today is Young
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    Hackers Day, so it was important for us to
    quickly go through the important
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    publications that WikiLeaks published in
    the last decade. Why? Because there are
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    many misconceptions since 2016 and a lot
    of misinformation followed the election of
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    Donald Trump. And so we want to show here
    and it is, of course, not a detailed list.
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    You can find a detailed list on WikiLeaks,
    on Wikipedia - two concepts at the
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    beginning were all of them mixed,
    actually. And the same principles followed,
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    I would say. But what I want to show here
    is the most impactful publications by
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    WikiLeaks, that changed the course of
    history in many places and also -
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    highlighted in green - their political
    persecution moments. Not only against
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    Julian Assange, but against other people
    that were closely connected to these
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    developments in the last decade. So 2008
    was a very exciting year for WikiLeaks
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    because I think that - even if it was
    created before - was the year that it got
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    mainstream. Why? Because it changed
    elections in Kenya by exposing
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    extrajudicial killings. And it really
    changed the outcome of the election. Like
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    people realized that one of the candidates
    was involved in these extrajudicial
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    killings of young people. And that really
    impacted deeply the African nation. Not
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    only that, you may have forgotten about
    that, but he was the first publication of
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    the batch of emails from Sarah Palin. And
    also, there were lots of publications in
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    Latin America. That's how I became
    familiar with WikiLeaks and very excited
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    about that. Petrol Gate, the biggest
    scandal of corruption in Peru. And so,
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    publications involving Guerillas and False
    Positives in the Colombian war. It has
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    started, like, from the places from
    Africa, from Latin America and also the
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    US. On 2009, I will say that the highlight
    and why WikiLeaks became very busy, well,
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    it exposed a lot of the censorship lists
    out of China and Iran and other countries.
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    The Internet was not what it used ... it
    is not what it is today. Censorship was
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    tangible. You will see a blocked website.
    And now, as we will discuss later, now
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    it's a different form of censorship. And
    so WikiLeaks at the moment was the
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    guardian of this free internet and also it
    was their big moment in Iceland. And the
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    big opportunity for WikiLeaks as well. In
    a jurisdiction to become not only a
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    publisher, but a designer of a new
    ecosystem of freedom of information. So it
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    exposed the corrupt involving the
    financial scandal there. And it got
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    really, really exciting there. Things,
    like the EME initiative and all the things
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    that are now part of our history. Then
    2010 and then 2010 was the year when
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    things started to get really complicated.
    Why? Because instead of torching countries
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    in the periphery or torching developing
    countries. So it's OK. It's always cool to
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    expose there by human rights violations of
    an African or Latin American person in
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    power. But when you torch the center of
    power, when you torch the most powerful
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    military in the world, you get into
    trouble. So on 2010, Collateral Murder
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    video was published, The Afghan War
    Diaries, Iraq War Logs and cable gate. And
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    that was the moment when Julian Assange
    was arrested. It was not arrested because
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    of the publications. It was just a few
    days after the publication started that he
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    was arrested on behalf of Sweden. And no
    charges, it was not because of charges. It
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    was because of ongoing investigation.
    2011, the Gitmo files, spy files, the spy
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    files. The first batch of publication, 160
    companies involved in mass surveillance,
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    private mass surveillance. That was Pre-
    Snowden, remember that. And that, at that
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    moment Julian only spent a little in the
    same prison that he is now, only a few days.
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    Then he was released on bail. But from
    that moment, from the moment that he put,
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    he presented himself - he surrendered
    himself to the police, he never hide -
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    he voluntarily went there when he was
    requested. From that moment, his life
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    became a hell of surveillance. He was, not
    only, had a tag on his ankle following him
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    everywhere, but he had the most strict
    bail conditions that you can imagine. He
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    could not even give a talk in London
    because he will have to go back. He had
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    ridiculous hours to report himself to the
    police. He was watched all the time. He
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    had to report to the police on a daily
    basis. Someone suspected of terrorism was
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    enjoying more relaxed conditions than
    someone who wasn't charged. And that's a
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    constant. In this case and other
    politically motivated cases, you are not
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    the rule, you are the exception. And
    exceptionally harsh the system treats you.
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    In 2012 struck for e-mails and also the
    Syria files. Syria files is a publication
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    that is not often mentioned, but it was
    very relevant. Exposing all the dealings
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    of the Syrian elites. And Julian is
    granted political asylum in Ecuador. He
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    could have requested political asylum much
    earlier, but he wanted to go through all
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    the legal process in the UK and all their
    appeals. And it was his last chance to
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    exercise that right. Then 2013, the TPP
    text and Spy Files 2. And that was the
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    moment when Manning was sentenced to 35
    years in prison. As Snowden is granted
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    asylum in Moscow as well. And Jeremy
    Hammond is convicted and sentenced to 10
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    years in prison. Jeremy Hammond is the
    alleged source of the Stratford, the
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    Global Intelligence Files. Then 2014 TISA,
    Spy Files 3 and the updated TPP text, then
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    2015, the Sony archives, the Saudi cables.
    Actually, that Saudi cable publication was
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    one of the most dangerous ones. You
    saw what happened to journalist Jamal
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    Khashoggi. I mean, it is very, very
    dangerous publication and hacking team
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    searchable database and the TPP final
    texts. This is very important because it
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    really changed the life for better of
    loads of people. I personally work on
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    global trade issues and the negotiators of
    developing countries or representing
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    under-represented communities, like, they
    are so thankful to WikiLeaks for releasing
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    and publishing the TPP/IP chapter because
    it means better access to medicine. It got
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    the people with better conditions for
    negotiations in key issues such as access
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    to medicines. Then 2016, I would say that
    I will compare to 2010. And then you,
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    again, torch the center of power.
    WikiLeaks torch again the center of power
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    by publishing the Clinton, Podesta and DNC
    emails. And that change allowed the
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    narrative and changed a lot the narrative
    in a very different world because it was
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    not any more tangible censorship on deck
    or the clear publication. But our
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    information ecosystem, as we know, had
    been modified by social networks, by
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    different forms of distributing and
    accessing content. 2017, Obama leaves the
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    administration by commuting Chelsea
    Manning sentence and she's later release
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    that year. And WikiLeaks publishes NSA
    spying on French Election. Vault 7, which
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    is their tool kit of spying of the CIA and
    the spy files of Russia. 2018, Amazon
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    Atlas, US embassy shopping list and their
    weapon dealers details. Here is very
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    important that the conditions of Julian
    changed radically after 2016 at the
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    Ecuadorian embassy and the pressure of the
    US increased terribly. And he was not
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    allowed anymore to do his job as a
    journalist. He spent most of the year
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    gagged, and he could not participate
    activel, directly on his role
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    as editor. And 2019, you saw in the video.
    Assange is arrested. Manning is arrested
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    again. But in spite of that, in spite of
    all the pressure, WikiLeaks refuses to
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    shut down and continues publishing. The
    Pope orders, the Douma Chemical Attack and
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    Fishrot. So as you can see, Julian has
    upset and WikiLeaks has upset enough
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    people from the most powerful army in the
    world to the most powerful governments to
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    the most powerful corporations. And so
    their plans, frustrated with the TPP
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    collapse, and the TTAP collapse, and TISA
    collapse to even the Pope. So if you
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    upset, if you expose so many people, you
    have very few allies left. You have
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    basically the people as your allies. So
    that's why this talk is really, really,
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    really important. And you have also the
    media, because over the 10 years WikiLeaks
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    has worked closely with most of the news
    outlets all over the world. If you checked
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    your newspaper tomorrow morning, it's
    highly likely that it was one of the
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    WikiLeaks media partners. This is just a
    small sample of over 125
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    media organizations all over the
    world that had collaborated closely with
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    WikiLeaks.
    Richter: And I just want to add a very
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    interesting little detail that John Goetz
    told me, who was at that time - He's a
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    journalist. He now works for Süddeutsche
    and ARD - and at that time, he was working
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    for Der Spiegel, who also worked closely
    with WikiLeaks at that time, 2010. And
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    they published Cable Gate. And it's
    interesting to know that due to a
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    technical glitch, because the deal was
    that WikiLeaks publishes first and after
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    that, the newspapers follow. Spiegel, New
    York Times, Guardian and so on. And due to
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    this glitch, WikiLeaks was not able to
    publish in time. So they were too late
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    with the publishing and all the newspapers
    came out already. So technically they
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    published first, which is very important
    for the case in a way, because he's
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    charged because he published it first, the
    Cable Gate. And it would be interesting
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    because what does it mean? It means that
    actually the journalists from Spiegel and
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    New York Times and Guardian could face the
    same penalties. And when you imagin that,
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    then I think the impact it has on
    publishing becomes even more chilling and
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    clear, you know. So I thought to tell you
    this little detail about the publishing of
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    Cable Gate.
    Avila: So what happened on
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    April 11 when he was expelled from the
    embassy and dragged out is something that
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    goes beyond just Julian Assange. As a
    human rights lawyer, do you know when I
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    see political unrest, when I see people,
    dissidents at risk, I always tell them
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    have a good relationship with a friendly
    embassy, that defends human rights and in
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    case of trouble, get there, get inside an
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    embassy. It is happening now with
    dissidents in Bolivia, for example, who
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    are like right now at the embassy, in the
    embassy in Mexico. And we advise any of
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    you do that. But now with caution, because
    now, since the violation and since this
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    really brutal way that asylum was taken
    away from an illegal way, that asylum was
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    taken away from Julian and the way that
    police from a different country enters an
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    embassy, asylum has been weakened forever
    until we reverse this. That's why this is
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    yet another reason why this case is very
    important. Right now, you know, even the
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    government of Bolivia is threatening the
    Mexican embassy to get inside and take out
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    the dissidents seeking asylum inside the
    embassy. It is really upsetting to see how
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    an institution has over 400 years that was
    designed to protect dissidents is being
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    dismantled by this scandalous case. And
    well, when he was out, it happened what we
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    had predicted for years. For years we have
    been saying at the moment when his arrest
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    that they will unseal an indictment for
    espionage. And everyone will look at us
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    like back in 2010 and 2011, say, look,
    you're paranoid. There is no way that the
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    US is going to prosecute Julian. He's just
    hiding from Swedish charges that were
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    saying. Always charges, even there were
    never charges. And he is a coward and he's
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    a paranoid. And this is not going to
    happen. It happened immediately, and it
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    happened immediately. And just as
    predicted, it was so upsetting to see the
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    result of the Swedish investigation,
    because not only, over there, I mean,
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    there was a good journalist doing her job
    and she discovered over the years
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    different irregularities. Sweden wanted to
    shut down the case back in 2013, after the
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    asylum was granted. An obstacle... it was
    a collusion. And it's really good... if
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    you like documents and you like deep
    research, get into the documents that are
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    already available and see how the UK
    system put a lot of pressure on Sweden,
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    not to prosecute this case as they usually
    prosecute any case. Things as simple as a
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    videoconference could have been taking
    place back in 2010, back on August,
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    September 2010. And it didn't happen
    because of a lot of political pressure.
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    So, now the charges. There are 18 charges
    against Julian Assange and they might be
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    charges against more people who were
    mentioned in the indictment. The charges,
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    that he's facing for publishing, amount
    to 175 years in prison. And to make your
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    life simpler, basically the charges
    are: online publishing, protecting
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    sources and doing journalism. If you read
    what it is about, it's really chilling and
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    is especially chilling because look at
    who's in charge now. Right now all over
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    the world. And it is the first time that
    the Justice Department gets away with it.
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    It is using that very anachronic law to
    obtain an indictment from a grand jury,
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    that is from a group of people who thinks
    that it is okay to prosecute under
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    Espionage Act charges, online publication.
    If you get a takeaway from tonight: This
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    is the takeaway. This is the serious thing
    that we are discussing right now. And the
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    thing is, this is important, because at
    the center of this is our right to know.
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    The right to publish it on our site, is
    our right to know. Three relevant aspects
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    of the charges. You will read a lot of:
    "Oooh, but WikiLeaks and Julian had blood
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    on his hands." "It risked informants and
    put at risk." These charges have
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    nothing to do with this risk assessment.
    That will not be even known by the court.
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    These redactions and these measures of
    protection, that, over another in media,
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    not relevant for their espionage charges.
    And it is also important to notice, that
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    it mentions constantly over the indictment,
    WikiLeaks as an intelligence agency of the
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    people. And that mirrors the language of
    Pompeo, the current secretary of state,
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    who is trying to frame WikiLeaks as a non-
    state terrorist actor. Like the equivalent
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    of al-Qaeda. And that has huge, horrible
    implications, not only on the core
  • 26:34 - 26:39
    WikiLeaks organization, but on supporters
    even wearing a T-shirt, reading a book
  • 26:39 - 26:46
    about it. It can place you in a not so
    nice place. The important thing, that is
  • 26:46 - 26:53
    very worrying is, that more people may be
    detained and charged, before or after the
  • 26:53 - 26:57
    extradition takes place.
    Colvin: And we don't have to speculate
  • 26:57 - 27:02
    about this dragnet, of course, because it
    is already here. Already here in its
  • 27:02 - 27:08
    pattern of intimidation and petty and
    vindictiveness. Chelsea Manning, one of
  • 27:08 - 27:13
    the great heroes of our time, one month
    before Julian was expelled from the
  • 27:13 - 27:17
    Ecuadorian embassy and arrested on U.S.
    charges, just like it always said would
  • 27:17 - 27:22
    happen. One month before, Chelsea Manning
    received a subpoena to testify before a
  • 27:22 - 27:28
    grand jury in the Eastern District of
    Virginia. She refused to testify and was
  • 27:28 - 27:35
    imprisoned for contempt. She is
    currently... she's served 10 months. Back
  • 27:35 - 27:41
    in prison, she is currently being fined a
    thousand dollars for every day she spends
  • 27:41 - 27:46
    in prison, not testifying. This is what
    Chelsea said about what is happening, in a
  • 27:46 - 27:52
    statement in May: "I believe this grand
    jury seeks to undermine the integrity of
  • 27:52 - 27:56
    public discourse with the aim of punishing
    those who expose any serious, ongoing and
  • 27:56 - 28:01
    systematic abuses of power. The idea I
    hold the keys to my own cell is an absurd
  • 28:01 - 28:06
    one. As I face the prospect of suffering
    either way, due to this unnecessary and
  • 28:06 - 28:12
    punitive subpoena: I can either go to jail
    or betray my principles. The latter exists
  • 28:12 - 28:19
    as a much worse prison than the government
    can construct." In September, Jeremy
  • 28:19 - 28:24
    Hammond, coming to the end of a long
    prison sentence for his role in the
  • 28:24 - 28:30
    publication of the Go Global intelligence
    files. He received a, he was called,
  • 28:30 - 28:35
    against his will, to testify before a
    grand jury, again, in the Eastern District
  • 28:35 - 28:41
    of Virginia. Again, he refused to testify.
    Again, he's been jailed for a possible 18
  • 28:41 - 28:48
    months on contempt. Because this is what
    he had to say about it in October: "After
  • 28:48 - 28:52
    seven and a half years of paying my debt
    to society, the government seeks to punish
  • 28:52 - 28:56
    me further with its vindictive,
    politically motivated legal maneuver to
  • 28:56 - 29:01
    delay my release. I am opposed to all
    grand juries, but I am opposed to this one
  • 29:01 - 29:05
    in particular because it is a part of the
    government's ongoing war on free speech
  • 29:05 - 29:10
    journalists and whistleblowers." If this
    hadn't happened to Jeremy, he would be in
  • 29:10 - 29:15
    a halfway house by now. He would've been
    released from prison. He might have been
  • 29:15 - 29:23
    participating in this Congress. On the
    11th of April this year, the same day that
  • 29:23 - 29:28
    Julian was expelled from the Ecuadorian
    embassy and arrested and indicted by the
  • 29:28 - 29:33
    United States, just like he always said
    would happen, his friend Ola Bini was
  • 29:33 - 29:39
    arrested in Ecuador. Ola spent two months
    in an Ecuadorian prison in absolutely
  • 29:39 - 29:44
    disgusting conditions, until he was
    released by a writ of habeas corpus. Ola
  • 29:44 - 29:48
    has now been charged with charges that
    suggest that the prosecutors in Ecuador
  • 29:48 - 29:53
    don't really understand what it is, that
    security researchers do every day. Senior
  • 29:53 - 29:57
    Ecuadorian politicians, the most senior
    Ecuadorian politicians, have been on
  • 29:57 - 30:03
    television in Ecuador, saying that Ola is
    guilty before any trial date has been set.
  • 30:03 - 30:09
    Organizations like Amnesty and EFF have
    said, that Ola's prosecution is political.
  • 30:09 - 30:16
    And of course, they are quite correct.
    It's all political. Extradition is
  • 30:16 - 30:21
    political. Don't let anyone tell you
    differently. Extradition is an
  • 30:21 - 30:27
    institution, developed as a deal behind
    closed doors, done between sovereign
  • 30:27 - 30:32
    powers. It's only in the past hundred
    years or so, the parts that have been
  • 30:32 - 30:36
    transferred into courtrooms. But
    politicians still have an active role in
  • 30:36 - 30:40
    extradition proceedings, and sometimes
    extradition is used for political
  • 30:40 - 30:47
    purposes. Extradition in the UK is also
    very political. What is it that every taxi
  • 30:47 - 30:50
    driver in London could tell you about
    extradition? if you don't believe me,
  • 30:50 - 30:54
    you're welcome to test this out
    empirically, next time you're in town.
  • 30:54 - 30:59
    What is it they'll tell you? They will
    tell you that the UK has an unfair,
  • 30:59 - 31:06
    unequal, unbalanced, inequitable extradition
    treaty with the United States. This treaty
  • 31:06 - 31:10
    dates from 2002, when Tony Blair was keen
    to give the United States everything it
  • 31:10 - 31:18
    could possibly want and more. One of the
    gentlemen pictured in this slide is Gary
  • 31:18 - 31:24
    McKinnon. Very shortly after the 2002
    extradition treaty came into force, Gary
  • 31:24 - 31:29
    McKinnon started a 10 year battle not to
    be extradited to the United States on
  • 31:29 - 31:34
    hacking charges. He prevailed, in the end,
    but only after he'd been through the
  • 31:34 - 31:43
    entire legal process twice. And he was
    rescued, eventually, by the say so of a UK
  • 31:43 - 31:47
    home secretary. The other gentleman on
    that slide is Lowry Love. In February last
  • 31:47 - 31:53
    year, Larry won his battle against
    extradition to the United States, again on
  • 31:53 - 31:59
    hacking charges, at appeal in the high
    court. I was involved in that campaign.
  • 31:59 - 32:03
    I'm glad he won. I'm glad he won, because
    it means we have a hope of saving Julian.
  • 32:03 - 32:09
    He'd be in trouble if he hadn't. Larry won
    on two different bases. One of them is
  • 32:09 - 32:13
    very relevant. One of the reasons why
    Lowry won his battle against extradition
  • 32:13 - 32:18
    is, because judges in the high court,
    including the most senior judge in England
  • 32:18 - 32:24
    and Wales, ruled that U.S. prisons are so
    bad, the conditions are so barbaric, so
  • 32:24 - 32:28
    medieval, that somebody with preexisting
    health conditions like Lowry, there was no
  • 32:28 - 32:33
    guarantee he'd stay alive in a US prison.
    You might be hearing more about that in
  • 32:33 - 32:42
    February next year. But there are other
    big, big issues involved in Julian
  • 32:42 - 32:47
    Assange's extradition case. Big, big
    issues that don't necessarily involve him
  • 32:47 - 32:54
    that much at all. The first clip on that
    slide is a part of Jon Stewart Mill's
  • 32:54 - 32:58
    autobiography. John Stuart Mill, liberal
    philosopher, and also a British politician,
  • 32:58 - 33:06
    for a bit. And in this extract, he's
    talking about how he battled to change an
  • 33:06 - 33:12
    earlier incarnation of a UK extradition
    treaty because he didn't want the British
  • 33:12 - 33:16
    government to become, quote, "an
    accomplice in the vengeance of foreign
  • 33:16 - 33:21
    despotisms". Extradition should not be
    used as a political tool for foreign
  • 33:21 - 33:27
    governments to pursue and punish people it
    doesn't like. People who are guilty of
  • 33:27 - 33:34
    political offenses. It's a fundamental
    question of sovereignty. If you were at
  • 33:34 - 33:38
    Andy Müller-Maguhn's excellent talk
    yesterday morning, you will have heard
  • 33:38 - 33:43
    about the pervasive, thoroughgoing and
    quite frightening surveillance that was
  • 33:43 - 33:47
    happening at the at Ecuadorian embassy for
    the seven years that Julian Assange was
  • 33:47 - 33:54
    living there. This raises a fundamental
    issue: If your every legal conference, all
  • 33:54 - 33:59
    of your discussions with your lawyers are
    being surveilled and allegedly passed
  • 33:59 - 34:02
    straight to the power that's trying to
    prosecute you, if all of your legal
  • 34:02 - 34:06
    documents are handed over, allegedly -
    well, actually, we know that - to the
  • 34:06 - 34:10
    power that's trying to prosecute you. What
    does that mean for your chances of a fair
  • 34:10 - 34:15
    trial? If you care about surveillance at
    all, we're going to have to make a stand
  • 34:15 - 34:19
    in this very extreme case, because if we
    don't, how are we ever going to stand up
  • 34:19 - 34:27
    for fair trial rights for anyone?
    Richter: Yes. And before I go further in
  • 34:27 - 34:31
    our topic, I just want to say that I have
    personal experience with the surveillance
  • 34:31 - 34:38
    happening in the embassy, because I used
    to visit Julian many, many times, maybe 30
  • 34:38 - 34:43
    times from the moment he entered the
    embassy till the last time I saw him is
  • 34:43 - 34:48
    nearly exactly a year ago. It was around
    Christmas last year. And at that point, I
  • 34:48 - 34:55
    mean, I really could see the eroding
    conditions that he lived in. I mean, just
  • 34:55 - 34:59
    to see a person that didn't see the
    sunlight for 7 years or something was
  • 34:59 - 35:07
    terrible enough. But then the last year
    when he lived quasi in isolation, had no
  • 35:07 - 35:13
    access to phone or to internet, nothing,
    because that was the way that he had
  • 35:13 - 35:18
    contact with the world and had no visitors
    anymore for nearly a year, I think,
  • 35:18 - 35:27
    because we the people that visited him, we
    were kind of his door to the world. And it
  • 35:27 - 35:32
    was for me, very, very, very weird to be
    surveilled all the time when I was there.
  • 35:32 - 35:39
    Sometimes I spend five hours at least
    there. And after a while, you just feel
  • 35:39 - 35:43
    very uncomfortable. I was so happy when I
    could leave that building, actually.
  • 35:43 - 35:48
    Especially in the last two years. And then
    I could not imagine staying there like him
  • 35:48 - 35:53
    having no private moment. I mean, in the
    end, they even put cameras in the
  • 35:53 - 35:59
    bathrooms and and the toilets and so on. I
    know there was this tiny kitchen,
  • 35:59 - 36:02
    sometimes we used to hide from the cameras
    to just have a moment of just talking
  • 36:02 - 36:09
    without feeling surveilled. And then he
    had also this little apparatus, I think
  • 36:09 - 36:15
    Andy was talking about it yesterday in his
    talk, that was causing white noise. And I
  • 36:15 - 36:20
    was really annoyed, to be honest, by this
    little thing. And I was always, I was also
  • 36:20 - 36:25
    thinking about, my God, maybe he is too
    paranoid, you know. Because the weird
  • 36:25 - 36:29
    thing is you get used to everything, and
    somehow, like us now being surveilled all
  • 36:29 - 36:34
    the time through our phones and laptops
    and so on, and we get used to it. But he
  • 36:34 - 36:39
    always insisted, even when we were talking
    like banal stuff about, I don't know, a
  • 36:39 - 36:46
    soccer game or something, the little sound
    machine was on causing white noise. And
  • 36:46 - 36:50
    not only it caused disturbance for the
    surveillors, it also caused headaches in
  • 36:50 - 36:57
    my head. And so, yeah, it's actually a
    very sad story. And for me, it was to see
  • 36:57 - 37:01
    the process, when especially after the
    government, the conservative government
  • 37:01 - 37:07
    came into power in Ecuador, his status
    very much changed. And so he became more
  • 37:07 - 37:12
    and more something I would describe as a
    prisoner and not someone who has asylum.
  • 37:12 - 37:19
    Okay. This is on my personal note, how I
    experienced it. And the other thing is, on
  • 37:19 - 37:25
    this picture you see one of the first
    protests that we did in Berlin, it was
  • 37:25 - 37:33
    this year in May. It was a little after he
    was dragged out of the embassy. And we
  • 37:33 - 37:40
    were there with some people, including
    Srećko Horvat, Croatian philosopher. And
  • 37:40 - 37:44
    as you see on the picture also Ai Weiwei,
    the Chinese artist and human rights
  • 37:44 - 37:53
    advocate, who also openly supported
    Assange always, and also not afraid of
  • 37:53 - 37:59
    consequences, actually. And he
    also visited him in prison. And what is
  • 37:59 - 38:04
    also an interesting fact, that Ai Weiwei
    also made the connection between the
  • 38:04 - 38:12
    protests against the extradition law in
    Hong Kong. And he connected with this very
  • 38:12 - 38:17
    controversial extradition case of Julian
    in the UK at the moment. So for me, it's
  • 38:17 - 38:22
    sometimes something I could never believe
    in, former times that I will be in a
  • 38:22 - 38:27
    situation where we in the West, who are
    the good ones and the free West, the so-
  • 38:27 - 38:34
    called free West is somehow actually in
    the top 10 of having dissidents in
  • 38:34 - 38:42
    prisons, including the ones that we just
    named, and that no human rights seem to be
  • 38:42 - 38:48
    valuable anymore. And I find this very
    concerning, I must say, also on a private
  • 38:48 - 39:00
    level. Yes. And I was there, too, as you
    see in the photograph. And before I went
  • 39:00 - 39:07
    to the protest I was in Moscow, and I
    visited Edward Snowden, because I also
  • 39:07 - 39:12
    worked with him together. He helped me a
    lot on the place I did. And this was the
  • 39:12 - 39:17
    third time, actually, that I visited him.
    And we also talked about Julian's case,
  • 39:17 - 39:23
    and he gave me a letter of support that I
    was reading out loud on this protest. And
  • 39:23 - 39:28
    I will just read a little bit of it, that
    you can see now: "By the government's own
  • 39:28 - 39:32
    admission, Assange has been charged for
    his role in bringing to light true
  • 39:32 - 39:38
    information. Information that exposed war
    crimes and wrongdoing perpetrated by the
  • 39:38 - 39:44
    most powerful military in the history of
    the world. It is not just a man who stands
  • 39:44 - 39:51
    in jeopardy, but the future of the free
    press." Yes, and I think that he is very
  • 39:51 - 40:02
    much right in this case, because what does
    it mean? I mean, for me, I'm also in the
  • 40:02 - 40:08
    meantime, working as a journalist for Der
    Freitag, I published a few of the articles
  • 40:08 - 40:15
    about him and Snowden, and basically about
    whistleblowing and these things. And if he
  • 40:15 - 40:22
    can - if publishing becomes a crime,
    telling the truth becomes a crime. And if
  • 40:22 - 40:29
    you are not able to work with sources, to
    protect sources and to actively also try
  • 40:29 - 40:39
    to obtain material about truth. And
    because we live in a democracy where the
  • 40:39 - 40:44
    powers have to be shared and to have a
    balance of power, because as we know, when
  • 40:44 - 40:54
    power gets into a monopoly, it will always
    be abused. And so...
  • 40:54 - 40:59
    mumbling
    I will cut it short. It has bad
  • 40:59 - 41:03
    implications for journalists. And if this
    happens to Julian, it is a threat not only
  • 41:03 - 41:10
    to journalism, but to democracy itself.
    Avila: So we will accelerate, because all
  • 41:10 - 41:15
    the what comes next is very, very
    important. And yes, we saw immediately
  • 41:15 - 41:23
    after the arrest of Julian the situation
    going really badly in Australia. But what
  • 41:23 - 41:28
    I wanted to discuss, we wanted to discuss
    with you tonight, this is about you, about
  • 41:28 - 41:36
    someone just like you. You can see, I
    mean, I guess I can see you there. I can
  • 41:36 - 41:40
    see you in these pictures and I can see
    lots of similarities. You belong to the
  • 41:40 - 41:47
    same species, basically. He was a single
    father. He was prosecuted at a very, very
  • 41:47 - 41:53
    young age. Spent five years of his 20s
    fighting a legal process. But he was all
  • 41:53 - 41:58
    the time with his computer. I cannot, I
    really cannot imagine how his life was
  • 41:58 - 42:03
    since April, away from his computer. Can
    you imagine your life away from your
  • 42:03 - 42:08
    computer even for one day? Imagine since
    April, he has been away from his computer
  • 42:08 - 42:16
    and only having one hour a day outside a
    prison cell. And so while he was raising
  • 42:16 - 42:23
    up a kid as a single parent, and while he
    was dealing with a hacking legal process,
  • 42:23 - 42:29
    he also was actively working for our
    communities. He was co-running one of the
  • 42:29 - 42:34
    first public access Internet providers in
    Australia. He was always involved and
  • 42:34 - 42:41
    dedicated thousands of hours to the free
    software movement. His code was even used
  • 42:41 - 42:48
    by Apple and other operating system. So
    chances are that today, even today, our
  • 42:48 - 42:54
    computers, our Apple devices - for the bad
    people who uses Apple like me - Ironic
  • 42:54 - 43:02
    part of his code. He was also from very
    early time trying to find ways for
  • 43:02 - 43:09
    vulnerable groups such as human rights
    defenders, ways to encrypt their devices.
  • 43:09 - 43:14
    And so he was very active before
    WikiLeaks. WikiLeaks just was an upgrade,
  • 43:14 - 43:20
    kind of, on his plans. And I also want
    to mention that the CCC is mentioned,
  • 43:20 - 43:28
    expressly mentioned, in that part of the
    indictment against Julian. So what happens
  • 43:28 - 43:37
    here, you know, it matters there. I think
    that the sole fact that the community is
  • 43:37 - 43:42
    mentioned on an indictment against a
    journalist is enough reason to stand up
  • 43:42 - 43:47
    and say something about it and organize
    around it. But it is not only the
  • 43:47 - 43:54
    community name on the indictment, and the
    criminal complaint is also our
  • 43:54 - 44:01
    communication practices. Raise your hand
    if you have a Jabber account. So, yes, the
  • 44:01 - 44:05
    Jabber server, the CCC server, is
    mentioned in the criminal complaint
  • 44:05 - 44:11
    against Julian.
    Colvin: Well, yeah, I mean, but what's
  • 44:11 - 44:18
    even more worrying is - oh, the microphone
    - What's there is worrying, but what's
  • 44:18 - 44:23
    even more worrying is that it's a moving
    target. Things are still continuing. This
  • 44:23 - 44:28
    is part of a submission the US government
    made in Chelsea Manning's ongoing
  • 44:28 - 44:33
    procedures talk about an ongoing
    investigation. There's more to come. And
  • 44:33 - 44:41
    it's even more bad omens. microphone noise Like that one.
    Even more bad omens from from across the
  • 44:41 - 44:48
    water in unrelated cases and will
    prosecutorial series that are being put
  • 44:48 - 44:53
    together, which are very disturbing and
    augur for very bad things to come. I can't
  • 44:53 - 44:57
    talk about that now, but it's an excellent
    issue for the Q and A. What happens next?
  • 44:57 - 45:01
    Well, immediately what's going to happen
    next is that on the 24th of February, for
  • 45:01 - 45:06
    three or four weeks, Julian Assange will
    have his extradition hearing. To give you
  • 45:06 - 45:10
    an indication of the size and scale of
    this case, Larry loves extradition
  • 45:10 - 45:14
    hearing, which was quite a big deal and
    quite big. Took two and a half days.
  • 45:14 - 45:19
    Julian's is going to be three or four
    weeks. It will take place in Belmarsh
  • 45:19 - 45:24
    Magistrates Court in a horrible part of
    south east London, near the prison. It
  • 45:24 - 45:27
    will probably take place in the courthouse
    next door. They've got bigger courts, but
  • 45:27 - 45:35
    it will be in that place in London.
    Richter: So what can you do? OK. Do not be
  • 45:35 - 45:41
    afraid to speak up, speak with people and
    so on. And don't be afraid. We still live
  • 45:41 - 45:46
    in a free country. Immunize yourself
    against propaganda, which is really
  • 45:46 - 45:51
    something that you should be beware. That
    happened massively in the case of Julian.
  • 45:51 - 45:56
    I think you know what I mean. And
    understand what is at stake. This is a
  • 45:56 - 46:02
    political persecution and it's about
    everyone. And I want to quote Nils Melzer,
  • 46:02 - 46:08
    the U.N. special rapporteur on torture,
    who I met recently and this is a very
  • 46:08 - 46:13
    famous quote of him, that he was
    continuously actually saying to people in
  • 46:13 - 46:18
    power. "Assange has been systematically
    slandered to divert attention, attention
  • 46:18 - 46:24
    from the crimes, crimes he exposed once he
    had been dehumanized through isolation,
  • 46:24 - 46:30
    ridicule and shame. Just like the witches
    we used to burn at the stake. It was easy
  • 46:30 - 46:34
    to deprive him of his most fundamental
    rights and without provoking public
  • 46:34 - 46:40
    outrage worldwide." And I think this is
    exactly what happened to him.
  • 46:40 - 46:43
    Avila: And this is a picture of really
    courageous journalists from all over the
  • 46:43 - 46:49
    world who stand up and say, like, stop
    this prosecution. And they are a community
  • 46:49 - 46:56
    Julian belongs to. But I have seen very
    few real statements from this community.
  • 46:56 - 47:01
    So our request tonight will be like,
    please try to organize and try to do a
  • 47:01 - 47:06
    similar effort that matters a lot. Now, we
    will explain why.
  • 47:06 - 47:10
    Colvin: It's really important, because no
    man is an island and the UK is not an
  • 47:10 - 47:14
    island. Even after Brexit, right? The UK
    government does care about its
  • 47:14 - 47:18
    international reputation, maybe unlike the
    US. And the UK government needs to know
  • 47:18 - 47:23
    that the world is watching. The world is
    watching, they are hosting entirely
  • 47:23 - 47:30
    unnecessarily, the most ridiculous, the
    most important press freedom truck case of
  • 47:30 - 47:33
    a generation, completely unnecessarily.
    They need to know that we're keeping a
  • 47:33 - 47:37
    careful eye on it. Over the past few
    months, we've been putting a lot of effort
  • 47:37 - 47:42
    into ensuring that the extradition
    hearing, the trial, if you like, in
  • 47:42 - 47:46
    February is properly monitored. We have 25
    elected parliamentarians and 12 European
  • 47:46 - 47:50
    countries who have committed to be being
    part of those monitoring efforts.
  • 47:50 - 47:55
    Reporters sans Frontières are going to are
    going to monitor. We have a whole group of
  • 47:55 - 47:59
    medics who are going to monitor the
    extradition proceedings. And I think it
  • 47:59 - 48:02
    would be good to have a similar effort
    from this community, too, frankly.
  • 48:02 - 48:07
    Avila: Especially because there are many
    technical issues being discussed. Your
  • 48:07 - 48:12
    opinion really matters for this trial, you
    know. And he can't do it. He cannot do it
  • 48:12 - 48:16
    from prison. He counts on you to help
    lawyers, to help the press, to help
  • 48:16 - 48:22
    everyone understand what is and what
    isn't online publishing and online
  • 48:22 - 48:27
    journalism. 21st Century journalism is at
    stake on this case.
  • 48:27 - 48:31
    Colvin: And your voice really matters
    here. It really does. Yes.
  • 48:31 - 48:37
    Avila: And, you know, he's our friend. And
    it's not only someone we support, but he's
  • 48:37 - 48:42
    our friend. And he likes to have the final
    word, always. So we can now bring,
  • 48:42 - 48:49
    bringing him back from the - eleven years
    ago from a Congress like this one, to have
  • 48:49 - 48:56
    the final word.
    video sound fails
  • 48:56 - 49:10
    Voice from the off: Oh, oh, oh. Hey, CIA?
    Yeah. No, it's only a glitch. He's going
  • 49:10 - 49:23
    to be frustrated, really angry. laughs
    Richter: Try again?
  • 49:23 - 49:29
    Avila: Is it ok?
    Richter: Should we try?
  • 49:29 - 49:34
    Avila: If not, we can... In the meantime,
    we can read it out, we can read it out,
  • 49:34 - 49:42
    so...
    Colvin: "Justice doesn't just happen.
  • 49:42 - 49:46
    Justice is forced by people coming
    together and exercising strength, unity
  • 49:46 - 49:53
    and intelligence." That's Julian at 25C3.
  • 49:53 - 50:10
    applause
  • 50:10 - 50:12
    Avila: Shall we try?
    Richter: Should we try?
  • 50:12 - 50:18
    Avila: Let's try one last time. No. Oh, my
    God, silence.
  • 50:18 - 50:22
    Colvin: He'll be annoyed by that. He would
    be very annoyed. He's going to be really
  • 50:22 - 50:25
    angry about that. All right.
    Avila: Please do not tell him.
  • 50:25 - 50:28
    Colvin: Yeah. Yeah, don't tell him. If you
    don't tell him, he won't know.
  • 50:28 - 50:31
    Avila: Yeah. So we are ready for some
    questions. I think that we have very
  • 50:31 - 50:36
    little time, but if we don't have enough
    time, we will be hanging out that the
  • 50:36 - 50:42
    teahouse and you can come to us and ask
    questions and how to help.
  • 50:42 - 50:45
    Herald Angel: Thank you so much.
  • 50:45 - 50:54
    applause
  • 50:54 - 51:01
    It was very insightful, moving and
    incredibly important. So I remind everyone
  • 51:01 - 51:07
    that we have six microphones. If you have
    questions, line up behind them. And also
  • 51:07 - 51:13
    our wonderful signal angels are going to
    take some questions from the internet, one
  • 51:13 - 51:20
    of which we're going to answer right now.
    Signal Angel: Ok, there was the question
  • 51:20 - 51:24
    that: Which reasons could there be to
    explain the lack of fair and well balanced
  • 51:24 - 51:31
    media reports in the Assange case?
    Colvin: What are the reasons for the lack
  • 51:31 - 51:44
    of support of media coverage? OK.
    Avila: You want to answer that?
  • 51:44 - 51:49
    Richter: You start and I will also help.
    Mumbling
  • 51:49 - 51:54
    Avila: Very quickly I will say that,
    going back to this slide on who he
  • 51:54 - 51:59
    exposed: the most powerful people. If
    you have the most powerful people, like,
  • 51:59 - 52:06
    in the world, private sector, public
    sector, even hidden sector against you and
  • 52:06 - 52:14
    with unlimited resources to take you down,
    it's quite easy to kill positive stories. It
  • 52:14 - 52:19
    is really hard in times that journalism is
    on the resource and that the courageous
  • 52:19 - 52:24
    journalists are not, like, really
    rewarded. It is really difficult
  • 52:24 - 52:29
    to navigate that ecosystem.
    Richter: Yes. And I want to add that also
  • 52:29 - 52:34
    there is a reason. I think if journalism
    today would be - do a proper job of
  • 52:34 - 52:40
    investigating and exposing the powerful,
    that it would not be necessary that
  • 52:40 - 52:46
    WikiLeaks even exists. I think if they
    would do their job as the fourth, so-
  • 52:46 - 52:53
    called fourth estate in democracy, then
    something like WikiLeaks wouldn't even be
  • 52:53 - 52:59
    there. And I think that might be a reason
    that I think that the - he not only
  • 52:59 - 53:02
    exposed the powerful, but he also a
    little bit exposed, of course, his
  • 53:02 - 53:06
    colleagues at the so-called established
    press. And I think that every
  • 53:06 - 53:11
    reason that he gave, and there were some
    because he's not perfect, Julian Assange
  • 53:11 - 53:17
    is only human, and he did make mistakes
    like everybody of us. And I could say, OK,
  • 53:17 - 53:22
    take the first stone and throw it. But I
    think that, of course, bad news is always
  • 53:22 - 53:28
    good news. And let's say many people who
    knew him said, let's say, negative things
  • 53:28 - 53:33
    that the press picked up. But, like, when
    I would say to press - or I also know
  • 53:33 - 53:37
    him, I think he's a decent guy. Nobody
    wants to report that because it's boring
  • 53:37 - 53:40
    and not interesting. So, yeah. There are
    many reasons for that, I think.
  • 53:40 - 53:42
    Colvin: I'm going to add that, I mean, the
    fact that there are 10 years of history
  • 53:42 - 53:46
    here definitely makes a difference. But
    look, I speak to a lot of journalists and
  • 53:46 - 53:52
    I speak to a lot of journalists about this
    case in the UK and particularly as it's
  • 53:52 - 53:58
    become more obvious that Julian is not
    doing very well, that he's very unwell. I
  • 53:58 - 54:02
    think people are shocked. And I can you
    know. People are frightened about it. They
  • 54:02 - 54:07
    might not be talking about it very much at
    the moment, but they will. It is what is
  • 54:07 - 54:10
    changing around for sure.
    Richter: Yes. And then, speaking of being
  • 54:10 - 54:13
    frightened, also, don't underestimate that
    people might be afraid.
  • 54:13 - 54:18
    Avila: And also, I know that there are
    many journalists here tonight. This is
  • 54:18 - 54:23
    your opportunity to change the narrative
    because you are next if you stay silent.
  • 54:23 - 54:30
    Herald: Thank you. We're going to take the
    next question from a man who's wearing a
  • 54:30 - 54:36
    Julian Assange mask. Gathering worth the
    effort and microphone 2 please.
  • 54:36 - 54:42
    M2: Oh, hi. I want to thank you so
    much for your talk. When we are all facing
  • 54:42 - 54:48
    this situation of asking ourselves what we
    can do, we should take inspiration from
  • 54:48 - 54:54
    what you just said and what you just did.
    It is not just about Julian. It is about
  • 54:54 - 54:58
    every one of us here.
    Herald: This is wonderful, but that is not
  • 54:58 - 55:00
    a question.
    M2: No, but I'm getting there.
  • 55:00 - 55:05
    Herald: Can you get there faster?
    M2: It's about historical perspective on
  • 55:05 - 55:10
    all these aspects about war, about power,
    about what we can do, about what the
  • 55:10 - 55:16
    internet is about to question power. It is
    about also maybe admitting -
  • 55:16 - 55:21
    Herald: Maybe much faster?
    M2: much faster. It is not perfect. You may
  • 55:21 - 55:26
    have said stupid things on Twitter like we
    all did. And like anyone would do after
  • 55:26 - 55:31
    seven years in detention.
    Yet he's one of us. So when asking
  • 55:31 - 55:35
    ourselves what to do. It's a modest
    contribution from the internet. There is a
  • 55:35 - 55:39
    wiki that is online for a few days now on
    these stickers that you
  • 55:39 - 55:47
    Herald: okay. We're going to take an
    actual question. I am really sorry, but.
  • 55:47 - 55:52
    Microphone 1, please. applause
    Richter: Okay, still thank you.
  • 55:52 - 55:59
    M1: I thank you for the inspiring talk, so
    I am a Pakistani journalist I now live in
  • 55:59 - 56:06
    exile in Berlin. But what the story of
    Assange and what we just saw this. You
  • 56:06 - 56:09
    know, everything that happened and the
    perpetrators that even put the
  • 56:09 - 56:15
    authoritarian regimes and their leaders in
    shame, especially how the system of asylum
  • 56:15 - 56:20
    has been breached. That also scares me. I
    have actually called because I'm scared.
  • 56:20 - 56:24
    But my question is, could you as
    journalists maybe shed some light on the
  • 56:24 - 56:27
    on the chilling effect for journalists? I
    mean, I can only imagine that there might
  • 56:27 - 56:32
    be more leaks in line that would have
    happened, but maybe has not happened
  • 56:32 - 56:37
    because the journalists are also now self
    censoring. So what would you advise to
  • 56:37 - 56:43
    such journalists? Thank you.
    Richter: Well, that is is really exactly a
  • 56:43 - 56:48
    very tough question. And this is exactly
    one of the dangers that we are pointing to
  • 56:48 - 56:53
    you know, that people might just not
    expose it. And like I said, people are
  • 56:53 - 56:59
    starting to get afraid. What can we say to
    them? Well, ...
  • 56:59 - 57:01
    Avila: I have something
  • 57:01 - 57:05
    and I think that Julian has something to
    say, this is endless with justice, with as
  • 57:05 - 57:10
    a community, with strength, unity and
    indulgence. I mean, look at the talent in
  • 57:10 - 57:18
    this room. Look, it's not necessarily just
    the brilliance of one whistleblower or one
  • 57:18 - 57:24
    person. It's the ecosystem that we need to
    create to create resilient media. And we
  • 57:24 - 57:30
    need a resilient media for democracy to
    work. And if it cannot happen, even here
  • 57:30 - 57:34
    in Germany, with all the resources and
    with all the brilliant minds, where is it
  • 57:34 - 57:39
    going to happen? So I think that we cannot
    stop innovating and we need to push for
  • 57:39 - 57:48
    the next wave of innovations for the
    journalism that we've served these needs
  • 57:48 - 57:53
    in our times. And that's why this case
    matters a lot, because it's punishing
  • 57:53 - 57:57
    these innovations that these two
    redistributed power among people. Yeah.
  • 57:57 - 58:01
    There also needs to be a recognition. A
    bit of solidarity is necessary here,
  • 58:01 - 58:06
    because this isn't just about Julian. As
    Renata mentioned briefly, things in
  • 58:06 - 58:10
    Australia have gone to pop since Julian
    was arrested. And more than that, one of
  • 58:10 - 58:15
    the slides I flicked over was the
    indictment of a drone with alleged drone
  • 58:15 - 58:20
    whistleblower, Daniel Hale. In Daniel Hale
    the count - one of Daniel Hale's
  • 58:20 - 58:24
    indictment accuses him of unlawfully
    releasing information. About unlawfully
  • 58:24 - 58:29
    releasing information to a journalist who
    he knew would have used it unlawfully. So
  • 58:29 - 58:34
    this is like the second time in a US
    indictment we have an accusation of a
  • 58:34 - 58:40
    publisher, a journalist acting unlawfully
    by publishing true information in the
  • 58:40 - 58:46
    public interest. We need to be aware and
    we need to raise the alarm, because this
  • 58:46 - 58:51
    isn't just about Julian. The threat is
    very real and it's very broad.
  • 58:51 - 59:01
    Herald: Thank you. We have time for one
    last question and we're going to ask our
  • 59:01 - 59:05
    signal angels again.
    Signal Angel: So there was the question
  • 59:05 - 59:10
    how can we help and support Manning,
    Assange and Snowden?
  • 59:10 - 59:19
    Richter: Well, like we just said also, I think
    it's very important to show solidarity in
  • 59:19 - 59:27
    different ways by raising your voice.
    Well, even supporting with donation, it's
  • 59:27 - 59:31
    always good. It's good for Manning. It's
    good for everyone. I think Courage
  • 59:31 - 59:36
    Foundation is someone who's supporting
    everyone, including Jeremy Hammond and
  • 59:36 - 59:41
    Chelsea Manning, who are not so much in
    the focus maybe like Julian, but also for
  • 59:41 - 59:47
    Julian. I think that his trial will cost -
    - my God - hundreds of thousands of
  • 59:47 - 59:54
    pounds. Let's hope that the pound
    goes down after Brexit. But, OK. No. I
  • 59:54 - 59:59
    mean, and I think speaking up and like
    Renata also said, to have the feeling that
  • 59:59 - 60:04
    we are many and I think exactly this thing
    that he said. People coming together and
  • 60:04 - 60:12
    sharing and kind of be brave like "Courage
    is contagious." is one of my favorite quotes
  • 60:12 - 60:19
    of him. And so I think I take a stand.
    Have an attitude and do as much as you can
  • 60:19 - 60:24
    in your possibilities, which which are
    not so little, I think. And I think it is
  • 60:24 - 60:29
    for the good of everyone, not only the
    names, people who are in danger now, but
  • 60:29 - 60:36
    for all of our freedom. Colvin: Resist
    practically. There's a lot to do and
  • 60:36 - 60:42
    there's a lot of work to go round or as
    we've mentioned in the talk, organizing in
  • 60:42 - 60:46
    the communities you're part of. His work
    is very important here in Germany. To take
  • 60:46 - 60:49
    an example, we've had parliamentarians
    coming forward. We've also had the
  • 60:49 - 60:53
    journalists' union. We've also had
    collections of lawyers. All of this is
  • 60:53 - 60:56
    really important. And it makes a
    difference to the work that's being done
  • 60:56 - 61:00
    in the U.K. There are lots of different
    organizations and groups doing work on
  • 61:00 - 61:05
    this case and it's all really valuable.
    Contribute as you will, find a group that
  • 61:05 - 61:08
    you think is doing is doing good work.
    Either work that you think will make a
  • 61:08 - 61:14
    difference or that accords with your own
    ideological perspective and support them.
  • 61:14 - 61:21
    There's a lot of people doing good work
    here. I know one of the saving graces of
  • 61:21 - 61:25
    what has been quite a depressing year is
    meeting so many people who were doing
  • 61:25 - 61:30
    important work on this most dire of
    issues. Avila: And we have a lot of faith on you
  • 61:30 - 61:36
    as a community, to be honest. We count on
    you and this community do not leave behind
  • 61:36 - 61:42
    people belonging here. And I think that if
    we can see - I think that Julian will be
  • 61:42 - 61:47
    like incredibly thrilled and Chelsea will
    be like super happy to know that there's
  • 61:47 - 61:52
    organized efforts to follow this case
    closely and to have delegations present
  • 61:52 - 61:58
    during the hearings. And if they know that
    you are there, even symbolically there,
  • 61:58 - 62:04
    they will feel so much better because more
    and more to any community, Snowden,
  • 62:04 - 62:11
    Chelsea, Julian really love this. Love,
    admire and count on this community. So
  • 62:11 - 62:15
    please be there, and find us later, we
    will explain the more detailed ways to
  • 62:15 - 62:20
    help. And thank you so much for attending
    this talk. Like, really, it means a lot.
  • 62:20 - 62:24
    It means a lot to have a full room. And I
    know that there's many people watching as
  • 62:24 - 62:30
    well and will watch this again. Please
    continue following this case. We will
  • 62:30 - 62:35
    prepare all the information that you need.
    But what you - we need you to activate
  • 62:35 - 62:39
    it and to translate it into action. Thank
    you so much. Thank you. Thank you.
  • 62:39 - 62:40
    applause
  • 62:40 - 62:42
    Herald: Thank you for this.
  • 62:42 - 62:45
    postroll music
  • 62:45 - 63:08
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Title:
36C3 - The Case Against WikiLeaks: a direct threat to our community
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