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Herald Angel: OK. So our next speakers are
going to talk about the charges against
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Julian Assange and WikiLeaks, which is a
topic that's very close to our hearts. I
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guess, most our hearts at least. And it's
also something that's incredibly important
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for us as a community and it's a threat
against the entire tech community,
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minorities, human rights advocates,
activists. So a lot of people you
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should really care about. And the speakers
are Renata Avila, who's the executive
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director of Fundación Ciudadanía
Inteligente. Yay!
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applause
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Renata Avila: Well done.
Herald Angel: Naomi Colvin, who is the UK
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program director at Blueprint for Free
Speech - which is much easier to
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pronounce, thank you so much -
supporting applause and speakers laughing
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Herald Angel: And Angel Richter, who's a
director and writer and artist and a lot
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of things, and she specializes on
whistleblowing and digital dissidents, and
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one of the plays, which is transmedia
play. You might know, it's called Super
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Nerds. So a round of applause for our
amazing speakers. And let's begin the talk.
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applause and cheering
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Angela Richter: Thank you very much. Good
evening, everyone, and thank you for
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coming here tonight. And thank you also
for our introduction by the moderator, a
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very charming guy, as I thought. And also
good to give a little bit lightness to
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this - for me very serious issue actually
- that we are here. Like you said, I am
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an artist. And for me, WikiLeaks was very
important. And also Julian Assange,
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because somehow they were the entrance for
me as an artist to this community that
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became very dear to me in the last 10
years. And I attended some of the
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Congresses in the last 10 years and
learned a lot about things that I never
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knew before. So I owe a lot, actually, to
WikiLeaks and also to this community,
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because it opened so many things for me
up. So, yeah, this I wanted to say first
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and then I will also show a little piece
of a recent play I did in Zagreb. It's by
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Slavoj Žižek, who is also supported by
Julian. And it is not so much... It is
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related to our topic. It's a little bit
like a mood board that we want to show
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before we start.
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Richter: And like he said, this will be
about how we can support WikiLeaks. And of
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course, Julian Assange, which is also a
very personal matter for me, because he
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became a very close friend in the last 10
years who I also owe a lot. And on the
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other hand, I think it's not only about
him and his life, which is serious enough,
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but I think that this thing that is
happening to him, that he's being charged
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with the Espionage Act - this is the first
time that something like this happens to a
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publisher - is a threat to free speech to
all of our freedom. And it means that
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actually everyone who speaks truth to
power can be kidnapped, extradited to the
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US and then end up in prison for the rest
of his life. And I think that this is -
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for this community also - a threat,
especially because we all know that we are
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trying to be secure. Secure free speech is
very important issue here. So, yeah. We
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will go into the details in the course of
this week. Thank you very much.
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video with soft, slow,
but deep orchestra music
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music gets more,
dramatic and continues
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voices of the speakers are not heard,
music continues
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applause followed by short
silence
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Renata Avila: We will try to be brief to
leave enough time for questions, because
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we think that you have a lot of questions
on this case and so we will alternate and
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discuss different issues, starting with:
What are we at now?
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Richter: Yes. On the left side, you see
Belmarsh Prison. This is the high security
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prison that Julian is housed at the
moment. And what I find very chilling
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about it,is that it's actually a place
where usually you find terrorists,
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murderers and mafia people and so on. So,
high criminals. And he is only at the
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moment being held there for extradition
reasons, which is also extreme, because he
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is 23 hours a day alone in his cell, which
is actually isolation. And then the next
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picture shows a typical room in a prison
in Virginia, where Chelsea Manning is held
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at the moment, again. And I think, it must
be something like 10 months in the
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meantime, that she is again in prison,
because she is not willing to testify
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against Julian Assange in front of a grand
jury.
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Avila: So raise your hand if you have less
than 30 years. So -
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Richter: OK. Thank you.
Avila: - that says a lot, because it means
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that probably your first encounter with
WikiLeaks was just only 5 years ago. And
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you were a teen, when many things were
happening. And we know that today is Young
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Hackers Day, so it was important for us to
quickly go through the important
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publications that WikiLeaks published in
the last decade. Why? Because there are
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many misconceptions since 2016 and a lot
of misinformation followed the election of
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Donald Trump. And so we want to show here
and it is, of course, not a detailed list.
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You can find a detailed list on WikiLeaks,
on Wikipedia - two concepts at the
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beginning were all of them mixed,
actually. And the same principles followed,
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I would say. But what I want to show here
is the most impactful publications by
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WikiLeaks, that changed the course of
history in many places and also -
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highlighted in green - their political
persecution moments. Not only against
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Julian Assange, but against other people
that were closely connected to these
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developments in the last decade. So 2008
was a very exciting year for WikiLeaks
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because I think that - even if it was
created before - was the year that it got
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mainstream. Why? Because it changed
elections in Kenya by exposing
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extrajudicial killings. And it really
changed the outcome of the election. Like
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people realized that one of the candidates
was involved in these extrajudicial
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killings of young people. And that really
impacted deeply the African nation. Not
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only that, you may have forgotten about
that, but he was the first publication of
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the batch of emails from Sarah Palin. And
also, there were lots of publications in
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Latin America. That's how I became
familiar with WikiLeaks and very excited
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about that. Petrol Gate, the biggest
scandal of corruption in Peru. And so,
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publications involving Guerillas and False
Positives in the Colombian war. It has
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started, like, from the places from
Africa, from Latin America and also the
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US. On 2009, I will say that the highlight
and why WikiLeaks became very busy, well,
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it exposed a lot of the censorship lists
out of China and Iran and other countries.
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The Internet was not what it used ... it
is not what it is today. Censorship was
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tangible. You will see a blocked website.
And now, as we will discuss later, now
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it's a different form of censorship. And
so WikiLeaks at the moment was the
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guardian of this free internet and also it
was their big moment in Iceland. And the
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big opportunity for WikiLeaks as well. In
a jurisdiction to become not only a
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publisher, but a designer of a new
ecosystem of freedom of information. So it
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exposed the corrupt involving the
financial scandal there. And it got
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really, really exciting there. Things,
like the EME initiative and all the things
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that are now part of our history. Then
2010 and then 2010 was the year when
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things started to get really complicated.
Why? Because instead of torching countries
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in the periphery or torching developing
countries. So it's OK. It's always cool to
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expose there by human rights violations of
an African or Latin American person in
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power. But when you torch the center of
power, when you torch the most powerful
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military in the world, you get into
trouble. So on 2010, Collateral Murder
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video was published, The Afghan War
Diaries, Iraq War Logs and cable gate. And
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that was the moment when Julian Assange
was arrested. It was not arrested because
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of the publications. It was just a few
days after the publication started that he
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was arrested on behalf of Sweden. And no
charges, it was not because of charges. It
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was because of ongoing investigation.
2011, the Gitmo files, spy files, the spy
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files. The first batch of publication, 160
companies involved in mass surveillance,
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private mass surveillance. That was Pre-
Snowden, remember that. And that, at that
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moment Julian only spent a little in the
same prison that he is now, only a few days.
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Then he was released on bail. But from
that moment, from the moment that he put,
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he presented himself - he surrendered
himself to the police, he never hide -
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he voluntarily went there when he was
requested. From that moment, his life
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became a hell of surveillance. He was, not
only, had a tag on his ankle following him
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everywhere, but he had the most strict
bail conditions that you can imagine. He
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could not even give a talk in London
because he will have to go back. He had
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ridiculous hours to report himself to the
police. He was watched all the time. He
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had to report to the police on a daily
basis. Someone suspected of terrorism was
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enjoying more relaxed conditions than
someone who wasn't charged. And that's a
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constant. In this case and other
politically motivated cases, you are not
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the rule, you are the exception. And
exceptionally harsh the system treats you.
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In 2012 struck for e-mails and also the
Syria files. Syria files is a publication
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that is not often mentioned, but it was
very relevant. Exposing all the dealings
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of the Syrian elites. And Julian is
granted political asylum in Ecuador. He
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could have requested political asylum much
earlier, but he wanted to go through all
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the legal process in the UK and all their
appeals. And it was his last chance to
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exercise that right. Then 2013, the TPP
text and Spy Files 2. And that was the
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moment when Manning was sentenced to 35
years in prison. As Snowden is granted
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asylum in Moscow as well. And Jeremy
Hammond is convicted and sentenced to 10
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years in prison. Jeremy Hammond is the
alleged source of the Stratford, the
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Global Intelligence Files. Then 2014 TISA,
Spy Files 3 and the updated TPP text, then
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2015, the Sony archives, the Saudi cables.
Actually, that Saudi cable publication was
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one of the most dangerous ones. You
saw what happened to journalist Jamal
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Khashoggi. I mean, it is very, very
dangerous publication and hacking team
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searchable database and the TPP final
texts. This is very important because it
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really changed the life for better of
loads of people. I personally work on
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global trade issues and the negotiators of
developing countries or representing
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under-represented communities, like, they
are so thankful to WikiLeaks for releasing
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and publishing the TPP/IP chapter because
it means better access to medicine. It got
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the people with better conditions for
negotiations in key issues such as access
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to medicines. Then 2016, I would say that
I will compare to 2010. And then you,
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again, torch the center of power.
WikiLeaks torch again the center of power
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by publishing the Clinton, Podesta and DNC
emails. And that change allowed the
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narrative and changed a lot the narrative
in a very different world because it was
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not any more tangible censorship on deck
or the clear publication. But our
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information ecosystem, as we know, had
been modified by social networks, by
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different forms of distributing and
accessing content. 2017, Obama leaves the
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administration by commuting Chelsea
Manning sentence and she's later release
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that year. And WikiLeaks publishes NSA
spying on French Election. Vault 7, which
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is their tool kit of spying of the CIA and
the spy files of Russia. 2018, Amazon
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Atlas, US embassy shopping list and their
weapon dealers details. Here is very
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important that the conditions of Julian
changed radically after 2016 at the
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Ecuadorian embassy and the pressure of the
US increased terribly. And he was not
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allowed anymore to do his job as a
journalist. He spent most of the year
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gagged, and he could not participate
activel, directly on his role
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as editor. And 2019, you saw in the video.
Assange is arrested. Manning is arrested
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again. But in spite of that, in spite of
all the pressure, WikiLeaks refuses to
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shut down and continues publishing. The
Pope orders, the Douma Chemical Attack and
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Fishrot. So as you can see, Julian has
upset and WikiLeaks has upset enough
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people from the most powerful army in the
world to the most powerful governments to
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the most powerful corporations. And so
their plans, frustrated with the TPP
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collapse, and the TTAP collapse, and TISA
collapse to even the Pope. So if you
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upset, if you expose so many people, you
have very few allies left. You have
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basically the people as your allies. So
that's why this talk is really, really,
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really important. And you have also the
media, because over the 10 years WikiLeaks
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has worked closely with most of the news
outlets all over the world. If you checked
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your newspaper tomorrow morning, it's
highly likely that it was one of the
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WikiLeaks media partners. This is just a
small sample of over 125
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media organizations all over the
world that had collaborated closely with
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WikiLeaks.
Richter: And I just want to add a very
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interesting little detail that John Goetz
told me, who was at that time - He's a
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journalist. He now works for Süddeutsche
and ARD - and at that time, he was working
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for Der Spiegel, who also worked closely
with WikiLeaks at that time, 2010. And
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they published Cable Gate. And it's
interesting to know that due to a
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technical glitch, because the deal was
that WikiLeaks publishes first and after
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that, the newspapers follow. Spiegel, New
York Times, Guardian and so on. And due to
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this glitch, WikiLeaks was not able to
publish in time. So they were too late
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with the publishing and all the newspapers
came out already. So technically they
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published first, which is very important
for the case in a way, because he's
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charged because he published it first, the
Cable Gate. And it would be interesting
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because what does it mean? It means that
actually the journalists from Spiegel and
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New York Times and Guardian could face the
same penalties. And when you imagin that,
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then I think the impact it has on
publishing becomes even more chilling and
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clear, you know. So I thought to tell you
this little detail about the publishing of
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Cable Gate.
Avila: So what happened on
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April 11 when he was expelled from the
embassy and dragged out is something that
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goes beyond just Julian Assange. As a
human rights lawyer, do you know when I
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see political unrest, when I see people,
dissidents at risk, I always tell them
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have a good relationship with a friendly
embassy, that defends human rights and in
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case of trouble, get there, get inside an
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embassy. It is happening now with
dissidents in Bolivia, for example, who
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are like right now at the embassy, in the
embassy in Mexico. And we advise any of
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you do that. But now with caution, because
now, since the violation and since this
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really brutal way that asylum was taken
away from an illegal way, that asylum was
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taken away from Julian and the way that
police from a different country enters an
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embassy, asylum has been weakened forever
until we reverse this. That's why this is
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yet another reason why this case is very
important. Right now, you know, even the
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government of Bolivia is threatening the
Mexican embassy to get inside and take out
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the dissidents seeking asylum inside the
embassy. It is really upsetting to see how
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an institution has over 400 years that was
designed to protect dissidents is being
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dismantled by this scandalous case. And
well, when he was out, it happened what we
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had predicted for years. For years we have
been saying at the moment when his arrest
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that they will unseal an indictment for
espionage. And everyone will look at us
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like back in 2010 and 2011, say, look,
you're paranoid. There is no way that the
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US is going to prosecute Julian. He's just
hiding from Swedish charges that were
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saying. Always charges, even there were
never charges. And he is a coward and he's
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a paranoid. And this is not going to
happen. It happened immediately, and it
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happened immediately. And just as
predicted, it was so upsetting to see the
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result of the Swedish investigation,
because not only, over there, I mean,
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there was a good journalist doing her job
and she discovered over the years
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different irregularities. Sweden wanted to
shut down the case back in 2013, after the
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asylum was granted. An obstacle... it was
a collusion. And it's really good... if
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you like documents and you like deep
research, get into the documents that are
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already available and see how the UK
system put a lot of pressure on Sweden,
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not to prosecute this case as they usually
prosecute any case. Things as simple as a
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videoconference could have been taking
place back in 2010, back on August,
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September 2010. And it didn't happen
because of a lot of political pressure.
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So, now the charges. There are 18 charges
against Julian Assange and they might be
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charges against more people who were
mentioned in the indictment. The charges,
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that he's facing for publishing, amount
to 175 years in prison. And to make your
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life simpler, basically the charges
are: online publishing, protecting
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sources and doing journalism. If you read
what it is about, it's really chilling and
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is especially chilling because look at
who's in charge now. Right now all over
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the world. And it is the first time that
the Justice Department gets away with it.
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It is using that very anachronic law to
obtain an indictment from a grand jury,
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that is from a group of people who thinks
that it is okay to prosecute under
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Espionage Act charges, online publication.
If you get a takeaway from tonight: This
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is the takeaway. This is the serious thing
that we are discussing right now. And the
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thing is, this is important, because at
the center of this is our right to know.
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The right to publish it on our site, is
our right to know. Three relevant aspects
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of the charges. You will read a lot of:
"Oooh, but WikiLeaks and Julian had blood
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on his hands." "It risked informants and
put at risk." These charges have
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nothing to do with this risk assessment.
That will not be even known by the court.
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These redactions and these measures of
protection, that, over another in media,
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not relevant for their espionage charges.
And it is also important to notice, that
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it mentions constantly over the indictment,
WikiLeaks as an intelligence agency of the
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people. And that mirrors the language of
Pompeo, the current secretary of state,
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who is trying to frame WikiLeaks as a non-
state terrorist actor. Like the equivalent
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of al-Qaeda. And that has huge, horrible
implications, not only on the core
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WikiLeaks organization, but on supporters
even wearing a T-shirt, reading a book
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about it. It can place you in a not so
nice place. The important thing, that is
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very worrying is, that more people may be
detained and charged, before or after the
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extradition takes place.
Colvin: And we don't have to speculate
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about this dragnet, of course, because it
is already here. Already here in its
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pattern of intimidation and petty and
vindictiveness. Chelsea Manning, one of
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the great heroes of our time, one month
before Julian was expelled from the
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Ecuadorian embassy and arrested on U.S.
charges, just like it always said would
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happen. One month before, Chelsea Manning
received a subpoena to testify before a
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grand jury in the Eastern District of
Virginia. She refused to testify and was
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imprisoned for contempt. She is
currently... she's served 10 months. Back
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in prison, she is currently being fined a
thousand dollars for every day she spends
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in prison, not testifying. This is what
Chelsea said about what is happening, in a
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statement in May: "I believe this grand
jury seeks to undermine the integrity of
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public discourse with the aim of punishing
those who expose any serious, ongoing and
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systematic abuses of power. The idea I
hold the keys to my own cell is an absurd
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one. As I face the prospect of suffering
either way, due to this unnecessary and
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punitive subpoena: I can either go to jail
or betray my principles. The latter exists
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as a much worse prison than the government
can construct." In September, Jeremy
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Hammond, coming to the end of a long
prison sentence for his role in the
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publication of the Go Global intelligence
files. He received a, he was called,
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against his will, to testify before a
grand jury, again, in the Eastern District
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of Virginia. Again, he refused to testify.
Again, he's been jailed for a possible 18
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months on contempt. Because this is what
he had to say about it in October: "After
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seven and a half years of paying my debt
to society, the government seeks to punish
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me further with its vindictive,
politically motivated legal maneuver to
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delay my release. I am opposed to all
grand juries, but I am opposed to this one
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in particular because it is a part of the
government's ongoing war on free speech
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journalists and whistleblowers." If this
hadn't happened to Jeremy, he would be in
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a halfway house by now. He would've been
released from prison. He might have been
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participating in this Congress. On the
11th of April this year, the same day that
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Julian was expelled from the Ecuadorian
embassy and arrested and indicted by the
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United States, just like he always said
would happen, his friend Ola Bini was
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arrested in Ecuador. Ola spent two months
in an Ecuadorian prison in absolutely
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disgusting conditions, until he was
released by a writ of habeas corpus. Ola
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has now been charged with charges that
suggest that the prosecutors in Ecuador
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don't really understand what it is, that
security researchers do every day. Senior
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Ecuadorian politicians, the most senior
Ecuadorian politicians, have been on
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television in Ecuador, saying that Ola is
guilty before any trial date has been set.
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Organizations like Amnesty and EFF have
said, that Ola's prosecution is political.
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And of course, they are quite correct.
It's all political. Extradition is
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political. Don't let anyone tell you
differently. Extradition is an
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institution, developed as a deal behind
closed doors, done between sovereign
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powers. It's only in the past hundred
years or so, the parts that have been
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transferred into courtrooms. But
politicians still have an active role in
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extradition proceedings, and sometimes
extradition is used for political
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purposes. Extradition in the UK is also
very political. What is it that every taxi
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driver in London could tell you about
extradition? if you don't believe me,
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you're welcome to test this out
empirically, next time you're in town.
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What is it they'll tell you? They will
tell you that the UK has an unfair,
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unequal, unbalanced, inequitable extradition
treaty with the United States. This treaty
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dates from 2002, when Tony Blair was keen
to give the United States everything it
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could possibly want and more. One of the
gentlemen pictured in this slide is Gary
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McKinnon. Very shortly after the 2002
extradition treaty came into force, Gary
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McKinnon started a 10 year battle not to
be extradited to the United States on
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hacking charges. He prevailed, in the end,
but only after he'd been through the
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entire legal process twice. And he was
rescued, eventually, by the say so of a UK
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home secretary. The other gentleman on
that slide is Lowry Love. In February last
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year, Larry won his battle against
extradition to the United States, again on
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hacking charges, at appeal in the high
court. I was involved in that campaign.
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I'm glad he won. I'm glad he won, because
it means we have a hope of saving Julian.
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He'd be in trouble if he hadn't. Larry won
on two different bases. One of them is
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very relevant. One of the reasons why
Lowry won his battle against extradition
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is, because judges in the high court,
including the most senior judge in England
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and Wales, ruled that U.S. prisons are so
bad, the conditions are so barbaric, so
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medieval, that somebody with preexisting
health conditions like Lowry, there was no
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guarantee he'd stay alive in a US prison.
You might be hearing more about that in
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February next year. But there are other
big, big issues involved in Julian
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Assange's extradition case. Big, big
issues that don't necessarily involve him
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that much at all. The first clip on that
slide is a part of Jon Stewart Mill's
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autobiography. John Stuart Mill, liberal
philosopher, and also a British politician,
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for a bit. And in this extract, he's
talking about how he battled to change an
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earlier incarnation of a UK extradition
treaty because he didn't want the British
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government to become, quote, "an
accomplice in the vengeance of foreign
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despotisms". Extradition should not be
used as a political tool for foreign
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governments to pursue and punish people it
doesn't like. People who are guilty of
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political offenses. It's a fundamental
question of sovereignty. If you were at
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Andy Müller-Maguhn's excellent talk
yesterday morning, you will have heard
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about the pervasive, thoroughgoing and
quite frightening surveillance that was
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happening at the at Ecuadorian embassy for
the seven years that Julian Assange was
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living there. This raises a fundamental
issue: If your every legal conference, all
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of your discussions with your lawyers are
being surveilled and allegedly passed
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straight to the power that's trying to
prosecute you, if all of your legal
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documents are handed over, allegedly -
well, actually, we know that - to the
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power that's trying to prosecute you. What
does that mean for your chances of a fair
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trial? If you care about surveillance at
all, we're going to have to make a stand
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in this very extreme case, because if we
don't, how are we ever going to stand up
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for fair trial rights for anyone?
Richter: Yes. And before I go further in
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our topic, I just want to say that I have
personal experience with the surveillance
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happening in the embassy, because I used
to visit Julian many, many times, maybe 30
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times from the moment he entered the
embassy till the last time I saw him is
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nearly exactly a year ago. It was around
Christmas last year. And at that point, I
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mean, I really could see the eroding
conditions that he lived in. I mean, just
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to see a person that didn't see the
sunlight for 7 years or something was
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terrible enough. But then the last year
when he lived quasi in isolation, had no
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access to phone or to internet, nothing,
because that was the way that he had
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contact with the world and had no visitors
anymore for nearly a year, I think,
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because we the people that visited him, we
were kind of his door to the world. And it
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was for me, very, very, very weird to be
surveilled all the time when I was there.
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Sometimes I spend five hours at least
there. And after a while, you just feel
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very uncomfortable. I was so happy when I
could leave that building, actually.
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Especially in the last two years. And then
I could not imagine staying there like him
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having no private moment. I mean, in the
end, they even put cameras in the
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bathrooms and and the toilets and so on. I
know there was this tiny kitchen,
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sometimes we used to hide from the cameras
to just have a moment of just talking
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without feeling surveilled. And then he
had also this little apparatus, I think
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Andy was talking about it yesterday in his
talk, that was causing white noise. And I
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was really annoyed, to be honest, by this
little thing. And I was always, I was also
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thinking about, my God, maybe he is too
paranoid, you know. Because the weird
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thing is you get used to everything, and
somehow, like us now being surveilled all
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the time through our phones and laptops
and so on, and we get used to it. But he
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always insisted, even when we were talking
like banal stuff about, I don't know, a
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soccer game or something, the little sound
machine was on causing white noise. And
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not only it caused disturbance for the
surveillors, it also caused headaches in
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my head. And so, yeah, it's actually a
very sad story. And for me, it was to see
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the process, when especially after the
government, the conservative government
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came into power in Ecuador, his status
very much changed. And so he became more
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and more something I would describe as a
prisoner and not someone who has asylum.
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Okay. This is on my personal note, how I
experienced it. And the other thing is, on
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this picture you see one of the first
protests that we did in Berlin, it was
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this year in May. It was a little after he
was dragged out of the embassy. And we
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were there with some people, including
Srećko Horvat, Croatian philosopher. And
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as you see on the picture also Ai Weiwei,
the Chinese artist and human rights
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advocate, who also openly supported
Assange always, and also not afraid of
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consequences, actually. And he
also visited him in prison. And what is
365
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also an interesting fact, that Ai Weiwei
also made the connection between the
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protests against the extradition law in
Hong Kong. And he connected with this very
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controversial extradition case of Julian
in the UK at the moment. So for me, it's
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sometimes something I could never believe
in, former times that I will be in a
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situation where we in the West, who are
the good ones and the free West, the so-
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called free West is somehow actually in
the top 10 of having dissidents in
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prisons, including the ones that we just
named, and that no human rights seem to be
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valuable anymore. And I find this very
concerning, I must say, also on a private
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level. Yes. And I was there, too, as you
see in the photograph. And before I went
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to the protest I was in Moscow, and I
visited Edward Snowden, because I also
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worked with him together. He helped me a
lot on the place I did. And this was the
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third time, actually, that I visited him.
And we also talked about Julian's case,
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and he gave me a letter of support that I
was reading out loud on this protest. And
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I will just read a little bit of it, that
you can see now: "By the government's own
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admission, Assange has been charged for
his role in bringing to light true
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information. Information that exposed war
crimes and wrongdoing perpetrated by the
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most powerful military in the history of
the world. It is not just a man who stands
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in jeopardy, but the future of the free
press." Yes, and I think that he is very
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much right in this case, because what does
it mean? I mean, for me, I'm also in the
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meantime, working as a journalist for Der
Freitag, I published a few of the articles
385
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about him and Snowden, and basically about
whistleblowing and these things. And if he
386
00:40:15,200 --> 00:40:21,660
can - if publishing becomes a crime,
telling the truth becomes a crime. And if
387
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you are not able to work with sources, to
protect sources and to actively also try
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to obtain material about truth. And
because we live in a democracy where the
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powers have to be shared and to have a
balance of power, because as we know, when
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power gets into a monopoly, it will always
be abused. And so...
391
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mumbling
I will cut it short. It has bad
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implications for journalists. And if this
happens to Julian, it is a threat not only
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00:41:03,400 --> 00:41:09,540
to journalism, but to democracy itself.
Avila: So we will accelerate, because all
394
00:41:09,540 --> 00:41:15,059
the what comes next is very, very
important. And yes, we saw immediately
395
00:41:15,059 --> 00:41:22,940
after the arrest of Julian the situation
going really badly in Australia. But what
396
00:41:22,940 --> 00:41:28,130
I wanted to discuss, we wanted to discuss
with you tonight, this is about you, about
397
00:41:28,130 --> 00:41:35,569
someone just like you. You can see, I
mean, I guess I can see you there. I can
398
00:41:35,569 --> 00:41:40,019
see you in these pictures and I can see
lots of similarities. You belong to the
399
00:41:40,019 --> 00:41:46,660
same species, basically. He was a single
father. He was prosecuted at a very, very
400
00:41:46,660 --> 00:41:52,829
young age. Spent five years of his 20s
fighting a legal process. But he was all
401
00:41:52,829 --> 00:41:57,819
the time with his computer. I cannot, I
really cannot imagine how his life was
402
00:41:57,819 --> 00:42:02,829
since April, away from his computer. Can
you imagine your life away from your
403
00:42:02,829 --> 00:42:08,299
computer even for one day? Imagine since
April, he has been away from his computer
404
00:42:08,299 --> 00:42:15,839
and only having one hour a day outside a
prison cell. And so while he was raising
405
00:42:15,839 --> 00:42:22,690
up a kid as a single parent, and while he
was dealing with a hacking legal process,
406
00:42:22,690 --> 00:42:29,089
he also was actively working for our
communities. He was co-running one of the
407
00:42:29,089 --> 00:42:34,319
first public access Internet providers in
Australia. He was always involved and
408
00:42:34,319 --> 00:42:40,599
dedicated thousands of hours to the free
software movement. His code was even used
409
00:42:40,599 --> 00:42:47,530
by Apple and other operating system. So
chances are that today, even today, our
410
00:42:47,530 --> 00:42:54,029
computers, our Apple devices - for the bad
people who uses Apple like me - Ironic
411
00:42:54,029 --> 00:43:02,180
part of his code. He was also from very
early time trying to find ways for
412
00:43:02,180 --> 00:43:09,319
vulnerable groups such as human rights
defenders, ways to encrypt their devices.
413
00:43:09,319 --> 00:43:14,190
And so he was very active before
WikiLeaks. WikiLeaks just was an upgrade,
414
00:43:14,190 --> 00:43:19,959
kind of, on his plans. And I also want
to mention that the CCC is mentioned,
415
00:43:19,959 --> 00:43:27,950
expressly mentioned, in that part of the
indictment against Julian. So what happens
416
00:43:27,950 --> 00:43:37,009
here, you know, it matters there. I think
that the sole fact that the community is
417
00:43:37,009 --> 00:43:42,130
mentioned on an indictment against a
journalist is enough reason to stand up
418
00:43:42,130 --> 00:43:46,930
and say something about it and organize
around it. But it is not only the
419
00:43:46,930 --> 00:43:53,570
community name on the indictment, and the
criminal complaint is also our
420
00:43:53,570 --> 00:44:00,640
communication practices. Raise your hand
if you have a Jabber account. So, yes, the
421
00:44:00,640 --> 00:44:04,829
Jabber server, the CCC server, is
mentioned in the criminal complaint
422
00:44:04,829 --> 00:44:10,809
against Julian.
Colvin: Well, yeah, I mean, but what's
423
00:44:10,809 --> 00:44:17,971
even more worrying is - oh, the microphone
- What's there is worrying, but what's
424
00:44:17,971 --> 00:44:23,079
even more worrying is that it's a moving
target. Things are still continuing. This
425
00:44:23,079 --> 00:44:28,180
is part of a submission the US government
made in Chelsea Manning's ongoing
426
00:44:28,180 --> 00:44:32,969
procedures talk about an ongoing
investigation. There's more to come. And
427
00:44:32,969 --> 00:44:40,999
it's even more bad omens. microphone noise Like that one.
Even more bad omens from from across the
428
00:44:40,999 --> 00:44:47,799
water in unrelated cases and will
prosecutorial series that are being put
429
00:44:47,799 --> 00:44:53,160
together, which are very disturbing and
augur for very bad things to come. I can't
430
00:44:53,160 --> 00:44:57,359
talk about that now, but it's an excellent
issue for the Q and A. What happens next?
431
00:44:57,359 --> 00:45:01,489
Well, immediately what's going to happen
next is that on the 24th of February, for
432
00:45:01,489 --> 00:45:05,880
three or four weeks, Julian Assange will
have his extradition hearing. To give you
433
00:45:05,880 --> 00:45:09,940
an indication of the size and scale of
this case, Larry loves extradition
434
00:45:09,940 --> 00:45:13,529
hearing, which was quite a big deal and
quite big. Took two and a half days.
435
00:45:13,529 --> 00:45:18,940
Julian's is going to be three or four
weeks. It will take place in Belmarsh
436
00:45:18,940 --> 00:45:23,792
Magistrates Court in a horrible part of
south east London, near the prison. It
437
00:45:23,792 --> 00:45:27,180
will probably take place in the courthouse
next door. They've got bigger courts, but
438
00:45:27,180 --> 00:45:34,779
it will be in that place in London.
Richter: So what can you do? OK. Do not be
439
00:45:34,779 --> 00:45:40,779
afraid to speak up, speak with people and
so on. And don't be afraid. We still live
440
00:45:40,779 --> 00:45:45,729
in a free country. Immunize yourself
against propaganda, which is really
441
00:45:45,729 --> 00:45:51,130
something that you should be beware. That
happened massively in the case of Julian.
442
00:45:51,130 --> 00:45:56,109
I think you know what I mean. And
understand what is at stake. This is a
443
00:45:56,109 --> 00:46:02,280
political persecution and it's about
everyone. And I want to quote Nils Melzer,
444
00:46:02,280 --> 00:46:07,640
the U.N. special rapporteur on torture,
who I met recently and this is a very
445
00:46:07,640 --> 00:46:13,089
famous quote of him, that he was
continuously actually saying to people in
446
00:46:13,089 --> 00:46:18,369
power. "Assange has been systematically
slandered to divert attention, attention
447
00:46:18,369 --> 00:46:24,369
from the crimes, crimes he exposed once he
had been dehumanized through isolation,
448
00:46:24,369 --> 00:46:29,529
ridicule and shame. Just like the witches
we used to burn at the stake. It was easy
449
00:46:29,529 --> 00:46:34,269
to deprive him of his most fundamental
rights and without provoking public
450
00:46:34,269 --> 00:46:39,599
outrage worldwide." And I think this is
exactly what happened to him.
451
00:46:39,599 --> 00:46:43,209
Avila: And this is a picture of really
courageous journalists from all over the
452
00:46:43,209 --> 00:46:48,600
world who stand up and say, like, stop
this prosecution. And they are a community
453
00:46:48,600 --> 00:46:55,779
Julian belongs to. But I have seen very
few real statements from this community.
454
00:46:55,779 --> 00:47:00,940
So our request tonight will be like,
please try to organize and try to do a
455
00:47:00,940 --> 00:47:05,880
similar effort that matters a lot. Now, we
will explain why.
456
00:47:05,880 --> 00:47:09,900
Colvin: It's really important, because no
man is an island and the UK is not an
457
00:47:09,900 --> 00:47:14,119
island. Even after Brexit, right? The UK
government does care about its
458
00:47:14,119 --> 00:47:18,369
international reputation, maybe unlike the
US. And the UK government needs to know
459
00:47:18,369 --> 00:47:22,719
that the world is watching. The world is
watching, they are hosting entirely
460
00:47:22,719 --> 00:47:29,780
unnecessarily, the most ridiculous, the
most important press freedom truck case of
461
00:47:29,780 --> 00:47:32,799
a generation, completely unnecessarily.
They need to know that we're keeping a
462
00:47:32,799 --> 00:47:36,779
careful eye on it. Over the past few
months, we've been putting a lot of effort
463
00:47:36,779 --> 00:47:41,749
into ensuring that the extradition
hearing, the trial, if you like, in
464
00:47:41,749 --> 00:47:46,359
February is properly monitored. We have 25
elected parliamentarians and 12 European
465
00:47:46,359 --> 00:47:50,019
countries who have committed to be being
part of those monitoring efforts.
466
00:47:50,019 --> 00:47:54,920
Reporters sans Frontières are going to are
going to monitor. We have a whole group of
467
00:47:54,920 --> 00:47:58,725
medics who are going to monitor the
extradition proceedings. And I think it
468
00:47:58,725 --> 00:48:02,469
would be good to have a similar effort
from this community, too, frankly.
469
00:48:02,469 --> 00:48:06,959
Avila: Especially because there are many
technical issues being discussed. Your
470
00:48:06,959 --> 00:48:11,509
opinion really matters for this trial, you
know. And he can't do it. He cannot do it
471
00:48:11,509 --> 00:48:16,319
from prison. He counts on you to help
lawyers, to help the press, to help
472
00:48:16,319 --> 00:48:21,549
everyone understand what is and what
isn't online publishing and online
473
00:48:21,549 --> 00:48:26,849
journalism. 21st Century journalism is at
stake on this case.
474
00:48:26,849 --> 00:48:30,859
Colvin: And your voice really matters
here. It really does. Yes.
475
00:48:30,859 --> 00:48:36,680
Avila: And, you know, he's our friend. And
it's not only someone we support, but he's
476
00:48:36,680 --> 00:48:42,150
our friend. And he likes to have the final
word, always. So we can now bring,
477
00:48:42,150 --> 00:48:49,309
bringing him back from the - eleven years
ago from a Congress like this one, to have
478
00:48:49,309 --> 00:48:56,349
the final word.
video sound fails
479
00:48:56,349 --> 00:49:09,809
Voice from the off: Oh, oh, oh. Hey, CIA?
Yeah. No, it's only a glitch. He's going
480
00:49:09,809 --> 00:49:23,019
to be frustrated, really angry. laughs
Richter: Try again?
481
00:49:23,019 --> 00:49:28,939
Avila: Is it ok?
Richter: Should we try?
482
00:49:28,939 --> 00:49:33,999
Avila: If not, we can... In the meantime,
we can read it out, we can read it out,
483
00:49:33,999 --> 00:49:42,249
so...
Colvin: "Justice doesn't just happen.
484
00:49:42,249 --> 00:49:46,279
Justice is forced by people coming
together and exercising strength, unity
485
00:49:46,279 --> 00:49:52,520
and intelligence." That's Julian at 25C3.
486
00:49:52,520 --> 00:50:09,882
applause
487
00:50:09,882 --> 00:50:12,220
Avila: Shall we try?
Richter: Should we try?
488
00:50:12,220 --> 00:50:18,319
Avila: Let's try one last time. No. Oh, my
God, silence.
489
00:50:18,319 --> 00:50:21,839
Colvin: He'll be annoyed by that. He would
be very annoyed. He's going to be really
490
00:50:21,839 --> 00:50:25,479
angry about that. All right.
Avila: Please do not tell him.
491
00:50:25,479 --> 00:50:28,479
Colvin: Yeah. Yeah, don't tell him. If you
don't tell him, he won't know.
492
00:50:28,479 --> 00:50:31,479
Avila: Yeah. So we are ready for some
questions. I think that we have very
493
00:50:31,479 --> 00:50:35,769
little time, but if we don't have enough
time, we will be hanging out that the
494
00:50:35,769 --> 00:50:41,989
teahouse and you can come to us and ask
questions and how to help.
495
00:50:41,989 --> 00:50:45,059
Herald Angel: Thank you so much.
496
00:50:45,059 --> 00:50:53,819
applause
497
00:50:53,819 --> 00:51:00,729
It was very insightful, moving and
incredibly important. So I remind everyone
498
00:51:00,729 --> 00:51:07,329
that we have six microphones. If you have
questions, line up behind them. And also
499
00:51:07,329 --> 00:51:12,860
our wonderful signal angels are going to
take some questions from the internet, one
500
00:51:12,860 --> 00:51:20,170
of which we're going to answer right now.
Signal Angel: Ok, there was the question
501
00:51:20,170 --> 00:51:24,219
that: Which reasons could there be to
explain the lack of fair and well balanced
502
00:51:24,219 --> 00:51:30,569
media reports in the Assange case?
Colvin: What are the reasons for the lack
503
00:51:30,569 --> 00:51:43,720
of support of media coverage? OK.
Avila: You want to answer that?
504
00:51:43,720 --> 00:51:48,630
Richter: You start and I will also help.
Mumbling
505
00:51:48,630 --> 00:51:53,769
Avila: Very quickly I will say that,
going back to this slide on who he
506
00:51:53,769 --> 00:51:58,599
exposed: the most powerful people. If
you have the most powerful people, like,
507
00:51:58,599 --> 00:52:06,209
in the world, private sector, public
sector, even hidden sector against you and
508
00:52:06,209 --> 00:52:13,789
with unlimited resources to take you down,
it's quite easy to kill positive stories. It
509
00:52:13,789 --> 00:52:18,660
is really hard in times that journalism is
on the resource and that the courageous
510
00:52:18,660 --> 00:52:23,789
journalists are not, like, really
rewarded. It is really difficult
511
00:52:23,789 --> 00:52:28,619
to navigate that ecosystem.
Richter: Yes. And I want to add that also
512
00:52:28,619 --> 00:52:34,369
there is a reason. I think if journalism
today would be - do a proper job of
513
00:52:34,369 --> 00:52:39,670
investigating and exposing the powerful,
that it would not be necessary that
514
00:52:39,670 --> 00:52:45,799
WikiLeaks even exists. I think if they
would do their job as the fourth, so-
515
00:52:45,799 --> 00:52:52,569
called fourth estate in democracy, then
something like WikiLeaks wouldn't even be
516
00:52:52,569 --> 00:52:58,519
there. And I think that might be a reason
that I think that the - he not only
517
00:52:58,519 --> 00:53:01,859
exposed the powerful, but he also a
little bit exposed, of course, his
518
00:53:01,859 --> 00:53:05,900
colleagues at the so-called established
press. And I think that every
519
00:53:05,900 --> 00:53:11,269
reason that he gave, and there were some
because he's not perfect, Julian Assange
520
00:53:11,269 --> 00:53:16,759
is only human, and he did make mistakes
like everybody of us. And I could say, OK,
521
00:53:16,759 --> 00:53:22,119
take the first stone and throw it. But I
think that, of course, bad news is always
522
00:53:22,119 --> 00:53:27,910
good news. And let's say many people who
knew him said, let's say, negative things
523
00:53:27,910 --> 00:53:32,640
that the press picked up. But, like, when
I would say to press - or I also know
524
00:53:32,640 --> 00:53:36,579
him, I think he's a decent guy. Nobody
wants to report that because it's boring
525
00:53:36,579 --> 00:53:39,859
and not interesting. So, yeah. There are
many reasons for that, I think.
526
00:53:39,859 --> 00:53:42,410
Colvin: I'm going to add that, I mean, the
fact that there are 10 years of history
527
00:53:42,410 --> 00:53:46,131
here definitely makes a difference. But
look, I speak to a lot of journalists and
528
00:53:46,131 --> 00:53:52,279
I speak to a lot of journalists about this
case in the UK and particularly as it's
529
00:53:52,279 --> 00:53:57,939
become more obvious that Julian is not
doing very well, that he's very unwell. I
530
00:53:57,939 --> 00:54:02,399
think people are shocked. And I can you
know. People are frightened about it. They
531
00:54:02,399 --> 00:54:06,519
might not be talking about it very much at
the moment, but they will. It is what is
532
00:54:06,519 --> 00:54:09,999
changing around for sure.
Richter: Yes. And then, speaking of being
533
00:54:09,999 --> 00:54:13,499
frightened, also, don't underestimate that
people might be afraid.
534
00:54:13,499 --> 00:54:18,390
Avila: And also, I know that there are
many journalists here tonight. This is
535
00:54:18,390 --> 00:54:23,259
your opportunity to change the narrative
because you are next if you stay silent.
536
00:54:23,259 --> 00:54:29,749
Herald: Thank you. We're going to take the
next question from a man who's wearing a
537
00:54:29,749 --> 00:54:35,699
Julian Assange mask. Gathering worth the
effort and microphone 2 please.
538
00:54:35,699 --> 00:54:42,439
M2: Oh, hi. I want to thank you so
much for your talk. When we are all facing
539
00:54:42,439 --> 00:54:47,989
this situation of asking ourselves what we
can do, we should take inspiration from
540
00:54:47,989 --> 00:54:54,079
what you just said and what you just did.
It is not just about Julian. It is about
541
00:54:54,079 --> 00:54:57,839
every one of us here.
Herald: This is wonderful, but that is not
542
00:54:57,839 --> 00:54:59,839
a question.
M2: No, but I'm getting there.
543
00:54:59,839 --> 00:55:04,529
Herald: Can you get there faster?
M2: It's about historical perspective on
544
00:55:04,529 --> 00:55:10,240
all these aspects about war, about power,
about what we can do, about what the
545
00:55:10,240 --> 00:55:15,880
internet is about to question power. It is
about also maybe admitting -
546
00:55:15,880 --> 00:55:21,039
Herald: Maybe much faster?
M2: much faster. It is not perfect. You may
547
00:55:21,039 --> 00:55:25,930
have said stupid things on Twitter like we
all did. And like anyone would do after
548
00:55:25,930 --> 00:55:30,880
seven years in detention.
Yet he's one of us. So when asking
549
00:55:30,880 --> 00:55:34,870
ourselves what to do. It's a modest
contribution from the internet. There is a
550
00:55:34,870 --> 00:55:39,289
wiki that is online for a few days now on
these stickers that you
551
00:55:39,289 --> 00:55:47,299
Herald: okay. We're going to take an
actual question. I am really sorry, but.
552
00:55:47,299 --> 00:55:52,079
Microphone 1, please. applause
Richter: Okay, still thank you.
553
00:55:52,079 --> 00:55:58,689
M1: I thank you for the inspiring talk, so
I am a Pakistani journalist I now live in
554
00:55:58,689 --> 00:56:05,599
exile in Berlin. But what the story of
Assange and what we just saw this. You
555
00:56:05,599 --> 00:56:09,359
know, everything that happened and the
perpetrators that even put the
556
00:56:09,359 --> 00:56:15,029
authoritarian regimes and their leaders in
shame, especially how the system of asylum
557
00:56:15,029 --> 00:56:19,729
has been breached. That also scares me. I
have actually called because I'm scared.
558
00:56:19,729 --> 00:56:23,509
But my question is, could you as
journalists maybe shed some light on the
559
00:56:23,509 --> 00:56:27,429
on the chilling effect for journalists? I
mean, I can only imagine that there might
560
00:56:27,429 --> 00:56:31,759
be more leaks in line that would have
happened, but maybe has not happened
561
00:56:31,759 --> 00:56:36,910
because the journalists are also now self
censoring. So what would you advise to
562
00:56:36,910 --> 00:56:43,339
such journalists? Thank you.
Richter: Well, that is is really exactly a
563
00:56:43,339 --> 00:56:48,289
very tough question. And this is exactly
one of the dangers that we are pointing to
564
00:56:48,289 --> 00:56:53,440
you know, that people might just not
expose it. And like I said, people are
565
00:56:53,440 --> 00:56:58,824
starting to get afraid. What can we say to
them? Well, ...
566
00:56:58,824 --> 00:57:00,649
Avila: I have something
567
00:57:00,649 --> 00:57:04,570
and I think that Julian has something to
say, this is endless with justice, with as
568
00:57:04,570 --> 00:57:10,380
a community, with strength, unity and
indulgence. I mean, look at the talent in
569
00:57:10,380 --> 00:57:17,949
this room. Look, it's not necessarily just
the brilliance of one whistleblower or one
570
00:57:17,949 --> 00:57:23,979
person. It's the ecosystem that we need to
create to create resilient media. And we
571
00:57:23,979 --> 00:57:29,630
need a resilient media for democracy to
work. And if it cannot happen, even here
572
00:57:29,630 --> 00:57:33,689
in Germany, with all the resources and
with all the brilliant minds, where is it
573
00:57:33,689 --> 00:57:39,249
going to happen? So I think that we cannot
stop innovating and we need to push for
574
00:57:39,249 --> 00:57:48,199
the next wave of innovations for the
journalism that we've served these needs
575
00:57:48,199 --> 00:57:52,739
in our times. And that's why this case
matters a lot, because it's punishing
576
00:57:52,739 --> 00:57:57,380
these innovations that these two
redistributed power among people. Yeah.
577
00:57:57,380 --> 00:58:01,069
There also needs to be a recognition. A
bit of solidarity is necessary here,
578
00:58:01,069 --> 00:58:06,359
because this isn't just about Julian. As
Renata mentioned briefly, things in
579
00:58:06,359 --> 00:58:10,410
Australia have gone to pop since Julian
was arrested. And more than that, one of
580
00:58:10,410 --> 00:58:14,969
the slides I flicked over was the
indictment of a drone with alleged drone
581
00:58:14,969 --> 00:58:19,569
whistleblower, Daniel Hale. In Daniel Hale
the count - one of Daniel Hale's
582
00:58:19,569 --> 00:58:24,309
indictment accuses him of unlawfully
releasing information. About unlawfully
583
00:58:24,309 --> 00:58:29,449
releasing information to a journalist who
he knew would have used it unlawfully. So
584
00:58:29,449 --> 00:58:34,219
this is like the second time in a US
indictment we have an accusation of a
585
00:58:34,219 --> 00:58:39,589
publisher, a journalist acting unlawfully
by publishing true information in the
586
00:58:39,589 --> 00:58:46,200
public interest. We need to be aware and
we need to raise the alarm, because this
587
00:58:46,200 --> 00:58:51,169
isn't just about Julian. The threat is
very real and it's very broad.
588
00:58:51,169 --> 00:59:01,259
Herald: Thank you. We have time for one
last question and we're going to ask our
589
00:59:01,259 --> 00:59:04,989
signal angels again.
Signal Angel: So there was the question
590
00:59:04,989 --> 00:59:10,329
how can we help and support Manning,
Assange and Snowden?
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00:59:10,329 --> 00:59:18,970
Richter: Well, like we just said also, I think
it's very important to show solidarity in
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00:59:18,970 --> 00:59:26,890
different ways by raising your voice.
Well, even supporting with donation, it's
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00:59:26,890 --> 00:59:30,890
always good. It's good for Manning. It's
good for everyone. I think Courage
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00:59:30,890 --> 00:59:36,420
Foundation is someone who's supporting
everyone, including Jeremy Hammond and
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00:59:36,420 --> 00:59:41,450
Chelsea Manning, who are not so much in
the focus maybe like Julian, but also for
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00:59:41,450 --> 00:59:46,739
Julian. I think that his trial will cost -
- my God - hundreds of thousands of
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00:59:46,739 --> 00:59:53,829
pounds. Let's hope that the pound
goes down after Brexit. But, OK. No. I
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00:59:53,829 --> 00:59:59,089
mean, and I think speaking up and like
Renata also said, to have the feeling that
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00:59:59,089 --> 01:00:03,650
we are many and I think exactly this thing
that he said. People coming together and
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01:00:03,650 --> 01:00:11,929
sharing and kind of be brave like "Courage
is contagious." is one of my favorite quotes
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01:00:11,929 --> 01:00:19,059
of him. And so I think I take a stand.
Have an attitude and do as much as you can
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01:00:19,059 --> 01:00:24,499
in your possibilities, which which are
not so little, I think. And I think it is
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01:00:24,499 --> 01:00:28,790
for the good of everyone, not only the
names, people who are in danger now, but
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01:00:28,790 --> 01:00:36,089
for all of our freedom. Colvin: Resist
practically. There's a lot to do and
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01:00:36,089 --> 01:00:41,579
there's a lot of work to go round or as
we've mentioned in the talk, organizing in
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01:00:41,579 --> 01:00:45,829
the communities you're part of. His work
is very important here in Germany. To take
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01:00:45,829 --> 01:00:49,299
an example, we've had parliamentarians
coming forward. We've also had the
608
01:00:49,299 --> 01:00:53,409
journalists' union. We've also had
collections of lawyers. All of this is
609
01:00:53,409 --> 01:00:55,569
really important. And it makes a
difference to the work that's being done
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01:00:55,569 --> 01:01:00,450
in the U.K. There are lots of different
organizations and groups doing work on
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01:01:00,450 --> 01:01:05,230
this case and it's all really valuable.
Contribute as you will, find a group that
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01:01:05,230 --> 01:01:08,289
you think is doing is doing good work.
Either work that you think will make a
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01:01:08,289 --> 01:01:13,530
difference or that accords with your own
ideological perspective and support them.
614
01:01:13,530 --> 01:01:20,760
There's a lot of people doing good work
here. I know one of the saving graces of
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01:01:20,760 --> 01:01:24,869
what has been quite a depressing year is
meeting so many people who were doing
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01:01:24,869 --> 01:01:29,869
important work on this most dire of
issues. Avila: And we have a lot of faith on you
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01:01:29,869 --> 01:01:35,730
as a community, to be honest. We count on
you and this community do not leave behind
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01:01:35,730 --> 01:01:41,939
people belonging here. And I think that if
we can see - I think that Julian will be
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01:01:41,939 --> 01:01:46,640
like incredibly thrilled and Chelsea will
be like super happy to know that there's
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01:01:46,640 --> 01:01:52,479
organized efforts to follow this case
closely and to have delegations present
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01:01:52,479 --> 01:01:58,219
during the hearings. And if they know that
you are there, even symbolically there,
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01:01:58,219 --> 01:02:04,479
they will feel so much better because more
and more to any community, Snowden,
623
01:02:04,479 --> 01:02:10,529
Chelsea, Julian really love this. Love,
admire and count on this community. So
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01:02:10,529 --> 01:02:15,049
please be there, and find us later, we
will explain the more detailed ways to
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01:02:15,049 --> 01:02:19,839
help. And thank you so much for attending
this talk. Like, really, it means a lot.
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01:02:19,839 --> 01:02:23,809
It means a lot to have a full room. And I
know that there's many people watching as
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01:02:23,809 --> 01:02:30,299
well and will watch this again. Please
continue following this case. We will
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01:02:30,299 --> 01:02:34,999
prepare all the information that you need.
But what you - we need you to activate
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01:02:34,999 --> 01:02:38,639
it and to translate it into action. Thank
you so much. Thank you. Thank you.
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01:02:38,639 --> 01:02:40,115
applause
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01:02:40,115 --> 01:02:42,192
Herald: Thank you for this.
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01:02:42,192 --> 01:02:45,139
postroll music
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01:02:45,139 --> 01:03:08,000
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