Debunking MatPat's Hollow Knight Theory

[MOSSBAG] I am literally
shaking and crying right now.

I can't believe MatPat has done this.

Is nothing in this world sacred anymore?

Is no work of art
free from this man's grasp?

Oh god… I can't do this.

How could MatPat really say all
those things about The Canterbury Tales?

What did Chaucer
ever do to deserve this?

I mean, sure, that deathbed confession
right at the end felt pretty contrived,

but The Wife of Bath's Tale has given us
precious insight into the role of women

during the late middle ages.

He probably even thinks
The Decameron is better written…

Pathetic.

Someone has to
stand up against this monster.

Someone has to tear his fu--

oh shit…

he gave me a shout-out.

Um…

…

thanks!

So the Game Theorists have finally put out
a Hollow Knight lore video,

and MatPat himself uttered my name with
his own two lips.

The capitalization in the video is wrong:
"MossBag" is supposed to be all lowercase.

I mean it's literally
how I start every video… but that's okay.

I'm still cool with it.

Thanks to MatPat,

my original Hollow Knight lore video
finally hit 1,000,000 views.

And more importantly, I
gained over 1,000 new followers on Twitter

so now even more
people can read my reviews of

each and every
episode of King of the Hill.

It's also great to see a video about
Hollow Knight trend on YouTube.

This community really has come a long way.

But, as cool as all that is,

MatPat's theory is… pretty bad.

Now, I may not have
11,000,000 subscribers like MatPat does,

and no, I've never given
a copy of Undertale to the Pope,

but I did sent the Dalai Lama
a copy of my Rick and Morty spec script,

and I am something of a theorist myself,

so I think I am qualified
to make a response to this new video.

And no, this isn't
some sort of take down video.

I'm already mortal enemies
with VaatiVidya and Indeimaus.

I don't need a third YouTuber coming after
me,

even if MatPat has defiled the sanctity of
our fandom with his

completely terrible and

abhorrently offensive…

Fuck.

This isn't going well...

I should just restart the video.

Here's some context
if you're just joining in:

The Hollow Knight community's
reaction to this new video has been...

pretty negative.

Mainly because there are
a lot of perceived flaws in the theory.

As a result, there are some people saying
that the Hollow Knight fanbase is "toxic."

And yeah, maybe my initial reaction to
MatPat's video could be perceived as...

... rude?

But you have to understand that being an
asshole is just part of my online schtick.

It's a completely original
and clever concept, I know.

But in general,
I don't think this community is too toxic.

Some of us are just a little defensive
about the lore, that's all.

But it is important to remember that, at
the end of the day,

MatPat is just a guy who wanted to talk
about Hollow Knight,

and I've got nothing against that.

It just gives me an excuse to
talk about this game even more.

That being said,

I reckon it's time to get out the propane
and propane accessories, boys and girls...

because we're about to
burn this theory to the ground.

So if you haven't seen the Game Theorists'
video yet, I recommend you check it out.

I'm going to go
through all of MatPat's arguments

but I'm not going
to play his whole video through,

so you'll have to watch it
yourself if you want the full context.

Then, you can watch this video

and come to your own
conclusion about Hollow Knight's lore.

The issue on debate here has to do with
the nature of the Knight

and the whereabouts of the Pale King.

MatPat's theory is that the Knight is
actually the Pale King, reincarnated.

[MATPAT] We are supposedly just another
one of those failed experiments,

except... I don't
think that's the case here.

If you stop and dig through the

massive amounts of secret lore
hidden throughout this game,

it's my belief that
we're not just some random nobody.

We are, in fact, royalty.

A king.

The King, in fact.

It's my belief that in Hollow Knight,
we're playing as the Pale King himself.

[MOSSBAG] This isn't a new theory.

It's been around for a while,

but I've never really talked
about it here on this channel.

There are several
problems with this theory,

the biggest one
being the lack of evidence.

A lot of the evidence that
MatPat will present in this video

can be interpreted in
ways that make much more sense

when put in a different context.

Second; there are pieces of
evidence that contradict this theory.

You can poke a lot of small
holes into MatPat's timeline here,

and a few bigger ones as well...
with the biggest hole being that

you literally see the Knight
with the Pale King, in the same room.

But I'm getting ahead of myself.

Let's start with MatPat's first argument:

The higher being tablets in the King's
Pass, which all begin with the phrase,

"Higher beings, these
words are for you alone."

These tablets are very mysterious,

and I don't think that there is
really a consensus on what they mean.

One theory I see a lot is that these
tablets were left here for the vessels,

as a way to teach them how to focus SOUL.

But then why did the Pale King leave a
lore tablet like this in the Ancient Basin

or the Howling Cliffs?

They don't contain information
that would be pertinent to them,

and some of these tablets seem
to predate the creation of the vessels.

Another theory is that
the tablets are addressed to the bugs

that were granted higher thought
through the Pale King's beacon.

The problem with that theory is that the
tablets teach you how to focus SOUL,

which doesn't seem to be
a thing that regular bugs can do.

At least, not easily.

Personally I believe this
explanation is the correct one,

but my thoughts
on it are super speculative.

I've linked a document
below if you want to check it out.

So yeah, these tablets
are quite mysterious indeed.

But for MatPat's argument,

all that really matters
is the fact that the Knight can read them,

even though they are stated
as being intended for only higher beings.

MatPat explains that
higher beings are godlike creatures,

mentioning the Reddit AMA post
and the Kingsoul charm description.

I agree with Matt here.

He then mentions that pretty much
only higher beings can manipulate SOUL.

[MATPAT] The tablet even says, quote:

"You shall achieve feats
of which others can only dream."

Again, setting apart SOUL-users

like our Knight

from pretty much every other creature
that we encounter throughout this game.

Now, MatPat does say
"pretty much every other creature,"

so I can't say he's wrong,

but there are examples of
creatures that can manipulate SOUL

that aren't higher beings.

Two examples of this
would be the snail shamans

and the scholars of the Soul Sanctum.

The snail shaman gives the
Knight the Vengeful Spirit [spell],

and another SOUL spell can be found near
another shaman in the Overgrown Mound.

The higher being tablet in the King's Pass
teaches the Knight how to focus SOUL.

We see the word "focus"
again in the Ancestral Mound,

where there is a whispering
root that gives the Dream Nail dialogue,

"…Spiral focus…"

I think this is referring to how the
shaman can focus SOUL to cast spells,

just like the Knight.

The word "spiral" probably
refers to the spiral of the snail shell

the shaman is wearing.

Now, the nature of the
snail shamans is a little sketchy,

seemingly tied to the void somehow,

but I don't think they are higher beings.

However, the bugs of the Soul
Sanctum are definitely not higher beings.

They were able to learn how to manipulate
SOUL through diligent practice and study,

but as a result their minds have begun
to swell and ache…

so it's not really an ideal situation.

(YOU DON'T SAY)

In the Soul Sanctum,

there's a lore tablet that also mentions
their desire to attain a "pure focus,"

and while they may not have been totally
successful,

these bugs have proven that they were
capable of manipulating SOUL.

And the specific focus ability that the
Knight learns from the lore tablet

is not specific to just this vessel.

During the Pure Vessel fight,

the Hollow Knight uses a move that's
described in the game's code

as being a focus ability.

So this ability doesn't appear to separate
the Knight from the other vessels.

But ultimately, I don't think this really
hurts the point MatPat is trying to make:

that being that
the Knight is a higher being.

[MATPAT] So not only are we reading
tablets reserved for higher beings,

but we're also using skills reserved for
the godlike creatures of the world

on par with the Pale King.

Does it really sound like
we'd just be some failed experiment

cast into the depths of this world?

[MOSSBAG] I think it's possible that the
Knight is a higher being in some regard,

but that doesn't mean the Knight has to be
a reincarnation of the Pale King.

The Knight, the Hollow Knight,
and the other vessels

are the offspring of the Pale King and
the White Lady.

There's a lot of evidence for this.

There's the White Lady, who literally
calls the Knight her "spawn;"

the line "Born of God and Void," from
the birthplace cutscene,

alludes to the vessels being born from
the White Lady and the Pale King,

but then being corrupted by the Void;

and there's the fact that the Pale King
and the White Lady had a quote-unquote…

"Union."

[♪ 'Let's Get It On' by Marvin Gaye ♪]

I don't think MatPat is arguing against
this point,

but calling the
Knight a "failed experiment"

could lead people
to believe that the vessels

really aren't the
Pale King's biological children.

Granted, Grimm does
call the Knight a "craft,"

but this is possibly just referring to how
the vessels are a combination

of the spawn of higher beings

mixed with the influence of Void.

Another big piece of
evidence for this is the fact that

the achievement you get
for defeating the Hollow Knight

with Hornet by your side
is called "Sealed Siblings."

This confirms that the Knight and Hornet
are siblings,

and we know that Hornet is the daughter of
the Pale King

since the White Lady mentions that the
Pale King had sex with Hera the Beast.

[♪ 'Let's Get It On" by Marvin Gaye ♪]

Not only does this strengthen the argument

that the vessels were the literal children
of the Pale King,

but it also pretty much confirms that the
Knight specifically

is a child of the Pale King.

Which, by the way, debunks MatPat's
whole theory.

… So I guess we could end the video now.

[♪ 'Obstacle Course'
Yoshi's Island SSBU Ver. ♪]

As I was saying,

being the literal children
of two higher beings would suggest

that the Knight and all the other
vessels are also higher beings as well.

This is hinted at for the Hollow Knight at
least

in the hunters journal entry for the
Pure Vessel,

which mentions that it has a "holy shell."

So I don't think this attribute separates
the Knight as being unique

compared to the other vessels.

This is an argument you're going to hear
me use a lot in this video.

A lot of the connections MatPat makes
between the Knight and the Pale King

can be explained by remembering that the
Knight is the Pale King's child.

The reason we should interpret it this way

is because the game explicitly tells us
that the Knight is the Pale King's child,

while there really isn't anything telling
us that they're the same person.

After this argument, MatPat brings up the
very beginning of the game:

The "Elegy For Hallownest."

MatPat first mentions that the poem itself
isn't about Hallownest

but is instead about the Pale King.

[MATPAT] You don't know it
when you start the game,

but this poem is about the Pale King.

[MOSSBAG] So this poem is called "Elegy
For Hallownest"

but the poem itself seems to be addressed
to a person,

so it's not a stretch to think that the
poem is

actually talking about the Pale King.

Hallownest is the Pale King's kingdom,

and everything that Hallownest offered to
travellers was because of the Pale King.

The two are so closely entwined that the
poem is pretty much saying the same thing

regardless of if its addressed to the
personified version of Hallownest

or to the Pale King himself.

MatPat then goes into what the
poem means when it says that the Pale King

"tamed savage souls
and redeemed base instincts."

[MATPAT] In the beginning of the game's
lore,

all bugs were basically a hivemind
controlled by the moth god, Radiance.

The Pale King was the one who expanded
the minds of bugs,

giving them individuality and sapience,

showing them, as the poem says,

"a world that they had never dreamed."

[MOSSBAG] There really isn't any evidence
that the Radiance's control was widespread

before the Pale King's arrival.

I'm not saying it's impossible,

but another possibility is that the bugs
didn't have individuality or sapience

because they were living in a wasteland

similar to what we
see outside of Hallownest.

Those bugs don't have minds, as it would
be a weakness out in the wild,

but when the Pale King showed up, he
established a kingdom

and expanded the minds of these bugs.

He also drew the
attention of the moth tribe,

who were at the
time worshipping the Radiance

but ended up yeeting her out of their
memory,

causing her to be sealed away.

The infection and the hivemind might have
been the result

of the Radiance's imprisonment.

As the Moss Prophet explains, "To stifle
that light is to suppress nature.

Nature suppressed distorts, plagues us."

This implies that the infection is a
byproduct

of the Radiance being sealed away.

This makes more sense to me than the
Radiance already having bugs

enslaved in a hivemind, and then the Pale
King just strolled in and saved them.

I mean if you look at what is happening in
this animation…

it doesn't really make sense, does it?

If the Pale King can
just cure infection like this,

then what's the point of all the stuff
that happens later with the vessels?

[MATPAT] It's important to note, too, that
this isn't just a poem about the Pale King

but it's directed to the Pale King.

"Your name."

"You the challenge met."

And then what do we see appear on screen
just moments later?

Our Knight.

It would be one thing if the poem was just
about the Pale King,

but the fact that it's directed at him

just seconds before
we actually see our character

makes it seem like the designers

are drawing a parallel between this king
of legend

and our first appearance on screen.

We are the "you" in that poem.

[MOSSBAG] … Except there's a whole other
cutscene in between this poem

and when we see the Knight.

By this logic, this means that the Hollow
Knight is the Pale King.

I mean technically we do see Zote moments
after this poem.

A few thousand moments, maybe… but the
principle still applies.

But even if the intro cutscene with the
Knight appeared right after the poem,

I still wouldn't find it very compelling.

I mean, we are entering Hallownest,

and the poem is talking about Hallownest

or at least the person who built it,

so why does the Knight have to be factored
into this at all?

Let's move on to Elderbug.

There are a lot of places you can look to
find information about the Pale King…

The Elderbug is not one of them.

As you'll see, I don't think MatPat's
interpretations of Elderbug's dialogue

makes any sense.

MatPat argues that Elderbug's dialogue
about dreams

hints at the Knight being the Pale King.

[MATPAT] The usage of the
word "dreams" is important,

since at the beginning of the game, not
knowing the lore of this world,

we all assume it's just our knight
pursuing the dream of wealth or fame,

just like the Elderbug says.

But late in the game we get ourselves an
item called the Dream Nail,

which is how we
unlock memories of the past,

and ultimately defeat the Radiance inside
the mind of Hollow Knight.

It's also the tool that allows us to find
the Pale King's White Palace.

It is a place that is
literally hidden in dreams.

So like Elderbug says, we are
seeking our dreams

in perhaps a very literal sense,

which is especially true if we are playing
as the Pale King.

[MOSSBAG] The Knight goes to a lot of
different places in the dream world,

so I don't know what
makes the White Palace so special.

This interpretation also ignores the rest
of the Elderbug's dialogue.

Elderbug goes on to warn about the
infection below, and finishes by saying,

"Perhaps dreams aren't
such great things after all."

This dialogue makes sense if we link it
back to the Radiance.

The Radiance's infection begins by
plaguing the dreams of a bug

until their will becomes enslaved.

In fact, the achievement unlocked for
beating the Radiance is called

"Dream No More."

So I think this line makes much more sense
if we interpret it as being

a warning about the Radiance.

If we interpret those extra lines using
MatPat's reading,

then the Elderbug is telling us not to go
to the White Palace, I guess?

Now, it's worth noting that the Elderbug
mentions dreams again,

when you dream nail him
after giving him the Delicate Flower,

remarking, "Perhaps dreams
aren't such bad things after all…"

I think this just shows how the Knight has
restored hope in Elderbug,

similar to how it restores hope for
Hallownest…

or something like that.

MatPat's next point has to do with the
Elderbug's dialogue

if you initially ignore
him at the start of the game,

and then come back.

He'll mention that
he thought he saw a ghost.

[MATPAT] If we are indeed the Pale King
returning to a land that we once abandoned

we would indeed be a ghost from the past.

It's another potentially really clever
play on words that I appreciated.

Am I reading too much into this?

Maybe, but again this is clearly a team
who has themselves a literary flair,

and who like to make you really think
about the words that they're using.

[MOSSBAG] So MatPat's reading too much
into this.

Now, to be fair, the word "ghost" might
actually be hinting at

the Knight's true nature.

The word ghost is only used nine other
times in the game,

all of which are from Hornet when talking
to the Knight.

Hornet calls the Knight a "ghost" because
it is the dead shell

of a child of the Pale King and
White Lady

that has been
hollowed out and animated by Void.

So maybe Elderbug's dialogue is alluding
to that,

but I still think this is just a common
expression the Elderbug is using.

The next part of MatPat's video has to do
with how the Knight is recognized

by a few different people as being
related to the King.

First up is the White Lady:

[MATPAT] During one of your interactions
with the White Lady,

AKA the Queen,

she outright says to the Knight,

"Is it more than just a vessel?

I feel like once again I am
in the presence of my beloved Wyrm."

Wyrm being another name for the Pale King.

[MOSSBAG] This dialogue only appears
within a certain context

that MatPat fails to mention.

This dialogue is triggered after
the Knight collects the Kingsoul charm.

This charm is described as symbolizing a
union between two higher beings,

and pieces of this charm can be found in
the possession of both the White Lady

and the Pale King's corpse.

So part of this charm literally came from
the Pale King,

which means it's no surprise that the
White Lady thinks of him

when the Knight has it, and only
when the Knight has it.

Also, when talking to the White Lady with
the Grimmchild charm fully upgraded,

she says this:

"Success then for the scarlet heart, and
irony to use my spawn to grow its own."

She literally calls the Knight her "spawn"

so I don't think the Knight
is supposed to be her husband.

Now don't get me wrong, I'm into some
kinky shit,

but even I think that's too much, man.

[MATPAT] And she's not the only one who
gets

kingly vibes from the Player Character.

The White Defender,

one of the Pale King's five main knights,

also has interesting dialogue. Quote:

"Your noble bearing
reminds me of our dear King."

So that's two of the King's closest
relations

being reminded of their dearly departed
when they interact with us.

[MOSSBAG] You don't need to have the
Kingsoul to fight the White Defender,

but notice how toned down this line is
from what the White Lady said.

The White Defender says the Knight reminds
him of the Pale King, which makes sense,

considering the fact that
the Knight is the child of the Pale King.

Matt then mentions the royal retainers,
and how they bow to the Knight.

[MATPAT] Ten out of ten royal retainers
can't be wrong:

you are royalty, plain and simple.

[MOSSBAG] Now some
people in the comments section

were arguing that they only bow if the
Knight has the King's Brand,

but that's not true.

They bow regardless.

This is an argument I've seen a lot from
the people who disagree with MatPat:

That most of the characters being reminded
of the Pale King

when looking at the Knight

can be explained via the King's Brand.

But you can reach the White Defender

and the White Palace

without the King's Brand.

To my knowledge, the only character

confirmed to explicitly mistake the Knight

for the Pale King due to the King's Brand

is Eternal Emelitia.

But it doesn't really matter that the
Knight doesn't have the King's Brand,

because you can still argue that the
royal retainers are bowing

because the Knight
is related to the Pale King.

There are statues of the Hollow Knight in
the White Palace, after all.

Which could mean that they revered the
vessels as well as the Pale King,

but there are a lot of questions
surrounding the royal retainers.

If you dream nail them,

they appear to be
talking to the Pale King.

They mention things like,
"… We will wait… King…"

and, "…King… Your troubles… Let us…"

Another detail worth mentioning is that
the royal retainers explode into essence

when they are killed,

leaving no corpse behind.

So what should we make of this?

It seems to me like these bugs are unaware

that the Pale King is dead,

and are awaiting him to take some sort of
action,

but are worried about his state of mind.

The dream nail dialogue doesn't imply that
they recognize the Knight as the Pale King

who has finally returned,

but again there's something weird going
on with these guys.

They seem to be living in the past,

and are not really
in a lucid state of mind.

So yeah, I think there's a lot of
mystery surrounding these guys,

but to sum this section up:

I still agree with MatPat's point here,

that being that the Knight is royalty.

But again, that doesn't help prove this
reincarnation theory,

because we know that the Knight is royalty

through it being the Pale King's child.

MatPat then goes into a discussion

about how the Pale
King went from his first Wyrm form

into his second bug form.

This occurred at Kingdom's Edge,

where the Wyrm's
corpse can still be found.

A fat-ass caterpillar named Bardoon
explains that when Wyrms die,

they don't just die

but actually transform
into something else.

[MATPAT] So Bardoon knows the Pale King
spawned out of the Wyrm,

he clearly says that
the kingdom is his doing,

but this line of "more transformation"

seems to imply that the Pale King's death

would only lead to yet another form.

Do we think that Team Cherry put this line
in here for no reason?

I THINK NOT.

[MOSSBAG] Bardoon isn't saying
"more transformation"

as in there'll be another transformation.

He's saying that death, for a Wyrm,

is more like a transformation.

Now is there anything in the game
that says the Pale King can or cannot

transform a second time?

… Well, no.

But we don't really have any proof that
the Pale King did transform

into a third form.

Let's look at the egg that the Pale King

hatched out of from the Wyrm.

Page 111 of the Wanderer's
Journal discusses this transition:

"What happened to the Wyrm from there
is a mystery;

"it doesn't appear to have died there,

"so perhaps it shed its gargantuan form

"and became something entirely different.

"Deep within the maw of the carcass,

a pale, broken egg of some sort hints at
such a rebirth."

This implies that the Pale King hatched
out of the egg

inside the cast-off shell of the Wyrm.

So how exactly does the Pale King's third
form materialize?

We find his corpse on the throne,

but we can't go inside of him to check if
there's another egg in there somewhere.

There's the egg on the right hand side of
the room,

but that doesn't really seem like
something a creature would hatch from.

It was probably even made before the Pale
King's second form died,

since it appears to be written from his
perspective.

But MatPat has his own theory about all
this,

so let's table this discussion for now.

After talking about how the Pale King
might have a third form,

MatPat begins to explain what Void is,

where it's found, and how it works.

He draws our attention to the lore
tablet found in the Pale King's workshop.

This tablet explains that the Void is
opposed to the Pale King,

but that Void contains a power to deny
time itself.

[MATPAT] This quote is interesting.

Based on the clues in that workroom,

as well as the game's bestiary,

we know that the Pale King was using void
to create soldiers:

the Kingsmoulds and Wingmoulds that
populate his White Palace.

We also know that he was using Void to
create

the vessels intended
to trap the infection.

Vessels like the Hollow Knight,

which would also include our character.

But this quote is referencing him using
the Void for yet another purpose.

A third purpose;

not fighting the Radiance;

not protecting his castle;

but instead fighting time itself.

He wants to use the Void to achieve
eternal life.

For himself?

For his kingdom?

It's unclear,

but it once again gives credence to the
idea that,

in his next life,

he would choose to rebirth himself as a
Void-based creature.

One not bound by the restrictions of time.

One just like our Knight.

[MOSSBAG] I kind of agree with a little
bit of this…

but not really.

I think the purpose of "denying time"
refers to the Radiance,

who the Pale King is trying to stop

in order to keep his kingdom lasting
eternally.

There are several bits of dialogue to look
over here.

Both Hornet and the Hive Queen Vespa refer
to Hallownest as being in "perpetuation."

Or, in other words, "frozen in time."

Monomon calls Hallownest
"a world forever unchanging."

Both Hornet and the Mask Maker mention
that the kingdom is in stasis.

And then we have the dialogue directly
connecting all this to the Hollow Knight.

The monuments to the Hollow Knight and
the Dreamers

mention that through their actions

Hallownest lasts eternal.

The lore tablet in the White Palace
throne room reads,

"Eternity in promise and charge in progeny
cursed."

This line is likely referring to how the
Pale King

planned to keep his kingdom lasting
eternally

by somehow cursing his descendants.

And that's exactly what he did:

the Hollow Knight is described by Hornet

as being "our birth-cursed sibling,"

and Hornet has dream nail dialogue during
the Greenpath fight that reads,

"Only pity for your cursed kind."

All of this is done to hold back the
Radiance.

The Radiance is alluded to as being a
force of nature by Bardoon,

the Moss Prophet,

and Hive Queen Vespa.

The Radiance is the inevitable dawn

that will eventually
break over the horizon.

Now dev notes aren't necessarily canon,

but there are also dev notes explaining
that the kingdom is in stasis,

and that the events of Hollow Knight take
place over one long night.

So to recap:

the "deny time" line from the
tablet in the Pale King's workshop

is probably referring to how the Pale King
planned to create a Vessel

that could be used
to deny the arrival of the Radiance,

placing all of Hallownest
in some kind of stasis.

Nothing implies that the Pale King was
doing this to himself.

I would argue that Void could never give
the Pale King eternal life;

the Void is the power opposed,

so it would probably kill him if he tried
to fuse with it.

After all, we know that the vessels were
killed by the Void,

since the White Lady mentions that the
Knight died

in the birthplace where it was born.

[MATPAT] Making this connection even more
interesting

are the eggs.

Just outside the
Pale King's throne room

is a lore tablet
housed inside of a black egg.

A tablet that speaks of the ancient Wyrm

becoming the Pale King.

It seems to suggest that this egg here is
where version 1.0 of the Pale King

hatched into its
upgraded form… as it were.

And now look at the birthplace of our
Knight down in the Abyss:

a similar black egg.

Could it be where version 2.0 transformed
yet again?

[MOSSBAG] I don't believe the
phrase "The Wyrm becomes beacon"

is talking about
the Pale King's transformation.

I think this sentence is about how the
Pale King expanded the minds of bugs.

Basically, the Pale King was able to grant
bugs sapience through his beacon,

but we don't really
have a lot of information on this.

If I had to guess, I'd say it might be
some sort of metaphysical power.

The word beacon is used only
one other time in the whole game,

and it's by the Godseeker.

She says, "Even long departed,

"we feel the afterglow of
the God-power that sat this throne…

"It lays heavy upon this kingdom.

"That lingering power alone was
beacon enough to draw Us to Hallownest.

How bright it must have been to mortal
bug stood before it."

So the afterglow of
the Pale King's God-power

acted as a beacon for the Godseekers.

Is this the same concept as the beacon
mentioned in the lore tablet?

MatPat appears to think "beacon"

is another name
for the Pale King's smaller form,

which I guess is possible,

but it's kind of a weird name.

When I see this,

I don't really think of this.

I'm a little
confused by MatPat's next point.

Like I said earlier,

there's evidence to suggest that the egg
the Pale King was hatched from

is found in the cast-off shell

in Kingdom's Edge.

Here, MatPat is arguing that the egg in
the throne room

is what the Pale King hatched from.

What's confusing to me is that

earlier in the video, it's implied that
the cast-off shell egg

was what the Pale King hatched from.

[MATPAT] It is clearly established in the
lore

that the King has
the ability to transform.

In fact, the Pale King form is actually
his version 2.0.

[MOSSBAG] I don't know if there was some
miscommunication

between MatPat and one of his editors,

or if there was
a script change or something,

but I figured I'd point this out because…

It's…

weird.

The video gets it right initially,

but then contradicts itself a few minutes
later.

So it seems unlikely that the Pale King
was hatched

from the egg in the throne room,

so what exactly is going on with this egg?

Honestly, I don't know.

There are a few other eggs in the game

that appear to store information similar
to this one.

The egg-looking things
found in the King's Pass,

Ancient Basin, and Black Egg are all lore
tablets.

We also know that the arcane eggs were
used to store information somehow.

Is this egg similar to those eggs in its
creation and design?

On the other hand,

the floor here is similar
to the floor found in the Black Egg

so maybe it's related to that.

Regardless,

it seems pretty unlikely that
the Pale King was born from this egg,

given that the Wanderer's Journal
does everything short of flat-out

saying he hatched from the egg in the
cast-off shell.

Finally, MatPat questions whether or not
the Pale King's third form was born out of

this egg in the Abyss;

the one our Knight was presumably born
from.

This is where things go really
off the rails.

Remember how I mentioned before that
the Knight

and the Pale King show up in the same room
at one point?

Well that happens in a cutscene that can
be triggered

after the Knight strikes its own
reflection on this egg

with the Dream Nail.

In this sequence,

the Knight climbs to the top of the Abyss.

When they get there,

they see the Pale King leaving

alongside a younger version of the Hollow
Knight

that looks back before the Knight
plunges back into the darkness.

After this cutscene

the Kingsoul charm turns into the
Void Heart,

a charm required to unlock the four
alternate endings to the game.

This cutscene is arguably one of the most
important moments in the game,

showing the Pale King at one of his lowest
points

choosing to sacrifice his children to the
Void

in order to create a pure vessel.

There's a lot of dialogue and symbolism
surrounding this event,

and none of it hints at the Pale King
becoming the Knight.

Let's look at the Kingsoul again.

This charm symbolizes the union between
two higher beings.

In other words,

this charm represents the children of the
Pale King.

When talking to the White Lady with this
charm,

she will tell the Knight to visit that
place where it was born,

where it died,

where it all began.

She's referring to an area in the Abyss

described as a birthplace by the Kingsoul
charm.

In this location,

the Knight finds its birthplace:

an egg, connected to Void tendrils.

After experiencing the birthplace
cutscene,

the Kingsoul turns into the Void Heart.

This is symbolic of the children of the
Pale King and White Lady

becoming corrupted by the Void itself.

That's what the Pale King means when he
says

"…Soul of Wyrm. Soul of Root.
Heart of Void…"

The Knight acquiring the Void Heart

symbolizes how it has come to terms
with its past.

In fact, the achievement you get after
this cutscene

strongly implies it's
a scene from the past.

The Void achievement reads,

"Remember the past and unite the Abyss."

The White Lady also
remarks on this, saying,

"Truly, it has been transformed by the
revelations it found."

In summary,

this scene is showing
a memory from the Knight

when it was discarded into the Abyss

by the Pale King.

So in other words,

it's completely impossible

for the Pale King to hatch out of this egg

if what we see here is a memory.

And like the achievement said,

the cutscene allows the Knight to remember
its past.

Now, MatPat didn't mention this cutscene
at all in his video;

however, he did leave a pinned comment
addressing the issue.

He says that he cut the part talking about
this scene from the video for both time

and because it was "too complicated for
the tone he was looking for in the video."

For his first point,

videos on YouTube can be much longer
than 20 minutes

so that's no excuse, in my opinion.

I get that The Game Theorists is a big
channel with employees;

schedules;

semi-annual office blood rituals;

overhead;

low toner;

shit that I mostly
don't have to worry about.

But if your format is forcing you to cut

crucial information out of your videos,

which are trying to provide persuasive
arguments,

then you need to do some retooling.

As for his second point, I agree.

It does complicate things,

especially considering it debunks his
entire video if he can't counter it.

But it's not that big of a deal

since MatPat tackled the counterargument

in this pinned comment.

So let's see what he's got.

First he says that the Pale King is
"transparent" in this scene,

which might hint at him not really being
there.

I have no idea what MatPat is talking
about here.

The Pale King does have a glow around him
in this scene,

but the Pale King has been described as
being a light

or giving off a light by Seer,

the Archive tablets,

the Throne Room tablets,

the Last Stag,

and Eternal Emelitia.

So the transparency argument is debunked
by…

having eyes.

Then MatPat says that because the
birthplace cutscene is a dream sequence,

technically anything is possible.

Which…

…um…

[JUSTIN] I give it to
you, you got me there.

[MOSSBAG] I mean, sure,

anything is possible.

Hell, maybe Ronald McDonald
was there too,

but the Knight suppressed that memory

so much that we just can't see him.

There are a lot of different ways to
interpret something,

but the best interpretations

are the ones that
line up with what we know

about the rest of the game's lore.

If we just assume that this is the Knight
remembering its own past,

like the achievement message strongly
implies,

then there aren't really any problems with
this cutscene.

But if we think the Pale King later turns
into the Knight,

then this whole scene becomes a complete
mess.

This is the moment the Knight has a huge
revelation about its true nature.

How exactly is this scene revealing to the
Knight

that it is the Pale King?

You'd think that this moment would at
least hint at it,

and not completely contradict it.

Why does this scene exist at all?

What's the point of it?

The weight of this entire scene is
neutered by MatPat's theory.

It no longer becomes an emotional moment

showing how the Knight was discarded

just like the other thousands of vessels,

but instead this scene becomes an eyesore;

a loose end to a theory that sounds cool
on the surface,

but doesn't resonate with what we see in
the game.

But I've been talking for way too long.

Let's get back to MatPat.

He then mentions how the nursery song in
the White Palace

is the same song we hear when the Knight
is next to its shade.

He then mentions the journal entry for the
shade.

[MATPAT] The description of these shadows
reads,

"Echo of a previous life.

"Each of us leaves an imprint of something
when we die.

A stain on the world."

So the sound that accompanies our
Knight's past life

coincides with the same sound

from a nursery housed inside the Pale
King's palace?

The existence of a connection between our
Knight and the Pale King

seems undeniable.

[MOSSBAG] I think there's a much
better interpretation for this.

After the Pale King chose the Hollow
Knight as the Vessel,

the Hollow Knight likely lived in the
White Palace.

We even see that this is the case in the
Path of Pain cutscene.

So chances are the Hollow Knight was kept
in this crib.

The Hollow Knight is, of course, similar
to the Knight

in that it is a child of the Pale King and
the White Lady,

and it also has a shade similar to the
Knight.

Connecting this nursery song to the Pale
King

to say he became a Void creature

is a much bigger leap.

And it also has another
problem that I will get into shortly.

But first,

let me play another
section of MatPat's video.

[MATPAT] It's almost as if the King laid
the groundwork

for him to be reborn as Void,

died,

was hatched of Void from the black egg
in the Abyss,

was taken back to the Palace to be raised

and was eventually sent away from the
kingdom

to avoid succumbing to the infection,

only to be called back when he was older

and when the Hollow Knight started losing
control.

[MOSSBAG] Okay,

let's take this piece by piece.

First, MatPat says that the King
"laid the groundwork

for him to be reborn as Void."

There is no evidence for this.

I'm guessing MatPat is basing this off of

the "deny time" section of the workshop
tablet,

but again I don't
think the tablet is referring

to the Pale King's desire to become
a Void creature, at all.

Next, he says that the Pale King died.

[♪ 'For The Damaged Coda' by
Blonde Redhead ♪]

(RIP glowing fork man)

Damn.

I actually completely agree with MatPat on
this one.

This calls for a celebration.

[♪ 'Celebration' by Kool & The Gang ♪]

He then says the Pale King was

"hatched of Void from the black egg
in the Abyss."

I don't think that is the case.

We see that the first transformation of
the Pale King

was from an egg inside the Wyrm corpse,

but for his second transformation

he somehow died in the White Palace

and turned into an egg larger than his
own body,

and then the egg was somehow transported
to the Abyss

despite the fact that the gateway to the
Abyss was sealed.

Now, in his pinned comment

MatPat pointed out an issue that I think
is valid.

He asked how exactly were the vessels even
able

to escape the Abyss in the first place.

This has been a pretty big question in the
lore for a while now.

In a Reddit AMA,

Team Cherry mentioned that they weren't
sure how it happened.

So yeah, they're pretty much useless as
usual.

This issue can kinda counter my argument
here;

if there are multiple entrances to the
Abyss

then of course they could get the egg back
down there.

I still don't buy that explanation

but I do have a theory about how the
vessels escaped.

In the bottom right corner of Deepnest,

there's an area that has clearly been
influenced by the Void

and not far from there

we can see that several vessels have
been captured by Nosk in its lair.

So there might be some hidden passage

between the Abyss and Deepnest

that the vessels were able to navigate
through.

Next

MatPat says that the Pale King was

"taken back to the White Palace to be
raised."

So who exactly raised the Pale King?

Was it the White Lady then?

That's likely her silhouette on the chair,
right?

Does this mean the White Lady is in on
the plan too?

Because if that's the case,

I have a few issues.

First of all,

why doesn't she recognize the Pale King
immediately if she literally raised him?

Why does she call the Knight her spawn?

But my bigger issue here

is what the White Lady says when the
Knight first meets her.

She says,

"One arrives.

"Far it walks to find me.

"Did it seek my aid?

"Or did the path carry it by chance to so
pertinent a place?

"It is true.

"True, that you were awaited.

"No. Perhaps that is inaccurate.

True one like you was awaited."

Pay attention to how she talks.

The White Lady is indeed waiting for a
vessel to come find her,

but not any one vessel in particular.

She says "one like you was awaited."

She is looking for any vessel,

not a specific one.

If she was in on the Pale King's plan,

then why wouldn't she be looking for him
specifically?

And if she isn't in on the plan,

what's the deal with her silhouette on the
chair?

MatPat finishes by saying that the Pale
King was sent away

to avoid succumbing to the infection,

and then was brought back when he was
older.

I don't really have any issues with this
section

but I do have a broader issue with the
theory that I'd like to talk about.

According to the Hollow Knight game manual

the Pale King went into hiding as his
kingdom fell to ruin.

Relic Seeker Lemm mentions that the Pale
King's palace

disappeared without any sign of struggle,

and in the Wanderer's Journal

Ellina mentions that it appears as though
the Pale King took the White Palace

and his court with him when he fled.

So if MatPat's theory is true,

then how does this information fit with
the lore?

Is the game manual just completely wrong,

and what's the deal with the White Palace
disappearing?

If the Pale King didn't use it to hide in,

then why is it even in the dream world?

How exactly did the Pale King get out of
the White Palace

if it had a seal on it?

MatPat doesn't really address any of this,

even though it's probably the most
relevant pieces of information related

to what actually happened to the Pale King

after the Hollow Knight was sealed.

Moving on,

MatPat explains how the line

"No cost too great"

that the Pale King says when you dream
nail him

could be referring to how he sacrificed
himself to become the Knight

and take on the infection himself.

The line is also used at the beginning of
the birthplace memory,

so the first time the Pale King says it,

it's definitely referring to the creation
of the vessels.

But I'm not against the phrase being
recontextualized to mean something else,

I just don't think there's enough evidence
to really prove that.

MatPat then gives more evidence for why
the Knight being a reincarnated Pale King

makes sense.

[MATPAT] The Knight being a reincarnated
Pale King

would explain how a nameless, faceless
knight

is so easily able to accept the
King's Brand item

which outright marks him as a king.

[MOSSBAG] I don't think that's the case.

The King's Brand is guarded by Hornet,

which makes me think that getting the
brand itself isn't hard,

but Hornet doesn't want others getting to
it

unless they can prove their strength
like the Knight did.

We also have Hornet saying this

when she hints for the player
to go to the Kingdom's Edge:

"Seek the Grave in Ash

and the mark it would grant one like you."

"One like you" implies that vessels in
general

are able to receive the mark,

and that makes sense.

Midwife also calls the King's Brand

a "bright mark of relationship,"

which I interpret as saying that the
mark's bearer

is a relation to the Pale King.

On top of that,

the vessels are the children of the
Pale King

so, since he's dead,

any one of them should
be able to become the next king.

Also MatPat keeps referring to the Knight
and the Hollow Knight using male pronouns

but in game they are never given genders.

In fact, Hornet is
called "the gendered child"

just to signify how the rest of the Pale
King's children lack genders.

I assume MatPat is just using male
pronouns for convenience,

but that's no excuse to misgender these
poor bugs.

They have it hard enough.

[MATPAT] It would explain how,

just like the Pale King snapped the bugs
out of their collective stupor

during his lifetime,

our Knight, as you go through the game,

is doing exactly the same thing;

waking up bugs from the infection

and getting them to return to a life in
Dirtmouth.

[MOSSBAG] To be fair,

the Knight only saves two bugs from
the infection:

Sly and Bretta,

and these two are very rare exceptions.

The Knight isn't able to cure any of the
other infected bugs we see.

You'd think that would be easier than
fighting them off.

And of course we can't forget

if the Knight really can snap bugs out
of the infection so easily,

why can't we save Myla?

Did we really fail her that much?

She really deserved better.

[♪ 'For The Damaged Coda' ♪]

(POV: You discover that
mossbag can read your mind--)

On top of that,

the Pale King couldn't snap bugs out of
the infection either.

That was the whole point of the Vessel,

it was the only way the Pale King could
deal with the infection.

[MATPAT] It would explain how
only you and the Pale King

are seen to use the Monarch Wings item.

[MOSSBAG] That's true,

but the Monarch Wings could
probably be worn by any vessel

as long as they had a cape for
the Monarch Flies to morph into.

[MATPAT] And if all of that wasn't
enough to convince you,

in cut dialogue that
was datamined from the game,

if you dream nail the final boss,

the Hollow Knight himself,

it will say this:

"…Father?…"

Doesn't get much more explicit than that.

[MOSSBAG] Okay, so first of all,

this is cut dialogue so it really
should be taken with a grain of salt.

Now I am guilty of doing this a lot myself

and it's a bad habit
that I do need to break.

Second,

just because the Hollow Knight is thinking
about its father,

that doesn't mean it
thinks that the Knight is its father.

Love for its father would probably be the
only thought the Hollow Knight could have,

so it would probably think
that even if the Knight wasn't there.

Look at the jellyfish in the Fog Canyon,

or the flukes in the Royal Waterways.

They think about
Monomon and the Flukemarm respectively,

without being in the same room as them.

The rest of the video
is just recapping the theory,

with one additional section discussing why
the Pale King left Hallownest.

[MATPAT] He studies the Void

so that he's eventually
able to be reborn with its power,

hatching down in the Abyss,

getting cared for in
the safety of the White Palace,

and then being released
out into the lands beyond Dirtmouth,

a place where canonically bugs lose all
of their memories.

This self-exile for a period of years is
probably for two reasons;

One, his own protection from the Radiance;

and two, losing his memory
helps make him purely hollow.

No memory,

no desire,

no past life.

He's now an empty vessel

so that should it come down to it

he can now be the one
to take on the Hollow Knight's place.

[MOSSBAG] I don't really have any
problems with this section

that I haven't brought up already,

other than that it begs the question of

how exactly the
Void Heart fits into all this.

Hornet mentions multiple times that the
Knight needs to pursue the deeper truth,

and learn of the
tragedy of its own conception.

She then commends the Knight
on accepting the Void inside itself.

There's nothing about coming to terms with

being the next
reincarnation of the Pale King.

Why is such an important part of the story

completely glossed over
for a different theme

about the Knight coming to
terms with the Void inside itself?

And that's really my biggest problem with
this theory:

it just doesn't congeal with
the lore you see in the game.

Sure,

you could argue that the
Elderbug refers to the Knight as a ghost

because the Knight is literally
the Pale King returning to Hallownest

after years of self-exile.

You could argue
that the Pale King was planning

to turn himself into a Void Creature in
an attempt to deny time and live forever.

And you could probably even find
a way to interpret the birthplace cutscene

so that it doesn't
debunk the entire theory.

(lol)

But do all of these things really feel
like what the game is saying?

Or do they feel like someone is looking
too hard to justify their own theory

despite what evidence,

or lack thereof,

they find in the game.

Now I'd like to reiterate:

my intention with
this video isn't to attack MatPat.

Remember that pinned
comment I mentioned earlier?

Well, since I first wrote this script,

MatPat has replaced
that comment with another one

providing a detailed
critique of his arguments

originally written by Sumwan.

If you don't know who Sumwan is,

she's done a lot for this community

helping update the Wiki to include
detailed and sourced lore sections,

and she's also helped me with my videos

by proofreading my scripts,

so she definitely has a
strong understanding of the lore.

(Sumwan has big chad energy, ngl.)

Seeing MatPat display her detailed
rebuttal in a pinned comment

is really cool,

and it shows that MatPat is
open to criticism about his theories.

So yeah, those are just a few of
the thoughts I had on MatPat's video.

If you're a fan of MatPat,

and didn't really know the lore of
Hollow Knight going into this video,

then hopefully you can see why
our community got a little upset.

This theory really is beyond saving.

Even the Pope couldn't resurrect it.

...

That's what the Pope does,

right?

If you're a fan of me,

or just Hollow Knight in general,

then hopefully you can see that MatPat
isn't trying to disrespect this game

or mislead people.

He's been very receptive to the criticism

and you can tell this video
clearly has a lot of love put into it.

I mean, fuck,

I wish my videos
looked half as good as this.

I just now figured out how to use overlays
in Sony Vegas.

Look at this:

… Pretty cool, huh?

If you're not a fan of me,

or Hollow Knight,

or MatPat…

Then what the fuck are you doing here?

Why'd you just watch
this whole fucking video???

All in all, no harm no foul,

and I'm sure that the animation

showing that Hornet
was made of Void was just an accident.

Otherwise I take everything back.

So in conclusion,

I guess this is a really
roundabout way of saying this,

but I suppose the whole point I'm trying
to make here

is that VaatiVidya and
Indeimaus are a couple of

bitch

ass

mother

FUCKERS--