0:00:05.810,0:00:08.530
[MOSSBAG] I am literally[br]shaking and crying right now.

0:00:08.889,0:00:10.909
I can't believe MatPat has done this.

0:00:11.261,0:00:13.381
Is nothing in this world sacred anymore?

0:00:13.645,0:00:16.335
Is no work of art[br]free from this man's grasp?

0:00:16.903,0:00:19.163
Oh god… I can't do this.

0:00:19.908,0:00:23.608
How could MatPat really say all[br]those things about The Canterbury Tales?

0:00:24.064,0:00:26.474
What did Chaucer[br]ever do to deserve this?

0:00:26.851,0:00:30.818
I mean, sure, that deathbed confession[br]right at the end felt pretty contrived,

0:00:30.818,0:00:34.680
but The Wife of Bath's Tale has given us[br]precious insight into the role of women

0:00:34.680,0:00:36.370
during the late middle ages.

0:00:36.734,0:00:39.534
He probably even thinks[br]The Decameron is better written…

0:00:39.784,0:00:40.814
Pathetic.

0:00:41.401,0:00:43.851
Someone has to[br]stand up against this monster.

0:00:44.238,0:00:45.638
Someone has to tear his fu--

0:00:45.638,0:00:46.338
oh shit…

0:00:46.668,0:00:47.788
he gave me a shout-out.

0:00:48.753,0:00:49.763
Um…

0:00:49.783,0:00:50.492
…

0:00:50.493,0:00:51.193
thanks!

0:01:03.530,0:01:06.946
So the Game Theorists have finally put out[br]a Hollow Knight lore video,

0:01:06.946,0:01:10.693
and MatPat himself uttered my name with[br]his own two lips.

0:01:11.295,0:01:15.768
The capitalization in the video is wrong:[br]"MossBag" is supposed to be all lowercase.

0:01:16.114,0:01:19.484
I mean it's literally[br]how I start every video… but that's okay.

0:01:19.824,0:01:20.920
I'm still cool with it.

0:01:21.214,0:01:22.279
Thanks to MatPat,

0:01:22.279,0:01:25.829
my original Hollow Knight lore video[br]finally hit 1,000,000 views.

0:01:26.139,0:01:30.573
And more importantly, I[br]gained over 1,000 new followers on Twitter

0:01:30.573,0:01:32.880
so now even more[br]people can read my reviews of

0:01:32.880,0:01:34.890
each and every[br]episode of King of the Hill.

0:01:35.221,0:01:38.798
It's also great to see a video about[br]Hollow Knight trend on YouTube.

0:01:39.046,0:01:41.376
This community really has come a long way.

0:01:41.674,0:01:43.584
But, as cool as all that is,

0:01:43.584,0:01:46.874
MatPat's theory is… pretty bad.

0:01:47.421,0:01:51.551
Now, I may not have[br]11,000,000 subscribers like MatPat does,

0:01:51.868,0:01:55.018
and no, I've never given[br]a copy of Undertale to the Pope,

0:01:55.231,0:01:58.510
but I did sent the Dalai Lama[br]a copy of my Rick and Morty spec script,

0:01:58.951,0:02:01.461
and I am something of a theorist myself,

0:02:01.461,0:02:05.361
so I think I am qualified[br]to make a response to this new video.

0:02:05.593,0:02:08.833
And no, this isn't[br]some sort of take down video.

0:02:08.970,0:02:12.440
I'm already mortal enemies[br]with VaatiVidya and Indeimaus.

0:02:12.607,0:02:14.907
I don't need a third YouTuber coming after[br]me,

0:02:15.278,0:02:18.468
even if MatPat has defiled the sanctity of[br]our fandom with his

0:02:18.468,0:02:20.124
completely terrible and

0:02:20.124,0:02:21.591
<i>abhorrently offensive</i>…

0:02:22.303,0:02:23.083
Fuck.

0:02:23.558,0:02:24.758
This isn't going well...

0:02:25.360,0:02:26.890
I should just restart the video.

0:02:29.529,0:02:31.929
Here's some context[br]if you're just joining in:

0:02:32.232,0:02:35.552
The Hollow Knight community's[br]reaction to this new video has been...

0:02:35.552,0:02:36.992
pretty negative.

0:02:37.118,0:02:40.158
Mainly because there are[br]a lot of perceived flaws in the theory.

0:02:40.550,0:02:44.580
As a result, there are some people saying[br]that the Hollow Knight fanbase is "toxic."

0:02:45.142,0:02:50.037
And yeah, <i>maybe</i> my initial reaction to[br]MatPat's video could be perceived as...

0:02:50.527,0:02:51.227
... <i>rude?</i>

0:02:51.616,0:02:55.778
But you have to understand that being an[br]asshole is just part of my online schtick.

0:02:56.074,0:02:59.054
It's a completely original[br]and clever concept, I know.

0:02:59.256,0:03:02.246
But in general,[br]I don't think this community is too toxic.

0:03:02.550,0:03:06.416
Some of us are just a little defensive[br]about the lore, that's all.

0:03:06.759,0:03:09.709
But it is important to remember that, at[br]the end of the day,

0:03:09.937,0:03:12.977
MatPat is just a guy who wanted to talk[br]about Hollow Knight,

0:03:13.217,0:03:15.057
and I've got nothing against that.

0:03:15.211,0:03:18.071
It just gives me an excuse to[br]talk about this game even more.

0:03:18.563,0:03:19.756
That being said,

0:03:19.756,0:03:23.870
I reckon it's time to get out the propane[br]and propane accessories, boys and girls...

0:03:23.870,0:03:26.460
because we're about to[br]burn this theory to the ground.

0:03:28.290,0:03:32.290
So if you haven't seen the Game Theorists'[br]video yet, I recommend you check it out.

0:03:32.705,0:03:35.075
I'm going to go[br]through all of MatPat's arguments

0:03:35.239,0:03:37.569
but I'm not going[br]to play his whole video through,

0:03:37.569,0:03:40.825
so you'll have to watch it[br]yourself if you want the full context.

0:03:41.012,0:03:42.624
Then, you can watch this video

0:03:42.624,0:03:45.384
and come to your own[br]conclusion about Hollow Knight's lore.

0:03:45.400,0:03:48.400
The issue on debate here has to do with[br]the nature of the Knight

0:03:48.400,0:03:50.370
and the whereabouts of the Pale King.

0:03:50.683,0:03:55.453
MatPat's theory is that the Knight is[br]actually the Pale King, reincarnated.

0:03:55.725,0:04:00.395
[MATPAT] We are supposedly just another[br]one of those failed experiments,

0:04:00.395,0:04:03.607
except... I don't[br]think that's the case here.

0:04:03.607,0:04:06.015
If you stop and dig through the

0:04:06.015,0:04:08.959
<i>massive</i> amounts of secret lore[br]hidden throughout this game,

0:04:08.959,0:04:12.743
it's my belief that[br]we're <i>not</i> just some random nobody.

0:04:12.743,0:04:15.195
We are, in fact, royalty.

0:04:15.195,0:04:15.963
A king.

0:04:15.963,0:04:17.588
<i>The</i> King, in fact.

0:04:17.588,0:04:22.348
It's my belief that in Hollow Knight,[br]we're playing as the Pale King himself.

0:04:23.105,0:04:24.735
[MOSSBAG] This isn't a new theory.

0:04:24.881,0:04:26.411
It's been around for a while,

0:04:26.411,0:04:29.171
but I've never really talked[br]about it here on this channel.

0:04:29.249,0:04:31.306
There are several[br]problems with this theory,

0:04:31.306,0:04:33.308
the biggest one[br]being the lack of evidence.

0:04:33.405,0:04:36.225
A lot of the evidence that[br]MatPat will present in this video

0:04:36.225,0:04:39.001
can be interpreted in[br]ways that make much more sense

0:04:39.001,0:04:40.711
when put in a different context.

0:04:41.188,0:04:44.438
Second; there are pieces of[br]evidence that contradict this theory.

0:04:44.730,0:04:47.996
You can poke a lot of small[br]holes into MatPat's timeline here,

0:04:48.110,0:04:51.233
and a few bigger ones as well...[br]with the biggest hole being that

0:04:51.233,0:04:54.925
you literally see the Knight[br]with the Pale King, in the same room.

0:04:55.242,0:04:56.766
But I'm getting ahead of myself.

0:04:57.218,0:04:59.268
Let's start with MatPat's first argument:

0:04:59.466,0:05:03.229
The higher being tablets in the King's [br]Pass, which all begin with the phrase,

0:05:03.229,0:05:06.579
"Higher beings, these[br]words are for you alone."

0:05:06.633,0:05:08.603
These tablets are very mysterious,

0:05:08.603,0:05:11.835
and I don't think that there is[br]really a consensus on what they mean.

0:05:11.835,0:05:15.799
One theory I see a lot is that these[br]tablets were left here for the vessels,

0:05:15.799,0:05:17.829
as a way to teach them how to focus SOUL.

0:05:18.153,0:05:22.023
But then why did the Pale King leave a[br]lore tablet like this in the Ancient Basin

0:05:22.023,0:05:23.573
or the Howling Cliffs?

0:05:23.573,0:05:26.530
They don't contain information[br]that would be pertinent to them,

0:05:26.530,0:05:29.810
and some of these tablets seem[br]to predate the creation of the vessels.

0:05:29.893,0:05:32.713
Another theory is that[br]the tablets are addressed to the bugs

0:05:32.713,0:05:35.862
that were granted higher thought[br]through the Pale King's beacon.

0:05:36.419,0:05:40.039
The problem with that theory is that the[br]tablets teach you how to focus SOUL,

0:05:40.039,0:05:42.839
which doesn't seem to be[br]a thing that regular bugs can do.

0:05:43.003,0:05:44.303
At least, not easily.

0:05:44.889,0:05:47.587
Personally I believe this[br]explanation is the correct one,

0:05:47.722,0:05:50.082
but my thoughts[br]on it are super speculative.

0:05:50.331,0:05:53.001
I've linked a document[br]below if you want to check it out.

0:05:53.200,0:05:56.090
So yeah, these tablets[br]are quite mysterious indeed.

0:05:56.319,0:05:57.724
But for MatPat's argument,

0:05:57.724,0:06:00.854
all that really matters[br]is the fact that the Knight can read them,

0:06:00.854,0:06:04.604
even though they are stated[br]as being intended for only higher beings.

0:06:04.886,0:06:08.096
MatPat explains that[br]higher beings are godlike creatures,

0:06:08.096,0:06:12.096
mentioning the Reddit AMA post[br]and the Kingsoul charm description.

0:06:12.161,0:06:13.531
I agree with Matt here.

0:06:13.815,0:06:18.025
He then mentions that pretty much[br]only higher beings can manipulate SOUL.

0:06:18.025,0:06:19.915
[MATPAT] The tablet even says, quote:

0:06:19.915,0:06:23.808
"You shall achieve feats[br]of which others can only dream."

0:06:23.808,0:06:26.118
Again, setting apart SOUL-users

0:06:26.118,0:06:27.318
like our Knight

0:06:27.318,0:06:31.279
from pretty much every other creature[br]that we encounter throughout this game.

0:06:31.279,0:06:34.643
Now, MatPat does say[br]"pretty much every other creature,"

0:06:34.752,0:06:36.402
so I can't say he's wrong,

0:06:36.402,0:06:39.622
but there are examples of[br]creatures that can manipulate SOUL

0:06:39.622,0:06:41.332
that aren't higher beings.

0:06:41.693,0:06:43.903
Two examples of this[br]would be the snail shamans

0:06:43.903,0:06:46.033
and the scholars of the Soul Sanctum.

0:06:46.263,0:06:49.673
The snail shaman gives the[br]Knight the Vengeful Spirit [spell],

0:06:49.855,0:06:53.980
and another SOUL spell can be found near[br]another shaman in the Overgrown Mound.

0:06:54.373,0:06:58.843
The higher being tablet in the King's Pass[br]teaches the Knight how to <i>focus</i> SOUL.

0:06:58.963,0:07:01.733
We see the word "focus"[br]again in the Ancestral Mound,

0:07:01.733,0:07:04.931
where there is a whispering[br]root that gives the Dream Nail dialogue,

0:07:04.931,0:07:06.185
"…Spiral focus…"

0:07:06.500,0:07:10.881
I think this is referring to how the[br]shaman can focus SOUL to cast spells,

0:07:10.881,0:07:12.011
just like the Knight.

0:07:12.115,0:07:16.195
The word "spiral" probably[br]refers to the spiral of the snail shell

0:07:16.195,0:07:17.595
the shaman is wearing.

0:07:17.954,0:07:20.819
Now, the nature of the[br]snail shamans is a little sketchy,

0:07:20.819,0:07:23.090
seemingly tied to the void somehow,

0:07:23.484,0:07:25.564
but I don't think they are higher beings.

0:07:26.028,0:07:30.447
However, the bugs of the Soul[br]Sanctum are definitely not higher beings.

0:07:30.967,0:07:35.227
They were able to learn how to manipulate[br]SOUL through diligent practice and study,

0:07:35.537,0:07:38.707
but as a result their minds have begun[br]to swell and ache…

0:07:38.707,0:07:40.742
so it's not really an ideal situation.

0:07:40.742,0:07:40.992
(YOU DON'T SAY)

0:07:40.992,0:07:42.132
In the Soul Sanctum,

0:07:42.132,0:07:47.042
there's a lore tablet that also mentions[br]their desire to attain a "pure focus,"

0:07:47.042,0:07:49.526
and while they may not have been totally[br]successful,

0:07:49.526,0:07:53.296
these bugs have proven that they were[br]capable of manipulating SOUL.

0:07:53.383,0:07:57.368
And the specific focus ability that the[br]Knight learns from the lore tablet

0:07:57.368,0:08:00.128
is not specific to just this vessel.

0:08:00.193,0:08:01.723
During the Pure Vessel fight,

0:08:01.723,0:08:04.773
the Hollow Knight uses a move that's[br]described in the game's code

0:08:04.773,0:08:06.533
as being a focus ability.

0:08:06.897,0:08:11.007
So this ability doesn't appear to separate[br]the Knight from the other vessels.

0:08:11.416,0:08:15.416
But ultimately, I don't think this really[br]hurts the point MatPat is trying to make:

0:08:15.645,0:08:18.295
that being that[br]the Knight is a higher being.

0:08:18.492,0:08:22.382
[MATPAT] So not only are we reading[br]tablets reserved for higher beings,

0:08:22.382,0:08:26.412
but we're also using skills reserved for[br]the godlike creatures of the world

0:08:26.412,0:08:28.333
on par with the Pale King.

0:08:28.333,0:08:31.983
Does it really sound like[br]we'd just be some failed experiment

0:08:31.983,0:08:34.140
cast into the depths of this world?

0:08:34.140,0:08:37.941
[MOSSBAG] I think it's possible that the[br]Knight is a higher being in some regard,

0:08:37.941,0:08:41.511
but that doesn't mean the Knight has to be[br]a reincarnation of the Pale King.

0:08:41.759,0:08:44.189
The Knight, the Hollow Knight,[br]and the other vessels

0:08:44.189,0:08:47.081
are the offspring of the Pale King and[br]the White Lady.

0:08:47.212,0:08:49.052
There's a lot of evidence for this.

0:08:49.485,0:08:52.735
There's the White Lady, who literally[br]calls the Knight her "spawn;"

0:08:53.093,0:08:56.593
the line "Born of God and Void," from[br]the birthplace cutscene,

0:08:56.593,0:09:00.033
alludes to the vessels being born from[br]the White Lady and the Pale King,

0:09:00.033,0:09:02.293
but then being corrupted by the Void;

0:09:02.798,0:09:06.520
and there's the fact that the Pale King[br]and the White Lady had a quote-unquote…

0:09:06.520,0:09:07.250
<i>"Union."</i>

0:09:07.250,0:09:14.412
[♪ 'Let's Get It On' by Marvin Gaye ♪]

0:09:14.568,0:09:17.728
I don't think MatPat is arguing against[br]this point,

0:09:17.728,0:09:19.829
but calling the[br]Knight a "failed experiment"

0:09:19.829,0:09:21.921
could lead people[br]to believe that the vessels

0:09:21.921,0:09:24.571
really aren't the[br]Pale King's biological children.

0:09:25.052,0:09:27.819
Granted, Grimm does[br]call the Knight a "craft,"

0:09:27.819,0:09:31.296
but this is possibly just referring to how[br]the vessels are a combination

0:09:31.296,0:09:32.961
of the spawn of higher beings

0:09:32.961,0:09:34.977
mixed with the influence of Void.

0:09:35.409,0:09:38.009
Another big piece of[br]evidence for this is the fact that

0:09:38.009,0:09:40.584
the achievement you get[br]for defeating the Hollow Knight

0:09:40.584,0:09:43.321
with Hornet by your side[br]is called "Sealed Siblings."

0:09:43.470,0:09:46.420
This confirms that the Knight and Hornet[br]are siblings,

0:09:46.629,0:09:49.249
and we know that Hornet is the daughter of[br]the Pale King

0:09:49.249,0:09:53.069
since the White Lady mentions that the[br]Pale King had sex with Hera the Beast.

0:09:53.069,0:09:55.079
[♪ 'Let's Get It On" by Marvin Gaye ♪]

0:09:55.079,0:09:57.075
Not only does this strengthen the argument

0:09:57.075,0:09:59.895
that the vessels were the literal children[br]of the Pale King,

0:09:59.895,0:10:02.752
but it also pretty much confirms that the[br]Knight <i>specifically</i>

0:10:02.752,0:10:04.101
is a child of the Pale King.

0:10:04.518,0:10:07.277
Which, by the way, debunks MatPat's[br]whole theory.

0:10:07.838,0:10:09.809
… So I guess we could end the video now.

0:10:09.809,0:10:12.422
[♪ 'Obstacle Course'[br]Yoshi's Island SSBU Ver. ♪]

0:10:12.422,0:10:13.672
As I was saying,

0:10:13.672,0:10:16.529
being the literal children[br]of two higher beings would suggest

0:10:16.529,0:10:19.959
that the Knight and all the other[br]vessels are also higher beings as well.

0:10:20.195,0:10:22.432
This is hinted at for the Hollow Knight at[br]least

0:10:22.432,0:10:24.832
in the hunters journal entry for the[br]Pure Vessel,

0:10:24.832,0:10:27.162
which mentions that it has a "holy shell."

0:10:27.263,0:10:30.673
So I don't think this attribute separates[br]the Knight as being unique

0:10:30.673,0:10:32.383
compared to the other vessels.

0:10:32.519,0:10:35.729
This is an argument you're going to hear[br]me use a lot in this video.

0:10:35.729,0:10:39.309
A lot of the connections MatPat makes[br]between the Knight and the Pale King

0:10:39.309,0:10:43.309
can be explained by remembering that the[br]Knight is the Pale King's child.

0:10:43.515,0:10:45.515
The reason we should interpret it this way

0:10:45.515,0:10:49.325
is because the game explicitly <i>tells</i> us[br]that the Knight is the Pale King's child,

0:10:49.325,0:10:52.815
while there really isn't anything telling[br]us that they're the same person.

0:10:53.006,0:10:56.894
After this argument, MatPat brings up the[br]very beginning of the game:

0:10:56.894,0:10:58.984
The "Elegy For Hallownest."

0:10:59.091,0:11:03.091
MatPat first mentions that the poem itself[br]isn't about Hallownest

0:11:03.091,0:11:05.111
but is instead about the Pale King.

0:11:05.111,0:11:06.874
[MATPAT] You don't know it[br]when you start the game,

0:11:06.874,0:11:09.648
but this poem is about the Pale King.

0:11:09.648,0:11:12.906
[MOSSBAG] So this poem is called "Elegy[br]For Hallownest"

0:11:12.906,0:11:16.192
but the poem itself seems to be addressed[br]to a person,

0:11:16.192,0:11:18.322
so it's not a stretch to think that the [br]poem is

0:11:18.322,0:11:20.152
actually talking about the Pale King.

0:11:20.358,0:11:22.358
Hallownest is the Pale King's kingdom,

0:11:22.358,0:11:26.248
and everything that Hallownest offered to[br]travellers was because of the Pale King.

0:11:26.395,0:11:30.539
The two are so closely entwined that the[br]poem is pretty much saying the same thing

0:11:30.539,0:11:34.166
regardless of if its addressed to the[br]personified version of Hallownest

0:11:34.166,0:11:35.886
or to the Pale King himself.

0:11:36.079,0:11:39.549
MatPat then goes into what the[br]poem means when it says that the Pale King

0:11:39.549,0:11:42.702
"tamed savage souls[br]and redeemed base instincts."

0:11:42.790,0:11:44.643
[MATPAT] In the beginning of the game's[br]lore,

0:11:44.643,0:11:49.153
all bugs were basically a hivemind[br]controlled by the moth god, Radiance.

0:11:49.153,0:11:52.633
The Pale King was the one who expanded[br]the minds of bugs,

0:11:52.633,0:11:55.263
giving them individuality and sapience,

0:11:55.263,0:11:57.261
showing them, as the poem says,

0:11:57.261,0:11:59.501
"a world that they had never dreamed."

0:11:59.551,0:12:03.111
[MOSSBAG] There really isn't any evidence[br]that the Radiance's control was widespread

0:12:03.111,0:12:04.851
before the Pale King's arrival.

0:12:05.282,0:12:06.862
I'm not saying it's impossible,

0:12:06.862,0:12:11.232
but another possibility is that the bugs[br]didn't have individuality or sapience

0:12:11.232,0:12:13.305
because they were living in a wasteland

0:12:13.305,0:12:15.415
similar to what we[br]see outside of Hallownest.

0:12:15.688,0:12:19.598
Those bugs don't have minds, as it would[br]be a weakness out in the wild,

0:12:19.598,0:12:22.338
but when the Pale King showed up, he[br]established a kingdom

0:12:22.338,0:12:24.688
and expanded the minds of these bugs.

0:12:25.056,0:12:27.326
He also drew the[br]attention of the moth tribe,

0:12:27.326,0:12:29.516
who were at the[br]time worshipping the Radiance

0:12:29.516,0:12:31.648
but ended up yeeting her out of their[br]memory,

0:12:31.648,0:12:33.198
causing her to be sealed away.

0:12:33.198,0:12:35.873
The infection and the hivemind might have[br]been the result

0:12:35.873,0:12:37.483
of the Radiance's imprisonment.

0:12:37.583,0:12:42.003
As the Moss Prophet explains, "To stifle[br]that light is to suppress nature.

0:12:42.003,0:12:44.803
Nature suppressed distorts, plagues us."

0:12:44.895,0:12:47.033
This implies that the infection is a[br]byproduct

0:12:47.033,0:12:48.853
of the Radiance being sealed away.

0:12:49.015,0:12:51.945
This makes more sense to me than the[br]Radiance already having bugs

0:12:51.945,0:12:55.945
enslaved in a hivemind, and then the Pale[br]King just strolled in and saved them.

0:12:56.001,0:12:58.743
I mean if you look at what is happening in[br]this animation…

0:12:58.743,0:13:00.888
it doesn't really make sense, does it?

0:13:00.888,0:13:03.278
If the Pale King can[br]just cure infection like this,

0:13:03.278,0:13:06.608
then what's the point of all the stuff[br]that happens later with the vessels?

0:13:06.608,0:13:11.608
[MATPAT] It's important to note, too, that[br]this isn't just a poem <i>about</i> the Pale King

0:13:11.608,0:13:14.102
but it's directed <i>to</i> the Pale King.

0:13:14.102,0:13:15.082
"<i>Your</i> name."

0:13:15.082,0:13:16.452
"<i>You</i> the challenge met."

0:13:16.452,0:13:19.181
And then what do we see appear on screen[br]just moments later?

0:13:19.181,0:13:19.944
Our Knight.

0:13:19.944,0:13:22.944
It would be one thing if the poem was just[br]about the Pale King,

0:13:22.944,0:13:25.004
but the fact that it's directed at him

0:13:25.004,0:13:27.390
just seconds before[br]we actually see our character

0:13:27.390,0:13:28.939
makes it seem like the designers

0:13:28.939,0:13:31.769
are drawing a parallel between this king[br]of legend

0:13:31.769,0:13:34.489
and our first appearance on screen.

0:13:34.489,0:13:37.413
We are the "you" in that poem.

0:13:37.669,0:13:40.469
[MOSSBAG] … Except there's a whole other[br]cutscene in between this poem

0:13:40.469,0:13:41.830
and when we see the Knight.

0:13:41.898,0:13:45.008
By this logic, this means that the <i>Hollow[br]Knight</i> is the Pale King.

0:13:45.176,0:13:48.857
I mean technically we do see Zote moments[br]after this poem.

0:13:48.857,0:13:52.857
A few <i>thousand</i> moments, maybe… but the[br]principle still applies.

0:13:53.192,0:13:57.734
But even if the intro cutscene with the[br]Knight appeared right after the poem,

0:13:57.734,0:13:59.864
I still wouldn't find it very compelling.

0:14:00.139,0:14:02.259
I mean, we are entering Hallownest,

0:14:02.259,0:14:04.818
and the poem is talking about Hallownest

0:14:04.818,0:14:06.792
or at least the person who built it,

0:14:06.792,0:14:09.612
so why does the Knight have to be factored[br]into this at all?

0:14:09.708,0:14:11.278
Let's move on to Elderbug.

0:14:11.278,0:14:14.722
There are a lot of places you can look to[br]find information about the Pale King…

0:14:14.722,0:14:16.532
The Elderbug is not one of them.

0:14:16.847,0:14:20.330
As you'll see, I don't think MatPat's[br]interpretations of Elderbug's dialogue

0:14:20.330,0:14:21.800
makes any sense.

0:14:22.095,0:14:24.635
MatPat argues that Elderbug's dialogue[br]about dreams

0:14:24.635,0:14:27.015
hints at the Knight being the Pale King.

0:14:27.198,0:14:30.624
[MATPAT] The usage of the[br]word "dreams" is important,

0:14:30.624,0:14:33.961
since at the beginning of the game, not[br]knowing the lore of this world,

0:14:33.961,0:14:38.911
we all assume it's just our knight[br]pursuing the dream of wealth or fame,

0:14:38.911,0:14:40.619
just like the Elderbug says.

0:14:40.619,0:14:45.008
But late in the game we get ourselves an[br]item called the Dream Nail,

0:14:45.008,0:14:47.067
which is how we[br]unlock memories of the past,

0:14:47.067,0:14:50.380
and ultimately defeat the Radiance inside[br]the mind of Hollow Knight.

0:14:50.380,0:14:54.290
It's also the tool that allows us to find[br]the Pale King's White Palace.

0:14:54.290,0:14:57.790
It is a place that is[br]literally hidden in dreams.

0:14:57.790,0:15:01.260
So like Elderbug says, we are[br]seeking our dreams

0:15:01.260,0:15:03.839
in perhaps a very literal sense,

0:15:03.839,0:15:07.859
which is especially true if we are playing[br]as the Pale King.

0:15:08.175,0:15:10.955
[MOSSBAG] The Knight goes to a lot of[br]different places in the dream world,

0:15:10.955,0:15:13.504
so I don't know what[br]makes the White Palace so special.

0:15:13.674,0:15:17.184
This interpretation also ignores the rest[br]of the Elderbug's dialogue.

0:15:17.504,0:15:21.504
Elderbug goes on to warn about the[br]infection below, and finishes by saying,

0:15:21.504,0:15:24.384
"Perhaps dreams aren't[br]such great things after all."

0:15:24.569,0:15:27.439
This dialogue makes sense if we link it[br]back to the Radiance.

0:15:27.771,0:15:31.141
The Radiance's infection begins by[br]plaguing the dreams of a bug

0:15:31.141,0:15:33.311
until their will becomes enslaved.

0:15:33.311,0:15:36.514
In fact, the achievement unlocked for[br]beating the Radiance is called

0:15:36.514,0:15:37.614
"Dream No More."

0:15:37.935,0:15:41.005
So I think this line makes much more sense[br]if we interpret it as being

0:15:41.005,0:15:42.595
a warning about the Radiance.

0:15:42.912,0:15:45.582
If we interpret those extra lines using[br]MatPat's reading,

0:15:45.582,0:15:49.691
then the Elderbug is telling us not to go[br]to the White Palace, I guess?

0:15:49.959,0:15:53.461
Now, it's worth noting that the Elderbug[br]mentions dreams again,

0:15:53.461,0:15:56.381
when you dream nail him[br]after giving him the Delicate Flower,

0:15:56.381,0:16:00.121
remarking, "Perhaps dreams[br]aren't such bad things after all…"

0:16:00.433,0:16:03.733
I think this just shows how the Knight has[br]restored hope in Elderbug,

0:16:03.733,0:16:06.503
similar to how it restores hope for[br]Hallownest…

0:16:06.909,0:16:08.459
or something like that.

0:16:08.660,0:16:11.400
MatPat's next point has to do with the[br]Elderbug's dialogue

0:16:11.400,0:16:13.880
if you initially ignore[br]him at the start of the game,

0:16:14.259,0:16:15.629
and then come back.

0:16:15.669,0:16:17.799
He'll mention that[br]he thought he saw a ghost.

0:16:18.153,0:16:22.593
[MATPAT] If we are indeed the Pale King[br]returning to a land that we once abandoned

0:16:22.593,0:16:25.713
we would indeed be a ghost from the past.

0:16:25.713,0:16:29.413
It's another potentially really clever[br]play on words that I appreciated.

0:16:29.413,0:16:31.196
Am I reading too much into this?

0:16:31.196,0:16:35.266
Maybe, but again this is clearly a team [br]who has themselves a literary flair,

0:16:35.266,0:16:38.506
and who like to make you really think[br]about the words that they're using.

0:16:38.756,0:16:41.196
[MOSSBAG] So MatPat's reading too much[br]into this.

0:16:41.599,0:16:44.829
Now, to be fair, the word "ghost" might[br]actually be hinting at

0:16:44.829,0:16:46.479
the Knight's true nature.

0:16:46.772,0:16:50.112
The word ghost is only used nine other[br]times in the game,

0:16:50.208,0:16:52.878
all of which are from Hornet when talking[br]to the Knight.

0:16:53.024,0:16:55.995
Hornet calls the Knight a "ghost" because[br]it is the dead shell

0:16:55.995,0:16:58.325
of a child of the Pale King and [br]White Lady

0:16:58.325,0:17:01.125
that has been[br]hollowed out and animated by Void.

0:17:01.239,0:17:04.209
So maybe Elderbug's dialogue is alluding[br]to that,

0:17:04.329,0:17:08.039
but I still think this is just a common[br]expression the Elderbug is using.

0:17:08.267,0:17:11.623
The next part of MatPat's video has to do[br]with how the Knight is recognized

0:17:11.623,0:17:14.566
by a few different people as being[br]related to the King.

0:17:14.908,0:17:16.568
First up is the White Lady:

0:17:16.769,0:17:19.344
[MATPAT] During one of your interactions[br]with the White Lady,

0:17:19.344,0:17:20.400
AKA the Queen,

0:17:20.400,0:17:22.110
she outright says to the Knight,

0:17:22.110,0:17:24.161
"Is it more than just a vessel?

0:17:24.161,0:17:27.691
I feel like once again I am[br]in the presence of my beloved Wyrm."

0:17:27.691,0:17:29.861
Wyrm being another name for the Pale King.

0:17:30.020,0:17:32.882
[MOSSBAG] This dialogue only appears[br]within a certain context

0:17:32.882,0:17:34.650
that MatPat fails to mention.

0:17:35.137,0:17:38.557
This dialogue is triggered after[br]the Knight collects the Kingsoul charm.

0:17:38.769,0:17:42.569
This charm is described as symbolizing a[br]union between two higher beings,

0:17:42.569,0:17:46.179
and pieces of this charm can be found in[br]the possession of both the White Lady

0:17:46.179,0:17:47.789
and the Pale King's corpse.

0:17:48.474,0:17:51.484
So part of this charm literally came from[br]the Pale King,

0:17:51.650,0:17:54.384
which means it's no surprise that the[br]White Lady thinks of him

0:17:54.384,0:17:57.214
when the Knight has it, and only[br]when the Knight has it.

0:17:57.589,0:18:01.329
Also, when talking to the White Lady with[br]the Grimmchild charm fully upgraded,

0:18:01.329,0:18:02.449
she says this:

0:18:02.548,0:18:07.468
"Success then for the scarlet heart, and[br]irony to use my spawn to grow its own."

0:18:07.968,0:18:10.176
She literally calls the Knight her "spawn"

0:18:10.176,0:18:12.976
so I don't think the Knight[br]is supposed to be her husband.

0:18:13.258,0:18:16.158
Now don't get me wrong, I'm into some[br]kinky shit,

0:18:16.158,0:18:18.608
but even I think that's too much, man.

0:18:18.764,0:18:20.791
[MATPAT] And she's not the only one who[br]gets

0:18:20.791,0:18:23.041
kingly vibes from the Player Character.

0:18:23.041,0:18:24.311
The White Defender,

0:18:24.311,0:18:26.479
one of the Pale King's five main knights,

0:18:26.479,0:18:29.183
also has interesting dialogue. Quote:

0:18:29.183,0:18:32.355
"Your noble bearing[br]reminds me of our dear King."

0:18:32.355,0:18:34.515
So that's two of the King's closest[br]relations

0:18:34.520,0:18:38.030
being reminded of their dearly departed[br]when they interact with us.

0:18:38.131,0:18:41.376
[MOSSBAG] You don't need to have the[br]Kingsoul to fight the White Defender,

0:18:41.376,0:18:44.676
but notice how toned down this line is[br]from what the White Lady said.

0:18:45.042,0:18:49.189
The White Defender says the Knight reminds[br]him of the Pale King, which makes sense,

0:18:49.189,0:18:52.679
considering the fact that[br]the Knight is the child of the Pale King.

0:18:53.053,0:18:56.803
Matt then mentions the royal retainers,[br]and how they bow to the Knight.

0:18:56.803,0:18:59.533
[MATPAT] Ten out of ten royal retainers[br]can't be wrong:

0:18:59.533,0:19:03.093
you are royalty, plain and simple.

0:19:03.240,0:19:05.032
[MOSSBAG] Now some[br]people in the comments section

0:19:05.032,0:19:08.251
were arguing that they only bow if the[br]Knight has the King's Brand,

0:19:08.531,0:19:09.963
but that's not true.

0:19:09.963,0:19:11.343
They bow regardless.

0:19:11.542,0:19:15.302
This is an argument I've seen a lot from[br]the people who disagree with MatPat:

0:19:15.387,0:19:18.072
That most of the characters being reminded[br]of the Pale King

0:19:18.072,0:19:19.352
when looking at the Knight

0:19:19.352,0:19:21.412
can be explained via the King's Brand.

0:19:21.412,0:19:23.432
But you can reach the White Defender

0:19:23.432,0:19:24.461
and the White Palace

0:19:24.461,0:19:26.071
without the King's Brand.

0:19:26.141,0:19:27.811
To my knowledge, the only character

0:19:27.811,0:19:29.863
confirmed to explicitly mistake the Knight

0:19:29.863,0:19:32.043
for the Pale King due to the King's Brand

0:19:32.043,0:19:33.643
is Eternal Emelitia.

0:19:33.775,0:19:37.110
But it doesn't really matter that the[br]Knight doesn't have the King's Brand,

0:19:37.110,0:19:40.280
because you can still argue that the[br]royal retainers are bowing

0:19:40.280,0:19:42.500
because the Knight[br]is related to the Pale King.

0:19:42.838,0:19:46.198
There are statues of the Hollow Knight in[br]the White Palace, after all.

0:19:46.198,0:19:49.655
Which could mean that they revered the[br]vessels as well as the Pale King,

0:19:49.655,0:19:53.215
but there are a lot of questions[br]surrounding the royal retainers.

0:19:53.287,0:19:54.647
If you dream nail them,

0:19:54.647,0:19:56.747
they appear to be[br]talking to the Pale King.

0:19:56.845,0:19:59.705
They mention things like,[br]"… We will wait… King…"

0:19:59.705,0:20:02.865
and, "…King… Your troubles… Let us…"

0:20:02.865,0:20:06.522
Another detail worth mentioning is that[br]the royal retainers explode into essence

0:20:06.522,0:20:07.522
when they are killed,

0:20:07.522,0:20:09.142
leaving no corpse behind.

0:20:09.142,0:20:10.882
So what should we make of this?

0:20:11.267,0:20:13.297
It seems to me like these bugs are unaware

0:20:13.297,0:20:14.597
that the Pale King is dead,

0:20:14.597,0:20:17.034
and are awaiting him to take some sort of[br]action,

0:20:17.034,0:20:18.994
but are worried about his state of mind.

0:20:19.358,0:20:23.358
The dream nail dialogue doesn't imply that[br]they recognize the Knight as the Pale King

0:20:23.358,0:20:24.858
who has finally returned,

0:20:24.858,0:20:28.248
but again there's something weird going[br]on with these guys.

0:20:28.566,0:20:30.546
They seem to be living in the past,

0:20:30.546,0:20:32.816
and are not really[br]in a lucid state of mind.

0:20:33.136,0:20:37.103
So yeah, I think there's a lot of[br]mystery surrounding these guys,

0:20:37.103,0:20:38.773
but to sum this section up:

0:20:38.773,0:20:40.983
I still agree with MatPat's point here,

0:20:40.983,0:20:43.183
that being that the Knight is royalty.

0:20:43.539,0:20:47.009
But again, that doesn't help prove this[br]reincarnation theory,

0:20:47.009,0:20:49.189
because we know that the Knight is royalty

0:20:49.189,0:20:51.469
through it being the Pale King's child.

0:20:51.749,0:20:53.469
MatPat then goes into a discussion

0:20:53.469,0:20:56.142
about how the Pale[br]King went from his first Wyrm form

0:20:56.362,0:20:58.082
into his second bug form.

0:20:58.291,0:20:59.834
This occurred at Kingdom's Edge,

0:20:59.834,0:21:01.834
where the Wyrm's[br]corpse can still be found.

0:21:02.225,0:21:05.735
A fat-ass caterpillar named Bardoon[br]explains that when Wyrms die,

0:21:05.735,0:21:07.093
they don't just die

0:21:07.093,0:21:09.473
but actually transform[br]into something else.

0:21:09.664,0:21:13.182
[MATPAT] So Bardoon knows the Pale King[br]spawned out of the Wyrm,

0:21:13.182,0:21:15.415
he clearly says that[br]the kingdom is his doing,

0:21:15.415,0:21:17.865
but this line of "more transformation"

0:21:17.865,0:21:20.225
seems to imply that the Pale King's death

0:21:20.225,0:21:23.305
would only lead to yet another form.

0:21:23.305,0:21:26.255
Do we think that Team Cherry put this line[br]in here for no reason?

0:21:26.255,0:21:28.005
I THINK NOT.

0:21:28.005,0:21:30.555
[MOSSBAG] Bardoon isn't saying[br]"more transformation"

0:21:30.555,0:21:32.818
as in there'll be another transformation.

0:21:33.100,0:21:34.798
He's saying that death, for a Wyrm,

0:21:34.798,0:21:36.708
is more <i>like</i> a transformation.

0:21:36.708,0:21:40.059
Now is there anything in the game[br]that says the Pale King can or cannot

0:21:40.059,0:21:41.679
transform a second time?

0:21:41.936,0:21:43.036
… Well, no.

0:21:43.290,0:21:46.387
But we don't really have any proof that[br]the Pale King <i>did</i> transform

0:21:46.387,0:21:47.613
into a third form.

0:21:47.613,0:21:49.377
Let's look at the egg that the Pale King

0:21:49.377,0:21:50.967
hatched out of from the Wyrm.

0:21:51.284,0:21:55.778
Page 111 of the Wanderer's[br]Journal discusses this transition:

0:21:56.260,0:21:58.750
"What happened to the Wyrm from there[br]is a mystery;

0:21:58.750,0:22:00.670
"it doesn't appear to have died there,

0:22:00.670,0:22:03.280
"so perhaps it shed its gargantuan form

0:22:03.280,0:22:05.510
"and became something entirely different.

0:22:05.510,0:22:07.230
"Deep within the maw of the carcass,

0:22:07.230,0:22:10.590
a pale, broken egg of some sort hints at[br]such a rebirth."

0:22:10.902,0:22:13.364
This implies that the Pale King hatched[br]out of the egg

0:22:13.364,0:22:15.414
inside the cast-off shell of the Wyrm.

0:22:15.746,0:22:18.926
So how exactly does the Pale King's third[br]form materialize?

0:22:19.280,0:22:20.990
We find his corpse on the throne,

0:22:20.990,0:22:24.030
but we can't go inside of him to check if[br]there's another egg in there somewhere.

0:22:24.304,0:22:26.854
There's the egg on the right hand side of[br]the room,

0:22:26.854,0:22:30.244
but that doesn't really seem like[br]something a creature would hatch from.

0:22:30.244,0:22:33.697
It was probably even made before the Pale[br]King's second form died,

0:22:33.697,0:22:36.371
since it appears to be written from his[br]perspective.

0:22:36.371,0:22:38.681
But MatPat has his own theory about all[br]this,

0:22:38.681,0:22:40.871
so let's table this discussion for now.

0:22:40.950,0:22:43.910
After talking about how the Pale King[br]might have a third form,

0:22:44.127,0:22:46.507
MatPat begins to explain what Void is,

0:22:46.507,0:22:48.387
where it's found, and how it works.

0:22:48.578,0:22:52.070
He draws our attention to the lore[br]tablet found in the Pale King's workshop.

0:22:52.070,0:22:55.010
This tablet explains that the Void is[br]opposed to the Pale King,

0:22:55.010,0:22:58.210
but that Void contains a power to deny[br]time itself.

0:22:58.369,0:22:59.820
[MATPAT] This quote is interesting.

0:22:59.820,0:23:01.531
Based on the clues in that workroom,

0:23:01.531,0:23:03.207
as well as the game's bestiary,

0:23:03.207,0:23:06.577
we know that the Pale King was using void[br]to create soldiers:

0:23:06.577,0:23:09.910
the Kingsmoulds and Wingmoulds that[br]populate his White Palace.

0:23:09.910,0:23:12.320
We also know that he was using Void to[br]create

0:23:12.320,0:23:14.980
the vessels intended[br]to trap the infection.

0:23:14.980,0:23:16.380
Vessels like the Hollow Knight,

0:23:16.380,0:23:18.316
which would also include our character.

0:23:18.316,0:23:21.706
But this quote is referencing him using[br]the Void for yet another purpose.

0:23:21.706,0:23:23.036
A third purpose;

0:23:23.036,0:23:24.306
not fighting the Radiance;

0:23:24.306,0:23:25.786
not protecting his castle;

0:23:25.786,0:23:28.658
but instead fighting time itself.

0:23:28.658,0:23:32.530
He wants to use the Void to achieve[br]eternal life.

0:23:32.530,0:23:33.393
For himself?

0:23:33.393,0:23:34.263
For his kingdom?

0:23:34.263,0:23:35.133
It's unclear,

0:23:35.133,0:23:38.033
but it once again gives credence to the[br]idea that,

0:23:38.033,0:23:39.313
in his next life,

0:23:39.313,0:23:43.199
he would choose to rebirth himself as a[br]Void-based creature.

0:23:43.199,0:23:45.847
One not bound by the restrictions of time.

0:23:45.847,0:23:48.117
One just like our Knight.

0:23:48.117,0:23:50.417
[MOSSBAG] I kind of agree with a little[br]bit of this…

0:23:50.417,0:23:51.517
but not really.

0:23:52.022,0:23:55.152
I think the purpose of "denying time"[br]refers to the Radiance,

0:23:55.152,0:23:56.822
who the Pale King is trying to stop

0:23:56.822,0:23:59.272
in order to keep his kingdom lasting[br]eternally.

0:23:59.539,0:24:02.039
There are several bits of dialogue to look[br]over here.

0:24:02.299,0:24:06.939
Both Hornet and the Hive Queen Vespa refer[br]to Hallownest as being in "perpetuation."

0:24:07.094,0:24:09.434
Or, in other words, "frozen in time."

0:24:09.702,0:24:12.852
Monomon calls Hallownest[br]"a world forever unchanging."

0:24:13.146,0:24:16.666
Both Hornet and the Mask Maker mention[br]that the kingdom is in stasis.

0:24:17.010,0:24:20.470
And then we have the dialogue directly[br]connecting all this to the Hollow Knight.

0:24:20.754,0:24:23.054
The monuments to the Hollow Knight and[br]the Dreamers

0:24:23.054,0:24:24.934
mention that through their actions

0:24:24.934,0:24:26.354
Hallownest lasts eternal.

0:24:26.593,0:24:29.137
The lore tablet in the White Palace[br]throne room reads,

0:24:29.137,0:24:32.647
"Eternity in promise and charge in progeny[br]cursed."

0:24:32.952,0:24:35.062
This line is likely referring to how the [br]Pale King

0:24:35.062,0:24:37.167
planned to keep his kingdom lasting[br]eternally

0:24:37.167,0:24:39.622
by somehow cursing his descendants.

0:24:39.622,0:24:41.413
And that's exactly what he did:

0:24:41.413,0:24:43.323
the Hollow Knight is described by Hornet

0:24:43.323,0:24:45.173
as being "our birth-cursed sibling,"

0:24:45.362,0:24:49.257
and Hornet has dream nail dialogue during[br]the Greenpath fight that reads,

0:24:49.257,0:24:51.657
"Only pity for your cursed kind."

0:24:51.885,0:24:54.295
All of this is done to hold back the[br]Radiance.

0:24:54.471,0:24:57.791
The Radiance is alluded to as being a[br]force of nature by Bardoon,

0:24:57.791,0:24:58.761
the Moss Prophet,

0:24:58.761,0:25:00.181
and Hive Queen Vespa.

0:25:00.372,0:25:02.515
The Radiance is the inevitable dawn

0:25:02.515,0:25:04.765
that will eventually[br]break over the horizon.

0:25:04.978,0:25:07.028
Now dev notes aren't necessarily canon,

0:25:07.028,0:25:10.385
but there are also dev notes explaining[br]that the kingdom is in stasis,

0:25:10.385,0:25:13.695
and that the events of Hollow Knight take[br]place over one long night.

0:25:13.971,0:25:15.251
So to recap:

0:25:15.251,0:25:18.691
the "deny time" line from the[br]tablet in the Pale King's workshop

0:25:18.691,0:25:22.111
is probably referring to how the Pale King[br]planned to create a Vessel

0:25:22.111,0:25:24.991
that could be used[br]to deny the arrival of the Radiance,

0:25:24.991,0:25:28.111
placing all of Hallownest[br]in some kind of stasis.

0:25:28.251,0:25:31.285
Nothing implies that the Pale King was[br]doing this to himself.

0:25:31.285,0:25:34.597
I would argue that Void could never give[br]the Pale King eternal life;

0:25:34.597,0:25:36.337
the Void is the power opposed,

0:25:36.337,0:25:39.287
so it would probably kill him if he tried[br]to fuse with it.

0:25:39.624,0:25:43.204
After all, we know that the vessels were[br]killed by the Void,

0:25:43.204,0:25:45.484
since the White Lady mentions that the[br]Knight died

0:25:45.484,0:25:47.304
in the birthplace where it was born.

0:25:47.438,0:25:50.138
[MATPAT] Making this connection even more[br]interesting

0:25:50.138,0:25:51.058
are the eggs.

0:25:51.058,0:25:52.728
Just outside the[br]Pale King's throne room

0:25:52.728,0:25:55.438
is a lore tablet[br]housed inside of a black egg.

0:25:55.438,0:25:58.118
A tablet that speaks of the ancient Wyrm

0:25:58.118,0:25:59.515
becoming the Pale King.

0:25:59.515,0:26:04.415
It seems to suggest that this egg here is[br]where version 1.0 of the Pale King

0:26:04.415,0:26:07.395
hatched into its[br]upgraded form… as it were.

0:26:07.395,0:26:10.633
And now look at the birthplace of our[br]Knight down in the Abyss:

0:26:10.633,0:26:12.293
a similar black egg.

0:26:12.293,0:26:15.392
Could it be where version 2.0 transformed[br]yet again?

0:26:15.566,0:26:18.719
[MOSSBAG] I don't believe the[br]phrase "The Wyrm becomes beacon"

0:26:18.719,0:26:21.229
is talking about[br]the Pale King's transformation.

0:26:21.229,0:26:25.069
I think this sentence is about how the[br]Pale King expanded the minds of bugs.

0:26:25.123,0:26:28.823
Basically, the Pale King was able to grant[br]bugs sapience through his beacon,

0:26:28.823,0:26:31.373
but we don't really[br]have a lot of information on this.

0:26:31.492,0:26:35.492
If I had to guess, I'd say it might be[br]some sort of metaphysical power.

0:26:35.821,0:26:39.171
The word beacon is used only[br]one other time in the whole game,

0:26:39.171,0:26:40.721
and it's by the Godseeker.

0:26:40.721,0:26:42.941
She says, "Even long departed,

0:26:42.941,0:26:46.171
"we feel the afterglow of[br]the God-power that sat this throne…

0:26:46.171,0:26:48.051
"It lays heavy upon this kingdom.

0:26:48.051,0:26:51.692
"That lingering power alone was[br]beacon enough to draw Us to Hallownest.

0:26:51.692,0:26:54.982
How bright it must have been to mortal[br]bug stood before it."

0:26:55.157,0:26:57.627
So the afterglow of[br]the Pale King's God-power

0:26:57.627,0:26:59.947
acted as a beacon for the Godseekers.

0:27:00.254,0:27:03.874
Is this the same concept as the beacon[br]mentioned in the lore tablet?

0:27:03.874,0:27:05.864
MatPat appears to think "beacon"

0:27:05.864,0:27:08.694
is another name[br]for the Pale King's smaller form,

0:27:09.003,0:27:10.803
which I guess is possible,

0:27:10.803,0:27:12.613
but it's kind of a weird name.

0:27:13.026,0:27:14.664
When I see this,

0:27:14.664,0:27:16.364
I don't really think of this.

0:27:16.528,0:27:19.068
I'm a little[br]confused by MatPat's next point.

0:27:19.317,0:27:20.385
Like I said earlier,

0:27:20.385,0:27:23.381
there's evidence to suggest that the egg[br]the Pale King was hatched from

0:27:23.381,0:27:25.151
is found in the cast-off shell

0:27:25.151,0:27:26.311
in Kingdom's Edge.

0:27:26.630,0:27:29.673
Here, MatPat is arguing that the egg in[br]the throne room

0:27:29.673,0:27:31.553
is what the Pale King hatched from.

0:27:31.553,0:27:33.132
What's confusing to me is that

0:27:33.132,0:27:36.163
earlier in the video, it's implied that[br]the cast-off shell egg

0:27:36.163,0:27:38.173
<i>was</i> what the Pale King hatched from.

0:27:38.236,0:27:40.486
[MATPAT] It is clearly established in the[br]lore

0:27:40.486,0:27:43.206
that the King has[br]the ability to transform.

0:27:43.206,0:27:47.206
In fact, the Pale King form is actually[br]his version 2.0.

0:27:47.232,0:27:49.361
[MOSSBAG] I don't know if there was some[br]miscommunication

0:27:49.361,0:27:51.382
between MatPat and one of his editors,

0:27:51.382,0:27:53.458
or if there was[br]a script change or something,

0:27:53.458,0:27:55.918
but I figured I'd point this out because…

0:27:55.918,0:27:56.618
It's…

0:27:56.618,0:27:57.318
<i>weird.</i>

0:27:57.588,0:27:59.078
The video gets it right initially,

0:27:59.078,0:28:01.558
but then contradicts itself a few minutes[br]later.

0:28:01.958,0:28:04.508
So it seems unlikely that the Pale King[br]was hatched

0:28:04.508,0:28:06.028
from the egg in the throne room,

0:28:06.028,0:28:08.268
so what exactly is going on with this egg?

0:28:08.734,0:28:10.024
Honestly, I don't know.

0:28:10.024,0:28:11.544
There are a few other eggs in the game

0:28:11.544,0:28:14.054
that appear to store information similar[br]to this one.

0:28:14.054,0:28:16.374
The egg-looking things[br]found in the King's Pass,

0:28:16.374,0:28:19.204
Ancient Basin, and Black Egg are all lore[br]tablets.

0:28:19.460,0:28:23.170
We also know that the arcane eggs were[br]used to store information somehow.

0:28:23.170,0:28:26.470
Is this egg similar to those eggs in its[br]creation and design?

0:28:26.753,0:28:27.563
On the other hand,

0:28:27.563,0:28:30.703
the floor here is similar[br]to the floor found in the Black Egg

0:28:30.703,0:28:32.503
so maybe it's related to that.

0:28:32.503,0:28:33.420
Regardless,

0:28:33.420,0:28:37.240
it seems pretty unlikely that[br]the Pale King was born from this egg,

0:28:37.240,0:28:40.010
given that the Wanderer's Journal[br]does everything short of flat-out

0:28:40.010,0:28:42.870
saying he hatched from the egg in the[br]cast-off shell.

0:28:42.870,0:28:46.870
Finally, MatPat questions whether or not[br]the Pale King's third form was born out of

0:28:46.870,0:28:48.510
this egg in the Abyss;

0:28:48.510,0:28:50.750
the one our Knight was presumably born[br]from.

0:28:51.052,0:28:53.552
This is where things go really[br]off the rails.

0:28:53.794,0:28:56.024
Remember how I mentioned before that[br]the Knight

0:28:56.024,0:28:59.104
and the Pale King show up in the same room[br]at one point?

0:28:59.104,0:29:01.284
Well that happens in a cutscene that can[br]be triggered

0:29:01.284,0:29:03.944
after the Knight strikes its own[br]reflection on this egg

0:29:03.944,0:29:05.194
with the Dream Nail.

0:29:05.355,0:29:06.715
In this sequence,

0:29:06.715,0:29:08.800
the Knight climbs to the top of the Abyss.

0:29:08.895,0:29:09.795
When they get there,

0:29:09.795,0:29:11.255
they see the Pale King leaving

0:29:11.255,0:29:13.535
alongside a younger version of the Hollow[br]Knight

0:29:13.535,0:29:17.005
that looks back before the Knight[br]plunges back into the darkness.

0:29:17.221,0:29:18.501
After this cutscene

0:29:18.501,0:29:20.841
the Kingsoul charm turns into the[br]Void Heart,

0:29:20.841,0:29:24.361
a charm required to unlock the four[br]alternate endings to the game.

0:29:24.441,0:29:28.301
This cutscene is arguably one of the most[br]important moments in the game,

0:29:28.301,0:29:31.211
showing the Pale King at one of his lowest[br]points

0:29:31.211,0:29:33.791
choosing to sacrifice his children to the[br]Void

0:29:33.791,0:29:35.931
in order to create a pure vessel.

0:29:36.131,0:29:39.511
There's a lot of dialogue and symbolism[br]surrounding this event,

0:29:39.511,0:29:42.441
and none of it hints at the Pale King[br]becoming the Knight.

0:29:42.593,0:29:44.343
Let's look at the Kingsoul again.

0:29:44.490,0:29:47.830
This charm symbolizes the union between[br]two higher beings.

0:29:47.830,0:29:49.130
In other words,

0:29:49.130,0:29:51.800
this charm represents the children of the[br]Pale King.

0:29:51.800,0:29:54.040
When talking to the White Lady with this[br]charm,

0:29:54.040,0:29:56.910
she will tell the Knight to visit that[br]place where it was born,

0:29:56.910,0:29:58.010
where it died,

0:29:58.010,0:29:59.350
where it all began.

0:29:59.778,0:30:01.568
She's referring to an area in the Abyss

0:30:01.568,0:30:04.178
described as a birthplace by the Kingsoul[br]charm.

0:30:04.402,0:30:05.542
In this location,

0:30:05.542,0:30:07.222
the Knight finds its birthplace:

0:30:07.222,0:30:09.519
an egg, connected to Void tendrils.

0:30:09.900,0:30:12.120
After experiencing the birthplace[br]cutscene,

0:30:12.120,0:30:14.440
the Kingsoul turns into the Void Heart.

0:30:14.440,0:30:17.260
This is symbolic of the children of the[br]Pale King and White Lady

0:30:17.260,0:30:19.560
becoming corrupted by the Void itself.

0:30:19.760,0:30:21.668
That's what the Pale King means when he[br]says

0:30:21.668,0:30:25.248
"…Soul of Wyrm. Soul of Root.[br]Heart of Void…"

0:30:25.426,0:30:27.506
The Knight acquiring the Void Heart

0:30:27.506,0:30:30.466
symbolizes how it has come to terms[br]with its past.

0:30:30.510,0:30:33.500
In fact, the achievement you get after[br]this cutscene

0:30:33.500,0:30:36.210
strongly implies it's[br]a scene from the past.

0:30:36.370,0:30:38.190
The Void achievement reads,

0:30:38.190,0:30:40.890
"Remember the past and unite the Abyss."

0:30:40.890,0:30:43.100
The White Lady also[br]remarks on this, saying,

0:30:43.100,0:30:46.440
"Truly, it has been transformed by the[br]revelations it found."

0:30:46.630,0:30:47.610
In summary,

0:30:47.610,0:30:49.880
this scene is showing[br]a memory from the Knight

0:30:49.880,0:30:51.740
when it was discarded into the Abyss

0:30:51.740,0:30:52.940
by the Pale King.

0:30:53.349,0:30:54.329
So in other words,

0:30:54.329,0:30:55.849
it's completely impossible

0:30:55.849,0:30:57.969
for the Pale King to hatch out of this egg

0:30:57.969,0:31:00.019
if what we see here is a memory.

0:31:00.099,0:31:01.649
And like the achievement said,

0:31:01.649,0:31:05.099
the cutscene allows the Knight to remember[br]its past.

0:31:05.402,0:31:08.622
Now, MatPat didn't mention this cutscene[br]at all in his video;

0:31:08.622,0:31:11.492
however, he did leave a pinned comment[br]addressing the issue.

0:31:11.691,0:31:15.781
He says that he cut the part talking about[br]this scene from the video for both time

0:31:15.781,0:31:19.741
and because it was "too complicated for[br]the tone he was looking for in the video."

0:31:20.151,0:31:21.331
For his first point,

0:31:21.331,0:31:24.361
videos on YouTube can be much longer[br]than 20 minutes

0:31:24.361,0:31:26.441
so that's no excuse, in my opinion.

0:31:26.664,0:31:29.844
I get that The Game Theorists is a big[br]channel with employees;

0:31:30.174,0:31:31.094
schedules;

0:31:31.383,0:31:33.693
semi-annual office blood rituals;

0:31:33.822,0:31:34.582
overhead;

0:31:34.781,0:31:35.719
low toner;

0:31:36.148,0:31:38.338
shit that I mostly[br]don't have to worry about.

0:31:38.510,0:31:40.700
But if your format is forcing you to cut

0:31:40.700,0:31:42.920
crucial information out of your videos,

0:31:42.920,0:31:45.590
which are trying to provide persuasive[br]arguments,

0:31:45.590,0:31:47.610
then you need to do some retooling.

0:31:47.768,0:31:50.098
As for his second point, I agree.

0:31:50.098,0:31:51.838
It does complicate things,

0:31:51.838,0:31:55.558
especially considering it debunks his[br]entire video if he can't counter it.

0:31:55.758,0:31:57.234
But it's not that big of a deal

0:31:57.234,0:31:59.154
since MatPat tackled the counterargument

0:31:59.154,0:32:00.784
in this pinned comment.

0:32:00.919,0:32:02.429
So let's see what he's got.

0:32:02.429,0:32:05.359
First he says that the Pale King is[br]"transparent" in this scene,

0:32:05.359,0:32:07.899
which might hint at him not really being[br]there.

0:32:08.224,0:32:10.734
I have no idea what MatPat is talking[br]about here.

0:32:10.734,0:32:13.514
The Pale King does have a glow around him[br]in this scene,

0:32:13.514,0:32:15.944
but the Pale King has been described as[br]being a light

0:32:15.944,0:32:17.914
or giving off a light by Seer,

0:32:17.914,0:32:19.270
the Archive tablets,

0:32:19.270,0:32:20.800
the Throne Room tablets,

0:32:20.800,0:32:21.850
the Last Stag,

0:32:21.850,0:32:23.290
and Eternal Emelitia.

0:32:23.494,0:32:26.604
So the transparency argument is debunked[br]by…

0:32:26.604,0:32:28.327
having eyes.

0:32:28.728,0:32:32.528
Then MatPat says that because the[br]birthplace cutscene is a dream sequence,

0:32:32.528,0:32:34.918
technically anything is possible.

0:32:35.028,0:32:35.778
Which…

0:32:36.316,0:32:37.066
…um…

0:32:37.286,0:32:38.866
[JUSTIN] I give it to[br]you, you got me there.

0:32:39.851,0:32:40.932
[MOSSBAG] I mean, sure,

0:32:40.932,0:32:42.251
anything is possible.

0:32:42.571,0:32:45.051
Hell, maybe Ronald McDonald[br]was there too,

0:32:45.051,0:32:46.531
but the Knight suppressed that memory

0:32:46.531,0:32:48.511
so much that we just can't see him.

0:32:48.511,0:32:50.691
There are a lot of different ways to[br]interpret something,

0:32:50.691,0:32:51.962
but the best interpretations

0:32:51.962,0:32:53.642
are the ones that[br]line up with what we know

0:32:53.642,0:32:55.392
about the rest of the game's lore.

0:32:55.542,0:32:58.972
If we just assume that this is the Knight[br]remembering its own past,

0:32:58.972,0:33:01.682
like the achievement message strongly[br]implies,

0:33:01.682,0:33:04.012
then there aren't really any problems with[br]this cutscene.

0:33:04.234,0:33:07.034
But if we think the Pale King later turns[br]into the Knight,

0:33:07.034,0:33:09.704
then this whole scene becomes a complete[br]mess.

0:33:09.897,0:33:13.737
This is the moment the Knight has a huge[br]revelation about its true nature.

0:33:13.857,0:33:16.337
How exactly is this scene revealing to the[br]Knight

0:33:16.337,0:33:17.997
that it is the Pale King?

0:33:18.326,0:33:20.755
You'd think that this moment would at[br]least hint at it,

0:33:20.755,0:33:22.836
and not completely contradict it.

0:33:23.128,0:33:24.938
Why does this scene exist at all?

0:33:25.117,0:33:26.647
What's the point of it?

0:33:26.804,0:33:29.964
The weight of this entire scene is[br]neutered by MatPat's theory.

0:33:30.381,0:33:32.551
It no longer becomes an emotional moment

0:33:32.551,0:33:34.341
showing how the Knight was discarded

0:33:34.341,0:33:36.621
just like the other thousands of vessels,

0:33:36.621,0:33:39.081
but instead this scene becomes an eyesore;

0:33:39.081,0:33:42.241
a loose end to a theory that sounds cool[br]on the surface,

0:33:42.241,0:33:44.991
but doesn't resonate with what we see in[br]the game.

0:33:45.383,0:33:47.623
But I've been talking for way too long.

0:33:47.726,0:33:49.426
Let's get back to MatPat.

0:33:49.623,0:33:52.073
He then mentions how the nursery song in[br]the White Palace

0:33:52.073,0:33:55.313
is the same song we hear when the Knight[br]is next to its shade.

0:33:55.693,0:33:58.333
He then mentions the journal entry for the[br]shade.

0:33:58.505,0:34:00.655
[MATPAT] The description of these shadows[br]reads,

0:34:00.655,0:34:02.470
"Echo of a previous life.

0:34:02.470,0:34:05.370
"Each of us leaves an imprint of something[br]when we die.

0:34:05.370,0:34:07.170
A stain on the world."

0:34:07.170,0:34:10.720
So the sound that accompanies our[br]Knight's past life

0:34:10.720,0:34:12.998
coincides with the same sound

0:34:12.998,0:34:16.208
from a nursery housed inside the Pale[br]King's palace?

0:34:16.208,0:34:19.698
The existence of a connection between our[br]Knight and the Pale King

0:34:19.698,0:34:21.192
seems undeniable.

0:34:21.491,0:34:24.221
[MOSSBAG] I think there's a much[br]better interpretation for this.

0:34:24.401,0:34:27.211
After the Pale King chose the Hollow[br]Knight as the Vessel,

0:34:27.211,0:34:29.661
the Hollow Knight likely lived in the[br]White Palace.

0:34:30.008,0:34:33.478
We even see that this is the case in the[br]Path of Pain cutscene.

0:34:33.478,0:34:36.518
So chances are the Hollow Knight was kept[br]in this crib.

0:34:36.619,0:34:39.249
The Hollow Knight is, of course, similar[br]to the Knight

0:34:39.249,0:34:42.249
in that it is a child of the Pale King and[br]the White Lady,

0:34:42.249,0:34:44.909
and it also has a shade similar to the[br]Knight.

0:34:45.179,0:34:47.419
Connecting this nursery song to the Pale[br]King

0:34:47.419,0:34:49.299
to say he became a Void creature

0:34:49.299,0:34:50.739
is a much bigger leap.

0:34:50.903,0:34:53.852
And it also has another[br]problem that I will get into shortly.

0:34:53.852,0:34:54.573
But first,

0:34:54.573,0:34:56.813
let me play another[br]section of MatPat's video.

0:34:57.140,0:34:59.930
[MATPAT] It's almost as if the King laid[br]the groundwork

0:34:59.930,0:35:01.740
for him to be reborn as Void,

0:35:01.740,0:35:02.350
died,

0:35:02.350,0:35:05.260
was hatched of Void from the black egg[br]in the Abyss,

0:35:05.260,0:35:07.650
was taken back to the Palace to be raised

0:35:07.650,0:35:09.450
and was eventually sent away from the[br]kingdom

0:35:09.450,0:35:11.200
to avoid succumbing to the infection,

0:35:11.200,0:35:13.690
only to be called back when he was older

0:35:13.690,0:35:16.260
and when the Hollow Knight started losing[br]control.

0:35:16.260,0:35:17.060
[MOSSBAG] Okay,

0:35:17.060,0:35:18.790
let's take this piece by piece.

0:35:19.157,0:35:21.845
First, MatPat says that the King[br]"laid the groundwork

0:35:21.845,0:35:23.675
for him to be reborn as Void."

0:35:24.180,0:35:25.910
There is no evidence for this.

0:35:26.021,0:35:28.041
I'm guessing MatPat is basing this off of

0:35:28.041,0:35:30.801
the "deny time" section of the workshop[br]tablet,

0:35:30.801,0:35:33.301
but again I don't[br]think the tablet is referring

0:35:33.301,0:35:36.661
to the Pale King's desire to become[br]a Void creature, at all.

0:35:37.091,0:35:39.471
Next, he says that the Pale King died.

0:35:39.788,0:35:42.885
[♪ 'For The Damaged Coda' by[br]Blonde Redhead ♪]

0:35:42.885,0:35:43.135
(RIP glowing fork man)

0:35:43.135,0:35:43.855
Damn.

0:35:44.025,0:35:46.785
I actually completely agree with MatPat on[br]this one.

0:35:47.095,0:35:48.805
This calls for a celebration.

0:35:48.901,0:35:52.901
[♪ 'Celebration' by Kool &amp; The Gang ♪]

0:35:52.901,0:35:54.331
He then says the Pale King was

0:35:54.331,0:35:56.632
"hatched of Void from the black egg[br]in the Abyss."

0:35:57.302,0:35:58.952
I don't think that is the case.

0:35:59.190,0:36:01.640
We see that the first transformation of[br]the Pale King

0:36:01.640,0:36:03.972
was from an egg inside the Wyrm corpse,

0:36:03.972,0:36:05.662
but for his second transformation

0:36:05.662,0:36:07.842
he somehow died in the White Palace

0:36:07.842,0:36:10.669
and turned into an egg larger than his[br]own body,

0:36:10.669,0:36:13.939
and then the egg was somehow transported[br]to the Abyss

0:36:13.939,0:36:16.769
despite the fact that the gateway to the[br]Abyss was sealed.

0:36:16.769,0:36:18.736
Now, in his pinned comment

0:36:18.736,0:36:21.596
MatPat pointed out an issue that I think[br]is valid.

0:36:21.684,0:36:24.074
He asked how exactly were the vessels even[br]able

0:36:24.074,0:36:26.384
to escape the Abyss in the first place.

0:36:26.937,0:36:30.307
This has been a pretty big question in the[br]lore for a while now.

0:36:30.644,0:36:32.034
In a Reddit AMA,

0:36:32.034,0:36:34.984
Team Cherry mentioned that they weren't[br]sure how it happened.

0:36:34.984,0:36:37.414
So yeah, they're pretty much useless as[br]usual.

0:36:37.744,0:36:40.494
This issue can kinda counter my argument[br]here;

0:36:40.494,0:36:43.044
if there are multiple entrances to the[br]Abyss

0:36:43.044,0:36:45.614
then of course they could get the egg back[br]down there.

0:36:45.785,0:36:47.555
I still don't buy that explanation

0:36:47.555,0:36:50.505
but I do have a theory about how the [br]vessels escaped.

0:36:50.771,0:36:52.761
In the bottom right corner of Deepnest,

0:36:52.761,0:36:55.891
there's an area that has clearly been[br]influenced by the Void

0:36:56.066,0:36:57.676
and not far from there

0:36:57.676,0:37:01.676
we can see that several vessels have[br]been captured by Nosk in its lair.

0:37:01.768,0:37:03.693
So there might be some hidden passage

0:37:03.693,0:37:05.686
between the Abyss and Deepnest

0:37:05.686,0:37:08.066
that the vessels were able to navigate[br]through.

0:37:08.126,0:37:08.808
Next

0:37:08.808,0:37:10.348
MatPat says that the Pale King was

0:37:10.348,0:37:12.718
"taken back to the White Palace to be[br]raised."

0:37:12.946,0:37:15.226
So who exactly raised the Pale King?

0:37:15.480,0:37:17.390
Was it the White Lady then?

0:37:17.460,0:37:19.960
That's likely her silhouette on the chair,[br]right?

0:37:20.131,0:37:22.661
Does this mean the White Lady is in on[br]the plan too?

0:37:22.661,0:37:23.966
Because if that's the case,

0:37:23.966,0:37:25.326
I have a few issues.

0:37:25.525,0:37:26.355
First of all,

0:37:26.355,0:37:30.535
why doesn't she recognize the Pale King[br]immediately if she literally raised him?

0:37:30.535,0:37:32.495
Why does she call the Knight her spawn?

0:37:32.495,0:37:33.955
But my bigger issue here

0:37:33.955,0:37:36.935
is what the White Lady says when the[br]Knight first meets her.

0:37:37.404,0:37:38.354
She says,

0:37:38.354,0:37:39.554
"One arrives.

0:37:39.554,0:37:41.353
"Far it walks to find me.

0:37:41.353,0:37:42.705
"Did it seek my aid?

0:37:42.705,0:37:45.975
"Or did the path carry it by chance to so[br]pertinent a place?

0:37:45.975,0:37:47.045
"It is true.

0:37:47.045,0:37:48.795
"True, that you were awaited.

0:37:48.795,0:37:51.372
"No. Perhaps that is inaccurate.

0:37:51.372,0:37:53.812
True one like you was awaited."

0:37:53.905,0:37:55.915
Pay attention to how she talks.

0:37:55.975,0:37:59.345
The White Lady is indeed waiting for a[br]vessel to come find her,

0:37:59.345,0:38:01.825
but not any one vessel in particular.

0:38:01.825,0:38:05.185
She says "one like you was awaited."

0:38:05.275,0:38:07.365
She is looking for any vessel,

0:38:07.365,0:38:08.845
not a specific one.

0:38:09.016,0:38:11.306
If she was in on the Pale King's plan,

0:38:11.306,0:38:13.966
then why wouldn't she be looking for him[br]specifically?

0:38:14.073,0:38:16.173
And if she isn't in on the plan,

0:38:16.173,0:38:18.553
what's the deal with her silhouette on the[br]chair?

0:38:18.667,0:38:21.967
MatPat finishes by saying that the Pale[br]King was sent away

0:38:21.967,0:38:23.897
to avoid succumbing to the infection,

0:38:23.897,0:38:26.117
and then was brought back when he was [br]older.

0:38:26.247,0:38:28.657
I don't really have any issues with this[br]section

0:38:28.657,0:38:31.837
but I do have a broader issue with the[br]theory that I'd like to talk about.

0:38:31.997,0:38:34.417
According to the Hollow Knight game manual

0:38:34.417,0:38:37.547
the Pale King went into hiding as his[br]kingdom fell to ruin.

0:38:37.695,0:38:40.135
Relic Seeker Lemm mentions that the Pale[br]King's palace

0:38:40.135,0:38:42.575
disappeared without any sign of struggle,

0:38:42.575,0:38:44.375
and in the Wanderer's Journal

0:38:44.375,0:38:47.605
Ellina mentions that it appears as though[br]the Pale King took the White Palace

0:38:47.605,0:38:49.955
and his court with him when he fled.

0:38:50.293,0:38:52.392
So if MatPat's theory is true,

0:38:52.392,0:38:55.042
then how does this information fit with[br]the lore?

0:38:55.042,0:38:57.682
Is the game manual just completely wrong,

0:38:57.682,0:39:00.182
and what's the deal with the White Palace[br]disappearing?

0:39:00.182,0:39:02.562
If the Pale King didn't use it to hide in,

0:39:02.562,0:39:04.622
then why is it even in the dream world?

0:39:04.622,0:39:07.322
How exactly did the Pale King get out of[br]the White Palace

0:39:07.322,0:39:08.892
if it had a seal on it?

0:39:08.942,0:39:11.272
MatPat doesn't really address any of this,

0:39:11.272,0:39:15.192
even though it's probably the most[br]relevant pieces of information related

0:39:15.192,0:39:17.482
to what actually happened to the Pale King

0:39:17.482,0:39:19.192
after the Hollow Knight was sealed.

0:39:19.392,0:39:20.332
Moving on,

0:39:20.332,0:39:21.752
MatPat explains how the line

0:39:21.752,0:39:23.262
"No cost too great"

0:39:23.262,0:39:25.612
that the Pale King says when you dream[br]nail him

0:39:25.612,0:39:28.832
could be referring to how he sacrificed[br]himself to become the Knight

0:39:28.832,0:39:30.932
and take on the infection himself.

0:39:30.932,0:39:34.302
The line is also used at the beginning of[br]the birthplace memory,

0:39:34.302,0:39:36.142
so the first time the Pale King says it,

0:39:36.142,0:39:38.822
it's definitely referring to the creation[br]of the vessels.

0:39:39.293,0:39:43.333
But I'm not against the phrase being[br]recontextualized to mean something else,

0:39:43.333,0:39:46.033
I just don't think there's enough evidence[br]to really prove that.

0:39:46.233,0:39:50.613
MatPat then gives more evidence for why[br]the Knight being a reincarnated Pale King

0:39:50.613,0:39:51.613
makes sense.

0:39:51.942,0:39:54.462
[MATPAT] The Knight being a reincarnated[br]Pale King

0:39:54.462,0:39:56.692
would explain how a nameless, faceless[br]knight

0:39:56.692,0:39:59.715
is so easily able to accept the[br]King's Brand item

0:39:59.715,0:40:02.225
which outright marks him as a king.

0:40:02.225,0:40:04.265
[MOSSBAG] I don't think that's the case.

0:40:04.375,0:40:06.355
The King's Brand is guarded by Hornet,

0:40:06.355,0:40:09.615
which makes me think that getting the[br]brand itself isn't hard,

0:40:09.615,0:40:11.975
but Hornet doesn't want others getting to[br]it

0:40:11.975,0:40:14.505
unless they can prove their strength[br]like the Knight did.

0:40:14.791,0:40:16.221
We also have Hornet saying this

0:40:16.221,0:40:18.941
when she hints for the player[br]to go to the Kingdom's Edge:

0:40:19.243,0:40:20.843
"Seek the Grave in Ash

0:40:20.843,0:40:23.203
and the mark it would grant one like you."

0:40:23.327,0:40:26.047
"One like you" implies that vessels in[br]general

0:40:26.047,0:40:27.607
are able to receive the mark,

0:40:27.753,0:40:29.043
and that makes sense.

0:40:29.143,0:40:31.223
Midwife also calls the King's Brand

0:40:31.223,0:40:33.253
a "bright mark of relationship,"

0:40:33.253,0:40:35.453
which I interpret as saying that the[br]mark's bearer

0:40:35.453,0:40:37.313
is a relation to the Pale King.

0:40:37.453,0:40:38.493
On top of that,

0:40:38.493,0:40:40.773
the vessels are the children of the[br]Pale King

0:40:40.773,0:40:42.263
so, since he's dead,

0:40:42.263,0:40:44.943
any one of them should[br]be able to become the next king.

0:40:45.236,0:40:49.766
Also MatPat keeps referring to the Knight[br]and the Hollow Knight using male pronouns

0:40:49.766,0:40:52.186
but in game they are never given genders.

0:40:52.186,0:40:54.616
In fact, Hornet is[br]called "the gendered child"

0:40:54.616,0:40:58.276
just to signify how the rest of the Pale[br]King's children lack genders.

0:40:58.516,0:41:01.876
I assume MatPat is just using male[br]pronouns for convenience,

0:41:02.280,0:41:05.540
but that's no excuse to misgender these[br]poor bugs.

0:41:05.540,0:41:06.910
They have it hard enough.

0:41:06.910,0:41:08.150
[MATPAT] It would explain how,

0:41:08.150,0:41:11.620
just like the Pale King snapped the bugs[br]out of their collective stupor

0:41:11.620,0:41:12.660
during his lifetime,

0:41:12.660,0:41:14.590
our Knight, as you go through the game,

0:41:14.590,0:41:16.850
is doing exactly the same thing;

0:41:16.850,0:41:18.570
waking up bugs from the infection

0:41:18.570,0:41:21.384
and getting them to return to a life in[br]Dirtmouth.

0:41:21.384,0:41:22.504
[MOSSBAG] To be fair,

0:41:22.504,0:41:25.306
the Knight only saves two bugs from[br]the infection:

0:41:25.306,0:41:26.636
Sly and Bretta,

0:41:26.636,0:41:28.916
and these two are very rare exceptions.

0:41:29.036,0:41:32.586
The Knight isn't able to cure any of the[br]other infected bugs we see.

0:41:32.736,0:41:35.476
You'd think that would be easier than[br]fighting them off.

0:41:35.831,0:41:37.611
And of course we can't forget

0:41:37.611,0:41:41.511
if the Knight really can snap bugs out[br]of the infection so easily,

0:41:41.511,0:41:43.461
why can't we save Myla?

0:41:43.694,0:41:46.164
Did we really fail her that much?

0:41:46.354,0:41:48.014
She really deserved better.

0:41:48.014,0:41:50.184
[♪ 'For The Damaged Coda' ♪]

0:41:50.184,0:41:50.434
(POV: You discover that[br]mossbag can read your mind--)

0:41:50.434,0:41:51.139
On top of that,

0:41:51.139,0:41:54.107
the Pale King couldn't snap bugs out of[br]the infection either.

0:41:54.107,0:41:56.007
That was the whole point of the Vessel,

0:41:56.007,0:41:59.072
it was the only way the Pale King could[br]deal with the infection.

0:41:59.072,0:42:01.656
[MATPAT] It would explain how[br]only you and the Pale King

0:42:01.656,0:42:03.676
are seen to use the Monarch Wings item.

0:42:04.155,0:42:05.655
[MOSSBAG] That's true,

0:42:05.655,0:42:08.975
but the Monarch Wings could[br]probably be worn by any vessel

0:42:08.975,0:42:12.265
as long as they had a cape for[br]the Monarch Flies to morph into.

0:42:12.265,0:42:15.765
[MATPAT] And if all of that wasn't[br]enough to convince you,

0:42:15.765,0:42:19.225
in cut dialogue that[br]was datamined from the game,

0:42:19.225,0:42:21.655
if you dream nail the final boss,

0:42:21.655,0:42:22.935
the Hollow Knight himself,

0:42:22.935,0:42:24.145
it will say this:

0:42:24.145,0:42:24.895
"…Father?…"

0:42:24.895,0:42:26.765
Doesn't get much more explicit than that.

0:42:26.765,0:42:28.205
[MOSSBAG] Okay, so first of all,

0:42:28.205,0:42:32.235
this is cut dialogue so it really[br]should be taken with a grain of salt.

0:42:32.361,0:42:34.531
Now I am guilty of doing this a lot myself

0:42:34.531,0:42:37.061
and it's a bad habit[br]that I do need to break.

0:42:37.497,0:42:38.117
Second,

0:42:38.117,0:42:41.107
just because the Hollow Knight is thinking[br]about its father,

0:42:41.107,0:42:44.091
that doesn't mean it[br]thinks that the <i>Knight</i> is its father.

0:42:44.489,0:42:49.075
Love for its father would probably be the[br]only thought the Hollow Knight could have,

0:42:49.075,0:42:52.985
so it would probably think[br]that even if the Knight wasn't there.

0:42:53.206,0:42:55.321
Look at the jellyfish in the Fog Canyon,

0:42:55.321,0:42:57.571
or the flukes in the Royal Waterways.

0:42:57.720,0:43:00.770
They think about[br]Monomon and the Flukemarm respectively,

0:43:00.770,0:43:03.070
without being in the same room as them.

0:43:03.331,0:43:06.143
The rest of the video[br]is just recapping the theory,

0:43:06.143,0:43:10.083
with one additional section discussing why[br]the Pale King left Hallownest.

0:43:10.083,0:43:10.914
[MATPAT] He studies the Void

0:43:10.914,0:43:14.203
so that he's eventually[br]able to be reborn with its power,

0:43:14.203,0:43:15.823
hatching down in the Abyss,

0:43:15.823,0:43:18.423
getting cared for in[br]the safety of the White Palace,

0:43:18.423,0:43:21.223
and then being released[br]out into the lands beyond Dirtmouth,

0:43:21.223,0:43:24.413
a place where canonically bugs lose all[br]of their memories.

0:43:24.511,0:43:28.251
This self-exile for a period of years is[br]probably for two reasons;

0:43:28.251,0:43:30.361
One, his own protection from the Radiance;

0:43:30.361,0:43:33.921
and two, losing his memory[br]helps make him purely hollow.

0:43:33.921,0:43:34.641
No memory,

0:43:34.641,0:43:35.351
no desire,

0:43:35.351,0:43:36.611
no past life.

0:43:36.611,0:43:38.141
He's now an empty vessel

0:43:38.141,0:43:39.791
so that should it come down to it

0:43:39.791,0:43:42.971
he can now be the one[br]to take on the Hollow Knight's place.

0:43:43.184,0:43:45.204
[MOSSBAG] I don't really have any[br]problems with this section

0:43:45.204,0:43:46.954
that I haven't brought up already,

0:43:46.954,0:43:48.634
other than that it begs the question of

0:43:48.634,0:43:51.364
how exactly the[br]Void Heart fits into all this.

0:43:51.530,0:43:55.170
Hornet mentions multiple times that the[br]Knight needs to pursue the deeper truth,

0:43:55.170,0:43:57.710
and learn of the[br]tragedy of its own conception.

0:43:57.850,0:44:00.870
She then commends the Knight[br]on accepting the Void inside itself.

0:44:01.390,0:44:03.035
There's nothing about coming to terms with

0:44:03.035,0:44:05.295
being the next[br]reincarnation of the Pale King.

0:44:05.733,0:44:07.503
Why is such an important part of the story

0:44:07.503,0:44:09.872
completely glossed over[br]for a different theme

0:44:09.872,0:44:13.082
about the Knight coming to[br]terms with the Void inside itself?

0:44:13.190,0:44:15.650
And that's really my biggest problem with[br]this theory:

0:44:15.650,0:44:18.880
it just doesn't congeal with[br]the lore you see in the game.

0:44:18.983,0:44:19.803
Sure,

0:44:19.803,0:44:22.553
you could argue that the[br]Elderbug refers to the Knight as a ghost

0:44:22.553,0:44:25.673
because the Knight is literally[br]the Pale King returning to Hallownest

0:44:25.673,0:44:27.423
after years of self-exile.

0:44:27.510,0:44:29.470
You could argue[br]that the Pale King was planning

0:44:29.470,0:44:32.850
to turn himself into a Void Creature in[br]an attempt to deny time and live forever.

0:44:33.126,0:44:36.296
And you could probably even find[br]a way to interpret the birthplace cutscene

0:44:36.296,0:44:38.626
so that it doesn't[br]debunk the entire theory.

0:44:38.626,0:44:38.876
(lol)

0:44:38.958,0:44:42.002
But do all of these things really feel[br]like what the game is saying?

0:44:42.002,0:44:46.039
Or do they feel like someone is looking[br]too hard to justify their own theory

0:44:46.039,0:44:47.369
despite what evidence,

0:44:47.369,0:44:48.799
or lack thereof,

0:44:48.799,0:44:50.269
they find in the game.

0:44:50.715,0:44:52.415
Now I'd like to reiterate:

0:44:52.415,0:44:55.345
my intention with[br]this video isn't to attack MatPat.

0:44:55.530,0:44:57.810
Remember that pinned[br]comment I mentioned earlier?

0:44:57.926,0:44:59.936
Well, since I first wrote this script,

0:44:59.936,0:45:02.606
MatPat has replaced[br]that comment with another one

0:45:02.606,0:45:05.076
providing a detailed[br]critique of his arguments

0:45:05.076,0:45:07.026
originally written by Sumwan.

0:45:07.170,0:45:08.880
If you don't know who Sumwan is,

0:45:08.880,0:45:10.610
she's done a lot for this community

0:45:10.610,0:45:14.892
helping update the Wiki to include[br]detailed and sourced lore sections,

0:45:14.892,0:45:16.884
and she's also helped me with my videos

0:45:16.884,0:45:18.534
by proofreading my scripts,

0:45:18.534,0:45:21.114
so she definitely has a[br]strong understanding of the lore.

0:45:21.174,0:45:21.424
(Sumwan has big chad energy, ngl.)

0:45:21.543,0:45:24.763
Seeing MatPat display her detailed[br]rebuttal in a pinned comment

0:45:24.763,0:45:25.933
is really cool,

0:45:25.933,0:45:29.303
and it shows that MatPat is[br]open to criticism about his theories.

0:45:30.117,0:45:33.427
So yeah, those are just a few of[br]the thoughts I had on MatPat's video.

0:45:33.838,0:45:35.178
If you're a fan of MatPat,

0:45:35.178,0:45:37.938
and didn't really know the lore of[br]Hollow Knight going into this video,

0:45:37.938,0:45:41.588
then hopefully you can see why[br]our community got a little upset.

0:45:41.588,0:45:43.958
This theory really is beyond saving.

0:45:44.439,0:45:46.339
Even the Pope couldn't resurrect it.

0:45:46.379,0:45:46.719
...

0:45:46.759,0:45:48.204
That's what the Pope does,

0:45:48.294,0:45:48.894
right?

0:45:49.296,0:45:50.286
If you're a fan of me,

0:45:50.286,0:45:51.715
or just Hollow Knight in general,

0:45:51.715,0:45:54.745
then hopefully you can see that MatPat[br]isn't trying to disrespect this game

0:45:54.745,0:45:56.505
or mislead people.

0:45:56.505,0:45:58.684
He's been very receptive to the criticism

0:45:58.684,0:46:01.974
and you can tell this video[br]clearly has a lot of love put into it.

0:46:02.270,0:46:03.490
I mean, fuck,

0:46:03.490,0:46:06.270
I wish my videos[br]looked half as good as this.

0:46:06.270,0:46:09.700
I just now figured out how to use overlays[br]in Sony Vegas.

0:46:09.919,0:46:10.619
Look at this:

0:46:12.819,0:46:14.079
… Pretty cool, huh?

0:46:14.275,0:46:15.655
If you're not a fan of me,

0:46:15.675,0:46:16.635
or Hollow Knight,

0:46:16.655,0:46:17.584
or MatPat…

0:46:17.749,0:46:19.169
Then what the fuck are you doing here?

0:46:19.169,0:46:21.323
Why'd you just watch[br]this whole fucking video???

0:46:21.640,0:46:24.020
All in all, no harm no foul,

0:46:24.231,0:46:25.971
and I'm sure that the animation

0:46:25.971,0:46:28.821
showing that Hornet[br]was made of Void was just an accident.

0:46:29.492,0:46:31.872
Otherwise I take everything back.

0:46:32.483,0:46:33.793
So in conclusion,

0:46:33.793,0:46:36.923
I guess this is a really[br]roundabout way of saying this,

0:46:37.081,0:46:39.190
but I suppose the whole point I'm trying[br]to make here

0:46:39.190,0:46:41.410
is that VaatiVidya and[br]Indeimaus are a couple of

0:46:41.410,0:46:41.683
bitch

0:46:41.683,0:46:41.983
ass

0:46:41.983,0:46:42.432
mother

0:46:42.432,0:46:43.000
FUCKERS--