WEBVTT
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[MOSSBAG] I am literally
shaking and crying right now.
00:00:08.889 --> 00:00:10.909
I can't believe MatPat has done this.
00:00:11.261 --> 00:00:13.381
Is nothing in this world sacred anymore?
00:00:13.645 --> 00:00:16.335
Is no work of art
free from this man's grasp?
00:00:16.903 --> 00:00:19.163
Oh god… I can't do this.
00:00:19.908 --> 00:00:23.608
How could MatPat really say all
those things about The Canterbury Tales?
00:00:24.064 --> 00:00:26.474
What did Chaucer
ever do to deserve this?
00:00:26.851 --> 00:00:30.818
I mean, sure, that deathbed confession
right at the end felt pretty contrived,
00:00:30.818 --> 00:00:34.680
but The Wife of Bath's Tale has given us
precious insight into the role of women
00:00:34.680 --> 00:00:36.370
during the late middle ages.
00:00:36.734 --> 00:00:39.534
He probably even thinks
The Decameron is better written…
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Pathetic.
00:00:41.401 --> 00:00:43.851
Someone has to
stand up against this monster.
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Someone has to tear his fu--
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oh shit…
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he gave me a shout-out.
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Um…
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…
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thanks!
00:01:03.530 --> 00:01:06.946
So the Game Theorists have finally put out
a Hollow Knight lore video,
00:01:06.946 --> 00:01:10.693
and MatPat himself uttered my name with
his own two lips.
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The capitalization in the video is wrong:
"MossBag" is supposed to be all lowercase.
00:01:16.114 --> 00:01:19.484
I mean it's literally
how I start every video… but that's okay.
00:01:19.824 --> 00:01:20.920
I'm still cool with it.
00:01:21.214 --> 00:01:22.279
Thanks to MatPat,
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my original Hollow Knight lore video
finally hit 1,000,000 views.
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And more importantly, I
gained over 1,000 new followers on Twitter
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so now even more
people can read my reviews of
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each and every
episode of King of the Hill.
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It's also great to see a video about
Hollow Knight trend on YouTube.
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This community really has come a long way.
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But, as cool as all that is,
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MatPat's theory is… pretty bad.
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Now, I may not have
11,000,000 subscribers like MatPat does,
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and no, I've never given
a copy of Undertale to the Pope,
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but I did sent the Dalai Lama
a copy of my Rick and Morty spec script,
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and I am something of a theorist myself,
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so I think I am qualified
to make a response to this new video.
00:02:05.593 --> 00:02:08.833
And no, this isn't
some sort of take down video.
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I'm already mortal enemies
with VaatiVidya and Indeimaus.
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I don't need a third YouTuber coming after
me,
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even if MatPat has defiled the sanctity of
our fandom with his
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completely terrible and
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abhorrently offensive…
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Fuck.
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This isn't going well...
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I should just restart the video.
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Here's some context
if you're just joining in:
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The Hollow Knight community's
reaction to this new video has been...
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pretty negative.
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Mainly because there are
a lot of perceived flaws in the theory.
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As a result, there are some people saying
that the Hollow Knight fanbase is "toxic."
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And yeah, maybe my initial reaction to
MatPat's video could be perceived as...
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... rude?
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But you have to understand that being an
asshole is just part of my online schtick.
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It's a completely original
and clever concept, I know.
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But in general,
I don't think this community is too toxic.
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Some of us are just a little defensive
about the lore, that's all.
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But it is important to remember that, at
the end of the day,
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MatPat is just a guy who wanted to talk
about Hollow Knight,
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and I've got nothing against that.
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It just gives me an excuse to
talk about this game even more.
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That being said,
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I reckon it's time to get out the propane
and propane accessories, boys and girls...
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because we're about to
burn this theory to the ground.
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So if you haven't seen the Game Theorists'
video yet, I recommend you check it out.
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I'm going to go
through all of MatPat's arguments
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but I'm not going
to play his whole video through,
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so you'll have to watch it
yourself if you want the full context.
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Then, you can watch this video
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and come to your own
conclusion about Hollow Knight's lore.
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The issue on debate here has to do with
the nature of the Knight
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and the whereabouts of the Pale King.
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MatPat's theory is that the Knight is
actually the Pale King, reincarnated.
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[MATPAT] We are supposedly just another
one of those failed experiments,
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except... I don't
think that's the case here.
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If you stop and dig through the
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massive amounts of secret lore
hidden throughout this game,
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it's my belief that
we're not just some random nobody.
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We are, in fact, royalty.
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A king.
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The King, in fact.
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It's my belief that in Hollow Knight,
we're playing as the Pale King himself.
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[MOSSBAG] This isn't a new theory.
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It's been around for a while,
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but I've never really talked
about it here on this channel.
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There are several
problems with this theory,
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the biggest one
being the lack of evidence.
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A lot of the evidence that
MatPat will present in this video
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can be interpreted in
ways that make much more sense
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when put in a different context.
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Second; there are pieces of
evidence that contradict this theory.
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You can poke a lot of small
holes into MatPat's timeline here,
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and a few bigger ones as well...
with the biggest hole being that
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you literally see the Knight
with the Pale King, in the same room.
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But I'm getting ahead of myself.
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Let's start with MatPat's first argument:
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The higher being tablets in the King's
Pass, which all begin with the phrase,
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"Higher beings, these
words are for you alone."
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These tablets are very mysterious,
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and I don't think that there is
really a consensus on what they mean.
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One theory I see a lot is that these
tablets were left here for the vessels,
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as a way to teach them how to focus SOUL.
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But then why did the Pale King leave a
lore tablet like this in the Ancient Basin
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or the Howling Cliffs?
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They don't contain information
that would be pertinent to them,
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and some of these tablets seem
to predate the creation of the vessels.
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Another theory is that
the tablets are addressed to the bugs
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that were granted higher thought
through the Pale King's beacon.
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The problem with that theory is that the
tablets teach you how to focus SOUL,
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which doesn't seem to be
a thing that regular bugs can do.
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At least, not easily.
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Personally I believe this
explanation is the correct one,
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but my thoughts
on it are super speculative.
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I've linked a document
below if you want to check it out.
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So yeah, these tablets
are quite mysterious indeed.
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But for MatPat's argument,
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all that really matters
is the fact that the Knight can read them,
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even though they are stated
as being intended for only higher beings.
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MatPat explains that
higher beings are godlike creatures,
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mentioning the Reddit AMA post
and the Kingsoul charm description.
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I agree with Matt here.
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He then mentions that pretty much
only higher beings can manipulate SOUL.
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[MATPAT] The tablet even says, quote:
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"You shall achieve feats
of which others can only dream."
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Again, setting apart SOUL-users
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like our Knight
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from pretty much every other creature
that we encounter throughout this game.
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Now, MatPat does say
"pretty much every other creature,"
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so I can't say he's wrong,
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but there are examples of
creatures that can manipulate SOUL
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that aren't higher beings.
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Two examples of this
would be the snail shamans
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and the scholars of the Soul Sanctum.
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The snail shaman gives the
Knight the Vengeful Spirit [spell],
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and another SOUL spell can be found near
another shaman in the Overgrown Mound.
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The higher being tablet in the King's Pass
teaches the Knight how to focus SOUL.
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We see the word "focus"
again in the Ancestral Mound,
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where there is a whispering
root that gives the Dream Nail dialogue,
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"…Spiral focus…"
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I think this is referring to how the
shaman can focus SOUL to cast spells,
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just like the Knight.
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The word "spiral" probably
refers to the spiral of the snail shell
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the shaman is wearing.
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Now, the nature of the
snail shamans is a little sketchy,
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seemingly tied to the void somehow,
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but I don't think they are higher beings.
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However, the bugs of the Soul
Sanctum are definitely not higher beings.
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They were able to learn how to manipulate
SOUL through diligent practice and study,
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but as a result their minds have begun
to swell and ache…
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so it's not really an ideal situation.
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(YOU DON'T SAY)
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In the Soul Sanctum,
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there's a lore tablet that also mentions
their desire to attain a "pure focus,"
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and while they may not have been totally
successful,
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these bugs have proven that they were
capable of manipulating SOUL.
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And the specific focus ability that the
Knight learns from the lore tablet
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is not specific to just this vessel.
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During the Pure Vessel fight,
00:08:01.723 --> 00:08:04.773
the Hollow Knight uses a move that's
described in the game's code
00:08:04.773 --> 00:08:06.533
as being a focus ability.
00:08:06.897 --> 00:08:11.007
So this ability doesn't appear to separate
the Knight from the other vessels.
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But ultimately, I don't think this really
hurts the point MatPat is trying to make:
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that being that
the Knight is a higher being.
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[MATPAT] So not only are we reading
tablets reserved for higher beings,
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but we're also using skills reserved for
the godlike creatures of the world
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on par with the Pale King.
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Does it really sound like
we'd just be some failed experiment
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cast into the depths of this world?
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[MOSSBAG] I think it's possible that the
Knight is a higher being in some regard,
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but that doesn't mean the Knight has to be
a reincarnation of the Pale King.
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The Knight, the Hollow Knight,
and the other vessels
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are the offspring of the Pale King and
the White Lady.
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There's a lot of evidence for this.
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There's the White Lady, who literally
calls the Knight her "spawn;"
00:08:53.093 --> 00:08:56.593
the line "Born of God and Void," from
the birthplace cutscene,
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alludes to the vessels being born from
the White Lady and the Pale King,
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but then being corrupted by the Void;
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and there's the fact that the Pale King
and the White Lady had a quote-unquote…
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"Union."
00:09:07.250 --> 00:09:14.412
[♪ 'Let's Get It On' by Marvin Gaye ♪]
00:09:14.568 --> 00:09:17.728
I don't think MatPat is arguing against
this point,
00:09:17.728 --> 00:09:19.829
but calling the
Knight a "failed experiment"
00:09:19.829 --> 00:09:21.921
could lead people
to believe that the vessels
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really aren't the
Pale King's biological children.
00:09:25.052 --> 00:09:27.819
Granted, Grimm does
call the Knight a "craft,"
00:09:27.819 --> 00:09:31.296
but this is possibly just referring to how
the vessels are a combination
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of the spawn of higher beings
00:09:32.961 --> 00:09:34.977
mixed with the influence of Void.
00:09:35.409 --> 00:09:38.009
Another big piece of
evidence for this is the fact that
00:09:38.009 --> 00:09:40.584
the achievement you get
for defeating the Hollow Knight
00:09:40.584 --> 00:09:43.321
with Hornet by your side
is called "Sealed Siblings."
00:09:43.470 --> 00:09:46.420
This confirms that the Knight and Hornet
are siblings,
00:09:46.629 --> 00:09:49.249
and we know that Hornet is the daughter of
the Pale King
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since the White Lady mentions that the
Pale King had sex with Hera the Beast.
00:09:53.069 --> 00:09:55.079
[♪ 'Let's Get It On" by Marvin Gaye ♪]
00:09:55.079 --> 00:09:57.075
Not only does this strengthen the argument
00:09:57.075 --> 00:09:59.895
that the vessels were the literal children
of the Pale King,
00:09:59.895 --> 00:10:02.752
but it also pretty much confirms that the
Knight specifically
00:10:02.752 --> 00:10:04.101
is a child of the Pale King.
00:10:04.518 --> 00:10:07.277
Which, by the way, debunks MatPat's
whole theory.
00:10:07.838 --> 00:10:09.809
… So I guess we could end the video now.
00:10:09.809 --> 00:10:12.422
[♪ 'Obstacle Course'
Yoshi's Island SSBU Ver. ♪]
00:10:12.422 --> 00:10:13.672
As I was saying,
00:10:13.672 --> 00:10:16.529
being the literal children
of two higher beings would suggest
00:10:16.529 --> 00:10:19.959
that the Knight and all the other
vessels are also higher beings as well.
00:10:20.195 --> 00:10:22.432
This is hinted at for the Hollow Knight at
least
00:10:22.432 --> 00:10:24.832
in the hunters journal entry for the
Pure Vessel,
00:10:24.832 --> 00:10:27.162
which mentions that it has a "holy shell."
00:10:27.263 --> 00:10:30.673
So I don't think this attribute separates
the Knight as being unique
00:10:30.673 --> 00:10:32.383
compared to the other vessels.
00:10:32.519 --> 00:10:35.729
This is an argument you're going to hear
me use a lot in this video.
00:10:35.729 --> 00:10:39.309
A lot of the connections MatPat makes
between the Knight and the Pale King
00:10:39.309 --> 00:10:43.309
can be explained by remembering that the
Knight is the Pale King's child.
00:10:43.515 --> 00:10:45.515
The reason we should interpret it this way
00:10:45.515 --> 00:10:49.325
is because the game explicitly tells us
that the Knight is the Pale King's child,
00:10:49.325 --> 00:10:52.815
while there really isn't anything telling
us that they're the same person.
00:10:53.006 --> 00:10:56.894
After this argument, MatPat brings up the
very beginning of the game:
00:10:56.894 --> 00:10:58.984
The "Elegy For Hallownest."
00:10:59.091 --> 00:11:03.091
MatPat first mentions that the poem itself
isn't about Hallownest
00:11:03.091 --> 00:11:05.111
but is instead about the Pale King.
00:11:05.111 --> 00:11:06.874
[MATPAT] You don't know it
when you start the game,
00:11:06.874 --> 00:11:09.648
but this poem is about the Pale King.
00:11:09.648 --> 00:11:12.906
[MOSSBAG] So this poem is called "Elegy
For Hallownest"
00:11:12.906 --> 00:11:16.192
but the poem itself seems to be addressed
to a person,
00:11:16.192 --> 00:11:18.322
so it's not a stretch to think that the
poem is
00:11:18.322 --> 00:11:20.152
actually talking about the Pale King.
00:11:20.358 --> 00:11:22.358
Hallownest is the Pale King's kingdom,
00:11:22.358 --> 00:11:26.248
and everything that Hallownest offered to
travellers was because of the Pale King.
00:11:26.395 --> 00:11:30.539
The two are so closely entwined that the
poem is pretty much saying the same thing
00:11:30.539 --> 00:11:34.166
regardless of if its addressed to the
personified version of Hallownest
00:11:34.166 --> 00:11:35.886
or to the Pale King himself.
00:11:36.079 --> 00:11:39.549
MatPat then goes into what the
poem means when it says that the Pale King
00:11:39.549 --> 00:11:42.702
"tamed savage souls
and redeemed base instincts."
00:11:42.790 --> 00:11:44.643
[MATPAT] In the beginning of the game's
lore,
00:11:44.643 --> 00:11:49.153
all bugs were basically a hivemind
controlled by the moth god, Radiance.
00:11:49.153 --> 00:11:52.633
The Pale King was the one who expanded
the minds of bugs,
00:11:52.633 --> 00:11:55.263
giving them individuality and sapience,
00:11:55.263 --> 00:11:57.261
showing them, as the poem says,
00:11:57.261 --> 00:11:59.501
"a world that they had never dreamed."
00:11:59.551 --> 00:12:03.111
[MOSSBAG] There really isn't any evidence
that the Radiance's control was widespread
00:12:03.111 --> 00:12:04.851
before the Pale King's arrival.
00:12:05.282 --> 00:12:06.862
I'm not saying it's impossible,
00:12:06.862 --> 00:12:11.232
but another possibility is that the bugs
didn't have individuality or sapience
00:12:11.232 --> 00:12:13.305
because they were living in a wasteland
00:12:13.305 --> 00:12:15.415
similar to what we
see outside of Hallownest.
00:12:15.688 --> 00:12:19.598
Those bugs don't have minds, as it would
be a weakness out in the wild,
00:12:19.598 --> 00:12:22.338
but when the Pale King showed up, he
established a kingdom
00:12:22.338 --> 00:12:24.688
and expanded the minds of these bugs.
00:12:25.056 --> 00:12:27.326
He also drew the
attention of the moth tribe,
00:12:27.326 --> 00:12:29.516
who were at the
time worshipping the Radiance
00:12:29.516 --> 00:12:31.648
but ended up yeeting her out of their
memory,
00:12:31.648 --> 00:12:33.198
causing her to be sealed away.
00:12:33.198 --> 00:12:35.873
The infection and the hivemind might have
been the result
00:12:35.873 --> 00:12:37.483
of the Radiance's imprisonment.
00:12:37.583 --> 00:12:42.003
As the Moss Prophet explains, "To stifle
that light is to suppress nature.
00:12:42.003 --> 00:12:44.803
Nature suppressed distorts, plagues us."
00:12:44.895 --> 00:12:47.033
This implies that the infection is a
byproduct
00:12:47.033 --> 00:12:48.853
of the Radiance being sealed away.
00:12:49.015 --> 00:12:51.945
This makes more sense to me than the
Radiance already having bugs
00:12:51.945 --> 00:12:55.945
enslaved in a hivemind, and then the Pale
King just strolled in and saved them.
00:12:56.001 --> 00:12:58.743
I mean if you look at what is happening in
this animation…
00:12:58.743 --> 00:13:00.888
it doesn't really make sense, does it?
00:13:00.888 --> 00:13:03.278
If the Pale King can
just cure infection like this,
00:13:03.278 --> 00:13:06.608
then what's the point of all the stuff
that happens later with the vessels?
00:13:06.608 --> 00:13:11.608
[MATPAT] It's important to note, too, that
this isn't just a poem about the Pale King
00:13:11.608 --> 00:13:14.102
but it's directed to the Pale King.
00:13:14.102 --> 00:13:15.082
"Your name."
00:13:15.082 --> 00:13:16.452
"You the challenge met."
00:13:16.452 --> 00:13:19.181
And then what do we see appear on screen
just moments later?
00:13:19.181 --> 00:13:19.944
Our Knight.
00:13:19.944 --> 00:13:22.944
It would be one thing if the poem was just
about the Pale King,
00:13:22.944 --> 00:13:25.004
but the fact that it's directed at him
00:13:25.004 --> 00:13:27.390
just seconds before
we actually see our character
00:13:27.390 --> 00:13:28.939
makes it seem like the designers
00:13:28.939 --> 00:13:31.769
are drawing a parallel between this king
of legend
00:13:31.769 --> 00:13:34.489
and our first appearance on screen.
00:13:34.489 --> 00:13:37.413
We are the "you" in that poem.
00:13:37.669 --> 00:13:40.469
[MOSSBAG] … Except there's a whole other
cutscene in between this poem
00:13:40.469 --> 00:13:41.830
and when we see the Knight.
00:13:41.898 --> 00:13:45.008
By this logic, this means that the Hollow
Knight is the Pale King.
00:13:45.176 --> 00:13:48.857
I mean technically we do see Zote moments
after this poem.
00:13:48.857 --> 00:13:52.857
A few thousand moments, maybe… but the
principle still applies.
00:13:53.192 --> 00:13:57.734
But even if the intro cutscene with the
Knight appeared right after the poem,
00:13:57.734 --> 00:13:59.864
I still wouldn't find it very compelling.
00:14:00.139 --> 00:14:02.259
I mean, we are entering Hallownest,
00:14:02.259 --> 00:14:04.818
and the poem is talking about Hallownest
00:14:04.818 --> 00:14:06.792
or at least the person who built it,
00:14:06.792 --> 00:14:09.612
so why does the Knight have to be factored
into this at all?
00:14:09.708 --> 00:14:11.278
Let's move on to Elderbug.
00:14:11.278 --> 00:14:14.722
There are a lot of places you can look to
find information about the Pale King…
00:14:14.722 --> 00:14:16.532
The Elderbug is not one of them.
00:14:16.847 --> 00:14:20.330
As you'll see, I don't think MatPat's
interpretations of Elderbug's dialogue
00:14:20.330 --> 00:14:21.800
makes any sense.
00:14:22.095 --> 00:14:24.635
MatPat argues that Elderbug's dialogue
about dreams
00:14:24.635 --> 00:14:27.015
hints at the Knight being the Pale King.
00:14:27.198 --> 00:14:30.624
[MATPAT] The usage of the
word "dreams" is important,
00:14:30.624 --> 00:14:33.961
since at the beginning of the game, not
knowing the lore of this world,
00:14:33.961 --> 00:14:38.911
we all assume it's just our knight
pursuing the dream of wealth or fame,
00:14:38.911 --> 00:14:40.619
just like the Elderbug says.
00:14:40.619 --> 00:14:45.008
But late in the game we get ourselves an
item called the Dream Nail,
00:14:45.008 --> 00:14:47.067
which is how we
unlock memories of the past,
00:14:47.067 --> 00:14:50.380
and ultimately defeat the Radiance inside
the mind of Hollow Knight.
00:14:50.380 --> 00:14:54.290
It's also the tool that allows us to find
the Pale King's White Palace.
00:14:54.290 --> 00:14:57.790
It is a place that is
literally hidden in dreams.
00:14:57.790 --> 00:15:01.260
So like Elderbug says, we are
seeking our dreams
00:15:01.260 --> 00:15:03.839
in perhaps a very literal sense,
00:15:03.839 --> 00:15:07.859
which is especially true if we are playing
as the Pale King.
00:15:08.175 --> 00:15:10.955
[MOSSBAG] The Knight goes to a lot of
different places in the dream world,
00:15:10.955 --> 00:15:13.504
so I don't know what
makes the White Palace so special.
00:15:13.674 --> 00:15:17.184
This interpretation also ignores the rest
of the Elderbug's dialogue.
00:15:17.504 --> 00:15:21.504
Elderbug goes on to warn about the
infection below, and finishes by saying,
00:15:21.504 --> 00:15:24.384
"Perhaps dreams aren't
such great things after all."
00:15:24.569 --> 00:15:27.439
This dialogue makes sense if we link it
back to the Radiance.
00:15:27.771 --> 00:15:31.141
The Radiance's infection begins by
plaguing the dreams of a bug
00:15:31.141 --> 00:15:33.311
until their will becomes enslaved.
00:15:33.311 --> 00:15:36.514
In fact, the achievement unlocked for
beating the Radiance is called
00:15:36.514 --> 00:15:37.614
"Dream No More."
00:15:37.935 --> 00:15:41.005
So I think this line makes much more sense
if we interpret it as being
00:15:41.005 --> 00:15:42.595
a warning about the Radiance.
00:15:42.912 --> 00:15:45.582
If we interpret those extra lines using
MatPat's reading,
00:15:45.582 --> 00:15:49.691
then the Elderbug is telling us not to go
to the White Palace, I guess?
00:15:49.959 --> 00:15:53.461
Now, it's worth noting that the Elderbug
mentions dreams again,
00:15:53.461 --> 00:15:56.381
when you dream nail him
after giving him the Delicate Flower,
00:15:56.381 --> 00:16:00.121
remarking, "Perhaps dreams
aren't such bad things after all…"
00:16:00.433 --> 00:16:03.733
I think this just shows how the Knight has
restored hope in Elderbug,
00:16:03.733 --> 00:16:06.503
similar to how it restores hope for
Hallownest…
00:16:06.909 --> 00:16:08.459
or something like that.
00:16:08.660 --> 00:16:11.400
MatPat's next point has to do with the
Elderbug's dialogue
00:16:11.400 --> 00:16:13.880
if you initially ignore
him at the start of the game,
00:16:14.259 --> 00:16:15.629
and then come back.
00:16:15.669 --> 00:16:17.799
He'll mention that
he thought he saw a ghost.
00:16:18.153 --> 00:16:22.593
[MATPAT] If we are indeed the Pale King
returning to a land that we once abandoned
00:16:22.593 --> 00:16:25.713
we would indeed be a ghost from the past.
00:16:25.713 --> 00:16:29.413
It's another potentially really clever
play on words that I appreciated.
00:16:29.413 --> 00:16:31.196
Am I reading too much into this?
00:16:31.196 --> 00:16:35.266
Maybe, but again this is clearly a team
who has themselves a literary flair,
00:16:35.266 --> 00:16:38.506
and who like to make you really think
about the words that they're using.
00:16:38.756 --> 00:16:41.196
[MOSSBAG] So MatPat's reading too much
into this.
00:16:41.599 --> 00:16:44.829
Now, to be fair, the word "ghost" might
actually be hinting at
00:16:44.829 --> 00:16:46.479
the Knight's true nature.
00:16:46.772 --> 00:16:50.112
The word ghost is only used nine other
times in the game,
00:16:50.208 --> 00:16:52.878
all of which are from Hornet when talking
to the Knight.
00:16:53.024 --> 00:16:55.995
Hornet calls the Knight a "ghost" because
it is the dead shell
00:16:55.995 --> 00:16:58.325
of a child of the Pale King and
White Lady
00:16:58.325 --> 00:17:01.125
that has been
hollowed out and animated by Void.
00:17:01.239 --> 00:17:04.209
So maybe Elderbug's dialogue is alluding
to that,
00:17:04.329 --> 00:17:08.039
but I still think this is just a common
expression the Elderbug is using.
00:17:08.267 --> 00:17:11.623
The next part of MatPat's video has to do
with how the Knight is recognized
00:17:11.623 --> 00:17:14.566
by a few different people as being
related to the King.
00:17:14.908 --> 00:17:16.568
First up is the White Lady:
00:17:16.769 --> 00:17:19.344
[MATPAT] During one of your interactions
with the White Lady,
00:17:19.344 --> 00:17:20.400
AKA the Queen,
00:17:20.400 --> 00:17:22.110
she outright says to the Knight,
00:17:22.110 --> 00:17:24.161
"Is it more than just a vessel?
00:17:24.161 --> 00:17:27.691
I feel like once again I am
in the presence of my beloved Wyrm."
00:17:27.691 --> 00:17:29.861
Wyrm being another name for the Pale King.
00:17:30.020 --> 00:17:32.882
[MOSSBAG] This dialogue only appears
within a certain context
00:17:32.882 --> 00:17:34.650
that MatPat fails to mention.
00:17:35.137 --> 00:17:38.557
This dialogue is triggered after
the Knight collects the Kingsoul charm.
00:17:38.769 --> 00:17:42.569
This charm is described as symbolizing a
union between two higher beings,
00:17:42.569 --> 00:17:46.179
and pieces of this charm can be found in
the possession of both the White Lady
00:17:46.179 --> 00:17:47.789
and the Pale King's corpse.
00:17:48.474 --> 00:17:51.484
So part of this charm literally came from
the Pale King,
00:17:51.650 --> 00:17:54.384
which means it's no surprise that the
White Lady thinks of him
00:17:54.384 --> 00:17:57.214
when the Knight has it, and only
when the Knight has it.
00:17:57.589 --> 00:18:01.329
Also, when talking to the White Lady with
the Grimmchild charm fully upgraded,
00:18:01.329 --> 00:18:02.449
she says this:
00:18:02.548 --> 00:18:07.468
"Success then for the scarlet heart, and
irony to use my spawn to grow its own."
00:18:07.968 --> 00:18:10.176
She literally calls the Knight her "spawn"
00:18:10.176 --> 00:18:12.976
so I don't think the Knight
is supposed to be her husband.
00:18:13.258 --> 00:18:16.158
Now don't get me wrong, I'm into some
kinky shit,
00:18:16.158 --> 00:18:18.608
but even I think that's too much, man.
00:18:18.764 --> 00:18:20.791
[MATPAT] And she's not the only one who
gets
00:18:20.791 --> 00:18:23.041
kingly vibes from the Player Character.
00:18:23.041 --> 00:18:24.311
The White Defender,
00:18:24.311 --> 00:18:26.479
one of the Pale King's five main knights,
00:18:26.479 --> 00:18:29.183
also has interesting dialogue. Quote:
00:18:29.183 --> 00:18:32.355
"Your noble bearing
reminds me of our dear King."
00:18:32.355 --> 00:18:34.515
So that's two of the King's closest
relations
00:18:34.520 --> 00:18:38.030
being reminded of their dearly departed
when they interact with us.
00:18:38.131 --> 00:18:41.376
[MOSSBAG] You don't need to have the
Kingsoul to fight the White Defender,
00:18:41.376 --> 00:18:44.676
but notice how toned down this line is
from what the White Lady said.
00:18:45.042 --> 00:18:49.189
The White Defender says the Knight reminds
him of the Pale King, which makes sense,
00:18:49.189 --> 00:18:52.679
considering the fact that
the Knight is the child of the Pale King.
00:18:53.053 --> 00:18:56.803
Matt then mentions the royal retainers,
and how they bow to the Knight.
00:18:56.803 --> 00:18:59.533
[MATPAT] Ten out of ten royal retainers
can't be wrong:
00:18:59.533 --> 00:19:03.093
you are royalty, plain and simple.
00:19:03.240 --> 00:19:05.032
[MOSSBAG] Now some
people in the comments section
00:19:05.032 --> 00:19:08.251
were arguing that they only bow if the
Knight has the King's Brand,
00:19:08.531 --> 00:19:09.963
but that's not true.
00:19:09.963 --> 00:19:11.343
They bow regardless.
00:19:11.542 --> 00:19:15.302
This is an argument I've seen a lot from
the people who disagree with MatPat:
00:19:15.387 --> 00:19:18.072
That most of the characters being reminded
of the Pale King
00:19:18.072 --> 00:19:19.352
when looking at the Knight
00:19:19.352 --> 00:19:21.412
can be explained via the King's Brand.
00:19:21.412 --> 00:19:23.432
But you can reach the White Defender
00:19:23.432 --> 00:19:24.461
and the White Palace
00:19:24.461 --> 00:19:26.071
without the King's Brand.
00:19:26.141 --> 00:19:27.811
To my knowledge, the only character
00:19:27.811 --> 00:19:29.863
confirmed to explicitly mistake the Knight
00:19:29.863 --> 00:19:32.043
for the Pale King due to the King's Brand
00:19:32.043 --> 00:19:33.643
is Eternal Emelitia.
00:19:33.775 --> 00:19:37.110
But it doesn't really matter that the
Knight doesn't have the King's Brand,
00:19:37.110 --> 00:19:40.280
because you can still argue that the
royal retainers are bowing
00:19:40.280 --> 00:19:42.500
because the Knight
is related to the Pale King.
00:19:42.838 --> 00:19:46.198
There are statues of the Hollow Knight in
the White Palace, after all.
00:19:46.198 --> 00:19:49.655
Which could mean that they revered the
vessels as well as the Pale King,
00:19:49.655 --> 00:19:53.215
but there are a lot of questions
surrounding the royal retainers.
00:19:53.287 --> 00:19:54.647
If you dream nail them,
00:19:54.647 --> 00:19:56.747
they appear to be
talking to the Pale King.
00:19:56.845 --> 00:19:59.705
They mention things like,
"… We will wait… King…"
00:19:59.705 --> 00:20:02.865
and, "…King… Your troubles… Let us…"
00:20:02.865 --> 00:20:06.522
Another detail worth mentioning is that
the royal retainers explode into essence
00:20:06.522 --> 00:20:07.522
when they are killed,
00:20:07.522 --> 00:20:09.142
leaving no corpse behind.
00:20:09.142 --> 00:20:10.882
So what should we make of this?
00:20:11.267 --> 00:20:13.297
It seems to me like these bugs are unaware
00:20:13.297 --> 00:20:14.597
that the Pale King is dead,
00:20:14.597 --> 00:20:17.034
and are awaiting him to take some sort of
action,
00:20:17.034 --> 00:20:18.994
but are worried about his state of mind.
00:20:19.358 --> 00:20:23.358
The dream nail dialogue doesn't imply that
they recognize the Knight as the Pale King
00:20:23.358 --> 00:20:24.858
who has finally returned,
00:20:24.858 --> 00:20:28.248
but again there's something weird going
on with these guys.
00:20:28.566 --> 00:20:30.546
They seem to be living in the past,
00:20:30.546 --> 00:20:32.816
and are not really
in a lucid state of mind.
00:20:33.136 --> 00:20:37.103
So yeah, I think there's a lot of
mystery surrounding these guys,
00:20:37.103 --> 00:20:38.773
but to sum this section up:
00:20:38.773 --> 00:20:40.983
I still agree with MatPat's point here,
00:20:40.983 --> 00:20:43.183
that being that the Knight is royalty.
00:20:43.539 --> 00:20:47.009
But again, that doesn't help prove this
reincarnation theory,
00:20:47.009 --> 00:20:49.189
because we know that the Knight is royalty
00:20:49.189 --> 00:20:51.469
through it being the Pale King's child.
00:20:51.749 --> 00:20:53.469
MatPat then goes into a discussion
00:20:53.469 --> 00:20:56.142
about how the Pale
King went from his first Wyrm form
00:20:56.362 --> 00:20:58.082
into his second bug form.
00:20:58.291 --> 00:20:59.834
This occurred at Kingdom's Edge,
00:20:59.834 --> 00:21:01.834
where the Wyrm's
corpse can still be found.
00:21:02.225 --> 00:21:05.735
A fat-ass caterpillar named Bardoon
explains that when Wyrms die,
00:21:05.735 --> 00:21:07.093
they don't just die
00:21:07.093 --> 00:21:09.473
but actually transform
into something else.
00:21:09.664 --> 00:21:13.182
[MATPAT] So Bardoon knows the Pale King
spawned out of the Wyrm,
00:21:13.182 --> 00:21:15.415
he clearly says that
the kingdom is his doing,
00:21:15.415 --> 00:21:17.865
but this line of "more transformation"
00:21:17.865 --> 00:21:20.225
seems to imply that the Pale King's death
00:21:20.225 --> 00:21:23.305
would only lead to yet another form.
00:21:23.305 --> 00:21:26.255
Do we think that Team Cherry put this line
in here for no reason?
00:21:26.255 --> 00:21:28.005
I THINK NOT.
00:21:28.005 --> 00:21:30.555
[MOSSBAG] Bardoon isn't saying
"more transformation"
00:21:30.555 --> 00:21:32.818
as in there'll be another transformation.
00:21:33.100 --> 00:21:34.798
He's saying that death, for a Wyrm,
00:21:34.798 --> 00:21:36.708
is more like a transformation.
00:21:36.708 --> 00:21:40.059
Now is there anything in the game
that says the Pale King can or cannot
00:21:40.059 --> 00:21:41.679
transform a second time?
00:21:41.936 --> 00:21:43.036
… Well, no.
00:21:43.290 --> 00:21:46.387
But we don't really have any proof that
the Pale King did transform
00:21:46.387 --> 00:21:47.613
into a third form.
00:21:47.613 --> 00:21:49.377
Let's look at the egg that the Pale King
00:21:49.377 --> 00:21:50.967
hatched out of from the Wyrm.
00:21:51.284 --> 00:21:55.778
Page 111 of the Wanderer's
Journal discusses this transition:
00:21:56.260 --> 00:21:58.750
"What happened to the Wyrm from there
is a mystery;
00:21:58.750 --> 00:22:00.670
"it doesn't appear to have died there,
00:22:00.670 --> 00:22:03.280
"so perhaps it shed its gargantuan form
00:22:03.280 --> 00:22:05.510
"and became something entirely different.
00:22:05.510 --> 00:22:07.230
"Deep within the maw of the carcass,
00:22:07.230 --> 00:22:10.590
a pale, broken egg of some sort hints at
such a rebirth."
00:22:10.902 --> 00:22:13.364
This implies that the Pale King hatched
out of the egg
00:22:13.364 --> 00:22:15.414
inside the cast-off shell of the Wyrm.
00:22:15.746 --> 00:22:18.926
So how exactly does the Pale King's third
form materialize?
00:22:19.280 --> 00:22:20.990
We find his corpse on the throne,
00:22:20.990 --> 00:22:24.030
but we can't go inside of him to check if
there's another egg in there somewhere.
00:22:24.304 --> 00:22:26.854
There's the egg on the right hand side of
the room,
00:22:26.854 --> 00:22:30.244
but that doesn't really seem like
something a creature would hatch from.
00:22:30.244 --> 00:22:33.697
It was probably even made before the Pale
King's second form died,
00:22:33.697 --> 00:22:36.371
since it appears to be written from his
perspective.
00:22:36.371 --> 00:22:38.681
But MatPat has his own theory about all
this,
00:22:38.681 --> 00:22:40.871
so let's table this discussion for now.
00:22:40.950 --> 00:22:43.910
After talking about how the Pale King
might have a third form,
00:22:44.127 --> 00:22:46.507
MatPat begins to explain what Void is,
00:22:46.507 --> 00:22:48.387
where it's found, and how it works.
00:22:48.578 --> 00:22:52.070
He draws our attention to the lore
tablet found in the Pale King's workshop.
00:22:52.070 --> 00:22:55.010
This tablet explains that the Void is
opposed to the Pale King,
00:22:55.010 --> 00:22:58.210
but that Void contains a power to deny
time itself.
00:22:58.369 --> 00:22:59.820
[MATPAT] This quote is interesting.
00:22:59.820 --> 00:23:01.531
Based on the clues in that workroom,
00:23:01.531 --> 00:23:03.207
as well as the game's bestiary,
00:23:03.207 --> 00:23:06.577
we know that the Pale King was using void
to create soldiers:
00:23:06.577 --> 00:23:09.910
the Kingsmoulds and Wingmoulds that
populate his White Palace.
00:23:09.910 --> 00:23:12.320
We also know that he was using Void to
create
00:23:12.320 --> 00:23:14.980
the vessels intended
to trap the infection.
00:23:14.980 --> 00:23:16.380
Vessels like the Hollow Knight,
00:23:16.380 --> 00:23:18.316
which would also include our character.
00:23:18.316 --> 00:23:21.706
But this quote is referencing him using
the Void for yet another purpose.
00:23:21.706 --> 00:23:23.036
A third purpose;
00:23:23.036 --> 00:23:24.306
not fighting the Radiance;
00:23:24.306 --> 00:23:25.786
not protecting his castle;
00:23:25.786 --> 00:23:28.658
but instead fighting time itself.
00:23:28.658 --> 00:23:32.530
He wants to use the Void to achieve
eternal life.
00:23:32.530 --> 00:23:33.393
For himself?
00:23:33.393 --> 00:23:34.263
For his kingdom?
00:23:34.263 --> 00:23:35.133
It's unclear,
00:23:35.133 --> 00:23:38.033
but it once again gives credence to the
idea that,
00:23:38.033 --> 00:23:39.313
in his next life,
00:23:39.313 --> 00:23:43.199
he would choose to rebirth himself as a
Void-based creature.
00:23:43.199 --> 00:23:45.847
One not bound by the restrictions of time.
00:23:45.847 --> 00:23:48.117
One just like our Knight.
00:23:48.117 --> 00:23:50.417
[MOSSBAG] I kind of agree with a little
bit of this…
00:23:50.417 --> 00:23:51.517
but not really.
00:23:52.022 --> 00:23:55.152
I think the purpose of "denying time"
refers to the Radiance,
00:23:55.152 --> 00:23:56.822
who the Pale King is trying to stop
00:23:56.822 --> 00:23:59.272
in order to keep his kingdom lasting
eternally.
00:23:59.539 --> 00:24:02.039
There are several bits of dialogue to look
over here.
00:24:02.299 --> 00:24:06.939
Both Hornet and the Hive Queen Vespa refer
to Hallownest as being in "perpetuation."
00:24:07.094 --> 00:24:09.434
Or, in other words, "frozen in time."
00:24:09.702 --> 00:24:12.852
Monomon calls Hallownest
"a world forever unchanging."
00:24:13.146 --> 00:24:16.666
Both Hornet and the Mask Maker mention
that the kingdom is in stasis.
00:24:17.010 --> 00:24:20.470
And then we have the dialogue directly
connecting all this to the Hollow Knight.
00:24:20.754 --> 00:24:23.054
The monuments to the Hollow Knight and
the Dreamers
00:24:23.054 --> 00:24:24.934
mention that through their actions
00:24:24.934 --> 00:24:26.354
Hallownest lasts eternal.
00:24:26.593 --> 00:24:29.137
The lore tablet in the White Palace
throne room reads,
00:24:29.137 --> 00:24:32.647
"Eternity in promise and charge in progeny
cursed."
00:24:32.952 --> 00:24:35.062
This line is likely referring to how the
Pale King
00:24:35.062 --> 00:24:37.167
planned to keep his kingdom lasting
eternally
00:24:37.167 --> 00:24:39.622
by somehow cursing his descendants.
00:24:39.622 --> 00:24:41.413
And that's exactly what he did:
00:24:41.413 --> 00:24:43.323
the Hollow Knight is described by Hornet
00:24:43.323 --> 00:24:45.173
as being "our birth-cursed sibling,"
00:24:45.362 --> 00:24:49.257
and Hornet has dream nail dialogue during
the Greenpath fight that reads,
00:24:49.257 --> 00:24:51.657
"Only pity for your cursed kind."
00:24:51.885 --> 00:24:54.295
All of this is done to hold back the
Radiance.
00:24:54.471 --> 00:24:57.791
The Radiance is alluded to as being a
force of nature by Bardoon,
00:24:57.791 --> 00:24:58.761
the Moss Prophet,
00:24:58.761 --> 00:25:00.181
and Hive Queen Vespa.
00:25:00.372 --> 00:25:02.515
The Radiance is the inevitable dawn
00:25:02.515 --> 00:25:04.765
that will eventually
break over the horizon.
00:25:04.978 --> 00:25:07.028
Now dev notes aren't necessarily canon,
00:25:07.028 --> 00:25:10.385
but there are also dev notes explaining
that the kingdom is in stasis,
00:25:10.385 --> 00:25:13.695
and that the events of Hollow Knight take
place over one long night.
00:25:13.971 --> 00:25:15.251
So to recap:
00:25:15.251 --> 00:25:18.691
the "deny time" line from the
tablet in the Pale King's workshop
00:25:18.691 --> 00:25:22.111
is probably referring to how the Pale King
planned to create a Vessel
00:25:22.111 --> 00:25:24.991
that could be used
to deny the arrival of the Radiance,
00:25:24.991 --> 00:25:28.111
placing all of Hallownest
in some kind of stasis.
00:25:28.251 --> 00:25:31.285
Nothing implies that the Pale King was
doing this to himself.
00:25:31.285 --> 00:25:34.597
I would argue that Void could never give
the Pale King eternal life;
00:25:34.597 --> 00:25:36.337
the Void is the power opposed,
00:25:36.337 --> 00:25:39.287
so it would probably kill him if he tried
to fuse with it.
00:25:39.624 --> 00:25:43.204
After all, we know that the vessels were
killed by the Void,
00:25:43.204 --> 00:25:45.484
since the White Lady mentions that the
Knight died
00:25:45.484 --> 00:25:47.304
in the birthplace where it was born.
00:25:47.438 --> 00:25:50.138
[MATPAT] Making this connection even more
interesting
00:25:50.138 --> 00:25:51.058
are the eggs.
00:25:51.058 --> 00:25:52.728
Just outside the
Pale King's throne room
00:25:52.728 --> 00:25:55.438
is a lore tablet
housed inside of a black egg.
00:25:55.438 --> 00:25:58.118
A tablet that speaks of the ancient Wyrm
00:25:58.118 --> 00:25:59.515
becoming the Pale King.
00:25:59.515 --> 00:26:04.415
It seems to suggest that this egg here is
where version 1.0 of the Pale King
00:26:04.415 --> 00:26:07.395
hatched into its
upgraded form… as it were.
00:26:07.395 --> 00:26:10.633
And now look at the birthplace of our
Knight down in the Abyss:
00:26:10.633 --> 00:26:12.293
a similar black egg.
00:26:12.293 --> 00:26:15.392
Could it be where version 2.0 transformed
yet again?
00:26:15.566 --> 00:26:18.719
[MOSSBAG] I don't believe the
phrase "The Wyrm becomes beacon"
00:26:18.719 --> 00:26:21.229
is talking about
the Pale King's transformation.
00:26:21.229 --> 00:26:25.069
I think this sentence is about how the
Pale King expanded the minds of bugs.
00:26:25.123 --> 00:26:28.823
Basically, the Pale King was able to grant
bugs sapience through his beacon,
00:26:28.823 --> 00:26:31.373
but we don't really
have a lot of information on this.
00:26:31.492 --> 00:26:35.492
If I had to guess, I'd say it might be
some sort of metaphysical power.
00:26:35.821 --> 00:26:39.171
The word beacon is used only
one other time in the whole game,
00:26:39.171 --> 00:26:40.721
and it's by the Godseeker.
00:26:40.721 --> 00:26:42.941
She says, "Even long departed,
00:26:42.941 --> 00:26:46.171
"we feel the afterglow of
the God-power that sat this throne…
00:26:46.171 --> 00:26:48.051
"It lays heavy upon this kingdom.
00:26:48.051 --> 00:26:51.692
"That lingering power alone was
beacon enough to draw Us to Hallownest.
00:26:51.692 --> 00:26:54.982
How bright it must have been to mortal
bug stood before it."
00:26:55.157 --> 00:26:57.627
So the afterglow of
the Pale King's God-power
00:26:57.627 --> 00:26:59.947
acted as a beacon for the Godseekers.
00:27:00.254 --> 00:27:03.874
Is this the same concept as the beacon
mentioned in the lore tablet?
00:27:03.874 --> 00:27:05.864
MatPat appears to think "beacon"
00:27:05.864 --> 00:27:08.694
is another name
for the Pale King's smaller form,
00:27:09.003 --> 00:27:10.803
which I guess is possible,
00:27:10.803 --> 00:27:12.613
but it's kind of a weird name.
00:27:13.026 --> 00:27:14.664
When I see this,
00:27:14.664 --> 00:27:16.364
I don't really think of this.
00:27:16.528 --> 00:27:19.068
I'm a little
confused by MatPat's next point.
00:27:19.317 --> 00:27:20.385
Like I said earlier,
00:27:20.385 --> 00:27:23.381
there's evidence to suggest that the egg
the Pale King was hatched from
00:27:23.381 --> 00:27:25.151
is found in the cast-off shell
00:27:25.151 --> 00:27:26.311
in Kingdom's Edge.
00:27:26.630 --> 00:27:29.673
Here, MatPat is arguing that the egg in
the throne room
00:27:29.673 --> 00:27:31.553
is what the Pale King hatched from.
00:27:31.553 --> 00:27:33.132
What's confusing to me is that
00:27:33.132 --> 00:27:36.163
earlier in the video, it's implied that
the cast-off shell egg
00:27:36.163 --> 00:27:38.173
was what the Pale King hatched from.
00:27:38.236 --> 00:27:40.486
[MATPAT] It is clearly established in the
lore
00:27:40.486 --> 00:27:43.206
that the King has
the ability to transform.
00:27:43.206 --> 00:27:47.206
In fact, the Pale King form is actually
his version 2.0.
00:27:47.232 --> 00:27:49.361
[MOSSBAG] I don't know if there was some
miscommunication
00:27:49.361 --> 00:27:51.382
between MatPat and one of his editors,
00:27:51.382 --> 00:27:53.458
or if there was
a script change or something,
00:27:53.458 --> 00:27:55.918
but I figured I'd point this out because…
00:27:55.918 --> 00:27:56.618
It's…
00:27:56.618 --> 00:27:57.318
weird.
00:27:57.588 --> 00:27:59.078
The video gets it right initially,
00:27:59.078 --> 00:28:01.558
but then contradicts itself a few minutes
later.
00:28:01.958 --> 00:28:04.508
So it seems unlikely that the Pale King
was hatched
00:28:04.508 --> 00:28:06.028
from the egg in the throne room,
00:28:06.028 --> 00:28:08.268
so what exactly is going on with this egg?
00:28:08.734 --> 00:28:10.024
Honestly, I don't know.
00:28:10.024 --> 00:28:11.544
There are a few other eggs in the game
00:28:11.544 --> 00:28:14.054
that appear to store information similar
to this one.
00:28:14.054 --> 00:28:16.374
The egg-looking things
found in the King's Pass,
00:28:16.374 --> 00:28:19.204
Ancient Basin, and Black Egg are all lore
tablets.
00:28:19.460 --> 00:28:23.170
We also know that the arcane eggs were
used to store information somehow.
00:28:23.170 --> 00:28:26.470
Is this egg similar to those eggs in its
creation and design?
00:28:26.753 --> 00:28:27.563
On the other hand,
00:28:27.563 --> 00:28:30.703
the floor here is similar
to the floor found in the Black Egg
00:28:30.703 --> 00:28:32.503
so maybe it's related to that.
00:28:32.503 --> 00:28:33.420
Regardless,
00:28:33.420 --> 00:28:37.240
it seems pretty unlikely that
the Pale King was born from this egg,
00:28:37.240 --> 00:28:40.010
given that the Wanderer's Journal
does everything short of flat-out
00:28:40.010 --> 00:28:42.870
saying he hatched from the egg in the
cast-off shell.
00:28:42.870 --> 00:28:46.870
Finally, MatPat questions whether or not
the Pale King's third form was born out of
00:28:46.870 --> 00:28:48.510
this egg in the Abyss;
00:28:48.510 --> 00:28:50.750
the one our Knight was presumably born
from.
00:28:51.052 --> 00:28:53.552
This is where things go really
off the rails.
00:28:53.794 --> 00:28:56.024
Remember how I mentioned before that
the Knight
00:28:56.024 --> 00:28:59.104
and the Pale King show up in the same room
at one point?
00:28:59.104 --> 00:29:01.284
Well that happens in a cutscene that can
be triggered
00:29:01.284 --> 00:29:03.944
after the Knight strikes its own
reflection on this egg
00:29:03.944 --> 00:29:05.194
with the Dream Nail.
00:29:05.355 --> 00:29:06.715
In this sequence,
00:29:06.715 --> 00:29:08.800
the Knight climbs to the top of the Abyss.
00:29:08.895 --> 00:29:09.795
When they get there,
00:29:09.795 --> 00:29:11.255
they see the Pale King leaving
00:29:11.255 --> 00:29:13.535
alongside a younger version of the Hollow
Knight
00:29:13.535 --> 00:29:17.005
that looks back before the Knight
plunges back into the darkness.
00:29:17.221 --> 00:29:18.501
After this cutscene
00:29:18.501 --> 00:29:20.841
the Kingsoul charm turns into the
Void Heart,
00:29:20.841 --> 00:29:24.361
a charm required to unlock the four
alternate endings to the game.
00:29:24.441 --> 00:29:28.301
This cutscene is arguably one of the most
important moments in the game,
00:29:28.301 --> 00:29:31.211
showing the Pale King at one of his lowest
points
00:29:31.211 --> 00:29:33.791
choosing to sacrifice his children to the
Void
00:29:33.791 --> 00:29:35.931
in order to create a pure vessel.
00:29:36.131 --> 00:29:39.511
There's a lot of dialogue and symbolism
surrounding this event,
00:29:39.511 --> 00:29:42.441
and none of it hints at the Pale King
becoming the Knight.
00:29:42.593 --> 00:29:44.343
Let's look at the Kingsoul again.
00:29:44.490 --> 00:29:47.830
This charm symbolizes the union between
two higher beings.
00:29:47.830 --> 00:29:49.130
In other words,
00:29:49.130 --> 00:29:51.800
this charm represents the children of the
Pale King.
00:29:51.800 --> 00:29:54.040
When talking to the White Lady with this
charm,
00:29:54.040 --> 00:29:56.910
she will tell the Knight to visit that
place where it was born,
00:29:56.910 --> 00:29:58.010
where it died,
00:29:58.010 --> 00:29:59.350
where it all began.
00:29:59.778 --> 00:30:01.568
She's referring to an area in the Abyss
00:30:01.568 --> 00:30:04.178
described as a birthplace by the Kingsoul
charm.
00:30:04.402 --> 00:30:05.542
In this location,
00:30:05.542 --> 00:30:07.222
the Knight finds its birthplace:
00:30:07.222 --> 00:30:09.519
an egg, connected to Void tendrils.
00:30:09.900 --> 00:30:12.120
After experiencing the birthplace
cutscene,
00:30:12.120 --> 00:30:14.440
the Kingsoul turns into the Void Heart.
00:30:14.440 --> 00:30:17.260
This is symbolic of the children of the
Pale King and White Lady
00:30:17.260 --> 00:30:19.560
becoming corrupted by the Void itself.
00:30:19.760 --> 00:30:21.668
That's what the Pale King means when he
says
00:30:21.668 --> 00:30:25.248
"…Soul of Wyrm. Soul of Root.
Heart of Void…"
00:30:25.426 --> 00:30:27.506
The Knight acquiring the Void Heart
00:30:27.506 --> 00:30:30.466
symbolizes how it has come to terms
with its past.
00:30:30.510 --> 00:30:33.500
In fact, the achievement you get after
this cutscene
00:30:33.500 --> 00:30:36.210
strongly implies it's
a scene from the past.
00:30:36.370 --> 00:30:38.190
The Void achievement reads,
00:30:38.190 --> 00:30:40.890
"Remember the past and unite the Abyss."
00:30:40.890 --> 00:30:43.100
The White Lady also
remarks on this, saying,
00:30:43.100 --> 00:30:46.440
"Truly, it has been transformed by the
revelations it found."
00:30:46.630 --> 00:30:47.610
In summary,
00:30:47.610 --> 00:30:49.880
this scene is showing
a memory from the Knight
00:30:49.880 --> 00:30:51.740
when it was discarded into the Abyss
00:30:51.740 --> 00:30:52.940
by the Pale King.
00:30:53.349 --> 00:30:54.329
So in other words,
00:30:54.329 --> 00:30:55.849
it's completely impossible
00:30:55.849 --> 00:30:57.969
for the Pale King to hatch out of this egg
00:30:57.969 --> 00:31:00.019
if what we see here is a memory.
00:31:00.099 --> 00:31:01.649
And like the achievement said,
00:31:01.649 --> 00:31:05.099
the cutscene allows the Knight to remember
its past.
00:31:05.402 --> 00:31:08.622
Now, MatPat didn't mention this cutscene
at all in his video;
00:31:08.622 --> 00:31:11.492
however, he did leave a pinned comment
addressing the issue.
00:31:11.691 --> 00:31:15.781
He says that he cut the part talking about
this scene from the video for both time
00:31:15.781 --> 00:31:19.741
and because it was "too complicated for
the tone he was looking for in the video."
00:31:20.151 --> 00:31:21.331
For his first point,
00:31:21.331 --> 00:31:24.361
videos on YouTube can be much longer
than 20 minutes
00:31:24.361 --> 00:31:26.441
so that's no excuse, in my opinion.
00:31:26.664 --> 00:31:29.844
I get that The Game Theorists is a big
channel with employees;
00:31:30.174 --> 00:31:31.094
schedules;
00:31:31.383 --> 00:31:33.693
semi-annual office blood rituals;
00:31:33.822 --> 00:31:34.582
overhead;
00:31:34.781 --> 00:31:35.719
low toner;
00:31:36.148 --> 00:31:38.338
shit that I mostly
don't have to worry about.
00:31:38.510 --> 00:31:40.700
But if your format is forcing you to cut
00:31:40.700 --> 00:31:42.920
crucial information out of your videos,
00:31:42.920 --> 00:31:45.590
which are trying to provide persuasive
arguments,
00:31:45.590 --> 00:31:47.610
then you need to do some retooling.
00:31:47.768 --> 00:31:50.098
As for his second point, I agree.
00:31:50.098 --> 00:31:51.838
It does complicate things,
00:31:51.838 --> 00:31:55.558
especially considering it debunks his
entire video if he can't counter it.
00:31:55.758 --> 00:31:57.234
But it's not that big of a deal
00:31:57.234 --> 00:31:59.154
since MatPat tackled the counterargument
00:31:59.154 --> 00:32:00.784
in this pinned comment.
00:32:00.919 --> 00:32:02.429
So let's see what he's got.
00:32:02.429 --> 00:32:05.359
First he says that the Pale King is
"transparent" in this scene,
00:32:05.359 --> 00:32:07.899
which might hint at him not really being
there.
00:32:08.224 --> 00:32:10.734
I have no idea what MatPat is talking
about here.
00:32:10.734 --> 00:32:13.514
The Pale King does have a glow around him
in this scene,
00:32:13.514 --> 00:32:15.944
but the Pale King has been described as
being a light
00:32:15.944 --> 00:32:17.914
or giving off a light by Seer,
00:32:17.914 --> 00:32:19.270
the Archive tablets,
00:32:19.270 --> 00:32:20.800
the Throne Room tablets,
00:32:20.800 --> 00:32:21.850
the Last Stag,
00:32:21.850 --> 00:32:23.290
and Eternal Emelitia.
00:32:23.494 --> 00:32:26.604
So the transparency argument is debunked
by…
00:32:26.604 --> 00:32:28.327
having eyes.
00:32:28.728 --> 00:32:32.528
Then MatPat says that because the
birthplace cutscene is a dream sequence,
00:32:32.528 --> 00:32:34.918
technically anything is possible.
00:32:35.028 --> 00:32:35.778
Which…
00:32:36.316 --> 00:32:37.066
…um…
00:32:37.286 --> 00:32:38.866
[JUSTIN] I give it to
you, you got me there.
00:32:39.851 --> 00:32:40.932
[MOSSBAG] I mean, sure,
00:32:40.932 --> 00:32:42.251
anything is possible.
00:32:42.571 --> 00:32:45.051
Hell, maybe Ronald McDonald
was there too,
00:32:45.051 --> 00:32:46.531
but the Knight suppressed that memory
00:32:46.531 --> 00:32:48.511
so much that we just can't see him.
00:32:48.511 --> 00:32:50.691
There are a lot of different ways to
interpret something,
00:32:50.691 --> 00:32:51.962
but the best interpretations
00:32:51.962 --> 00:32:53.642
are the ones that
line up with what we know
00:32:53.642 --> 00:32:55.392
about the rest of the game's lore.
00:32:55.542 --> 00:32:58.972
If we just assume that this is the Knight
remembering its own past,
00:32:58.972 --> 00:33:01.682
like the achievement message strongly
implies,
00:33:01.682 --> 00:33:04.012
then there aren't really any problems with
this cutscene.
00:33:04.234 --> 00:33:07.034
But if we think the Pale King later turns
into the Knight,
00:33:07.034 --> 00:33:09.704
then this whole scene becomes a complete
mess.
00:33:09.897 --> 00:33:13.737
This is the moment the Knight has a huge
revelation about its true nature.
00:33:13.857 --> 00:33:16.337
How exactly is this scene revealing to the
Knight
00:33:16.337 --> 00:33:17.997
that it is the Pale King?
00:33:18.326 --> 00:33:20.755
You'd think that this moment would at
least hint at it,
00:33:20.755 --> 00:33:22.836
and not completely contradict it.
00:33:23.128 --> 00:33:24.938
Why does this scene exist at all?
00:33:25.117 --> 00:33:26.647
What's the point of it?
00:33:26.804 --> 00:33:29.964
The weight of this entire scene is
neutered by MatPat's theory.
00:33:30.381 --> 00:33:32.551
It no longer becomes an emotional moment
00:33:32.551 --> 00:33:34.341
showing how the Knight was discarded
00:33:34.341 --> 00:33:36.621
just like the other thousands of vessels,
00:33:36.621 --> 00:33:39.081
but instead this scene becomes an eyesore;
00:33:39.081 --> 00:33:42.241
a loose end to a theory that sounds cool
on the surface,
00:33:42.241 --> 00:33:44.991
but doesn't resonate with what we see in
the game.
00:33:45.383 --> 00:33:47.623
But I've been talking for way too long.
00:33:47.726 --> 00:33:49.426
Let's get back to MatPat.
00:33:49.623 --> 00:33:52.073
He then mentions how the nursery song in
the White Palace
00:33:52.073 --> 00:33:55.313
is the same song we hear when the Knight
is next to its shade.
00:33:55.693 --> 00:33:58.333
He then mentions the journal entry for the
shade.
00:33:58.505 --> 00:34:00.655
[MATPAT] The description of these shadows
reads,
00:34:00.655 --> 00:34:02.470
"Echo of a previous life.
00:34:02.470 --> 00:34:05.370
"Each of us leaves an imprint of something
when we die.
00:34:05.370 --> 00:34:07.170
A stain on the world."
00:34:07.170 --> 00:34:10.720
So the sound that accompanies our
Knight's past life
00:34:10.720 --> 00:34:12.998
coincides with the same sound
00:34:12.998 --> 00:34:16.208
from a nursery housed inside the Pale
King's palace?
00:34:16.208 --> 00:34:19.698
The existence of a connection between our
Knight and the Pale King
00:34:19.698 --> 00:34:21.192
seems undeniable.
00:34:21.491 --> 00:34:24.221
[MOSSBAG] I think there's a much
better interpretation for this.
00:34:24.401 --> 00:34:27.211
After the Pale King chose the Hollow
Knight as the Vessel,
00:34:27.211 --> 00:34:29.661
the Hollow Knight likely lived in the
White Palace.
00:34:30.008 --> 00:34:33.478
We even see that this is the case in the
Path of Pain cutscene.
00:34:33.478 --> 00:34:36.518
So chances are the Hollow Knight was kept
in this crib.
00:34:36.619 --> 00:34:39.249
The Hollow Knight is, of course, similar
to the Knight
00:34:39.249 --> 00:34:42.249
in that it is a child of the Pale King and
the White Lady,
00:34:42.249 --> 00:34:44.909
and it also has a shade similar to the
Knight.
00:34:45.179 --> 00:34:47.419
Connecting this nursery song to the Pale
King
00:34:47.419 --> 00:34:49.299
to say he became a Void creature
00:34:49.299 --> 00:34:50.739
is a much bigger leap.
00:34:50.903 --> 00:34:53.852
And it also has another
problem that I will get into shortly.
00:34:53.852 --> 00:34:54.573
But first,
00:34:54.573 --> 00:34:56.813
let me play another
section of MatPat's video.
00:34:57.140 --> 00:34:59.930
[MATPAT] It's almost as if the King laid
the groundwork
00:34:59.930 --> 00:35:01.740
for him to be reborn as Void,
00:35:01.740 --> 00:35:02.350
died,
00:35:02.350 --> 00:35:05.260
was hatched of Void from the black egg
in the Abyss,
00:35:05.260 --> 00:35:07.650
was taken back to the Palace to be raised
00:35:07.650 --> 00:35:09.450
and was eventually sent away from the
kingdom
00:35:09.450 --> 00:35:11.200
to avoid succumbing to the infection,
00:35:11.200 --> 00:35:13.690
only to be called back when he was older
00:35:13.690 --> 00:35:16.260
and when the Hollow Knight started losing
control.
00:35:16.260 --> 00:35:17.060
[MOSSBAG] Okay,
00:35:17.060 --> 00:35:18.790
let's take this piece by piece.
00:35:19.157 --> 00:35:21.845
First, MatPat says that the King
"laid the groundwork
00:35:21.845 --> 00:35:23.675
for him to be reborn as Void."
00:35:24.180 --> 00:35:25.910
There is no evidence for this.
00:35:26.021 --> 00:35:28.041
I'm guessing MatPat is basing this off of
00:35:28.041 --> 00:35:30.801
the "deny time" section of the workshop
tablet,
00:35:30.801 --> 00:35:33.301
but again I don't
think the tablet is referring
00:35:33.301 --> 00:35:36.661
to the Pale King's desire to become
a Void creature, at all.
00:35:37.091 --> 00:35:39.471
Next, he says that the Pale King died.
00:35:39.788 --> 00:35:42.885
[♪ 'For The Damaged Coda' by
Blonde Redhead ♪]
00:35:42.885 --> 00:35:43.135
(RIP glowing fork man)
00:35:43.135 --> 00:35:43.855
Damn.
00:35:44.025 --> 00:35:46.785
I actually completely agree with MatPat on
this one.
00:35:47.095 --> 00:35:48.805
This calls for a celebration.
00:35:48.901 --> 00:35:52.901
[♪ 'Celebration' by Kool & The Gang ♪]
00:35:52.901 --> 00:35:54.331
He then says the Pale King was
00:35:54.331 --> 00:35:56.632
"hatched of Void from the black egg
in the Abyss."
00:35:57.302 --> 00:35:58.952
I don't think that is the case.
00:35:59.190 --> 00:36:01.640
We see that the first transformation of
the Pale King
00:36:01.640 --> 00:36:03.972
was from an egg inside the Wyrm corpse,
00:36:03.972 --> 00:36:05.662
but for his second transformation
00:36:05.662 --> 00:36:07.842
he somehow died in the White Palace
00:36:07.842 --> 00:36:10.669
and turned into an egg larger than his
own body,
00:36:10.669 --> 00:36:13.939
and then the egg was somehow transported
to the Abyss
00:36:13.939 --> 00:36:16.769
despite the fact that the gateway to the
Abyss was sealed.
00:36:16.769 --> 00:36:18.736
Now, in his pinned comment
00:36:18.736 --> 00:36:21.596
MatPat pointed out an issue that I think
is valid.
00:36:21.684 --> 00:36:24.074
He asked how exactly were the vessels even
able
00:36:24.074 --> 00:36:26.384
to escape the Abyss in the first place.
00:36:26.937 --> 00:36:30.307
This has been a pretty big question in the
lore for a while now.
00:36:30.644 --> 00:36:32.034
In a Reddit AMA,
00:36:32.034 --> 00:36:34.984
Team Cherry mentioned that they weren't
sure how it happened.
00:36:34.984 --> 00:36:37.414
So yeah, they're pretty much useless as
usual.
00:36:37.744 --> 00:36:40.494
This issue can kinda counter my argument
here;
00:36:40.494 --> 00:36:43.044
if there are multiple entrances to the
Abyss
00:36:43.044 --> 00:36:45.614
then of course they could get the egg back
down there.
00:36:45.785 --> 00:36:47.555
I still don't buy that explanation
00:36:47.555 --> 00:36:50.505
but I do have a theory about how the
vessels escaped.
00:36:50.771 --> 00:36:52.761
In the bottom right corner of Deepnest,
00:36:52.761 --> 00:36:55.891
there's an area that has clearly been
influenced by the Void
00:36:56.066 --> 00:36:57.676
and not far from there
00:36:57.676 --> 00:37:01.676
we can see that several vessels have
been captured by Nosk in its lair.
00:37:01.768 --> 00:37:03.693
So there might be some hidden passage
00:37:03.693 --> 00:37:05.686
between the Abyss and Deepnest
00:37:05.686 --> 00:37:08.066
that the vessels were able to navigate
through.
00:37:08.126 --> 00:37:08.808
Next
00:37:08.808 --> 00:37:10.348
MatPat says that the Pale King was
00:37:10.348 --> 00:37:12.718
"taken back to the White Palace to be
raised."
00:37:12.946 --> 00:37:15.226
So who exactly raised the Pale King?
00:37:15.480 --> 00:37:17.390
Was it the White Lady then?
00:37:17.460 --> 00:37:19.960
That's likely her silhouette on the chair,
right?
00:37:20.131 --> 00:37:22.661
Does this mean the White Lady is in on
the plan too?
00:37:22.661 --> 00:37:23.966
Because if that's the case,
00:37:23.966 --> 00:37:25.326
I have a few issues.
00:37:25.525 --> 00:37:26.355
First of all,
00:37:26.355 --> 00:37:30.535
why doesn't she recognize the Pale King
immediately if she literally raised him?
00:37:30.535 --> 00:37:32.495
Why does she call the Knight her spawn?
00:37:32.495 --> 00:37:33.955
But my bigger issue here
00:37:33.955 --> 00:37:36.935
is what the White Lady says when the
Knight first meets her.
00:37:37.404 --> 00:37:38.354
She says,
00:37:38.354 --> 00:37:39.554
"One arrives.
00:37:39.554 --> 00:37:41.353
"Far it walks to find me.
00:37:41.353 --> 00:37:42.705
"Did it seek my aid?
00:37:42.705 --> 00:37:45.975
"Or did the path carry it by chance to so
pertinent a place?
00:37:45.975 --> 00:37:47.045
"It is true.
00:37:47.045 --> 00:37:48.795
"True, that you were awaited.
00:37:48.795 --> 00:37:51.372
"No. Perhaps that is inaccurate.
00:37:51.372 --> 00:37:53.812
True one like you was awaited."
00:37:53.905 --> 00:37:55.915
Pay attention to how she talks.
00:37:55.975 --> 00:37:59.345
The White Lady is indeed waiting for a
vessel to come find her,
00:37:59.345 --> 00:38:01.825
but not any one vessel in particular.
00:38:01.825 --> 00:38:05.185
She says "one like you was awaited."
00:38:05.275 --> 00:38:07.365
She is looking for any vessel,
00:38:07.365 --> 00:38:08.845
not a specific one.
00:38:09.016 --> 00:38:11.306
If she was in on the Pale King's plan,
00:38:11.306 --> 00:38:13.966
then why wouldn't she be looking for him
specifically?
00:38:14.073 --> 00:38:16.173
And if she isn't in on the plan,
00:38:16.173 --> 00:38:18.553
what's the deal with her silhouette on the
chair?
00:38:18.667 --> 00:38:21.967
MatPat finishes by saying that the Pale
King was sent away
00:38:21.967 --> 00:38:23.897
to avoid succumbing to the infection,
00:38:23.897 --> 00:38:26.117
and then was brought back when he was
older.
00:38:26.247 --> 00:38:28.657
I don't really have any issues with this
section
00:38:28.657 --> 00:38:31.837
but I do have a broader issue with the
theory that I'd like to talk about.
00:38:31.997 --> 00:38:34.417
According to the Hollow Knight game manual
00:38:34.417 --> 00:38:37.547
the Pale King went into hiding as his
kingdom fell to ruin.
00:38:37.695 --> 00:38:40.135
Relic Seeker Lemm mentions that the Pale
King's palace
00:38:40.135 --> 00:38:42.575
disappeared without any sign of struggle,
00:38:42.575 --> 00:38:44.375
and in the Wanderer's Journal
00:38:44.375 --> 00:38:47.605
Ellina mentions that it appears as though
the Pale King took the White Palace
00:38:47.605 --> 00:38:49.955
and his court with him when he fled.
00:38:50.293 --> 00:38:52.392
So if MatPat's theory is true,
00:38:52.392 --> 00:38:55.042
then how does this information fit with
the lore?
00:38:55.042 --> 00:38:57.682
Is the game manual just completely wrong,
00:38:57.682 --> 00:39:00.182
and what's the deal with the White Palace
disappearing?
00:39:00.182 --> 00:39:02.562
If the Pale King didn't use it to hide in,
00:39:02.562 --> 00:39:04.622
then why is it even in the dream world?
00:39:04.622 --> 00:39:07.322
How exactly did the Pale King get out of
the White Palace
00:39:07.322 --> 00:39:08.892
if it had a seal on it?
00:39:08.942 --> 00:39:11.272
MatPat doesn't really address any of this,
00:39:11.272 --> 00:39:15.192
even though it's probably the most
relevant pieces of information related
00:39:15.192 --> 00:39:17.482
to what actually happened to the Pale King
00:39:17.482 --> 00:39:19.192
after the Hollow Knight was sealed.
00:39:19.392 --> 00:39:20.332
Moving on,
00:39:20.332 --> 00:39:21.752
MatPat explains how the line
00:39:21.752 --> 00:39:23.262
"No cost too great"
00:39:23.262 --> 00:39:25.612
that the Pale King says when you dream
nail him
00:39:25.612 --> 00:39:28.832
could be referring to how he sacrificed
himself to become the Knight
00:39:28.832 --> 00:39:30.932
and take on the infection himself.
00:39:30.932 --> 00:39:34.302
The line is also used at the beginning of
the birthplace memory,
00:39:34.302 --> 00:39:36.142
so the first time the Pale King says it,
00:39:36.142 --> 00:39:38.822
it's definitely referring to the creation
of the vessels.
00:39:39.293 --> 00:39:43.333
But I'm not against the phrase being
recontextualized to mean something else,
00:39:43.333 --> 00:39:46.033
I just don't think there's enough evidence
to really prove that.
00:39:46.233 --> 00:39:50.613
MatPat then gives more evidence for why
the Knight being a reincarnated Pale King
00:39:50.613 --> 00:39:51.613
makes sense.
00:39:51.942 --> 00:39:54.462
[MATPAT] The Knight being a reincarnated
Pale King
00:39:54.462 --> 00:39:56.692
would explain how a nameless, faceless
knight
00:39:56.692 --> 00:39:59.715
is so easily able to accept the
King's Brand item
00:39:59.715 --> 00:40:02.225
which outright marks him as a king.
00:40:02.225 --> 00:40:04.265
[MOSSBAG] I don't think that's the case.
00:40:04.375 --> 00:40:06.355
The King's Brand is guarded by Hornet,
00:40:06.355 --> 00:40:09.615
which makes me think that getting the
brand itself isn't hard,
00:40:09.615 --> 00:40:11.975
but Hornet doesn't want others getting to
it
00:40:11.975 --> 00:40:14.505
unless they can prove their strength
like the Knight did.
00:40:14.791 --> 00:40:16.221
We also have Hornet saying this
00:40:16.221 --> 00:40:18.941
when she hints for the player
to go to the Kingdom's Edge:
00:40:19.243 --> 00:40:20.843
"Seek the Grave in Ash
00:40:20.843 --> 00:40:23.203
and the mark it would grant one like you."
00:40:23.327 --> 00:40:26.047
"One like you" implies that vessels in
general
00:40:26.047 --> 00:40:27.607
are able to receive the mark,
00:40:27.753 --> 00:40:29.043
and that makes sense.
00:40:29.143 --> 00:40:31.223
Midwife also calls the King's Brand
00:40:31.223 --> 00:40:33.253
a "bright mark of relationship,"
00:40:33.253 --> 00:40:35.453
which I interpret as saying that the
mark's bearer
00:40:35.453 --> 00:40:37.313
is a relation to the Pale King.
00:40:37.453 --> 00:40:38.493
On top of that,
00:40:38.493 --> 00:40:40.773
the vessels are the children of the
Pale King
00:40:40.773 --> 00:40:42.263
so, since he's dead,
00:40:42.263 --> 00:40:44.943
any one of them should
be able to become the next king.
00:40:45.236 --> 00:40:49.766
Also MatPat keeps referring to the Knight
and the Hollow Knight using male pronouns
00:40:49.766 --> 00:40:52.186
but in game they are never given genders.
00:40:52.186 --> 00:40:54.616
In fact, Hornet is
called "the gendered child"
00:40:54.616 --> 00:40:58.276
just to signify how the rest of the Pale
King's children lack genders.
00:40:58.516 --> 00:41:01.876
I assume MatPat is just using male
pronouns for convenience,
00:41:02.280 --> 00:41:05.540
but that's no excuse to misgender these
poor bugs.
00:41:05.540 --> 00:41:06.910
They have it hard enough.
00:41:06.910 --> 00:41:08.150
[MATPAT] It would explain how,
00:41:08.150 --> 00:41:11.620
just like the Pale King snapped the bugs
out of their collective stupor
00:41:11.620 --> 00:41:12.660
during his lifetime,
00:41:12.660 --> 00:41:14.590
our Knight, as you go through the game,
00:41:14.590 --> 00:41:16.850
is doing exactly the same thing;
00:41:16.850 --> 00:41:18.570
waking up bugs from the infection
00:41:18.570 --> 00:41:21.384
and getting them to return to a life in
Dirtmouth.
00:41:21.384 --> 00:41:22.504
[MOSSBAG] To be fair,
00:41:22.504 --> 00:41:25.306
the Knight only saves two bugs from
the infection:
00:41:25.306 --> 00:41:26.636
Sly and Bretta,
00:41:26.636 --> 00:41:28.916
and these two are very rare exceptions.
00:41:29.036 --> 00:41:32.586
The Knight isn't able to cure any of the
other infected bugs we see.
00:41:32.736 --> 00:41:35.476
You'd think that would be easier than
fighting them off.
00:41:35.831 --> 00:41:37.611
And of course we can't forget
00:41:37.611 --> 00:41:41.511
if the Knight really can snap bugs out
of the infection so easily,
00:41:41.511 --> 00:41:43.461
why can't we save Myla?
00:41:43.694 --> 00:41:46.164
Did we really fail her that much?
00:41:46.354 --> 00:41:48.014
She really deserved better.
00:41:48.014 --> 00:41:50.184
[♪ 'For The Damaged Coda' ♪]
00:41:50.184 --> 00:41:50.434
(POV: You discover that
mossbag can read your mind--)
00:41:50.434 --> 00:41:51.139
On top of that,
00:41:51.139 --> 00:41:54.107
the Pale King couldn't snap bugs out of
the infection either.
00:41:54.107 --> 00:41:56.007
That was the whole point of the Vessel,
00:41:56.007 --> 00:41:59.072
it was the only way the Pale King could
deal with the infection.
00:41:59.072 --> 00:42:01.656
[MATPAT] It would explain how
only you and the Pale King
00:42:01.656 --> 00:42:03.676
are seen to use the Monarch Wings item.
00:42:04.155 --> 00:42:05.655
[MOSSBAG] That's true,
00:42:05.655 --> 00:42:08.975
but the Monarch Wings could
probably be worn by any vessel
00:42:08.975 --> 00:42:12.265
as long as they had a cape for
the Monarch Flies to morph into.
00:42:12.265 --> 00:42:15.765
[MATPAT] And if all of that wasn't
enough to convince you,
00:42:15.765 --> 00:42:19.225
in cut dialogue that
was datamined from the game,
00:42:19.225 --> 00:42:21.655
if you dream nail the final boss,
00:42:21.655 --> 00:42:22.935
the Hollow Knight himself,
00:42:22.935 --> 00:42:24.145
it will say this:
00:42:24.145 --> 00:42:24.895
"…Father?…"
00:42:24.895 --> 00:42:26.765
Doesn't get much more explicit than that.
00:42:26.765 --> 00:42:28.205
[MOSSBAG] Okay, so first of all,
00:42:28.205 --> 00:42:32.235
this is cut dialogue so it really
should be taken with a grain of salt.
00:42:32.361 --> 00:42:34.531
Now I am guilty of doing this a lot myself
00:42:34.531 --> 00:42:37.061
and it's a bad habit
that I do need to break.
00:42:37.497 --> 00:42:38.117
Second,
00:42:38.117 --> 00:42:41.107
just because the Hollow Knight is thinking
about its father,
00:42:41.107 --> 00:42:44.091
that doesn't mean it
thinks that the Knight is its father.
00:42:44.489 --> 00:42:49.075
Love for its father would probably be the
only thought the Hollow Knight could have,
00:42:49.075 --> 00:42:52.985
so it would probably think
that even if the Knight wasn't there.
00:42:53.206 --> 00:42:55.321
Look at the jellyfish in the Fog Canyon,
00:42:55.321 --> 00:42:57.571
or the flukes in the Royal Waterways.
00:42:57.720 --> 00:43:00.770
They think about
Monomon and the Flukemarm respectively,
00:43:00.770 --> 00:43:03.070
without being in the same room as them.
00:43:03.331 --> 00:43:06.143
The rest of the video
is just recapping the theory,
00:43:06.143 --> 00:43:10.083
with one additional section discussing why
the Pale King left Hallownest.
00:43:10.083 --> 00:43:10.914
[MATPAT] He studies the Void
00:43:10.914 --> 00:43:14.203
so that he's eventually
able to be reborn with its power,
00:43:14.203 --> 00:43:15.823
hatching down in the Abyss,
00:43:15.823 --> 00:43:18.423
getting cared for in
the safety of the White Palace,
00:43:18.423 --> 00:43:21.223
and then being released
out into the lands beyond Dirtmouth,
00:43:21.223 --> 00:43:24.413
a place where canonically bugs lose all
of their memories.
00:43:24.511 --> 00:43:28.251
This self-exile for a period of years is
probably for two reasons;
00:43:28.251 --> 00:43:30.361
One, his own protection from the Radiance;
00:43:30.361 --> 00:43:33.921
and two, losing his memory
helps make him purely hollow.
00:43:33.921 --> 00:43:34.641
No memory,
00:43:34.641 --> 00:43:35.351
no desire,
00:43:35.351 --> 00:43:36.611
no past life.
00:43:36.611 --> 00:43:38.141
He's now an empty vessel
00:43:38.141 --> 00:43:39.791
so that should it come down to it
00:43:39.791 --> 00:43:42.971
he can now be the one
to take on the Hollow Knight's place.
00:43:43.184 --> 00:43:45.204
[MOSSBAG] I don't really have any
problems with this section
00:43:45.204 --> 00:43:46.954
that I haven't brought up already,
00:43:46.954 --> 00:43:48.634
other than that it begs the question of
00:43:48.634 --> 00:43:51.364
how exactly the
Void Heart fits into all this.
00:43:51.530 --> 00:43:55.170
Hornet mentions multiple times that the
Knight needs to pursue the deeper truth,
00:43:55.170 --> 00:43:57.710
and learn of the
tragedy of its own conception.
00:43:57.850 --> 00:44:00.870
She then commends the Knight
on accepting the Void inside itself.
00:44:01.390 --> 00:44:03.035
There's nothing about coming to terms with
00:44:03.035 --> 00:44:05.295
being the next
reincarnation of the Pale King.
00:44:05.733 --> 00:44:07.503
Why is such an important part of the story
00:44:07.503 --> 00:44:09.872
completely glossed over
for a different theme
00:44:09.872 --> 00:44:13.082
about the Knight coming to
terms with the Void inside itself?
00:44:13.190 --> 00:44:15.650
And that's really my biggest problem with
this theory:
00:44:15.650 --> 00:44:18.880
it just doesn't congeal with
the lore you see in the game.
00:44:18.983 --> 00:44:19.803
Sure,
00:44:19.803 --> 00:44:22.553
you could argue that the
Elderbug refers to the Knight as a ghost
00:44:22.553 --> 00:44:25.673
because the Knight is literally
the Pale King returning to Hallownest
00:44:25.673 --> 00:44:27.423
after years of self-exile.
00:44:27.510 --> 00:44:29.470
You could argue
that the Pale King was planning
00:44:29.470 --> 00:44:32.850
to turn himself into a Void Creature in
an attempt to deny time and live forever.
00:44:33.126 --> 00:44:36.296
And you could probably even find
a way to interpret the birthplace cutscene
00:44:36.296 --> 00:44:38.626
so that it doesn't
debunk the entire theory.
00:44:38.626 --> 00:44:38.876
(lol)
00:44:38.958 --> 00:44:42.002
But do all of these things really feel
like what the game is saying?
00:44:42.002 --> 00:44:46.039
Or do they feel like someone is looking
too hard to justify their own theory
00:44:46.039 --> 00:44:47.369
despite what evidence,
00:44:47.369 --> 00:44:48.799
or lack thereof,
00:44:48.799 --> 00:44:50.269
they find in the game.
00:44:50.715 --> 00:44:52.415
Now I'd like to reiterate:
00:44:52.415 --> 00:44:55.345
my intention with
this video isn't to attack MatPat.
00:44:55.530 --> 00:44:57.810
Remember that pinned
comment I mentioned earlier?
00:44:57.926 --> 00:44:59.936
Well, since I first wrote this script,
00:44:59.936 --> 00:45:02.606
MatPat has replaced
that comment with another one
00:45:02.606 --> 00:45:05.076
providing a detailed
critique of his arguments
00:45:05.076 --> 00:45:07.026
originally written by Sumwan.
00:45:07.170 --> 00:45:08.880
If you don't know who Sumwan is,
00:45:08.880 --> 00:45:10.610
she's done a lot for this community
00:45:10.610 --> 00:45:14.892
helping update the Wiki to include
detailed and sourced lore sections,
00:45:14.892 --> 00:45:16.884
and she's also helped me with my videos
00:45:16.884 --> 00:45:18.534
by proofreading my scripts,
00:45:18.534 --> 00:45:21.114
so she definitely has a
strong understanding of the lore.
00:45:21.174 --> 00:45:21.424
(Sumwan has big chad energy, ngl.)
00:45:21.543 --> 00:45:24.763
Seeing MatPat display her detailed
rebuttal in a pinned comment
00:45:24.763 --> 00:45:25.933
is really cool,
00:45:25.933 --> 00:45:29.303
and it shows that MatPat is
open to criticism about his theories.
00:45:30.117 --> 00:45:33.427
So yeah, those are just a few of
the thoughts I had on MatPat's video.
00:45:33.838 --> 00:45:35.178
If you're a fan of MatPat,
00:45:35.178 --> 00:45:37.938
and didn't really know the lore of
Hollow Knight going into this video,
00:45:37.938 --> 00:45:41.588
then hopefully you can see why
our community got a little upset.
00:45:41.588 --> 00:45:43.958
This theory really is beyond saving.
00:45:44.439 --> 00:45:46.339
Even the Pope couldn't resurrect it.
00:45:46.379 --> 00:45:46.719
...
00:45:46.759 --> 00:45:48.204
That's what the Pope does,
00:45:48.294 --> 00:45:48.894
right?
00:45:49.296 --> 00:45:50.286
If you're a fan of me,
00:45:50.286 --> 00:45:51.715
or just Hollow Knight in general,
00:45:51.715 --> 00:45:54.745
then hopefully you can see that MatPat
isn't trying to disrespect this game
00:45:54.745 --> 00:45:56.505
or mislead people.
00:45:56.505 --> 00:45:58.684
He's been very receptive to the criticism
00:45:58.684 --> 00:46:01.974
and you can tell this video
clearly has a lot of love put into it.
00:46:02.270 --> 00:46:03.490
I mean, fuck,
00:46:03.490 --> 00:46:06.270
I wish my videos
looked half as good as this.
00:46:06.270 --> 00:46:09.700
I just now figured out how to use overlays
in Sony Vegas.
00:46:09.919 --> 00:46:10.619
Look at this:
00:46:12.819 --> 00:46:14.079
… Pretty cool, huh?
00:46:14.275 --> 00:46:15.655
If you're not a fan of me,
00:46:15.675 --> 00:46:16.635
or Hollow Knight,
00:46:16.655 --> 00:46:17.584
or MatPat…
00:46:17.749 --> 00:46:19.169
Then what the fuck are you doing here?
00:46:19.169 --> 00:46:21.323
Why'd you just watch
this whole fucking video???
00:46:21.640 --> 00:46:24.020
All in all, no harm no foul,
00:46:24.231 --> 00:46:25.971
and I'm sure that the animation
00:46:25.971 --> 00:46:28.821
showing that Hornet
was made of Void was just an accident.
00:46:29.492 --> 00:46:31.872
Otherwise I take everything back.
00:46:32.483 --> 00:46:33.793
So in conclusion,
00:46:33.793 --> 00:46:36.923
I guess this is a really
roundabout way of saying this,
00:46:37.081 --> 00:46:39.190
but I suppose the whole point I'm trying
to make here
00:46:39.190 --> 00:46:41.410
is that VaatiVidya and
Indeimaus are a couple of
00:46:41.410 --> 00:46:41.683
bitch
00:46:41.683 --> 00:46:41.983
ass
00:46:41.983 --> 00:46:42.432
mother
00:46:42.432 --> 00:46:43.000
FUCKERS--