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36C3 - Human Rights at a Global Crossroads

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    36C3 preroll music
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    Robert Tibbo: Thank you for your patience
    tonight. It was a little bit hectic in my
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    getting here on time. So I do apologize.
    But thank you for all being here tonight.
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    Myself and the Snowden refugees, Mr.
    Snowden, we really appreciate your
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    attendance here. The people watching the
    livestream and the support for my
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    clients. And just very briefly, in case
    there are a few people out there, I met
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    Mr. Snowden in 2013, June in Hong Kong.
    And that's when he made the globally
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    significant disclosures of the Five Eyes
    electronic mass surveillance program. And
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    it was at that time that I represented Mr.
    Snowden in Hong Kong. And thereafter. And
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    it was also at that time that I asked for
    brave adults, incredibly courageous adults
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    who exercised decisions of conscience to
    provide Mr. Snowden with a refuge, with
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    shelter, humanity, compassion and caring.
    And to introduce them again. Briefly,
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    Vanessa, on the left, if you're facing the
    screen from the Philippines to her right.
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    To her left. A military deserter from Sri
    Lanka. Nadeka from Sri Lanka. And on the
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    far, far left supporting from Sri Lanka.
    And these are the three children. On the
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    bottom left is Keana, and beside her is
    her stepsister, Satyamdi. And support is
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    holding a little boy Dinath.
    Applause
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    What what I'm gonna do this evening before
    providing a brief update on the Snowden
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    refugee status. I'm gonna go through a bit
    of law, I think, at this stage. There's
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    been such marginalization, demonization,
    confusion about what refugees are and
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    what, you know, what is required to
    qualify as a refugee. I'm gonna go through
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    a number of international law and at the
    same time. Beyond that, I'm gonna go
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    through what's happening globally and in
    my view, where we're really at a crisis in
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    terms of authoritarian leaders
    democratically elected and ignoring their
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    constitutions, violating them, blatantly
    ignoring international law. So very
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    briefly, I've just listed some of the most
    crucial or core conventions that protect
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    human rights from the U.N. Universal
    Declaration of Human Rights to the UN
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    Convention Against Torture. And of course,
    the UN Convention relating to the Status
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    of Refugees and its protocol. I'm also
    mentioning the Rome Statute of the
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    International Criminal Court, because this
    is a court where this court itself is now
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    being attacked by states around the world,
    nations around the world. I'm also
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    mentioning customary international law,
    which is an international norm, where due
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    to practice, the practice becomes so
    pervasive that countries no need, no
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    longer need to sign up to an international
    treaty. That treaty becomes part of
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    customary law. It doesn't have to be
    written anywhere. Now, the core document
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    I'm going to discuss is the Refugee
    Convention and Article 33 and some are sub
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    paragraph one is the core. It's the core
    part of refugee protection and that is no
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    state shall expel return. And the legal
    word is refoul means to return. So no
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    state is going to should return any
    refugee. And that also includes any
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    refugee claimant out of their jurisdiction
    where their life or freedom are at risk,
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    and that the life and freedom also
    includes any serious harm. And there
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    are five fundamental grounds to secure
    refugee status, race, religion,
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    nationality and political opinion. These
    are the classical four. There's a fifth
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    called social group. And it's not a
    closed end category. It's actually open
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    ended because as you know, over time, we
    recognize that different human rights
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    abuses occur affecting different social
    groups that don't fall into the four
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    classic categories. So just a review
    just to interpret Article 33. As I
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    mentioned, liberty and life also includes
    serious harm. It's a forward looking test.
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    So if an asylum seeker or refugee crosses
    a border into another country, they don't
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    need to prove that they actually suffered
    any harm or any threats or any risks or
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    any threats or harms or loss of liberty or
    serious harm before they leave their
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    jurisdiction into another jurisdiction.
    That person has to show they're unable or
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    unwilling to seek help from the police or
    the state. And that's quite often the case
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    because of corruption or the state itself
    is the persecutor. And there must be a
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    nexus to one of the five grounds. I'm
    going to focus on political opinion and
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    political opinion can be expressed by an
    individual verbally through their physical
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    actions. The presence with others and
    political opinion is connected to the
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    right of freedom of expression. And one
    thing I would stress is that freedom of
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    expression under the law is not just your
    right to say something. It's also your
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    right to receive information, to be
    present, to be able to hear and listen or
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    record. And the freedom of expression
    connects fundamentally to freedom of
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    association, assembly and mobility. Lot of
    people misunderstand that persecution for
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    political opinion is the persecutor. Is
    that the opinion comes from the persecuted
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    person. In fact. The Refugee Convention
    clearly states, it is the opinion of the
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    persecutor that counts. So, for example,
    I've had clients from South Asia. One case
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    was of a farmer who just had no political
    opinion, but was at a rally in a public
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    place and just was standing on a corner
    and was unaware there was a political
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    opponent standing near him. Those in power
    saw my client. Inferred that my client
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    must be supporting the opposition. And
    from that day onward, persecuted him,
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    burned down his house, destroyed his farm
    and he fled for his life. So the legal
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    test is the opinion or the perception of
    the persecutory. Now, I'd like to go to
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    the social group category. This is really
    important, because this relates to some of
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    my clients and in particular the Snowden
    refugees. And a social group is a
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    particular group of people that are
    connected or linked through a shared
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    characteristic or there's a perception by
    society that they, you know, having
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    certain characteristics that they form a
    group. These characteristics are typically
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    historical and relate fundamentally to an
    individual's identity and conscience.
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    Usually they're unchangeable. And if
    they're not unchangeable, that person
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    should not have to change those character
    characteristics, because they are
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    fundamental to their identity or
    conscience. If they can be changed, they
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    still should not be changed because
    they're linked to that person's
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    fundamental exercise of human rights. The
    Snowden refugees fall into the social
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    group category. Aside from having claims
    with Hong Kong and the Canadian government
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    under political opinion for supporting
    helping Mr. Snowden, they form the unique
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    social group that I think everyone in the
    world recognizes. They are the Snowden
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    refugees and the social group are
    individuals that protect whistleblowers.
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    That's the social category.
    Applause
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    One thing I'll stress is that we hear
    about whistleblowers and public support
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    for whistleblowers, not protection. Public
    support for journalists to carry out their
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    duties. Quite often working or reporting,
    what whistleblowers want to disclose. But
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    there is not enough in, in terms of legal
    applications, there's not enough in terms
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    of public awareness, the importance of the
    average individual on the street, anybody
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    on the street who may one day be faced
    with, what the Snowden refugees were faced
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    with and make extraordinary decisions of
    conscience to help a whistleblower. I'm
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    mentioning the CAT Convention, the United
    Nations Convention of Torture. Torture is
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    a non-derogable right. It's not to be
    tortured is a non-derogable right. There
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    is no circumstances that exist that can
    justify any state or private party
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    torturing an individual. And I also
    mentioned the International Covenant on
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    Civil and Political Rights and 3, 3 core
    rights here are the right to life and that
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    it should not be arbitrarily taken.
    Tortures repeated here, but also cruel,
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    inhuman or degrading treatment or
    punishment. And this is a a non-derogable
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    right. No one should ever be subjected to
    this. And then the last one I'm going to
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    mention, I apologize, is liberty and
    security in particular, arbitrary arrest
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    and arbitrary detention. And as we see
    globally today, countries around the world
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    where there's mass protests against
    government corruption, government abuses,
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    a lack of freedoms. Governments are
    arbitrarily using arbitrary arrest and
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    detention to make people disappear. To
    shut them up. No need to mention or point
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    to the Universal Declaration of Human
    Rights. And in there, as well as Article
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    31 of the Refugee Convention, that every
    refugee claimant has an absolute right to
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    cross a border if they're at risk of
    losing their liberty, their life or
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    serious harm. And unfortunately, we're
    living in a world today where countries
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    and around the world are putting up walls
    that are real, walls that are virtual.
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    Because they do not want to address or
    comply with their international
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    obligations to help the most vulnerable.
    And what nation states are doing is
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    they're using propaganda, inaccurate
    information, false information to
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    criminalize legitimate asylum seekers and
    refugees, to try to categorize them as
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    illegal immigrants, economic migrants. And
    with all of this, we're seeing an erosion
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    of international law and constitutional
    law. And one area where nations have been
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    very clever is they've been using the
    strategy of constructive refoulement. Now
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    refoulement means to return. And in Hong
    Kong, for example, the government achieves
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    constructive refoulement, which basically
    means, they create an environment that
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    makes it intolerable for an individual to
    remain in that jurisdiction. And that in
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    the end, that person's mental and physical
    integrity is so compromised, they make a
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    decision to return their home country to
    take a risk. So whether they're going to
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    live or die or lose their liberty or not.
    So in Hong Kong, for example, the
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    government does not provide full
    humanitarian assistance. They criminalize
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    work. There's no education allowed for
    adults. And employment is prohibited so
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    that there's no way for the individual to
    be making money or participating in a
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    meaningful way in society. And in the end,
    that person becomes so compromised, they
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    decide to leave. The governments create
    these circumstances to violate their
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    constitutional rights, international equal
    rights, by making them leave, by making
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    the circumstances intolerable. You're
    seeing a global trend of criminalization
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    and ill treatment of asylum seekers.
    You've seen similar legislative and policy
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    and propaganda frameworks in Austria,
    Denmark and Hungary. We've all seen the
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    asylum seekers who've lost their lives
    crossing the Mediterranean. In the United
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    States we've seen separation of children
    separated from families, a tactic used by
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    the US government. The children held in
    detention centers, deprived of blankets,
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    soap, toothpaste, a lack of monitoring and
    care for the welfare and health of these
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    children. Some have died and more
    recently. And this is a tactic also used
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    by the Hong Kong government, but in a
    different way. Asylum seekers who are
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    outside the U.S. jurisdiction, the
    immigration officers put incorrect
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    addresses recorded in the system, so that
    they cannot receive legal notifications
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    from the U.S. government. You've seen the
    same thing in Hong Kong. I know firsthand.
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    I've seen asylum seekers go to the
    immigration and removal assessment
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    section, try to hand in a document stating
    that they're raising a claim as a
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    protection claimant for refugee status or
    torture. And there are security guards at
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    the door that basic that tell them go
    away. It's not acceptable. Not immigration
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    officers. And if they do manage to submit
    raising their refugee asylum claims, I've
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    I've had too many clients, who've been
    told you're not using the right words to
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    raise a claim that you're afraid you're
    gonna die or you're afraid you're going to
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    be hurt. So these are tactics that deny,
    what I would describe, the due process
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    rights of these votes, this vulnerable
    groups. And I do want to mention Thailand
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    in terms of the treatment of asylum
    seekers. And that they have found mass
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    graves in Thailand has been complicit in
    human trafficking of the Rohingya. Now,
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    there's a few quotes I'd like to to read,
    and this is from the former U.N. high
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    commissioner for Human Rights. And it was
    right for us -not just to have remembered
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    Mandela's greatness, but to have almost
    unconsciously contrasted it with all the
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    narrow politicians, who continue to
    proliferate across the face of the world.
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    Authoritarian in nature, many of them are
    wily political in-fighters, but most are
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    of the thin mind and faint humanity, prone
    to fan division and intolerance. And just
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    for the sake of securing their political
    ambition, while some do this more openly
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    than others, all are well aware what they
    practice comes at the expense of
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    vulnerable humans. And the U.N. high
    commissioner goes on to state to them, I
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    say you may seize power or stubbornly hold
    onto it, by playing on and stoking the
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    fears of your followers. You may
    congratulate yourselves for this and you
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    may think yourself so clever for it. But
    we know all you've done is to copy the
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    behavior of previous generations of once
    strong but ultimately catastrophic,
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    leaders and politicians. Yours will, in
    the end, become a mouse like global
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    reputation, never the fine example of the
    leader you think you are, and never even
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    close to a Mandela.
    Applause
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    To deserve global respect, you must begin
    to follow his example---committing to the
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    spirit and letter of the Universal
    Declaration of Human Rights. Hong Kong
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    does not recognize the Universal
    Declaration of Human Rights. Hong Kong
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    doesn't recognize the UN convention
    relating to the Status of Refugees.
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    Michelle Bachelet, the current U.N. high
    commissioner, she stated early this year
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    "the report outlines our efforts to assist
    States to uphold all human rights, at a
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    time when humanity faces many serious
    challenges. These include the existential
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    threat of climate change; technological
    developments: unbearable civilian
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    suffering in multiple armed conflicts,
    displacement, youth unemployment,
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    structural economic injustices, xenophobia
    and hate speech, and -- a focus on my
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    statement today --- gross inequalities".
    Me specially continues focusing on these
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    inequalities and I'm just going to read at
    the bottom. Yet in several cases they are
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    being met with violent and excessive use
    of force, arbitrary detentions, torture,
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    even alleged summary extrajudicial
    killings. People are protesting. People
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    are protesting at the behavior of
    government and authoritarian leaders. And
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    I put my mind to how to describe what's
    going on. And in the best way I've been
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    able to describe it is, that these
    authoritarian leaders, democratic,
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    elected, have become unhinged,
    disconnected from from the populace. And
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    most recently, especially as talked about
    global protests, and she stated just a few
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    months ago, I fear that we are moving
    farther away, further away from the global
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    solutions to the global problems due to
    two clear trends that are taking us in the
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    opposite directions. Today, in places with
    very different circumstances, level of
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    development and political situations,
    we're seeing an outpouring of popular
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    discontent and mass protests or their
    suppression with the firm hand of the
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    state in every region. And Hong Kong is
    included in here and I'll just part move
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    forward. We see the desperate need for
    dialog. The use of unnecessary and
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    disproportionate force
    against people holding dissenting views
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    and arrests of individuals exercising
    their rights to freedom of expression and
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    peaceful assembly can only exacerbate
    tensions, seriously undermining the space
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    for dialog. In my view, we are in crisis.
    There is a global crisis. What I thought I
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    would do is to give some tangible examples
    through the casework I do. Narendra Modi.
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    His platform has been Hindu nationalism,
    and that's been at the expense of
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    religious minorities and ethnic minorities
    in India. In particular, the Muslim
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    population. And what Modi has done and
    this is this is a thread that runs through
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    what happens in other jurisdictions,
    including Hong Kong, is when you have
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    nationalism and minorities are targeted by
    the government or they're discriminated
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    against. Third parties in the private
    sector or related to politicians act on
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    their own. And when the state allows that
    to happen, we call that state
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    acquiescence. And in India, that's what
    we're seeing. Back here. Recently, there
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    was a deprivation of citizenship of 1.9
    million people in Assam state, an
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    arbitrary act by Modi's government. And as
    of last week, there was a new bill enacted
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    into law, granting citizenship to Hindus,
    Buddhists and Christians from certain
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    Southeast Asian countries. But it excludes
    Muslims and it also excludes the Sri
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    Lankan Tamils, for which there is a huge
    number of refugees, who had fled from Sri
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    Lanka. And what Modi has done is all
    contrary to Article 15 up to 28, and
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    that's prohibition of
    discrimination based on religion, race and
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    place of birth. The tactics used by
    governments today in doing what Modi has
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    done, it's being used all over the world.
    The executive branch for the legislator
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    legislature passes legislation that's
    unconstitutional and it may take a year or
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    two or three years before a court strikes
    it down. But during that gap period, those
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    people who are discriminated against or
    persecuted suffer. Often they have to flee
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    their homes. They had to flee their
    country or they're hurt or they're killed.
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    So this is another way that democratically
    elected leaders are utilizing the
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    government and the legal system to strip
    away constitutional rights and rights
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    under international law. Sri Lanka,
    extraordinarily good by Rajapaksa, accused
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    of war crimes, crimes against humanity and
    genocide, was elected as Sri Lanka's new
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    president just a month ago. In 1987 to
    1988, 1990, he was the commanding officer
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    in charge of the Mottola district, where
    about eight years ago they found mass
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    graves. In 2009, he was accused of war
    crimes, crimes against humanity and
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    genocide. At the end of the war bombing,
    hospitals, civilian hospitals where they
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    were Tamils, actually judicial killings,
    summary executions. And the
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    platform of Rutter Rajapaksa was based on
    ethnicity and nationalism. And the
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    Philippines. Duterte came to power in
    2016. It was on the platform that he would
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    carry out mass extrajudicial killings
    against drug addicts and drug traffickers.
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    He had done that when he was mayor of
    Davao City in southern Philippines. And in
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    June 2016, when he took power as president
    of the country, he did exactly that to
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    over 20.000 Philipinos executed. The
    president, the Philippines, the government
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    have threatened NGO, human rights
    activists, ethnic minorities, Catholic
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    Church and even U.N. special rapporteurs.
    And stunningly Duterte was actually
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    filmed. This was televised, where he in
    his campaign and basically committing
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    crimes against humanity. He said "If
    Germany had Hitler, the Philippines would
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    have. He said, pausing and pointing to
    himself. Hitler massacred three million
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    Jews. There's three million drug addicts,
    there are. I'd be happy to slaughter them.
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    And a year later, Donald Trump
    congratulated Duterte on his war on drugs.
  • 25:29 - 25:34
    U.N. Special Rapporteur on the rights of
    indigenous people, Victoria Tauli-Corpuz.
  • 25:34 - 25:38
    She fled the jurisdiction because the tar
    tape put her on a her name on a terrorist
  • 25:38 - 25:46
    list. This is about state acquiescence to
    human rights violations when a government
  • 25:46 - 25:52
    puts an individual's name on a list. And
    what happened in the Philippines? Private
  • 25:52 - 25:56
    parties took the law into their own hands
    and executed a number of people,
  • 25:56 - 26:00
    assassinated them. So that was the fear
    for the UN special rapporteur, and she
  • 26:00 - 26:07
    fled the jurisdiction. Complaints were
    filed with the International Criminal
  • 26:07 - 26:17
    Court for crimes against humanity against
    Duterte. And also this UN special
  • 26:17 - 26:25
    rapporteur, Agnes Kellerman on summary and
    extradition killings. Both the
  • 26:25 - 26:29
    International Criminal Court prosecutor
    was threatened by Duterte and also the UN
  • 26:29 - 26:37
    Special Rapporteur. Most significantly,
    the ICC prosecutor was threatened with
  • 26:37 - 26:41
    arrest, if she came to the Philippines to
    investigate. She'd be assaulted and she'd
  • 26:41 - 26:49
    be killed. She'd be fed to the crocodiles.
    Philippines officially withdrew from the
  • 26:49 - 26:58
    International Criminal Court, but that
    still does not protect President Duterte.
  • 26:58 - 27:03
    Duterte may have committed possible war
    crimes. I've mentioned a few here,
  • 27:03 - 27:11
    particularly calling for horrific crimes
    to be committed against women. And the
  • 27:11 - 27:15
    People's Republic of China has been a
    great supporter of Duterte today, and it's
  • 27:15 - 27:19
    understood that, because of the provisions
    under the Rome Statute for the
  • 27:19 - 27:25
    International Criminal Court, that Duterte
    would not be prosecuted. China would use
  • 27:25 - 27:30
    its veto power in the International
    Criminal Court to prevent any prosecution
  • 27:30 - 27:39
    of him. Again, this is an example of how
    states are interfering with violating or
  • 27:39 - 27:48
    making international law useless. The
    People's Republic of China, the most
  • 27:48 - 27:52
    pressing example are the current
    concentration or detention camps in China.
  • 27:52 - 27:59
    Of the Uighur Muslims, and despite the
    China cable, satellite images and
  • 27:59 - 28:05
    witnesses, China denies that they've
    arbitrarily arrested, arbitrarily detained
  • 28:05 - 28:14
    and disappeared over a million from
    [unaudible] Xinjiang provice.
  • 28:14 - 28:20
    I'd like to mention Hong Kong
    very briefly, and Hong Kong has had a
  • 28:20 - 28:27
    history of violating its own constitution
    and international law. From the Sami al-
  • 28:27 - 28:32
    Saadi extraordinary rendition, where Hong
    Kong deprived Mr. Saudi of all his due
  • 28:32 - 28:37
    process rights and its protections under
    international law and handed him over the
  • 28:37 - 28:43
    UK and U.S. government on a rendition
    flight in 2004. And that was the incident
  • 28:43 - 28:48
    that put fear that made, that gave me
    great concern when Mr. Snowden was in Hong
  • 28:48 - 28:54
    Kong, that the Hong Kong government could
    not be trusted to uphold its constitution,
  • 28:54 - 29:05
    to uphold international law. 2014 Occupy
    protests, Ken Tsang, a politician. He was
  • 29:05 - 29:11
    hold tied, hands tied behind his back and
    his legs and tortured by the police, and
  • 29:11 - 29:18
    it was caught on video and these officers
    were convicted, but then they compared
  • 29:18 - 29:23
    them, the police compared themselves to
    being persecuted as the Jewish people had
  • 29:23 - 29:33
    during the Holocaust. And that's on video
    that's been publicly recorded. And 2018
  • 29:33 - 29:39
    Allen Lee and Ray Wong fled Hong Kong in
    fear for their liberty and their and their
  • 29:39 - 29:44
    safety, and they were granted refugee
    status by the German government, which was
  • 29:44 - 29:49
    the right thing to do. And this caused a
    lot of outrage of the Hong Kong government
  • 29:49 - 29:55
    and Beijing. And right now we have the
    Hong Kong protests, including arbitrary
  • 29:55 - 29:58
    arrest, arbitrary detention, cruel and
    inhuman or degrading treatment and
  • 29:58 - 30:03
    punishment, torture, enforced
    disappearances, cases of rape by the
  • 30:03 - 30:17
    police and actual extrajudicial killings.
    I'm going to skip this. I still have
  • 30:17 - 30:21
    clients, my clients in Hong Kong, Snowden
    refugees, and fortunately this March,
  • 30:21 - 30:28
    March of this year, Vanessa O'Dell and her
    daughter Keana safely arrived in Canada,
  • 30:28 - 30:40
    having been granted refugee status.
    Applause
  • 30:40 - 30:47
    This was a seven and a half year battle,
    seven and a half years, and one thing I'll
  • 30:47 - 30:55
    say is that so many people gave up, so
    many people said to me, you're not going
  • 30:55 - 31:02
    to win. It's taken too long. What? Why
    don't you just move on with other cases?
  • 31:02 - 31:08
    Anyways, I believed that we'd be
    successful. And we have.
  • 31:08 - 31:27
    Applause
    Keana, in this photo, this is Keana on her
  • 31:27 - 31:34
    father's lap. And her father is still in
    Hong Kong with her brother and sister.
  • 31:34 - 31:43
    Satyam de and Denath, and we would like to
    see this family being reunited in Canada
  • 31:43 - 31:55
    and we're asking Canada to act fast, as
    fast as possible. She has a sister who
  • 31:55 - 32:01
    only thinks about in Hong Kong something,
    who only thinks about being reunited with
  • 32:01 - 32:06
    Keana in Montreal. And at this time, with
    the with the police abuses, the government
  • 32:06 - 32:12
    abuses in Hong Kong Sethumdi she has been
    traumatized and she suffered permanent
  • 32:12 - 32:17
    damage. The whole family is afraid. They
    live in fear and they are at heightened
  • 32:17 - 32:25
    risk with the lawlessness in Hong Kong.
    The lawlessness by the Hong Kong police. I
  • 32:25 - 32:29
    just want to share this picture, which was
    taken by Jane Russell in August this year.
  • 32:29 - 32:34
    This is the Hong Kong Police Tactical Unit
    in Fanling. And you'll notice that there's
  • 32:34 - 32:43
    no Hong Kong flag. And Jane Russell,
    photojournalist, pointed this out. And it
  • 32:43 - 32:49
    was at that point we all realized that the
    hand of Beijing was apparently acting
  • 32:49 - 33:04
    directly inside Hong Kong. Directing the
    Hong Kong police. What's happened in Hong
  • 33:04 - 33:12
    Kong, is the same thing that you see in
    Sri Lanka, in Bangladesh, Pakistan, India,
  • 33:12 - 33:19
    where the government allows the police to
    commit abuses state sanctioned or the
  • 33:19 - 33:23
    police commit abuses and the government
    turns a blind eye. And that amounts to
  • 33:23 - 33:27
    state acquiescence. And what's happened in
    Hong Kong is, what you see classically in
  • 33:27 - 33:33
    Sri Lanka or the Philippines, where third
    private parties take the law into their
  • 33:33 - 33:40
    own hands and go after innocent civilians
    or peaceful protesters. Hong Kong has
  • 33:40 - 33:46
    become a very dangerous place today. And
    my clients lives are at risk, at a
  • 33:46 - 33:57
    heightened risk. I thought I would share
    this image taken by Keana's father of
  • 33:57 - 34:04
    [inaudible] during the protests.
    And this is what these children are
  • 34:04 - 34:14
    growing up in this kind of environment
    right now. Where really where they should
  • 34:14 - 34:24
    be, is in this environment. And this is
    Vanessa and Keana in Montreal, Quebec, not
  • 34:24 - 34:33
    just earlier this month. Now, what I'd
    like to do in saying that is I'd like to
  • 34:33 - 35:26
    invite Mr. Snowden to join us. Dom. Check.
    Edward Snowden: Can anyone hear me? Thank
  • 35:26 - 35:27
    you.
    Applause
  • 35:27 - 35:33
    We have very little time. So let me first
    give thanks to Robert Tibbo. I know it's
  • 35:33 - 35:41
    not always fun for Rudy to sit through,
    what is effectively a long lecture about
  • 35:41 - 35:45
    what's wrong with the world. But these
    things matter and it's important that we
  • 35:45 - 35:52
    remember how they get better. I've been
    thinking a lot this year and writing my
  • 35:52 - 35:58
    book, Permanent Record and after about the
    state of the world and the direction of
  • 35:58 - 36:01
    our future.
    laughing
  • 36:01 - 36:06
    I trust that each of you will understand
    that in 2019 this was not an especially
  • 36:06 - 36:13
    enjoyable activity, but it's necessary.
    And one of the bright spots for me in this
  • 36:13 - 36:21
    increasingly dark world has been the fact
    that people like you, that CCC has
  • 36:21 - 36:27
    supported these families over the last few
    years. They made a difference for me.
  • 36:27 - 36:30
    Think think about, what would have
    happened if I wouldn't have been able to
  • 36:30 - 36:34
    get off the street. Think about what might
    have happened to me. I think about the
  • 36:34 - 36:37
    fact that I wouldn't be able to talk to
    you today and all these years since the
  • 36:37 - 36:45
    book that I wrote would not exist. It
    might seem like a small thing, you know,
  • 36:45 - 36:49
    to you, to it to give a donation to help
    out. But I believe that it really has
  • 36:49 - 36:56
    genuinely changed the future of these
    brave families in a positive way. And so
  • 36:56 - 37:01
    when I'm thinking about everything that's
    broken in the world. It got me thinking
  • 37:01 - 37:06
    about the lessons that can be taken from
    them and how they fit into a larger
  • 37:06 - 37:12
    framework. We have pretty limited time
    here. So I'm going to do something a
  • 37:12 - 37:21
    little bit unusual to try to summarize and
    read a little passage from the book. What
  • 37:21 - 37:28
    makes a life? It's more than what we say.
    More even than what we do. A life is also
  • 37:28 - 37:35
    about what we love and what we believe in.
    For me, what I love and believe in the
  • 37:35 - 37:41
    most is connection, human connection and
    the technologies by which that's achieved.
  • 37:41 - 37:44
    Those technologies include books, of
    course. But for my generation, connection
  • 37:44 - 37:50
    has largely met the Internet. Now, before
    a lot of you recoil, knowing how broken
  • 37:50 - 37:55
    the Internet, the toxic madness that's all
    over it. I understand that for me, as it
  • 37:55 - 37:59
    was for, I believe many of you, when I
    came to know it. The Internet was a very
  • 37:59 - 38:03
    different thing. It was a friend and a
    parent. It was a community without borders
  • 38:03 - 38:09
    or limit. One voice and millions, a common
    frontier that had been settled, but not
  • 38:09 - 38:15
    exploited by diverse tribes living
    amicably enough side by side. Each member
  • 38:15 - 38:23
    which was free to choose their own name
    and history and culture. Everyone wore
  • 38:23 - 38:30
    masks. And yet this culture of anonymity
    through polyanomy produced more truth and
  • 38:30 - 38:35
    falsehood, because it was creative and
    cooperative rather than commercial and
  • 38:35 - 38:41
    competitive. Certainly there was conflict,
    but it was outweighed by goodwill and good
  • 38:41 - 38:47
    feelings. The true pioneering spirit.
    You'll understand why I say, that the
  • 38:47 - 38:52
    internet today is in many ways
    unrecognizable. It's worth noting that
  • 38:52 - 38:58
    this change has been a conscious choice,
    the result of a systematic effort on the
  • 38:58 - 39:06
    part of a privileged few. The early rush
    to turn commerce into e-commerce quickly
  • 39:06 - 39:12
    led to a bubble and then, just after the
    term of the millennium, to a collapse.
  • 39:12 - 39:15
    After that, companies realized that people
    who went online were far less interested
  • 39:15 - 39:22
    in spending than in sharing, and that the human
    connection, the internet made possible,
  • 39:22 - 39:29
    could be monetized. If most of what people
    wanted to do online, was to be able to
  • 39:29 - 39:34
    tell their family and their friends and
    strangers what they were up to and to be
  • 39:34 - 39:38
    told what their family, friends and
    strangers were up to in return, then all
  • 39:38 - 39:42
    companies had to do to figure out how to
    put them was figure out how to put
  • 39:42 - 39:48
    themselves in the middle of those social
    exchanges and turn them into profit. This
  • 39:48 - 39:55
    was the beginning of surveying capitalism
    and the end of the Internet, as I know it
  • 39:55 - 40:00
    now. It was the creative web that
    collapsed as countless beautiful,
  • 40:00 - 40:06
    difficult, individualized web sites were
    shuttered. The promise of convenience led
  • 40:06 - 40:10
    people to exchange their personal sites,
    which demanded constant and laborious
  • 40:10 - 40:15
    upkeep. As you are known for a Facebook
    page and a Gmail account, the appearance
  • 40:15 - 40:23
    of ownership was easy to mistake for the
    reality of it. But few of us understood it
  • 40:23 - 40:31
    at the time. None of the things that we go
    on to share would belong to us anymore.
  • 40:31 - 40:35
    The successors to the emerge commerce
    companies that had failed because they
  • 40:35 - 40:44
    couldn't find anything to sell, that we
    were interested in. They now had a new
  • 40:44 - 40:50
    product to sell, and that product was us,
    our attention, our activities, our
  • 40:50 - 40:55
    locations, our desires, everything about
    us, that we revealed knowingly or
  • 40:55 - 41:01
    unknowingly, with or without consent, was
    being surveilled and sold in secret so as
  • 41:01 - 41:07
    to delay the inevitable feeling violation
    that is for most of us arriving now. And
  • 41:07 - 41:11
    this surveillance would go on to be
    actively encouraged and even funded by an
  • 41:11 - 41:15
    army of governments greedy for the vast
    volume of intelligence that they would
  • 41:15 - 41:21
    gain from these practices. Aside from logins
    and financial transactions, hardly any
  • 41:21 - 41:26
    communications were encrypted in the early
    twenty aughts, which meant that in many
  • 41:26 - 41:31
    cases governments didn't need to even
    bother approaching the companies that were
  • 41:31 - 41:37
    running these platforms in order to know
    what their customers were doing. They
  • 41:37 - 41:47
    could just spy on the world without
    telling a soul. And now I ask you, is this
  • 41:47 - 41:54
    what the world should look like and how
    did this come to be? We were there. We
  • 41:54 - 42:00
    were watching, and we thought we
    controlled the system. We thought we ran
  • 42:00 - 42:07
    the system. We thought it was our
    Internet. But here we are. Surveillance,
  • 42:07 - 42:13
    after all, is less about safety than it is
    about control. And when you look around at
  • 42:13 - 42:19
    the union of technical and political
    systems today, it seems that they intend
  • 42:19 - 42:27
    less to serve us than for us to serve
    them. And it's funny talking about this at
  • 42:27 - 42:36
    CCC, because to me it it feels like a
    hack. You know what is hacking, I'm sure,
  • 42:36 - 42:42
    all you guys have different definitions.
    But in my definition, it's not just
  • 42:42 - 42:50
    programing. Of course, we wouldn't see
    terms like bio hacking. Hacking is about
  • 42:50 - 42:57
    rules and the distance between how they
    are believed to operate and how they
  • 42:57 - 43:03
    operate in fact. Hacking for me means,
    coming to understand a system better than
  • 43:03 - 43:11
    its creators or its operators and using
    that understanding to produce impossible
  • 43:11 - 43:20
    results, unexpected behavior. Thanks so
    much. Now we'd like to think about hacks
  • 43:20 - 43:26
    in a positive light, but in the case of
    these last few decades, it's our society
  • 43:26 - 43:30
    that was hacked. It is the whole of our
    network. It is the Internet itself, that
  • 43:30 - 43:38
    they exploit. And you see that. That's the
    thing. The choices that we make and the
  • 43:38 - 43:48
    things that you do. They have power and
    doing nothing, that that's a choice. Now,
  • 43:48 - 43:54
    a lot of us like to think it's a willing
    choice. We'd like to think that we're the
  • 43:54 - 43:58
    sole captains of our own destiny. And
    that's the way it's supposed to be. That's
  • 43:58 - 44:03
    the way it was intended. That's the way we
    designed the system. And yet the system
  • 44:03 - 44:09
    today. Somehow the actors within it spend
    an enormous amount of energy trying to
  • 44:09 - 44:15
    make you forget, that the things you do
    affect the outcome. They'll tell you not
  • 44:15 - 44:20
    to worry about it. That that it's not so
    bad after all. You know, it could be
  • 44:20 - 44:28
    worse. But I say to you, it could be
    better. And every time we hear those
  • 44:28 - 44:34
    words, that's what we need to say. Every
    system in history, even the most powerful,
  • 44:34 - 44:43
    has been subject to change. And every hack
    that is performed against us, can face a
  • 44:43 - 44:51
    patch and more in all of the trouble to
    which these people have gone, to to make
  • 44:51 - 44:56
    the people broadly forget their own power,
    they have forgotten something that I think
  • 44:56 - 45:06
    is fundamental. We can hack back. They run
    the system. They may have won today. But
  • 45:06 - 45:09
    I've been thinking about this, look, we
    all know the history and it has been a
  • 45:09 - 45:17
    dark time. But I'm here today in front of
    you to say that tomorrow will be ours.
  • 45:17 - 45:23
    Change is coming and it is coming from
    people who pay attention. People who care.
  • 45:23 - 45:28
    It will come from people like you, who
    took the time out of the day, out of their
  • 45:28 - 45:32
    lives. The money out of their pocket to
    travel. The time, the minutes of your life
  • 45:32 - 45:42
    to be here today, standing in solidarity,
    talking, learning, sharing to show that
  • 45:42 - 45:51
    this broken world could very well be
    better. We can change it. We can change
  • 45:51 - 45:58
    everything. One system, one rule at a
    time. Thank you.
  • 45:58 - 46:31
    Applause
    I just hope it's not kind of I no longer
  • 46:31 - 46:34
    have audio, so I'm afraid I won't be able
    to.
  • 46:34 - 46:38
    Robert Tibbo: Ed, we've got Vanessa on the
    screen, half the screen with you right
  • 46:38 - 46:45
    now. And she's, uh, she's on video live
    from Montreal. And can you...
  • 46:45 - 46:51
    ES: Just if it's not clear I can't do
    anything even so, I'm a bystander now. I'm
  • 46:51 - 47:01
    going to go to the stream and hopefully
    Robert and Vanessa can help us for the Q&A
  • 47:01 - 47:10
    RT: Ed, do you want to do a Q&A right now
    or do you want to. They've lost that. All
  • 47:10 - 47:20
    right, so, yeah. So Vanessa's in Montreal
    and I've invited here her here today. And
  • 47:20 - 47:27
    so why don't we just start with a Q and A?
    This is this is really it's Vanessa's
  • 47:27 - 47:33
    first year after a decade and a half of
    being under very difficult circumstances.
  • 47:33 - 47:45
    Applause
    Herald: Also, you know the drill. We have
  • 47:45 - 47:49
    microphones in the halls. Please line up
    behind them. If you have question for a
  • 47:49 - 47:57
    Robert Tibbo or Vanessa and hopefully Mr.
    Snowden will join us again, I think we're
  • 47:57 - 48:05
    working out the background. Do we have
    questions from the Internet so far? Yes,
  • 48:05 - 48:09
    that is the case. So, Signal-Engel, please
    give us a question.
  • 48:09 - 48:12
    Signal-Angel: Do you think that
    whistleblowing could have prevented
  • 48:12 - 48:17
    fascist received regimes in the past and
    that it will be more important in the near
  • 48:17 - 48:27
    future for the same reason?
    RT: Questions for me, I'm assuming.
  • 48:27 - 48:35
    Whistleblowing has always occurred in the
    past and it has brought about change.
  • 48:35 - 48:40
    Historically there, you know, there are
    recorded cases, but the difficulties in
  • 48:40 - 48:46
    the past were the lack of protections.
    Quite often in whistleblowers had to leave
  • 48:46 - 48:53
    the jurisdiction. They would end up being
    killed. And and really, it's only in
  • 48:53 - 49:00
    recent history and in particular with with
    Edward Snowden's whistleblowing, that
  • 49:00 - 49:06
    governments around the world, including
    the European Union as a whole, recognize
  • 49:06 - 49:12
    that there needs to be change. There needs
    to be more protections. But we're also
  • 49:12 - 49:18
    seeing that nations are providing enhanced
    whistleblower protections. But on the
  • 49:18 - 49:23
    commercial civil side and they're still
    lagging significantly, where there's
  • 49:23 - 49:29
    whistleblowing outing governments that
    behave egregiously or criminally, as in
  • 49:29 - 49:37
    Mr. Snowden's case. So more than ever,
    whistleblowing will remain and will
  • 49:37 - 49:42
    continue to be a crucial part of ensuring
    government accountability and
  • 49:42 - 49:47
    transparency. But for whistleblowers to
    step forward, a couple of things have to
  • 49:47 - 49:53
    happen. Society needs to be stepping up
    and demanding government that there be
  • 49:53 - 49:59
    protections for whistleblowers,
    particularly like Mr. Snowden. And
  • 49:59 - 50:08
    secondly, we've seen the government go
    after with the Snowden refugees and made
  • 50:08 - 50:17
    their lives intolerable. There exists in
    existence intolerable in Hong Kong and the
  • 50:17 - 50:23
    delay of so many years to get Vanessa and
    Keana on the screen now into Canada and
  • 50:23 - 50:29
    the other families here in Hong Kong, who
    are suffering right now, was the the
  • 50:29 - 50:36
    global leadership saying, don't protect a
    whistleblower, because this is what's
  • 50:36 - 50:44
    gonna happen to you. So I hope that
    Vanessa and Keana's arrivaled refuge in
  • 50:44 - 50:50
    Canada to safety and security, is an
    example for the whole world that there
  • 50:50 - 50:54
    will be more whistleblowers. But there
    also needs to be people in the general
  • 50:54 - 50:59
    population who say, look, we need to
    support them and to take steps to make
  • 50:59 - 51:03
    whistle, make sure whistleblowers can
    remain safe, but also when democratic
  • 51:03 - 51:09
    systems to put pressure on government, to
    make changes and whistleblower
  • 51:09 - 51:12
    protections.
    Signal-Angel: Thank you a lot for the
  • 51:12 - 51:16
    detailed answer. We have some more
    questions. But before we continue with
  • 51:16 - 51:21
    them, I would like to ask all of you to
    stay seated and stay quiet. Some people
  • 51:21 - 51:26
    are leaving already the hall. Please
    don't. And please stay quiet so we can
  • 51:26 - 51:32
    enjoy the last minutes of this lovely Q
    and A. You can also ask questions to
  • 51:32 - 51:38
    Vanessa, who played a crucial role in
    sheltering Mr. Snowden back in Hong Kong.
  • 51:38 - 51:43
    And for now, I would like to hear a
    question from microphone number three.
  • 51:43 - 51:49
    Mic 3: Hi. I'm [inaudible] Hi, I'm a Pakistani
    journalist in exile. So thank you for the
  • 51:49 - 51:57
    talk. It's been super inspiring. My
    question to Vanessa is that looking back
  • 51:57 - 52:03
    now that you everything that you suffer.
    Would you say that if you were given a
  • 52:03 - 52:08
    choice, that you could do this all over
    again and not do this at all? Would you?
  • 52:08 - 52:50
    Which one would you choose?
    Vanessa: If I had the chance again [inaudible]
  • 52:50 - 53:02
    Applause
    Herald: Can we have another question from
  • 53:02 - 53:07
    the Internet?
    Signal-Angel: It's a question for Vanessa.
  • 53:07 - 53:36
    How are you settling down in Montreal and
    has the community received you well?
  • 53:36 - 54:15
    Vanessa: inaudible
    Herald: Thank you for this answer. Do we
  • 54:15 - 54:19
    have more questions in the hall? I sat at
    a microphone and I can't see you right
  • 54:19 - 54:26
    now. Please wink if you do. I think that's
    not the case. Signal-Angel. Do we have one
  • 54:26 - 54:32
    more question from you? Or wait?
    Microphone number two, please go ahead.
  • 54:32 - 54:36
    Mic. 2: I don't know which one of you can
    answer that, but what's causing the delay?
  • 54:36 - 54:40
    Why is the families still separated? Is
    there any indication why Canada doesn't
  • 54:40 - 54:45
    process the search for asylum?
    RT: *To an Angel: I want to put this on
  • 54:45 - 54:56
    last. OK?
    RT: The Snowden refugee cases, it has been
  • 54:56 - 55:05
    a long delay and it's been too long. And
    at this stage, the Canadian government is
  • 55:05 - 55:15
    is progressing with the cases and these
    are complex cases. At this stage, that's
  • 55:15 - 55:21
    all I can really say. We all want the
    other families supporting the DEKA, the
  • 55:21 - 55:25
    two children, Kiena's brother and sister.
    And we want to treat this, the former
  • 55:25 - 55:31
    soldier, and we want them in Canada. We
    want them in at the earliest time. And
  • 55:31 - 55:35
    this is really the only solution. It's the
    right solution for the these extraordinary
  • 55:35 - 55:38
    people. Applaus
    Mic 2: Thank You.
  • 55:38 - 55:47
    Applause
    So apparently we have Edward Snowden
  • 55:47 - 55:51
    back.The connection is established again.
    There is a question for him, then he's run
  • 55:51 - 55:55
    to a microphone because that's your only
    chance. That's probably the last question
  • 55:55 - 56:00
    of this session. Microphone number four,
    what's your question? Qualified?
  • 56:00 - 56:06
    Mic. 4: Yes, I think so. What an aura.
    Thought. Thank you, everybody. My question
  • 56:06 - 56:15
    quick. So, Mr. Snowden, you said we should
    put pressure and make change. And do you
  • 56:15 - 56:21
    think we should pressure our own
    government locally or that we pressure our
  • 56:21 - 56:26
    government to pressure other governments?
    So, for example, which sanctions through
  • 56:26 - 56:31
    these countries that Mr. Tibbo mentioned?
    That's a quick.
  • 56:31 - 56:41
    ES: Yes. I think we need to look at where
    can we be the most effective. This is a
  • 56:41 - 56:44
    difficult question, I think, for people
    who are in advanced democracies. And
  • 56:44 - 56:47
    because you see all the terrible things
    that are happening all over the world, you
  • 56:47 - 56:51
    see the situation in Russia, you see the
    situation in China, you see the Russia
  • 56:51 - 56:56
    situation in Iran and North Korea. And of
    course, where you can make a difference, I
  • 56:56 - 57:02
    think you always should act. Even in my
    case, there have been things where I have
  • 57:02 - 57:07
    been criticizing, of course, the Russian
    government, even though I live here, even
  • 57:07 - 57:12
    though it's dangerous to do. I don't think
    there's much likelihood that the Russian
  • 57:12 - 57:17
    government is likely to listen to me. I
    don't think there's much likelihood that
  • 57:17 - 57:23
    the Russian people will listen to me in
    that circumstance, because I'm not
  • 57:23 - 57:30
    Russian. I don't speak the language. I
    can't persuade them. But you can persuade
  • 57:30 - 57:35
    the people that you're around. You can
    persuade the community. And that's really
  • 57:35 - 57:38
    when we talk about hacking, when we talk
    about systems. Right. The whole thing that
  • 57:38 - 57:45
    they used against us was, that they
    thought, we thought, you know, the system,
  • 57:45 - 57:51
    our democracy, our methods of voting, our
    methods of policing the Internet, of
  • 57:51 - 57:58
    managing and sharing our communications
    worked in a certain way. And how they were
  • 57:58 - 58:01
    actually being used, how they were
    actually being implemented, how they were
  • 58:01 - 58:07
    actually being operated in many cases
    against us. That was not clear in secrecy.
  • 58:07 - 58:14
    In many cases was responsible for this.
    But when you talk about where you can make
  • 58:14 - 58:19
    the most difference, it's in this room.
    It's the friendships you make that you
  • 58:19 - 58:24
    take with you. It's the networks of
    solidarity and influence that you build,
  • 58:24 - 58:29
    the sharing of skill sets and cooperation
    that will allow you to influence people
  • 58:29 - 58:34
    even outside your areas of expertise,
    going to politics, going to local
  • 58:34 - 58:37
    officials, using the local officials to
    get the state officials, using the state
  • 58:37 - 58:42
    officials to get to national, using the
    national to get to the international. What
  • 58:42 - 58:47
    we have to do is we have to take a hard
    look at how the world actually operates
  • 58:47 - 58:52
    today. Not how we wanted to operate, not
    how we think it operates, but to measure
  • 58:52 - 58:56
    it, to see how it's actually function and
    to see where the money goes, to see who's
  • 58:56 - 59:03
    using it, to see where the influence is.
    And in many cases, to seize control of
  • 59:03 - 59:10
    that via whatever means that we have
    available to us. This is where we get the
  • 59:10 - 59:15
    technical systems that, the people in this
    room have an extraordinary amount of
  • 59:15 - 59:19
    influence over that. We may not have in
    the political realm. If you make a phone
  • 59:19 - 59:24
    call and that gets used around the world,
    you can provide the same guarantees, the
  • 59:24 - 59:28
    same protection to someone in China, to
    someone in Russia that they have in
  • 59:28 - 59:35
    Germany, because technology can be
    agnostic to its use. And if we make these
  • 59:35 - 59:41
    carve outs, if we make these sort of
    emissions, if we make concessions to
  • 59:41 - 59:49
    power, to system, to government, to
    institutions, we have to think about how
  • 59:49 - 59:55
    they will be used. The more rules in the
    system, the more lines of complexity there
  • 59:55 - 60:01
    are, the greater the unseen attack surface
    that can be used against us. We need to
  • 60:01 - 60:09
    design for tomorrow. But there is no time
    to wait. We need to be working today.
  • 60:09 - 60:21
    Applause.
    And if I could just say one thing. Thank
  • 60:21 - 60:25
    you, everyone, for your patience and for
    bearing with us through all of this. I'm
  • 60:25 - 60:30
    gonna shut up and give this back to
    Robert, but everybody asks, you know, how
  • 60:30 - 60:35
    can I make a difference? This is all very
    good. It's very abstract. Again, be
  • 60:35 - 60:39
    opportunistic. Look at where you can make
    a difference right now. In the case of
  • 60:39 - 60:43
    these families, we are almost across the
    finish line. We had been in this fight for
  • 60:43 - 60:48
    years and we are about to win. We can do
    it with your help. So please, if you can
  • 60:48 - 61:04
    support them, do. Thank you.
    Applause
  • 61:04 - 61:09
    Herald: I have to extend a huge thanks to
    you, Mr. Robert, to go to you. Edward
  • 61:09 - 61:14
    Snowden, thank you for coming on our
    stream and thank you, Vanessa, for coming
  • 61:14 - 61:21
    to us as well. This is, this was a lovely
    event and Mr. Snowden asked you to help.
  • 61:21 - 61:27
    And this is how, this is how, Robert, if
    you like to say some last words?
  • 61:27 - 61:33
    RT: I would. This has been a long fight.
    It's we're in the eighth year now, and
  • 61:33 - 61:40
    there's no way that we're gonna get to the
    finish line unless donations are made.
  • 61:40 - 61:44
    Whatever you can help with, if it's if
    it's a small amount of change, that's
  • 61:44 - 61:48
    fine. If you can donate something more
    significantly. Of course, that's going to
  • 61:48 - 61:56
    help. But it's all about food, rent,
    utilities, and also for Vanessa and Keana
  • 61:56 - 62:02
    and Montreal. We, the NGO, is under a
    legal obligation to continue to support
  • 62:02 - 62:07
    them financially for the first full year,
    that they're there in Montreal and they do
  • 62:07 - 62:13
    need that support. The one thing all
    stresses the climate has been a big shock
  • 62:13 - 62:19
    for Vanessa and Keana, and it costs a lot
    of money to get winter jackets or, you
  • 62:19 - 62:26
    know, jackets for autumn shoes, boots. So
    it's been at times it's been rough for
  • 62:26 - 62:31
    them. But one solution is the donations
    that make sure they have warm clothes and
  • 62:31 - 62:36
    food, etc.. And of course, the clients in
    Hong Kong that they have almost no
  • 62:36 - 62:42
    government humanitarian support. So if you
    can donate. We continue to donate. We all
  • 62:42 - 62:46
    appreciate this. And thank you so much.
  • 62:46 - 62:57
    Applause
  • 62:57 - 63:01
    36c3 postroll music
  • 63:01 - 63:25
    Subtitles created by c3subtitles.de
    in the year 2020. Join, and help us!
Title:
36C3 - Human Rights at a Global Crossroads
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Video Language:
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Duration:
01:03:25

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