[Script Info]
Title: 
[Events]
Format: Layer, Start, End, Style, Name, MarginL, MarginR, MarginV, Effect, Text
Dialogue: 0,0:00:00.00,0:00:19.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,{\i1}36C3 preroll music{\i0}
Dialogue: 0,0:00:19.33,0:00:23.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Robert Tibbo: Thank you for your patience\Ntonight. It was a little bit hectic in my
Dialogue: 0,0:00:23.02,0:00:30.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,getting here on time. So I do apologize.\NBut thank you for all being here tonight.
Dialogue: 0,0:00:30.38,0:00:36.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Myself and the Snowden refugees, Mr.\NSnowden, we really appreciate your
Dialogue: 0,0:00:36.95,0:00:42.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,attendance here. The people watching the\Nlivestream and the support for my
Dialogue: 0,0:00:42.06,0:00:54.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,clients. And just very briefly, in case\Nthere are a few people out there, I met
Dialogue: 0,0:00:54.59,0:01:00.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Mr. Snowden in 2013, June in Hong Kong.\NAnd that's when he made the globally
Dialogue: 0,0:01:00.61,0:01:06.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,significant disclosures of the Five Eyes\Nelectronic mass surveillance program. And
Dialogue: 0,0:01:06.27,0:01:12.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it was at that time that I represented Mr.\NSnowden in Hong Kong. And thereafter. And
Dialogue: 0,0:01:12.64,0:01:21.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it was also at that time that I asked for\Nbrave adults, incredibly courageous adults
Dialogue: 0,0:01:21.32,0:01:27.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,who exercised decisions of conscience to\Nprovide Mr. Snowden with a refuge, with
Dialogue: 0,0:01:27.40,0:01:34.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,shelter, humanity, compassion and caring.\NAnd to introduce them again. Briefly,
Dialogue: 0,0:01:34.99,0:01:41.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Vanessa, on the left, if you're facing the\Nscreen from the Philippines to her right.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:41.97,0:01:51.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,To her left. A military deserter from Sri\NLanka. Nadeka from Sri Lanka. And on the
Dialogue: 0,0:01:51.73,0:01:58.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,far, far left supporting from Sri Lanka.\NAnd these are the three children. On the
Dialogue: 0,0:01:58.31,0:02:09.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,bottom left is Keana, and beside her is\Nher stepsister, Satyamdi. And support is
Dialogue: 0,0:02:09.17,0:02:23.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,holding a little boy Dinath.\N{\i1}Applause{\i0}
Dialogue: 0,0:02:23.17,0:02:28.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,What what I'm gonna do this evening before\Nproviding a brief update on the Snowden
Dialogue: 0,0:02:28.10,0:02:35.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,refugee status. I'm gonna go through a bit\Nof law, I think, at this stage. There's
Dialogue: 0,0:02:35.85,0:02:41.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,been such marginalization, demonization,\Nconfusion about what refugees are and
Dialogue: 0,0:02:41.06,0:02:46.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,what, you know, what is required to\Nqualify as a refugee. I'm gonna go through
Dialogue: 0,0:02:46.98,0:02:52.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a number of international law and at the\Nsame time. Beyond that, I'm gonna go
Dialogue: 0,0:02:52.89,0:02:57.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,through what's happening globally and in\Nmy view, where we're really at a crisis in
Dialogue: 0,0:02:57.17,0:03:05.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,terms of authoritarian leaders\Ndemocratically elected and ignoring their
Dialogue: 0,0:03:05.34,0:03:11.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,constitutions, violating them, blatantly\Nignoring international law. So very
Dialogue: 0,0:03:11.81,0:03:16.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,briefly, I've just listed some of the most\Ncrucial or core conventions that protect
Dialogue: 0,0:03:16.45,0:03:21.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,human rights from the U.N. Universal\NDeclaration of Human Rights to the UN
Dialogue: 0,0:03:21.45,0:03:27.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Convention Against Torture. And of course,\Nthe UN Convention relating to the Status
Dialogue: 0,0:03:27.06,0:03:31.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of Refugees and its protocol. I'm also\Nmentioning the Rome Statute of the
Dialogue: 0,0:03:31.89,0:03:36.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,International Criminal Court, because this\Nis a court where this court itself is now
Dialogue: 0,0:03:36.75,0:03:41.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,being attacked by states around the world,\Nnations around the world. I'm also
Dialogue: 0,0:03:41.55,0:03:48.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,mentioning customary international law,\Nwhich is an international norm, where due
Dialogue: 0,0:03:48.07,0:03:55.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to practice, the practice becomes so\Npervasive that countries no need, no
Dialogue: 0,0:03:55.38,0:04:01.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,longer need to sign up to an international\Ntreaty. That treaty becomes part of
Dialogue: 0,0:04:01.23,0:04:08.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,customary law. It doesn't have to be\Nwritten anywhere. Now, the core document
Dialogue: 0,0:04:08.30,0:04:15.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I'm going to discuss is the Refugee\NConvention and Article 33 and some are sub
Dialogue: 0,0:04:15.66,0:04:21.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,paragraph one is the core. It's the core\Npart of refugee protection and that is no
Dialogue: 0,0:04:21.82,0:04:32.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,state shall expel return. And the legal\Nword is refoul means to return. So no
Dialogue: 0,0:04:32.16,0:04:36.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,state is going to should return any\Nrefugee. And that also includes any
Dialogue: 0,0:04:36.45,0:04:42.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,refugee claimant out of their jurisdiction\Nwhere their life or freedom are at risk,
Dialogue: 0,0:04:42.54,0:04:49.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and that the life and freedom also\Nincludes any serious harm. And there
Dialogue: 0,0:04:49.52,0:04:56.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,are five fundamental grounds to secure\Nrefugee status, race, religion,
Dialogue: 0,0:04:56.84,0:05:02.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,nationality and political opinion. These\Nare the classical four. There's a fifth
Dialogue: 0,0:05:02.48,0:05:07.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,called social group. And it's not a\Nclosed end category. It's actually open
Dialogue: 0,0:05:07.00,0:05:13.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,ended because as you know, over time, we\Nrecognize that different human rights
Dialogue: 0,0:05:13.47,0:05:18.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,abuses occur affecting different social\Ngroups that don't fall into the four
Dialogue: 0,0:05:18.32,0:05:27.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,classic categories. So just a review\Njust to interpret Article 33. As I
Dialogue: 0,0:05:27.63,0:05:33.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,mentioned, liberty and life also includes\Nserious harm. It's a forward looking test.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:33.40,0:05:37.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So if an asylum seeker or refugee crosses\Na border into another country, they don't
Dialogue: 0,0:05:37.60,0:05:47.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,need to prove that they actually suffered\Nany harm or any threats or any risks or
Dialogue: 0,0:05:47.19,0:05:50.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,any threats or harms or loss of liberty or\Nserious harm before they leave their
Dialogue: 0,0:05:50.98,0:05:56.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,jurisdiction into another jurisdiction.\NThat person has to show they're unable or
Dialogue: 0,0:05:56.88,0:06:01.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,unwilling to seek help from the police or\Nthe state. And that's quite often the case
Dialogue: 0,0:06:01.30,0:06:06.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because of corruption or the state itself\Nis the persecutor. And there must be a
Dialogue: 0,0:06:06.51,0:06:18.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,nexus to one of the five grounds. I'm\Ngoing to focus on political opinion and
Dialogue: 0,0:06:18.24,0:06:23.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,political opinion can be expressed by an\Nindividual verbally through their physical
Dialogue: 0,0:06:23.16,0:06:31.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,actions. The presence with others and\Npolitical opinion is connected to the
Dialogue: 0,0:06:31.09,0:06:34.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,right of freedom of expression. And one\Nthing I would stress is that freedom of
Dialogue: 0,0:06:34.50,0:06:39.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,expression under the law is not just your\Nright to say something. It's also your
Dialogue: 0,0:06:39.27,0:06:43.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,right to receive information, to be\Npresent, to be able to hear and listen or
Dialogue: 0,0:06:43.10,0:06:48.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,record. And the freedom of expression\Nconnects fundamentally to freedom of
Dialogue: 0,0:06:48.95,0:07:02.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,association, assembly and mobility. Lot of\Npeople misunderstand that persecution for
Dialogue: 0,0:07:02.43,0:07:09.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,political opinion is the persecutor. Is\Nthat the opinion comes from the persecuted
Dialogue: 0,0:07:09.02,0:07:17.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,person. In fact. The Refugee Convention\Nclearly states, it is the opinion of the
Dialogue: 0,0:07:17.78,0:07:25.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,persecutor that counts. So, for example,\NI've had clients from South Asia. One case
Dialogue: 0,0:07:25.43,0:07:30.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,was of a farmer who just had no political\Nopinion, but was at a rally in a public
Dialogue: 0,0:07:30.58,0:07:34.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,place and just was standing on a corner\Nand was unaware there was a political
Dialogue: 0,0:07:34.86,0:07:42.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,opponent standing near him. Those in power\Nsaw my client. Inferred that my client
Dialogue: 0,0:07:42.62,0:07:47.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,must be supporting the opposition. And\Nfrom that day onward, persecuted him,
Dialogue: 0,0:07:47.83,0:07:52.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,burned down his house, destroyed his farm\Nand he fled for his life. So the legal
Dialogue: 0,0:07:52.88,0:08:05.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,test is the opinion or the perception of\Nthe persecutory. Now, I'd like to go to
Dialogue: 0,0:08:05.20,0:08:09.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the social group category. This is really\Nimportant, because this relates to some of
Dialogue: 0,0:08:09.48,0:08:14.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,my clients and in particular the Snowden\Nrefugees. And a social group is a
Dialogue: 0,0:08:14.59,0:08:19.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,particular group of people that are\Nconnected or linked through a shared
Dialogue: 0,0:08:19.33,0:08:26.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,characteristic or there's a perception by\Nsociety that they, you know, having
Dialogue: 0,0:08:26.06,0:08:33.01,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,certain characteristics that they form a\Ngroup. These characteristics are typically
Dialogue: 0,0:08:33.01,0:08:39.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,historical and relate fundamentally to an\Nindividual's identity and conscience.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:39.06,0:08:44.15,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Usually they're unchangeable. And if\Nthey're not unchangeable, that person
Dialogue: 0,0:08:44.15,0:08:49.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,should not have to change those character\Ncharacteristics, because they are
Dialogue: 0,0:08:49.20,0:08:54.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,fundamental to their identity or\Nconscience. If they can be changed, they
Dialogue: 0,0:08:54.70,0:08:58.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,still should not be changed because\Nthey're linked to that person's
Dialogue: 0,0:08:58.10,0:09:03.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,fundamental exercise of human rights. The\NSnowden refugees fall into the social
Dialogue: 0,0:09:03.40,0:09:09.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,group category. Aside from having claims\Nwith Hong Kong and the Canadian government
Dialogue: 0,0:09:09.41,0:09:14.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,under political opinion for supporting\Nhelping Mr. Snowden, they form the unique
Dialogue: 0,0:09:14.72,0:09:19.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,social group that I think everyone in the\Nworld recognizes. They are the Snowden
Dialogue: 0,0:09:19.08,0:09:25.01,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,refugees and the social group are\Nindividuals that protect whistleblowers.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:25.01,0:09:35.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That's the social category.\N{\i1}Applause{\i0}
Dialogue: 0,0:09:35.52,0:09:42.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,One thing I'll stress is that we hear\Nabout whistleblowers and public support
Dialogue: 0,0:09:42.24,0:09:47.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for whistleblowers, not protection. Public\Nsupport for journalists to carry out their
Dialogue: 0,0:09:47.53,0:09:55.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,duties. Quite often working or reporting,\Nwhat whistleblowers want to disclose. But
Dialogue: 0,0:09:55.12,0:10:00.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,there is not enough in, in terms of legal\Napplications, there's not enough in terms
Dialogue: 0,0:10:00.26,0:10:07.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of public awareness, the importance of the\Naverage individual on the street, anybody
Dialogue: 0,0:10:07.37,0:10:11.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,on the street who may one day be faced\Nwith, what the Snowden refugees were faced
Dialogue: 0,0:10:11.50,0:10:18.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,with and make extraordinary decisions of\Nconscience to help a whistleblower. I'm
Dialogue: 0,0:10:18.37,0:10:24.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,mentioning the CAT Convention, the United\NNations Convention of Torture. Torture is
Dialogue: 0,0:10:24.44,0:10:29.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a non-derogable right. It's not to be\Ntortured is a non-derogable right. There
Dialogue: 0,0:10:29.42,0:10:35.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is no circumstances that exist that can\Njustify any state or private party
Dialogue: 0,0:10:35.80,0:10:42.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,torturing an individual. And I also\Nmentioned the International Covenant on
Dialogue: 0,0:10:42.66,0:10:51.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Civil and Political Rights and 3, 3 core\Nrights here are the right to life and that
Dialogue: 0,0:10:51.11,0:10:59.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it should not be arbitrarily taken.\NTortures repeated here, but also cruel,
Dialogue: 0,0:10:59.27,0:11:02.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,inhuman or degrading treatment or\Npunishment. And this is a a non-derogable
Dialogue: 0,0:11:02.96,0:11:08.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,right. No one should ever be subjected to\Nthis. And then the last one I'm going to
Dialogue: 0,0:11:08.50,0:11:13.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,mention, I apologize, is liberty and\Nsecurity in particular, arbitrary arrest
Dialogue: 0,0:11:13.86,0:11:18.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and arbitrary detention. And as we see\Nglobally today, countries around the world
Dialogue: 0,0:11:18.75,0:11:23.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,where there's mass protests against\Ngovernment corruption, government abuses,
Dialogue: 0,0:11:23.32,0:11:27.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a lack of freedoms. Governments are\Narbitrarily using arbitrary arrest and
Dialogue: 0,0:11:27.45,0:11:37.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,detention to make people disappear. To\Nshut them up. No need to mention or point
Dialogue: 0,0:11:37.65,0:11:44.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to the Universal Declaration of Human\NRights. And in there, as well as Article
Dialogue: 0,0:11:44.28,0:11:50.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,31 of the Refugee Convention, that every\Nrefugee claimant has an absolute right to
Dialogue: 0,0:11:50.74,0:11:57.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,cross a border if they're at risk of\Nlosing their liberty, their life or
Dialogue: 0,0:11:57.60,0:12:03.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,serious harm. And unfortunately, we're\Nliving in a world today where countries
Dialogue: 0,0:12:03.53,0:12:12.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and around the world are putting up walls\Nthat are real, walls that are virtual.
Dialogue: 0,0:12:12.14,0:12:16.15,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Because they do not want to address or\Ncomply with their international
Dialogue: 0,0:12:16.15,0:12:21.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,obligations to help the most vulnerable.\NAnd what nation states are doing is
Dialogue: 0,0:12:21.81,0:12:28.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,they're using propaganda, inaccurate\Ninformation, false information to
Dialogue: 0,0:12:28.10,0:12:33.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,criminalize legitimate asylum seekers and\Nrefugees, to try to categorize them as
Dialogue: 0,0:12:33.43,0:12:43.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,illegal immigrants, economic migrants. And\Nwith all of this, we're seeing an erosion
Dialogue: 0,0:12:43.88,0:12:49.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of international law and constitutional\Nlaw. And one area where nations have been
Dialogue: 0,0:12:49.32,0:12:56.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,very clever is they've been using the\Nstrategy of constructive refoulement. Now
Dialogue: 0,0:12:56.30,0:13:04.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,refoulement means to return. And in Hong\NKong, for example, the government achieves
Dialogue: 0,0:13:04.61,0:13:08.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,constructive refoulement, which basically\Nmeans, they create an environment that
Dialogue: 0,0:13:08.29,0:13:12.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,makes it intolerable for an individual to\Nremain in that jurisdiction. And that in
Dialogue: 0,0:13:12.88,0:13:16.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the end, that person's mental and physical\Nintegrity is so compromised, they make a
Dialogue: 0,0:13:16.88,0:13:20.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,decision to return their home country to\Ntake a risk. So whether they're going to
Dialogue: 0,0:13:20.83,0:13:25.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,live or die or lose their liberty or not.\NSo in Hong Kong, for example, the
Dialogue: 0,0:13:25.67,0:13:30.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,government does not provide full\Nhumanitarian assistance. They criminalize
Dialogue: 0,0:13:30.48,0:13:40.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,work. There's no education allowed for\Nadults. And employment is prohibited so
Dialogue: 0,0:13:40.05,0:13:45.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that there's no way for the individual to\Nbe making money or participating in a
Dialogue: 0,0:13:45.25,0:13:50.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,meaningful way in society. And in the end,\Nthat person becomes so compromised, they
Dialogue: 0,0:13:50.23,0:13:55.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,decide to leave. The governments create\Nthese circumstances to violate their
Dialogue: 0,0:13:55.13,0:14:01.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,constitutional rights, international equal\Nrights, by making them leave, by making
Dialogue: 0,0:14:01.18,0:14:06.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the circumstances intolerable. You're\Nseeing a global trend of criminalization
Dialogue: 0,0:14:06.44,0:14:12.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and ill treatment of asylum seekers.\NYou've seen similar legislative and policy
Dialogue: 0,0:14:12.96,0:14:20.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and propaganda frameworks in Austria,\NDenmark and Hungary. We've all seen the
Dialogue: 0,0:14:20.57,0:14:25.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,asylum seekers who've lost their lives\Ncrossing the Mediterranean. In the United
Dialogue: 0,0:14:25.47,0:14:31.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,States we've seen separation of children\Nseparated from families, a tactic used by
Dialogue: 0,0:14:31.47,0:14:37.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the US government. The children held in\Ndetention centers, deprived of blankets,
Dialogue: 0,0:14:37.25,0:14:44.01,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,soap, toothpaste, a lack of monitoring and\Ncare for the welfare and health of these
Dialogue: 0,0:14:44.01,0:14:48.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,children. Some have died and more\Nrecently. And this is a tactic also used
Dialogue: 0,0:14:48.87,0:14:54.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,by the Hong Kong government, but in a\Ndifferent way. Asylum seekers who are
Dialogue: 0,0:14:54.32,0:14:58.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,outside the U.S. jurisdiction, the\Nimmigration officers put incorrect
Dialogue: 0,0:14:58.68,0:15:04.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,addresses recorded in the system, so that\Nthey cannot receive legal notifications
Dialogue: 0,0:15:04.56,0:15:10.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,from the U.S. government. You've seen the\Nsame thing in Hong Kong. I know firsthand.
Dialogue: 0,0:15:10.43,0:15:14.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I've seen asylum seekers go to the\Nimmigration and removal assessment
Dialogue: 0,0:15:14.35,0:15:19.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,section, try to hand in a document stating\Nthat they're raising a claim as a
Dialogue: 0,0:15:19.75,0:15:24.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,protection claimant for refugee status or\Ntorture. And there are security guards at
Dialogue: 0,0:15:24.82,0:15:29.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the door that basic that tell them go\Naway. It's not acceptable. Not immigration
Dialogue: 0,0:15:29.98,0:15:37.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,officers. And if they do manage to submit\Nraising their refugee asylum claims, I've
Dialogue: 0,0:15:37.88,0:15:41.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I've had too many clients, who've been\Ntold you're not using the right words to
Dialogue: 0,0:15:41.31,0:15:44.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,raise a claim that you're afraid you're\Ngonna die or you're afraid you're going to
Dialogue: 0,0:15:44.73,0:15:50.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,be hurt. So these are tactics that deny,\Nwhat I would describe, the due process
Dialogue: 0,0:15:50.30,0:16:03.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,rights of these votes, this vulnerable\Ngroups. And I do want to mention Thailand
Dialogue: 0,0:16:03.17,0:16:06.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in terms of the treatment of asylum\Nseekers. And that they have found mass
Dialogue: 0,0:16:06.98,0:16:14.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,graves in Thailand has been complicit in\Nhuman trafficking of the Rohingya. Now,
Dialogue: 0,0:16:14.46,0:16:21.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,there's a few quotes I'd like to to read,\Nand this is from the former U.N. high
Dialogue: 0,0:16:21.38,0:16:27.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,commissioner for Human Rights. And it was\Nright for us -not just to have remembered
Dialogue: 0,0:16:27.89,0:16:31.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Mandela's greatness, but to have almost\Nunconsciously contrasted it with all the
Dialogue: 0,0:16:31.89,0:16:36.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,narrow politicians, who continue to\Nproliferate across the face of the world.
Dialogue: 0,0:16:36.26,0:16:41.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Authoritarian in nature, many of them are\Nwily political in-fighters, but most are
Dialogue: 0,0:16:41.36,0:16:47.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of the thin mind and faint humanity, prone\Nto fan division and intolerance. And just
Dialogue: 0,0:16:47.13,0:16:51.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for the sake of securing their political\Nambition, while some do this more openly
Dialogue: 0,0:16:51.52,0:16:56.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,than others, all are well aware what they\Npractice comes at the expense of
Dialogue: 0,0:16:56.07,0:17:04.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,vulnerable humans. And the U.N. high\Ncommissioner goes on to state to them, I
Dialogue: 0,0:17:04.65,0:17:08.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,say you may seize power or stubbornly hold\Nonto it, by playing on and stoking the
Dialogue: 0,0:17:08.66,0:17:12.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,fears of your followers. You may\Ncongratulate yourselves for this and you
Dialogue: 0,0:17:12.41,0:17:16.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,may think yourself so clever for it. But\Nwe know all you've done is to copy the
Dialogue: 0,0:17:16.80,0:17:21.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,behavior of previous generations of once\Nstrong but ultimately catastrophic,
Dialogue: 0,0:17:21.09,0:17:25.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,leaders and politicians. Yours will, in\Nthe end, become a mouse like global
Dialogue: 0,0:17:25.53,0:17:29.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,reputation, never the fine example of the\Nleader you think you are, and never even
Dialogue: 0,0:17:29.64,0:17:42.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,close to a Mandela.\N{\i1}Applause{\i0}
Dialogue: 0,0:17:42.17,0:17:45.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,To deserve global respect, you must begin\Nto follow his example---committing to the
Dialogue: 0,0:17:45.88,0:17:51.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,spirit and letter of the Universal\NDeclaration of Human Rights. Hong Kong
Dialogue: 0,0:17:51.03,0:17:54.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,does not recognize the Universal\NDeclaration of Human Rights. Hong Kong
Dialogue: 0,0:17:54.63,0:18:04.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,doesn't recognize the UN convention\Nrelating to the Status of Refugees.
Dialogue: 0,0:18:04.34,0:18:09.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Michelle Bachelet, the current U.N. high\Ncommissioner, she stated early this year
Dialogue: 0,0:18:09.88,0:18:13.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,"the report outlines our efforts to assist\NStates to uphold all human rights, at a
Dialogue: 0,0:18:13.30,0:18:18.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,time when humanity faces many serious\Nchallenges. These include the existential
Dialogue: 0,0:18:18.97,0:18:25.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,threat of climate change; technological\Ndevelopments: unbearable civilian
Dialogue: 0,0:18:25.30,0:18:28.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,suffering in multiple armed conflicts,\Ndisplacement, youth unemployment,
Dialogue: 0,0:18:28.46,0:18:33.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,structural economic injustices, xenophobia\Nand hate speech, and -- a focus on my
Dialogue: 0,0:18:33.07,0:18:43.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,statement today --- gross inequalities".\NMe specially continues focusing on these
Dialogue: 0,0:18:43.94,0:18:52.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,inequalities and I'm just going to read at\Nthe bottom. Yet in several cases they are
Dialogue: 0,0:18:52.64,0:18:56.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,being met with violent and excessive use\Nof force, arbitrary detentions, torture,
Dialogue: 0,0:18:56.26,0:19:01.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,even alleged summary extrajudicial\Nkillings. People are protesting. People
Dialogue: 0,0:19:01.39,0:19:07.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,are protesting at the behavior of\Ngovernment and authoritarian leaders. And
Dialogue: 0,0:19:07.12,0:19:12.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I put my mind to how to describe what's\Ngoing on. And in the best way I've been
Dialogue: 0,0:19:12.12,0:19:17.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,able to describe it is, that these\Nauthoritarian leaders, democratic,
Dialogue: 0,0:19:17.11,0:19:29.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,elected, have become unhinged,\Ndisconnected from from the populace. And
Dialogue: 0,0:19:29.98,0:19:39.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,most recently, especially as talked about\Nglobal protests, and she stated just a few
Dialogue: 0,0:19:39.43,0:19:43.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,months ago, I fear that we are moving\Nfarther away, further away from the global
Dialogue: 0,0:19:43.08,0:19:46.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,solutions to the global problems due to\Ntwo clear trends that are taking us in the
Dialogue: 0,0:19:46.99,0:19:50.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,opposite directions. Today, in places with\Nvery different circumstances, level of
Dialogue: 0,0:19:50.99,0:19:54.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,development and political situations,\Nwe're seeing an outpouring of popular
Dialogue: 0,0:19:54.45,0:19:59.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,discontent and mass protests or their\Nsuppression with the firm hand of the
Dialogue: 0,0:19:59.68,0:20:07.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,state in every region. And Hong Kong is\Nincluded in here and I'll just part move
Dialogue: 0,0:20:07.53,0:20:13.15,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,forward. We see the desperate need for\Ndialog. The use of unnecessary and
Dialogue: 0,0:20:13.15,0:20:16.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,disproportionate force\Nagainst people holding dissenting views
Dialogue: 0,0:20:16.47,0:20:19.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and arrests of individuals exercising\Ntheir rights to freedom of expression and
Dialogue: 0,0:20:19.53,0:20:25.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,peaceful assembly can only exacerbate\Ntensions, seriously undermining the space
Dialogue: 0,0:20:25.12,0:20:37.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for dialog. In my view, we are in crisis.\NThere is a global crisis. What I thought I
Dialogue: 0,0:20:37.57,0:20:45.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,would do is to give some tangible examples\Nthrough the casework I do. Narendra Modi.
Dialogue: 0,0:20:45.40,0:20:49.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,His platform has been Hindu nationalism,\Nand that's been at the expense of
Dialogue: 0,0:20:49.63,0:20:55.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,religious minorities and ethnic minorities\Nin India. In particular, the Muslim
Dialogue: 0,0:20:55.06,0:21:02.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,population. And what Modi has done and\Nthis is this is a thread that runs through
Dialogue: 0,0:21:02.93,0:21:06.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,what happens in other jurisdictions,\Nincluding Hong Kong, is when you have
Dialogue: 0,0:21:06.52,0:21:11.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,nationalism and minorities are targeted by\Nthe government or they're discriminated
Dialogue: 0,0:21:11.84,0:21:18.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,against. Third parties in the private\Nsector or related to politicians act on
Dialogue: 0,0:21:18.75,0:21:23.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,their own. And when the state allows that\Nto happen, we call that state
Dialogue: 0,0:21:23.57,0:21:33.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,acquiescence. And in India, that's what\Nwe're seeing. Back here. Recently, there
Dialogue: 0,0:21:33.56,0:21:42.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,was a deprivation of citizenship of 1.9\Nmillion people in Assam state, an
Dialogue: 0,0:21:42.32,0:21:48.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,arbitrary act by Modi's government. And as\Nof last week, there was a new bill enacted
Dialogue: 0,0:21:48.05,0:21:52.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,into law, granting citizenship to Hindus,\NBuddhists and Christians from certain
Dialogue: 0,0:21:52.41,0:21:59.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Southeast Asian countries. But it excludes\NMuslims and it also excludes the Sri
Dialogue: 0,0:21:59.55,0:22:07.15,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Lankan Tamils, for which there is a huge\Nnumber of refugees, who had fled from Sri
Dialogue: 0,0:22:07.15,0:22:16.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Lanka. And what Modi has done is all\Ncontrary to Article 15 up to 28, and
Dialogue: 0,0:22:16.16,0:22:19.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that's prohibition of\Ndiscrimination based on religion, race and
Dialogue: 0,0:22:19.71,0:22:25.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,place of birth. The tactics used by\Ngovernments today in doing what Modi has
Dialogue: 0,0:22:25.27,0:22:33.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,done, it's being used all over the world.\NThe executive branch for the legislator
Dialogue: 0,0:22:33.23,0:22:37.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,legislature passes legislation that's\Nunconstitutional and it may take a year or
Dialogue: 0,0:22:37.82,0:22:44.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,two or three years before a court strikes\Nit down. But during that gap period, those
Dialogue: 0,0:22:44.19,0:22:49.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,people who are discriminated against or\Npersecuted suffer. Often they have to flee
Dialogue: 0,0:22:49.90,0:22:55.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,their homes. They had to flee their\Ncountry or they're hurt or they're killed.
Dialogue: 0,0:22:55.23,0:23:01.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So this is another way that democratically\Nelected leaders are utilizing the
Dialogue: 0,0:23:01.64,0:23:05.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,government and the legal system to strip\Naway constitutional rights and rights
Dialogue: 0,0:23:05.52,0:23:14.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,under international law. Sri Lanka,\Nextraordinarily good by Rajapaksa, accused
Dialogue: 0,0:23:14.14,0:23:18.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of war crimes, crimes against humanity and\Ngenocide, was elected as Sri Lanka's new
Dialogue: 0,0:23:18.08,0:23:26.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,president just a month ago. In 1987 to\N1988, 1990, he was the commanding officer
Dialogue: 0,0:23:26.85,0:23:33.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in charge of the Mottola district, where\Nabout eight years ago they found mass
Dialogue: 0,0:23:33.65,0:23:39.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,graves. In 2009, he was accused of war\Ncrimes, crimes against humanity and
Dialogue: 0,0:23:39.54,0:23:44.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,genocide. At the end of the war bombing,\Nhospitals, civilian hospitals where they
Dialogue: 0,0:23:44.57,0:23:52.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,were Tamils, actually judicial killings,\Nsummary executions. And the
Dialogue: 0,0:23:52.87,0:24:05.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,platform of Rutter Rajapaksa was based on\Nethnicity and nationalism. And the
Dialogue: 0,0:24:05.39,0:24:14.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Philippines. Duterte came to power in\N2016. It was on the platform that he would
Dialogue: 0,0:24:14.46,0:24:19.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,carry out mass extrajudicial killings\Nagainst drug addicts and drug traffickers.
Dialogue: 0,0:24:19.76,0:24:25.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,He had done that when he was mayor of\NDavao City in southern Philippines. And in
Dialogue: 0,0:24:25.58,0:24:31.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,June 2016, when he took power as president\Nof the country, he did exactly that to
Dialogue: 0,0:24:31.19,0:24:37.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,over 20.000 Philipinos executed. The\Npresident, the Philippines, the government
Dialogue: 0,0:24:37.49,0:24:43.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,have threatened NGO, human rights\Nactivists, ethnic minorities, Catholic
Dialogue: 0,0:24:43.76,0:24:50.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Church and even U.N. special rapporteurs.\NAnd stunningly Duterte was actually
Dialogue: 0,0:24:50.72,0:24:58.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,filmed. This was televised, where he in\Nhis campaign and basically committing
Dialogue: 0,0:24:58.45,0:25:02.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,crimes against humanity. He said "If\NGermany had Hitler, the Philippines would
Dialogue: 0,0:25:02.98,0:25:08.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,have. He said, pausing and pointing to\Nhimself. Hitler massacred three million
Dialogue: 0,0:25:08.96,0:25:18.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Jews. There's three million drug addicts,\Nthere are. I'd be happy to slaughter them.
Dialogue: 0,0:25:18.09,0:25:28.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And a year later, Donald Trump\Ncongratulated Duterte on his war on drugs.
Dialogue: 0,0:25:28.72,0:25:34.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,U.N. Special Rapporteur on the rights of\Nindigenous people, Victoria Tauli-Corpuz.
Dialogue: 0,0:25:34.04,0:25:37.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,She fled the jurisdiction because the tar\Ntape put her on a her name on a terrorist
Dialogue: 0,0:25:37.74,0:25:46.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,list. This is about state acquiescence to\Nhuman rights violations when a government
Dialogue: 0,0:25:46.12,0:25:52.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,puts an individual's name on a list. And\Nwhat happened in the Philippines? Private
Dialogue: 0,0:25:52.19,0:25:55.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,parties took the law into their own hands\Nand executed a number of people,
Dialogue: 0,0:25:55.84,0:25:59.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,assassinated them. So that was the fear\Nfor the UN special rapporteur, and she
Dialogue: 0,0:25:59.94,0:26:07.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,fled the jurisdiction. Complaints were\Nfiled with the International Criminal
Dialogue: 0,0:26:07.11,0:26:17.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Court for crimes against humanity against\NDuterte. And also this UN special
Dialogue: 0,0:26:17.49,0:26:25.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,rapporteur, Agnes Kellerman on summary and\Nextradition killings. Both the
Dialogue: 0,0:26:25.38,0:26:29.01,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,International Criminal Court prosecutor\Nwas threatened by Duterte and also the UN
Dialogue: 0,0:26:29.01,0:26:36.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Special Rapporteur. Most significantly,\Nthe ICC prosecutor was threatened with
Dialogue: 0,0:26:36.66,0:26:41.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,arrest, if she came to the Philippines to\Ninvestigate. She'd be assaulted and she'd
Dialogue: 0,0:26:41.28,0:26:48.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,be killed. She'd be fed to the crocodiles.\NPhilippines officially withdrew from the
Dialogue: 0,0:26:48.80,0:26:58.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,International Criminal Court, but that\Nstill does not protect President Duterte.
Dialogue: 0,0:26:58.10,0:27:02.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Duterte may have committed possible war\Ncrimes. I've mentioned a few here,
Dialogue: 0,0:27:02.69,0:27:10.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,particularly calling for horrific crimes\Nto be committed against women. And the
Dialogue: 0,0:27:10.85,0:27:15.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,People's Republic of China has been a\Ngreat supporter of Duterte today, and it's
Dialogue: 0,0:27:15.03,0:27:19.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,understood that, because of the provisions\Nunder the Rome Statute for the
Dialogue: 0,0:27:19.26,0:27:25.15,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,International Criminal Court, that Duterte\Nwould not be prosecuted. China would use
Dialogue: 0,0:27:25.15,0:27:29.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,its veto power in the International\NCriminal Court to prevent any prosecution
Dialogue: 0,0:27:29.58,0:27:38.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of him. Again, this is an example of how\Nstates are interfering with violating or
Dialogue: 0,0:27:38.76,0:27:48.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,making international law useless. The\NPeople's Republic of China, the most
Dialogue: 0,0:27:48.23,0:27:52.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,pressing example are the current\Nconcentration or detention camps in China.
Dialogue: 0,0:27:52.49,0:27:59.01,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Of the Uighur Muslims, and despite the\NChina cable, satellite images and
Dialogue: 0,0:27:59.01,0:28:04.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,witnesses, China denies that they've\Narbitrarily arrested, arbitrarily detained
Dialogue: 0,0:28:04.70,0:28:13.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and disappeared over a million from\N[unaudible] Xinjiang provice.
Dialogue: 0,0:28:13.91,0:28:19.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I'd like to mention Hong Kong\Nvery briefly, and Hong Kong has had a
Dialogue: 0,0:28:19.68,0:28:26.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,history of violating its own constitution\Nand international law. From the Sami al-
Dialogue: 0,0:28:26.96,0:28:32.15,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Saadi extraordinary rendition, where Hong\NKong deprived Mr. Saudi of all his due
Dialogue: 0,0:28:32.15,0:28:36.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,process rights and its protections under\Ninternational law and handed him over the
Dialogue: 0,0:28:36.51,0:28:43.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,UK and U.S. government on a rendition\Nflight in 2004. And that was the incident
Dialogue: 0,0:28:43.13,0:28:48.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that put fear that made, that gave me\Ngreat concern when Mr. Snowden was in Hong
Dialogue: 0,0:28:48.37,0:28:53.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Kong, that the Hong Kong government could\Nnot be trusted to uphold its constitution,
Dialogue: 0,0:28:53.59,0:29:05.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to uphold international law. 2014 Occupy\Nprotests, Ken Tsang, a politician. He was
Dialogue: 0,0:29:05.49,0:29:10.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,hold tied, hands tied behind his back and\Nhis legs and tortured by the police, and
Dialogue: 0,0:29:10.70,0:29:18.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it was caught on video and these officers\Nwere convicted, but then they compared
Dialogue: 0,0:29:18.41,0:29:23.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,them, the police compared themselves to\Nbeing persecuted as the Jewish people had
Dialogue: 0,0:29:23.22,0:29:33.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,during the Holocaust. And that's on video\Nthat's been publicly recorded. And 2018
Dialogue: 0,0:29:33.49,0:29:38.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Allen Lee and Ray Wong fled Hong Kong in\Nfear for their liberty and their and their
Dialogue: 0,0:29:38.65,0:29:43.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,safety, and they were granted refugee\Nstatus by the German government, which was
Dialogue: 0,0:29:43.86,0:29:48.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the right thing to do. And this caused a\Nlot of outrage of the Hong Kong government
Dialogue: 0,0:29:48.76,0:29:54.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and Beijing. And right now we have the\NHong Kong protests, including arbitrary
Dialogue: 0,0:29:54.71,0:29:58.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,arrest, arbitrary detention, cruel and\Ninhuman or degrading treatment and
Dialogue: 0,0:29:58.28,0:30:03.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,punishment, torture, enforced\Ndisappearances, cases of rape by the
Dialogue: 0,0:30:03.28,0:30:16.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,police and actual extrajudicial killings.\NI'm going to skip this. I still have
Dialogue: 0,0:30:16.54,0:30:21.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,clients, my clients in Hong Kong, Snowden\Nrefugees, and fortunately this March,
Dialogue: 0,0:30:21.37,0:30:27.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,March of this year, Vanessa O'Dell and her\Ndaughter Keana safely arrived in Canada,
Dialogue: 0,0:30:27.71,0:30:40.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,having been granted refugee status.\N{\i1}Applause{\i0}
Dialogue: 0,0:30:40.35,0:30:47.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,This was a seven and a half year battle,\Nseven and a half years, and one thing I'll
Dialogue: 0,0:30:47.33,0:30:54.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,say is that so many people gave up, so\Nmany people said to me, you're not going
Dialogue: 0,0:30:54.96,0:31:01.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to win. It's taken too long. What? Why\Ndon't you just move on with other cases?
Dialogue: 0,0:31:01.89,0:31:07.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Anyways, I believed that we'd be\Nsuccessful. And we have.
Dialogue: 0,0:31:07.78,0:31:26.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,{\i1}Applause{\i0}\NKeana, in this photo, this is Keana on her
Dialogue: 0,0:31:26.65,0:31:33.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,father's lap. And her father is still in\NHong Kong with her brother and sister.
Dialogue: 0,0:31:33.74,0:31:43.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Satyam de and Denath, and we would like to\Nsee this family being reunited in Canada
Dialogue: 0,0:31:43.26,0:31:54.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and we're asking Canada to act fast, as\Nfast as possible. She has a sister who
Dialogue: 0,0:31:54.81,0:32:00.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,only thinks about in Hong Kong something,\Nwho only thinks about being reunited with
Dialogue: 0,0:32:00.84,0:32:06.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Keana in Montreal. And at this time, with\Nthe with the police abuses, the government
Dialogue: 0,0:32:06.46,0:32:12.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,abuses in Hong Kong Sethumdi she has been\Ntraumatized and she suffered permanent
Dialogue: 0,0:32:12.19,0:32:17.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,damage. The whole family is afraid. They\Nlive in fear and they are at heightened
Dialogue: 0,0:32:17.13,0:32:24.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,risk with the lawlessness in Hong Kong.\NThe lawlessness by the Hong Kong police. I
Dialogue: 0,0:32:24.78,0:32:29.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,just want to share this picture, which was\Ntaken by Jane Russell in August this year.
Dialogue: 0,0:32:29.32,0:32:34.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,This is the Hong Kong Police Tactical Unit\Nin Fanling. And you'll notice that there's
Dialogue: 0,0:32:34.25,0:32:43.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,no Hong Kong flag. And Jane Russell,\Nphotojournalist, pointed this out. And it
Dialogue: 0,0:32:43.41,0:32:48.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,was at that point we all realized that the\Nhand of Beijing was apparently acting
Dialogue: 0,0:32:48.81,0:33:03.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,directly inside Hong Kong. Directing the\NHong Kong police. What's happened in Hong
Dialogue: 0,0:33:03.68,0:33:12.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Kong, is the same thing that you see in\NSri Lanka, in Bangladesh, Pakistan, India,
Dialogue: 0,0:33:12.33,0:33:18.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,where the government allows the police to\Ncommit abuses state sanctioned or the
Dialogue: 0,0:33:18.54,0:33:22.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,police commit abuses and the government\Nturns a blind eye. And that amounts to
Dialogue: 0,0:33:22.63,0:33:27.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,state acquiescence. And what's happened in\NHong Kong is, what you see classically in
Dialogue: 0,0:33:27.25,0:33:32.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Sri Lanka or the Philippines, where third\Nprivate parties take the law into their
Dialogue: 0,0:33:32.67,0:33:39.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,own hands and go after innocent civilians\Nor peaceful protesters. Hong Kong has
Dialogue: 0,0:33:39.76,0:33:46.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,become a very dangerous place today. And\Nmy clients lives are at risk, at a
Dialogue: 0,0:33:46.12,0:33:56.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,heightened risk. I thought I would share\Nthis image taken by Keana's father of
Dialogue: 0,0:33:56.72,0:34:03.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[inaudible] during the protests.\NAnd this is what these children are
Dialogue: 0,0:34:03.79,0:34:13.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,growing up in this kind of environment\Nright now. Where really where they should
Dialogue: 0,0:34:13.99,0:34:24.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,be, is in this environment. And this is\NVanessa and Keana in Montreal, Quebec, not
Dialogue: 0,0:34:24.33,0:34:33.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,just earlier this month. Now, what I'd\Nlike to do in saying that is I'd like to
Dialogue: 0,0:34:33.13,0:35:26.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,invite Mr. Snowden to join us. Dom. Check.\NEdward Snowden: Can anyone hear me? Thank
Dialogue: 0,0:35:26.07,0:35:27.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you.\N{\i1}Applause{\i0}
Dialogue: 0,0:35:27.07,0:35:33.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We have very little time. So let me first\Ngive thanks to Robert Tibbo. I know it's
Dialogue: 0,0:35:33.25,0:35:40.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,not always fun for Rudy to sit through,\Nwhat is effectively a long lecture about
Dialogue: 0,0:35:40.92,0:35:45.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,what's wrong with the world. But these\Nthings matter and it's important that we
Dialogue: 0,0:35:45.18,0:35:51.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,remember how they get better. I've been\Nthinking a lot this year and writing my
Dialogue: 0,0:35:51.94,0:35:58.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,book, Permanent Record and after about the\Nstate of the world and the direction of
Dialogue: 0,0:35:58.39,0:36:01.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,our future.\N{\i1}laughing{\i0}
Dialogue: 0,0:36:01.48,0:36:06.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I trust that each of you will understand\Nthat in 2019 this was not an especially
Dialogue: 0,0:36:06.49,0:36:12.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,enjoyable activity, but it's necessary.\NAnd one of the bright spots for me in this
Dialogue: 0,0:36:12.65,0:36:20.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,increasingly dark world has been the fact\Nthat people like you, that CCC has
Dialogue: 0,0:36:20.99,0:36:27.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,supported these families over the last few\Nyears. They made a difference for me.
Dialogue: 0,0:36:27.02,0:36:29.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Think think about, what would have\Nhappened if I wouldn't have been able to
Dialogue: 0,0:36:29.83,0:36:33.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,get off the street. Think about what might\Nhave happened to me. I think about the
Dialogue: 0,0:36:33.52,0:36:37.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,fact that I wouldn't be able to talk to\Nyou today and all these years since the
Dialogue: 0,0:36:37.04,0:36:44.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,book that I wrote would not exist. It\Nmight seem like a small thing, you know,
Dialogue: 0,0:36:44.84,0:36:49.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to you, to it to give a donation to help\Nout. But I believe that it really has
Dialogue: 0,0:36:49.13,0:36:56.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,genuinely changed the future of these\Nbrave families in a positive way. And so
Dialogue: 0,0:36:56.26,0:37:01.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,when I'm thinking about everything that's\Nbroken in the world. It got me thinking
Dialogue: 0,0:37:01.21,0:37:05.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,about the lessons that can be taken from\Nthem and how they fit into a larger
Dialogue: 0,0:37:05.80,0:37:11.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,framework. We have pretty limited time\Nhere. So I'm going to do something a
Dialogue: 0,0:37:11.87,0:37:20.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,little bit unusual to try to summarize and\Nread a little passage from the book. What
Dialogue: 0,0:37:20.74,0:37:28.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,makes a life? It's more than what we say.\NMore even than what we do. A life is also
Dialogue: 0,0:37:28.39,0:37:34.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,about what we love and what we believe in.\NFor me, what I love and believe in the
Dialogue: 0,0:37:34.88,0:37:41.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,most is connection, human connection and\Nthe technologies by which that's achieved.
Dialogue: 0,0:37:41.02,0:37:44.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Those technologies include books, of\Ncourse. But for my generation, connection
Dialogue: 0,0:37:44.48,0:37:50.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,has largely met the Internet. Now, before\Na lot of you recoil, knowing how broken
Dialogue: 0,0:37:50.12,0:37:54.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the Internet, the toxic madness that's all\Nover it. I understand that for me, as it
Dialogue: 0,0:37:54.56,0:37:58.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,was for, I believe many of you, when I\Ncame to know it. The Internet was a very
Dialogue: 0,0:37:58.60,0:38:03.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,different thing. It was a friend and a\Nparent. It was a community without borders
Dialogue: 0,0:38:03.36,0:38:09.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or limit. One voice and millions, a common\Nfrontier that had been settled, but not
Dialogue: 0,0:38:09.44,0:38:15.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,exploited by diverse tribes living\Namicably enough side by side. Each member
Dialogue: 0,0:38:15.13,0:38:22.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,which was free to choose their own name\Nand history and culture. Everyone wore
Dialogue: 0,0:38:22.71,0:38:29.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,masks. And yet this culture of anonymity\Nthrough polyanomy produced more truth and
Dialogue: 0,0:38:29.70,0:38:34.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,falsehood, because it was creative and\Ncooperative rather than commercial and
Dialogue: 0,0:38:34.77,0:38:40.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,competitive. Certainly there was conflict,\Nbut it was outweighed by goodwill and good
Dialogue: 0,0:38:40.93,0:38:47.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,feelings. The true pioneering spirit.\NYou'll understand why I say, that the
Dialogue: 0,0:38:47.24,0:38:51.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,internet today is in many ways\Nunrecognizable. It's worth noting that
Dialogue: 0,0:38:51.85,0:38:58.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,this change has been a conscious choice,\Nthe result of a systematic effort on the
Dialogue: 0,0:38:58.06,0:39:05.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,part of a privileged few. The early rush\Nto turn commerce into e-commerce quickly
Dialogue: 0,0:39:05.55,0:39:11.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,led to a bubble and then, just after the\Nterm of the millennium, to a collapse.
Dialogue: 0,0:39:11.67,0:39:15.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,After that, companies realized that people\Nwho went online were far less interested
Dialogue: 0,0:39:15.07,0:39:22.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in spending than in sharing, and that the human\Nconnection, the internet made possible,
Dialogue: 0,0:39:22.49,0:39:28.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,could be monetized. If most of what people\Nwanted to do online, was to be able to
Dialogue: 0,0:39:28.80,0:39:33.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,tell their family and their friends and\Nstrangers what they were up to and to be
Dialogue: 0,0:39:33.70,0:39:38.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,told what their family, friends and\Nstrangers were up to in return, then all
Dialogue: 0,0:39:38.06,0:39:41.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,companies had to do to figure out how to\Nput them was figure out how to put
Dialogue: 0,0:39:41.93,0:39:47.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,themselves in the middle of those social\Nexchanges and turn them into profit. This
Dialogue: 0,0:39:47.55,0:39:54.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,was the beginning of surveying capitalism\Nand the end of the Internet, as I know it
Dialogue: 0,0:39:54.60,0:40:00.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,now. It was the creative web that\Ncollapsed as countless beautiful,
Dialogue: 0,0:40:00.21,0:40:05.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,difficult, individualized web sites were\Nshuttered. The promise of convenience led
Dialogue: 0,0:40:05.63,0:40:09.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,people to exchange their personal sites,\Nwhich demanded constant and laborious
Dialogue: 0,0:40:09.52,0:40:15.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,upkeep. As you are known for a Facebook\Npage and a Gmail account, the appearance
Dialogue: 0,0:40:15.10,0:40:22.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of ownership was easy to mistake for the\Nreality of it. But few of us understood it
Dialogue: 0,0:40:22.86,0:40:31.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,at the time. None of the things that we go\Non to share would belong to us anymore.
Dialogue: 0,0:40:31.03,0:40:35.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The successors to the emerge commerce\Ncompanies that had failed because they
Dialogue: 0,0:40:35.10,0:40:43.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,couldn't find anything to sell, that we\Nwere interested in. They now had a new
Dialogue: 0,0:40:43.50,0:40:50.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,product to sell, and that product was us,\Nour attention, our activities, our
Dialogue: 0,0:40:50.30,0:40:54.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,locations, our desires, everything about\Nus, that we revealed knowingly or
Dialogue: 0,0:40:54.86,0:41:00.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,unknowingly, with or without consent, was\Nbeing surveilled and sold in secret so as
Dialogue: 0,0:41:00.53,0:41:06.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to delay the inevitable feeling violation\Nthat is for most of us arriving now. And
Dialogue: 0,0:41:06.98,0:41:11.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,this surveillance would go on to be\Nactively encouraged and even funded by an
Dialogue: 0,0:41:11.45,0:41:15.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,army of governments greedy for the vast\Nvolume of intelligence that they would
Dialogue: 0,0:41:15.41,0:41:20.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,gain from these practices. Aside from logins\Nand financial transactions, hardly any
Dialogue: 0,0:41:20.89,0:41:25.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,communications were encrypted in the early\Ntwenty aughts, which meant that in many
Dialogue: 0,0:41:25.58,0:41:30.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,cases governments didn't need to even\Nbother approaching the companies that were
Dialogue: 0,0:41:30.96,0:41:36.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,running these platforms in order to know\Nwhat their customers were doing. They
Dialogue: 0,0:41:36.52,0:41:46.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,could just spy on the world without\Ntelling a soul. And now I ask you, is this
Dialogue: 0,0:41:46.80,0:41:53.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,what the world should look like and how\Ndid this come to be? We were there. We
Dialogue: 0,0:41:53.66,0:42:00.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,were watching, and we thought we\Ncontrolled the system. We thought we ran
Dialogue: 0,0:42:00.13,0:42:07.01,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the system. We thought it was our\NInternet. But here we are. Surveillance,
Dialogue: 0,0:42:07.01,0:42:13.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,after all, is less about safety than it is\Nabout control. And when you look around at
Dialogue: 0,0:42:13.35,0:42:18.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the union of technical and political\Nsystems today, it seems that they intend
Dialogue: 0,0:42:18.52,0:42:26.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,less to serve us than for us to serve\Nthem. And it's funny talking about this at
Dialogue: 0,0:42:26.79,0:42:36.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,CCC, because to me it it feels like a\Nhack. You know what is hacking, I'm sure,
Dialogue: 0,0:42:36.18,0:42:42.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,all you guys have different definitions.\NBut in my definition, it's not just
Dialogue: 0,0:42:42.39,0:42:49.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,programing. Of course, we wouldn't see\Nterms like bio hacking. Hacking is about
Dialogue: 0,0:42:49.57,0:42:56.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,rules and the distance between how they\Nare believed to operate and how they
Dialogue: 0,0:42:56.60,0:43:03.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,operate in fact. Hacking for me means,\Ncoming to understand a system better than
Dialogue: 0,0:43:03.23,0:43:10.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,its creators or its operators and using\Nthat understanding to produce impossible
Dialogue: 0,0:43:10.96,0:43:19.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,results, unexpected behavior. Thanks so\Nmuch. Now we'd like to think about hacks
Dialogue: 0,0:43:19.53,0:43:25.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in a positive light, but in the case of\Nthese last few decades, it's our society
Dialogue: 0,0:43:25.56,0:43:30.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that was hacked. It is the whole of our\Nnetwork. It is the Internet itself, that
Dialogue: 0,0:43:30.16,0:43:38.01,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,they exploit. And you see that. That's the\Nthing. The choices that we make and the
Dialogue: 0,0:43:38.01,0:43:47.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,things that you do. They have power and\Ndoing nothing, that that's a choice. Now,
Dialogue: 0,0:43:47.85,0:43:53.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a lot of us like to think it's a willing\Nchoice. We'd like to think that we're the
Dialogue: 0,0:43:53.74,0:43:58.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,sole captains of our own destiny. And\Nthat's the way it's supposed to be. That's
Dialogue: 0,0:43:58.03,0:44:03.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the way it was intended. That's the way we\Ndesigned the system. And yet the system
Dialogue: 0,0:44:03.12,0:44:09.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,today. Somehow the actors within it spend\Nan enormous amount of energy trying to
Dialogue: 0,0:44:09.26,0:44:14.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,make you forget, that the things you do\Naffect the outcome. They'll tell you not
Dialogue: 0,0:44:14.68,0:44:19.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to worry about it. That that it's not so\Nbad after all. You know, it could be
Dialogue: 0,0:44:19.78,0:44:28.01,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,worse. But I say to you, it could be\Nbetter. And every time we hear those
Dialogue: 0,0:44:28.01,0:44:34.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,words, that's what we need to say. Every\Nsystem in history, even the most powerful,
Dialogue: 0,0:44:34.31,0:44:42.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,has been subject to change. And every hack\Nthat is performed against us, can face a
Dialogue: 0,0:44:42.83,0:44:50.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,patch and more in all of the trouble to\Nwhich these people have gone, to to make
Dialogue: 0,0:44:50.88,0:44:55.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the people broadly forget their own power,\Nthey have forgotten something that I think
Dialogue: 0,0:44:55.91,0:45:06.01,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is fundamental. We can hack back. They run\Nthe system. They may have won today. But
Dialogue: 0,0:45:06.01,0:45:09.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I've been thinking about this, look, we\Nall know the history and it has been a
Dialogue: 0,0:45:09.34,0:45:17.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,dark time. But I'm here today in front of\Nyou to say that tomorrow will be ours.
Dialogue: 0,0:45:17.02,0:45:22.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Change is coming and it is coming from\Npeople who pay attention. People who care.
Dialogue: 0,0:45:22.88,0:45:28.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It will come from people like you, who\Ntook the time out of the day, out of their
Dialogue: 0,0:45:28.04,0:45:32.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,lives. The money out of their pocket to\Ntravel. The time, the minutes of your life
Dialogue: 0,0:45:32.49,0:45:42.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to be here today, standing in solidarity,\Ntalking, learning, sharing to show that
Dialogue: 0,0:45:42.14,0:45:51.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,this broken world could very well be\Nbetter. We can change it. We can change
Dialogue: 0,0:45:51.07,0:45:57.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,everything. One system, one rule at a\Ntime. Thank you.
Dialogue: 0,0:45:57.91,0:46:31.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,{\i1}Applause{\i0}\NI just hope it's not kind of I no longer
Dialogue: 0,0:46:31.13,0:46:33.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,have audio, so I'm afraid I won't be able\Nto.
Dialogue: 0,0:46:33.77,0:46:37.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Robert Tibbo: Ed, we've got Vanessa on the\Nscreen, half the screen with you right
Dialogue: 0,0:46:37.56,0:46:44.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,now. And she's, uh, she's on video live\Nfrom Montreal. And can you...
Dialogue: 0,0:46:44.56,0:46:51.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,ES: Just if it's not clear I can't do\Nanything even so, I'm a bystander now. I'm
Dialogue: 0,0:46:51.33,0:47:00.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,going to go to the stream and hopefully\NRobert and Vanessa can help us for the Q&A
Dialogue: 0,0:47:00.71,0:47:09.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,RT: Ed, do you want to do a Q&A right now\Nor do you want to. They've lost that. All
Dialogue: 0,0:47:09.64,0:47:19.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,right, so, yeah. So Vanessa's in Montreal\Nand I've invited here her here today. And
Dialogue: 0,0:47:19.65,0:47:26.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,so why don't we just start with a Q and A?\NThis is this is really it's Vanessa's
Dialogue: 0,0:47:26.61,0:47:32.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,first year after a decade and a half of\Nbeing under very difficult circumstances.
Dialogue: 0,0:47:32.94,0:47:45.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,{\i1}Applause{\i0}\NHerald: Also, you know the drill. We have
Dialogue: 0,0:47:45.28,0:47:49.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,microphones in the halls. Please line up\Nbehind them. If you have question for a
Dialogue: 0,0:47:49.33,0:47:56.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Robert Tibbo or Vanessa and hopefully Mr.\NSnowden will join us again, I think we're
Dialogue: 0,0:47:56.83,0:48:04.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,working out the background. Do we have\Nquestions from the Internet so far? Yes,
Dialogue: 0,0:48:04.90,0:48:08.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that is the case. So, Signal-Engel, please\Ngive us a question.
Dialogue: 0,0:48:08.90,0:48:12.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Signal-Angel: Do you think that\Nwhistleblowing could have prevented
Dialogue: 0,0:48:12.22,0:48:17.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,fascist received regimes in the past and\Nthat it will be more important in the near
Dialogue: 0,0:48:17.28,0:48:26.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,future for the same reason?\NRT: Questions for me, I'm assuming.
Dialogue: 0,0:48:26.97,0:48:34.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Whistleblowing has always occurred in the\Npast and it has brought about change.
Dialogue: 0,0:48:34.74,0:48:40.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Historically there, you know, there are\Nrecorded cases, but the difficulties in
Dialogue: 0,0:48:40.40,0:48:45.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the past were the lack of protections.\NQuite often in whistleblowers had to leave
Dialogue: 0,0:48:45.71,0:48:52.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the jurisdiction. They would end up being\Nkilled. And and really, it's only in
Dialogue: 0,0:48:52.78,0:48:59.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,recent history and in particular with with\NEdward Snowden's whistleblowing, that
Dialogue: 0,0:48:59.52,0:49:05.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,governments around the world, including\Nthe European Union as a whole, recognize
Dialogue: 0,0:49:05.69,0:49:12.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that there needs to be change. There needs\Nto be more protections. But we're also
Dialogue: 0,0:49:12.28,0:49:17.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,seeing that nations are providing enhanced\Nwhistleblower protections. But on the
Dialogue: 0,0:49:17.62,0:49:23.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,commercial civil side and they're still\Nlagging significantly, where there's
Dialogue: 0,0:49:23.23,0:49:28.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,whistleblowing outing governments that\Nbehave egregiously or criminally, as in
Dialogue: 0,0:49:28.63,0:49:36.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Mr. Snowden's case. So more than ever,\Nwhistleblowing will remain and will
Dialogue: 0,0:49:36.62,0:49:41.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,continue to be a crucial part of ensuring\Ngovernment accountability and
Dialogue: 0,0:49:41.86,0:49:47.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,transparency. But for whistleblowers to\Nstep forward, a couple of things have to
Dialogue: 0,0:49:47.27,0:49:52.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,happen. Society needs to be stepping up\Nand demanding government that there be
Dialogue: 0,0:49:52.88,0:49:59.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,protections for whistleblowers,\Nparticularly like Mr. Snowden. And
Dialogue: 0,0:49:59.28,0:50:08.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,secondly, we've seen the government go\Nafter with the Snowden refugees and made
Dialogue: 0,0:50:08.32,0:50:16.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,their lives intolerable. There exists in\Nexistence intolerable in Hong Kong and the
Dialogue: 0,0:50:16.51,0:50:22.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,delay of so many years to get Vanessa and\NKeana on the screen now into Canada and
Dialogue: 0,0:50:22.95,0:50:28.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the other families here in Hong Kong, who\Nare suffering right now, was the the
Dialogue: 0,0:50:28.75,0:50:36.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,global leadership saying, don't protect a\Nwhistleblower, because this is what's
Dialogue: 0,0:50:36.33,0:50:44.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,gonna happen to you. So I hope that\NVanessa and Keana's arrivaled refuge in
Dialogue: 0,0:50:44.07,0:50:49.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Canada to safety and security, is an\Nexample for the whole world that there
Dialogue: 0,0:50:49.58,0:50:53.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,will be more whistleblowers. But there\Nalso needs to be people in the general
Dialogue: 0,0:50:53.65,0:50:59.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,population who say, look, we need to\Nsupport them and to take steps to make
Dialogue: 0,0:50:59.48,0:51:03.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,whistle, make sure whistleblowers can\Nremain safe, but also when democratic
Dialogue: 0,0:51:03.43,0:51:09.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,systems to put pressure on government, to\Nmake changes and whistleblower
Dialogue: 0,0:51:09.20,0:51:12.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,protections.\NSignal-Angel: Thank you a lot for the
Dialogue: 0,0:51:12.44,0:51:16.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,detailed answer. We have some more\Nquestions. But before we continue with
Dialogue: 0,0:51:16.33,0:51:21.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,them, I would like to ask all of you to\Nstay seated and stay quiet. Some people
Dialogue: 0,0:51:21.27,0:51:25.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,are leaving already the hall. Please\Ndon't. And please stay quiet so we can
Dialogue: 0,0:51:25.82,0:51:31.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,enjoy the last minutes of this lovely Q\Nand A. You can also ask questions to
Dialogue: 0,0:51:31.51,0:51:37.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Vanessa, who played a crucial role in\Nsheltering Mr. Snowden back in Hong Kong.
Dialogue: 0,0:51:37.81,0:51:43.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And for now, I would like to hear a\Nquestion from microphone number three.
Dialogue: 0,0:51:43.22,0:51:49.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Mic 3: Hi. I'm [inaudible] Hi, I'm a Pakistani\Njournalist in exile. So thank you for the
Dialogue: 0,0:51:49.44,0:51:57.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,talk. It's been super inspiring. My\Nquestion to Vanessa is that looking back
Dialogue: 0,0:51:57.20,0:52:02.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,now that you everything that you suffer.\NWould you say that if you were given a
Dialogue: 0,0:52:02.52,0:52:08.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,choice, that you could do this all over\Nagain and not do this at all? Would you?
Dialogue: 0,0:52:08.30,0:52:49.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Which one would you choose?\NVanessa: If I had the chance again [inaudible]
Dialogue: 0,0:52:49.89,0:53:01.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,{\i1}Applause{\i0}\NHerald: Can we have another question from
Dialogue: 0,0:53:01.99,0:53:07.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the Internet?\NSignal-Angel: It's a question for Vanessa.
Dialogue: 0,0:53:07.23,0:53:35.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,How are you settling down in Montreal and\Nhas the community received you well?
Dialogue: 0,0:53:35.92,0:54:14.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Vanessa: {\i1}inaudible{\i0}\NHerald: Thank you for this answer. Do we
Dialogue: 0,0:54:14.76,0:54:19.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,have more questions in the hall? I sat at\Na microphone and I can't see you right
Dialogue: 0,0:54:19.43,0:54:26.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,now. Please wink if you do. I think that's\Nnot the case. Signal-Angel. Do we have one
Dialogue: 0,0:54:26.21,0:54:31.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,more question from you? Or wait?\NMicrophone number two, please go ahead.
Dialogue: 0,0:54:31.50,0:54:36.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Mic. 2: I don't know which one of you can\Nanswer that, but what's causing the delay?
Dialogue: 0,0:54:36.29,0:54:40.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Why is the families still separated? Is\Nthere any indication why Canada doesn't
Dialogue: 0,0:54:40.39,0:54:45.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,process the search for asylum?\NRT: *To an Angel: I want to put this on
Dialogue: 0,0:54:45.16,0:54:55.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,last. OK?\NRT: The Snowden refugee cases, it has been
Dialogue: 0,0:54:55.62,0:55:05.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a long delay and it's been too long. And\Nat this stage, the Canadian government is
Dialogue: 0,0:55:05.45,0:55:14.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is progressing with the cases and these\Nare complex cases. At this stage, that's
Dialogue: 0,0:55:14.83,0:55:21.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,all I can really say. We all want the\Nother families supporting the DEKA, the
Dialogue: 0,0:55:21.18,0:55:25.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,two children, Kiena's brother and sister.\NAnd we want to treat this, the former
Dialogue: 0,0:55:25.07,0:55:30.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,soldier, and we want them in Canada. We\Nwant them in at the earliest time. And
Dialogue: 0,0:55:30.76,0:55:34.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,this is really the only solution. It's the\Nright solution for the these extraordinary
Dialogue: 0,0:55:34.73,0:55:37.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,people. {\i1}Applaus{\i0}\NMic 2: Thank You.
Dialogue: 0,0:55:37.62,0:55:46.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,{\i1}Applause{\i0}\NSo apparently we have Edward Snowden
Dialogue: 0,0:55:46.92,0:55:51.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,back.The connection is established again.\NThere is a question for him, then he's run
Dialogue: 0,0:55:51.03,0:55:54.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to a microphone because that's your only\Nchance. That's probably the last question
Dialogue: 0,0:55:54.96,0:55:59.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of this session. Microphone number four,\Nwhat's your question? Qualified?
Dialogue: 0,0:55:59.93,0:56:05.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Mic. 4: Yes, I think so. What an aura.\NThought. Thank you, everybody. My question
Dialogue: 0,0:56:05.69,0:56:14.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,quick. So, Mr. Snowden, you said we should\Nput pressure and make change. And do you
Dialogue: 0,0:56:14.61,0:56:20.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,think we should pressure our own\Ngovernment locally or that we pressure our
Dialogue: 0,0:56:20.89,0:56:26.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,government to pressure other governments?\NSo, for example, which sanctions through
Dialogue: 0,0:56:26.33,0:56:30.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,these countries that Mr. Tibbo mentioned?\NThat's a quick.
Dialogue: 0,0:56:30.65,0:56:40.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,ES: Yes. I think we need to look at where\Ncan we be the most effective. This is a
Dialogue: 0,0:56:40.55,0:56:44.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,difficult question, I think, for people\Nwho are in advanced democracies. And
Dialogue: 0,0:56:44.40,0:56:47.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because you see all the terrible things\Nthat are happening all over the world, you
Dialogue: 0,0:56:47.36,0:56:50.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,see the situation in Russia, you see the\Nsituation in China, you see the Russia
Dialogue: 0,0:56:50.71,0:56:55.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,situation in Iran and North Korea. And of\Ncourse, where you can make a difference, I
Dialogue: 0,0:56:55.57,0:57:02.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,think you always should act. Even in my\Ncase, there have been things where I have
Dialogue: 0,0:57:02.40,0:57:06.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,been criticizing, of course, the Russian\Ngovernment, even though I live here, even
Dialogue: 0,0:57:06.66,0:57:11.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,though it's dangerous to do. I don't think\Nthere's much likelihood that the Russian
Dialogue: 0,0:57:11.80,0:57:16.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,government is likely to listen to me. I\Ndon't think there's much likelihood that
Dialogue: 0,0:57:16.53,0:57:22.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the Russian people will listen to me in\Nthat circumstance, because I'm not
Dialogue: 0,0:57:22.61,0:57:30.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Russian. I don't speak the language. I\Ncan't persuade them. But you can persuade
Dialogue: 0,0:57:30.02,0:57:34.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the people that you're around. You can\Npersuade the community. And that's really
Dialogue: 0,0:57:34.54,0:57:38.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,when we talk about hacking, when we talk\Nabout systems. Right. The whole thing that
Dialogue: 0,0:57:38.48,0:57:45.01,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,they used against us was, that they\Nthought, we thought, you know, the system,
Dialogue: 0,0:57:45.01,0:57:50.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,our democracy, our methods of voting, our\Nmethods of policing the Internet, of
Dialogue: 0,0:57:50.87,0:57:58.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,managing and sharing our communications\Nworked in a certain way. And how they were
Dialogue: 0,0:57:58.10,0:58:01.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,actually being used, how they were\Nactually being implemented, how they were
Dialogue: 0,0:58:01.11,0:58:07.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,actually being operated in many cases\Nagainst us. That was not clear in secrecy.
Dialogue: 0,0:58:07.48,0:58:13.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,In many cases was responsible for this.\NBut when you talk about where you can make
Dialogue: 0,0:58:13.88,0:58:19.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the most difference, it's in this room.\NIt's the friendships you make that you
Dialogue: 0,0:58:19.30,0:58:23.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,take with you. It's the networks of\Nsolidarity and influence that you build,
Dialogue: 0,0:58:23.72,0:58:28.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the sharing of skill sets and cooperation\Nthat will allow you to influence people
Dialogue: 0,0:58:28.87,0:58:33.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,even outside your areas of expertise,\Ngoing to politics, going to local
Dialogue: 0,0:58:33.83,0:58:37.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,officials, using the local officials to\Nget the state officials, using the state
Dialogue: 0,0:58:37.12,0:58:41.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,officials to get to national, using the\Nnational to get to the international. What
Dialogue: 0,0:58:41.69,0:58:47.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we have to do is we have to take a hard\Nlook at how the world actually operates
Dialogue: 0,0:58:47.12,0:58:52.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,today. Not how we wanted to operate, not\Nhow we think it operates, but to measure
Dialogue: 0,0:58:52.50,0:58:55.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it, to see how it's actually function and\Nto see where the money goes, to see who's
Dialogue: 0,0:58:55.88,0:59:02.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,using it, to see where the influence is.\NAnd in many cases, to seize control of
Dialogue: 0,0:59:02.81,0:59:10.15,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that via whatever means that we have\Navailable to us. This is where we get the
Dialogue: 0,0:59:10.15,0:59:14.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,technical systems that, the people in this\Nroom have an extraordinary amount of
Dialogue: 0,0:59:14.75,0:59:18.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,influence over that. We may not have in\Nthe political realm. If you make a phone
Dialogue: 0,0:59:18.88,0:59:23.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,call and that gets used around the world,\Nyou can provide the same guarantees, the
Dialogue: 0,0:59:23.54,0:59:27.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,same protection to someone in China, to\Nsomeone in Russia that they have in
Dialogue: 0,0:59:27.75,0:59:34.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Germany, because technology can be\Nagnostic to its use. And if we make these
Dialogue: 0,0:59:34.61,0:59:41.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,carve outs, if we make these sort of\Nemissions, if we make concessions to
Dialogue: 0,0:59:41.47,0:59:48.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,power, to system, to government, to\Ninstitutions, we have to think about how
Dialogue: 0,0:59:48.70,0:59:54.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,they will be used. The more rules in the\Nsystem, the more lines of complexity there
Dialogue: 0,0:59:54.80,1:00:00.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,are, the greater the unseen attack surface\Nthat can be used against us. We need to
Dialogue: 0,1:00:00.71,1:00:09.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,design for tomorrow. But there is no time\Nto wait. We need to be working today.
Dialogue: 0,1:00:09.31,1:00:21.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,{\i1}Applause.{\i0}\NAnd if I could just say one thing. Thank
Dialogue: 0,1:00:21.39,1:00:24.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you, everyone, for your patience and for\Nbearing with us through all of this. I'm
Dialogue: 0,1:00:24.59,1:00:30.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,gonna shut up and give this back to\NRobert, but everybody asks, you know, how
Dialogue: 0,1:00:30.26,1:00:35.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,can I make a difference? This is all very\Ngood. It's very abstract. Again, be
Dialogue: 0,1:00:35.11,1:00:39.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,opportunistic. Look at where you can make\Na difference right now. In the case of
Dialogue: 0,1:00:39.23,1:00:43.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,these families, we are almost across the\Nfinish line. We had been in this fight for
Dialogue: 0,1:00:43.23,1:00:48.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,years and we are about to win. We can do\Nit with your help. So please, if you can
Dialogue: 0,1:00:48.50,1:01:03.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,support them, do. Thank you.\N{\i1}Applause{\i0}
Dialogue: 0,1:01:03.87,1:01:09.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Herald: I have to extend a huge thanks to\Nyou, Mr. Robert, to go to you. Edward
Dialogue: 0,1:01:09.36,1:01:14.01,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Snowden, thank you for coming on our\Nstream and thank you, Vanessa, for coming
Dialogue: 0,1:01:14.01,1:01:21.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to us as well. This is, this was a lovely\Nevent and Mr. Snowden asked you to help.
Dialogue: 0,1:01:21.03,1:01:27.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And this is how, this is how, Robert, if\Nyou like to say some last words?
Dialogue: 0,1:01:27.27,1:01:33.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,RT: I would. This has been a long fight.\NIt's we're in the eighth year now, and
Dialogue: 0,1:01:33.09,1:01:39.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,there's no way that we're gonna get to the\Nfinish line unless donations are made.
Dialogue: 0,1:01:39.77,1:01:44.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Whatever you can help with, if it's if\Nit's a small amount of change, that's
Dialogue: 0,1:01:44.25,1:01:47.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,fine. If you can donate something more\Nsignificantly. Of course, that's going to
Dialogue: 0,1:01:47.72,1:01:55.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,help. But it's all about food, rent,\Nutilities, and also for Vanessa and Keana
Dialogue: 0,1:01:55.67,1:02:01.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and Montreal. We, the NGO, is under a\Nlegal obligation to continue to support
Dialogue: 0,1:02:01.64,1:02:07.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,them financially for the first full year,\Nthat they're there in Montreal and they do
Dialogue: 0,1:02:07.16,1:02:13.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,need that support. The one thing all\Nstresses the climate has been a big shock
Dialogue: 0,1:02:13.43,1:02:19.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for Vanessa and Keana, and it costs a lot\Nof money to get winter jackets or, you
Dialogue: 0,1:02:19.12,1:02:25.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,know, jackets for autumn shoes, boots. So\Nit's been at times it's been rough for
Dialogue: 0,1:02:25.96,1:02:31.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,them. But one solution is the donations\Nthat make sure they have warm clothes and
Dialogue: 0,1:02:31.06,1:02:36.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,food, etc.. And of course, the clients in\NHong Kong that they have almost no
Dialogue: 0,1:02:36.02,1:02:42.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,government humanitarian support. So if you\Ncan donate. We continue to donate. We all
Dialogue: 0,1:02:42.06,1:02:46.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,appreciate this. And thank you so much.
Dialogue: 0,1:02:46.25,1:02:57.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,{\i1}Applause{\i0}
Dialogue: 0,1:02:57.29,1:03:01.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,{\i1}36c3 postroll music{\i0}
Dialogue: 0,1:03:01.31,1:03:25.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Subtitles created by c3subtitles.de\Nin the year 2020. Join, and help us!