Why monkeys (and humans) are wired for fairness
-
0:01 - 0:05My first year in graduate school,
studying cooperation in monkeys, -
0:05 - 0:07I spent a lot of time outside,
-
0:07 - 0:10just watching our groups
of capuchin monkeys interact. -
0:10 - 0:14One afternoon, I was out back
feeding peanuts to one of our groups, -
0:14 - 0:17which required distracting
one of our males, Ozzie, -
0:17 - 0:19enough so that the other monkeys
could get some. -
0:19 - 0:21Ozzie loved peanuts,
-
0:21 - 0:25and he always tried to do
anything he could to grab some. -
0:25 - 0:27On that day, however,
-
0:27 - 0:30he began trying to bring other things
from his enclosure to me -
0:30 - 0:33and trade them with me
in order to get a peanut. -
0:33 - 0:37Now, capuchins are smart,
so this wasn't necessarily a surprise. -
0:37 - 0:39But what was a surprise
-
0:39 - 0:41was that some of the things
that he was bringing me, -
0:41 - 0:44I was pretty sure he liked
better than peanuts. -
0:45 - 0:47First, he brought me
a piece of monkey chow, -
0:47 - 0:49which is like dried dog food --
-
0:49 - 0:51it was even made by Purina --
-
0:51 - 0:54and for a monkey,
is about as worthless as it gets. -
0:54 - 0:56Of course, I didn't give him
a peanut for that. -
0:56 - 0:58But he kept trying,
-
0:58 - 1:02and eventually, he brought me
a quarter of an orange -
1:02 - 1:05and tried to trade it
with me for a peanut. -
1:05 - 1:08Now, oranges are a valuable
monkey commodity, -
1:08 - 1:11so this trade seemed, shall I say,
a little bit nuts? -
1:12 - 1:15Now you may be wondering
how we know what monkeys prefer. -
1:15 - 1:16Well, we ask them,
-
1:16 - 1:18by giving them a choice between two foods
-
1:18 - 1:20and seeing which one they pick.
-
1:20 - 1:23Generally speaking,
their preferences are a lot like ours: -
1:23 - 1:26the sweeter it is, the more they like it.
-
1:26 - 1:28So, much like humans prefer
cupcakes to kale, -
1:28 - 1:32monkeys prefer fruits,
like oranges or grapes, -
1:32 - 1:33to vegetables like cucumbers,
-
1:33 - 1:35and all of this to monkey chow.
-
1:36 - 1:38And peanuts are not bad.
-
1:38 - 1:41However, they definitely don't prefer them
to a chunk of orange. -
1:41 - 1:45So when Ozzie tried to trade
a quarter of an orange for a peanut, -
1:45 - 1:46it was a surprise,
-
1:46 - 1:50and I began to wonder
if he suddenly wanted that peanut -
1:50 - 1:53because everybody else
in his group was getting one. -
1:53 - 1:56In case you're wondering,
I did give Ozzie his peanut. -
1:56 - 1:59But then I went straight
to my graduate adviser, -
1:59 - 2:00Frans de Waal,
-
2:00 - 2:02and we began to design a study
-
2:02 - 2:04to see how the monkeys would respond
-
2:04 - 2:08when somebody else in their group
got a better reward than they did -
2:08 - 2:10for doing the same work.
-
2:11 - 2:12It was a very simple study.
-
2:12 - 2:14We took two monkeys from the same group
-
2:14 - 2:16and had them sit side by side,
-
2:16 - 2:18and they would do a task,
-
2:18 - 2:20which was trading a token with me,
-
2:20 - 2:23and if they did so successfully,
-
2:23 - 2:24they got a reward.
-
2:24 - 2:28The catch was that one monkey
always got a piece of cucumber, -
2:28 - 2:31and the other monkey
sometimes got a piece of cucumber, -
2:31 - 2:33but sometimes got a grape.
-
2:33 - 2:34And if you'll recall,
-
2:34 - 2:36grapes are much preferred to cucumbers
-
2:36 - 2:38on the capuchin monkey hierarchy.
-
2:38 - 2:40These are two of my capuchin monkeys.
-
2:40 - 2:43Winter, on the right,
is trading for a grape, -
2:43 - 2:46and Lance, on the left,
is trading for a cucumber. -
2:46 - 2:49You can see that she --
and yes, Lance is actually a female -- -
2:49 - 2:52is at first perfectly happy
with her cucumber, -
2:52 - 2:56until she sees Winter trading for a grape.
-
2:56 - 2:59Suddenly, Lance is very
enthusiastic about trading. -
2:59 - 3:03She gets her cucumber,
takes a bite and then -- -
3:03 - 3:06throws it right back out again.
-
3:07 - 3:10Meanwhile, Winter trades again
and gets another grape -
3:10 - 3:13and has Lance's undivided attention
while she eats it. -
3:14 - 3:15This time,
-
3:15 - 3:18Lance is not
so enthusiastic about trading. -
3:18 - 3:20But eventually, she does so.
-
3:20 - 3:23But when she gets the cucumber
this time around, -
3:23 - 3:26she doesn't even take a bite
-
3:26 - 3:28before she throws it back out again.
-
3:29 - 3:32Apparently, Lance only wants a cucumber
-
3:32 - 3:35when she hasn't just watched
Winter eat a grape. -
3:35 - 3:37And Lance was not alone in this.
-
3:37 - 3:41All of my capuchins were perfectly happy
with their cucumbers -
3:41 - 3:43as long as the other monkeys
were getting cucumbers too. -
3:43 - 3:46But they often weren't so happy
with their cucumbers -
3:46 - 3:49when other monkeys were getting a grape.
-
3:49 - 3:51The obvious question is why?
-
3:51 - 3:54If they liked those cucumbers before,
-
3:54 - 3:55what changed?
-
3:55 - 3:57Now, I'm a scientist,
-
3:57 - 4:01and scientists are famously shy
about reading too much into our studies, -
4:01 - 4:03especially when it comes
to what other animals -
4:03 - 4:04are thinking or feeling,
-
4:04 - 4:06because we can't ask them.
-
4:06 - 4:09But still, what I was seeing in my monkeys
-
4:09 - 4:12looked an awful lot like what we humans
would call a sense of fairness. -
4:12 - 4:14After all,
-
4:14 - 4:18the difference in that cucumber
was that it came after Winter got a grape, -
4:18 - 4:20rather than before.
-
4:20 - 4:23We humans are obsessed with fairness.
-
4:23 - 4:25I have a younger sister,
-
4:25 - 4:26and when we were little,
-
4:26 - 4:29if my sister got a bigger piece
of the pie than me, -
4:29 - 4:31even by a crumb,
-
4:31 - 4:32I was furious.
-
4:32 - 4:34It wasn't fair.
-
4:34 - 4:37And the childhood me is not alone.
-
4:38 - 4:42We humans hate getting
less than another so much -
4:42 - 4:44that one study found
-
4:44 - 4:47that if humans were given
a hypothetical choice -
4:47 - 4:49between earning 50,000 dollars a year
-
4:49 - 4:51while others earned 25,000 dollars,
-
4:51 - 4:53or earning 100,000 dollars a year
-
4:53 - 4:56while others earned 250,000 dollars,
-
4:56 - 4:58nearly half the subjects
-
4:58 - 5:02prefer to earn 50,000 dollars
a year less money -
5:02 - 5:06to avoid earning relatively less
than someone else. -
5:06 - 5:08That's a pretty big price to pay.
-
5:09 - 5:10What drives people
-
5:10 - 5:13to this sort of apparently
irrational decision-making? -
5:13 - 5:14After all,
-
5:14 - 5:17throwing away your cucumber
because someone else got a grape -
5:17 - 5:20only makes sense
if it makes things more fair. -
5:21 - 5:25Otherwise, Winter has a grape,
and you have nothing. -
5:25 - 5:27Of course humans are not capuchin monkeys.
-
5:27 - 5:29But on the surface,
-
5:29 - 5:31sacrificing 50,000 dollars
-
5:31 - 5:33because somebody else
is going to earn more money than you -
5:33 - 5:37makes no more sense
than throwing away that cucumber. -
5:37 - 5:39Except maybe it does.
-
5:39 - 5:41Some economists think
-
5:41 - 5:44that the sense of fairness in humans
is tied to cooperation. -
5:45 - 5:47In other words, we need
that sense of fairness -
5:47 - 5:49when we're working with somebody else
-
5:49 - 5:52to know when we're getting
the short end of the stick. -
5:52 - 5:53Think about it this way.
-
5:53 - 5:56Let's say you have a colleague at work
who's having a hard time -
5:56 - 5:57and needs a little extra help.
-
5:57 - 5:59You're probably more
than happy to help out, -
5:59 - 6:03especially if she does
the same for you when you need it. -
6:03 - 6:05In other words, if things even out.
-
6:05 - 6:06But now,
-
6:06 - 6:09let's say that colleague
is always slacking off -
6:09 - 6:10and dumping extra work on you.
-
6:10 - 6:13That's infuriating.
-
6:13 - 6:14Or worse,
-
6:14 - 6:17what if you're doing all the work,
and she's getting paid more. -
6:17 - 6:20You're outraged, right?
-
6:20 - 6:23As well you should be.
-
6:23 - 6:26That righteous fury
is your sense of fairness -
6:26 - 6:29telling you that, well, it's not fair.
-
6:29 - 6:33You need to get your fair share
from the people you're working with, -
6:33 - 6:35or it's exploitation, not cooperation.
-
6:36 - 6:40You may not be able to leave every job
where you're treated unfairly, -
6:40 - 6:41but in a perfect world,
-
6:41 - 6:43one without racism and sexism
-
6:43 - 6:46and the frictions associated
with finding a new job, -
6:46 - 6:48it's your sense of fairness
that would let you know -
6:48 - 6:50when it was time to move on.
-
6:50 - 6:52And if you couldn't?
-
6:52 - 6:57Well, that smoldering frustration
might make you throw your cucumbers too. -
6:57 - 6:59And humans are not alone in this.
-
6:59 - 7:03In the previous study,
there was nothing Lance could do about it, -
7:03 - 7:05but what if there had been?
-
7:05 - 7:06It turns out
-
7:06 - 7:10that capuchins simply refuse
to cooperate with other capuchins -
7:10 - 7:13who don't give them their share
after they worked together. -
7:13 - 7:15And refusing to work together
with another monkey -
7:15 - 7:19is a pretty straightforward way
of leveling the playing field. -
7:19 - 7:22Apparently, no monkey
getting anything at all -
7:22 - 7:24is better than another
monkey getting more. -
7:24 - 7:27But much like you and your coworker,
-
7:27 - 7:30they're perfectly happy
with a little short-term inequality -
7:30 - 7:33as long as everything evens out
over the long run. -
7:34 - 7:37This economic connection
between fairness and cooperation -
7:37 - 7:39makes sense to me
as an evolutionary biologist. -
7:39 - 7:41After all,
-
7:41 - 7:43your ancestors didn't get
to pass on their genes -
7:43 - 7:46because they did well
in some absolute sense, -
7:46 - 7:49but because they did better than others.
-
7:49 - 7:51We don't call it survival of the fit,
-
7:51 - 7:53we call it survival of the fittest.
-
7:53 - 7:55As in more fit than others.
-
7:55 - 7:57It's all relative.
-
7:58 - 7:59OK.
-
7:59 - 8:02So my capuchins don't like it
when they get less than another. -
8:02 - 8:05And they're perfectly happy
to sacrifice their cucumbers -
8:05 - 8:06to level the playing field.
-
8:06 - 8:07That's great.
-
8:07 - 8:10But what we would call
a sense of fairness in humans -
8:10 - 8:15also means that we care
when we get more than someone else. -
8:15 - 8:17What about my monkeys?
-
8:17 - 8:18It turns out
-
8:18 - 8:22that primates do notice
when they get more than others, -
8:22 - 8:24or at least some of them do.
-
8:24 - 8:26My capuchins do not.
-
8:26 - 8:28But in one of my studies,
-
8:28 - 8:31my chimpanzees would
sometimes refuse a grape -
8:32 - 8:35if another chimpanzee
in their group got a cucumber, -
8:35 - 8:40which is pretty impressive,
given how much my chimpanzees like grapes. -
8:40 - 8:45However, they were still more upset
when they got less than another chimp -
8:45 - 8:47as compared to when they got more.
-
8:47 - 8:50You may not think it's fair
when you have more than your neighbor, -
8:50 - 8:54but you really don't think it's fair
when your neighbor has more than you. -
8:54 - 8:56Here's an important question, though.
-
8:56 - 8:59Why do we care
about inequality or unfairness -
8:59 - 9:02when we are the ones
who are unfairly benefiting? -
9:02 - 9:04If evolution is about
survival of the fittest, -
9:04 - 9:08wouldn't it make sense to grab
any advantage you can get? -
9:09 - 9:10Here's the thing though.
-
9:10 - 9:13I do better if I get more than you, sure.
-
9:13 - 9:16But best of all is if you and I
can work together -
9:16 - 9:20and get more than either one of us
could have gotten on our own. -
9:20 - 9:23But why would you work with me
if you don't think I'm going to play fair? -
9:23 - 9:27But if you think I'm going to notice
when I've got more than you -
9:27 - 9:28and do something about it,
-
9:28 - 9:30then you will work with me.
-
9:31 - 9:35Evolution has selected us
to accept the occasional short-term loss -
9:35 - 9:40in order to maintain these all-important
long-term relationships. -
9:40 - 9:42This is true in chimpanzees,
-
9:42 - 9:45but it is even more important in humans.
-
9:45 - 9:48Humans are incredibly interconnected
and interdependent, -
9:48 - 9:51and we have the advanced
cognitive abilities -
9:51 - 9:54to be able to plan far into the future.
-
9:54 - 9:56And to recognize the importance
-
9:56 - 9:59of maintaining these
cooperative partnerships. -
9:59 - 10:01Indeed, if anything,
-
10:01 - 10:03I think we are likely underplaying
-
10:03 - 10:06how important the sense
of fairness is for people. -
10:07 - 10:11One of the biggest differences
between humans and capuchin monkeys -
10:11 - 10:15is the sheer magnitude and ubiquity
of cooperation in humans. -
10:15 - 10:16In other words,
-
10:16 - 10:19we're a lot more cooperative
than capuchin monkeys are. -
10:19 - 10:22Legal and economic systems
literally only exist -
10:22 - 10:25if we all agree to participate in them.
-
10:25 - 10:28And if people feel left out
of the rewards and benefits -
10:28 - 10:29of those systems,
-
10:29 - 10:30then they stop participating,
-
10:30 - 10:32and the whole system falls apart.
-
10:33 - 10:35Many of the protests
and uprisings we're seeing, -
10:35 - 10:37both in the US and around the globe,
-
10:38 - 10:40are explicitly framed
in terms of fairness, -
10:40 - 10:42which is not surprising to me.
-
10:42 - 10:46Whether it's about disproportionate
access to resources, -
10:46 - 10:49or that some groups are being
disproportionately impacted -
10:49 - 10:52by the legal system
or the effects of a virus, -
10:52 - 10:55these protests are the logical outcome
-
10:55 - 10:59of our long evolutionary tendency
to reject unfairness -
10:59 - 11:02combined with our long history
of social stratification. -
11:02 - 11:04And the systemic inequalities
-
11:04 - 11:07that have resulted
from that stratification. -
11:07 - 11:11Layer on top of this the fact
that by many measures -
11:11 - 11:14economic inequality is skyrocketing.
-
11:14 - 11:18Chris Boehm wrote a book
called "Hierarchy in the Forest," -
11:18 - 11:22in which he argued
that humans have reverse hierarchies -
11:22 - 11:24in which those at the bottom band together
-
11:24 - 11:27to keep those at the top
from taking advantage of them. -
11:28 - 11:32Perhaps these protests
are simply the latest manifestation -
11:32 - 11:35of humans' tendency
to rebalance the hierarchy. -
11:35 - 11:38Perhaps the biggest difference
between us and capuchin monkeys -
11:38 - 11:41is that we can recognize this problem
-
11:41 - 11:43and actively work
to do something about it. -
11:43 - 11:47Of course we recognize
when we're disadvantaged. -
11:47 - 11:50But we can and we must also recognize
-
11:50 - 11:53when we're advantaged
at the expense of someone else, -
11:53 - 11:55and recognize fairness
-
11:55 - 11:58as the balance between
these two inequalities, -
11:58 - 12:02because our society
literally depends upon it. -
12:02 - 12:05Indeed, my research shows
-
12:05 - 12:09that not all primate species
care about inequality. -
12:09 - 12:12It's only those that rely on cooperation,
-
12:12 - 12:15which most definitely includes humans.
-
12:15 - 12:17We evolved to care about fairness
-
12:17 - 12:21because we rely on each other
for our cooperative society. -
12:21 - 12:23And the more unfair the world gets,
-
12:23 - 12:25and the less we care about each other,
-
12:25 - 12:27the more peril we will face.
-
12:27 - 12:30Our issues are more complex
than grapes and cucumbers, -
12:30 - 12:33but as the capuchins have taught us,
-
12:33 - 12:36we will all do better
when we all play fair. -
12:36 - 12:37Thank you.
- Title:
- Why monkeys (and humans) are wired for fairness
- Speaker:
- Sarah Brosnan
- Description:
-
Fairness matters ... to both people and primates. Sharing priceless footage of capuchin monkeys responding to perceived injustice, primatologist Sarah Brosnan explores why humans and monkeys evolved to care about equality -- and emphasizes the connection between a healthy, cooperative society and everyone getting their fair share.
- Video Language:
- English
- Team:
closed TED
- Project:
- TEDTalks
- Duration:
- 12:51
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Ivana Korom edited English subtitles for Why monkeys (and humans) are wired for fairness |