CARL ROGERS AND GLORIA COUNSELLING PT 2

This is PART 2 OF a tape of a Counselling Session between Carl Rogers and Gloria. Carl Rogers uses Person Centred approach. Humanistic style of counselling. This is the SECOND part of about 5/6 videos. To view the OTHER PARTS, just click on esherborne3, or see if they are listed on the right hand side of the screen. Enjoy..........

if i have any success in creating the kind of conditions that I described initially

then we may be able to see some of these changes in this client

even though I know in advance that our contact is going to be very brief

(client walks in)

good morning- I'm Dr. Rogers you must be Gloria

Yes I am. You can sit right in this chair.

Now, we have half an hour

together and I really don't know what we'll be able to make of it

but I hope we can make something of it.

I'd be glad to know whatever concerns you

Well right now I'm nervous, but

I feel more comfortable the way you're talking in a low voice, I don't feel like you'll be so harsh on me.

But, ah

I hear the tremor in your voice

Well, the main thing I want to talk to you about is ah, I'm just newly divorced

and uh, I had gone in therapy before and I felt comfortable when I left

and all of a sudden now and the biggest change is adjusting to my single life

and uh, one of the thing that worries me most is especially men and having men to the house and how it affects the children and ah,

The biggest thing that keeps coming to my mind that I want to tell you about is I have a daughter who is 9, who at one time I felt had a lot of

emotional problems and I wish I could stop shaking

Laughs quietly and warmly

I feel very self-conscious of things affecting her. I don't want her to become upset...

I don't want to shock her. I want her so bad to accept me.

And we're real open with each other, especially about sex.

And the other day she saw a girl who was single but pregnant and she asked me

all about can girls get pregnant if they're single

and the conversation was fine and I wasn't un-at ease at all with her until

she asked me if I'd ever made love to a man since I left her daddy

And I lied to her

And ever since that it keeps coming back to my mind because I feel so guilty lying to her

I never lie and I want her to trust me.

Mm Hmm

And I almost want an answer from you.

I want you to tell me if that will affect her wrong if I told her the truth or what.

And it's this concern about her and the fact that you feel that this open relationship that has

existed between now you kind of feel is

Gloria (interrupts Rogers): Yes I feel like I have to be on guard about things

because I remember when I was a little girl when I first found out that my mommy and daddy made love

I thought it was dirty and terrible

and wrong and I didn't like her anymore for a while.

And I don't want to lie to Pammy either.

Well I sure wish I could give you an answer as to what you should tell her.

I was afraid you were going to say that

Mm hmm, because what you really want is an answer

I want to especially know if it would affect her if I was completely open and honest with her

or if it would affect her because I lied. I feel like it's bound to make a strain because I lied to her.

Mmm hmm. You kind of feel like she'll suspect that or she'll know something is not quite right.

I feel that she will distrust me.

And also I feel like what about when she is a little older and finds herself in touchy situations.

She probably wouldn't want to admit it to me because she would think I'm so good and so sweet

And yet I'm afraid she could think I'm really a devil and I want so bad for her to accept me.

And I don't really know how much her mind kind take.

And really both alternatives concern you. She might think that you're too good or

better than you really are or she might think that you are worse than you really are.

Not worse than I really am. I don't know if she can accept me how I really am.

I think I paint a picture that I'm all sweet and motherly.

And I'm a little ashamed of my shady side.

Mm hm, Mm hmm, I see.

That really, cuts a little deeper. If she really knew you, would she, could she accept you.

This is what I don't know, yes, I don't want her to turn away from me.

And I don't even know how I feel about it, because there are times when I feel so guilty

like when I have a man over, I even try to make a special set up so that if I were ever alone

with him she would never catch me and that sort of thing.

Because I'm real worried about it, and yet I know that I still have these desires.

So it is not only her problem or the relationship with her, but it is in you as well

It is my guilt, yes.

I feel guilty.

What can I accept myself as doing and you realize that [unintelligible] that you're not caught or something

you realize you are acting from guilt. Is that it?

Yes

I would like to feel comfortable with whatever I do. If I choose not to tell Pammy the truth to

feel comfortable that she can't handle it and I don't.

I want to be honest and yet I feel that there are some areas that I don't even accept!

Mmm hmm, and if you can't accept them in yourself how could you possibly be comfortable in telling that to her.

Gloria: Right

And yet as you say, you do have these desires and you do have these feelings, but you don't feel good about them

Right

Silence

And I have a feeling you're just going to let me sit her and stew in it

And I just want more ... ah... I want you to help me get rid of my guilt feeling

If I can get rid of my guilt feeling about lying or going to bed with a single man... any of that just so I can feel more comfortable.

Mm hmm

And I guess I'd like to say no, I don't want to let you just stew in your feelings, but on the other hand I also feel

That this is the kind of the very private thing that I couldn't possibly answer for you, but I sure as anything will help you work towards your own answer

I don't know if that makes any sense to you but I mean it

Oh, I appreciate you saying that you sound like you mean it.

But I don't know where to go.

I don't begin to know where to go.

I thought that I pretty well worked over most of my guilt.

And now that this is coming up, I'm disappointed in myself.

I really am.

I want-- I like it when I feel-- no matter what I do,

Even if it's against my own morals or my upbringing

That I can still feel good about me.

And now I don't like

there's a girl at work who sort of mothers me.

And I think she thinks I'm all sweet and I sure don't want to show my more angry devilish side with her.

I want to be sweet, and it's so hard for me

this all seems so new again.

And it's so disappointing.

Yeah I get the disappointment,

a lot of these things you thought you worked through and now the guilt and the feelings that only a part of you is acceptable to anybody else.

Yes.

That keeps coming out.

Silence

I guess I did catch the real

deep puzzlement that you feel is to what the hell shall I do? What can I do?

Yes and you know what I can find doctor is that everything that I start to do

or impulse, that seems natural to tell Pammy or to go out on a date or something

I'm comfortable until I think I must have affected as a child

and the minute that comes up I'm all hay wire

like I want to be a good mother so bad, and I feel like I am a good mother

but then there's those little exceptions.

Like my guilt's with working,

I want to work and it's so fun having extra money and I like to work nights

the minute I think I'm not being real good to the children,

or giving them enough time then I start feeling guilty again.

Then that's when-- what do they call it-- a double bind

that's just what it feels like.

I want to do this and it feels right but after all I'm not being a good mother and I want to be both.

I'm becoming more and more aware of the perfectionist I am,

that's what it seems I can want to be so perfect.

Or I want to become perfect in my standards or not have that need anymore.

Or I guess I hear it a little differently that what you want to be is to seem perfect,

but it means a great matter of importance to be a good mother and you want to seem to be a good mother

even if some of your actual feelings differ from them, does that catching?

Yeah I don't feel like I'm saying that,

that isn't what I feel really.

I want to approve of me always, but my actions won't let me.

I want to approve of me.

I realize that-- I like to understand that.

It seems like your actions are outside of you,

you want to approve of you,

but what you do somehow won't let you approve of yourself.

Right.

Like I feel like I can approve of myself regarding

for example, my sex life, this is the big thing.

If I really fell in love with a man, and I respected him and i adored him

I don't think I'd feel so guilty, going to bed with him

and I don't think I'd have to make any excuses to the children because they could see my natural caring for him.

But when I have the physical desire and I'll say oh well why not,

and I want to anyway, then I feel guilty afterwards I hate facing the kids,

I don't like looking at myself and I rarely enjoy it.

And this is what I mean, if the circumstances were different I don't think I'd feel so guilty

because I'd feel right about it.

Yeah I guess I hear you saying,

if what I was doing when I went to bed with a man was really genuine and full of love,

and respect I wouldn't feel guilty in relation to Pam,

I really would be comfortable about the situation.

That's how I feel. Yes.

And I know that sounds like I want a perfect situation, but that is how I feel.

And in the mean time I can't stop these desires,

I've tried that also, I've tried [unintelligible]. I don't like myself when I do that.

So I don't do it anymore.

But then I resent the children,

I think why should they stop me from doing what I want and it's really not that bad.

Then I guess I heard you saying too, that it's only the children.