0:00:00.853,0:00:07.661 if i have any success in creating the kind of conditions that I described initially 0:00:07.661,0:00:13.437 then we may be able to see some of these changes in this client 0:00:13.437,0:00:17.371 even though I know in advance that our contact is going to be very brief 0:00:20.471,0:00:23.332 (client walks in) 0:00:23.332,0:00:26.335 good morning- I'm Dr. Rogers you must be Gloria 0:00:26.335,0:00:28.252 Yes I am. You can sit right in this chair. 0:00:31.742,0:00:34.372 Now, we have half an hour 0:00:34.372,0:00:38.900 together and I really don't know what we'll be able to make of it 0:00:38.900,0:00:41.521 but I hope we can make something of it. 0:00:41.521,0:00:46.018 I'd be glad to know whatever concerns you 0:00:47.488,0:00:50.091 Well right now I'm nervous, but 0:00:50.091,0:00:54.460 I feel more comfortable the way you're talking in a low voice, I don't feel like you'll be so harsh on me. 0:00:55.482,0:00:56.563 But, ah 0:00:57.253,0:00:58.591 I hear the tremor in your voice 0:01:01.581,0:01:08.122 Well, the main thing I want to talk to you about is ah, I'm just newly divorced 0:01:08.772,0:01:13.701 and uh, I had gone in therapy before and I felt comfortable when I left 0:01:13.701,0:01:18.300 and all of a sudden now and the biggest change is adjusting to my single life 0:01:19.380,0:01:26.403 and uh, one of the thing that worries me most is especially men and having men to the house and how it affects the children and ah, 0:01:28.173,0:01:35.502 The biggest thing that keeps coming to my mind that I want to tell you about is I have a daughter who is 9, who at one time I felt had a lot of 0:01:35.502,0:01:39.351 emotional problems and I wish I could stop shaking 0:01:39.351,0:01:41.662 Laughs quietly and warmly 0:01:41.662,0:01:44.952 I feel very self-conscious of things affecting her. I don't want her to become upset... 0:01:44.952,0:01:48.338 I don't want to shock her. I want her so bad to accept me. 0:01:48.338,0:01:51.661 And we're real open with each other, especially about sex. 0:01:51.661,0:01:56.299 And the other day she saw a girl who was single but pregnant and she asked me 0:01:56.299,0:01:58.943 all about can girls get pregnant if they're single 0:01:58.943,0:02:02.822 and the conversation was fine and I wasn't un-at ease at all with her until 0:02:02.822,0:02:06.743 she asked me if I'd ever made love to a man since I left her daddy 0:02:06.743,0:02:07.654 And I lied to her 0:02:08.434,0:02:11.517 And ever since that it keeps coming back to my mind because I feel so guilty lying to her 0:02:11.517,0:02:13.089 I never lie and I want her to trust me. 0:02:13.089,0:02:14.150 Mm Hmm 0:02:14.150,0:02:16.213 And I almost want an answer from you. 0:02:16.213,0:02:19.843 I want you to tell me if that will affect her wrong if I told her the truth or what. 0:02:20.703,0:02:26.175 And it's this concern about her and the fact that you feel that this open relationship that has 0:02:26.175,0:02:28.152 existed between now you kind of feel is 0:02:28.152,0:02:30.770 Gloria (interrupts Rogers): Yes I feel like I have to be on guard about things 0:02:30.770,0:02:35.064 because I remember when I was a little girl when I first found out that my mommy and daddy made love 0:02:35.064,0:02:36.190 I thought it was dirty and terrible 0:02:36.190,0:02:38.990 and wrong and I didn't like her anymore for a while. 0:02:38.990,0:02:42.540 And I don't want to lie to Pammy either. 0:02:42.540,0:02:45.981 Well I sure wish I could give you an answer as to what you should tell her. 0:02:47.601,0:02:49.033 I was afraid you were going to say that 0:02:49.033,0:02:52.102 Mm hmm, because what you really want is an answer 0:02:52.102,0:02:57.103 I want to especially know if it would affect her if I was completely open and honest with her 0:02:57.103,0:03:01.113 or if it would affect her because I lied. I feel like it's bound to make a strain because I lied to her. 0:03:01.113,0:03:06.861 Mmm hmm. You kind of feel like she'll suspect that or she'll know something is not quite right. 0:03:06.861,0:03:08.209 I feel that she will distrust me. 0:03:08.209,0:03:13.875 And also I feel like what about when she is a little older and finds herself in touchy situations. 0:03:13.875,0:03:16.763 She probably wouldn't want to admit it to me because she would think I'm so good and so sweet 0:03:16.763,0:03:22.744 And yet I'm afraid she could think I'm really a devil and I want so bad for her to accept me. 0:03:22.744,0:03:24.601 And I don't really know how much her mind kind take. 0:03:24.601,0:03:30.540 And really both alternatives concern you. She might think that you're too good or 0:03:30.540,0:03:34.780 better than you really are or she might think that you are worse than you really are. 0:03:34.780,0:03:38.023 Not worse than I really am. I don't know if she can accept me how I really am. 0:03:38.023,0:03:41.315 I think I paint a picture that I'm all sweet and motherly. 0:03:41.315,0:03:44.141 And I'm a little ashamed of my shady side. 0:03:44.141,0:03:46.863 Mm hm, Mm hmm, I see. 0:03:48.913,0:03:55.380 That really, cuts a little deeper. If she really knew you, would she, could she accept you. 0:03:56.020,0:03:59.572 This is what I don't know, yes, I don't want her to turn away from me. 0:04:02.412,0:04:06.266 And I don't even know how I feel about it, because there are times when I feel so guilty 0:04:06.266,0:04:11.062 like when I have a man over, I even try to make a special set up so that if I were ever alone 0:04:11.062,0:04:13.442 with him she would never catch me and that sort of thing. 0:04:13.442,0:04:17.741 Because I'm real worried about it, and yet I know that I still have these desires. 0:04:19.371,0:04:25.769 So it is not only her problem or the relationship with her, but it is in you as well 0:04:25.769,0:04:27.622 It is my guilt, yes. 0:04:27.622,0:04:28.742 I feel guilty. 0:04:28.742,0:04:39.827 What can I accept myself as doing and you realize that [unintelligible] that you're not caught or something 0:04:39.827,0:04:42.782 you realize you are acting from guilt. Is that it? 0:04:42.782,0:04:43.667 Yes 0:04:45.177,0:04:50.539 I would like to feel comfortable with whatever I do. If I choose not to tell Pammy the truth to 0:04:50.539,0:04:52.502 feel comfortable that she can't handle it and I don't. 0:04:52.502,0:04:56.944 I want to be honest and yet I feel that there are some areas that I don't even accept! 0:04:56.944,0:05:03.032 Mmm hmm, and if you can't accept them in yourself how could you possibly be comfortable in telling that to her. 0:05:03.032,0:05:03.622 Gloria: Right 0:05:05.492,0:05:12.684 And yet as you say, you do have these desires and you do have these feelings, but you don't feel good about them 0:05:12.684,0:05:12.973 Right 0:05:12.973,0:05:17.252 Silence 0:05:17.252,0:05:20.164 And I have a feeling you're just going to let me sit her and stew in it 0:05:20.164,0:05:27.301 And I just want more ... ah... I want you to help me get rid of my guilt feeling 0:05:27.301,0:05:33.142 If I can get rid of my guilt feeling about lying or going to bed with a single man... any of that just so I can feel more comfortable. 0:05:33.142,0:05:34.181 Mm hmm 0:05:34.181,0:05:40.461 And I guess I'd like to say no, I don't want to let you just stew in your feelings, but on the other hand I also feel 0:05:40.461,0:05:49.770 That this is the kind of the very private thing that I couldn't possibly answer for you, but I sure as anything will help you work towards your own answer 0:05:52.240,0:05:54.740 I don't know if that makes any sense to you but I mean it 0:05:56.210,0:05:58.740 Oh, I appreciate you saying that you sound like you mean it. 0:06:00.677,0:06:02.037 But I don't know where to go. 0:06:02.037,0:06:03.454 I don't begin to know where to go. 0:06:03.458,0:06:05.898 I thought that I pretty well worked over most of my guilt. 0:06:05.961,0:06:08.929 And now that this is coming up, I'm disappointed in myself. 0:06:09.015,0:06:10.174 I really am. 0:06:10.880,0:06:13.076 I want-- I like it when I feel-- no matter what I do, 0:06:13.076,0:06:16.755 Even if it's against my own morals or my upbringing 0:06:16.898,0:06:18.534 That I can still feel good about me. 0:06:19.249,0:06:20.093 And now I don't like 0:06:20.719,0:06:22.885 there's a girl at work who sort of mothers me. 0:06:23.613,0:06:29.632 And I think she thinks I'm all sweet and I sure don't want to show my more angry devilish side with her. 0:06:29.632,0:06:31.258 I want to be sweet, and it's so hard for me 0:06:31.258,0:06:33.055 this all seems so new again. 0:06:33.055,0:06:34.246 And it's so disappointing. 0:06:35.120,0:06:36.380 Yeah I get the disappointment, 0:06:36.380,0:06:44.287 a lot of these things you thought you worked through and now the guilt and the feelings that only a part of you is acceptable to anybody else. 0:06:44.287,0:06:44.850 Yes. 0:06:44.850,0:06:46.460 That keeps coming out. 0:06:46.460,0:06:53.700 Silence 0:06:53.700,0:06:55.295 I guess I did catch the real 0:06:56.535,0:07:01.955 deep puzzlement that you feel is to what the hell shall I do? What can I do? 0:07:01.955,0:07:06.723 Yes and you know what I can find doctor is that everything that I start to do 0:07:06.723,0:07:11.019 or impulse, that seems natural to tell Pammy or to go out on a date or something 0:07:11.929,0:07:15.413 I'm comfortable until I think I must have affected as a child 0:07:15.413,0:07:17.927 and the minute that comes up I'm all hay wire 0:07:18.367,0:07:22.570 like I want to be a good mother so bad, and I feel like I am a good mother 0:07:22.570,0:07:24.156 but then there's those little exceptions. 0:07:24.718,0:07:26.414 Like my guilt's with working, 0:07:26.414,0:07:29.173 I want to work and it's so fun having extra money and I like to work nights 0:07:29.173,0:07:31.566 the minute I think I'm not being real good to the children, 0:07:31.566,0:07:33.955 or giving them enough time then I start feeling guilty again. 0:07:34.487,0:07:37.279 Then that's when-- what do they call it-- a double bind 0:07:37.300,0:07:38.309 that's just what it feels like. 0:07:38.600,0:07:42.202 I want to do this and it feels right but after all I'm not being a good mother and I want to be both. 0:07:42.842,0:07:45.899 I'm becoming more and more aware of the perfectionist I am, 0:07:45.899,0:07:47.546 that's what it seems I can want to be so perfect. 0:07:48.078,0:07:51.712 Or I want to become perfect in my standards or not have that need anymore. 0:07:52.628,0:07:57.827 Or I guess I hear it a little differently that what you want to be is to seem perfect, 0:07:58.437,0:08:06.962 but it means a great matter of importance to be a good mother and you want to seem to be a good mother 0:08:06.962,0:08:11.759 even if some of your actual feelings differ from them, does that catching? 0:08:11.759,0:08:13.030 Yeah I don't feel like I'm saying that, 0:08:13.030,0:08:14.677 that isn't what I feel really. 0:08:14.677,0:08:19.148 I want to approve of me always, but my actions won't let me. 0:08:19.148,0:08:20.779 I want to approve of me. 0:08:24.607,0:08:27.748 I realize that-- I like to understand that. 0:08:29.528,0:08:31.739 It seems like your actions are outside of you, 0:08:32.041,0:08:33.706 you want to approve of you, 0:08:34.906,0:08:38.422 but what you do somehow won't let you approve of yourself. 0:08:38.422,0:08:38.890 Right. 0:08:42.247,0:08:44.746 Like I feel like I can approve of myself regarding 0:08:44.746,0:08:48.431 for example, my sex life, this is the big thing. 0:08:48.431,0:08:51.962 If I really fell in love with a man, and I respected him and i adored him 0:08:51.962,0:08:54.918 I don't think I'd feel so guilty, going to bed with him 0:08:54.918,0:08:59.210 and I don't think I'd have to make any excuses to the children because they could see my natural caring for him. 0:08:59.210,0:09:02.959 But when I have the physical desire and I'll say oh well why not, 0:09:02.959,0:09:07.439 and I want to anyway, then I feel guilty afterwards I hate facing the kids, 0:09:07.439,0:09:10.041 I don't like looking at myself and I rarely enjoy it. 0:09:10.041,0:09:14.416 And this is what I mean, if the circumstances were different I don't think I'd feel so guilty 0:09:14.416,0:09:15.692 because I'd feel right about it. 0:09:16.498,0:09:18.322 Yeah I guess I hear you saying, 0:09:18.322,0:09:22.966 if what I was doing when I went to bed with a man was really genuine and full of love, 0:09:22.966,0:09:26.799 and respect I wouldn't feel guilty in relation to Pam, 0:09:26.799,0:09:29.818 I really would be comfortable about the situation. 0:09:29.818,0:09:30.718 That's how I feel. Yes. 0:09:31.089,0:09:34.539 And I know that sounds like I want a perfect situation, but that is how I feel. 0:09:35.768,0:09:37.839 And in the mean time I can't stop these desires, 0:09:37.839,0:09:41.890 I've tried that also, I've tried [unintelligible]. I don't like myself when I do that. 0:09:41.890,0:09:43.485 So I don't do it anymore. 0:09:44.112,0:09:45.277 But then I resent the children, 0:09:45.277,0:09:48.265 I think why should they stop me from doing what I want and it's really not that bad. 0:09:53.284,0:09:57.031 Then I guess I heard you saying too, that it's only the children.