1
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if i have any success in creating the kind of conditions that I described initially

2
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then we may be able to see some of these changes in this client

3
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even though I know in advance that our contact is going to be very brief

4
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(client walks in)

5
00:00:23,332 --> 00:00:26,335
good morning- I'm Dr. Rogers you must be Gloria

6
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Yes I am. You can sit right in this chair.

7
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Now, we have half an hour

8
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together and I really don't know what we'll be able to make of it

9
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but I hope we can make something of it.

10
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I'd be glad to know whatever concerns you

11
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Well right now I'm nervous, but

12
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I feel more comfortable the way you're talking in a low voice, I don't feel like you'll be so harsh on me.

13
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But, ah

14
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I hear the tremor in your voice

15
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Well, the main thing I want to talk to you about is ah, I'm just newly divorced

16
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and uh, I had gone in therapy before and I felt comfortable when I left

17
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and all of a sudden now and the biggest change is adjusting to my single life

18
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and uh, one of the thing that worries me most is especially men and having men to the house and how it affects the children and ah,

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The biggest thing that keeps coming to my mind that I want to tell you about is I have a daughter who is 9, who at one time I felt had a lot of

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emotional problems and I wish I could stop shaking

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Laughs quietly and warmly

22
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I feel very self-conscious of things affecting her. I don't want her to become upset...

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I don't want to shock her. I want her so bad to accept me.

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And we're real open with each other, especially about sex.

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And the other day she saw a girl who was single but pregnant and she asked me

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all about can girls get pregnant if they're single

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and the conversation was fine and I wasn't un-at ease at all with her until

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she asked me if I'd ever made love to a man since I left her daddy

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And I lied to her

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And ever since that it keeps coming back to my mind because I feel so guilty lying to her

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I never lie and I want her to trust me.

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Mm Hmm

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And I almost want an answer from you.

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I want you to tell me if that will affect her wrong if I told her the truth or what.

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And it's this concern about her and the fact that you feel that this open relationship that has

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existed between now you kind of feel is

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Gloria (interrupts Rogers): Yes I feel like I have to be on guard about things

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because I remember when I was a little girl when I first found out that my mommy and daddy made love

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I thought it was dirty and terrible

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and wrong and I didn't like her anymore for a while.

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And I don't want to lie to Pammy either.

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Well I sure wish I could give you an answer as to what you should tell her.

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I was afraid you were going to say that

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Mm hmm, because what you really want is an answer

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I want to especially know if it would affect her if I was completely open and honest with her

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or if it would affect her because I lied. I feel like it's bound to make a strain because I lied to her.

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Mmm hmm. You kind of feel like she'll suspect that or she'll know something is not quite right.

48
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I feel that she will distrust me.

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And also I feel like what about when she is a little older and finds herself in touchy situations.

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She probably wouldn't want to admit it to me because she would think I'm so good and so sweet

51
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And yet I'm afraid she could think I'm really a devil and I want so bad for her to accept me.

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And I don't really know how much her mind kind take.

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And really both alternatives concern you. She might think that you're too good or

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better than you really are or she might think that you are worse than you really are.

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Not worse than I really am. I don't know if she can accept me how I really am.

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I think I paint a picture that I'm all sweet and motherly.

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And I'm a little ashamed of my shady side.

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Mm hm, Mm hmm, I see.

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That really, cuts a little deeper. If she really knew you, would she, could she accept you.

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This is what I don't know, yes, I don't want her to turn away from me.

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And I don't even know how I feel about it, because there are times when I feel so guilty

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like when I have a man over, I even try to make a special set up so that if I were ever alone

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with him she would never catch me and that sort of thing.

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Because I'm real worried about it, and yet I know that I still have these desires.

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So it is not only her problem or the relationship with her, but it is in you as well

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It is my guilt, yes.

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I feel guilty.

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What can I accept myself as doing and you realize that [unintelligible] that you're not caught or something

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you realize you are acting from guilt. Is that it?

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Yes

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I would like to feel comfortable with whatever I do. If I choose not to tell Pammy the truth to

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feel comfortable that she can't handle it and I don't.

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I want to be honest and yet I feel that there are some areas that I don't even accept!

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Mmm hmm, and if you can't accept them in yourself how could you possibly be comfortable in telling that to her.

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Gloria: Right

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And yet as you say, you do have these desires and you do have these feelings, but you don't feel good about them

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Right

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Silence

79
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And I have a feeling you're just going to let me sit her and stew in it

80
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And I just want more ... ah... I want you to help me get rid of my guilt feeling

81
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If I can get rid of my guilt feeling about lying or going to bed with a single man... any of that just so I can feel more comfortable.

82
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Mm hmm

83
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And I guess I'd like to say no, I don't want to let you just stew in your feelings, but on the other hand I also feel

84
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That this is the kind of the very private thing that I couldn't possibly answer for you, but I sure as anything will help you work towards your own answer

85
00:05:52,240 --> 00:05:54,740
I don't know if that makes any sense to you but I mean it

86
00:05:56,210 --> 00:05:58,740
Oh, I appreciate you saying that you sound like you mean it.

87
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But I don't know where to go.

88
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I don't begin to know where to go.

89
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I thought that I pretty well worked over most of my guilt.

90
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And now that this is coming up, I'm disappointed in myself.

91
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I really am.

92
00:06:10,880 --> 00:06:13,076
I want-- I like it when I feel-- no matter what I do,

93
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Even if it's against my own morals or my upbringing

94
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That I can still feel good about me.

95
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And now I don't like

96
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there's a girl at work who sort of mothers me.

97
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And I think she thinks I'm all sweet and I sure don't want to show my more angry devilish side with her.

98
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I want to be sweet, and it's so hard for me

99
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this all seems so new again.

100
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And it's so disappointing.

101
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Yeah I get the disappointment,

102
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a lot of these things you thought you worked through and now the guilt and the feelings that only a part of you is acceptable to anybody else.

103
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Yes.

104
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That keeps coming out.

105
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Silence

106
00:06:53,700 --> 00:06:55,295
I guess I did catch the real

107
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deep puzzlement that you feel is to what the hell shall I do? What can I do?

108
00:07:01,955 --> 00:07:06,723
Yes and you know what I can find doctor is that everything that I start to do

109
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or impulse, that seems natural to tell Pammy or to go out on a date or something

110
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I'm comfortable until I think I must have affected as a child

111
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and the minute that comes up I'm all hay wire

112
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like I want to be a good mother so bad, and I feel like I am a good mother

113
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but then there's those little exceptions.

114
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Like my guilt's with working,

115
00:07:26,414 --> 00:07:29,173
I want to work and it's so fun having extra money and I like to work nights

116
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the minute I think I'm not being real good to the children,

117
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or giving them enough time then I start feeling guilty again.

118
00:07:34,487 --> 00:07:37,279
Then that's when-- what do they call it-- a double bind

119
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that's just what it feels like.

120
00:07:38,600 --> 00:07:42,202
I want to do this and it feels right but after all I'm not being a good mother and I want to be both.

121
00:07:42,842 --> 00:07:45,899
I'm becoming more and more aware of the perfectionist I am,

122
00:07:45,899 --> 00:07:47,546
that's what it seems I can want to be so perfect.

123
00:07:48,078 --> 00:07:51,712
Or I want to become perfect in my standards or not have that need anymore.

124
00:07:52,628 --> 00:07:57,827
Or I guess I hear it a little differently that what you want to be is to seem perfect,

125
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but it means a great matter of importance to be a good mother and you want to seem to be a good mother

126
00:08:06,962 --> 00:08:11,759
even if some of your actual feelings differ from them, does that catching?

127
00:08:11,759 --> 00:08:13,030
Yeah I don't feel like I'm saying that,

128
00:08:13,030 --> 00:08:14,677
that isn't what I feel really.

129
00:08:14,677 --> 00:08:19,148
I want to approve of me always, but my actions won't let me.

130
00:08:19,148 --> 00:08:20,779
I want to approve of me.

131
00:08:24,607 --> 00:08:27,748
I realize that-- I like to understand that.

132
00:08:29,528 --> 00:08:31,739
It seems like your actions are outside of you,

133
00:08:32,041 --> 00:08:33,706
you want to approve of you,

134
00:08:34,906 --> 00:08:38,422
but what you do somehow won't let you approve of yourself.

135
00:08:38,422 --> 00:08:38,890
Right.

136
00:08:42,247 --> 00:08:44,746
Like I feel like I can approve of myself regarding

137
00:08:44,746 --> 00:08:48,431
for example, my sex life, this is the big thing.

138
00:08:48,431 --> 00:08:51,962
If I really fell in love with a man, and I respected him and i adored him

139
00:08:51,962 --> 00:08:54,918
I don't think I'd feel so guilty, going to bed with him

140
00:08:54,918 --> 00:08:59,210
and I don't think I'd have to make any excuses to the children because they could see my natural caring for him.

141
00:08:59,210 --> 00:09:02,959
But when I have the physical desire and I'll say oh well why not,

142
00:09:02,959 --> 00:09:07,439
and I want to anyway, then I feel guilty afterwards I hate facing the kids,

143
00:09:07,439 --> 00:09:10,041
I don't like looking at myself and I rarely enjoy it.

144
00:09:10,041 --> 00:09:14,416
And this is what I mean, if the circumstances were different I don't think I'd feel so guilty

145
00:09:14,416 --> 00:09:15,692
because I'd feel right about it.

146
00:09:16,498 --> 00:09:18,322
Yeah I guess I hear you saying,

147
00:09:18,322 --> 00:09:22,966
if what I was doing when I went to bed with a man was really genuine and full of love,

148
00:09:22,966 --> 00:09:26,799
and respect I wouldn't feel guilty in relation to Pam,

149
00:09:26,799 --> 00:09:29,818
I really would be comfortable about the situation.

150
00:09:29,818 --> 00:09:30,718
That's how I feel. Yes.

151
00:09:31,089 --> 00:09:34,539
And I know that sounds like I want a perfect situation, but that is how I feel.

152
00:09:35,768 --> 00:09:37,839
And in the mean time I can't stop these desires,

153
00:09:37,839 --> 00:09:41,890
I've tried that also, I've tried [unintelligible]. I don't like myself when I do that.

154
00:09:41,890 --> 00:09:43,485
So I don't do it anymore.

155
00:09:44,112 --> 00:09:45,277
But then I resent the children,

156
00:09:45,277 --> 00:09:48,265
I think why should they stop me from doing what I want and it's really not that bad.

157
00:09:53,284 --> 00:09:57,031
Then I guess I heard you saying too, that it's only the children.