Jonathan Meese: In art you have to go too far

Studio visit to the German artist Jonathan Meese, who believes in The Dictatorship of Art, that art should rule the world, and that playing is the most radical thing you can do.

Jonathan Meese (b. 1970) is a German artist who works with paintings, sculptures, installations and performances, which are all about The Dictatorship of Art.

That art rules the world means that everybody does what he or she does with total passion, Meese says. He wants people not to be instrumentalized, he wants "a new wind".

Interview by Christian Lund, Louisiana Museum of Modern Art, March 2011.

Copyright Louisiana Channel, Louisiana Museum of Modern Art.

Recorded in Jonathan Meese's studio in Berlin by Marie Forchhammer

Produced by Martin Kogi and Christian Lund.

Copyright: Louisiana Channel, Louisiana Museum of Modern Art.

Meet more artists at http://channel.louisiana.dk

Louisiana Channel is a non-profit video channel for the Internet launched by the Louisiana Museum of Modern Art in November 2012. Each week Louisiana Channel will publish videos about and with artists in visual art, literature, architcture, design etc.

Read more:
http://channel.louisiana.dk/about

Supported by Nordea-fonden.

[Music]

"10-Punkte-Programm der Diktatur der Kunst"

The goal is clear: The goal is the dictatorship of art.

The goal is that art rules the world.

[howling]

"Gehorcht einfach der Kunst! Gehorcht! Gehorcht!"

Art is the strongest.

Art is number 1, art is the chief, art is the "Bundeskantzler", art is the "Führer",

art is the king, art is the religion,
art is that, art is that, art, art, art, always!

And I hate these art students nowadays,
who only want so small things,

who want a comfortable life,

and I mean, I'm 41 now, ja?, and I behave like a 12 year old

but these people, who are 25, 35 now, they behave like they were never born!

"Happa, happa, happa - Hoah, hoah, hoah"

If everywhere is art, then it would disappear

Ja, and then everything would calm down,
and we would have a new start,

"ein Neustart", we would have a new zero-point into our existence

and something new would come up.

It means, we need something totally new to happen.

And that art rules the world means not
that everybody is painting
or everybody is doing literature.

It means that everybody is doing what he is doing with total passion

and not being instrumentalized, not being used,

not being into a "Sekte" or something,

that everything has a new wind in it,

that we just say: "Stop it now. Stop with this shit that is happening on this world!

Stop! Stop! Stop!
Stop, politicians, resign all, all, please, all!"

Now, today one politician resigned in this country.
Ja? Oh, oh, please all others do it, too!

Chancelor Merkel, please, resign, it's time! Ja?

Please, all kings and queens, sorry to say, resign!

Play it! You can play king.

But it doesn't mean anything any more.

[laughter, howling]

[squeaking]

"Happa, happa machen"

We need "eine versachlichte Führung",
we need a new start for the whole world.

Now it's time.
Also the collapse that is happening all over.

I am not an idiot, I see this.

And I always think: "Wow, now something happens!"

But we should never think that we need
revolutionary people.

We don't need soldiers on the street.

The soldiers come from the stage.

It's a totally other direction.

And Adolf Hitler is a crucial point, because there it was totally clear for everybody in this world:

Humans should never have ideological power!

There the game was ending in fact.

But no, they start it again!

We produce dictators like, uh, like bonbons.

And why?

Why are ther so many small Hitlers in the world?

Why?

Wh.. After this guy, now for me now every politician is a small Hitler, sorry.

And I don't want this.

I'm not interested in this nostalgic idea.

Ja, 1945 Hitler was just taken apart into small "Oblates", small peaces,

and everybody [chop, chop].

"Jeder ist ein eigener Führer, jeder ist sein eigener Gott, jeder ist sein eigener Chef."

Everybody is his own leader, everybody is his own chief, everybody is his own god.

This is not the concept.

"Selbstverwirklichung", self-fulfillment, is not ok.

[purr]

If you would take this picture and put it into a machine,

there would be no feeling of we inside.

We should ask: This golden colour, why it's done like this and what it means?

But maybe we get an answer, maybe not.

But then we come closer to this
or stay in the same distance.

Art is no spiritual.

We don't need spiritual human leaders.

Uh, this is a very concrete totally pragmatic thing:
paint on canvas.

This canvas would have filled itself, even without me.

Ja? It doesn't matter that I did it.

It's not important.

That I did it, is ok.
But it is not important to evaluate art.

Ja? This painting is a game on its own.

We can write, I wrote "Jonathan Meese 2011",
it's not important.

Ja? I'm just a servant.

"Lieber Wolf, du musst in der Kunst nur eins machen!"

And all these things, Saint Juste, Robespierre, Marat, Number 5, Adolf Hitler,

everything is a toy of art.

That's why you can use it.

This is all a game, it has to be a game. Sorry.

To play is the most radical thing you can do in this world.

To really kill somebody is not radical.

Ja, to really hurt somebody, that is so shamefully easy and nothing special

and it has nothng to do with reality, er, with radicalism. That is reality fanatism.

And to really play it through: This is what I have to do till I die.

"Lieber Wolf, du musst nur eins machen in der Kunst!"

"Gehorche einfach!"

"Lieber Wolf!"

The people always on the door outside, they always come in and say to me: Don't play anymore!

You're not allowed to play. This is too far. You go too far.

In art you can never go to far.

In art you have to go too far.

That is the rule.

If you are not willing to go too far, then you should stop

Then you are a cultural "Funktionärs" situation.

[khhhh]

We have to make sure that nothing bad is happenning ideogically in the future.

And that can only do art.

We cannot counter or be against reality by reality.

If we use reality to fight reality, we will end up in reality,

in the bad reality that we fought against.

As an artist you should only want art to rule the world

or you as an artist should go home.

[Music]