Jonathan Meese: In art you have to go too far

Studio visit to the German artist Jonathan Meese, who believes in The Dictatorship of Art, that art should rule the world, and that playing is the most radical thing you can do.

Jonathan Meese (b. 1970) is a German artist who works with paintings, sculptures, installations and performances, which are all about The Dictatorship of Art.

That art rules the world means that everybody does what he or she does with total passion, Meese says. He wants people not to be instrumentalized, he wants "a new wind".

Interview by Christian Lund, Louisiana Museum of Modern Art, March 2011.

Copyright Louisiana Channel, Louisiana Museum of Modern Art.

Recorded in Jonathan Meese's studio in Berlin by Marie Forchhammer

Produced by Martin Kogi and Christian Lund.

Copyright: Louisiana Channel, Louisiana Museum of Modern Art.

Meet more artists at http://channel.louisiana.dk

Louisiana Channel is a non-profit video channel for the Internet launched by the Louisiana Museum of Modern Art in November 2012. Each week Louisiana Channel will publish videos about and with artists in visual art, literature, architcture, design etc.

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Supported by Nordea-fonden.

10_Punkte-Programm der Diktatur der Kunst

The goal is clear: The goal is the dictatorship of art.

The goal is that art rules the world

Ghorcht einfach der Kunst! Gehorcht! Gehorcht!

Art is the strongest.

Art is number 1, art is the chief, Art is the "Bundeskantzler", art is the "Führer,

art is the king, art is the religion, art is that, art, art, art, always

And I hate these art students nowadays, who only want so small things,

who want a comfortable life,

and I mean, I'm 41 now , ja, and I behave like a 12 year old

but these people who are 25, 35 now, they behave like they were never born

Happa Hpppa Happa

If everawhere is art, then it would disappear

Ja, and then everything would calm down, and we would have a new start

"ein Neustart", we would have a new zero-point into our existence.

And something new would come up.

It means, we need something totaly noew to happen.

Andthat art rules the world means not that evrybody is painting or everybody is doing literature

It means that everybody is doing what he is doing with total passion

and not being instrumentalized, not being used,

not being into a "Sekte" or something

that everything has a new wind in it

that we just say: "Stop it now. Stop with this shit that is happening on this world

Stop! Stop! Stop! Stop politicians, resign all, please, all, all"

Now, today one politician resigned in this country. Oh, oh, please all others do it too!

Chancelor Merkel, please, resign. Kings and Queens, sorry to say, resign!

And then play it. Play king.

You can play king. But ot doesn''t mean anything any more.

[laughter, howling]

[squeaking]

Happa, happa

We need eine sachliche Führung, we need a new start.

Now it's time. Also the collapse that is happening all over.

I am not an idiot, I see this.

And I always think: "Wow, now something happens!"

But we should never think that we need revolutionary people.

We don't need soldiers on the street.

The soldiers come from the stage.

It's a toally other direction.

Adolf Hitler was a crucially point, because there it was totally clear for everybody in this world:

Humans should never have ideological power.

There the game was ending in fact.

But no, they start it again.

If we produce dictators like, uh, bonbons.

And why?

Why are ther so many small Hitlers in the world?

Why?

Wh.. After this guy, for me now every politician is a small Hitler, sorry.

And I don't want this.

I'm not interested in this nostalgic idea.

Ja, 1945 Hitler was taken apart into small Oblates, small peaces,

and everyboda [chew, chew].

Jeder ist ein eigener Führer, jeder ist sein eigener Gott, jeder ist sein eigener Chef.

Everybody is his own leader, everybody is hois own chief, everyboida is his own god.

This is not the concept.

Selbstverwirklichung, self-fulfillment, is not ok.

[purr]

If you want, take this picture and put it into a machine.

There would be no feeling fo we inside.

We should ask: This golden colour, why it's done like this and what it means?

But maybe we get an answer, maybe not.

But then we come closer to this or stay in the same distance.

Art is no spiritual.

We don't need spiritual hman leaders.

Uh, this is a well- concrete totally undramatic thing Paint on canvas.

This canvas would have filled itself, even without me.

Ja? It doesn't matter that I did it.

It's not important.

That I did it, is ok. But it is not important to evaluate art.

Ja? This painting is a game on its own.

We can write, I wrote Jonathan Meese 2011, it's not important. Ja, I'm just a servant

lieber moll mach a

And all these things, Saint Juste, Robespierre, Marat, Number 5, Adolf Hitler,

everything is a toy of art.

That's why you can use it.

This is all a game, it has to be a game. Sorry.

To play is the most radical thing you can do in this world.

To really kill somebody is not radical.

Ja, to really hurt somebody, that is so shamefully easy and nothing special

and it has nothngto do with reality, uh, with radicalism. That is reality fanatism.

And to really play it through: This is what I have to do till I die.

Lieber Wolf, du musst nur eins machen in der Kunst!

Gehorche einfach!

Lieber Wolf!

The people always on the door outside, they always come in to me and say: Don't play anymore.

You're not allowed to play! This is too far. You go too far.

In art you can never go to far.

In art you have to go tootfar.

That is the rle.

If you are not willing to go too far, then sou should stop

Then you are a cultural Funktionärs-situation.

[khhhh]

We have to make sure that nothing bad is happenning ideogically in the future.

And that can only do art.

We cannot counter or be against reality by reality.

If we use reality to fightreality, we eill end up in reality

in the bad reality that wefought against

As an artist you should only want art to rule the world

or you as an artist should go home.