The Recipe for a Nourished Brain

Many of us have been told that foods like blueberries, salmon, and leafy greens are “good for the brain.” But what does that really mean? Can eating certain foods make us smarter? More alert? Less stressed? Sanjay talks to nutritional psychiatrist and personal chef, Dr. Uma Naidoo about what foods improve brain function and influence the way we feel. She’ll also share her secret sauce: a few nutritious and delicious ways to eat carbs, fats and sugar.

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[music]

(Speaker)
So, I mean, it's the

old adage you are what you eat.

When I eat, like, sugary
or caffeinated foods

I often find myself, like,
unable to focus.

So, eating healthier foods
has had a significant impact on

how well I can focus, as well as
how quick I can think.

(Host)
That's Angela Guo.

She's a 17-year old senior at
Adlai Stevenson High School

in Lincolnshire, Illinois.

And that adage she just cited,
"You are what you eat,"

that's been around since the 1800's.

People have known for a long time
just how much food affects us.

But it's not just in terms of
long-term health,

but also short-term mood.

(Angela)
Food really helps us maintain

a state clarity. And, so,
eating healthier foods

has had a significant impact

on how well I can focus, as well as
how quick I can think.

(Host)
She may only be in high school,

but Angela has

already made the crucial connection
between what she puts in her mouth

and how quickly that affects her brain.

She even believes that
simple understanding

gave her a real advantage
when she competed

in the National Science Olympiad
tournament earlier this year.

(Announcer)
First place, national champions of the

2023 Science Olympiad National Tournament,

Adlai Stevenson High School of Illinois!
Let's go! [audience cheering]

(Host)
Now, at this tournament earlier this year,

Angela and her teammates went up
against thousands of students

from around the country.

They were competing in
events, highlighting

chemistry and earth science and biology.

But here's the thing:
the entire time on Angela's team

you really didn't see much sugar around.

Instead, there were lots
of healthy snacks.

(Angela)
So, even at school, I'd bring my own lunch

and it's just that aspect of
knowing what goes into your meals

is like really important. It kind of
gives you peace of mind.

(Host)
The team did really well, and now as they

prepare for more tournaments,

Angela, who's now a team captain, says,
"Sure, they do study hard,

but what they eat, how they eat,
that's also top of mind.

AG: When we do travel for Science Olympiad
our coaches always makes sure that

our, like, bus is well stocked with

fruits and water.

SG: So Angela, seems pretty convinced
that food helps her focus

and perform well academically.

Of course, that makes sense
but the question today,

"What is the empirical evidence
to support that and how does it work?

How exactly does food impact the brain?

And how do we really know when our brain
is well nourished?"

Uma Naidoo: Sugar is not good

for our brain

But I also want people to understand
we need sugar for our bodies

and our brain,

so it's where you get the sugar
that's important.

SG: Look, a lot of people worry about
how food influences the way we look,

how much weight we may gain
-- I get that --

or the likelihood we're going to be
high risk for diseases,

like diabetes and hypertension.

But even though it is harder to measure,
food is also deeply connected

to how we feel in the moment
and how well the brain functions.

Even as you listen to this podcast,
your experience, right now,

is likely affected
by what you ate earlier today.

So in this episode, I'm going to find out
what's the best fuel for the brain,

what food we should avoid
and what it really means

to have a well-nourished brain.

I'm Dr. Sanjay Gupta, CNN's
Chief Medical Correspondent

and this is Chasing Life.

You know, I love hearing stories
like Angela's.

They're so personal.

She's someone who's paying attention
to her body and then she's figuring out

what makes her feel good and what it takes
to do the activities she loves.

She's being really intentional
with her nutrition

and that may save her from having
health problems later in life

but, it could help optimize
her function now.

For me, food is an endless source
of fascination.

The way that I think about it is this:

Food is one of the most significant ways
we allow our outside world to influence

and communicate with our inside world,
the world inside of our body and our mind.

That is an awesome task. Food does that.

So, I thought today we would start
with the basics.

We know that all food items have calories
and calories are by definition energy

but, as you just heard, not all calories
are created equal.

Some have more nutrients
and do more to promote

overall health and well-being than others.

And that is especially true
when it comes to the brain.

But the challenge again:
That's hard to measure.

There is no brain scan or blood test
that indicates that a particular food

promotes brain health.

So how do we really know?

How do you really know what works for you?

To find out, I return to someone
whose work I really respect

both in the clinic and in the kitchen,
someone who knows a lot

about this really intricate connection
between food and brain health.

Uma Naidoo: If you want, you know,

your brain to really be optimized,

lean into the foods you like,
but the healthy versions of that.

SG: That's Dr Uma Naidoo;
she's a nutritional psychiatrist.

Such a cool field.
She's at Harvard Medical School.

What she does is that she works
with patients to improve

their mental health with the help
of medication and food.

She's also a professional chef.
She's the author of the books

"This is Your Brain on Food" and
"Calm Your Mind with Food."

That one's going to be released
later this year.

I should tell you, this is actually
Dr Naidoo's second time on the show.

We spoke a few years ago about
the broader concept of food as medicine,

and I was so fascinated by
the conversation, so affected by it,

I asked her to come back and discuss
how food impacts brain health specifically

and brain function.

I have long said that I think food

can be medicine, I also think
just philosophically,

we consciously decide what signals
we're going to give to the inside

of our body through food.

What the discussion has primarily
focused on has been calories and energy,

and are you going overweight or not.

UN: Correct
SG: So what are those foods that are both

good for the brain and can actually
get to the brain?

UN: What I think is good, and I think
what is helpful for people,

especially in the U.S., is that most
people are consuming

the standard American diet

which, as you know, is called sad
for a reason.

So any time that we can add those lipid
grains and those actual whole foods

onto our plate, you know, and think
about it that way and step away

a little bit from those processed
fast foods,

the healthier we are going to become
as a country and I think that that is

because processed, ultra-processed foods
are engineered, as you know,

to trick our brain.

So we eat more, we can't stop ourselves.

SG: Yeah, maybe I'm being audacious here
in doing a podcast about how to achieve

a most optimally nourished brain.

As you correctly point out, we have
a lot of work to do as a country to just

stop doing the bad things, maybe even
before we can, uh, really, really focus

on the good things.

But the idea that food itself can be
medicine and that can be quantified,

maybe even to the point, for someone like
you, prescribed. Are we to the point,

with what we know, data-wise that food
can be thought of prescriptive,

like we think of medicine?

UN: So I can't yet say to you, you need
to eat ten blueberries over this amount

of time to improve your mood.

But what we do know from pretty large
population-based studies that

if you were consuming extra-dark natural
chocolate, that it improved depression

by 70% in over 12,000 participants.
We know and it was in the candy bars

it was extra dark natural chocolate,
which contains serotonin, magnesium,

um, some fiber. So, we're not at a point
where I can say this number

of blueberries in order to improve
your mood,

but we are definitely emerging and
growing in the scientific evidence

to be able to say you can construct
a nutritional psychiatry plate

for your mood.

You can lean into those leafy green
vegetable, 3-5 cups a day. Um, things like

arugula, spinach all contain folate.
A low folate is associated with low mood.

So, we can give people guidance around it
and really have them understanding that

food is moving in that direction.

SG: Now before we hear more food
recommendations, I want to note something

that's, I think, really important here.
the term "brain food."

That gets thrown around a lot. But, true
brain food meaning any food that actually

impacts the function of the brain has to
do something really important.

It's got to get past the blood-brain
barrier.

Now, I don't want to get to wonky or
technical, but I think it's important

for you to understand this point.
Think of the blood-brain barrier as sort

of a body guard for the brain.
This barrier prevents the entry of toxins

and pathogens and other molecules
that could be harmful to the brain.

What it looks like is a system of blood
vessels around the brain and the central

nervous system that sort of keep tight
control over which molecules and which

nutrients are allowed to get in.

UN: We know this, for example
a lot of serotonin that's manufactured

in the gut and some in the brain
but the more peripheral serotonin

doesn't cross over the blood brain
barrier, so why not look at the foods

which are the precursors to the
neurotransmitters, that then

interact with the gut microbes,
I'm fascinated by the gut microbes.

The impact of the gut microbes and
then they are able to cross over

the blood brain barrier and then form
the substances that we need

in the brain. So I'm thinking about
things we need like serotonin

and dopamine.

Let me hit pause here to
explain a couple of things about

the gut. You probably know this,
but the gut contains trillions

of micro organisms. Bacteria,
viruses, fungi. Collectively

they are referred to as the gut
microbiome. Now, these micro organisms

or microbes aren't just hanging out,
they play an important role in

our health and they are constantly
interacting with each other and

the rest of our body. While a few of
those bacteria or pathogens are

potentially harmful, many are helpful.
For example, what they will do is

they will break down food, they will
then interact with our immune system,

they will synthesize vitamins and amino
acids. And then they communicate with

other parts of the body. And that brings
me to the second thing about the gut.

It is sometimes called the second brain,
and I think that is a good title. And

that's because it uses many of the same
chemicals and cells as the brain to do

its job and to communicate.
In fact, there is an extraordinary amount

of cross talk between the gut and the
brain. This makes the gut very

sensitive to emotions. Anger, fear,
anxiety. Those things can cause

problems in the gut, vise versa.
When the gut feels bad, it can

cause anxiety and other emotional
issues. Understanding that might

give new meaning to phrases like,
having "butterflies in your stomach"

when you're nervous, or a quote, unquote
"gut feeling" about a person or

a situation.

This is why Doctor Niudu's work is so
important and intriguing. She says,

"It is possible for food to impact how
well our brain functions and how we

feel mentally." For example, some ultra
processed foods have been linked to

disrupting the gut microbiome in a way
that increases the risk for depression.

In contrast, some whole foods such as
bananas help trigger the production

of important chemicals in the gut
such as the molecule, serotonin.

But again, remember this point.
Much of the serotonin made

in the gut cannot cross the blood
brain barrier and that is why

doctor Nidu says we need to
focus on the precursors to

serotonin, which can then cross
more easily and be assembled

in the brain. Think of it like this,
there are certain foods, for example,

ones that are rich in the amino acid
tryptophan, that when eaten interact

with the gut microbiome. You
with me?

And they become then the precursor
or building blocks for serotonin.

And then these building blocks cross
into the brain, get converted to

serotonin, and exert their influence.
The reason that I'm repeating this

so many times is because it
is so important. What does

this all mean? Eating foods like,
salmon or pineapple, ones that

are loaded with tryptophan, could
help you feel happier and calmer.

That is a better definition of brain
food.

UN: Another fascinating but odd
research that is coming through is

several microbiome companies testing
the microbiome. So, they are looking

more deeply into what's in the
microbiome and what you may need

to eat versus what I might need to eat
because our microbiome is so

sort of unique. Whether you take that
substance as a supplement, or you

take it as a guidance around food, it
can really help us more finely tune

the way that we can be eating.

SG: What level of evidence to you rely
on to make your recommendations

when it comes to food? How do you
collect that data and that evidence?

UN: So, I try to keep current with
whatever the new research is. For

example, there was a fascinating study
done recently and all of these years

I've been encouraging my patients to
eat foods that are rich in vitamin A.

And this particular study show that
actually vitamin A rich foods are not

that helpful for mood or for your
brain health. Another interesting

study.

SG: What are those foods? Not to cut you
off, but what kinds of foods are we

talking about?

UN: So, you know, eggs, milk, fish oils
beef liver, tomatoes, red bell pepper.

Now, does it mean that those foods
are foods I will tell my patients not

to eat? Absolutely not. Uh, like, the
new research about serotonin. It's

more that I would have emphasized
eating vitamin A rich foods along with

that nutritional psychiatry plate.
And I most importantly feel that

what's been my secret sources has
been integrating the actual literature

the research and what I do
clinically with seeing patients and

being able to monitor them you know
and see how they do. Because I think,

please know that I come at this with
great humility. I don't feel that

because whatever I've studied that
you know, that I have the way to make

everyone feel better. But I have
certainly seen my patients improve.

SG: You know, when I was growing up,
um, maybe you heard this as well

when you were a child, but there
were certain foods that were

"brain foods." Fish for example
was sort of considered a brain food.

UN: Nuts, almonds.
SG: Nuts, you know. And my

mom would always, you know,
"If you eat this, you'll be smart."

You know, that was always the

encouragement. But what of it,
though? Are there foods that

can reliably help our brains?
What are they and why?

UN: So, one of the groups I'll start with,
because people are pretty familiar

with this, that the foods rich in
omega-3. So, things like fatty

fish. There's a mnemonic for the fish that
are top of the list, "SMASH". Salmon,

Mackerel, Anchovies, Sardines, and
Herring. Um, because they contain

forms of uh EPAJHA that are actually
helpful um for the brain and will

actually make a difference. And they
have anti Primatene and antioxidant

properties. Then, you know people who
don't consume seafood can rely on the

plant based sources like chia seeds,
flax seeds, almonds. Having a vegan

supplement or an algal oil supplement
made from sea algae is something that

you can do to improve your brain
performance if you feel you're not

getting enough nutrition from food.
So that's one very big group. Another

group of foods that I think people
tend to just think of only as a

supplement, but is actually available
in our everyday foods, are prebiotics

and probiotics.

SG: Ok, I want to pause here again
to offer a crash course in pre and

probiotics. Terms you've probably heard
about. Probiotics are "live bacteria" that

may offer health benefits when
consumed in adequate numbers.

You can find them in things like
fermented foods. Yogurt, kimchee.

You can buy them in pill form. Prebiotics
on the other hand, are food for your

microbiome. These are the organisms
that are living in your gut and prebiotic

foods are usually higher in certain
types of fiber and include items like

fruit and veggies and whole grains.
Now, as Doctor Nidu said, it is hard

to prescribe these foods to an exact
timing or an exact dosage, but at the

time, we have been making a lot of
progress there as well.

UN: So when we think about food groups,
Omega 3, those probiotics and prebiotics,

those fermented foods, all can actually be
helpful in reducing things like anxiety

and depression.

SG: We'll be right back.

SG: And now back to Chasing Life and my
conversation with nutritional psychiatrist

Dr. Uma Naidoo. Now that I have a better
sense of which, and how, certain foods

might impact my mood, what I wanted to
know is how food might affect my

general brain health.

UN: So just, you know, having a dairy and
non-dairy plain yogurt with live active

cultures does help your gut. Probiotics
were actually tested in the study and the

use of probiotics were compared to a
dose of an SSRI, and the probiotics showed

a better effect. So, not to single out
just one study, it has been shown again,

but I think that's compelling information,
that a person who is consuming something

like yogurt, or say a fermented food is
adding these probiotics and live cultures

to their gut, could in fact be helping
the gut microbes, helping the serotonin

formation there. We don't know the exact
mechanisms of everything, but we can tell

by the improvements in symptoms. For
example, if I am assessing someone in my

clinic, I have to go by their report,
which may or may not be 100% accurate

sometimes, but that happens with all of
us, but also to check the improvement of

their mood. Improvement in anxiety. That
is one way to assess how they're doing and

if these foods are making a difference.

SG: So, you're comparing yogurt to an
antidepressant.

UN: That's right.

SG: I mean, that, I know it's almost
comical to reflect on, but I mean look, we

take too many pills, ya know? And these
pills have side-effects, and so the idea

that yogurt could, and I don't want to
overstate this, Dr. Naidoo, so you tell

me. What do they find when they compare
yogurt to an antidepressant in a study?

UN: So, they found that individuals who
consumed yogurt along with, say, a

selective serotonin re-uptake inhibitor
had a better response and improvement in

mood. So, it offered us a guidance in this
area to basically think that, you know, we

can use these inventions around the gut
microbiome, and the use of things like

probiotics. Which, you know, I think most
of my patients would rather reach for

a yogurt than, you know, an
antidepressant.

SG: If I was to describe to my three
teenage girls a well nourished brain,

like, I think we can describe a healthy
body, right? We can say, "You don't have

plaques in your blood vessels, you have
good blood pressure, heart rate.." all

that sort of stuff. How, Dr. Naidoo,
would you describe a well nourished brain?

What do you get in return?

UN: For one thing, you focus, your energy,
your ability to get through your day, not

having that afternoon slump where you're
not quite sure but you're sluggish and

you need another cup of coffee or candy
bar or something more. If you're athletic,

if you're engaged in sports or other
activities, if you're having fun with your

friends and going out and doing things,
you're going to have the energy to do

that. Plus, you're going to be able to
actually manage your schoolwork

because your brain being optimized, eating
in a healthy way will mean you can manage

your schedule, you can multitask, you can
engage in other activities and still get

through school okay and do well.

SG: 80% of people over the age of 60 put
"fear of loss of memory" as one of their

top concerns, fear of dementia of some
sort. Are there foods that can help stave

off diseases like dementia?

UN: Yes. Certainly, there's some guidance
around what food to eat and how to eat it,

so foods that will help cognition, we
actually go back to those Omega 3's.

It's a group that's featured very
frequently. Olive oil is also one that we

lean into. The herbs and spices that
showed up doing well for cognition, and

for thinking, and for memory are turmeric
with a pinch of black pepper, which makes

it much more bioavailable. Cinnamon,
saffron, rosemary, ginger, sage. Then

some guidances around coffee was thought,
if you keep your caffeine consumption and

your coffee consumption under 400mg a day
was thought to be healthy, but for me,

this is some guidance, while I know that
those foods have been identified as

healthy, it's also part of an overall
plate, right? It's not just eating the

nuts or eating the olive oils, it's
putting that together in a meal that's

still tasty that makes a very big
difference to balancing that out for

people.

SG: I'm very interested in trying to stay
as mentally sharp as possible, as long as

possible. My life, I'm in my early 50's
now, I mean. You've talked about the

specific food groups and things that are
probably going to be the things that I

should gravitate toward, but could you
just, like, what's an ideal breakfast, an

ideal lunch, and an ideal dinner? Should I
be having all three meals, should I

intermittently fast? Snacks? How would
you put it together?

UN: Right, so, with intermittent fasting
or with fasting in general, for my

patients, we usually really see what their
body intelligence is. What I mean by that

is how they respond to food. Do they wake
up hungry? Do they need to take medication

in the morning that require them to eat?
Some people naturally get up and they're

not hungry, and then we lean more into
intuitive eating, lean into what your body

pattern is. I like people to have snacks
because I'd rather they have some healthy

nuts or a little bit of berries that will
nurture them through. Great breakfasts,

things like a chia pudding rich in
protein, fiber, easy to make, has Omega

3's in it, and can be prepared ahead.
Things like if you consume eggs with lots

of veggies of veggies in them, or a
vegetarian version of that would be a tofu

scramble, again lean into the spices,
your fresh herbs, because that's a great

way to go. I'm a fan of avocado toast, I
love sourdough bread, because it has a

fermented starter, so the natural process
of it is it has a slightly lower sugar

content. I slice tomato on it. The
lycopene from tomato are super healthy

for the brain and it actually turns out
that much of the lycopene is from the

skin. So, you know, slice your tomatoes
and leave the skin on. For lunch, I like

to lean into a really big salad and then
put my favorite proteins with that. So,

lentils, legumes, and some tofu or other
things which flavor it up, and make an

interesting dressing that will make that
enjoyable for you. Nuts and seeds are

another great way to lean into it. Then,
one of my other favorite afternoon snacks,

and it's funny because I learned that
chocolate and citrus, like clementines or

oranges, pair well from a flavor profile
in culinary school, but I recently, over

the last few years, discovered there's
actual science behind it. Extra dark

chocolate is the highest source of plant-
based iron. Cool reason to eat dark

chocolate.

SG: Look, I'm never going to eat dark
chocolate the same way again! I will

always have it with a little citrus. I
love little tips like that, that's

fantastic.

UN: Exactly. Then, in the evening is
when I'll usually end up having a bigger

meal. Like, I'll do a cauliflower steak,
but I'll use the spices from tikka

masala. So, you know, someone else in my
family may have the chicken version, but

I'll have the cauliflower version. I can
do it air fried or grilled, but I always

add in veggies around that, so a salad.
I find that to be satiating, I know it's

helping my metabolism, but it's a green.
So the green beans, or the brussel sprouts

or whatever it is, I add spices to them so
that they're more flavorful.

SG: So, I didn't hear any meat?

UN: So, I was born into a vegetarian
family, so I'm vegetarian.

SG: Should I be a vegetarian?

UN: (Laughs) No, I think people should eat
what they enjoy eating. I just think they

should eat healthy versions. I happen to
be in a family where everyone else eats

meat, so I think that meat has a place on
that diet, and I feel like the B vitamins

from meat are something that as a
vegetarian, I supplement. I think there is

also a place for plant-based eaters.

SG: What about carbs?

UN: I think that carbs are important.
They're really important for our brain,

they're really important for our body, but
it's where we obtain our carbs.

SG: A lot of messaging seems to indicate
that they're toxic because of the glycemic

index, the sugar, these types of things,
the calories.

UN: Right. So, all of those, there's truth
to many of those factors, but I think it's

the messaging has also got to show people
that you need carbs for your body and for

your brain to function. It's where you
obtain your carbs; if you're eating a

sugary donut with a coffee laced with
highly processed cream and eight sugars,

that's very different from a avocado toast
on sourdough bread, maybe with some smoked

salmon or a tofu scramble with tons of
spinach and vegetables in it. A totally

different product. They break down
differently in your body.

SG: Yeah, the healthy carbs vs. the
healthy proteins vs. the healthy fats, you

know, these big categories of food. We
know that myelin coats the nerves and it's

kind of like the coating on a wire. A wire
doesn't conduct as well unless it has the

coating on it. Myelin is sort of like that
coating on nerves, and that's made up

primarily of fat, and there's been people
that I have talked to that have said you

really need to focus on eating those fats
to get that myelin. I would put that at

he top of my list in terms of brain
foods. Maybe not the healthiest

cardiovascular, although again, these are
good fats, not the bad trans fats. If you

look at healthy proteins, healthy fats,
healthy carbs, how to you sort of think

about it with regard to impact on the
brain?

UN: So I think that balance is really
important. I ask people to lean into all

the different vegetables, and I'm not
leading with potatoes and sweet potatoes.

I'm leading with cruciferous vegetables
and leafy greens, and legumes, lentils,

and beans. Then you want to think of your
olive oil, your avocado, your salmon, and

your other healthy fats. You want to think
about, what I like to say, your "clean"

source of protein, and all I mean by that
is have, you know, stir-fry tofu in a

healthy way, or air fry something instead
of deep fried fish, for example. The fish

itself may be healthy, but the method is
not. Now, once in a while, of course, but

not as your everyday meal. Then, I don't
forget fruit. So, some berries, you know,

a couple servings of fruit is super
important to get those natural sugars into

your body rather than reaching for the
candy bar that we know is not the

healthiest choice.

SG: So what about sugar? And, let me
preface it by saying this; I did a piece

for 60 Minutes years ago called "The Toxic
Truth", and we thought long and hard about

what to title this, because I didn't want
it to be unfairly or unnecessarily

alarmist. But, when I talked to some of
the nutritionists when we were

interviewing them, they said this is an
appropriate title. The way we humans

consume sugar is toxic. We consume too
much, our livers don't know what to do

with it, it hits our bodies like a tsunami
wave, and churns out these low-density

lipoproteins, the bad kind of
cholesterol, which I thought was really

interesting. The brain, when it's exposed
to too much sugar, the receptors will

actually start to shut down. So, you could
be in a situation, as they outlined it to

me, where you're stuffing the body and
starving the brain essentially at the

same time, and that's because you're
eating too much sugar. We know it's a

problem, but how bad is sugar for our
brain?

UN: So, sugar is a problem, but I also
want people to understand we need sugar

or our bodies and our brains, so it's
where you get the sugar that's important.

Metabolic health, you know, with the
rising in type 2 diabetes, insulin

resistance in this country, the fact that
we have common overweight and obesity in

the country, there's a reason. I do think
there's so much sugar in our everyday

foods, including our savory foods, like
our ketchup, pasta sauces, salad

dressings. French fries at fast food
restaurants are engineered to contain

sugar. You don't taste it, but they are
really engineered to tap into our

cravings.

SG: That sounds kind of sinister when you
put it like that. I realize that this

isn't opioids we're talking about, but
the idea of tapping into our cravings..

UN: The research has shown that foods,
ultra processed and processed, have a

significant amount of brain science
behind how they tap into cravings. I think

that, the more that people should
understand the amount of sugar in our

food. So, I teach all my patients that 4
grams of sugar is 1 teaspoon, because our

food labels are in grams and we cook and
bake all our U.S. cookbooks in pounds and

ounces. So, if a person goes to a yogurt,
and it's 6oz or 4oz, it could have 24g of

sugar in it. You'd think, "Oh, that's not
bad." When actually, you wouldn't put that

number of teaspoons into your plain
yogurt.

SG: So, if you see 4g of sugar on the food
label, imagine you're seeing a full

teaspoon of sugar in it. You see 12g, 3
teaspoons. So, it's a good visual. Let me

ask you real quick, coffee/caffeine is
something that seems to come on and off

the favored list. Where do you land on
that, when it comes to the brain?

UN: I like coffee, and I think that
coffee has a lot of health benefits in

it. It's actually rich in plant
polyphenols. The caffeine, my patients

with anxiety can be sensitive to, so it
depends on what their tolerance is.

Interestingly, studies of ADHD in adults
show that coffee can help focus, so it's a

certain amount of coffee, not too much,
so my patients who are struggling with

ADHD or some issues around focus, I like
to encourage them, if they can tolerate

coffee and they don't become jittery or
uncomfortable. You know, have it early in

the day, don't go more than 2-3 cups,
have them be small cups. Also, clean up

the coffee, meaning, you know, have it the
way that you'd like, but if you're putting

1/2 cup of processed cream and 8 sugars,
you're not helping your brain.

SG: Can we manage anxiety with food? This
is the topic of your new book coming out

just in time for the holidays, right?

UN: It is. My new book is "Calm Your Mind
With Food" because during the pandemic,

that's what I saw. People really
struggling at all ages, all demographics,

with anxiety and we know that even coming
out of Covid, that numbers are increased.

So, I feel that if we looked at an
integrated approach to really using

anxiety more as a strength and using food
to harness how we can feel better, I think

it'll help a lot of us.

SG: I would like to imagine a world where
we just wouldn't have to take many of the

medications that we take. I mean, I'm a
doctor, you're a doctor, there's a role,

but we spend $4 trillion on health care,
and an increasingly large amount of that

is on prescription drugs. Food is the only
signal we give the inside of our body from

the outside world on a daily basis and it
can be therapeutic. It can make us feel

better, and I just really, really love
the work that you do, Dr. Naidoo. I really

admire it.

UN: Thank you so much. Thank you for
having me back, it's always great to talk

to you. You always have fascinating
questions, I love it.

SG: We talked for a long time, Dr. Naidoo
and I, and she goes into even more depth

in this connection between diet and
anxiety in her new book, which is coming

out in December. As I've told her, it's
an idea that I find really fascinating.

It makes sense that food affects our
bodies. It also affects our brains, and

it does so quickly, so it makes total
sense that it would affect our mental

health as well. Food is more than just
calories; it's a signal. It's a message.

It affects more than your weight and
whether you have a flat stomach or not.

Food can be a medicine. It can help stave
off disease, manage our moods, help us

think more clearly. So, chew on that the
next time you want to feel smarter, or

calmer. Next time on Chasing Life, we have
a very special episode for you. We're

going to be talking about the frightened
brain. What happens when we get scared,

and why do some people like feeling that
way? Who better to answer those questions

than the king of horror himself: Stephen
King.

Stephen King: Everything is out to get
you. You see, that's the dark side of the

imagination. But, the good side of it is
that you're able to take reasonable

precautions and watch out for either
Coronavirus, or Jason in the Friday the

13th movies. They both go together.

SG: Thanks for listening.

Chasing life is a production of CNN Audio.
Our podcast is produced by Eryn

Mathewson, Madeleine Thompson, David Rind,
and Grace Walker. Our senior producer and

show runner is Felicia Patinkin. Andrea
Kane is our medical writer, and Tommy

Barbarian is our engineer. Dan Dzula is
our technical director, and the executive

producer of CNN audio is Steve Lickteig.
Special thanks to Ben Tinker, Amanda Sealy

and Nadia Kounang of CNN Health.