0:00:00.470,0:00:03.648 [music] 0:00:03.648,0:00:05.138 (Speaker) [br]So, I mean, it's the 0:00:05.138,0:00:06.629 old adage you are what you eat. 0:00:07.140,0:00:09.970 When I eat, like, sugary [br]or caffeinated foods 0:00:09.970,0:00:12.800 I often find myself, like, [br]unable to focus. 0:00:13.394,0:00:18.230 So, eating healthier foods[br]has had a significant impact on 0:00:18.230,0:00:23.410 how well I can focus, as well as[br]how quick I can think. 0:00:23.950,0:00:25.594 (Host)[br]That's Angela Guo. 0:00:25.982,0:00:28.978 She's a 17-year old senior at[br]Adlai Stevenson High School 0:00:29.309,0:00:31.070 in Lincolnshire, Illinois. 0:00:31.568,0:00:34.954 And that adage she just cited,[br]"You are what you eat," 0:00:35.398,0:00:37.522 that's been around since the 1800's. 0:00:37.928,0:00:42.218 People have known for a long time[br]just how much food affects us. 0:00:42.818,0:00:45.650 But it's not just in terms of[br]long-term health, 0:00:45.966,0:00:48.123 but also short-term mood. 0:00:48.663,0:00:51.526 (Angela)[br]Food really helps us maintain 0:00:51.526,0:00:55.939 a state clarity. And, so, [br]eating healthier foods 0:00:55.939,0:00:58.691 has had a significant impact 0:00:58.691,0:01:04.021 on how well I can focus, as well as[br]how quick I can think. 0:01:05.008,0:01:05.454 (Host) [br]She may only be in high school, 0:01:05.901,0:01:06.794 but Angela has 0:01:06.794,0:01:10.494 already made the crucial connection [br]between what she puts in her mouth 0:01:10.494,0:01:12.950 and how quickly that affects her brain. 0:01:13.510,0:01:15.729 She even believes that[br]simple understanding 0:01:16.078,0:01:18.259 gave her a real advantage[br]when she competed 0:01:18.259,0:01:21.277 in the National Science Olympiad[br]tournament earlier this year. 0:01:22.006,0:01:25.404 (Announcer) [br]First place, national champions of the 0:01:25.404,0:01:28.849 2023 Science Olympiad National Tournament, 0:01:28.849,0:01:33.023 Adlai Stevenson High School of Illinois! [br]Let's go! [audience cheering] 0:01:33.663,0:01:35.951 (Host)[br]Now, at this tournament earlier this year, 0:01:35.951,0:01:38.957 Angela and her teammates went up[br]against thousands of students 0:01:38.957,0:01:40.179 from around the country. 0:01:40.179,0:01:42.387 They were competing in [br]events, highlighting 0:01:42.387,0:01:44.595 chemistry and earth science and biology. 0:01:44.870,0:01:48.006 But here's the thing:[br]the entire time on Angela's team 0:01:48.244,0:01:50.259 you really didn't see much sugar around. 0:01:50.430,0:01:53.037 Instead, there were lots[br]of healthy snacks. 0:01:54.310,0:01:56.969 (Angela)[br]So, even at school, I'd bring my own lunch 0:01:57.171,0:02:00.687 and it's just that aspect of[br]knowing what goes into your meals 0:02:00.911,0:02:03.865 is like really important. It kind of[br]gives you peace of mind. 0:02:04.093,0:02:07.019 (Host) [br]The team did really well, and now as they 0:02:07.019,0:02:08.477 prepare for more tournaments, 0:02:08.477,0:02:12.944 Angela, who's now a team captain, says,[br]"Sure, they do study hard, 0:02:13.192,0:02:17.791 but what they eat, how they eat,[br]that's also top of mind. 0:02:18.312,0:02:22.627 AG: When we do travel for Science Olympiad[br]our coaches always makes sure that 0:02:22.629,0:02:24.570 our, like, bus is well stocked with 0:02:24.570,0:02:26.512 fruits and water. 0:02:26.852,0:02:31.249 SG: So Angela, seems pretty convinced[br]that food helps her focus 0:02:31.249,0:02:33.447 and perform well academically. 0:02:33.866,0:02:37.203 Of course, that makes sense[br]but the question today, 0:02:37.409,0:02:41.970 "What is the empirical evidence[br]to support that and how does it work? 0:02:42.319,0:02:44.659 How exactly does food impact the brain? 0:02:44.969,0:02:48.330 And how do we really know when our brain[br]is well nourished?" 0:02:48.330,0:02:50.301 Uma Naidoo: Sugar is not good 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 for our brain 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 But I also want people to understand[br]we need sugar for our bodies 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 and our brain, 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 so it's where you get the sugar[br]that's important. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 SG: Look, a lot of people worry about[br]how food influences the way we look, 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 how much weight we may gain[br]-- I get that -- 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 or the likelihood we're going to be[br]high risk for diseases, 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 like diabetes and hypertension. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 But even though it is harder to measure,[br]food is also deeply connected 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 to how we feel in the moment[br]and how well the brain functions. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Even as you listen to this podcast,[br]your experience, right now, 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 is likely affected[br]by what you ate earlier today. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 So in this episode, I'm going to find out[br]what's the best fuel for the brain, 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 what food we should avoid[br]and what it really means 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 to have a well-nourished brain. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 I'm Dr. Sanjay Gupta, CNN's[br]Chief Medical Correspondent 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 and this is Chasing Life. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 You know, I love hearing stories[br]like Angela's. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 They're so personal. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 She's someone who's paying attention[br]to her body and then she's figuring out 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 what makes her feel good and what it takes[br]to do the activities she loves. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 She's being really intentional[br]with her nutrition 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 and that may save her from having[br]health problems later in life 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 but, it could help optimize[br]her function now. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 For me, food is an endless source[br]of fascination. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 The way that I think about it is this: 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Food is one of the most significant ways[br]we allow our outside world to influence 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 and communicate with our inside world,[br]the world inside of our body and our mind. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 That is an awesome task. Food does that. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 So, I thought today we would start[br]with the basics. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 We know that all food items have calories[br]and calories are by definition energy 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 but, as you just heard, not all calories[br]are created equal. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Some have more nutrients[br]and do more to promote 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 overall health and well-being than others. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 And that is especially true[br]when it comes to the brain. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 But the challenge again:[br]That's hard to measure. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 There is no brain scan or blood test [br]that indicates that a particular food 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 promotes brain health. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 So how do we really know? 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 How do you really know what works for you? 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 To find out, I return to someone[br]whose work I really respect 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 both in the clinic and in the kitchen,[br]someone who knows a lot 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 about this really intricate connection[br]between food and brain health. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Uma Naidoo: If you want, you know, 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 your brain to really be optimized, 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 lean into the foods you like,[br]but the healthy versions of that. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 SG: That's Dr Uma Naidoo;[br]she's a nutritional psychiatrist. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Such a cool field.[br]She's at Harvard Medical School. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 What she does is that she works[br]with patients to improve 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 their mental health with the help[br]of medication and food. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 She's also a professional chef.[br]She's the author of the books 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 "This is Your Brain on Food" and[br]"Calm Your Mind with Food." 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 That one's going to be released[br]later this year. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 I should tell you, this is actually[br]Dr Naidoo's second time on the show. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 We spoke a few years ago about[br]the broader concept of food as medicine, 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 and I was so fascinated by[br]the conversation, so affected by it, 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 I asked her to come back and discuss[br]how food impacts brain health specifically 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 and brain function. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 I have long said that I think food 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 can be medicine, I also think [br]just philosophically, 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 we consciously decide what signals[br]we're going to give to the inside 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 of our body through food. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 What the discussion has primarily[br]focused on has been calories and energy, 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 and are you going overweight or not. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 UN: Correct[br]SG: So what are those foods that are both 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 good for the brain and can actually[br]get to the brain? 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 UN: What I think is good, and I think[br]what is helpful for people, 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 especially in the U.S., is that most[br]people are consuming 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 the standard American diet 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 which, as you know, is called sad[br]for a reason. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 So any time that we can add those lipid[br]grains and those actual whole foods 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 onto our plate, you know, and think[br]about it that way and step away 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 a little bit from those processed [br]fast foods, 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 the healthier we are going to become[br]as a country and I think that that is 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 because processed, ultra-processed foods[br]are engineered, as you know, 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 to trick our brain. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 So we eat more, we can't stop ourselves. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 SG: Yeah, maybe I'm being audacious here[br]in doing a podcast about how to achieve 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 a most optimally nourished brain. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 As you correctly point out, we have[br]a lot of work to do as a country to just 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 stop doing the bad things, maybe even[br]before we can, uh, really, really focus 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 on the good things. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 But the idea that food itself can be[br]medicine and that can be quantified, 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 maybe even to the point, for someone like[br]you, prescribed. Are we to the point, 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 with what we know, data-wise that food[br]can be thought of prescriptive, 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 like we think of medicine? 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 UN: So I can't yet say to you, you need[br]to eat ten blueberries over this amount 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 of time to improve your mood. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 But what we do know from pretty large[br]population-based studies that 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 if you were consuming extra-dark natural[br]chocolate, that it improved depression 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 by 70% in over 12,000 participants. [br]We know and it was in the candy bars 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 it was extra dark natural chocolate, [br]which contains serotonin, magnesium, 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 um, some fiber. So, we're not at a point[br]where I can say this number 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 of blueberries in order to improve [br]your mood, 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 but we are definitely emerging and[br]growing in the scientific evidence 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 to be able to say you can construct[br]a nutritional psychiatry plate 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 for your mood. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 You can lean into those leafy green[br]vegetable, 3-5 cups a day. Um, things like 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 arugula, spinach all contain folate. [br]A low folate is associated with low mood. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 So, we can give people guidance around it[br]and really have them understanding that 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 food is moving in that direction. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 SG: Now before we hear more food [br]recommendations, I want to note something 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 that's, I think, really important here.[br]the term "brain food." 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 That gets thrown around a lot. But, true[br]brain food meaning any food that actually 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 impacts the function of the brain has to [br]do something really important. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 It's got to get past the blood-brain [br]barrier. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Now, I don't want to get to wonky or[br]technical, but I think it's important 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 for you to understand this point.[br]Think of the blood-brain barrier as sort 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 of a body guard for the brain. [br]This barrier prevents the entry of toxins 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 and pathogens and other molecules[br]that could be harmful to the brain. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 What it looks like is a system of blood [br]vessels around the brain and the central 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 nervous system that sort of keep tight[br]control over which molecules and which 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 nutrients are allowed to get in. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 UN: We know this, for example[br]a lot of serotonin that's manufactured 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 in the gut and some in the brain[br]but the more peripheral serotonin 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 doesn't cross over the blood brain[br]barrier, so why not look at the foods 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 which are the precursors to the [br]neurotransmitters, that then 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 interact with the gut microbes,[br]I'm fascinated by the gut microbes. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 The impact of the gut microbes and [br]then they are able to cross over 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 the blood brain barrier and then form[br]the substances that we need 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 in the brain. So I'm thinking about[br]things we need like serotonin 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 and dopamine. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Let me hit pause here to [br]explain a couple of things about 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 the gut. You probably know this,[br]but the gut contains trillions 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 of micro organisms. Bacteria,[br]viruses, fungi. Collectively 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 they are referred to as the gut[br]microbiome. Now, these micro organisms 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 or microbes aren't just hanging out,[br]they play an important role in 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 our health and they are constantly[br]interacting with each other and 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 the rest of our body. While a few of[br]those bacteria or pathogens are 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 potentially harmful, many are helpful.[br]For example, what they will do is 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 they will break down food, they will[br]then interact with our immune system, 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 they will synthesize vitamins and amino[br]acids. And then they communicate with 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 other parts of the body. And that brings[br]me to the second thing about the gut. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 It is sometimes called the second brain,[br]and I think that is a good title. And 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 that's because it uses many of the same[br]chemicals and cells as the brain to do 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 its job and to communicate.[br]In fact, there is an extraordinary amount 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 of cross talk between the gut and the [br]brain. This makes the gut very 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 sensitive to emotions. Anger, fear,[br]anxiety. Those things can cause 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 problems in the gut, vise versa.[br]When the gut feels bad, it can 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 cause anxiety and other emotional[br]issues. Understanding that might 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 give new meaning to phrases like,[br]having "butterflies in your stomach" 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 when you're nervous, or a quote, unquote[br]"gut feeling" about a person or 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 a situation. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 This is why Doctor Niudu's work is so [br]important and intriguing. She says, 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 "It is possible for food to impact how[br]well our brain functions and how we 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 feel mentally." For example, some ultra[br]processed foods have been linked to 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 disrupting the gut microbiome in a way[br]that increases the risk for depression. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 In contrast, some whole foods such as[br]bananas help trigger the production 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 of important chemicals in the gut[br]such as the molecule, serotonin. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 But again, remember this point.[br]Much of the serotonin made 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 in the gut cannot cross the blood[br]brain barrier and that is why 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 doctor Nidu says we need to[br]focus on the precursors to 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 serotonin, which can then cross[br]more easily and be assembled 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 in the brain. Think of it like this,[br]there are certain foods, for example, 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 ones that are rich in the amino acid[br]tryptophan, that when eaten interact 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 with the gut microbiome. You[br]with me? 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 And they become then the precursor[br]or building blocks for serotonin. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 And then these building blocks cross[br]into the brain, get converted to 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 serotonin, and exert their influence. [br]The reason that I'm repeating this 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 so many times is because it[br]is so important. What does 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 this all mean? Eating foods like, [br]salmon or pineapple, ones that 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 are loaded with tryptophan, could[br]help you feel happier and calmer. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 That is a better definition of brain[br]food. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 UN: Another fascinating but odd[br]research that is coming through is 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 several microbiome companies testing[br]the microbiome. So, they are looking 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 more deeply into what's in the [br]microbiome and what you may need 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 to eat versus what I might need to eat[br]because our microbiome is so 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 sort of unique. Whether you take that[br]substance as a supplement, or you 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 take it as a guidance around food, it[br]can really help us more finely tune 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 the way that we can be eating. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 SG: What level of evidence to you rely[br]on to make your recommendations 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 when it comes to food? How do you[br]collect that data and that evidence? 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 UN: So, I try to keep current with [br]whatever the new research is. For 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 example, there was a fascinating study[br]done recently and all of these years 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 I've been encouraging my patients to[br]eat foods that are rich in vitamin A. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 And this particular study show that [br]actually vitamin A rich foods are not 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 that helpful for mood or for your[br]brain health. Another interesting 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 study. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 SG: What are those foods? Not to cut you[br]off, but what kinds of foods are we 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 talking about? 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 UN: So, you know, eggs, milk, fish oils[br]beef liver, tomatoes, red bell pepper. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Now, does it mean that those foods[br]are foods I will tell my patients not 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 to eat? Absolutely not. Uh, like, the[br]new research about serotonin. It's 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 more that I would have emphasized[br]eating vitamin A rich foods along with 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 that nutritional psychiatry plate. [br]And I most importantly feel that 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 what's been my secret sources has[br]been integrating the actual literature 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 the research and what I do [br]clinically with seeing patients and 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 being able to monitor them you know[br]and see how they do. Because I think, 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 please know that I come at this with [br]great humility. I don't feel that 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 because whatever I've studied that[br]you know, that I have the way to make 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 everyone feel better. But I have [br]certainly seen my patients improve. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 SG: You know, when I was growing up,[br]um, maybe you heard this as well 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 when you were a child, but there[br]were certain foods that were 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 "brain foods." Fish for example[br]was sort of considered a brain food. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 UN: Nuts, almonds.[br]SG: Nuts, you know. And my 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 mom would always, you know,[br]"If you eat this, you'll be smart." 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 You know, that was always the 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 encouragement. But what of it,[br]though? Are there foods that 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 can reliably help our brains? [br]What are they and why? 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 UN: So, one of the groups I'll start with,[br]because people are pretty familiar 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 with this, that the foods rich in[br]omega-3. So, things like fatty 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 fish. There's a mnemonic for the fish that[br]are top of the list, "SMASH". Salmon, 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Mackerel, Anchovies, Sardines, and[br]Herring. Um, because they contain 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 forms of uh EPAJHA that are actually[br]helpful um for the brain and will 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 actually make a difference. And they [br]have anti Primatene and antioxidant 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 properties. Then, you know people who [br]don't consume seafood can rely on the 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 plant based sources like chia seeds, [br]flax seeds, almonds. Having a vegan 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 supplement or an algal oil supplement[br]made from sea algae is something that 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 you can do to improve your brain [br]performance if you feel you're not 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 getting enough nutrition from food.[br]So that's one very big group. Another 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 group of foods that I think people[br]tend to just think of only as a 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 supplement, but is actually available[br]in our everyday foods, are prebiotics 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 and probiotics. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 SG: Ok, I want to pause here again [br]to offer a crash course in pre and 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 probiotics. Terms you've probably heard[br]about. Probiotics are "live bacteria" that 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 may offer health benefits when [br]consumed in adequate numbers. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 You can find them in things like [br]fermented foods. Yogurt, kimchee. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 You can buy them in pill form. Prebiotics [br]on the other hand, are food for your 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 microbiome. These are the organisms[br]that are living in your gut and prebiotic 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 foods are usually higher in certain[br]types of fiber and include items like 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 fruit and veggies and whole grains. [br]Now, as Doctor Nidu said, it is hard 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 to prescribe these foods to an exact[br]timing or an exact dosage, but at the 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 time, we have been making a lot of [br]progress there as well. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 UN: So when we think about food groups, [br]Omega 3, those probiotics and prebiotics, 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 those fermented foods, all can actually be[br]helpful in reducing things like anxiety 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 and depression. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 SG: We'll be right back. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 SG: And now back to Chasing Life and my [br]conversation with nutritional psychiatrist 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Dr. Uma Naidoo. Now that I have a better[br]sense of which, and how, certain foods 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 might impact my mood, what I wanted to[br]know is how food might affect my 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 general brain health. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 UN: So just, you know, having a dairy and[br]non-dairy plain yogurt with live active 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 cultures does help your gut. Probiotics[br]were actually tested in the study and the 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 use of probiotics were compared to a[br]dose of an SSRI, and the probiotics showed 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 a better effect. So, not to single out[br]just one study, it has been shown again, 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 but I think that's compelling information,[br]that a person who is consuming something 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 like yogurt, or say a fermented food is[br]adding these probiotics and live cultures 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 to their gut, could in fact be helping[br]the gut microbes, helping the serotonin 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 formation there. We don't know the exact[br]mechanisms of everything, but we can tell 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 by the improvements in symptoms. For[br]example, if I am assessing someone in my 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 clinic, I have to go by their report,[br]which may or may not be 100% accurate 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 sometimes, but that happens with all of[br]us, but also to check the improvement of 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 their mood. Improvement in anxiety. That[br]is one way to assess how they're doing and 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 if these foods are making a difference. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 SG: So, you're comparing yogurt to an[br]antidepressant. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 UN: That's right. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 SG: I mean, that, I know it's almost[br]comical to reflect on, but I mean look, we 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 take too many pills, ya know? And these[br]pills have side-effects, and so the idea 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 that yogurt could, and I don't want to[br]overstate this, Dr. Naidoo, so you tell 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 me. What do they find when they compare[br]yogurt to an antidepressant in a study? 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 UN: So, they found that individuals who [br]consumed yogurt along with, say, a 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 selective serotonin re-uptake inhibitor [br]had a better response and improvement in 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 mood. So, it offered us a guidance in this[br]area to basically think that, you know, we 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 can use these inventions around the gut[br]microbiome, and the use of things like 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 probiotics. Which, you know, I think most[br]of my patients would rather reach for 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 a yogurt than, you know, an[br]antidepressant. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 SG: If I was to describe to my three[br]teenage girls a well nourished brain, 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 like, I think we can describe a healthy[br]body, right? We can say, "You don't have 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 plaques in your blood vessels, you have[br]good blood pressure, heart rate.." all 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 that sort of stuff. How, Dr. Naidoo,[br]would you describe a well nourished brain? 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 What do you get in return? 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 UN: For one thing, you focus, your energy,[br]your ability to get through your day, not 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 having that afternoon slump where you're[br]not quite sure but you're sluggish and 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 you need another cup of coffee or candy[br]bar or something more. If you're athletic, 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 if you're engaged in sports or other[br]activities, if you're having fun with your 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 friends and going out and doing things, [br]you're going to have the energy to do 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 that. Plus, you're going to be able to [br]actually manage your schoolwork 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 because your brain being optimized, eating[br]in a healthy way will mean you can manage 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 your schedule, you can multitask, you can[br]engage in other activities and still get 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 through school okay and do well. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 SG: 80% of people over the age of 60 put [br]"fear of loss of memory" as one of their 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 top concerns, fear of dementia of some[br]sort. Are there foods that can help stave 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 off diseases like dementia? 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 UN: Yes. Certainly, there's some guidance[br]around what food to eat and how to eat it, 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 so foods that will help cognition, we[br]actually go back to those Omega 3's. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 It's a group that's featured very[br]frequently. Olive oil is also one that we 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 lean into. The herbs and spices that[br]showed up doing well for cognition, and 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 for thinking, and for memory are turmeric [br]with a pinch of black pepper, which makes 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 it much more bioavailable. Cinnamon, [br]saffron, rosemary, ginger, sage. Then 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 some guidances around coffee was thought,[br]if you keep your caffeine consumption and [br] 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 your coffee consumption under 400mg a day[br]was thought to be healthy, but for me, 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 this is some guidance, while I know that[br]those foods have been identified as 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 healthy, it's also part of an overall[br]plate, right? It's not just eating the 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 nuts or eating the olive oils, it's[br]putting that together in a meal that's 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 still tasty that makes a very big [br]difference to balancing that out for 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 people. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 SG: I'm very interested in trying to stay[br]as mentally sharp as possible, as long as 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 possible. My life, I'm in my early 50's[br]now, I mean. You've talked about the 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 specific food groups and things that are [br]probably going to be the things that I 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 should gravitate toward, but could you[br]just, like, what's an ideal breakfast, an 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 ideal lunch, and an ideal dinner? Should I[br]be having all three meals, should I 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 intermittently fast? Snacks? How would[br]you put it together? 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 UN: Right, so, with intermittent fasting[br]or with fasting in general, for my 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 patients, we usually really see what their[br]body intelligence is. What I mean by that 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 is how they respond to food. Do they wake[br]up hungry? Do they need to take medication 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 in the morning that require them to eat?[br]Some people naturally get up and they're 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 not hungry, and then we lean more into[br]intuitive eating, lean into what your body 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 pattern is. I like people to have snacks[br]because I'd rather they have some healthy 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 nuts or a little bit of berries that will[br]nurture them through. Great breakfasts, 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 things like a chia pudding rich in[br]protein, fiber, easy to make, has Omega 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 3's in it, and can be prepared ahead.[br]Things like if you consume eggs with lots 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 of veggies of veggies in them, or a[br]vegetarian version of that would be a tofu 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 scramble, again lean into the spices,[br]your fresh herbs, because that's a great 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 way to go. I'm a fan of avocado toast, I [br]love sourdough bread, because it has a 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 fermented starter, so the natural process[br]of it is it has a slightly lower sugar 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 content. I slice tomato on it. The[br]lycopene from tomato are super healthy 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 for the brain and it actually turns out [br]that much of the lycopene is from the 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 skin. So, you know, slice your tomatoes[br]and leave the skin on. For lunch, I like 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 to lean into a really big salad and then[br]put my favorite proteins with that. So, 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 lentils, legumes, and some tofu or other [br]things which flavor it up, and make an 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 interesting dressing that will make that [br]enjoyable for you. Nuts and seeds are 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 another great way to lean into it. Then, [br]one of my other favorite afternoon snacks, 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 and it's funny because I learned that[br]chocolate and citrus, like clementines or 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 oranges, pair well from a flavor profile[br]in culinary school, but I recently, over 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 the last few years, discovered there's [br]actual science behind it. Extra dark 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 chocolate is the highest source of plant-[br]based iron. Cool reason to eat dark 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 chocolate. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 SG: Look, I'm never going to eat dark[br]chocolate the same way again! I will 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 always have it with a little citrus. I[br]love little tips like that, that's 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 fantastic. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 UN: Exactly. Then, in the evening is[br]when I'll usually end up having a bigger 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 meal. Like, I'll do a cauliflower steak,[br]but I'll use the spices from tikka 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 masala. So, you know, someone else in my [br]family may have the chicken version, but 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 I'll have the cauliflower version. I can[br]do it air fried or grilled, but I always 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 add in veggies around that, so a salad.[br]I find that to be satiating, I know it's 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 helping my metabolism, but it's a green.[br]So the green beans, or the brussel sprouts 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 or whatever it is, I add spices to them so[br]that they're more flavorful. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 SG: So, I didn't hear any meat? 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 UN: So, I was born into a vegetarian [br]family, so I'm vegetarian. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 SG: Should I be a vegetarian? 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 UN: (Laughs) No, I think people should eat[br]what they enjoy eating. I just think they 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 should eat healthy versions. I happen to [br]be in a family where everyone else eats 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 meat, so I think that meat has a place on[br]that diet, and I feel like the B vitamins 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 from meat are something that as a[br]vegetarian, I supplement. I think there is 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 also a place for plant-based eaters. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 SG: What about carbs? 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 UN: I think that carbs are important. [br]They're really important for our brain, 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 they're really important for our body, but[br]it's where we obtain our carbs. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 SG: A lot of messaging seems to indicate[br]that they're toxic because of the glycemic 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 index, the sugar, these types of things, [br]the calories. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 UN: Right. So, all of those, there's truth[br]to many of those factors, but I think it's 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 the messaging has also got to show people[br]that you need carbs for your body and for 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 your brain to function. It's where you[br]obtain your carbs; if you're eating a 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 sugary donut with a coffee laced with [br]highly processed cream and eight sugars, 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 that's very different from a avocado toast[br]on sourdough bread, maybe with some smoked 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 salmon or a tofu scramble with tons of[br]spinach and vegetables in it. A totally 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 different product. They break down[br]differently in your body. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 SG: Yeah, the healthy carbs vs. the[br]healthy proteins vs. the healthy fats, you 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 know, these big categories of food. We [br]know that myelin coats the nerves and it's 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 kind of like the coating on a wire. A wire[br]doesn't conduct as well unless it has the 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 coating on it. Myelin is sort of like that[br]coating on nerves, and that's made up 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 primarily of fat, and there's been people[br]that I have talked to that have said you 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 really need to focus on eating those fats[br]to get that myelin. I would put that at 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 he top of my list in terms of brain[br]foods. Maybe not the healthiest 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 cardiovascular, although again, these are[br]good fats, not the bad trans fats. If you 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 look at healthy proteins, healthy fats,[br]healthy carbs, how to you sort of think 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 about it with regard to impact on the [br]brain? 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 UN: So I think that balance is really[br]important. I ask people to lean into all 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 the different vegetables, and I'm not [br]leading with potatoes and sweet potatoes. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 I'm leading with cruciferous vegetables[br]and leafy greens, and legumes, lentils, 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 and beans. Then you want to think of your [br]olive oil, your avocado, your salmon, and 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 your other healthy fats. You want to think[br]about, what I like to say, your "clean" 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 source of protein, and all I mean by that[br]is have, you know, stir-fry tofu in a 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 healthy way, or air fry something instead [br]of deep fried fish, for example. The fish 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 itself may be healthy, but the method is[br]not. Now, once in a while, of course, but 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 not as your everyday meal. Then, I don't[br]forget fruit. So, some berries, you know, 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 a couple servings of fruit is super[br]important to get those natural sugars into 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 your body rather than reaching for the [br]candy bar that we know is not the 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 healthiest choice. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 SG: So what about sugar? And, let me[br]preface it by saying this; I did a piece 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 for 60 Minutes years ago called "The Toxic[br]Truth", and we thought long and hard about 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 what to title this, because I didn't want[br]it to be unfairly or unnecessarily 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 alarmist. But, when I talked to some of[br]the nutritionists when we were 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 interviewing them, they said this is an[br]appropriate title. The way we humans 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 consume sugar is toxic. We consume too[br]much, our livers don't know what to do 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 with it, it hits our bodies like a tsunami[br]wave, and churns out these low-density 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 lipoproteins, the bad kind of[br]cholesterol, which I thought was really 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 interesting. The brain, when it's exposed[br]to too much sugar, the receptors will 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 actually start to shut down. So, you could[br]be in a situation, as they outlined it to 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 me, where you're stuffing the body and [br]starving the brain essentially at the 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 same time, and that's because you're[br]eating too much sugar. We know it's a 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 problem, but how bad is sugar for our[br]brain? 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 UN: So, sugar is a problem, but I also[br]want people to understand we need sugar 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 or our bodies and our brains, so it's[br]where you get the sugar that's important. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Metabolic health, you know, with the[br]rising in type 2 diabetes, insulin 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 resistance in this country, the fact that[br]we have common overweight and obesity in 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 the country, there's a reason. I do think[br]there's so much sugar in our everyday 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 foods, including our savory foods, like[br]our ketchup, pasta sauces, salad 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 dressings. French fries at fast food [br]restaurants are engineered to contain 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 sugar. You don't taste it, but they are[br]really engineered to tap into our 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 cravings. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 SG: That sounds kind of sinister when you[br]put it like that. I realize that this 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 isn't opioids we're talking about, but[br]the idea of tapping into our cravings.. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 UN: The research has shown that foods,[br]ultra processed and processed, have a 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 significant amount of brain science[br]behind how they tap into cravings. I think 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 that, the more that people should[br]understand the amount of sugar in our 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 food. So, I teach all my patients that 4[br]grams of sugar is 1 teaspoon, because our 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 food labels are in grams and we cook and [br]bake all our U.S. cookbooks in pounds and 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 ounces. So, if a person goes to a yogurt,[br]and it's 6oz or 4oz, it could have 24g of 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 sugar in it. You'd think, "Oh, that's not[br]bad." When actually, you wouldn't put that 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 number of teaspoons into your plain[br]yogurt. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 SG: So, if you see 4g of sugar on the food[br]label, imagine you're seeing a full 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 teaspoon of sugar in it. You see 12g, 3 [br]teaspoons. So, it's a good visual. Let me 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 ask you real quick, coffee/caffeine is [br]something that seems to come on and off 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 the favored list. Where do you land on[br]that, when it comes to the brain? 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 UN: I like coffee, and I think that[br]coffee has a lot of health benefits in 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 it. It's actually rich in plant[br]polyphenols. The caffeine, my patients 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 with anxiety can be sensitive to, so it [br]depends on what their tolerance is. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Interestingly, studies of ADHD in adults[br]show that coffee can help focus, so it's a 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 certain amount of coffee, not too much,[br]so my patients who are struggling with 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 ADHD or some issues around focus, I like[br]to encourage them, if they can tolerate 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 coffee and they don't become jittery or[br]uncomfortable. You know, have it early in 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 the day, don't go more than 2-3 cups, [br]have them be small cups. Also, clean up 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 the coffee, meaning, you know, have it the[br]way that you'd like, but if you're putting 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 1/2 cup of processed cream and 8 sugars,[br]you're not helping your brain. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 SG: Can we manage anxiety with food? This[br]is the topic of your new book coming out 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 just in time for the holidays, right? 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 UN: It is. My new book is "Calm Your Mind[br]With Food" because during the pandemic, 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 that's what I saw. People really[br]struggling at all ages, all demographics, 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 with anxiety and we know that even coming[br]out of Covid, that numbers are increased. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 So, I feel that if we looked at an[br]integrated approach to really using 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 anxiety more as a strength and using food [br]to harness how we can feel better, I think 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 it'll help a lot of us. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 SG: I would like to imagine a world where[br]we just wouldn't have to take many of the 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 medications that we take. I mean, I'm a[br]doctor, you're a doctor, there's a role, 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 but we spend $4 trillion on health care,[br]and an increasingly large amount of that 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 is on prescription drugs. Food is the only[br]signal we give the inside of our body from 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 the outside world on a daily basis and it[br]can be therapeutic. It can make us feel 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 better, and I just really, really love[br]the work that you do, Dr. Naidoo. I really 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 admire it. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 UN: Thank you so much. Thank you for[br]having me back, it's always great to talk 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 to you. You always have fascinating[br]questions, I love it. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 SG: We talked for a long time, Dr. Naidoo[br]and I, and she goes into even more depth 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 in this connection between diet and[br]anxiety in her new book, which is coming 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 out in December. As I've told her, it's[br]an idea that I find really fascinating. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 It makes sense that food affects our[br]bodies. It also affects our brains, and 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 it does so quickly, so it makes total[br]sense that it would affect our mental 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 health as well. Food is more than just [br]calories; it's a signal. It's a message. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 It affects more than your weight and [br]whether you have a flat stomach or not. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Food can be a medicine. It can help stave[br]off disease, manage our moods, help us 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 think more clearly. So, chew on that the[br]next time you want to feel smarter, or 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 calmer. Next time on Chasing Life, we have[br]a very special episode for you. We're 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 going to be talking about the frightened[br]brain. What happens when we get scared, 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 and why do some people like feeling that[br]way? Who better to answer those questions 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 than the king of horror himself: Stephen [br]King. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Stephen King: Everything is out to get[br]you. You see, that's the dark side of the 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 imagination. But, the good side of it is[br]that you're able to take reasonable 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 precautions and watch out for either [br]Coronavirus, or Jason in the Friday the 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 13th movies. They both go together. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 SG: Thanks for listening. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Chasing life is a production of CNN Audio.[br]Our podcast is produced by Eryn 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Mathewson, Madeleine Thompson, David Rind,[br]and Grace Walker. Our senior producer and 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 show runner is Felicia Patinkin. Andrea[br]Kane is our medical writer, and Tommy 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Barbarian is our engineer. Dan Dzula is[br]our technical director, and the executive 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 producer of CNN audio is Steve Lickteig. [br]Special thanks to Ben Tinker, Amanda Sealy 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 and Nadia Kounang of CNN Health.