#rC3 - Public service, public value

Wikipaka preroll music

Bernd: Imagine a world where the sum of
all knowledge is accessible for anyone.

Knowledge is being presented in so many
different ways, some of it is text, and

you can easily access and skim through it,
some of it you have to see and some of it

you have to touch and experience. We're
having this remote experience today. Right

now, I'd love to be in Leipzig with you,
work together with you. But we can't

because times are crazy and the digital
world at least makes it possible to gain

knowledge in a different way. And of
course, we at Wikimedia Deutschland, we

see that and we try to provide good
content for everyone. We try to help the

community of the wiki-sphere, of the
wikiversum, like in the Wikidata community

and the Wikipedia community or Wikimedia
Commons and so many more projects, to

access great sources to make it work in
different contexts. To be able to remix

knowledge, to put it to good use and to
reach an audience worldwide. It's been 20

years now and Wikipedia has started
without much photos, and there is even a

debate going on whether photos and images
are a good for the Wikipedia because text

you can easily edit and anyone can do it.
But photos and videos, there's a whole

different approach and there's a whole
more skills to or other sets of skills to

be able to access and to edit it. And that
makes it harder to renew stuff and to

adapt it. But also to create it and the
communities and the volunteers in the

wikisphere, they are sometimes having a
hard time to get good CGIs, for example,

or to get good graphics to make those, to
make beautiful articles and to make good

shows. They are not always available. It
costs money. The studio, the equipment and

the graphics they are producing. And
there's already a lot of money spent on

producing that kind of content, and we
want to bring that to good use in

Wikipedia and in the other spheres. We
have been reaching out or we have been

approached by the community to reach out
to the public broadcasters. And that's

what we did. And this is our journey. And
I want to go on this together with you, a

little bit of recap and then a way of you
to help us with that mission and to also

reach out and bring good content into the
public sphere to really be able to help

others, to help educators in these crazy
times. And, yeah, together make the sum of

all knowledge available to anyone in
different ways. Not only text, but also

videos like this one. So the talk is
called "Public service, public value", and

that subline is "When Stars Collide".
There's a reason for that. You know, I

could talk now about how stars are going
around each other and they attract each

other and then they come together and
there's a bang and sometimes there's a

neutron star and shooting all kinds of
crazy stuff out of it, which we can then

measure here on earth. I could also show
you this video, and I think the video

provided here, it was NASA content, would
be a much better way to approach this

knowledge. And the beautiful thing about
this, not only because it's good stuff

coming out of it and which matches the
talk, but also that the NASA content is

not copyright protected, most of it,
because it's provided by a federal agency

and there is the US copyright law. But
also the ESA, the European Space Agency,

it also now provides content under a
public, under an open license, which can

be adapted. So we had a big publicly
funded agency, the ESA, which produced

good content, scientific content, which
could be used to or could be put to good

use. And they decided to adapt Creative
Commons licensing to adapt open licenses,

so that people could do good stuff with
it. And that's what we wanted the public

broadcasters to do as well, which was not
an easy task. But we had great experiences

and cooperations and we're working together
now really good. The public broadcasters

in Germany are having a budget of about
eight billion euros per annum, and they

make content available online. Well, you
can access it. You can't really download

most of it. You cannot remix it, which is
a problem for educators because remix is

like a standard case, everyday case for
teachers. I used to be a teacher. I took

screenshots, put them on papers and built
little quizzes out of old stuff or not

used a whole broadcast, but parts of it.
And that's not really how I can use public

broadcast most of the time, because it has
all rights reserved and I can just use it

in a noncommercial manner. And there lies
the first problem. What is noncommercial?

When I'm teaching in a public school, ok.
But when I'm teaching in the afternoon

to in kind of overtime paid by the hour to
help a student privately or when I'm having

a blog or a website and there's
advertisements on that to pay the fees for

the hosting. Is this or do I then monetize
the content or if there's a private

partnership and the sponsoring there of
putting it in student paper and publishing

it and then selling the student paper
because they're printing stuff costs, is

this then monetarized? Is this commercial,
is it not? So there's a whole can of worms

right there. So the content that's
provided by the public broadcasters bottom

line is not usable for anyday use and not
usable for Wikipedia, at least not for

remix and republishing issues. That's
bad. And that's especially when there's

8 billion euros every year going into those
public broadcasters. That should be

something we should engage in. Now we
approach them, and in most cases, when you

approach the lawyers of the public
broadcasters, they say, well, we'd like if

you use that content, but if you are
asking me for permission to use that

content in that specific context, I have
to say no. If you are, if you ask me, I

have to say no. And this is a bullshit
situation right there. I mean, you have

someone who provides good, nonfictional
content, which should be used for

educational use. He wants it to be used in
that way. There's an educator who wants to

use it in that way. But we can't come
together because of licensing policies.

And now it's legally right, but it still
feels wrong. And we could, other than

piracy, we can do something about it. I
mean, the content. The public broadcasters

provide their editorially independent, so
they may be publicly funded, but the

politics stay out of way of the editorial
process. So there may be some in the

supervisory boards. And there's as a whole
debate going on about that in Germany, for

example. But the editors are free and
there's good content produced and content

you can trust on. Content where there's a
whole set of producers behind it who fact

check and who, if they make a mistake,
make it right again. The public

broadcasters are not for profit. And they
want to provide public content as they

call it a public value. And I think we can
help with that. We have this beautiful big

platform where anyone who's searching for
information lands at some point, whether

he's approaching it via speech assistance,
which is then asking Wikipedia or Wikidata

for information, or whether he just puts
it into a search box and then finds it and

accesses, for example, the text in
Wikipedia. The content can be reused in

all kinds of manners because it is public,
it is openly licensed. Most likely...

there's a whole range of licenses you can
choose, we choose the most open licenses

for Wikipedia. That's a community
decision. CC-BY, CC-SA or even CC0. I

won't go too deep into that. But you just
have to remember, you can use that

content, you can remix it, you can put it
into another content. You always have to

name the source of it. If it's not zero,
you always have to name the source. And if

you edit it, you have to make that
visible. Yeah, but the content provided by

the public broadcasters in this case, the
ARD which is a public broadcaster in

Germany, is, of course, provided with all
rights reserved. So you can't do a lot with

it. You can access it still. It's good
stuff. And there's a lot of years in the

mediathek in the end, and YouTube and
stuff. But there is potential. I'll show

you why. We had a campaign then, it was
called public money, public content. You

may see where this is coming from. And we
approached the public broadcasters to work

together on this. This was the same
argument I just made here to you. In every

step of the way, we worked together with
the community and with the awesome people

of Wiki loves broadcast. And we are...
I'll come back to that in a minute... so

first, some public broadcasters in this
case funk, which is a cooperation between

the two big public broadcasters in
Germany. They are for producing content

for young people and younger audiences and
they try to like summarize Wikipedia

pages, which is a problem for the
community, because I say, well, it's nice

if you summarize it, but if the article
changes, can we then change the video? No,

video editing is more expensive and you
have to have certain programs for that and

skills that fewer people have. So there's
a smaller community to do it. So that's

not content we really can use in
Wikipedia. Although the videos were quite

high quality, they were rejected by the
Wikipedia community. We came together in

best faith, but this just didn't work out
as it sometimes does. Next try was to

provide pictures of people. In this case,
there was reportage, a portrait of an

actor or actress in this case. And they
put that in Wikimedia Commons so that it

could be used, for example on Wikipedia
and it was used in several pages and also

on pages all over the Internet, always
with a little mark that the content was

provided by the public broadcaster, which
is fine. But community or some community

members said, well, this photo is well too
good to be publicly licensed, so there's a

whole other can of worms and another
problem right there. We overcame that with

a great pilot project, which I want to
talk about right now. And if you're

listening in a public broadcaster working
together with public broadcasting

somewhere in the world, you should now be
very interested. Because what we achieved

here is openly licensed content being
reused on all sorts of sites. We cannot

track everything, but we can track what we
already did, like in the mediathek, in the

channels of the ZDF and on the YouTube
channels and stuff. We can see how often

this content was approached and was
used. We can track how much it was used in

Wikipedia and how often it was clicked on.
And we can guess because it has been

published as well because provided under
free and open license on Schulserver and

stuff like that - so on networks for
schools and on servers that provide

educational content. And we can see that
it's being adapted there and that the

communities, the educational community
really wants to do things with it and is

putting it to good use. How much? Come to
that in a minute. First, the ZDF started

with climate and environmentally connected
content and provided a material from there.

So they came together with the producers,
the editors, with everyone involved

in the process, and they
said - in cooperation with us, we also

gave some hints maybe: We cannot give the
whole episode of takes, which is big,

beautiful and very expensive and has a lot
of third party content into the public

domain or into licenses openly. It's just
too expensive and not really... we cannot

really do that. But there is
some content inside these episodes which

is built or which is produced completely
in-house, which we can target and which we

can buy the licenses for without straining
our budget too much. So videos, CGIs,

short pieces that are being produced
anyway. They just have to be licensed

under a CC license as well and then uploaded
to Wikimedia Commons. So this was the

way to go for the ZDF and for the TerraX
team. And they did it and they put a lot

of videos there, which was then adopted by
the community, the Wikipedia community. So

the ZDF didn't do any editing in the
Wikipedia, they just gave their input,

their content to the Commons, and then
there was good stuff happening by the

community. They adapted it and put it into
mostly German speaking because, of course,

it's German videos, German speaking
Wikipedia, German language Wikipedia

articles, also some English Wikipedia
articles. But there was also another

beautiful thing happening, as you can see
right here. They also did, they started to

do read-ups because they saw it's good,
it's high quality content. We can build

upon that. We can remix it and we can read
of it in Dutch, in Welsh, in Esperanto,

and we can put subtitles on there in Latin
and in Dutch and Catalan and in Spanish.

So. This content is now free and is
evolving, and it's good, high quality,

nonfictional, mostly scientific content
that helps the Wikipedia communities to

further reach their audience, to help
provide knowledge to everyone, even if

you're maybe visually impaired or mentally
impaired or you just don't want to read

a long text right now because your head is
buzzing and there's not enough coffee in

the world. And you can just watch a video
to maybe grasp the idea of this specific

article or this paragraph there a little
better. It's another way of providing

information and it works together like a
charm. And we can see that also by the

numbers on which those files are
approached, so we tried first to do a page

view analysis, so we took all the content
we monitored: In which sites is the content

implemented in or embedded in? And then
tried to measure the viewership of the

pages, which didn't really work, because
there was - and now it's over - 120 files

and we cannot really reproduce that. And
we also tried to do a media view counter,

which also then strained at some point -
it exceeded the limitations of the tools

we were having to measure that as soon as
the files were too many. So we could like

add a direct comparison of files, how
they're performing, how they're doing, but

we couldn't really track all of them. So
then a great colleague of mine, he built

this beautiful mediaviews too, so that you
can really monitor a whole category. So we

can now monitor how often the files in the
category of TerraX provided videos - you

see the shot links right there,
bit.ly/terrax30 - the last 30 days of his

of TerraX content from Wikipedia Commons.
And we can see a monthly usage of over a

million views, which is a lot. Because
this is not just someone randomly browsing

and finding this video and it's auto
play. But searching for information on a

topic like as Taj Mahal or like the Harbor
of Carthago or something like that. Or

covid vaccine. And then they're clicking
on the article, they're clicking on the

video and view it and this is a very
qualified account right there. And this

happens over a million times with content
that the ZDF has provided now. Every

month. And still growing. And that's good
in several ways. First, it's great for the

community because they can more easily
reach the audience and they can help the

audience understand the topic better. It
makes Wikipedia more beautiful for the

audience. Of course. We just talked about
that. And also for the content provider

because, of course, the content is
branded. There's a little logo in there

and it's called "video is provided by
TerraX". I have stated the brand a few

times now. And of course, anyone who uses
it has to quote the ZDF and give

attribution, which is good for the brand
and it makes it more likely that at some

other point when you're searching for
information on the topic, you'll be

circling back to TerraX, for example,
and hopefully to Wikipedia. But there's

more. We have done some high level
roundtables where we brought together

unions, teachers unions, as well as
journalist unions, as well as young

journalists, people who work in research
and universities, library organizations

and, of course, the Wikipedia community,
to see how we better can work together and

what we can do and how we can monitor it
and what is likely to be done and what

not. Because, of course, also the public
broadcasters have wishes for the community

and for Wikimedia Deutschland and as well
as the other way around. Our main

arguments here are that it improves the
public good. It saves taxes. If schools,

public schools don't have to buy
additional video content, for example, but

can use the content that is already
publicly funded for free. It strengthens

the cooperation between different spheres
of making knowledge available. And it's

further helping them reaching the audience
on exactly the platforms that they're

searching for on, that they're searching
for information on. So, as I said, our

campaign was called "public money, public
good". And there were some reactions and

we had some great cooperations coming up
then. At this point I have to thank all

the stakeholders as a part of the
campaign. Not only the Chaos Communication

Club, Chaos Computer Club, but also the
libraries association, the teachers

associations in Germany and Kiron
University and some others that you can

see there. If you're a stakeholder on an
international level and want to join this

claim for more content provided by the
public broadcasters, reach out to me,

[e-mail], and we can
talk about it or maybe after that in the

Q&A. So we wrote a lot of letters. There
were 10000 little postcards being sent to

the public broadcasters where anyone could
put a little comment. I want to use that,

because ... And there were a lot of
educators, teachers and knowledge workers

who reached out to us and said, finally, I
want to use or have used in a limited way

the content already. And there's so much
more and so much better stuff I want to do

with it. I want to screenshot it and put
it on the paper and then build a Quiz out

of it, whatever. And there are the
limitations of copyright and the Creative

Commons licensing makes it easier for me.
Also, the idea is a second... or another

really big public broadcaster in Germany
also tried to adapt Creative Commons

licensing. They did, even with their most
important broadcasts like Tagesschau,

which is the news broadcast for every German.
They are providing graphics and short

videos under a Creative Commons NC ND and
so none for commercial and no variations

of stuff. So at least it is available
indefinitely now. So it can be linked upon

and it can be used in certain ways,
especially in schools. But you cannot

release it in a Wikipedia right now. They
also put some podcasts like the

coronavirus update, which is like one of
the most listened to podcasts right now, a

scientific podcast here in Germany under
CC license, which is also a great step.

And there's a reason why they are hesitant
to put content under a more open license,

not only because of licensing issues and
because of the money you have to pay for

it, but also in fear of... there's some
uses they don't want. In our experience,

though, we see that on the ZDF content.
There's a lot of good stuff happening with

it. And none of the fears were matched,
none of the fears really came true. There

are adaptations and there are read-ups,
but they are good. They are in the way we

would have wanted it. And sometimes you
just have to take a leap of faith and see

good stuff happening. Right. As of right
now, so licensing policies and the public

broadcasters, they make... so the bad
stuff is happening anyway, people will

steal it, will adapt it, will put little
horns on people's heads and whatever, and

they don't really care about copyright,
which also would not be possible with

Creative Commons, because there's
limitations to that licensing given with

Creative Commons and putting it in a
context where it's not right is one of

those limitations. But whatever. But
Creative Commons makes the uses you want

to give, you want to make possible,
available. And that's all very much

cheaply. And there will be stuff coming
out from the idea, I hope. As of now,

there is the chair of the ARD, of the big
public broadcast in Germany, and they say

it's a cornerstone. It's an important
building block on which where, how to make

our content available indefinitely as
possible and easily accessible as

possible. Even this press release, though,
you see on the photo right there, there's

all rights reserved. This is copyrighted
content, which I quote here. So way to go.

But there's good stuff. There's good
faith. I have good faith. And there's a

lot of goodwill on all institutions. And
we're working together to that common

goal. There's also a global task force of
public broadcasters and they're saying: We

share the common duty to inform, educate
and entertain. The engagement with

audiences of all ages across all ranges of
broadcast and online services is critical

to our success in serving them whenever,
wherever and however they want. And to

reach that, dear public broadcasters all
around the world, whether you're the NPR,

the NHK, the PBS, the BBC, the RAA, CBC,
EBC or ORF.. Your content should be freely

licensed, wherever possible. It should be
paid fairly. It should be accessible

everywhere and it should be accessible any
time. And then we can build upon it. And

there's all kinds of good stuff shooting
out of it. And we can measure that now.

So our mission is clear. And there's a lot
of good people working together on all sides

to make it possible, and I have to thank
all the partners that we have been doing

great stuff up until now and will be doing
great stuff in the years to come. And the

community, who is open for adapting the
content and putting it to good use on

different Wikipedia pages. And if you're a
public broadcaster and you think, well, I

want that, I want a part of that. Feel
free to reach out to us and we will make

and bring this thing international. Our
arguments condensed are there at

bit.ly/publicbroadcast on the medium block
of the Wikimedia Foundation where we're

trying to commodate this whole talk into a
few paragraphs. Thank you for listening,

for attending this session here. And I'm
very happy to take your questions now. And

to gather, free, more great content to
build amazing stuff out of it.

Thank you very much.

Herald: We are now connected to our
speaker remotely. Not by satellite, just

like the usual public broadcasting studios
do, but via Internet, because we are

modern. With Bernd Fiedler, who is our
correspondent today, more or less. Hello

Bernd, how are you today?
Bernd: Hello. I'm fine, and I hope you all

as well. You've heard a lot and I hope you
have some questions for me.

Herald: We're still waiting for questions.
You can still ask them by the IRC or

Twitter with the hashtag #rC3Wikipaka.
We're listening to all of them and will

relay them to our speaker here. You had an
interesting slide at the end of your talk,

towards the end of your talk, with Tom
Buhrow, who was stating something along

the lines of "CC licenses are an important
part of what the public broadcasting

institutions in Germany are doing." And at
the very bottom right - you made me aware

of that, I didn't even see it first -
there was an "all rights reserved" clause.

That looks to me like there is a cultural,
cultural obstacles still to be surmounted,

to be surpassed. Is there any hope that
this cultural change is taking place?

Bernd: Yes.
Herald: OK, but it wasn't OK. How would

you say this?
Bernd: Well, it's really not easy. They

are buying licenses and then they can do
limited stuff with it, and they now have a

lot of contracts, and if you have a big
ship like, the ARD or the ZDF, you have

all kinds of standard contracts. And you
have to change those first before you can

do anything. So that's a chicken and egg
problem. They also say we can't because they

are not, the contracts are not there. So I
can't waive any rights. And the public

broadcasters say, well, they also wouldn't
agree to it. So we don't have the

contracts yet. But there's a big cultural
change going on right now. That's a lot of

effort and a lot of editors, a lot of
content creators who want to try out

stuff, who are reaching out to us. But it
takes time, because it's a big wheel we're

trying to turn here and big wheels take
time to start turning.

Herald: Well, 2020 has taught us to be
patient and wait for changes, but there

might be some people in the audience who
don't want to wait. And what you told me

about these standard contracts sounds
awfully familiar for people who work with

public administrations, who are facing
similar problems with subcontractors and

people they depend upon. And one way that
has been shown in that realm would be to

provide boilerplate licenses that the
institutions can actually use and reuse.

Has anybody tried that?
Bernd: Yeah, well, they are using Creative

Commons right now, but... I think - what
exactly do you mean with boilerplate

licenses?
Herald: Yeah, of course. I mean, Creative

Commons is, of course, a boilerplate
license for sublicensing. But you told me

about, as far as I understand, that the
public broadcasting institutions use

subcontractors to actually produce their
content. And they would have to enter

contracts and new licenses that permit
sublicensing under Creative Commons

clauses. So if somebody, let's say
Wikimedia or some other instance, were to

provide the public broadcasters with
boilerplate licenses for their

subcontractors, wouldn't that be an
option?

Bernd: Uh, if we...
Herald: Not to want you to drop the hot

potato in your lap, but...
Bernd: We can't look that far into the

contract business of the public
broadcasters and their subcontractors. But

this is exactly what we had with TerraX in
the end. So they have, they are having

subcontractors. And at the very beginning
of the process, of the broadcasting

process and production process, they said,
well, let's try this and we will take some

stuff and release it under creative
comments. Are you all right with that? In

an ongoing production and most contracts
are already set and you always go back to

the same contractor - you can't really do
that. That's, that's hard. You just, you

need an outside impulse for that. And
that's where the audience comes into play,

because I bet all of you have a loved
podcast or some broadcast that you see at

the public broadcasters and you want
to bring to the Commons or content you

want to bring to the Commons. And of
course, you can reach out as it is a

broadcaster. You can reach out to the
Redaktion and say, we want to do that and

we want to see that in the Commons. Why
isn't it? And then they have to ask the

legal people and the legal people then
sometimes consult with us and then we can

try to do something. So it's big wheels,
but many, many small angles where you can

attack.
Herald: That sounds like a call to action

for me. People who are watching right now
are listening right now. Where would they

direct such a question? Would they add ZDF
or add ARDPresse or whatever on Twitter,

or is there any way that is more
impactful? Maybe send a fax or something

like that?
Bernd: You know what? Do that right now,

during this Q&A, you can add ARDPresse or
ZDF to do just that. And there are people

there watching that and watching it. And
the more impulses there are, the more

likely they will be moving. But also a
standard email. They operate like every

Programmbeschwerde, every input from audiences
is being read at the public broadcasters

offices. So just type an email and say, I
love your content. Why isn't it Creative

Commons? Cheers, and there you go. This
helps us a lot. And it helps the people

inside the houses, inside the public
broadcasters who really want get things

going. But there are also the ones who
say: We don't really need to change that,

do we? But you and us, we have to show
them that the future lies in Creative

Commons licensing and not just getting on
with not providing open content and

deleting stuff that is good and that could
have been reused if only it would have

been licensed correctly.
Herald: OK, so we are not screaming into

the void, but we have allies within the
broadcasting authorities that really want

our help, actually, is that true?
Bernd: It is. And there are a lot of

people doing the hard work. I mean, my job
is easy. I'm sitting at the outside and

saying, why don't you, why couldn't you,
oh that would be a good idea. And they are

confronted with all the people who know
the ifs and whens and who always say "no,

because" and they're finding reasons why
this shouldn't be possible. But we are now

going on from the production level because
the content providers, they want their

products and their content to be remixed.
We also gain from the political level

because that's important for the public
broadcasters, obviously. And we are going

on from the Intendanten, so from the chair
level. I mean, everyone working at the ARD

and the ZDF, there is a little bit... if
they try something new, they can fail and

they can get smacked over the head with
people who are angry at them. Because

there are so many angry people out there who
attack the broadcasters all the time. And

if they see that it works at one public
broadcaster, like at the ZDF, it's very much

more likely that another public
broadcaster will also try. That's a trial,

that course of action.
Herald: Well, this is...

Bernd: a little bit "Beamtenmikado"
Herald: That's very close to your heart

because, I mean, we do have our WTFalpha
night program and we would have loved to

include Bernd das Brot in that. So for all
the people who are right now composing

tweets at ZDF...
Bernd: copyrighted...

Herald: Well, maybe in the future and
maybe we're depending on all the people

composing tweets right now at ZDF, for all
the activists who do have experience with

mass mailing members of parliament, they
actually know that mass mails that follow

a template are, well, not as not as
impactful as individual letters. So is it

a detriment if they include in the in
their tweet, the ÖGÖG hashtag or any other

campaign mode?
Bernd: the German slogan for "public

money, public content" - "öffentliches
Geld, öffentliches Gut", ÖGÖG. Yeah, well,

you can do that. So we can we can monitor
it a little bit and see who else is

interested in that. You can also reach out
to the Wiki loves broadcast group in

Wikipedia. They're a group of activists
who have experience in that and who are

standing by to help public broadcasters
understand the Wikipedia and to see

whether and where the content fits. So
there's a lot of ways to engage in that.

And if you have ideas for that or just
questions, you can reach out to me any

time. You have my address. That's
mediumarticle@wikimediafoundation or you

can just write me
[e-mail]. And yeah, I'm

happy to help. Yes, that's good stuff. We
want to have it in the public domain.

Let's make it possible together. I need
help.

Herald: That sounds like a call to action
in the background chat that we have

before we went live, you mentioned
something about big, did you say the big

gulf of material that's already been
produced and is in the kind of legal

limbo, that it's not so easily released
right now. Can you talk a little bit more

about that?
Bernd: I think I misunderstood the

question of the...
Herald: I mean, we have a similar

situation in the United States with the
works that have been published after the

1920s, where copyright law has been made
more stringent and original creators can't

be contacted anymore.
Bernd: Yeah, we have two courses of action

that the public broadcasters are trying
right now. I mean, if you if you're

sitting on a treasure box, you want to
open it up and share it. If it doesn't get

less, that's where... so the idea is
trying to provide content that they

already have produced, but clearing the
rights for that stuff that's already is

produced is a pain in the ass. And it's
really hard and sometimes impossible to

reach every creator who was connected with
a production. So everything that's in the

past is kind of lost for our goal for
Creative Commons license, especially stuff

that's being produced and that has been
released after 1970 or so. So they are

opening up the archives and that's really
a treasure for Wikipedia. They can then

link to it and they can at least access it
indefinitely. But the other course of

action seems to me much more sustainable -
to see in which new productions from now

on we can implement Creative Commons
licensing and so that we can only look and

walk into the future here. Although I'd
love to see all the good stuff I've been

seeing on the air already, too, to become
Creative Commons, but that's really hard.

Herald: Well, not to end on a dystopic
note, but to go forth with the utopias,

there is a way to to open at least the
future releases. And you've shown

us how to do that. And we thank you. I
mean, we are the unofficial public

broadcasting cosplay channel at rC3. So
anybody who's interested in having more

interesting night program for future
programing, please contact Bernd. Bernd,

thanks again so much for being on air
right now with us and keep up the good

fight in the name of the love of public
broadcasting.

Bernd: I'm counting on you. See you soon.
Herald: See you, bye Bernd!

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