Hans Rosling: You can't use media if you want to understand the world.

DR Nyheder: You can't use media if you want to understand the world. If you believe that most of the world's population is very poor, that their girls don't go to school, and that they are trying to escape to the rich countries, you don't know how the world works.

Based on the reports on migration, a flow
of refugees puts Europe under pressure,

so that you get the impression
that the world ...

Excuse me, what did you say
was wrong with Europe?

Europe is in a refugee crisis.

- Did you say under pressure?
- Yes?

- There is no pressure.
- No pressure?

That's what Merkel
and your prime minister are saying.

This remains to be seen,

but it is a part of the world
with a lot of resources.

And then you have to decide
how much you will or won't help.

I am not naive, I won't get involved
in the political debate.

But it surely hasn't been
that many refugees,

compared to the amount
Europe could admit.

And the next question is
if you want to or not.

And this is a political question.

But with the population increase
that is happening in Africa, for example.

One prognosis says there will be
four billion Africans in 2100.

Europe will be under pressure.

No. This will open
export opportunities for Europe.

There will be enormous chances
for Danish companies to export goods.

This is a promising economic future

and the bosses
of the big companies can see it.

The banks see it, too.
People are investing in Africa now.

But a part of Africa
belongs to the poorest of all.

It's like this,

the bottom billion needs support.

But these ones have come a long way.
They don't need support.

They need a fabric factory
where they can work.

They can build furniture
or Danish designs.

They will contribute
to the world's economy.

But the image you are painting,
based on facts and statistics,

isn't this something
that can be abused politically?

We have seen in many countries

that even statistics
can be interpreted politically.

I am not talking about statistics.
I am talking about reality.

I am not talking about statistics.

They are like the transmission
in the car that you are driving.

I'm talking about reality,
the real people that exist

and what they do.

I am saying that most girls
in this world attend school.

One of ten doesn't go to school,
or one in seven doesn't go to school.

This is not statistics.
It's about girls.

There's this notion
that numbers are something else.

It's exactly like money.
Money is an opportunity, a resource.

if you want to understand the world,
you have to grasp the order of magnitude.

And strangely enough,
the big company bosses understand it.

Novo – there's a fantastic Danish
pharmaceutical company.

They don't just export into the richest
countries, but the whole way down.

They need Danish medication
all the way to here.

This policy works superbly for them.

Open yourself up
with newly developed drugs

that you can sell to the whole world.

I understand what you are saying,
but from a media perspective,

not just here, but the media in general,

so many media report
about the present state of the world.

And right now that's war, conflict,
chaos, riots and many negative ...

No. No, no, no. That's just wrong.
Straight out wrong.

There was a fantastic election in Nigeria,

a democratic election
in Africa's largest nation.

A mediocre government was replaced
with a very competent leader,

Mohamed, the new one, who received support
from the entire population.

There was a fantastic election
last year in Indonesia.

Look at the progress India has made.

Yesterday, India declared
it was free of tetanus.

But Nigeria is in a terror war
with Boko Haram.

Yes, a small part of Nigeria.
Not the rest.

Nigeria has a fast economic growth
and decreasing child mortality.

If you choose to only look
at my shoe instead of at me,

and it's an ugly shoe,
that's just a part of me.

You see a different part
if you choose to show my face.

You show a little part
and call it the world.

It is important to show the big changes,
that girls go to school,

that children receive vaccines,
that most people have electricity at home,

that humans are able professionals
all over the world.

That's important to show,

but that change happens so slowly
that it doesn't show up in the news.

But can you not argue that
the negative focus of media on stories

that you say is only
a part of the big picture

is helping to start a positive development

because it makes politicians
and volunteer organizations

want to improve the situation?

You can't use media
if you want to understand the world.

You have a point there!

You need a basic school education.

And then, you have to follow up
on some basic facts.

That's why we have more than media.
Books are published about this.

We have other resources
for further education and training.

You need to have a view
on the world that's correct.

If you believe that the larger part
of the world's population is very poor,

that the girls don't attend school,
that children are not vaccinated,

and that they are trying to get

into these rich countries as refugees,

then you don't have a clue.

You have to understand that
there are countries of all levels,

and that most of them
are somewhere in the middle.

They go to school, they are vaccinated,
and they have two-child families.

You mentioned population growth.

The number of children on Earth
has stopped rising.

The number of children on Earth
has stopped rising,

because most people
are using contraceptives.

And Danish journalists didn't know this
when I asked them.

You talked to my colleagues.

They would do well to learn it!

I can see the fire in your eyes,
because this is a big story.

What have we missed?

No clue.

You have to be critical.

Everybody has to be critical,
from time to time,

and think about
what they are doing.

You people do a lot of things well.

You give a great insight into people.

You have a great way
to convey feelings.

But with facts ...

You are good
with facts of concrete events,

But you are bad at the big picture.

What we have learned in school
is not being updated.

What we learned when we were 15 or 20
stays with us for our whole life,

and it's no good,
with the changes we see today.

You have said that there's a mix
of ignorance and arrogance.

How does arrogance play into this?

There is a kind of notion that India
won't become like Europe.

I often use a video called

"The magical washing machine".

There are many in Europe

who cannot imagine that every family
in the world would have a washing machine.

Yet at the same time,
they are using a washing machine.

I talked to environmentalists

who are very involved
in protecting the environment

and stopping climate change,
which is what I want, too.

I am just as involved as they are.

But they say: Not everybody
can have a washing machine and car.

Maybe they don't have a car themselves,
but they do have a washing machine.

You can't say:

"You can't have a washing machine,
but I'll have one."

A world like that won't work,

and therefore we have to make
smart washing machines

that use less water and energy,
and environment-friendly chemicals.

And the bosses of the largest
washing machine factories get that.

They say: We'll make
smarter washing machines.

We will make them cheaper.

We will have iPhone washing machines,
as smart as a mobile phone.

But isn't that a long-term thought?

If you look at how the world's riches
are distributed,

you can still see an enormous difference

between the small, rich, old
and mostly Western world and the rest.

This is the image the media draw up.

You are totally wrong!

Thanks! How am I wrong?

It's wrong because the people on Earth
who can take a plane on their holidays,

the ones on this economic level,

about half of them
lives in the Western world.

There is no big difference,
that what I'm saying,

most people live in the middle.

Here are the poorest,
they are like Denmark in 1850.

And over here,
it's like Denmark in 1950.

Denmark wasn't doing so bad then.

And these people live somewhere
in the middle.

And they are moving quite fast.

And you talk of them
like they weren't there!

This is just totally wrong.

There is a large center here,
similar to Denmark in the 20th century.

They have bikes, they have electricity,
they have two children,

they use condoms,
they are modern people,

but they earn low wages.

Many of them are good workers.

They would like to go abroad and earn
some more now that they're good workers.

How do you know that?
What do you base your knowledge on?

I am just using normal statistics
from the World Bank and the UN,

they are not controversial.

This is not a thing you can discuss,
I am right and you are wrong.