Jeff Wall in "Vancouver" - Season 8 | Art21

[ギター音楽]

ジェフ・ウォール: 情景です

いつもしていることです

あの情景を探す

被写体という人もいます

私は出発点と呼びます

同じことです

何かが現れてくる

例えば２００１年です
このドアを開けて外に出た時

何人かの人が荷物を引いて歩いているのが見えました

カメラを持っていたら写真を撮ったでしょう

けれど持っていなかった

出来事を再現する必要がありました

２ブロック歩いたところで空と弧を描く高架橋が見えました

”ここだ”と思いました

それまでこのようなことをしたいと思ったことは
一度もありませんでした

偶然だったんです

この偶然により新しい発想が生まれました

何か絵を ー

例えば北斎の”駿州江尻”を見ていたとします

すぐに これは再現できるぞと思いつきます

何かが起きるのを待たねばなりません

そして何かが起こった時にはやるしか無い

牛乳パックを持っていて

何かの拍子で撒き散らしてしまう

起こり得る話です

みんなミルクをこぼしたことがあります
ただ 私はより洗練された方法で

こぼれているのを見せているだけです

[柔らかな電子音楽]

生まれた時からこの街を知っています

人生のほとんどをこの街で過ごしました
そういう人は街が好きか もしくは ー

憎んでいるか

多くのことを知っている

多くのことがあった
だから私もバンクバーに複雑な思いを抱いています

ここで仕事をするということは
そういった感情と折り合いをつけることだと感じます

ある瞬間でどちらの感情が勝るかは
全くもって予測できません

私の作品がそういったものを含んでいると思いたいものです

♪ ♪

いまだになぜ自分が絵描きにならなかったのかわかりません不思議です

１９６４年頃 私が１９か２０歳の時に絵をやめました

６０年代の半ばは概念芸術のような
オルタナティブアートが爆発的に発生した時期でした

どういうわけか当時のバンクーバーは
その風潮にピッタリはまっていたんです

だから転向しました

スタジオ持ちの絵描きをやめたんです

スタジオは１５歳の時に手に入れたものでした
他のことに挑戦したかったんです

写真に真剣に取り組むことになったのは
未知の手法に可能性が宿っているとわかったときです

サイズに関係がありました

写真のサイズが大きくならない
技術に問題はないように思えました

[機械音]

so there are qualities that are revealed in
photography when it gets larger.

[Indistinct chatter]

After having seen some advertisements backlighted,
I thought,

"OK.

I'll try "the backlighted.

"It's kind of interesting.

It has a kind of luminosity that's really
different."

So then I just started using it, and it worked.

It created an object, and the object was sort
of, you know, emphatic.

There's no real rules about–for me at least–

how I should proceed, so sometimes, I build
replicas…

but when you start building a replica,

it can get really exciting and technically
interesting and artistically very absorbing

to make that thing.

[Jeff Wall] Where are you looking?

— My hand, my thumb.

[Jeff Wall] Look at Andrew's face.

Now.

Yeah, that's it.

Just like that.

Oh, that's good.

Hold it.

Go.

Stop.

Go.

Stop.

Nothing in my pictures is fake.

Everything that you see happening is really
happening.

— Action.

[Camera clicks, flash pops]

Good one.

[Camera clicks, flash pops]

Good.

There's really no difference between capturing
a gesture by accident and capturing a gesture

by design,

so it's not really possible to have fakery
in photography, not really.

♪ ♪

I don't think it's very easy to practice any
art form very well,

so there's no reason why photography should
be easy.

It's easy to click the shutter.

— But they're gonna do a whole run-through first.

So I need you guys on your marks just to
double-check all the marks before we start.

[Jeff Wall] But bringing things together, however you
do it,

is always difficult because the standards
are high.

— You're standing in a way that doesn't
make you look very tough.

— OK.

— Make yourself look like someone who's ready
to do something bad.

—OK.

[Jeff Wall] I think working with performers, it's always
very collaborative.

—Look it yourself if you want to see yourself
up close.

[Jeff Wall] They always give me things that I didn't even
know I wanted from them.

— Looks good out here.

— You look like a sculpture by Michelangelo
right now.

[laughs]

— Which is great.

— Action.

[Camera clicks] Good.

Let's do another one.

Ready… action.

[Jeff Wall] I've learned that in order to do what I like
to do I need to have an open-ended schedule.

It could take 5 days, could take 10 days,
it could take 20 days.

I don't really know.

You can shoot hundreds of pictures of the
same thing, and one of them's always different

from all the others.

It just is the way it goes,

and that picture discloses something that
wasn't in the plan.

It was based on things I'd seen from the bringing
of a person under the control of others to

a place,

and you see that all over the news.

That doesn't happen till discussion has come
to an end, and so I added something.

He talks.

And the second thing that happens is the other
one listens.

Neither of those things is likely to happen
in that situation.

Talking is great in photography because it
can't be captured.

It's the elusive element,

and that shows you the limits of the art form
you're in.

I love that about it.

It always escapes.

[strumming acoustic music]

Pictures can never narrate.

They can only imply a narrative,

but they can never deliver it.

So what happens is when the viewer's having
that experience what they're really doing

is writing the story.

They're intuiting a narrative for themselves,

which not be the same narrative for everybody.

Well, the title of that picture is "Daybreak
on an Olive Farm in the Negev, Israel."

The picture included the Bedouin farm workers,
the olive grove,

and one of the biggest prisons in Israel.

So it was a great subject of many things.

Some sleeping under the stars, who were probably
poor,

and others sleeping in incarceration.

Who knows what they are,

and there could be thousands of them there.

Probably I identify with those kind of people
in some way,

and I think I identify with all the people
I photograph in some way.

So I think artistically a subject has no connection
to the viewer unless the picture creates the

connection by its artistry,

by its beauty.

So let's say you come into the gallery and
you see a picture of a homeless person

and you experience it in a way you hadn't
experienced it before

because you hadn't seen it in that picture
before.

Then you will know that the beauty of that
picture was caused by that person somehow,

and as soon as you realize that that subject
can cause that experience,

you've changed your own relation to that subject.

That's the social value of art, that it does
that not by convincing you of anything,

telling you you should do this, but by giving
you an experience or creating an experience

that itself,

yeah, alters something.

♪ ♪

The mainstream of my work has been a kind
of realism because it's devoted to contemplating

photography as a phenomenon,

but I don't want to be obliged to a be a reporter
all the time,

even a pseudo reporter.

Works of pictorial art have to be something
that can be looked at endlessly.

Supposing it flashed into my mind this image
of the ocean for no reason.

Like a daydream or a moment of imagination.

When you have flashes like that, they only
last just an amazingly short time,

and they're gone, but you remember them.

They set off a photographic possibility.

For me, there's something
called a picture

that is there all the time.

♪ ♪

I'm always searching for that
picture, the next one.

♪ ♪

[soft electronic music]