A radical plan to end plastic waste
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0:01 - 0:04Chris Anderson: So, you've been
obsessed with this problem -
0:04 - 0:06for the last few years.
-
0:06 - 0:08What is the problem, in your own words?
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0:08 - 0:09Andrew Forrest: Plastic.
-
0:10 - 0:11Simple as that.
-
0:11 - 0:18Our inability to use it for the tremendous
energetic commodity that it is, -
0:18 - 0:20and just throw it away.
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0:21 - 0:24CA: And so we see waste everywhere.
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0:24 - 0:26At its extreme, it looks a bit like this.
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0:26 - 0:29I mean, where was this picture taken?
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0:29 - 0:30AF: That's in the Philippines,
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0:30 - 0:33and you know, there's a lot of rivers,
ladies and gentlemen, -
0:33 - 0:35which look exactly like that.
-
0:35 - 0:36And that's the Philippines.
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0:36 - 0:37So it's all over Southeast Asia.
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0:38 - 0:40CA: So plastic is thrown into the rivers,
-
0:40 - 0:42and from there, of course,
it ends up in the ocean. -
0:43 - 0:47I mean, we obviously
see it on the beaches, -
0:47 - 0:49but that's not even your main concern.
-
0:49 - 0:53It's what's actually happening to it
in the oceans. Talk about that. -
0:53 - 0:55AF: OK, so look. Thank you, Chris.
-
0:55 - 0:56About four years ago,
-
0:56 - 1:00I thought I'd do something
really barking crazy, -
1:00 - 1:04and I committed to do a PhD
in marine ecology. -
1:04 - 1:08And the scary part about that was,
-
1:08 - 1:10sure, I learned a lot about marine life,
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1:10 - 1:12but it taught me more about marine death
-
1:12 - 1:18and the extreme mass
ecological fatality of fish, -
1:18 - 1:20of marine life, marine mammals,
-
1:20 - 1:23very close biology to us,
-
1:23 - 1:27which are dying in the millions
if not trillions that we can't count -
1:27 - 1:29at the hands of plastic.
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1:29 - 1:33CA: But people think of plastic
as ugly but stable. Right? -
1:33 - 1:36You throw something in the ocean,
"Hey, it'll just sit there forever. -
1:36 - 1:38Can't do any damage, right?"
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1:38 - 1:45AF: See, Chris, it's an incredible
substance designed for the economy. -
1:45 - 1:49It is the worst substance possible
for the environment. -
1:49 - 1:52The worst thing about plastics,
as soon as it hits the environment, -
1:53 - 1:55is that it fragments.
-
1:55 - 1:58It never stops being plastic.
-
1:58 - 2:00It breaks down smaller
and smaller and smaller, -
2:01 - 2:03and the breaking science on this, Chris,
-
2:03 - 2:06which we've known in marine ecology
for a few years now, -
2:06 - 2:08but it's going to hit humans.
-
2:08 - 2:11We are aware now that nanoplastic,
-
2:11 - 2:16the very, very small particles of plastic,
carrying their negative charge, -
2:16 - 2:19can go straight through
the pores of your skin. -
2:19 - 2:21That's not the bad news.
-
2:21 - 2:25The bad news is that it goes
straight through the blood-brain barrier, -
2:25 - 2:28that protective coating which is there
to protect your brain. -
2:28 - 2:32Your brain's a little amorphous, wet mass
full of little electrical charges. -
2:32 - 2:35You put a negative particle into that,
-
2:35 - 2:39particularly a negative particle
which can carry pathogens, -
2:39 - 2:43so you have a negative charge,
it attracts positive-charge elements, -
2:43 - 2:45like pathogens, toxins,
-
2:45 - 2:46mercury, lead.
-
2:47 - 2:50That's the breaking science
we're going to see in the next 12 months. -
2:50 - 2:53CA: So already I think you told me
that there's like 600 plastic bags or so -
2:53 - 2:57for every fish that size
in the ocean, something like that. -
2:57 - 3:00And they're breaking down,
-
3:00 - 3:02and there's going to be ever more of them,
-
3:02 - 3:05and we haven't even seen the start
of the consequences of that. -
3:05 - 3:07AF: No, we really haven't.
-
3:07 - 3:10The Ellen MacArthur Foundation,
they're a bunch of good scientists, -
3:10 - 3:12we've been working with them for a while.
-
3:12 - 3:14I've completely verified their work.
-
3:14 - 3:17They say there will be
one ton of plastic, Chris, -
3:17 - 3:19for every three tons
of fish by, not 2050 -- -
3:19 - 3:24and I really get impatient with people
who talk about 2050 -- by 2025. -
3:24 - 3:25That's around the corner.
-
3:25 - 3:27That's just the here and now.
-
3:27 - 3:31You don't need one ton of plastic
to completely wipe out marine life. -
3:31 - 3:34Less than that is going
to do a fine job at it. -
3:34 - 3:38So we have to end it straightaway.
We've got no time. -
3:38 - 3:43CA: OK, so you have an idea for ending it,
and you're coming at this -
3:43 - 3:45not as a typical environmental
campaigner, I would say, -
3:45 - 3:49but as a businessmen,
as an entrepreneur, who has lived -- -
3:49 - 3:52you've spent your whole life thinking
about global economic systems -
3:52 - 3:54and how they work.
-
3:54 - 3:55And if I understand it right,
-
3:55 - 4:02your idea depends on heroes
who look something like this. -
4:02 - 4:03What's her profession?
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4:03 - 4:07AF: She, Chris, is a ragpicker,
-
4:07 - 4:10and there were 15, 20 million
ragpickers like her, -
4:10 - 4:15until China stopped taking
everyone's waste. -
4:15 - 4:19And the price of plastic,
minuscule that it was, collapsed. -
4:19 - 4:21That led to people like her,
-
4:21 - 4:25which, now -- she is a child
who is a schoolchild. -
4:25 - 4:27She should be at school.
-
4:27 - 4:29That's probably very akin to slavery.
-
4:29 - 4:32My daughter Grace and I have met
hundreds of people like her. -
4:32 - 4:36CA: And there are many adults as well,
literally millions around the world, -
4:36 - 4:37and in some industries,
-
4:37 - 4:39they actually account
for the fact that, for example, -
4:39 - 4:42we don't see a lot
of metal waste in the world. -
4:42 - 4:43AF: That's exactly right.
-
4:43 - 4:46That little girl is, in fact,
the hero of the environment. -
4:46 - 4:50She's in competition with
a great big petrochemical plant -
4:50 - 4:51which is just down the road,
-
4:51 - 4:54the three-and-a-half-billion-dollar
petrochemical plant. -
4:54 - 4:55That's the problem.
-
4:55 - 4:59We've got more oil and gas
in plastic and landfill -
4:59 - 5:03than we have in the entire oil and gas
resources of the United States. -
5:03 - 5:05So she is the hero.
-
5:05 - 5:08And that's what that landfill looks like,
ladies and gentlemen, -
5:08 - 5:11and it's solid oil and gas.
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5:11 - 5:14CA: So there's huge value
potentially locked up in there -
5:14 - 5:19that the world's ragpickers would,
if they could, make a living from. -
5:19 - 5:20But why can't they?
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5:21 - 5:25AF: Because we have ingrained in us
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5:25 - 5:29a price of plastic from fossil fuels,
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5:29 - 5:33which sits just under what it takes
-
5:33 - 5:37to economically and profitably
recycle plastic from plastic. -
5:37 - 5:42See, all plastic is
is building blocks from oil and gas. -
5:42 - 5:46Plastic's 100 percent polymer,
which is 100 percent oil and gas. -
5:46 - 5:48And you know we've got
enough plastic in the world -
5:49 - 5:50for all our needs.
-
5:50 - 5:52And when we recycle plastic,
-
5:52 - 5:56if we can't recycle it cheaper
than fossil fuel plastic, -
5:56 - 5:59then, of course, the world
just sticks to fossil fuel plastic. -
5:59 - 6:01CA: So that's the fundamental problem,
-
6:01 - 6:05the price of recycled plastic
is usually more -
6:05 - 6:10than the price of just buying
it made fresh from more oil. -
6:10 - 6:11That's the fundamental problem.
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6:11 - 6:14AF: A slight tweak
of the rules here, Chris. -
6:14 - 6:16I'm a commodity person.
-
6:16 - 6:23I understand that we used to have
scrap metal and rubbish iron -
6:23 - 6:26and bits of copper lying
all round the villages, -
6:26 - 6:28particularly in the developing world.
-
6:28 - 6:30And people worked out it's got a value.
-
6:30 - 6:33It's actually an article of value,
-
6:33 - 6:35not of waste.
-
6:35 - 6:38Now the villages and the cities
and the streets are clean, -
6:38 - 6:42you don't trip over scrap copper
or scrap iron now, -
6:42 - 6:46because it's an article of value,
it gets recycled. -
6:46 - 6:51CA: So what's your idea, then,
to try to change that in plastics? -
6:51 - 6:53AF: OK, so Chris,
-
6:53 - 6:57for most part of that PhD,
I've been doing research. -
6:57 - 7:00And the good thing about being
a businessperson who's done OK at it -
7:00 - 7:02is that people want to see you.
-
7:02 - 7:03Other businesspeople,
-
7:03 - 7:07even if you're kind of a bit of a zoo
animal species they'd like to check out, -
7:07 - 7:10they'll say, yeah, OK,
we'll all meet Twiggy Forrest. -
7:10 - 7:12And so once you're in there,
-
7:12 - 7:13you can interrogate them.
-
7:13 - 7:19And I've been to most of the oil and gas
and fast-moving consumer good companies -
7:19 - 7:21in the world,
-
7:21 - 7:24and there is a real will to change.
-
7:24 - 7:26I mean, there's a couple of dinosaurs
-
7:26 - 7:28who are going to hope
for the best and do nothing, -
7:28 - 7:30but there's a real will to change.
-
7:30 - 7:32So what I've been discussing is,
-
7:32 - 7:35the seven and a half billion
people in the world -
7:35 - 7:39don't actually deserve to have
their environment smashed by plastic, -
7:39 - 7:44their oceans rendered depauperate
or barren of sea life because of plastic. -
7:45 - 7:46So you come down that chain,
-
7:46 - 7:50and there's tens of thousands of brands
which we all buy heaps of products from, -
7:50 - 7:54but then there's only a hundred
major resin producers, -
7:54 - 7:56big petrochemical plants,
-
7:56 - 7:59that spew out all the plastic
which is single use. -
7:59 - 8:00CA: So one hundred companies
-
8:00 - 8:02are right at the base
of this food chain, as it were. -
8:02 - 8:04AF: Yeah.
-
8:04 - 8:07CA: And so what do you need
those one hundred companies to do? -
8:07 - 8:11AF: OK, so we need them
to simply raise the value -
8:11 - 8:14of the building blocks of plastic
from oil and gas, -
8:14 - 8:17which I call "bad plastic,"
-
8:17 - 8:18raise the value of that,
-
8:18 - 8:22so that when it spreads through the brands
and onto us, the customers, -
8:22 - 8:26we won't barely even notice
an increase in our coffee cup -
8:26 - 8:29or Coke or Pepsi, or anything.
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8:29 - 8:31CA: Like, what, like a cent extra?
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8:31 - 8:33AF: Less. Quarter of a cent, half a cent.
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8:33 - 8:36It'll be absolutely minimal.
-
8:36 - 8:38But what it does,
-
8:38 - 8:42it makes every bit of plastic
all over the world an article of value. -
8:42 - 8:46Where you have the waste worst,
-
8:46 - 8:48say Southeast Asia, India,
-
8:48 - 8:50that's where the wealth is most.
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8:50 - 8:52CA: OK, so it feels like
there's two parts to this. -
8:52 - 8:56One is, if they will charge more money
-
8:56 - 9:00but carve out that excess
-
9:00 - 9:04and pay it -- into what? --
a fund operated by someone -
9:04 - 9:07to tackle this problem of -- what?
-
9:07 - 9:10What would that money be used for,
that they charge the extra for? -
9:10 - 9:13AF: So when I speak
to really big businesses, -
9:13 - 9:17I say, "Look, I need you to change,
and I need you to change really fast," -
9:17 - 9:19their eyes are going
to peel over in boredom, -
9:19 - 9:22unless I say, "And it's good business."
-
9:22 - 9:24"OK, now you've got my attention, Andrew."
-
9:24 - 9:27So I say, "Right, I need
you to make a contribution -
9:27 - 9:29to an environmental
and industry transition fund. -
9:29 - 9:31Over two or three years,
-
9:31 - 9:33the entire global plastics industry
-
9:33 - 9:37can transition from getting
its building blocks from fossil fuel -
9:37 - 9:39to getting its building
blocks from plastic. -
9:39 - 9:41The technology is out there.
-
9:41 - 9:42It's proven."
-
9:42 - 9:45I've taken two multibillion-dollar
operations from nothing, -
9:45 - 9:48recognizing that
the technology can be scaled. -
9:48 - 9:53I see at least a dozen technologies
in plastic to handle all types of plastic. -
9:53 - 9:56So once those technologies
have an economic margin, -
9:56 - 9:58which this gives them,
-
9:58 - 10:02that's where the global public
will get all their plastic from, -
10:02 - 10:03from existing plastic.
-
10:03 - 10:08CA: So every sale of virgin plastic
contributes money to a fund -
10:08 - 10:10that is used to basically
transition the industry -
10:10 - 10:13and start to pay for things
like cleanup and other pieces. -
10:13 - 10:15AF: Absolutely. Absolutely.
-
10:15 - 10:17CA: And it has
the incredible side benefit, -
10:17 - 10:19which is maybe even the main benefit,
-
10:19 - 10:20of creating a market.
-
10:20 - 10:23It suddenly makes recyclable plastic
-
10:23 - 10:28a giant business that can unlock
millions of people around the world -
10:28 - 10:30to find a new living collecting it.
-
10:30 - 10:31AF: Yeah, exactly.
-
10:31 - 10:35So all you do is, you've got fossil
fuel plastics at this value -
10:35 - 10:37and recycled plastic at this value.
-
10:37 - 10:39You change it.
-
10:39 - 10:41So recycled plastic is cheaper.
-
10:42 - 10:45What I love about this most, Chris,
is that, you know, -
10:45 - 10:50we waste into the environment
300, 350 million tons of plastic. -
10:50 - 10:53On the oil and gas companies own accounts,
-
10:53 - 10:55it's going to grow to 500 million tons.
-
10:55 - 10:57This is an accelerating problem.
-
10:57 - 11:01But every ton of that is polymer.
-
11:01 - 11:05Polymer is 1,000 dollars,
1,500 dollars a ton. -
11:05 - 11:09That's half a trillion dollars
which could go into business -
11:09 - 11:12and could create jobs and opportunities
and wealth right across the world, -
11:12 - 11:14particularly in the most impoverished.
-
11:14 - 11:16Yet we throw it away.
-
11:16 - 11:19CA: So this would allow the big companies
to invest in recycling plants -
11:19 - 11:21literally all over the world --
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11:21 - 11:22AF: All over the world.
-
11:22 - 11:24Because the technology
is low-capital cost, -
11:24 - 11:27you can put it in at rubbish dumps,
at the bottom of big hotels, -
11:27 - 11:28garbage depots, everywhere,
-
11:28 - 11:30turn that waste into resin.
-
11:30 - 11:31CA: Now, you're a philanthropist,
-
11:31 - 11:34and you're ready to commit
some of your own wealth to this. -
11:34 - 11:36What is the role of philanthropy
in this project? -
11:36 - 11:40AF: I think what we have to do
is kick in the 40 to 50 million US dollars -
11:40 - 11:42to get it going,
-
11:42 - 11:44and then we have to create
absolute transparency -
11:44 - 11:47so everyone can see
exactly what's going on. -
11:47 - 11:51From the resin producers
to the brands to the consumers, -
11:51 - 11:53everyone gets to see
who is playing the game, -
11:53 - 11:56who is protecting the Earth,
and who doesn't care. -
11:56 - 11:58And that'll cost about
a million dollars a week, -
11:58 - 12:01and we're going to underwrite
that for five years. -
12:01 - 12:04Total contribution is circa
300 million US dollars. -
12:04 - 12:05CA: Wow.
-
12:05 - 12:06Now --
-
12:06 - 12:11(Applause)
-
12:11 - 12:15You've talked to other companies,
like to the Coca-Colas of this world, -
12:15 - 12:18who are willing to do this,
they're willing to pay a higher price, -
12:18 - 12:20they would like to pay a higher price,
-
12:20 - 12:21so long as it's fair.
-
12:21 - 12:23AF: Yeah, it's fair.
-
12:23 - 12:26So, Coca-Cola wouldn't
like Pepsi to play ball -
12:26 - 12:29unless the whole world knew
that Pepsi wasn't playing ball. -
12:29 - 12:30Then they don't care.
-
12:30 - 12:33So it's that transparency of the market
-
12:33 - 12:36where, if people try and cheat the system,
-
12:36 - 12:38the market can see it,
the consumers can see it. -
12:38 - 12:40The consumers want a role to play in this.
-
12:40 - 12:42Seven and a half billion of us.
-
12:42 - 12:44We don't want our world smashed
by a hundred companies. -
12:44 - 12:47CA: Well, so tell us, you've said
what the companies can do -
12:47 - 12:49and what you're willing to do.
-
12:49 - 12:50What can people listening do?
-
12:50 - 12:52AF: OK, so I would like all of us,
-
12:52 - 12:54all around the world,
-
12:54 - 12:57to go a website called noplasticwaste.org.
-
12:57 - 12:59You contact your hundred resin producers
-
12:59 - 13:00which are in your region.
-
13:00 - 13:02You will have at least one
-
13:02 - 13:06within an email or Twitter
or a telephone contact from you, -
13:07 - 13:12and let them know that you would like them
to make a contribution to a fund -
13:12 - 13:15which industry can manage
or the World Bank can manage. -
13:15 - 13:18It raises tens of billions
of dollars per year -
13:18 - 13:23so you can transition the industry
to getting all its plastic from plastic, -
13:23 - 13:24not from fossil fuel.
-
13:24 - 13:26We don't need that.
That's bad. This is good. -
13:27 - 13:29And it can clean up the environment.
-
13:29 - 13:30We've got enough capital there,
-
13:30 - 13:33we've got tens of billions
of dollars, Chris, per annum -
13:33 - 13:35to clean up the environment.
-
13:35 - 13:36CA: You're in the recycling business.
-
13:36 - 13:38Isn't this a conflict of interest for you,
-
13:38 - 13:41or rather, a huge business
opportunity for you? -
13:41 - 13:43AF: Yeah, look, I'm in
the iron ore business, -
13:43 - 13:45and I compete against
the scrap metal business, -
13:45 - 13:48and that's why you don't have
any scrap lying around to trip over, -
13:48 - 13:50and cut your toe on,
-
13:50 - 13:51because it gets collected.
-
13:51 - 13:55CA: This isn't your excuse
to go into the plastic recycling business. -
13:55 - 13:57AF: No, I am going to cheer for this boom.
-
13:57 - 13:59This will be the internet
of plastic waste. -
13:59 - 14:02This will be a boom industry
which will spread all over the world, -
14:02 - 14:06and particularly where poverty is worst
because that's where the rubbish is most, -
14:06 - 14:08and that's the resource.
-
14:08 - 14:11So I'm going to cheer for it
and stand back. -
14:11 - 14:12CA: Twiggy, we're in an era
-
14:12 - 14:17where so many people around the world
are craving a new, regenerative economy, -
14:17 - 14:20these big supply chains,
these big industries, -
14:20 - 14:22to fundamentally transform.
-
14:22 - 14:24It strikes me as a giant idea,
-
14:24 - 14:27and you're going to need a lot of people
cheering you on your way -
14:27 - 14:28to make it happen.
-
14:28 - 14:30Thank you for sharing this with us.
-
14:30 - 14:32AF: Thank you very much. Thank you, Chris.
-
14:32 - 14:33(Applause)
- Title:
- A radical plan to end plastic waste
- Speaker:
- Andrew Forrest
- Description:
-
Plastic is an incredible substance for the economy -- but it's the worst substance possible for the environment, says entrepreneur Andrew Forrest. In a conversation meant to spark debate, Forrest and head of TED Chris Anderson discuss an ambitious plan to get the world's biggest companies to fund an environmental revolution -- and transition industry towards getting all of its plastic from recycled materials, not from fossil fuels.
- Video Language:
- English
- Team:
closed TED
- Project:
- TEDTalks
- Duration:
- 14:58
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Brian Greene edited English subtitles for A radical plan to end plastic waste | |
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Oliver Friedman edited English subtitles for A radical plan to end plastic waste | |
![]() |
Brian Greene edited English subtitles for A radical plan to end plastic waste | |
![]() |
Brian Greene edited English subtitles for A radical plan to end plastic waste | |
![]() |
Brian Greene edited English subtitles for A radical plan to end plastic waste | |
![]() |
Brian Greene edited English subtitles for A radical plan to end plastic waste | |
![]() |
Brian Greene edited English subtitles for A radical plan to end plastic waste | |
![]() |
Brian Greene edited English subtitles for A radical plan to end plastic waste |