Return to Video

How to foster productive and responsible debate

  • 0:01 - 0:03
    What if you own a hotel,
  • 0:03 - 0:06
    and one of the key principles
    in your mission statement
  • 0:06 - 0:09
    is a commitment to treat
    all employees and customers equally,
  • 0:09 - 0:13
    including on the basis
    of gender and religion?
  • 0:13 - 0:16
    And then a large group
    books an event at your space,
  • 0:16 - 0:18
    and when you look at the booking,
  • 0:18 - 0:20
    you realize that it's a religious group,
  • 0:20 - 0:21
    and one of their key principles
  • 0:21 - 0:23
    is that women should never leave the home
  • 0:23 - 0:26
    and should have no opportunities
    for professional development
  • 0:26 - 0:27
    outside of it?
  • 0:27 - 0:28
    What do you do?
  • 0:28 - 0:29
    Do you host the event
  • 0:29 - 0:31
    and get criticized by some,
  • 0:31 - 0:34
    or refuse and get criticized by others?
  • 0:34 - 0:37
    In my work, I counsel organizations
    on how to create rules
  • 0:37 - 0:41
    to navigate ideological disagreement
    and controversial speech,
  • 0:41 - 0:43
    and I defend my clients,
  • 0:43 - 0:47
    whether in court or from the government
    when their actions are challenged.
  • 0:47 - 0:50
    The structures I recommend
    recognize the real harms
  • 0:50 - 0:52
    that can come from
    certain types of speech,
  • 0:52 - 0:57
    but at the same time seek to promote
    dialogue rather than shut it down.
  • 0:57 - 1:00
    The reason is that we need disagreement.
  • 1:00 - 1:02
    Creativity and human progress
  • 1:02 - 1:03
    depend on it.
  • 1:03 - 1:05
    While it may be often easier
  • 1:05 - 1:07
    to speak with someone who agrees
    with everything you say,
  • 1:07 - 1:10
    it's more enlightening
    and oftentimes more satisfying
  • 1:10 - 1:12
    to speak with someone who doesn't.
  • 1:12 - 1:15
    But disagreement and discord
    can have real and meaningful costs.
  • 1:15 - 1:18
    Disagreement, particularly
    in the form of hateful speech,
  • 1:18 - 1:22
    can lead to deep and lasting wounds
    and sometimes result in violence.
  • 1:22 - 1:27
    And in a world in which polarization
    and innovation are increasing
  • 1:27 - 1:29
    at seemingly exponential rates,
  • 1:29 - 1:34
    the need to create structures for vigorous
    but not violent disagreement
  • 1:34 - 1:36
    have never been more important.
  • 1:36 - 1:40
    The US Constitution's First Amendment
    might seem like a good place to start
  • 1:40 - 1:41
    to go to look for answers.
  • 1:41 - 1:44
    You, like I, may have often
    heard somebody say
  • 1:44 - 1:48
    that some form of a speech restriction,
    whether from an employer, a website,
  • 1:48 - 1:50
    or even somebody else,
    violates the First Amendment.
  • 1:50 - 1:55
    But in fact the First Amendment
    usually has little if any relevance at all.
  • 1:55 - 1:58
    The First Amendment only applies
    when the government is seeking
  • 1:58 - 2:01
    to suppress the speech of its citizens.
  • 2:01 - 2:04
    As a result, the First Amendment
    is by design a blunt instrument.
  • 2:04 - 2:08
    A narrow category of speech
    can be banned based on its content.
  • 2:08 - 2:10
    Almost everything else cannot.
  • 2:10 - 2:13
    But the First Amendment has no relevance
  • 2:13 - 2:17
    when what we're talking about
    is a private entity regulating speech,
  • 2:17 - 2:18
    and that's a good thing,
  • 2:18 - 2:20
    because it means private entities
    have at their disposal
  • 2:20 - 2:24
    a broad and flexible set of tools
    that don't prohibit speech,
  • 2:24 - 2:28
    but do make speakers aware
    of the consequences of their words.
  • 2:28 - 2:30
    Here are some examples.
  • 2:30 - 2:31
    When you go to university,
  • 2:31 - 2:35
    it's a time for the free
    and unrestricted exchange of ideas,
  • 2:35 - 2:36
    but some ideas,
  • 2:36 - 2:39
    and the words used to express them,
    can cause discord,
  • 2:39 - 2:44
    whether it's an intentionally inflammatory
    event hosted by a student group,
  • 2:44 - 2:46
    or the exploration
    of a controversial issue in class.
  • 2:46 - 2:49
    In order to protect
    both intellectual freedom
  • 2:49 - 2:51
    and their most vulnerable students,
  • 2:51 - 2:55
    some universities have formed teams
    that bring speaker and listener together,
  • 2:55 - 2:59
    free from the possibility of any sanction,
    to hear each other's viewpoints.
  • 2:59 - 3:00
    Sometimes students don't want to meet,
  • 3:00 - 3:03
    and that's fine,
    but in other circumstances,
  • 3:03 - 3:07
    mediated exposure to an opposing view
    can result in acknowledgment,
  • 3:07 - 3:11
    recognition of unintended consequences,
    and a broadening of perspectives.
  • 3:11 - 3:13
    Here's an example.
  • 3:13 - 3:16
    On a college campus, a group of students
    supporting the Israelis
  • 3:16 - 3:20
    and those supporting the Palestinians
    were constantly reporting each other
  • 3:20 - 3:23
    for disrupting events,
    tearing down posters,
  • 3:23 - 3:25
    and engaging in verbal confrontations.
  • 3:25 - 3:29
    Recognizing that most of
    what the students were reporting
  • 3:29 - 3:31
    did not violate the university's
    disciplinary code,
  • 3:31 - 3:35
    the university invited
    both groups to sit down
  • 3:35 - 3:37
    in a so-called restorative circle
  • 3:37 - 3:39
    where they could hear
    each other's viewpoints
  • 3:39 - 3:42
    free from the possibility of sanction.
  • 3:42 - 3:43
    After the meeting,
  • 3:43 - 3:47
    the ideological disagreements between
    the groups remained as stark as ever,
  • 3:47 - 3:50
    but the rancor between them
    significantly dissipated.
  • 3:51 - 3:53
    Now obviously, this doesn't always happen,
  • 3:53 - 3:57
    but by separating reactions to speech
    from the disciplinary system,
  • 3:57 - 4:00
    institutions of higher education
    have created a space
  • 4:00 - 4:04
    for productive disagreement
    and a broadening of perspectives.
  • 4:04 - 4:06
    We're all biased.
  • 4:06 - 4:08
    I don't mean that in a bad way.
  • 4:08 - 4:10
    All of us are influenced, and rightly so,
  • 4:10 - 4:12
    by our family background,
    our education, our lived experience,
  • 4:12 - 4:15
    and a million other things.
  • 4:15 - 4:17
    Organizations too have influences,
  • 4:17 - 4:20
    most importantly the beliefs
    of their members,
  • 4:20 - 4:23
    but also the laws
    under which they are governed
  • 4:23 - 4:25
    or the marketplace in which they compete.
  • 4:25 - 4:29
    These influences can form a critical part
    of a corporate identity,
  • 4:29 - 4:32
    and they can be vital
    for attracting and retaining talent,
  • 4:32 - 4:35
    but these biases, as I'm calling them,
  • 4:35 - 4:36
    can also be a challenge,
  • 4:36 - 4:39
    particularly when what
    we are talking about
  • 4:39 - 4:42
    is drawing lines for allowing
    some speech and not allowing others.
  • 4:42 - 4:46
    The temptation to find speech
    harmful or disruptive
  • 4:46 - 4:48
    simply because
    we disagree with it is real,
  • 4:48 - 4:52
    but equally real is the harm that can come
    from certain types of expression.
  • 4:53 - 4:55
    In this situation, third parties can help.
  • 4:55 - 4:57
    Remember the hotel trying to decide
  • 4:57 - 5:00
    whether or not to allow
    the religious group to host its event?
  • 5:00 - 5:04
    Rather than having to make
    a complex, on-the-spot decision
  • 5:04 - 5:07
    about that group's identity and message,
  • 5:07 - 5:09
    the hotel could instead
    rely on a third party,
  • 5:09 - 5:11
    say, for example,
  • 5:11 - 5:13
    the Southern Poverty Law Center,
  • 5:13 - 5:15
    which has a list of hate groups
    in the United States,
  • 5:15 - 5:17
    or indeed even its own
    outside group of experts
  • 5:17 - 5:20
    brought together from diverse backgrounds.
  • 5:20 - 5:21
    By relying on third parties
  • 5:21 - 5:25
    to draw lines outside the context
    of a particular event,
  • 5:25 - 5:28
    organizations can make content decisions
  • 5:28 - 5:31
    without being accused of acting
    in self-interest or bias.
  • 5:32 - 5:34
    The line between facts
    and opinions is a hazy one.
  • 5:34 - 5:38
    The internet provides the opportunity
    to publish almost any position
  • 5:38 - 5:40
    on any topic under the sun,
  • 5:40 - 5:42
    and in some ways that's a good thing.
  • 5:42 - 5:46
    It allows for the expression
    of minority viewpoints
  • 5:46 - 5:48
    and for holding
    those in power accountable.
  • 5:48 - 5:50
    But the ability to self-publish freely
  • 5:50 - 5:53
    means that unverified
    or even flat-out false statements
  • 5:53 - 5:56
    can quickly gain circulation and currency,
  • 5:56 - 5:58
    and that is very dangerous.
  • 5:58 - 6:01
    The decision to take down a post
    or ban a user is a tough one.
  • 6:01 - 6:03
    It certainly can be appropriate at times,
  • 6:03 - 6:06
    but there are other tools
    available as well
  • 6:06 - 6:08
    to foster productive
    and yet responsible debate.
  • 6:08 - 6:11
    Twitter has recently started
    labeling tweets as misleading,
  • 6:11 - 6:12
    deceptive,
  • 6:12 - 6:15
    or containing unverified information.
  • 6:15 - 6:18
    Rather than block access to those tweets,
  • 6:18 - 6:21
    Twitter instead links to a source
    that contains more information
  • 6:21 - 6:23
    about the claims made.
  • 6:23 - 6:26
    A good and timely example
    is its coronavirus page,
  • 6:26 - 6:30
    which has up-to-the-minute information
    about the spread of the virus
  • 6:30 - 6:32
    and what to do if you contract it.
  • 6:32 - 6:34
    To me, this approach makes a ton of sense.
  • 6:34 - 6:36
    Rather than shutting down dialogue,
  • 6:36 - 6:38
    this brings more ideas,
  • 6:38 - 6:41
    facts and context to the forum,
  • 6:41 - 6:44
    and if you know that your assertions
    are going to be held up
  • 6:44 - 6:46
    against more authoritative sources,
  • 6:46 - 6:48
    it may create incentives
    for more responsible speech
  • 6:48 - 6:50
    in the first place.
  • 6:50 - 6:52
    Let me end with a hard truth.
  • 6:52 - 6:55
    The structures I've described
    can foster productive debate
  • 6:55 - 6:57
    while isolating truly harmful speech,
  • 6:57 - 7:00
    but inevitably some speech
    is going to fall in a grey area,
  • 7:00 - 7:02
    perhaps deeply offensive
  • 7:02 - 7:05
    but also with the potential
    to contribute to public debate.
  • 7:05 - 7:07
    In this situation,
  • 7:07 - 7:09
    I think as a general matter,
  • 7:09 - 7:12
    the tie should go to allowing
    more rather than less speech.
  • 7:12 - 7:14
    Here's why.
  • 7:14 - 7:15
    For one, there's always the risk
  • 7:15 - 7:18
    that an innovative
    or creative idea gets squelched
  • 7:18 - 7:20
    because it seems unfamiliar or dangerous.
  • 7:20 - 7:22
    Almost by definition,
  • 7:22 - 7:26
    innovative ideas challenge orthodoxies
    about how things should be.
  • 7:26 - 7:29
    So if an idea seems
    offensive or dangerous,
  • 7:29 - 7:30
    it could be because it is,
  • 7:30 - 7:33
    or it might simply be
    because we're scared of change.
  • 7:33 - 7:38
    But let me suggest that even if
    speech has little to no value at all,
  • 7:38 - 7:42
    that deficiency should be shown
    through open debate
  • 7:42 - 7:43
    rather than suppression.
  • 7:43 - 7:45
    To be very clear,
  • 7:45 - 7:48
    false speech can lead
    to devastating real-world harms,
  • 7:48 - 7:51
    from the burning of women
    accused of being witches in Europe
  • 7:51 - 7:52
    in the 15th century
  • 7:52 - 7:56
    to the lynching of African-Americans
    in the American South,
  • 7:56 - 7:57
    to the Rwandan Genocide.
  • 7:57 - 8:00
    The idea that the remedy
    for false speech is more speech
  • 8:00 - 8:02
    isn't always true.
  • 8:02 - 8:05
    But I do think more often than not
    more speech can help.
  • 8:05 - 8:09
    A famous story from First Amendment
    case law shows why.
  • 8:09 - 8:13
    In 1977, a group of Neo-Nazis
    wanted to stage a march
  • 8:13 - 8:16
    through the leafy, peaceful suburb
    of Skokie, Illinois,
  • 8:16 - 8:19
    home to a significant number
    of Holocaust survivors.
  • 8:19 - 8:22
    The City Council immediately passed
    ordinances trying to block the Nazis,
  • 8:22 - 8:24
    and the Nazis sued.
  • 8:24 - 8:27
    The case made it all the way
    up to the Supreme Court
  • 8:27 - 8:28
    and back down again.
  • 8:28 - 8:31
    The courts held that the Neo-Nazis
    had the right to march,
  • 8:31 - 8:33
    and that they could
    display their swastikas
  • 8:33 - 8:35
    and give their salutes while doing so.
  • 8:35 - 8:38
    But when the day for the march came,
  • 8:38 - 8:40
    and after all that litigation,
  • 8:40 - 8:41
    just 20 Neo-Nazis showed up
  • 8:41 - 8:44
    in front of the Federal Building
    in Chicago, Illinois,
  • 8:44 - 8:46
    and they were met
    by 2,000 counter-protesters
  • 8:46 - 8:49
    responding to the Nazis' messages of hate
  • 8:49 - 8:51
    with ones of inclusion.
  • 8:51 - 8:53
    As the Chicago Tribune noted,
  • 8:53 - 8:57
    the Nazi march sputtered
    to an unspectacular end after 10 minutes.
  • 8:57 - 9:01
    The violence in Charlottesville, Virginia,
    and indeed around the world
  • 9:01 - 9:03
    shows this isn't always
    how these stories end,
  • 9:03 - 9:06
    but to me the Skokie story is a good one,
  • 9:06 - 9:10
    one that shows that the fallacy
    and moral bankruptcy of hateful speech
  • 9:10 - 9:13
    can best be responded to
    not through suppression
  • 9:13 - 9:17
    but through the righteous power
    of countervailing good and noble ideas.
  • 9:17 - 9:19
    Thank you.
Title:
How to foster productive and responsible debate
Speaker:
Ishan Bhabha
Description:

more » « less
Video Language:
English
Team:
closed TED
Project:
TEDTalks
Duration:
09:32

English subtitles

Revisions Compare revisions