Cross cultural communication | Pellegrino Riccardi | TEDxBergen

This talk was given at a local TEDx event, produced independently of the TED Conferences.

Pellegrino Riccardi, being a cross cultural expert, is sharing with us his personal and professional experience about how very different cultures can successfully coexist next to each other. Is it difficult to live in Norway, being an expat? Do you know how to establish the mutual understanding between Italian and Norwegian?

Pellegrino comes form both an English and an Italian background, and is currently living in Norway. For the past 27 years he has travelled around the world and interacted with countless different cultures, nationalities and people-types. His work philosophy is to work with what you enjoy and what you are passionate about, what you believe you can excel in and are prepared to work hard to be excellent at, and only work with what can bring about positive change in yourself and in other people.

It's really great to be in Bergen,
this is the second time this week.

I live in Oslo, I guess
I'm living in the wrong place.

(Laughter)

As you quite rightly say, my name
Pellegrino, which is my first name,

means 'pilgrim'.

It was given to me by my Italian parents.

It is as if they knew what I was going
to do for the rest of my life.

"Let's give him the name 'pilgrim',
then he'll travel the world."

That's basically what I did.
This is my workplace.

I do a lot of travelling.

I can give you a fancy title of what I do,

but what I really do is I try
to help people communicate better,

especially in the global business world.

So I try to help people communicate better
with other nationalities.

You know, the first thing
you think of when you work

with other nationalities
and cross-cultural communication,

is "Let's look at the other cultures."

I take a slightly different approach,

I say to people,
"Take a look at yourself."

I am going to talk a lot about perception

because it's all about perception
and understanding what people see.

As you see, I have Italian in me,
I have a lot of British in me.

Some people are often surprised
by my English accent,

it's quite nice, isn't it?

Because you weren't expecting this,

you are expecting me
to speak with an Italian accent.

I don't speak like that. (Laughter)

And I've been in Norway
for over a third of my life actually,

so I've got a lot
of Norwegian in me as well.

What I like doing to people

is I have these little social experiments
to test their perception of me.

As I said, I travel a lot,
so I like playing with the airlines.

I like going up to the airlines
and talk in English,

or sometimes with an Italian accent,

to see what kind of reactions I get,
and English is the best one.

If you want a good service,
you speak English like I do.

It's fantastic. People take you seriously.
Well, they do, you know.

I mean, yesterday,
the plane to Bergen was late.

If I go up and say, "Excuse me,
it's 30 minutes late,

I'm a punctual person,
I don't like being late,"

they just take you seriously.

But yesterday I thought
I'd try in an Italian accent. (Laughter)

So I went up, and I actually said,

"Excuse me, but the plane
is 30 minutes late,

I'm a punctual person, you know."
(Laughter)

Exactly! I got the same reaction
as you did there.

(Laughter)

This is one of the problems
when working with other nationalities:

people see what they want to see,
they don't always see what you see.

And this is one of the challenges.

Just before we get into it,
culture, let's look at culture.

My definition of culture

- I know this doesn't cover everything,
but let's keep it simple,

I usually do two day workshops on this,
I've got 18 minutes -

"a system of behaviour that helps us act
in an accepted or familiar way".

Key word there: accepted or familiar.

We're basically doing things

which are accepted in our social group
and which are familiar.

So a lot of my work is actually
explaining Norwegian behaviour

to other nationalities.

I'm constantly looking for this sort of,

"Can we describe
a Norwegian in a nutshell?"

I think I found it - I found
this fantastic text on the Internet,

I want you to read it,
it's really worth reading.

"If you were to use a colour to describe
this person, he'd have to be green.

He lives in isolation in his home, a place
he best describes as 'his' and 'cosy'.

However, he is not the most receptive
of people when it comes to visitors."

The typical Norwegian.

"He is somewhat primitive,
but he is honest, straightforward,

all he really wants in life are the simple
little pleasures like peace and quiet."

Do you recognize any of this?

There are some key words -
can you see that?

They jump out at you.

And OK, it's a stereotype,
but a lot of this is a bit true.

I show this to Norwegians,
and they kind of nod,

"Yeah, OK. I'll give you that one."

Then I surprise them:

this is a description not of a Norwegian,
but of a Hollywood film star.

Yeah! Would you like to know who it is?

There it is.
Is that person there. (Laughter)

The point about this is you often believe
what people tell you as well.

I could sit there and tell you
this is a Norwegian, and you believe it.

It's not a Norwegian at all;

although maybe this could be a Norwegian
that is going off to this house,

but there are many words in there
which are accepted and familiar.

Another accepted and familiar thing
about Norwegian life

is the Norwegian forest;
I live in the Oslo area, it's all forest.

Working across borders is basically
not accepting completely

that your assumptions
are the assumptions of others.

I mean that's logic;
you know, common sense.

The Norwegian forest is a good thing,
isn't it, Norwegians in the room?

It's all good, it's fresh air, nature,
elks, skiing, it's fantastic.

That's what my wife thought the first time
my father visited us in Norway

because she thought
we would do something nice.

So my wife asked my Italian father,

"Would you like to go
for a walk in the forest?"

And my father looked at her
and said, "Why?"

(Laughter)

I had to explain to my wife
that if you say to another Italian,

"Hey, you and me,
we go for a walk in the forest,"

that means something else,
you don't do that. (Laughter)

But how can you know that?
How could you know that?

Accepted and familiar.

At the time, we went for a drive,
we went for a drive with my father,

and we are all looking at the same thing.

A beautiful Norwegian landscape.

And my father is taking photographs
that he wants to show his friends.

The road is kind of bumpy,
so he says to my wife,

"Could you slow the car down? Stop it,
I want to take a proper photograph."

My wife says, "But Mr. Riccardi,
there is nothing here."

He looks at her and says to her,
"I know. I've never seen nothing before."

(Laughter)

What was amazing with this
is we're looking at the same pictures

and using completely
different words to describe it;

this is the challenge
of working across borders.

We've got different ideas
of accepted and familiar.

Here is what is accepted and familiar
to me when I queue.

I was raised in the UK,

we're the world champions
of queueing, waiting in line.

And you know? We're fantastic.

If you're waiting in line
in a supermarket in the UK

- let's say there are
10 people waiting in line,

we all are getting a bit impatient
because we're all waiting in line -

and then they open a new cash register,
do you know what will happen in the UK?

The first four people won't move,
they'll stay in the queue.

The next six people will move
to the next cash register

in more or less the same order,
and they kind of check with each other.

If they open another cash register,
the same will happen.

It's like a formation dance,
it's fantastic.

Would the same happen in Norway?

No. What would happen if they shout
in Norwegian "Ledig kasse",

which is "Available cash register"?

What happens? Everybody goes for it.

It's first come, first served, isn't it?
Isn't that what is accepted and familiar?

The first time that happened to me,

I was shocked, and I said some
not very nice things about Norwegians.

(Laughter)

But, you know, you got to dig a bit deeper
to find out why Norwegians do that.

Why are they running
for that cash register?

Why is it a free for all
and first come, first served?

I think it has got to do with this.
"What?" they say.

This is the King of Norway
on a train in 1973,

that guy in a cap on the right.

This is equality,

and I think the queueing system
in Norway is all about equality.

First come, first served
is about equality,

and it's the ability
to dig under the surface

and find out what
the underlying values are.

That's how you know
how to communicate with people,

this equality is really
important in Norway.

It's the reason we're
so laid back with each other,

we don't bother with titles,
we dress casually,

it makes a fantastic business
environment actually, doesn't it?

But sometimes, it can take you
a bit by surprise,

and in those situations where you feel
uncomfortable or irritated,

we have a tendency to jump
to the negative conclusions

rather than the positive conclusions.

I travel all over the world

- and this is not
an advertisement for the airlines -

but it is Scandinavian Airlines,
and Lufthansa, and Singapore Airlines,

and everybody knows Singapore Airlines
has the best service - why?

Because they have a whole lot
more hierarchy in their societies.

Therefore, when they serve you,
they serve you,

and the Singapore Airlines staff
- if you ever been on their flight -

but from the moment they welcome you,
they look like they're going to serve you.

I mean, it's just the body language,
it's like, "Anything for you, sir."

Now, if a Scandinavian Airlines person
did this when you came on,

yeah, exactly, you would get
suspicious, wouldn't you?

What is going on? (Laughter)

Because it is not accepted
or familiar, that's it, you know.

This is what it's all about.

So this is how we do it.
And look at the space.

Space is important, nobody is touching.

If you go to somewhere like Finland,
that space becomes even more, can you see?

(Laughter)

It's fantastic. (Laughter)

Look at the way they queue in France.

It's nothing like the way
I'm used to queueing,

and it's different every day,
it's never the same.

And in some cultures, you need
a bit more motivation to stand in line.

This is my favourite one,
this is fantastic, look at this.

(Laughter)

Isn't that great?

They're all different.

We are all doing the same thing
in slightly different ways.

Now, how do you get across borders?
How do you navigate through this?

Because you can't learn
all the codes, it's impossible.

Here is a tip. This is what I'm really
passionate about - curiosity.

I am, have been, always will be
a curious person.

Curiosity gets you
through a lot of things.

I believe you can ask any question
to anybody just about anything,

provided you do it with curiosity.

That's it. Curiosity is a great thing.

Now, I've got three kids.

Kids are the most curious
creatures on the planet.

A recent survey - I can't believe this,
but I have to quote it -

apparently, 4-year-olds will ask
up to 390 questions per day.

82% of those questions will be
to mothers rather than fathers.

You know why?

When the kid goes to the father,
what does he say?

Go and ask your mother. (Laughter)

Curiosity is so important.

One of the most
difficult situations I had--

I was having a meal
in Helsinki, in Finland,

and I was sitting there,

and the thing is when we, Italians, eat,
we talk, we have to talk actually.

We eat and we talk, we eat and we talk.

We're not alone on that actually,
many cultures do that.

Finns, on the other hand,
don't have to talk.

They can talk, but they don't have to.

So, I'm sitting next to this Finn,

and I'm trying to be curious
and create a conversation,

and I thought, "OK, small talk."

The rules of engagement of small talk.

Rule number 1: ask a simple question.
Curious, simple question.

Rule number 2: listen to the answer,
pick out a word, follow up that word.

It's really simple actually.

So, I was there, this quiet Finn
was sitting next to me.

I turned to him, and I said,

"So, have you lived
in Helsinki all your life?"

He looked at me a little strange,
and he said, "Not yet."

(Laughter)

Moments like this

- you know, which word
do I follow up: 'not' or 'yet'? -

(Laughter)

challenge your curiosity,
but you've got to be curious,

it's really simple.

Do you know what it is
about the Nordic cultures?

It's all about economy of language.

Italians use loads and loads of words
to say very, very little actually.

In the Nordic countries,

it's different, it's the opposite;
minimum words, maximum message.

So, where I was raised, in the UK
- it is also lots of words, by the way -

look at this, "Excuse me,
may I just interrupt you for a second?"

That is 10 words.
That is way too many words.

The Norwegians manage
to do this in one word,

that's what I call economy of language.

What is the word?

Look at this. (Laughter)

Yeah. (Norwegian) "You?" That's it.

"Sorry for bumping into you like that,
terribly clumsy of me."

That is way too many words.
The Norwegians do it in one word.

Ready? There it goes: [Oi!]
Fantastic. (Laughter)

My favourite - and you know the answer -

"Sorry, I didn't quite catch
what you just said."

(Audience) Hæ?

Well-done. "Hæ?" One word.

The first time I heard that,
I just heard this, "Hæ?" (Laughter)

I've got three kids now going,
"Hæ?" "Hæ?" "Hæ?"

(Laughter)

But look beyond the negative side,
and look to the curiosity.

And this is it, we are often misperceived

because, on a serious note, this "Hæ?",
which I've heard many times,

doesn't often get perceived
very positively by other nationalities.

You get it, yeah?

Everyone has been
misperceived in their life.

The Dutch are often misperceived,

they complain a lot, they are
the world champions of complaining.

But why do they do it?

Because they are looking
for something better.

One way to do it is to complain and seek
a better result, that's often difficult.

I used to work with a guy
who was French - he is French -

I used to work with him,
his name was Yves.

Yves. Yves complained a lot as well.

He complained about everything,
and he questioned everything.

He had a fantastic mind.

I would come into work--

and once I came into work,
and I said to Yves, "Good morning!"

He looked at me and said, "Is it?"

(Laughter)

He was on that level, you know.

I've had my challenges too.

The biggest challenge I've had

living in Norway and trying to communicate
with my fellow Norwegians,

is, of course, feelings
and expressing feelings.

Where I come from, we express.

What I've learnt to do
- I've had to learn to do -

is kind of tone myself down actually
living in the Nordic countries, in Norway,

to tone myself down, keep it low,
keep it calm, because that works better,

which is often very, very difficult.

Another thing is rules,
I still find rules a little tricky.

I must admit
that is where I'm quite Italian.

These are people driving
into work in a town, in Norway;

they are following rules, can you see?

They are simple rules, the rules are:
keep between the lines

and don't use the lane over there,
- the public transport lane -

unless you're a bus, a taxi,
or an electric car; simple rules.

And look at this:

every single car manages to drive
between the lines, it's fantastic.

Now, this is a little clip that I took
this summer driving down to Italy.

This is a police car; that car
has nothing to do with the police car.

It's just a little, short clip,
but look at it.

I mean, would you do that in Norway?
You know you wouldn't.

This is another clip in France.

What they do - yeah, yeah, look -
what happens is that, you see, they drift.

I love that guy in the BMW,
the French guy is going,

"Left or right? I do not know yet.
I have not decided." (Laughter)

It's fantastic.

In some countries,
you can't even see the lines.

Where are the lines? Where are they?

I suggested once
to an Indian colleague of mine,

"Perhaps, if you painted
the lines more regularly,

people would follow the rules."

He said, "No, that would be
a waste of paint."

(Laughter)

That is why we have
traffic wardens in Norway.

This is a traffic warden in Norway
giving a ticket, a fine to this car.

Now, I'm just going to check.

You see, Norwegians know
these rules instinctively,

it's your duty to learn the rules,

but can I ask you why that car
is going to get a fine?

Too close to the zebra crossing there,
pedestrian crossing.

What is the minimum distance?

People mumbling '25'.

You know this stuff,
it's like a stupid question.

So the day I parked my car in Oslo...
let me just explain you what is going on.

The line goes under here
and then underneath the wheel,

this is no parking,
I was a little bit in a hurry.

My wife said to me, "I think you should
move your car forward a little bit."

I said, "Why?"

"Just move your car.
It's... you'll get a fine."

"Why?"

"Just... just, please, move your car."
(Laughter)

You could see she was
really uncomfortable,

and this irritated me, I thought,

"You know, I don't have
time for this. Let's go."

So I left.

OK - and this is especially
for the Norwegians in the room -

did I get a fine?

(Audience) Yes.

Do you feel sorry for me? No.
You get no sympathy. (Laughter)

No sympathy whatsoever.

It's a simple bloody rule,
follow the rules.

Italians believe that the power of speech,
the power of persuasion

is you most important tool in life.

We believe that you can appeal to people;

if you're good enough at appealing,
they might listen to you,

and they might find
an alternative solution.

So I believed that I could call
the Oslo Traffic Police

and talk my way out of the problem,
and I can see Norwegians doing this,

"Oh, no! You're wasting
your time. Don't bother."

No! I thought I would try.

I called the guy down at the Oslo Traffic,
"Hello, this is Pellegrino ..."

- by the way, I spoke English,
of course, not Norwegian,

because they take you more seriously -

"Hello, this is Pellegrino...
I'm referring to the case 78206."

"Yes, I have it in front of me here."

"I was just wondering
if we could be a bit flexible on this,

we're only talking about 20 centimetres,

I'm really sorry, I've learned my lesson,
I won't ever do it again."

Did it help?

Not at all.

To his credit, he was good,
he was really good.

I could hear him clicking,
he had all the rules,

he was saying, "I'm very sorry,
but the wheel must be inside the box.

(Laughter)

It says so here in the rule 5,
paragraph D."

He had all the answers in front of him.

Then he said something I'll never forget,

"Riccardi is your name,
you may be Italian.

You probably like football."
I said, "I do like football."

"Well, it's like football, you know.

The ball must be over the line,
the wheel must..." (Laughter)

But it's fantastic.

It was great. He had all the answers,
black and white, he had everything.

Fine.

I told my friend Yves this,
my friend Yves, the French guy,

who got really irritated.
- Remember Yves? "Is it?" -

He is really good at asking questions

and said, "OK, the wheel
must be inside the box.

What if I take the wheel off the car?
What would happen then?"

I thought that was really
interesting actually. (Laughter)

I called back and asked, "What would
happen if I took the wheel off the car?"

He didn't have an answer for me.
He couldn't answer that question.

Why not?

It's not an accepted
and familiar question,

and he doesn't have that approach.

Then you need the help of an Italian

because the time I parked
my car in Italy...

You see, I was looking for a parking place
on a holiday, impossible.

I see a traffic warden,
and I go up to her.

I start talking in Italian,
"Listen, I'm looking for a parking place."

She says, "There is a parking house nearby
but don't park your car there."

"Why not?"

She says, "It's too expensive. 40 Euro!"
(Laughter)

"Really? What should I do?"

She says, "I like you.
You seem like a nice fellow.

I like the way you talk Italian,
I'm going to help you today.

Park your car over there."

And she points over to this sign
and says, "Go and park car over there."

(Laughter)

"Come on, I can't..."

"It's OK, it's not dangerous.
Park your car there.

Don't pay 40 Euro in the parking house.
Park your car over there.

I give you a fine for 30 Euro,
you save yourself 10 Euro."

(Laughter)

I'm not here to discuss
whether it's right or wrong,

but what I can tell you is that I get it.

I get it because I've got it inside me.

I've seen this before, and I accept it,
and I can see the positive elements.

You see, these three cultures
I have inside me.

Just to finish off, this is
what I'm passionate about:

I've got three cultures inside me,

they're all very different,
they are planets apart,

they really are, in certain aspects.

But you know what I try to do daily,
especially with my kids?

I try to take the best of all three

and try to merge them into one new culture
where you take the best of all three.

Across borders isn't about going
to cross borders in my mind,

it's about extending your borders
and creating new ones around us.

And if you can create a new culture
where you take the best of all three,

like I try to do,
and it's not easy, guess what?

That is when you create
what we call a global mindset.

And I believe this is what makes
the world go around.

Thank you very much.

(Applause)