-
Good afternoon everyone
-
So, Enrico is a guy with many hats in Debian and
-
I didn't expect it but he will talk about a new hat:
-
the "Debian contributor hat"
-
So, please welcome Enrico.
-
[applause]
-
Nobody expects Debian contributors.
-
Our chief weapons are Debian Developers.
-
Debian Developers and Debian Maintainers are our two weapons
-
Debian Developers and Debian Maintainers and Alioth accounts
-
are our three weapons
-
and Debian Developers, Debian Maintainers, Alioth accounts and bug reports
-
are our four amongst our weapons
-
amongst our weaponry
-
are such elements as Debian Developers, Debian Maintainers are... I'll come in again.
-
[comment about the Social Contract]
-
Nobody expects Debian contributors
-
amongst our weaponry
-
are such diverse elements as
-
Debian Developers, Debian Maintainers
-
Alioth accounts, bug reporters
-
and it miss contributors
-
There's more possible
-
We clearly need another hat
-
to make sense of all this.
-
Right?
-
so let's make a new hat
-
I would like to create a hat
-
of Debian contributors
-
so that we can say
-
Nobody expects Debian
-
our chief weapons are Debian contributors, full stop.
-
A hat for everyone that contributes to Debian.
-
Now, the details are here.
-
This is the file
-
with notes.
-
Is it readable at the end?
-
No?
-
You have much better eyesight that
-
No, sorry, I open in a different terminal.
-
[laughter]
-
Right.
-
This is a text file with notes about what I plan to do
-
I would like to go through it with you
-
and then
-
edit it together with you
-
and at the end of these 45 minutes
-
have a proposal that
-
I'll try to implement during DebConf
-
and fail unless somebody helps me, probably
-
but what we see how much of this
-
we want to do, how much of it
-
can be implemented during DebConf and
-
at the end of DebConf
-
I'll make another talk about what we changed in Debian.
-
So
-
This is probably a good time to
-
Ok, so
-
the problem we want to solve
-
the problem I want to solve
-
and you probably also want to solve
-
once you realise you have a problem
-
is... words wrapping.
-
[laughers] Now that we solved word wrapping.
-
Ok, so
-
in Debian, we have
-
lots of contributions that
-
we do not thank people for
-
in the sense that we do not acknowledge
-
that people that did
-
translations,
-
worked
-
we don't acknowledge somewhere people who did translations
-
or people who reported bugs
-
There is lots of contributions outside of Debian
-
but if we look
-
around package tracking system
-
Debian developer package overview
-
it's all package-based
-
because that's where we come from
-
and
-
and so we track uploads that are easy to track
-
and we acknowledge uploads mostly
-
but
-
there's so much more that we do not acknowledge at the moment
-
Also,
-
There is a need
-
Over the time, we created so many ways of contributing to Debian
-
outside being a Debian Developer
-
so
-
the head
-
of the Italian translations in Debian
-
is not a Debian Developer
-
Nobody knows
-
who she is
-
Well, I know who she is
-
Francesca told me
-
and at least two Debian Developers know who she is
-
I've no idea who's the head of the
-
Vietnamese translation
-
Raise your head if you know who is the head of the Vietnamese translation
-
in Debian.
-
[chat in the public]
-
[public] I know the French one
-
yeah, we all know who the French one is.
-
[laughter]
-
[claps]
-
But, we totally need a way to credit people
-
properly.
-
Debian is so much more than
-
uploads and Cheese and Wine BoFs
-
So, there's this idea of creating a hat
-
of Debian contributor which is
-
the ultimate do-ocracy hat
-
There is no bureaucracy involved
-
If you contribute to Debian
-
you are a Debian contributor
-
automatically: there is no new Debian contributor process
-
If you stop contributing to Debian, you stop being a Debian contributor
-
That's it.
-
When you are a Debian contributor
-
you get such
-
diverse privileges as
-
having your name on a list
-
of Debian contributors
-
[laughter]
-
and possibly, if you're not a Debian contributor anymore
-
then your name will be on a list of Debian contributors in 2012.
-
If we want to be a bit fancy, when you click
-
on a name on a list
-
you get a page about that person
-
that list what they've done
-
And that's about it.
-
That's all I had in mind
-
You report a bug
-
you become a Debian contributor
-
Then maybe everything you do for Debian is reporting a bug
-
on the 11th of August 2013
-
then you will be a Debian contributor
-
from the 11th of August 2013
-
to the 11th of August 2013
-
at least you're acknowledged
-
as that you've helped Debian
-
Mostly I've said all of this
-
In order to do this
-
there needs to be a way of collecting this information
-
There are data sources we can easily tap into
-
such as
-
package uploads
-
but we can see mailing list traffic, easily
-
We can get
-
bug tracking system activity hopefully easily
-
We can hook into
-
commit logs of Alioth
-
version control systems
-
[phone ring]
-
[phone's owner] Sorry
-
All right
-
At least I don't have to answer
-
And, this system, whenever
-
at any point of its usage
-
would be unfair
-
because there will always be some bit of Debian that
-
isn't yet providing data
-
for the list.
-
However, the point is that by having such a system in place
-
we create
-
a proper way of acknoledging people's work
-
and we give motivations for teams to contribute
-
contribution information to the list
-
Questions so far?
-
[Q] If you do this automatically
-
which we can here assume you want to
-
wouldn't that raise privacy concerns?
-
Sorry, I did not understand the second part
-
[Q] Wouldn't this raise privacy concerns?
-
Good question.
-
The question is,
-
if we collect this data automatically, wouldn't there be privacy concerns?
-
Yes, possibly
-
To be discussed.
-
All the information presented here
-
is already public
-
There is a public record of package uploads,
-
mailing lists are publicly archived
-
but
-
the BTS is fully in the open
-
commit logs on Alioth are public
-
I would only mine
commit logs on Alioth are public
-
I would only mine
-
or get data from sources that are either public
-
or that people agree
-
to disclose
-
However, it's the usual issue of
-
the information is public but not presented in that way
-
for example
-
when
-
when
-
I collected information from Debian changelogs to
-
see the history of people's contribution in the process
-
I did not make that information publicly available
-
because it's a bit
-
I would like to have a discussion
-
whether we want to present that information in
-
collated in such a way
-
So yes
-
that is an issue
-
My general idea would be that
-
once the system goes public
-
there should be a way for people to opt-out
-
of having information about them displayed
-
Most of the privacy scenario...
-
so, generally people
-
I would understand the general...
-
The default would be that somebody likes
-
their work to be credited
-
However, there may be people
-
that
-
would have issues if some of their work is credited
-
Most things revolve around
-
job hunting like recruiters looking at the internet
-
and you either want to be found
-
or if you don't want to be found
-
you already have a problem when contributing to Debian.
-
I need to be careful about contributing with a different name or something.
-
But, yes
-
my assumption is that
-
It's not a big privacy issue to get it started
-
as long as
-
we give people the opportunity to opt-out
-
Does it seem reasonable?
-
[Q] Maybe with a opt-in
-
Maybe with a opt-in
-
By default it's not opt-in
-
I would be fine with opt-in
-
I wonder how many people would know
-
that they can opt-in and how to opt-in
-
At the moment
-
the current Debian infrastructure is not even opt-out
-
You can't say "Please don't show
-
the messages that I sent to Debian mailing lists"
-
I would see surprising that such a thing would be opt-in
-
because anything is already out by default
-
On the other hand
-
I could be convinced
-
about making it opt-in
-
It's seems to be
-
at the moment something that would
-
impact
-
the start of such project
-
So, before
-
somebody gets a useful list
-
I would need to go and bother a thousand people
-
to opt-in the system so that at least can get populated
-
Yes?
-
[Q] I think you should also look at legal
-
aspects, you are collecting personal information
-
as far... I don't know the law
-
by heart
-
but as far as I understand it
-
it would be illegal
-
in half of european countries
-
Then Debian is already illegal
-
No! Currently
-
you are not collecting this information
-
Yes, we are
-
You have it in different pieces
-
and at different places
-
and it start
-
The package tracking system would be illegal
-
No it's not illegal
-
You don't collect information there
-
collated about a person
-
There, you have it
-
to follow specifics purpose
-
and this is not illegal, but if you collect it
-
and collect all information for a specific
-
person or all persons
-
and collate it
-
this could possibly be illegal as far as I understand it
-
I would like
-
You said that you are not sure
-
I would like to talk with somebody who is sure
-
because we already have things
-
that
-
would potentially be illegal in that view
-
like the package tracking system
-
goes beyond
-
listing of some of the uploaders
-
because it collects information
-
about everything visible about the person, bugs and so on
-
[Q] Would it be
-
a preset that is useful to
-
structure this kind of things by, I mean
-
some
-
reasonable set of people
-
listed as contributors
-
You could start by assuming that
-
people who have said
-
"I would like to be a Debian Developer"
-
or "I would like to be a Debian member"
-
have implicitely given their authorisation
-
to be listed as Debian contributors.
-
It's a subset
-
that we might have to run up by a lawyer
-
but it seems a bit more reasonable than
-
??????
-
I was just gonna say I think
-
the legal thing should probably be a separated BoF
-
because
-
in the practical terms if you're only worried
-
from the legal point of view, you just need to
-
get someone who is in Debian in the US
-
to host a US server because the US
-
doesn't basically have this kind of laws
-
It is rather missing the point.
-
Exactly, the relevant question is I think
-
no about the legal thing it's a kind of ???
-
but about what we want to do and what we think is fair and so on
-
Well I keep thinking ??? something
-
much more lightweight than launchpad
-
is doing
-
Another point of, another way to mailing list would be to
-
do this automatism
-
without publishing the data but
-
with afterwards sending
-
about once a year or
-
even possibly less
-
a mail to every contributor if he wants to be listed
-
so we have an opt-in instead of an opt-out
-
If we do it seldomly enough
-
it would not even be so
-
stressing people
-
Yeah, that makes sense
-
You don't need to wait a year,
-
you can do it the first time you detect someone new
-
someone starts contributing
-
we can send "hello, you did something in Debian
-
we would like to credit you"
-
Wait for a month.
-
Wait for a month after the first contribution
-
if you get more, then
-
say "Do you want to be thanked?"
-
Makes sense
-
[Q] Even without waiting. We can do as the Linux kernel
-
you knows the stats about
-
which companies contribute to the Linux kernel?
-
It's like that, they check for new commits
-
and just send an email to ask affiliation
-
There's other systems that calculate karma
-
Those are illegal because
-
then they produce
-
information that could be used to rank people
-
from a job point of view
-
[from audience] there is Google
-
The other... yeah, well.
-
I'm not that concerned with that regard at the moment
-
[Q] Would that credit
-
only be for
-
persons, or also for organisations or companies?
-
I'm
-
interested about
-
entities
-
directly contributing to Debian
-
So, if
-
there's some email and GPG key
-
which belongs to an entity called
-
FooBar ltd
-
then FooBar ltd will be credited
-
I'm not interested
-
that there is a real person behind this
-
and not interested
-
that's the real name of a person
-
It's just whatever
-
is chosen for contribution
-
that we only check identities
-
when we have to
-
which is when we give people upload rights
-
because we want to know where they live
-
and go there to tickle them
-
[laughter]
-
I think that
-
the main index would be the e-mail
-
Even behind the scenes... But the main index would be the email?
-
That is one issue
-
That is an issue
-
because depending on the data sources
-
the index could be an email
-
in the BTS for example
-
an Alioth
-
account
-
for commits
-
in Alioth
-
or
-
Debian Developer login name
-
for sponsoring uploads
-
so
-
possibly, that
-
that could be some
-
need of mixing things at some point
-
which is a bit of a separate problem
-
I don't mind starting
-
with that not being perfect
-
or being fixed by hand
-
And if we evolve at some point
-
there may be a way for people
-
to log in and prove that
-
they control that GPG key
-
or that e-mail address or that Alioth account
-
you know, sending e-mail challenge saying "that's my e-mail"
-
but ok, it is
-
yes, ok, then I merge
-
the two sets of contributions
-
possibly for next year
-
because it starts being a bit heavy weight
-
but there's a problem of doing this collation
-
it is a wider something that
-
greatly help the MIA team
-
So this
-
in the end can be something
-
used to detect when people
-
are not contributing anymore
-
I would also
-
want to make it so that
-
if you are a Debian Developer
-
you are not automatically
-
a Debian contributor
-
[laughter]
-
If you are not a Debian Developer
-
you are not automatically a Debian contributor
-
you are a Debian contributor only
-
if you contribute to Debian
-
If you are a Debian Developer that
-
does not contribute to Debian
-
then you are not on that list
-
You keep being a Debian Developer
-
There's the usual
-
I'm not interested in changing the rules
-
for
-
getting removed from
-
Debian keyring
-
I think what we have is fine.
-
But
-
it's perfectly right if
-
if I'm not active in Debian for a year
-
but I still care about the project
-
involved, and follow things
-
but I don't contribute anymore
-
then I'm perfectly happy that I'm not listed
-
among the contributors for that year
-
There was a hand?
-
[Q] Yes, I'm relaying a comment from IRC
-
Wouldn't
-
recognising every small thing like
-
just one bug report
-
dillute the
-
the weight
-
of a Debian contributor
-
that so
-
are there Debian contributors like
-
the head of a translation team
-
be equal to
-
one bug report
-
That's the comment, I'm not saying that I agree
-
The way I see it
-
again, we can
-
you can tell me if you don't like this
-
but the way I see it, they are the same
-
They are Debian contributors
-
maybe one has been a Debian contributor
-
for much longer than the other
-
so the time span
-
of the contribution is the only extra
-
bit. Or you can click on a
-
a person and list their contributions
-
But, I don't want to
-
calculate a number
-
of how much one is a contributor
-
I don't see
-
why one would want to
-
rank people
-
by contribution
-
I'm not interested in that
-
I think it creates a kind of
-
community where I don't want to be in
-
personally, I mean, that would be my personal feeling
-
But I would be able to
-
say "thank you" even if
-
a person reports a bug
-
It takes time to report a bug
-
There was an idea
-
talking about this
-
informally earlier
-
of
-
having some data sources used
-
only to compute
-
the time span but not
-
the status of contributors
-
for example mailing list traffic
-
Maybe people don't like the idea
-
that if you send a e-mail to
-
a mailing list you are Debian contributors
-
There's indeed many people
-
who send lots of e-mails to Debian
-
mailing lists
-
but do not contribute
-
[Laughter] to Debian
-
at all
-
However, if somebody
-
is a contributor for some other reason
-
then it makes sense to
-
look at mailing list involvement
-
say: "Well, you reported a bug today
-
but you've been active in mailing lists
-
for a year"
-
so you are a Debian contributor because
-
you reported a bug
-
and you've been a Debian contributor for a year
-
because
-
you've been into Debian for a long time
-
so splitting
-
the...
-
I think some data sources
-
are only useful computing the time
-
and not the status
-
I would like to add something about
-
the issue with detecting the people
-
because we had some experiences in the team maintenance thing
-
and, in UDD you have
-
this Carnivore database
-
which is based on the
-
key fingerprint
-
and we even have
-
for these people
-
somebody with five
-
different names
-
names spellings and so on
-
people are using different e-mail addresses so
-
I really really really doubt
-
you can manage this for
-
say, more than 500 people
-
because it's
-
manual work and we tried it
-
it's hard to cope with this
-
No no, I don't want to do manual work
-
Yeah but, ok
-
Good luck with automatic detection
-
No, I don't want to do
-
that much automatic detection either
-
I would
-
like
-
things to be fixed as much as possible
-
and
-
at lower level of data sources
-
When that is not possible
-
I would like to offer people a way to
-
fix the data for themselves
-
There's that
-
unpronounceable and
-
evil web site that tracks
-
free software developers
-
that in my opinion should be illegal but isn't
-
it starts with "o", ohlo?
-
"O-l-o-h-o" something like that
-
I actually had an argument with
-
their CEO, saying
-
I've asked to opt out
-
of their system and they told me to fuck off
-
So
-
talking about privacy of these things
-
I guess if they can do what they do
-
I think we don't have a problem to say "thank you"
-
to a bunch of people
-
They do of
-
they have a mess, their dataset is a
-
a mess
-
but people still like them
-
I'm listed about
-
twenty times in their system
-
and if I really care about
-
contributing them my identity for free
-
for them to send it out
-
then I
-
can log in and
-
merge these identities for them
-
I guess
-
that's something we can offer
-
and
-
and that can improve things
-
like carnivore and so on
-
and possibly we can have
-
personal homepage...
-
for contributors
-
[Q] Where they actively
-
contribute to their identities?
-
At least we've done
-
all we can to thank them
-
but
-
Well, you know, if I tell you "thank you"
-
I don't expect you to say
-
"You didn't thank me in a an appropriate way"
-
Right?
-
On the other hand
-
I'm ok if people say
-
"Well, I'm also that person
-
you don't need to thank me so many times"
-
and that
-
that's fine, but, on the other hand
-
I'm perfectly happy if
-
people want
-
to use multiple identities
-
for contributing to Debian
-
Somebody in Debian science
-
may want to contribute to Debian games under a different name
-
For similar reasons, I don't want to trunk
-
the time frame of contributions
-
below the month level
-
I don't want
-
to say
-
"You have contributed to Debian games
-
between
-
10am to 11:30am on a Thursday
-
when you were at a meeting
-
[laughter]
-
Right?
-
So, it's
-
I want it to be coarse
-
It really needs to be mostly about thank you
-
and about building reputation
-
Reputation is also what we can reward people with
-
which is kind of the point of the exercise
-
and that reputation is nice to acknowledge
-
and at the same time it's nice
-
that we can
-
look up someone's reputation
-
at least
-
as a Debian account manager and Front Desk member
-
if I can see what's somebody's reputation and have a
-
reasonable look
-
then I can make the process much swifter for them
-
and especially for non uploading DDs
-
it's currently very hard
-
because
-
I can go and look at package changelogs
-
to see that they have been active for ten years in the project
-
and
-
if somebody is a non uploading DD
-
that has done translations at the moment
-
I have very hard time seeing
-
what they've done
-
possibly I don't understand the language
-
So, well
-
and that makes
-
makes it easier and
-
that another
-
outcome that I would really want to see
-
out of this is that
-
we start to actually see
-
in front of us
-
that Debian is not just
-
about technical development
-
There's a lot more
-
but if people still perceive
-
"Oh, I'd like to contribute to Debian but
-
but I'm not a technical person."
-
and
-
many of us may have
-
difficulty in pointing out places
-
but one can go and have a look at
-
such a list of people and say: "hey, look
-
there's people over there that do also other stuff
-
it could be indexed by
-
topic of contribution
-
as well
-
Again
-
uploading, these are contributors that do uploading
-
these are contributors that do translations
-
That may be introduced at some point
-
so that we
-
we can turn on a spotlight
-
in several aspects of
-
Debian that we usually don't look into
-
we just take it for granted
-
[Q] I have a lot of questions
-
Yeah?
-
I'm more concerned, more than anything
-
If this...
-
I mean, some
-
One thing that you said at the beginning is that
-
maybe some people would be quite interested
-
in this for collaborate research, for work
-
for creating a curriculum
-
[A] Yes
-
[Q] and
-
if it's as easy as to filing a bug which
-
can be very hard to do
-
depending on the bug or very easy to do
-
depending on how much you put in it,
-
wouldn't be able to
-
to calling people to put this
-
random stuff or easy stuff there
-
for just being in the list
-
Yes, well
-
at that point they're really bad job recruiters
-
Say that if there's a recruiter that just
-
does random google search
-
and contacts whoever comes out
-
like Google recruiters
-
I keep being contacted for things like managing clusters
-
If anyone's had a look at what I do
-
I don't manage clusters, right?
-
So, if there's recruiters like that
-
there's nothing you can do
-
If people care to actually go in and to look
-
at what a person has done
-
then
-
there's a way to find out
-
what contributions actually were
-
from just linking to
-
the usual Debian mailing list
-
archives or uploads or
-
commit logs and so on
-
[Q] So, if I understand correctly, you are ready to
-
use the BTS as a source
-
for the contributors, and you could have
-
a lot of nicknames there
-
It could be "the Pope" or "Bill Gates", or
-
the name of a serial killer or whatever
-
Are you ready to use that?
-
Maybe there could be some issue with
-
people that would be falsely
-
credited
-
[A] We try and see what happens
-
It could be that for the bug tracking system
-
we need to have
-
some extra intelligence built in to avoid crediting
-
China manufacturing corporations
-
or viagra supplies for cheap
-
mailing list archives are being spammed
-
somehow
-
but again
-
then, maybe
-
maybe there's lots of noise
-
and we want to set a threshold that one
-
contribution to the bug tracking system is not good to be enough
-
or maybe we can look if that bug was closed
-
because we close spam bugs
-
anyway
-
If there's cruft, if there's noise
-
that we can filter somehow
-
maybe we'll loose some contributions
-
but at least it wasn't for lack of trying
-
I mean
-
I don't want to go out of my way to thank someone
-
If I need to
-
find out where you live
-
to come to your home and say thank you
-
because I don't see you anymore
-
or because I met you in a crowded
-
square and you gave me directions
-
but I didn't take down your phone number
-
then, it's unfair
-
you won't be thanked
-
when I finally reach my destination, but
-
that's life
-
So
-
then maybe it takes
-
ten e-mails to the BTS
-
with different content
-
to be acknowledged
-
It's possibly something to be
-
I would leave freedom to the people doing an import
-
thing, something that gets data out of the bug tracking system
-
give that area freedom to work it out
-
and I don't want anyone to be perfect
-
The system is not going to be perfect
-
if
-
somebody would really like to be credited but
-
isn't in the list
-
and what they do is report bugs
-
I would be surprised because if
-
if somebody wants to be credited on reporting one bug
-
I'm going to say " Well, just upload some more"
-
I'm not sure I want to have people
-
in Debian
-
that contribute
-
in order to be credited
-
If
-
If contributing some more is
-
a way to get credited, then
-
yeah, we don't need to be perfect
-
just ask people to contribute some more
-
or if people contribute
-
the problem is when people contribute a lot
-
but they're not credited
-
then maybe we need to figure out how to import
-
data from another part of Debian that
-
we currently don't track so well
-
I'm totally not looking for perfection here
-
[Q] Have you thought about other ways to use mailing lists
-
archive because you said
-
we don't always want to use it as
-
source of contribution but more
-
to track the length of contribution
-
but there are some lists, for example
-
l10n translation lists
-
where I guess most people who contribute are real contributors
-
and sometimes they
-
also use
-
some code
-
I mean, the e-mail could be detecting
-
like "Request for review"
-
and stuff like this so you can add some hints on the
-
type of contribution more precise that
-
just "sent a mail to the mailing list"
-
and maybe also for a user mailing list
-
not tracking the question but only answers
-
or sort like that...
-
because, well, asking a question is not a real
-
contribution to Debian, but helping someone else to
-
use the Debian system is
-
a Debian contribution
-
and one of the most important one to start with I guess
-
[A] Decoding mailing lists patterns
-
fairly is not
-
easy as far as I understand
-
but I guess it changes from list to list
-
but
-
that could be solved by
-
adding a general mailing list
-
source that only looks at time frame
-
and having the translation team saying
-
"In our mailing list
-
there's more semantic information that can be
-
extracted"
-
so make
-
an extra import if
-
importer for my team that decodes
-
things and put there properly
-
as long as you can have
-
many things dumping data into a bucket
-
then that works
-
I currently have no idea
-
well, only vague ideas on
-
how...
-
what's the protocol to collect this data
-
I would
-
from the central bit
-
I wouldn't go much further than
-
having a list of urls from where I download something
-
on a regular basis
-
because that's the simplest
-
protocol to identify instead of
-
submits and whatnot
-
and what's in the file that gets downloaded
-
could be identity, initial time and final time
-
and then each datasource
-
makes a file available somewhere
-
I was thinking of something
-
super simple minded like that but then it's not enough
-
because then if you want to look
-
to make a link
-
showing the contributions then
-
well I need something
-
about how to
-
how to make this data available for collection
-
at the central point I'm only
-
I want it as simple minded
-
as possible, I don't want
-
the core of this to be about data collection
-
about mining
-
it should just be about collecting what as been mied
-
One last question?
-
[Q] Just a thought on what you said there is a
-
Google Summer of Code project
-
on Fedmsg
-
which is a ??? maybe to
-
have a bus
-
collecting lots of information from
-
various sources of information
-
among those, there's already
-
mentors.debian.net
-
and I guess the BTS would be
-
[A] main source? [Q] it's a source
-
???
-
yeah but I guess it could have enough metadata
-
like ???
-
the software is fedmsg
-
F-E-D-M-S-G
-
it's from Fedora and
-
the summer of code student is trying to adapt it for Debian
-
just a software bus
-
where you get lots of events from various sources
-
maybe it could be
-
assuming it goes further than this summer
-
it could be an interesting use of this project
-
Ok
-
[Chairman] As the mentor of this project, I agree
-
[laughter]
-
Ah, let's talk
-
and I think the student is arriving today, so
-
[laughter]
-
So, we're out of time
-
so, thank you Enrico
-
[Enrico] We can talk about this, I plan to work on it during the DebConf
-
shortly, that should be Martin Ferrari coming who was also
-
intending to work on a site, similar to this
-
and I get we should all get together
-
I can think of something
-
and feel free to stop me to talk about this and
-
offer help or
-
that's the main thing I want to do a DebConf
-
and I want to get something land before
-
the end of DebConf so we can
-
present it properly
-
[applause]