0:00:01.030,0:00:02.050
Good afternoon everyone

0:00:02.050,0:00:06.610
So, Enrico is a guy with many hats in Debian and

0:00:07.740,0:00:10.290
I didn't expect it but he will talk about a new hat:

0:00:10.290,0:00:11.890
the "Debian contributor hat"

0:00:11.890,0:00:13.840
So, please welcome Enrico.

0:00:14.160,0:00:21.420
[applause]

0:00:21.420,0:00:23.810
Nobody expects Debian contributors.

0:00:24.440,0:00:26.750
Our chief weapons are Debian Developers.

0:00:26.750,0:00:30.240
Debian Developers and Debian Maintainers are our two weapons

0:00:30.700,0:00:34.070
Debian Developers and Debian Maintainers and Alioth accounts

0:00:34.570,0:00:36.510
are our three weapons

0:00:36.510,0:00:41.220
and Debian Developers, Debian Maintainers, Alioth accounts and bug reports

0:00:41.760,0:00:45.350
are our four amongst our weapons

0:00:46.140,0:00:47.580
amongst our weaponry

0:00:47.580,0:00:52.190
are such elements as Debian Developers, Debian Maintainers are... I'll come in again.

0:00:54.650,0:00:57.460
[comment about the Social Contract]

0:01:00.420,0:01:03.510
Nobody expects Debian contributors

0:01:03.510,0:01:05.930
amongst our weaponry

0:01:05.930,0:01:08.650
are such diverse elements as

0:01:08.650,0:01:10.650
Debian Developers, Debian Maintainers

0:01:10.650,0:01:12.830
Alioth accounts, bug reporters

0:01:13.790,0:01:15.240
and it miss contributors

0:01:17.740,0:01:19.470
There's more possible

0:01:21.490,0:01:24.780
We clearly need another hat

0:01:25.960,0:01:29.620
to make sense of all this.

0:01:38.420,0:01:38.980
Right?

0:01:42.030,0:01:45.810
so let's make a new hat

0:01:47.080,0:01:49.580
I would like to create a hat

0:01:49.580,0:01:51.080
of Debian contributors

0:01:51.080,0:01:52.910
so that we can say

0:01:53.410,0:01:55.520
Nobody expects Debian

0:01:55.520,0:01:59.350
our chief weapons are Debian contributors, full stop.

0:01:59.790,0:02:04.290
A hat for everyone that contributes to Debian.

0:02:05.120,0:02:07.840
Now, the details are here.

0:02:10.000,0:02:12.330
This is the file

0:02:13.420,0:02:15.110
with notes.

0:02:15.110,0:02:17.110
Is it readable at the end?

0:02:18.190,0:02:19.110
No?

0:02:19.110,0:02:21.490
You have much better eyesight that

0:02:21.490,0:02:25.650
No, sorry, I open in a different terminal.

0:02:31.570,0:02:35.810
[laughter]

0:02:41.690,0:02:42.530
Right.

0:02:42.920,0:02:48.380
This is a text file with notes about what I plan to do

0:02:48.380,0:02:50.910
I would like to go through it with you

0:02:50.910,0:02:52.460
and then

0:02:52.460,0:02:54.460
edit it together with you

0:02:54.460,0:02:58.510
and at the end of these 45 minutes

0:02:58.510,0:03:00.510
have a proposal that

0:03:01.970,0:03:04.750
I'll try to implement during DebConf

0:03:05.090,0:03:08.210
and fail unless somebody helps me, probably

0:03:08.390,0:03:11.440
but what we see how much of this

0:03:11.440,0:03:13.540
we want to do, how much of it

0:03:13.540,0:03:15.540
can be implemented during DebConf and

0:03:15.540,0:03:16.640
at the end of DebConf

0:03:17.400,0:03:20.680
I'll make another talk about what we changed in Debian.

0:03:21.720,0:03:23.170
So

0:03:28.950,0:03:32.230
This is probably a good time to

0:03:34.880,0:03:36.910
Ok, so

0:03:37.420,0:03:40.080
the problem we want to solve

0:03:40.380,0:03:42.570
the problem I want to solve

0:03:42.570,0:03:44.570
and you probably also want to solve

0:03:44.570,0:03:46.570
once you realise you have a problem

0:03:51.490,0:03:54.230
is... words wrapping.

0:03:55.600,0:03:58.070
[laughers] Now that we solved word wrapping.

0:03:59.430,0:04:01.440
Ok, so

0:04:01.440,0:04:04.070
in Debian, we have

0:04:04.490,0:04:07.100
lots of contributions that

0:04:07.100,0:04:10.240
we do not thank people for

0:04:10.490,0:04:14.100
in the sense that we do not acknowledge

0:04:14.830,0:04:17.540
that people that did

0:04:17.540,0:04:18.829
translations,

0:04:18.970,0:04:19.870
worked

0:04:20.320,0:04:23.700
we don't acknowledge somewhere people who did translations

0:04:23.700,0:04:25.700
or people who reported bugs

0:04:25.700,0:04:29.030
There is lots of contributions outside of Debian

0:04:29.030,0:04:30.220
but if we look

0:04:30.590,0:04:33.440
around package tracking system

0:04:33.440,0:04:36.190
Debian developer package overview

0:04:36.190,0:04:37.860
it's all package-based

0:04:37.990,0:04:40.690
because that's where we come from

0:04:41.070,0:04:41.960
and

0:04:41.960,0:04:45.740
and so we track uploads that are easy to track

0:04:45.740,0:04:49.040
and we acknowledge uploads mostly

0:04:50.980,0:04:52.060
but

0:04:53.810,0:04:58.830
there's so much more that we do not acknowledge at the moment

0:04:58.830,0:05:00.140
Also,

0:05:00.670,0:05:02.250
There is a need

0:05:02.250,0:05:07.240
Over the time, we created so many ways of contributing to Debian

0:05:07.520,0:05:10.630
outside being a Debian Developer

0:05:10.770,0:05:11.770
so

0:05:12.380,0:05:13.540
the head

0:05:13.710,0:05:17.540
of the Italian translations in Debian

0:05:17.540,0:05:19.540
is not a Debian Developer

0:05:19.680,0:05:21.090
Nobody knows

0:05:21.530,0:05:23.090
who she is

0:05:24.750,0:05:27.250
Well, I know who she is

0:05:27.250,0:05:29.250
Francesca told me

0:05:29.250,0:05:33.300
and at least two Debian Developers know who she is

0:05:33.550,0:05:36.910
I've no idea who's the head of the

0:05:36.910,0:05:39.020
Vietnamese translation

0:05:42.400,0:05:47.510
Raise your head if you know who is the head of the Vietnamese translation

0:05:47.510,0:05:48.560
in Debian.

0:05:48.560,0:05:54.030
[chat in the public]

0:05:55.780,0:05:57.550
[public] I know the French one

0:05:58.500,0:06:01.770
yeah, we all know who the French one is.

0:06:01.770,0:06:04.270
[laughter]

0:06:04.320,0:06:09.010
[claps]

0:06:09.150,0:06:14.040
But, we totally need a way to credit people

0:06:14.090,0:06:15.920
properly.

0:06:15.920,0:06:18.530
Debian is so much more than

0:06:19.840,0:06:22.450
uploads and Cheese and Wine BoFs

0:06:25.660,0:06:28.550
So, there's this idea of creating a hat

0:06:28.550,0:06:30.550
of Debian contributor which is

0:06:30.550,0:06:33.410
the ultimate do-ocracy hat

0:06:33.740,0:06:36.240
There is no bureaucracy involved

0:06:36.240,0:06:38.710
If you contribute to Debian

0:06:38.710,0:06:41.260
you are a Debian contributor

0:06:41.680,0:06:45.980
automatically: there is no new Debian contributor process

0:06:47.310,0:06:52.670
If you stop contributing to Debian, you stop being a Debian contributor

0:06:52.830,0:06:54.000
That's it.

0:06:55.720,0:06:58.240
When you are a Debian contributor

0:06:58.240,0:07:00.240
you get such

0:07:00.600,0:07:03.150
diverse privileges as

0:07:03.150,0:07:05.150
having your name on a list

0:07:05.150,0:07:06.480
of Debian contributors

0:07:06.480,0:07:08.090
[laughter]

0:07:11.590,0:07:16.030
and possibly, if you're not a Debian contributor anymore

0:07:16.030,0:07:20.390
then your name will be on a list of Debian contributors in 2012.

0:07:22.000,0:07:25.800
If we want to be a bit fancy, when you click

0:07:26.020,0:07:27.800
on a name on a list

0:07:27.800,0:07:29.960
you get a page about that person

0:07:29.960,0:07:31.960
that list what they've done

0:07:33.240,0:07:34.900
And that's about it.

0:07:37.180,0:07:39.340
That's all I had in mind

0:07:39.340,0:07:41.890
You report a bug

0:07:41.890,0:07:44.250
you become a Debian contributor

0:07:44.250,0:07:47.940
Then maybe everything you do for Debian is reporting a bug

0:07:47.940,0:07:51.610
on the 11th of August 2013

0:07:51.610,0:07:54.080
then you will be a Debian contributor

0:07:54.080,0:07:56.770
from the 11th of August 2013

0:07:56.770,0:07:59.180
to the 11th of August 2013

0:07:59.180,0:08:00.820
at least you're acknowledged

0:08:00.820,0:08:03.090
as that you've helped Debian

0:08:23.690,0:08:26.850
Mostly I've said all of this

0:08:33.289,0:08:35.059
In order to do this

0:08:35.059,0:08:38.450
there needs to be a way of collecting this information

0:08:40.280,0:08:44.940
There are data sources we can easily tap into

0:08:44.940,0:08:46.940
such as

0:08:47.300,0:08:48.660
package uploads

0:08:53.040,0:08:57.070
but we can see mailing list traffic, easily

0:08:57.260,0:08:59.070
We can get

0:08:59.230,0:09:02.480
bug tracking system activity hopefully easily

0:09:03.870,0:09:06.920
We can hook into

0:09:06.920,0:09:10.360
commit logs of Alioth

0:09:13.580,0:09:15.470
version control systems

0:09:15.470,0:09:17.580
[phone ring]

0:09:17.580,0:09:18.490
[phone's owner] Sorry

0:09:18.490,0:09:19.460
All right

0:09:19.460,0:09:22.820
At least I don't have to answer

0:09:29.060,0:09:32.980
And, this system, whenever

0:09:32.980,0:09:36.280
at any point of its usage

0:09:36.280,0:09:38.060
would be unfair

0:09:38.060,0:09:41.770
because there will always be some bit of Debian that

0:09:41.770,0:09:44.830
isn't yet providing data

0:09:44.830,0:09:47.800
for the list.

0:09:48.490,0:09:52.400
However, the point is that by having such a system in place

0:09:52.400,0:09:53.820
we create

0:09:54.070,0:09:57.200
a proper way of acknoledging people's work

0:09:57.480,0:10:02.640
and we give motivations for teams to contribute

0:10:03.390,0:10:06.300
contribution information to the list

0:10:10.630,0:10:12.190
Questions so far?

0:10:28.200,0:10:31.060
[Q] If you do this automatically

0:10:31.060,0:10:33.560
which we can here assume you want to

0:10:33.560,0:10:37.080
wouldn't that raise privacy concerns?

0:10:37.190,0:10:38.970
Sorry, I did not understand the second part

0:10:39.600,0:10:43.430
[Q] Wouldn't this raise privacy concerns?

0:10:43.550,0:10:44.930
Good question.

0:10:44.930,0:10:46.930
The question is,

0:10:46.930,0:10:50.790
if we collect this data automatically, wouldn't there be privacy concerns?

0:10:50.790,0:10:52.790
Yes, possibly

0:10:54.120,0:10:55.760
To be discussed.

0:10:58.030,0:11:01.030
All the information presented here

0:11:01.030,0:11:04.110
is already public

0:11:05.750,0:11:08.630
There is a public record of package uploads,

0:11:08.630,0:11:11.100
mailing lists are publicly archived

0:11:11.680,0:11:12.680
but

0:11:12.850,0:11:15.710
the BTS is fully in the open

0:11:16.620,0:11:18.900
commit logs on Alioth are public

0:11:18.900,0:11:18.950
I would only mine[br]commit logs on Alioth are public

0:11:18.950,0:11:20.560
I would only mine

0:11:20.560,0:11:24.560
or get data from sources that are either public

0:11:24.560,0:11:26.560
or that people agree

0:11:26.560,0:11:28.000
to disclose

0:11:28.330,0:11:32.110
However, it's the usual issue of

0:11:32.910,0:11:36.440
the information is public but not presented in that way

0:11:36.440,0:11:37.600
for example

0:11:38.430,0:11:39.210
when

0:11:44.040,0:11:45.840
when

0:11:45.840,0:11:50.980
I collected information from Debian changelogs to

0:11:51.980,0:11:56.030
see the history of people's contribution in the process

0:11:56.250,0:12:00.410
I did not make that information publicly available

0:12:00.410,0:12:02.720
because it's a bit

0:12:03.740,0:12:05.990
I would like to have a discussion

0:12:05.990,0:12:09.130
whether we want to present that information in

0:12:09.270,0:12:11.370
collated in such a way

0:12:11.960,0:12:13.340
So yes

0:12:14.430,0:12:15.840
that is an issue

0:12:15.840,0:12:19.890
My general idea would be that

0:12:22.890,0:12:25.110
once the system goes public

0:12:25.110,0:12:28.140
there should be a way for people to opt-out

0:12:28.140,0:12:31.100
of having information about them displayed

0:12:31.910,0:12:35.100
Most of the privacy scenario...

0:12:35.100,0:12:37.490
so, generally people

0:12:37.790,0:12:39.150
I would understand the general...

0:12:39.150,0:12:41.210
The default would be that somebody likes

0:12:41.210,0:12:43.210
their work to be credited

0:12:44.120,0:12:46.450
However, there may be people

0:12:46.700,0:12:47.810
that

0:12:49.060,0:12:53.860
would have issues if some of their work is credited

0:12:57.690,0:13:00.460
Most things revolve around

0:13:02.020,0:13:05.850
job hunting like recruiters looking at the internet

0:13:06.790,0:13:08.980
and you either want to be found

0:13:08.980,0:13:11.180
or if you don't want to be found

0:13:11.180,0:13:14.340
you already have a problem when contributing to Debian.

0:13:14.450,0:13:18.090
I need to be careful about contributing with a different name or something.

0:13:20.360,0:13:21.660
But, yes

0:13:26.490,0:13:28.320
my assumption is that

0:13:28.630,0:13:32.070
It's not a big privacy issue to get it started

0:13:32.070,0:13:33.540
as long as

0:13:34.650,0:13:36.930
we give people the opportunity to opt-out

0:13:38.230,0:13:41.620
Does it seem reasonable?

0:13:46.580,0:13:48.800
[Q] Maybe with a opt-in

0:13:50.330,0:13:52.520
Maybe with a opt-in

0:13:52.520,0:13:55.080
By default it's not opt-in

0:13:55.270,0:13:57.410
I would be fine with opt-in

0:14:04.120,0:14:07.400
I wonder how many people would know

0:14:07.400,0:14:10.980
that they can opt-in and how to opt-in

0:14:13.830,0:14:15.110
At the moment

0:14:17.410,0:14:21.720
the current Debian infrastructure is not even opt-out

0:14:21.720,0:14:24.100
You can't say "Please don't show

0:14:24.100,0:14:26.770
the messages that I sent to Debian mailing lists"

0:14:30.790,0:14:35.310
I would see surprising that such a thing would be opt-in

0:14:35.730,0:14:39.120
because anything is already out by default

0:14:40.200,0:14:41.700
On the other hand

0:14:42.310,0:14:44.250
I could be convinced

0:14:44.250,0:14:46.250
about making it opt-in

0:14:47.440,0:14:49.050
It's seems to be

0:14:49.050,0:14:51.380
at the moment something that would

0:14:52.160,0:14:53.820
impact

0:14:54.520,0:14:56.710
the start of such project

0:14:56.710,0:14:58.120
So, before

0:14:58.120,0:15:00.070
somebody gets a useful list

0:15:00.070,0:15:02.560
I would need to go and bother a thousand people

0:15:02.560,0:15:05.670
to opt-in the system so that at least can get populated

0:15:06.870,0:15:07.670
Yes?

0:15:13.330,0:15:16.770
[Q] I think you should also look at legal

0:15:17.520,0:15:21.350
aspects, you are collecting personal information

0:15:21.820,0:15:25.430
as far... I don't know the law

0:15:25.760,0:15:27.710
by heart

0:15:27.710,0:15:29.710
but as far as I understand it

0:15:29.710,0:15:30.920
it would be illegal

0:15:30.920,0:15:33.230
in half of european countries

0:15:33.230,0:15:35.230
Then Debian is already illegal

0:15:35.230,0:15:37.230
No! Currently

0:15:37.230,0:15:39.800
you are not collecting this information

0:15:39.800,0:15:40.750
Yes, we are

0:15:40.750,0:15:43.360
You have it in different pieces

0:15:43.360,0:15:45.360
and at different places

0:15:51.930,0:15:54.180
and it start

0:15:54.180,0:15:56.620
The package tracking system would be illegal

0:15:56.620,0:15:59.400
No it's not illegal

0:15:59.400,0:16:02.340
You don't collect information there

0:16:03.670,0:16:05.580
collated about a person

0:16:06.110,0:16:08.110
There, you have it

0:16:08.110,0:16:13.630
to follow specifics purpose

0:16:14.240,0:16:18.150
and this is not illegal, but if you collect it

0:16:18.710,0:16:22.150
and collect all information for a specific

0:16:22.150,0:16:24.260
person or all persons

0:16:24.260,0:16:25.650
and collate it

0:16:25.840,0:16:29.620
this could possibly be illegal as far as I understand it

0:16:30.030,0:16:31.620
I would like

0:16:32.640,0:16:34.470
You said that you are not sure

0:16:34.470,0:16:36.830
I would like to talk with somebody who is sure

0:16:37.050,0:16:39.490
because we already have things

0:16:39.800,0:16:40.600
that

0:16:40.910,0:16:43.100
would potentially be illegal in that view

0:16:43.100,0:16:44.910
like the package tracking system

0:16:44.910,0:16:46.460
goes beyond

0:16:46.460,0:16:48.650
listing of some of the uploaders

0:16:48.650,0:16:50.840
because it collects information

0:16:50.840,0:16:54.840
about everything visible about the person, bugs and so on

0:16:55.950,0:16:57.390
[Q] Would it be

0:16:57.390,0:16:59.390
a preset that is useful to

0:16:59.390,0:17:01.720
structure this kind of things by, I mean

0:17:01.720,0:17:02.780
some

0:17:02.780,0:17:04.660
reasonable set of people

0:17:04.660,0:17:06.770
listed as contributors

0:17:06.770,0:17:10.550
You could start by assuming that

0:17:10.550,0:17:12.550
people who have said

0:17:13.180,0:17:14.900
"I would like to be a Debian Developer"

0:17:14.900,0:17:16.900
or "I would like to be a Debian member"

0:17:17.119,0:17:20.400
have implicitely given their authorisation

0:17:20.400,0:17:21.980
to be listed as Debian contributors.

0:17:21.980,0:17:23.980
It's a subset

0:17:25.170,0:17:28.560
that we might have to run up by a lawyer

0:17:28.560,0:17:30.140
but it seems a bit more reasonable than

0:17:30.140,0:17:32.140
??????

0:17:33.770,0:17:35.080
I was just gonna say I think

0:17:35.080,0:17:38.130
the legal thing should probably be a separated BoF

0:17:38.130,0:17:39.300
because

0:17:39.910,0:17:41.850
in the practical terms if you're only worried

0:17:41.850,0:17:43.240
from the legal point of view, you just need to

0:17:43.240,0:17:45.400
get someone who is in Debian in the US

0:17:45.400,0:17:47.400
to host a US server because the US

0:17:47.400,0:17:49.760
doesn't basically have this kind of laws

0:17:51.230,0:17:53.730
It is rather missing the point.

0:17:53.730,0:17:55.730
Exactly, the relevant question is I think

0:17:55.730,0:17:57.730
no about the legal thing it's a kind of ???

0:17:57.730,0:18:01.160
but about what we want to do and what we think is fair and so on

0:18:01.160,0:18:03.630
Well I keep thinking ??? something

0:18:03.630,0:18:06.410
much more lightweight than launchpad

0:18:06.410,0:18:08.100
is doing

0:18:12.100,0:18:17.870
Another point of, another way to mailing list would be to

0:18:18.650,0:18:20.370
do this automatism

0:18:20.370,0:18:22.670
without publishing the data but

0:18:22.890,0:18:25.750
with afterwards sending

0:18:25.920,0:18:28.110
about once a year or

0:18:28.110,0:18:30.190
even possibly less

0:18:31.130,0:18:35.070
a mail to every contributor if he wants to be listed

0:18:35.070,0:18:38.430
so we have an opt-in instead of an opt-out

0:18:38.540,0:18:40.400
If we do it seldomly enough

0:18:40.400,0:18:42.900
it would not even be so

0:18:42.900,0:18:44.400
stressing people

0:18:44.400,0:18:46.010
Yeah, that makes sense

0:18:46.230,0:18:47.590
You don't need to wait a year,

0:18:47.590,0:18:50.720
you can do it the first time you detect someone new

0:18:50.720,0:18:52.440
someone starts contributing

0:18:52.440,0:18:55.640
we can send "hello, you did something in Debian

0:18:55.640,0:18:57.380
we would like to credit you"

0:18:57.500,0:18:59.100
Wait for a month.

0:18:59.100,0:19:01.660
Wait for a month after the first contribution

0:19:01.660,0:19:04.160
if you get more, then

0:19:04.430,0:19:07.490
say "Do you want to be thanked?"

0:19:07.490,0:19:09.090
Makes sense

0:19:09.090,0:19:12.730
[Q] Even without waiting. We can do as the Linux kernel

0:19:13.980,0:19:16.390
you knows the stats about

0:19:16.390,0:19:18.810
which companies contribute to the Linux kernel?

0:19:19.110,0:19:22.140
It's like that, they check for new commits

0:19:22.140,0:19:24.520
and just send an email to ask affiliation

0:19:24.660,0:19:27.990
There's other systems that calculate karma

0:19:29.050,0:19:30.880
Those are illegal because

0:19:30.880,0:19:32.680
then they produce

0:19:32.680,0:19:35.600
information that could be used to rank people

0:19:36.150,0:19:38.290
from a job point of view

0:19:38.290,0:19:39.950
[from audience] there is Google

0:19:40.700,0:19:44.230
The other... yeah, well.

0:19:44.610,0:19:47.670
I'm not that concerned with that regard at the moment

0:19:47.670,0:19:49.860
[Q] Would that credit

0:19:50.330,0:19:52.440
only be for

0:19:52.440,0:19:56.410
persons, or also for organisations or companies?

0:19:56.410,0:19:57.770
I'm

0:19:58.270,0:20:00.740
interested about

0:20:01.850,0:20:03.850
entities

0:20:07.040,0:20:09.530
directly contributing to Debian

0:20:09.980,0:20:12.170
So, if

0:20:12.950,0:20:17.670
there's some email and GPG key

0:20:17.890,0:20:21.970
which belongs to an entity called

0:20:24.300,0:20:26.180
FooBar ltd

0:20:26.180,0:20:29.380
then FooBar ltd will be credited

0:20:29.380,0:20:31.230
I'm not interested

0:20:31.230,0:20:33.730
that there is a real person behind this

0:20:33.730,0:20:35.730
and not interested

0:20:35.730,0:20:37.730
that's the real name of a person

0:20:38.030,0:20:39.890
It's just whatever

0:20:40.590,0:20:42.780
is chosen for contribution

0:20:45.550,0:20:48.050
that we only check identities

0:20:48.050,0:20:50.050
when we have to

0:20:50.050,0:20:52.570
which is when we give people upload rights

0:20:52.570,0:20:54.820
because we want to know where they live

0:20:54.820,0:20:56.930
and go there to tickle them

0:20:57.070,0:20:58.820
[laughter]

0:20:59.680,0:21:01.250
I think that

0:21:01.250,0:21:04.340
the main index would be the e-mail

0:21:05.700,0:21:10.580
Even behind the scenes... But the main index would be the email?

0:21:10.580,0:21:12.090
That is one issue

0:21:12.260,0:21:13.980
That is an issue

0:21:14.670,0:21:17.010
because depending on the data sources

0:21:17.010,0:21:19.010
the index could be an email

0:21:19.290,0:21:21.010
in the BTS for example

0:21:21.150,0:21:22.330
an Alioth

0:21:22.690,0:21:23.710
account

0:21:23.840,0:21:25.920
for commits

0:21:25.920,0:21:27.470
in Alioth

0:21:27.470,0:21:28.650
or

0:21:28.650,0:21:30.870
Debian Developer login name

0:21:30.870,0:21:32.870
for sponsoring uploads

0:21:34.180,0:21:34.870
so

0:21:35.210,0:21:36.650
possibly, that

0:21:36.810,0:21:38.510
that could be some

0:21:38.510,0:21:41.220
need of mixing things at some point

0:21:41.430,0:21:44.160
which is a bit of a separate problem

0:21:44.530,0:21:46.460
I don't mind starting

0:21:46.460,0:21:48.460
with that not being perfect

0:21:48.460,0:21:50.340
or being fixed by hand

0:21:51.560,0:21:53.670
And if we evolve at some point

0:21:53.670,0:21:55.460
there may be a way for people

0:21:55.460,0:21:57.630
to log in and prove that

0:21:57.630,0:21:59.220
they control that GPG key

0:21:59.220,0:22:02.020
or that e-mail address or that Alioth account

0:22:02.020,0:22:04.470
you know, sending e-mail challenge saying "that's my e-mail"

0:22:04.620,0:22:05.690
but ok, it is

0:22:05.690,0:22:07.390
yes, ok, then I merge

0:22:07.560,0:22:09.260
the two sets of contributions

0:22:10.810,0:22:12.600
possibly for next year

0:22:12.600,0:22:15.140
because it starts being a bit heavy weight

0:22:15.140,0:22:18.020
but there's a problem of doing this collation

0:22:18.020,0:22:19.520
it is a wider something that

0:22:19.520,0:22:21.520
greatly help the MIA team

0:22:23.780,0:22:25.180
So this

0:22:25.180,0:22:27.180
in the end can be something

0:22:27.180,0:22:29.180
used to detect when people

0:22:29.890,0:22:31.760
are not contributing anymore

0:22:31.760,0:22:33.830
I would also

0:22:33.830,0:22:35.590
want to make it so that

0:22:35.590,0:22:37.400
if you are a Debian Developer

0:22:37.400,0:22:39.040
you are not automatically

0:22:39.040,0:22:40.610
a Debian contributor

0:22:40.610,0:22:46.610
[laughter]

0:22:46.870,0:22:48.610
If you are not a Debian Developer

0:22:48.610,0:22:50.610
you are not automatically a Debian contributor

0:22:50.610,0:22:52.830
you are a Debian contributor only

0:22:52.930,0:22:54.610
if you contribute to Debian

0:22:54.970,0:22:56.740
If you are a Debian Developer that

0:22:56.740,0:22:58.740
does not contribute to Debian

0:22:58.740,0:23:00.290
then you are not on that list

0:23:00.290,0:23:02.290
You keep being a Debian Developer

0:23:02.590,0:23:03.840
There's the usual

0:23:03.840,0:23:05.840
I'm not interested in changing the rules

0:23:05.970,0:23:06.640
for

0:23:06.760,0:23:08.740
getting removed from

0:23:08.740,0:23:09.500
Debian keyring

0:23:09.500,0:23:11.350
I think what we have is fine.

0:23:12.400,0:23:13.690
But

0:23:14.230,0:23:16.060
it's perfectly right if

0:23:16.060,0:23:18.180
if I'm not active in Debian for a year

0:23:18.190,0:23:19.740
but I still care about the project

0:23:19.740,0:23:21.330
involved, and follow things

0:23:21.330,0:23:22.730
but I don't contribute anymore

0:23:22.730,0:23:24.980
then I'm perfectly happy that I'm not listed

0:23:24.980,0:23:26.980
among the contributors for that year

0:23:29.870,0:23:31.390
There was a hand?

0:23:31.390,0:23:35.120
[Q] Yes, I'm relaying a comment from IRC

0:23:36.380,0:23:37.350
Wouldn't

0:23:38.900,0:23:41.650
recognising every small thing like

0:23:41.650,0:23:44.060
just one bug report

0:23:44.280,0:23:46.670
dillute the

0:23:48.260,0:23:49.640
the weight

0:23:49.940,0:23:52.190
of a Debian contributor

0:23:52.860,0:23:54.020
that so

0:23:54.020,0:23:55.460
are there Debian contributors like

0:23:55.460,0:23:57.700
the head of a translation team

0:23:57.900,0:23:59.700
be equal to

0:23:59.700,0:24:00.990
one bug report

0:24:00.990,0:24:03.510
That's the comment, I'm not saying that I agree

0:24:03.530,0:24:04.820
The way I see it

0:24:05.010,0:24:06.500
again, we can

0:24:06.500,0:24:08.030
you can tell me if you don't like this

0:24:08.030,0:24:10.310
but the way I see it, they are the same

0:24:13.710,0:24:15.060
They are Debian contributors

0:24:15.060,0:24:16.890
maybe one has been a Debian contributor

0:24:16.890,0:24:18.890
for much longer than the other

0:24:19.170,0:24:21.190
so the time span

0:24:21.190,0:24:23.940
of the contribution is the only extra

0:24:24.350,0:24:25.840
bit. Or you can click on a

0:24:25.840,0:24:27.840
a person and list their contributions

0:24:30.270,0:24:32.100
But, I don't want to

0:24:32.100,0:24:33.970
calculate a number

0:24:33.970,0:24:36.680
of how much one is a contributor

0:24:39.260,0:24:42.040
I don't see

0:24:42.060,0:24:44.210
why one would want to

0:24:44.570,0:24:46.210
rank people

0:24:46.210,0:24:47.840
by contribution

0:24:47.840,0:24:49.110
I'm not interested in that

0:24:49.110,0:24:50.850
I think it creates a kind of

0:24:50.850,0:24:52.850
community where I don't want to be in

0:24:54.940,0:24:58.000
personally, I mean, that would be my personal feeling

0:24:59.310,0:25:00.980
But I would be able to

0:25:00.980,0:25:02.980
say "thank you" even if

0:25:03.520,0:25:05.160
a person reports a bug

0:25:05.160,0:25:07.500
It takes time to report a bug

0:25:07.750,0:25:09.500
There was an idea

0:25:10.350,0:25:12.100
talking about this

0:25:12.900,0:25:14.390
informally earlier

0:25:14.560,0:25:15.560
of

0:25:15.930,0:25:18.440
having some data sources used

0:25:18.440,0:25:19.970
only to compute

0:25:19.970,0:25:21.500
the time span but not

0:25:21.500,0:25:23.260
the status of contributors

0:25:23.260,0:25:25.750
for example mailing list traffic

0:25:27.580,0:25:28.950
Maybe people don't like the idea

0:25:28.950,0:25:30.810
that if you send a e-mail to

0:25:30.810,0:25:32.810
a mailing list you are Debian contributors

0:25:33.350,0:25:34.970
There's indeed many people

0:25:34.970,0:25:37.060
who send lots of e-mails to Debian

0:25:37.060,0:25:38.130
mailing lists

0:25:38.210,0:25:39.870
but do not contribute

0:25:39.870,0:25:42.650
[Laughter] to Debian

0:25:43.910,0:25:45.090
at all

0:25:46.390,0:25:47.980
However, if somebody

0:25:47.980,0:25:50.690
is a contributor for some other reason

0:25:51.010,0:25:52.320
then it makes sense to

0:25:52.320,0:25:54.320
look at mailing list involvement

0:25:54.320,0:25:56.520
say: "Well, you reported a bug today

0:25:56.520,0:25:58.870
but you've been active in mailing lists

0:25:58.870,0:25:59.780
for a year"

0:25:59.780,0:26:01.780
so you are a Debian contributor because

0:26:02.310,0:26:03.590
you reported a bug

0:26:03.590,0:26:05.700
and you've been a Debian contributor for a year

0:26:05.700,0:26:06.620
because

0:26:06.620,0:26:09.070
you've been into Debian for a long time

0:26:10.100,0:26:11.260
so splitting

0:26:12.150,0:26:12.860
the...

0:26:12.860,0:26:14.480
I think some data sources

0:26:14.480,0:26:16.480
are only useful computing the time

0:26:16.480,0:26:18.090
and not the status

0:26:20.740,0:26:23.020
I would like to add something about

0:26:23.020,0:26:25.110
the issue with detecting the people

0:26:25.320,0:26:28.470
because we had some experiences in the team maintenance thing

0:26:28.630,0:26:30.320
and, in UDD you have

0:26:30.320,0:26:32.250
this Carnivore database

0:26:32.250,0:26:33.760
which is based on the

0:26:34.130,0:26:36.050
key fingerprint

0:26:36.050,0:26:37.260
and we even have

0:26:37.260,0:26:38.730
for these people

0:26:39.330,0:26:40.900
somebody with five

0:26:40.900,0:26:41.950
different names

0:26:41.950,0:26:44.170
names spellings and so on

0:26:44.440,0:26:46.960
people are using different e-mail addresses so

0:26:46.960,0:26:48.790
I really really really doubt

0:26:48.850,0:26:50.860
you can manage this for

0:26:51.340,0:26:54.070
say, more than 500 people

0:26:56.060,0:26:57.270
because it's

0:26:57.270,0:26:59.970
manual work and we tried it

0:26:59.980,0:27:01.410
it's hard to cope with this

0:27:01.410,0:27:04.110
No no, I don't want to do manual work

0:27:05.170,0:27:07.160
Yeah but, ok

0:27:07.160,0:27:08.850
Good luck with automatic detection

0:27:08.850,0:27:10.230
No, I don't want to do

0:27:10.230,0:27:12.920
that much automatic detection either

0:27:14.700,0:27:15.690
I would

0:27:15.850,0:27:16.950
like

0:27:18.260,0:27:20.990
things to be fixed as much as possible

0:27:20.990,0:27:22.260
and

0:27:22.630,0:27:24.960
at lower level of data sources

0:27:25.230,0:27:26.860
When that is not possible

0:27:26.860,0:27:28.860
I would like to offer people a way to

0:27:28.860,0:27:30.550
fix the data for themselves

0:27:32.690,0:27:34.010
There's that

0:27:34.270,0:27:35.750
unpronounceable and

0:27:35.750,0:27:37.500
evil web site that tracks

0:27:37.500,0:27:39.000
free software developers

0:27:39.000,0:27:41.590
that in my opinion should be illegal but isn't

0:27:42.090,0:27:44.110
it starts with "o", ohlo?

0:27:45.620,0:27:48.120
"O-l-o-h-o" something like that

0:27:48.960,0:27:50.470
I actually had an argument with

0:27:50.470,0:27:51.870
their CEO, saying

0:27:51.870,0:27:53.610
I've asked to opt out

0:27:53.610,0:27:55.890
of their system and they told me to fuck off

0:27:57.500,0:27:58.350
So

0:27:59.280,0:28:01.380
talking about privacy of these things

0:28:01.390,0:28:03.280
I guess if they can do what they do

0:28:03.280,0:28:05.480
I think we don't have a problem to say "thank you"

0:28:05.480,0:28:06.850
to a bunch of people

0:28:10.650,0:28:12.030
They do of

0:28:12.030,0:28:14.020
they have a mess, their dataset is a

0:28:14.030,0:28:14.870
a mess

0:28:14.940,0:28:16.350
but people still like them

0:28:16.680,0:28:17.880
I'm listed about

0:28:17.880,0:28:19.880
twenty times in their system

0:28:20.260,0:28:22.540
and if I really care about

0:28:22.830,0:28:25.460
contributing them my identity for free

0:28:25.880,0:28:27.390
for them to send it out

0:28:27.390,0:28:28.850
then I

0:28:29.570,0:28:30.940
can log in and

0:28:30.940,0:28:32.940
merge these identities for them

0:28:33.760,0:28:34.650
I guess

0:28:34.650,0:28:36.100
that's something we can offer

0:28:37.890,0:28:39.010
and

0:28:39.160,0:28:41.010
and that can improve things

0:28:41.010,0:28:43.010
like carnivore and so on

0:28:43.010,0:28:45.320
and possibly we can have

0:28:45.940,0:28:48.120
personal homepage...

0:28:48.710,0:28:50.750
for contributors

0:28:52.270,0:28:53.820
[Q] Where they actively

0:28:53.960,0:28:56.440
contribute to their identities?

0:28:57.640,0:28:58.910
At least we've done

0:28:58.910,0:29:00.910
all we can to thank them

0:29:01.070,0:29:01.750
but

0:29:04.900,0:29:07.210
Well, you know, if I tell you "thank you"

0:29:07.780,0:29:09.890
I don't expect you to say

0:29:10.930,0:29:14.030
"You didn't thank me in a an appropriate way"

0:29:14.440,0:29:15.210
Right?

0:29:17.230,0:29:18.350
On the other hand

0:29:20.490,0:29:22.120
I'm ok if people say

0:29:22.120,0:29:24.390
"Well, I'm also that person

0:29:24.390,0:29:27.070
you don't need to thank me so many times"

0:29:29.430,0:29:30.210
and that

0:29:30.210,0:29:33.080
that's fine, but, on the other hand

0:29:33.200,0:29:35.180
I'm perfectly happy if

0:29:35.180,0:29:36.530
people want

0:29:36.700,0:29:38.500
to use multiple identities

0:29:38.500,0:29:40.170
for contributing to Debian

0:29:40.330,0:29:42.610
Somebody in Debian science

0:29:42.780,0:29:46.130
may want to contribute to Debian games under a different name

0:29:49.790,0:29:52.480
For similar reasons, I don't want to trunk

0:29:53.550,0:29:56.110
the time frame of contributions

0:29:56.110,0:29:58.750
below the month level

0:29:59.780,0:30:00.790
I don't want

0:30:00.960,0:30:01.830
to say

0:30:01.980,0:30:05.000
"You have contributed to Debian games

0:30:05.100,0:30:06.100
between

0:30:07.530,0:30:12.050
10am to 11:30am on a Thursday

0:30:12.050,0:30:13.450
when you were at a meeting

0:30:13.450,0:30:14.660
[laughter]

0:30:14.660,0:30:15.020
Right?

0:30:17.020,0:30:18.460
So, it's

0:30:18.460,0:30:20.460
I want it to be coarse

0:30:20.820,0:30:23.860
It really needs to be mostly about thank you

0:30:23.860,0:30:25.860
and about building reputation

0:30:28.100,0:30:31.210
Reputation is also what we can reward people with

0:30:31.210,0:30:33.210
which is kind of the point of the exercise

0:30:33.640,0:30:36.200
and that reputation is nice to acknowledge

0:30:36.200,0:30:37.920
and at the same time it's nice

0:30:38.330,0:30:39.480
that we can

0:30:39.580,0:30:41.510
look up someone's reputation

0:30:41.510,0:30:42.170
at least

0:30:42.670,0:30:45.590
as a Debian account manager and Front Desk member

0:30:45.680,0:30:49.640
if I can see what's somebody's reputation and have a

0:30:50.110,0:30:51.390
reasonable look

0:30:51.510,0:30:54.930
then I can make the process much swifter for them

0:30:55.580,0:30:58.510
and especially for non uploading DDs

0:30:58.510,0:31:00.320
it's currently very hard

0:31:00.600,0:31:01.570
because

0:31:03.670,0:31:06.130
I can go and look at package changelogs

0:31:06.130,0:31:08.690
to see that they have been active for ten years in the project

0:31:10.250,0:31:11.100
and

0:31:11.100,0:31:13.510
if somebody is a non uploading DD

0:31:13.510,0:31:15.980
that has done translations at the moment

0:31:16.690,0:31:19.000
I have very hard time seeing

0:31:19.000,0:31:20.280
what they've done

0:31:20.450,0:31:22.280
possibly I don't understand the language

0:31:26.690,0:31:28.130
So, well

0:31:28.600,0:31:30.050
and that makes

0:31:30.310,0:31:31.910
makes it easier and

0:31:32.200,0:31:33.910
that another

0:31:34.330,0:31:36.070
outcome that I would really want to see

0:31:36.070,0:31:37.430
out of this is that

0:31:37.430,0:31:39.670
we start to actually see

0:31:40.050,0:31:41.370
in front of us

0:31:41.370,0:31:43.210
that Debian is not just

0:31:43.210,0:31:44.870
about technical development

0:31:46.460,0:31:47.900
There's a lot more

0:31:48.140,0:31:50.520
but if people still perceive

0:31:50.520,0:31:52.170
"Oh, I'd like to contribute to Debian but

0:31:52.170,0:31:54.170
but I'm not a technical person."

0:31:54.590,0:31:55.480
and

0:31:56.030,0:31:58.590
many of us may have

0:31:58.710,0:32:01.380
difficulty in pointing out places

0:32:01.380,0:32:03.380
but one can go and have a look at

0:32:03.380,0:32:05.480
such a list of people and say: "hey, look

0:32:06.790,0:32:09.390
there's people over there that do also other stuff

0:32:10.030,0:32:11.880
it could be indexed by

0:32:11.880,0:32:13.450
topic of contribution

0:32:13.450,0:32:14.320
as well

0:32:18.020,0:32:19.000
Again

0:32:20.600,0:32:23.390
uploading, these are contributors that do uploading

0:32:23.390,0:32:25.520
these are contributors that do translations

0:32:26.460,0:32:28.510
That may be introduced at some point

0:32:30.420,0:32:31.940
so that we

0:32:31.940,0:32:34.420
we can turn on a spotlight

0:32:34.420,0:32:36.690
in several aspects of

0:32:36.690,0:32:38.400
Debian that we usually don't look into

0:32:38.400,0:32:40.400
we just take it for granted

0:32:41.450,0:32:43.730
[Q] I have a lot of questions

0:32:43.730,0:32:44.230
Yeah?

0:32:44.230,0:32:47.260
I'm more concerned, more than anything

0:32:47.260,0:32:50.660
If this...

0:32:51.130,0:32:53.140
I mean, some

0:32:53.140,0:32:56.140
One thing that you said at the beginning is that

0:32:56.140,0:32:58.280
maybe some people would be quite interested

0:32:58.280,0:33:00.940
in this for collaborate research, for work

0:33:00.940,0:33:02.570
for creating a curriculum

0:33:02.570,0:33:03.080
[A] Yes

0:33:03.080,0:33:03.940
[Q] and

0:33:04.300,0:33:07.980
if it's as easy as to filing a bug which

0:33:07.980,0:33:09.890
can be very hard to do

0:33:09.890,0:33:12.040
depending on the bug or very easy to do

0:33:12.040,0:33:14.040
depending on how much you put in it,

0:33:14.040,0:33:16.840
wouldn't be able to

0:33:16.840,0:33:19.640
to calling people to put this

0:33:19.970,0:33:22.090
random stuff or easy stuff there

0:33:22.090,0:33:23.680
for just being in the list

0:33:23.680,0:33:24.630
Yes, well

0:33:24.630,0:33:27.380
at that point they're really bad job recruiters

0:33:28.990,0:33:31.230
Say that if there's a recruiter that just

0:33:31.230,0:33:32.710
does random google search

0:33:32.710,0:33:34.820
and contacts whoever comes out

0:33:34.930,0:33:36.260
like Google recruiters

0:33:36.930,0:33:42.270
I keep being contacted for things like managing clusters

0:33:42.780,0:33:44.620
If anyone's had a look at what I do

0:33:44.620,0:33:47.090
I don't manage clusters, right?

0:33:47.260,0:33:50.180
So, if there's recruiters like that

0:33:50.180,0:33:51.720
there's nothing you can do

0:33:51.970,0:33:55.320
If people care to actually go in and to look

0:33:55.320,0:33:57.320
at what a person has done

0:33:57.690,0:33:58.620
then

0:34:00.100,0:34:02.110
there's a way to find out

0:34:02.110,0:34:04.200
what contributions actually were

0:34:04.200,0:34:06.460
from just linking to

0:34:06.460,0:34:08.260
the usual Debian mailing list

0:34:08.260,0:34:10.570
archives or uploads or

0:34:10.570,0:34:12.570
commit logs and so on

0:34:15.699,0:34:18.880
[Q] So, if I understand correctly, you are ready to

0:34:18.880,0:34:20.780
use the BTS as a source

0:34:20.780,0:34:23.230
for the contributors, and you could have

0:34:23.230,0:34:25.600
a lot of nicknames there

0:34:25.750,0:34:28.590
It could be "the Pope" or "Bill Gates", or

0:34:28.590,0:34:31.100
the name of a serial killer or whatever

0:34:31.100,0:34:33.449
Are you ready to use that?

0:34:34.780,0:34:37.489
Maybe there could be some issue with

0:34:37.489,0:34:40.090
people that would be falsely

0:34:40.090,0:34:41.340
credited

0:34:44.760,0:34:46.730
[A] We try and see what happens

0:34:48.190,0:34:50.840
It could be that for the bug tracking system

0:34:50.840,0:34:52.400
we need to have

0:34:52.909,0:34:56.230
some extra intelligence built in to avoid crediting

0:34:56.230,0:34:58.720
China manufacturing corporations

0:34:59.720,0:35:02.950
or viagra supplies for cheap

0:35:04.880,0:35:07.500
mailing list archives are being spammed

0:35:07.860,0:35:09.500
somehow

0:35:09.500,0:35:11.240
but again

0:35:12.890,0:35:14.630
then, maybe

0:35:14.630,0:35:17.360
maybe there's lots of noise

0:35:17.360,0:35:20.660
and we want to set a threshold that one

0:35:21.820,0:35:24.970
contribution to the bug tracking system is not good to be enough

0:35:25.520,0:35:29.860
or maybe we can look if that bug was closed

0:35:32.180,0:35:34.640
because we close spam bugs

0:35:34.640,0:35:36.260
anyway

0:35:36.820,0:35:39.230
If there's cruft, if there's noise

0:35:39.230,0:35:41.040
that we can filter somehow

0:35:41.070,0:35:43.230
maybe we'll loose some contributions

0:35:43.730,0:35:46.990
but at least it wasn't for lack of trying

0:35:47.710,0:35:48.430
I mean

0:35:48.430,0:35:51.300
I don't want to go out of my way to thank someone

0:35:51.720,0:35:53.300
If I need to

0:35:53.800,0:35:55.320
find out where you live

0:35:55.320,0:35:57.050
to come to your home and say thank you

0:35:57.060,0:35:59.180
because I don't see you anymore

0:36:00.040,0:36:02.940
or because I met you in a crowded

0:36:02.940,0:36:04.840
square and you gave me directions

0:36:04.840,0:36:07.250
but I didn't take down your phone number

0:36:07.250,0:36:09.360
then, it's unfair

0:36:09.360,0:36:10.360
you won't be thanked

0:36:10.360,0:36:12.810
when I finally reach my destination, but

0:36:12.810,0:36:14.810
that's life

0:36:16.900,0:36:19.200
So

0:36:19.200,0:36:21.010
then maybe it takes

0:36:22.730,0:36:25.110
ten e-mails to the BTS

0:36:25.110,0:36:27.110
with different content

0:36:30.000,0:36:32.440
to be acknowledged

0:36:32.940,0:36:36.460
It's possibly something to be

0:36:38.160,0:36:42.350
I would leave freedom to the people doing an import

0:36:42.600,0:36:46.840
thing, something that gets data out of the bug tracking system

0:36:46.840,0:36:50.780
give that area freedom to work it out

0:36:52.000,0:36:55.580
and I don't want anyone to be perfect

0:36:55.580,0:36:58.080
The system is not going to be perfect

0:36:58.330,0:37:00.080
if

0:37:00.080,0:37:03.820
somebody would really like to be credited but

0:37:03.820,0:37:05.820
isn't in the list

0:37:05.820,0:37:09.350
and what they do is report bugs

0:37:09.600,0:37:12.900
I would be surprised because if

0:37:13.650,0:37:16.510
if somebody wants to be credited on reporting one bug

0:37:16.510,0:37:18.730
I'm going to say " Well, just upload some more"

0:37:20.200,0:37:22.970
I'm not sure I want to have people

0:37:22.970,0:37:24.500
in Debian

0:37:24.500,0:37:26.500
that contribute

0:37:26.720,0:37:28.720
in order to be credited

0:37:31.080,0:37:32.050
If

0:37:32.050,0:37:34.050
If contributing some more is

0:37:34.050,0:37:36.600
a way to get credited, then

0:37:36.760,0:37:38.600
yeah, we don't need to be perfect

0:37:38.600,0:37:40.790
just ask people to contribute some more

0:37:40.950,0:37:42.760
or if people contribute

0:37:42.760,0:37:44.760
the problem is when people contribute a lot

0:37:44.760,0:37:46.310
but they're not credited

0:37:46.310,0:37:48.750
then maybe we need to figure out how to import

0:37:48.750,0:37:51.530
data from another part of Debian that

0:37:51.530,0:37:54.140
we currently don't track so well

0:37:57.800,0:38:01.020
I'm totally not looking for perfection here

0:38:04.040,0:38:07.370
[Q] Have you thought about other ways to use mailing lists

0:38:07.370,0:38:09.950
archive because you said

0:38:09.950,0:38:12.560
we don't always want to use it as

0:38:12.560,0:38:14.560
source of contribution but more

0:38:14.560,0:38:16.640
to track the length of contribution

0:38:16.640,0:38:19.830
but there are some lists, for example

0:38:19.830,0:38:22.770
l10n translation lists

0:38:22.770,0:38:27.190
where I guess most people who contribute are real contributors

0:38:27.190,0:38:29.190
and sometimes they

0:38:29.190,0:38:31.190
also use

0:38:31.570,0:38:34.480
some code

0:38:34.480,0:38:37.090
I mean, the e-mail could be detecting

0:38:37.090,0:38:39.810
like "Request for review"

0:38:39.810,0:38:42.500
and stuff like this so you can add some hints on the

0:38:42.500,0:38:44.500
type of contribution more precise that

0:38:44.500,0:38:46.970
just "sent a mail to the mailing list"

0:38:46.970,0:38:49.800
and maybe also for a user mailing list

0:38:49.800,0:38:53.550
not tracking the question but only answers

0:38:54.100,0:38:56.180
or sort like that...

0:38:56.180,0:38:58.180
because, well, asking a question is not a real

0:38:58.180,0:39:01.040
contribution to Debian, but helping someone else to

0:39:01.040,0:39:03.040
use the Debian system is

0:39:03.040,0:39:05.040
a Debian contribution

0:39:05.760,0:39:10.000
and one of the most important one to start with I guess

0:39:12.670,0:39:16.530
[A] Decoding mailing lists patterns

0:39:16.530,0:39:18.530
fairly is not

0:39:18.530,0:39:20.530
easy as far as I understand

0:39:20.530,0:39:22.960
but I guess it changes from list to list

0:39:23.460,0:39:24.530
but

0:39:24.740,0:39:27.010
that could be solved by

0:39:27.760,0:39:30.070
adding a general mailing list

0:39:30.070,0:39:32.070
source that only looks at time frame

0:39:32.290,0:39:35.340
and having the translation team saying

0:39:35.340,0:39:37.340
"In our mailing list

0:39:37.340,0:39:39.340
there's more semantic information that can be

0:39:39.340,0:39:40.310
extracted"

0:39:40.310,0:39:42.310
so make

0:39:42.310,0:39:44.310
an extra import if

0:39:44.310,0:39:46.990
importer for my team that decodes

0:39:47.360,0:39:50.240
things and put there properly

0:39:50.240,0:39:52.240
as long as you can have

0:39:52.240,0:39:55.740
many things dumping data into a bucket

0:39:55.740,0:39:57.740
then that works

0:39:58.120,0:40:01.840
I currently have no idea

0:40:01.840,0:40:04.090
well, only vague ideas on

0:40:04.090,0:40:05.060
how...

0:40:05.670,0:40:08.330
what's the protocol to collect this data

0:40:11.140,0:40:13.500
I would

0:40:13.860,0:40:17.460
from the central bit

0:40:17.460,0:40:20.210
I wouldn't go much further than

0:40:20.210,0:40:24.680
having a list of urls from where I download something

0:40:25.590,0:40:27.570
on a regular basis

0:40:27.570,0:40:29.570
because that's the simplest

0:40:30.510,0:40:33.340
protocol to identify instead of

0:40:33.340,0:40:36.580
submits and whatnot

0:40:37.170,0:40:41.410
and what's in the file that gets downloaded

0:40:44.130,0:40:47.600
could be identity, initial time and final time

0:40:50.880,0:40:53.400
and then each datasource

0:40:53.400,0:40:56.010
makes a file available somewhere

0:40:56.450,0:40:58.840
I was thinking of something

0:40:58.840,0:41:01.730
super simple minded like that but then it's not enough

0:41:01.730,0:41:03.970
because then if you want to look

0:41:03.970,0:41:06.140
to make a link

0:41:06.140,0:41:09.000
showing the contributions then

0:41:09.690,0:41:11.490
well I need something

0:41:12.210,0:41:15.490
about how to

0:41:17.270,0:41:22.680
how to make this data available for collection

0:41:23.340,0:41:26.450
at the central point I'm only

0:41:26.450,0:41:28.450
I want it as simple minded

0:41:28.450,0:41:30.860
as possible, I don't want

0:41:32.060,0:41:35.030
the core of this to be about data collection

0:41:37.330,0:41:39.020
about mining

0:41:39.020,0:41:43.050
it should just be about collecting what as been mied

0:41:46.930,0:41:48.760
One last question?

0:41:55.090,0:41:57.500
[Q] Just a thought on what you said there is a

0:41:57.500,0:41:59.500
Google Summer of Code project

0:41:59.500,0:42:02.280
on Fedmsg

0:42:02.280,0:42:04.830
which is a ??? maybe to

0:42:04.830,0:42:06.830
have a bus

0:42:06.830,0:42:08.830
collecting lots of information from

0:42:08.830,0:42:10.830
various sources of information

0:42:10.830,0:42:12.960
among those, there's already

0:42:12.960,0:42:14.960
mentors.debian.net

0:42:14.960,0:42:17.210
and I guess the BTS would be

0:42:17.210,0:42:19.620
[A] main source? [Q] it's a source

0:42:19.620,0:42:21.200
???

0:42:21.200,0:42:26.640
yeah but I guess it could have enough metadata

0:42:26.640,0:42:30.220
like ???

0:42:30.220,0:42:34.190
the software is fedmsg

0:42:34.190,0:42:36.910
F-E-D-M-S-G

0:42:36.910,0:42:39.660
it's from Fedora and

0:42:39.660,0:42:43.350
the summer of code student is trying to adapt it for Debian

0:42:43.350,0:42:46.010
just a software bus

0:42:46.010,0:42:50.510
where you get lots of events from various sources

0:42:51.620,0:42:54.420
maybe it could be

0:42:54.420,0:42:58.610
assuming it goes further than this summer

0:42:58.610,0:43:03.660
it could be an interesting use of this project

0:43:04.440,0:43:05.490
Ok

0:43:05.490,0:43:08.710
[Chairman] As the mentor of this project, I agree

0:43:08.710,0:43:11.260
[laughter]

0:43:11.260,0:43:13.650
Ah, let's talk

0:43:21.530,0:43:25.660
and I think the student is arriving today, so

0:43:29.080,0:43:35.130
[laughter]

0:43:37.430,0:43:39.840
So, we're out of time

0:43:39.840,0:43:41.230
so, thank you Enrico

0:43:41.230,0:43:46.870
[Enrico] We can talk about this, I plan to work on it during the DebConf

0:43:47.810,0:43:53.190
shortly, that should be Martin Ferrari coming who was also

0:43:53.190,0:43:57.550
intending to work on a site, similar to this

0:43:57.550,0:43:59.770
and I get we should all get together

0:43:59.770,0:44:01.430
I can think of something

0:44:01.430,0:44:04.650
and feel free to stop me to talk about this and

0:44:04.650,0:44:06.650
offer help or

0:44:07.710,0:44:11.510
that's the main thing I want to do a DebConf

0:44:11.510,0:44:13.510
and I want to get something land before

0:44:13.510,0:44:15.510
the end of DebConf so we can

0:44:15.510,0:44:17.510
present it properly

0:44:18.110,0:44:29.630
[applause]