Deaf Social Worker Student EDIT.m4v

Hello.

Hi there.

I am Julia Clark Kennedy, and I’m
one of the BDA outreach workers.

Could you introduce yourself please?

I am Lisa Karlsson. Thank you for
inviting me to come and talk to you.

Welcome and thank you.

I want to chat about something that
relates to the BSL (Scotland) Act 2015,

under the strand of education.
Can you tell us a bit about yourself

and your university course?

Sure, I am currently at university
studying to become a social worker

on a BA honours course. I am in my final
year and should graduate this June.

Altogether I have been
studying for five years.

Wow. Very impressive.
Well done you!

Thank you.

I was just wondering, thinking back to
the start of your university days,

did you feel that the journey ahead
of you would be an easy one?

Or were you anticipating difficulties in
terms of access as a Deaf person?

A bit of both really. On the one hand,
I thought some things would be difficult,

but on the other hand, there were
things I was not worried about,

for example, I was very motivated to
study the subject and was really keen

to become a social worker,
so I wasn’t worried about that.

I did anticipate that there would
be barriers for me as a Deaf person.

Going back to the beginning,
I started with an HNC at college.

Interpreters were provided there
and that worked pretty well.

The only gripe I had really was that the
college picked their own interpreters,

so I did not get to express a preference
for who I wanted to work with.

I did have my own preferred interpreters
but had to work with the interpreters the

college supplied and that
was difficult at times.

I’m guessing you wanted to work with
people who are familiar with your

signing and the course content?

Exactly. People who I had already
worked with and gelled well with.

I ended up with lots of different people
who were brought in by the college and

that was quite a struggle at times,
but it wasn’t awful.

I did try explaining that it would be better
if I could choose my own interpreters,

people I knew who could meet my
requirements, but the college would only

agree to me picking one and
they chose the other one.

I’m not sure why they decided that.
That was how things were at the start.

The BSL (Scotland) Act 2015 has been useful.
I was able to use the legislation to push

for my rights, since my language
was now a recognised language.

After I explained why I felt it was important,
they did agree to me picking one interpreter.

And that was my first year.

And then you went on to university.
How was it there? Was it better than college?

Or did you face the same difficulties?

It was much better at university in my
view, because university offers a higher

standard of education. The HNC course,
which I did really enjoy, was my first

experience of studying in a hearing environment.
Previously I had been to a Deaf college,

so this was the first time I had studied
alongside hearing students.

It was the first time I had encountered
those barriers to learning.

By the time I got to university I had
already been through a year’s experience

at college, so I was prepared. I started
university in September 2019,

but attended a meeting prior to
starting, with the lecturers.

I was the only Deaf person
there and I felt very anxious.

Did you have an interpreter?

Yes, yes there was an interpreter there.
It was an interesting meeting, but I could

see that some of the lecturers were a little
unsure of me, they didn’t know what to

make of me as a Deaf person.

Do you think they were concerned
whether you could do the course?

I can’t say for sure, but maybe, yes.
I told them that I understood the

social work degree was obviously a
professional course and I was aware of

the expectations, and it was the
profession that I wanted to get into.

They had already offered me a place,
so I was definitely going to be coming.

I suggested that they arrange for some
Deaf awareness training before I started,

well on my first day actually, so that
my classmates could attend it too.

I felt that would mean there was less
chance of being singled out or avoided

and it would reduce the
chance of discrimination.

They were agreeable to that, and
because of the BSL (Scotland) Act,

which recognises my language and my
rights as a Deaf person to interpreters

and equal access, etc., they were
agreeable to doing this. I think they were

just unsure how I would get on. We agreed
that I would see how my first year went,

and if it was too much of a struggle,
we would discuss whether I would stay

or change to another course. I thought
that was fair enough. I also had some

some uncertainty if I am honest about
my ability to cope with the course.

I figured we would just see how it went.

So, on my first day I arrived and a
Deaf awareness trainer came in to deliver

the training. I struggled with that a bit
actually, because previously I had worked

in the University as a BSL tutor and
Deaf awareness trainer, but this time

I was on the receiving end, as a student.
I just had to sit there and keep quiet and

let the tutor get on with it. It went well
though and I felt that it offered me some

level of support. I navigated my first year
successfully. There were struggles.

For example, on the Social Work course,
you have to choose some elective modules.

I opted for an education module because
I figured if I liked it, perhaps I could change

tack and become a teacher. Anyway, I didn’t
like it. Absolutely hated it. I realised it really

wasn’t for me. The lecturer for that module
was older and not very Deaf aware at all.

They had not participated in the
Deaf awareness training because the

module sat as part of a different
course in another department.

One day in class, I was there with my
two interpreters and the lecturer came

over to talk to the student sitting
next to me. One of my interpreters

came over to interpret their conversation,
and the lecturer told them to stop signing

because it was a private conversation.
I was rather taken aback by this.

It was my first experience of discrimination,
so I responded, saying that if it was a private

conversation, it might be better if they
took it into the hallway when nobody

could overhear them. There were obviously
other students around who were within

listening distance, but they
were not asked to move.

I said it was not right to exclude me,
but they repeated their request for the

interpreter to stop signing and
ask the interpreter to move away.

I was raging by this point, so when the
class finished, I approached the lecturer

again and said that it was not okay to
do that, and that it was discriminatory.

I felt I had to challenge their behaviour.
They can’t just block my interpretation

of what is being said when other students
have access to it. So that was my first

negative experience.

It's good that you were able to be
assertive though.

I was assertive, but I had to be.
I had to challenge that point and

just hold onto it. It was discrimination
and I was right to challenge it.

I was not aggressive or rude but saw it
more as an educational opportunity,

a learning point for them to understand
it really was not something they should

ever do. Anyway, during that first year there
were a few other instances, but I did feel

that the University had my
back and was supportive.

How did you use the BSL (Scotland)
Act 2015? How did you use it to get

people to change their practice and
behaviour and accept their responsibilities?

Really, the BSL Act required education
centres have to have BSL plans which

they have to follow, which helped.
Also, I feel that the Act protects me,

it acts as a barrier. Before we had it,
there was nothing, but now I have

something to direct people to.
I can point out the Act and highlight

the fact that I have language rights
under the Act. I have the right to

an interpreter, and you can’t take that
away; the same with a notetaker,

because that’s what the Act says.
When I have brought up the Act defence

of my rights, often people have never
heard of it, so I have had to educate them.

And these are social workers were
talking about, people who work within

the Deaf community. They should know
about this, and often they don’t, although

they are interested. The BSL (Scotland)
Act 2015 is well known within the University now,

because I have made sure
that everybody is aware of it.

Do you feel that the university now
has improved because of you?

Well really, the university is a big place
with lots of different departments so

it’s a lot of work to get everybody up to
peed on, so I would not say there has

been a 100% improvement across-the-board.
That would be too difficult to achieve because

there are always new members of
staff being recruited. There is a lot

of staff turnover. I would say though
that over the four years I have

been at university I have spent
considerable time educating people

about the BSL Act. I had to do the
same when I was on placement.

I had two placements, which were
important because they prove my fitness

to practice as a social worker. At my first
placement, I pushed for Deaf awareness

awareness training when I started.
I wanted people to understand that they

could trust that I was up to the job.
I had an interpreter with me so had

access to communication and was
able to understand everything just fine.

I wanted them to understand that my
brain works fine, and I am capable of

doing the job with appropriate
adjustments. My second placement was

more statutory, involving councils and
government at quite a high level.

The department was very busy and
work had to be turned over quickly.

I felt that my first placement, which was
within the third sector, was much more

laid-back than the second placement.
I had supervisors in both places, but in

my second placement, supervision was much
less frequent. The second placement was

the final opportunity for me to show
my fitness to practice. I was there for

six months through the summer last year
and I confess I was nervous. I explained

that I was Deaf and would be working
with an interpreter. I knew that I would

have to prepare them for that.
On my first placement, my supervisior

informed my case clients that I was Deaf
and asked if they were prepared to work

with me or not, so they were given a
choice and entered into a voluntary

voluntary agreement to work with me
if they chose to do so. On the second placement,

this did not happen. Cases were allocated
to me whether people liked it or not.

That gave me a taste of how
I would manage in the real world.

Before I made first contact with any
cases I would contact them to inform

them I was Deaf, and would be
attending with an interpreter.

I wanted to be open about this and
invite any questions beforehand.

It was really difficult, but I feel that the
first few weeks were the hardest and

then it became easier, and I was more
able to just get on with it fairly quickly.

You started from scratch really, in terms
of educating those who you were working with.

I can understand how it must have been
difficult at the start, particularly given that

you were trying to educate professionals,
lecturers, teachers, social workers and so on.

I would imagine that the next Deaf student
on that course will definitely find things a

bit easier. I’m sure you’ve opened
a lot of doors for them.

Well it’s lucky for them really. It’s nice
that something positive has come from this.

I learned a lot from my time at university,
but I think the university learnt a lot from me too.

There was definitely a collaboration.
When I finish my dissertation in April,

the university has asked me to work with
them on a new project for improving BSL access.

There is another Deaf student on the
Social Work course now so it’s really

positive that Deaf people feel able
to come and train here.

I do feel like I have opened a lot of doors
as you say, during my time here.

It’s good that might help others who follow.
I do hope though that as lecturers and

students are replaced with new faces that
the university does not go back to square one.

I hope that the information they have
learned from me will stay and become embedded.

It’s been really lovely talking to you Lisa.
Thank you so much for coming.

Such an inspirational story. You’ve done
amazingly well. Congratulations.

Thank you.

Thank you. Goodbye.