How whistle-blowers shape history
-
0:02 - 0:04How many of us have ever seen something,
-
0:04 - 0:07thought that we should report it,
but decided not to? -
0:09 - 0:11And not that I need
to see a show of hands, -
0:11 - 0:14but I'm sure this has happened
to someone in this room before. -
0:14 - 0:17In fact, when this question
was asked to a group of employees, -
0:17 - 0:2146 percent of them responded
by saying that they had seen something -
0:21 - 0:23and decided not to report it.
-
0:23 - 0:26So if you raised your hand,
or quietly raised your hand, -
0:26 - 0:28don't feel bad, you're not alone.
-
0:28 - 0:31This message of if you see something
to say something -
0:31 - 0:33is really all around us.
-
0:33 - 0:37Even when driving down the highway,
you see billboards like this, -
0:37 - 0:40encouraging us to report crime
without revealing ourselves. -
0:40 - 0:43But I still feel like a lot of us
are really uncomfortable -
0:43 - 0:45coming forward in the name of the truth.
-
0:45 - 0:48I'm an accounting professor,
and I do fraud research. -
0:48 - 0:52And in my class, I encourage my students
to come forward with information -
0:52 - 0:53if they see it.
-
0:53 - 0:57Or in other words, encouraging
my students to become whistle-blowers. -
0:57 - 1:00But if I'm being completely
honest with myself, -
1:00 - 1:04I am really conflicted with this message
that I'm sending to my students. -
1:04 - 1:05And here's why.
-
1:06 - 1:09Whistle-blowers are under attack.
-
1:10 - 1:13Headline after headline shows us this.
-
1:14 - 1:16Many people choose
not to become whistle-blowers -
1:16 - 1:19due to the fear of retaliation.
-
1:19 - 1:22From demotions to death threats,
-
1:22 - 1:24to job loss --
-
1:24 - 1:26perpetual job loss.
-
1:26 - 1:30Choosing to become a whistle-blower
is an uphill battle. -
1:30 - 1:32Their loyalty becomes into question.
-
1:32 - 1:35Their motives, their trustworthiness.
-
1:35 - 1:39So how can I, as a professor
who really cares about her students -
1:39 - 1:41encourage them to become whistle-blowers,
-
1:41 - 1:44when I know how the world
truly feels about them? -
1:45 - 1:48So, one day I was getting ready
for my annual whistle-blower lecture -
1:48 - 1:49with my students.
-
1:49 - 1:51And I was working
on an article for "Forbes," -
1:51 - 1:54entitled "Wells Fargo
and Millennial Whistle-blowing. -
1:54 - 1:55What Do We Tell Them?"
-
1:55 - 1:58And as I was working on this piece
and reading about the case, -
1:58 - 2:00I became outraged.
-
2:00 - 2:04And what made me angry
was when I came to the fact and realized -
2:04 - 2:06that the employees
that tried to whistle-blow -
2:06 - 2:08were actually fired.
-
2:08 - 2:09And it really made me think
-
2:10 - 2:12about the message
that I was sharing with my students. -
2:12 - 2:17And it made me think: What if my students
had been Wells Fargo employees? -
2:17 - 2:21On the one hand, if they whistle-blew,
they would have gotten fired. -
2:21 - 2:23But on the other hand,
-
2:23 - 2:25if they didn't report
the frauds that they knew, -
2:25 - 2:28the way current regulation is written,
-
2:28 - 2:30employees are held responsible
-
2:30 - 2:33if they knew something
and didn't report it. -
2:33 - 2:36So criminal prosecution is a real option.
-
2:36 - 2:39What's a person supposed to do
with those type of odds? -
2:39 - 2:43I of all people know
the valuable contributions -
2:43 - 2:44that whistle-blowers make.
-
2:44 - 2:48In fact, most frauds
are discovered by them. -
2:48 - 2:51Forty two percent of frauds
are discovered by a whistle-blower -
2:51 - 2:53in comparison to other methods,
-
2:53 - 2:55like measurement review
and external audit. -
2:55 - 2:58And when you think
about some of the more classic -
2:58 - 2:59or historical fraud cases,
-
2:59 - 3:02it always is around a whistle-blower.
-
3:02 - 3:05Think Watergate --
discovered by a whistle-blower. -
3:05 - 3:08Think Enron -- discovered
by a whistle-blower. -
3:08 - 3:12And who can forget about Bernard Madoff,
discovered by a whistle-blower? -
3:12 - 3:17It takes a tremendous amount of courage
to come forward in the name of the truth. -
3:17 - 3:20But when we think
about the term whistle-blower, -
3:20 - 3:23we often think of some
very descriptive words: -
3:23 - 3:24rat,
-
3:25 - 3:27snake,
-
3:27 - 3:29traitor,
-
3:29 - 3:31tattletale, weasel.
-
3:31 - 3:35And those are the nice words,
the ones I can say from the stage. -
3:35 - 3:36And so when I'm not in class,
-
3:36 - 3:39I go around the country
and I interview white-collar felons, -
3:39 - 3:41whistle-blowers and victims of fraud.
-
3:41 - 3:44Because really I'm trying to understand
what makes them tick -
3:44 - 3:47and to bring those experiences
back into the classroom. -
3:48 - 3:52But it's my interviews with
whistle-blowers that really stick with me. -
3:52 - 3:53And they stick with me,
-
3:53 - 3:55because they make me question
my own courage. -
3:55 - 3:59When given the opportunity,
would I actually speak up? -
3:59 - 4:02And so, this is a couple stories
that I want to share with you. -
4:02 - 4:03This is Mary.
-
4:03 - 4:07Mary Willingham is the whistle-blower
from the University of North Carolina -
4:07 - 4:10at Chapel Hill, academic fraud case.
-
4:10 - 4:14And Mary was a learning specialist
at the university, -
4:14 - 4:17and she worked with students,
primarily student athletes. -
4:17 - 4:19And what she noticed,
when she was working with students, -
4:19 - 4:22is they were turning in term papers
-
4:22 - 4:25that seemed well beyond
their reading levels. -
4:25 - 4:27She started to ask a couple of questions
-
4:27 - 4:29and she found out
that there was a database -
4:29 - 4:33where the student athletes
could retrieve papers and turn them in. -
4:33 - 4:35And then she found out
that some of her colleagues -
4:35 - 4:41were funneling students into fake classes,
just to keep them eligible to play. -
4:41 - 4:44Now, when Mary found this out,
she was outraged. -
4:44 - 4:47And so what she tried to do
was go to her direct supervisor. -
4:47 - 4:49But they didn't do anything.
-
4:49 - 4:53And then Mary tried to go to some
internal university administrators. -
4:53 - 4:54And they didn't do anything.
-
4:54 - 4:57So, what happens when nobody listens?
-
4:57 - 4:58You blog.
-
4:58 - 5:00So Mary decided to develop a blog.
-
5:00 - 5:03Her blog went viral within 24 hours,
-
5:03 - 5:05and she was contacted by a reporter.
-
5:05 - 5:07Now, when she was contacted
by this reporter, -
5:08 - 5:09her identity was known.
-
5:09 - 5:11She was exposed.
-
5:11 - 5:14And when she was exposed,
she received a demotion, -
5:15 - 5:18death threats, over collegiate sports.
-
5:18 - 5:22Mary didn't do anything wrong.
She didn't participate in the fraud. -
5:22 - 5:24She really thought
that she was giving voice -
5:24 - 5:27to students that were voiceless.
-
5:27 - 5:29But her loyalty was questioned.
-
5:29 - 5:32Her trustworthiness and her motives.
-
5:33 - 5:37Now, whistle-blowing
doesn't always have to end -
5:37 - 5:39in demotions or death threats.
-
5:39 - 5:43Actually, in 2002, this was
the cover of "Time" magazine, -
5:43 - 5:46where we were actually honoring
three brave whistle-blowers -
5:46 - 5:49for their decision to come forward
in the name of the truth. -
5:49 - 5:51And when you look at the research,
-
5:51 - 5:5422 percent of whistle-blowers
actually report retaliation. -
5:54 - 6:00So there is a huge population of people
that report and are not retaliated against -
6:00 - 6:01and that gives me hope.
-
6:02 - 6:04So this is Kathe.
-
6:04 - 6:08Kathe Swanson is a retired city clerk
from the city of Dixon. -
6:08 - 6:12And one day, Kathe was doing her job,
just like she always did, -
6:12 - 6:16and she stumbled upon
a pretty interesting case. -
6:16 - 6:18See, Kathe was at the end of the month,
-
6:18 - 6:20and she was doing
her treasures report for the city, -
6:21 - 6:25and typically, her boss, Rita Crundwell,
gave her a list of accounts and said, -
6:25 - 6:28"Kathe, call the bank
and get these specific accounts." -
6:28 - 6:29And Kathe did her job.
-
6:29 - 6:31But this particular day,
-
6:31 - 6:33Rita was out of town, and Kathe was busy.
-
6:33 - 6:38She picks up the phone, she calls the bank
and says, "Fax me all of the accounts." -
6:38 - 6:42And when she gets the fax,
she sees that there is an account -
6:42 - 6:44that has some withdrawals
and deposits in it -
6:44 - 6:45that she did not know about.
-
6:45 - 6:49It was an account controlled only by Rita.
-
6:49 - 6:53So Kathe looked at the information,
she reported it to her direct supervisor, -
6:53 - 6:55which was then-mayor Burke,
-
6:55 - 6:59and this led into a huge investigation,
a six-month investigation. -
6:59 - 7:04Come to find out, Kathe's boss,
Rita Crundwell, was embezzling money. -
7:04 - 7:09Rita was embezzling 53 million dollars
over a 20-year period, -
7:09 - 7:12and Kathe just happened
to stumble upon it. -
7:13 - 7:16Kathe is a hero.
-
7:16 - 7:18And actually, I had the opportunity
-
7:18 - 7:21of interviewing Kathe for my documentary,
"All the Queen's Horses." -
7:21 - 7:23And Kathe wasn't seeking fame.
-
7:24 - 7:27In fact, she really didn't want
to talk to me for a really long time, -
7:27 - 7:30but through strategic stalking,
she ended up doing the interview. -
7:30 - 7:31(Laughter)
-
7:31 - 7:33But she was seeking fairness, not fame.
-
7:34 - 7:35And if it wasn't for Kathe,
-
7:35 - 7:38who's to say this fraud
would have ever been discovered? -
7:39 - 7:42So, remember that "Forbes" article
I was talking about, -
7:42 - 7:44that I was working on before my lecture?
-
7:44 - 7:47Well, I posted it and something
really fantastic happened. -
7:47 - 7:52I started receiving emails
from whistle-blowers all over the world. -
7:52 - 7:56And as I was receiving these emails
and responding back to them, -
7:56 - 7:58there was a common theme
in the message that I received, -
7:58 - 7:59and this is what it was:
-
8:00 - 8:04they all said this, "I blew the whistle,
people really hate me now. -
8:04 - 8:06I got fired, but guess what?
-
8:06 - 8:09I would do it all over again if I could."
-
8:10 - 8:13And so as I kept reading this message,
all these messages, -
8:13 - 8:16I wanted to think,
what could I share with my students? -
8:16 - 8:19And so, I pulled it all together
and this is what I learned. -
8:19 - 8:22It's important for us to cultivate hope.
-
8:22 - 8:24Whistle-blowers are hopeful.
-
8:24 - 8:26Despite popular belief,
-
8:26 - 8:30they're not all disgruntled employees
that have a beef with the company. -
8:30 - 8:34Their hopefulness really is
what drives them to come forward. -
8:34 - 8:37We also have to cultivate commitment.
-
8:37 - 8:39Whistle-blowers are committed.
-
8:39 - 8:41And it's that passion
to their organization -
8:41 - 8:43that makes them want to come forward.
-
8:44 - 8:45Whistle-blowers are humble.
-
8:45 - 8:49Again, they're not seeking fame,
but they are seeking fairness. -
8:49 - 8:52And we need to continue
to cultivate bravery. -
8:52 - 8:54Whistle-blowers are brave.
-
8:54 - 8:57Often, they underestimated
-
8:57 - 9:00the impact whistle-blowing
had on their family, -
9:00 - 9:05but what they continue to comment on
is how hard it is to withhold the truth. -
9:06 - 9:09With that, I want to leave you
with one additional name: -
9:09 - 9:10Peter Buxtun.
-
9:11 - 9:17Peter Buxtun was a 27-year-old
employee for the US Public Health Service. -
9:17 - 9:21And he was hired to interview people
-
9:21 - 9:24that had sexually transmitted diseases.
-
9:24 - 9:26And through the course of his work,
-
9:26 - 9:30he noticed a clinical study
that was going on within the organization. -
9:30 - 9:34And it was a study that was looking
at the progression of untreated syphilis. -
9:34 - 9:37And so, there were
600 African American males -
9:37 - 9:38that were in this study.
-
9:38 - 9:39They were enticed into the study
-
9:40 - 9:43through being given
free medical exams, burial insurance. -
9:43 - 9:47And so, what happened
through the course of this study, -
9:47 - 9:52is penicillin was discovered
to help treat syphilis. -
9:52 - 9:54And what Peter noticed was,
-
9:54 - 9:58the participants in this study
were not given the penicillin -
9:58 - 10:00to treat their syphilis.
-
10:00 - 10:01And the participants didn't know.
-
10:01 - 10:07So similar to Mary, Peter tried to report
and talk to his internal supervisors, -
10:07 - 10:08but no one listened.
-
10:08 - 10:11And so Peter thought
this was completely unfair -
10:11 - 10:12and he tried to report again,
-
10:12 - 10:16and finally talked to a reporter --
very similar to Mary. -
10:16 - 10:20And in 1972, this was the front page
of the "New York Times": -
10:20 - 10:24"Syphilis Victims in US Study
Went Untreated for 40 Years." -
10:26 - 10:30This is known to us today
as the Tuskegee syphilis experiment. -
10:30 - 10:32And Peter was the whistle-blower.
-
10:32 - 10:36What happened to the 600 men,
you may wonder, the 600 original men? -
10:36 - 10:39Twenty eight men died from syphilis.
-
10:39 - 10:43One hundred died
from syphilis complications, -
10:43 - 10:44forty wives were infected
-
10:44 - 10:47and 10 children were born
with congenital syphilis. -
10:47 - 10:50Who's to say what these numbers would be
-
10:50 - 10:54if it wasn't for the brave,
courageous act of Peter? -
10:54 - 10:56We're all connected to Peter, actually.
-
10:56 - 10:59If you know anybody
that's in a clinical trial, -
10:59 - 11:02the reason why we have
informed consent today -
11:02 - 11:04is because of Peter's courageous act.
-
11:05 - 11:07So let me ask you a question.
-
11:07 - 11:10That original question,
a variation of the original question. -
11:10 - 11:13How many of us have ever used the term
-
11:13 - 11:16snitch, rat
-
11:16 - 11:17tattletale,
-
11:17 - 11:19snake,
-
11:19 - 11:21weasel,
-
11:21 - 11:22leak?
-
11:23 - 11:24Anybody?
-
11:28 - 11:31Before you get the urge to do that again,
-
11:31 - 11:33I want you to think a little bit.
-
11:33 - 11:36It might be the Mary,
the Peter, the Kathes of the world. -
11:37 - 11:40You might be the person
that could shape history, -
11:40 - 11:43or they could be the person
that shapes yours. -
11:43 - 11:44Thank you.
-
11:44 - 11:48(Applause)
- Title:
- How whistle-blowers shape history
- Speaker:
- Kelly Richmond Pope
- Description:
-
Fraud researcher and documentary filmmaker Kelly Richmond Pope shares lessons from some of the most high-profile whistle-blowers of the past, explaining how they've shared information that has shaped society -- and why they need our trust and protection.
- Video Language:
- English
- Team:
closed TED
- Project:
- TEDTalks
- Duration:
- 12:01
![]() |
Natsuhiko Mizutani commented on English subtitles for How whistle-blowers shape history | |
![]() |
Brian Greene edited English subtitles for How whistle-blowers shape history | |
![]() |
Brian Greene approved English subtitles for How whistle-blowers shape history | |
![]() |
Brian Greene edited English subtitles for How whistle-blowers shape history | |
![]() |
Joanna Pietrulewicz accepted English subtitles for How whistle-blowers shape history | |
![]() |
Joanna Pietrulewicz edited English subtitles for How whistle-blowers shape history | |
![]() |
Joanna Pietrulewicz edited English subtitles for How whistle-blowers shape history | |
![]() |
Ivana Korom edited English subtitles for How whistle-blowers shape history |
Natsuhiko Mizutani
2:53 "measurement review" should be "management review".
This term can be found in a fraud detection report as in https://www.acfe.com/rttn2016/detection.aspx