https:/.../30c3-5491-en-No_Neutral_Ground_in_a_Burning_World_h264-hq.mp4

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so
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today we want to talk to you about the role of technology in society
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in the longer arc have human history
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Tom would like to take it would like you all to take a couple things away from
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this talk
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om the
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interaction between a piece of technology into pieces and
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and society is rarely settled in
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you know two or three years or ten years we're still as a society just barely
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learning how to use
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email I if you think even in the past five or 10 years
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the way emails used in professional context has changed radically we don't
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really know what it means yet
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am we think we have a reasonable understanding of how you use an
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auditorium
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we figured that one out mostly are
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the other thing we'd like to talk about here and we'd like you to take away from
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here
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is that welke culture
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kind of grew up is an outsider culture
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that changed on it's at the heart of politics in the heart of social
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movements now
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because it's the hard how we communicate now geek culture and and hacker culture
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used to be relatively apolitical
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but now every action that you take and every piece of code that you ride
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has political effects now you may intend somebody's a fact you may not intend to
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master these are facts
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but there there and we need to start thinking about and understanding these
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changes
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and this is a change that's happened in our lifetimes so
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Quinn is mostly a kind in coherent lenders
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anti-capitalist anarchism in California libertarianism
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in l.a is marxists in the quest presumably with blood on our hands
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but says she likes me a lot she's promised me six minutes notice on the
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purge before it happens I get a head start
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I'm despite the political party the stalk
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this talk is not about our politics I it not about what
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Allah or I want you to do it's about what we've learned from examining
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the network a fact that we live with now on
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because fundamentally and many have you recognize this the fundamentally
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and architecture how the politics and it has a culture
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and while we were all kind of sitting around in
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our culture and Usenet in the nineties or wherever we got our start
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kinda being like ellis et outsiders
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the world pivoted it changed and surrounded us and put us at the heart
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these matters and so whatever you
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one to do politically what we're gonna be talking about
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is the framework of the politics that technology is creating
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around the world right now sOooo
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10 the one other really
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interesting structures in the world right now that we spend a lot of time
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dealing with our state's
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states have a couple a very basic things that they require to be able to interact
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with the world
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they need to be able to see their territory and the people who live in
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that territory
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if they're going to be able to interact with them and
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this is this is simply a truth that applies to anything
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to any time where someone needs to interact with the thing
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if you can't perceive a thing you can't interact with it
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am this map here's the plan city of Brasilia
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which is the a city that was built
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to be legible to be understandable to the state the notion that a state should
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if nothing else even if it can't understand all the rest of its territory
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all over each other cities it should be able to understand the city
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from which it governs um of course
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I don't know how many if you're familiar with the actual city of Brasilia
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but it doesn't look much like what's indicated on that map
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reality has kind of come back in and gotten about a lot messier again
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so a lot of the time com the ability of a state
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to see its citizens and to see its train is actually a very very good thing
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this is the snow map which founded modern epidemiology at a map of cholera
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deaths and London
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around a particular while when they didn't understand
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that com water and that the cholera was spread through water
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arm this map
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told us things about human disease transmission
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that have saved at least tens of millions of lives
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and this is a former surveillance
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sometimes this is a bad thing this is a map that the city of Amsterdam prepared
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from their very complete census records
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up where all the Jews were in Amsterdam for the nazis
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during the process as
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kind of the societal adjustments following the revolution in France
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arm and this was actually wanted the demands leading up to the revolution
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from certain sectors the society
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com the a revolutionary government has continued under Napoleon
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standardized on the metric system am
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one of the things that this did was that it he's a lot of the burdens on farmers
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who
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we're having to deal with incompatible local unit systems
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being used to basically rip them off from what they should have earned a net
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profits
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but it also laid the groundwork for tax standardization
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and for central control arm to paraphrase
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shutter beyond what he said at the time you know if someone's using the metric
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system
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that their narc in other words you know that if someone is using the metric
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system they work for the government they work for the order that is attempting
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to impose legibility on society
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interested Quinn in the fourth century BC
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no relation the a
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the Emperor decided that imposing
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surnames on the population was a good idea
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on they needed to be able to
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I construct people for labor and for the military they needed to be able to tax
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people
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and they needed to be able to apply laws to families
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I now many the ruling families in this is true throughout the world
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in places where names have been have been put into force not been imposed on
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people
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many the ruling families already had surnames were frequent hatch to wear
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that lived her
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or where they ruled on the common people had all sorts of different ways and
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being known
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and if you imagine you've got a dozen different ways that you can be named
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and you might have some reasons to not want to be
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legible to the state this is very very convenient for you
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so assigning patrons was away as changing that power structure
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and along the way it may have also changed some other power structures in
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the family
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it's not clear but one of the things that
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they attempted to do was to make the arm
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rested the to make the head of a family responsible for all the action to the
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rest to the family
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which you could reasonably see might have some arm
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some cultural shifts now this is really interesting because it shows that the
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vision and the state has consequences
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when the state looks at the world it makes things fall into the box is that
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it's measuring
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even if they didn't before in other words
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networks weird legibility
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cell I'm i this is i think have a controversial statement in this room
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right now
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but I think that surveillance is actually a form of human concern
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human attention in human concern and
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and surveillance is what we do when we care about something
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I at some times that care takes positive forms
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got coming back to the collar map I sometimes
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it allows us to build infrastructure that works for a lot of people sometimes
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it allows us
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to prevent disease and feed children and so on and so forth
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and sometimes it's used for political control it's always used in some way
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I have concern and like technology
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and many political qualities it is neither good nor bad doors in Utah
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excuse me who on and
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and I think that some when things we have to bear in mind in this particular
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age of surveillance
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and is that to in many ways
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surveillance is a small touches that we do on each other surveillance is when we
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check up on each other and stuff like that
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so finding a way to cast that's where we can reclaim the positive
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and suppress the negative is I think much more the task then to fight all
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surveillance
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it's a much more subtle question then it would seem right now
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on but when we talk about this kinda vision of the state
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the status watcher the state as some as arbiter money for instance
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the news cycle we have right now if we want to take it back
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all the way to I for century BC China
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this isn't this all makes more sense
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now it makes sense that that nations are trying to get all the information they
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can
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because they're trying again to make their world legible
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and when they get all that information they're putting into categories that
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they perceive
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are meaningful and
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and that means destroying by ignoring the ones that are
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I think one thing that's really useful about reading this history is it gives
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you a measure of prediction
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on what states are gonna wanna do with technology
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they want to keep tabs on their people for good and bad reasons and there's
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always both good and bad reasons I'm
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and they want to take the power
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that they get by being the state and use it to mold
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the country that they're in that has been
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a tremendously progressive force in history and a tremendously destructive
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one but it still comes from the same fundamental
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impulse and this is why it's really easy for me to stand up and say
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a statement always spy on its people as much as they possibly can
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because Steve always have not just to maintain their power but just to
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maintain
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the ability to control consequences which is a point that will return to
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later
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so we're in an on time history and i wanna actually rollback
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to I am another moment in history
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introduce you for two William Tindal from the 16th century
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and Tindal I'm had to flee one day from his native England
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and he never set foot in England again he died outside England
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up because he decided to translate it said would you wanna do with translate
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the Bible into English
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now centuries before this this was always a contentious issue
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translated the Bible into the local language I it was generally in Latin
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I'm at centuries before this Pope Innocent the third had
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had essentially and sentenced to death
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people that would try to do something like this he
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the lady was never even to touch the Bible it was to be interpreted and
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handed down
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from on high by the church because the church
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with the people who have the knowledge to understand it it was a top-down
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picture and Tindal was part of a movement
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they wanted people to be able to take control of their own Christianity
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he was opposed by as Sir Thomas More
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now Saint Thomas More I'm who believed that
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the church was necessary to keep order if this is sounding a bit Hobbesian
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that's because it is a hot team today and it is one that we are still kinda
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I too would like in the third activists I used to think this is a good metaphor
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for where we are now but actually I think this is just the same thing going
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on
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so more in 10 Dale got into a huge fight
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and more was on the runner's high today was on the run more worse
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was sitting with p.m. henry the eighth and they got into
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a big argument and this argument spanned con the continent
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at various points about whether or not the Bible should be in English
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and people should be able to interpret their own religion
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on and of course that got started because this guy
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at Martin Luther who created up and shove
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at the season staple them to door and then and then sent them all around the
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continent
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again nothing on this list above church reforms that Luther in 10 day on the
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whole crew wanted were new
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not thing was new what was new was a if you were
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Martin Luther you wanted to say the church needs to reform and you gonna
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force
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and to go tell people that that's what you believed the church would burden you
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I but something had changed and this is also how
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Tindal and I mean it this the statement
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10 they all ran away and then they had a fight for years
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doesn't make any sense to most people in that area
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and it just sounds assumed to us because I've a communication technology in this
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case that communication technology
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on is the printing press
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I'm so on Luther was able to put out as they fight the cysts it
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safely with patron in Germany and say the church need to reform
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and the church dedication to be like could you send them from eating and he's
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like
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I'll stay here in Germany it's fine and I'm
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and no originally though the printing press
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had been a huge to love the church
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the more the biggest customers a printing
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am not just to print bibles but also standardize the interpretation of the
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religion everywhere they could print things out send them
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out all Europe and gain control
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and again legibility on their religion make sure that everybody had the right
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materials
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that there was no corruption in them and spread them everywhere
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and that went on for a few years and then the dissidents got a hold of this
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technology
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and it turned out they could do the same thing the church could do
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so the big question hanging over the 16th century
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was was the printing press going to reform the Catholic Church
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well in fact the printing press reformed
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everything on the planet and possibly few things of the plaque
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so they didn't even have a language to ask the right question
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for the undertaking that they were embarking on
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so Tindal and more were two threads inside one institutional power
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but there are a lot of kinds of power in society not just one
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arm the church has waned in authority
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capitalism was in many ways just getting started this was the birth at the East
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India
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company this was the birth a mercantilism in that same era
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on but the power guns in the power of money and the power of God
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are just three different kinds of power and they'll let you do different kinds
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of things they're not
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commence herbal with each other they don't act on each other they don't
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act on themselves if you have a pile of money that doesn't lessen
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necessarily let you directly influence
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what someone else who has a pile of money wants to do now
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you can maybe take away their money or
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force them to do something else because you bought the thing that they were
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trying to buy first
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om but there's a lot of subtlety here in terms of how
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power acts and this is one of the things that
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seems to be occasionally getting missed while we talk about
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oh we need to force states to do such and such we need to stop States from
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doing such-and-such
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you know there's this a you know all corporate surveillance is the worst
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thing oh
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state surveillance the worst thing other different things and they may be
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problematic in different ways all power needs to be able to see the world in a
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balloon
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in order to act whether you are a state for a corporation or church
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you need your own kind and legibility and your own kind of surveillance
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whether that means figuring out if the people in all the villages are showing
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up in church on Sundays
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and whether or not they're doing any of these things that might be indicative
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have any at these various heresies
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that you keep hearing about well let's go burn some people and find out
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or whether it just means that I need to be able to set cookies in your browser
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and figure out what kind of porn you like that's the same operation but for
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very different reasons
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states are panicking right now there
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acting the way they are because they're panicked
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and there's nothing that can cause the consequence very and it used to be that
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consequence ferry was a very staid creature
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and it would sort of you know floats slowly around the room analyte
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on the shoulders have had to state and popes and bishops
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and you know capitalists and say your
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actions matter in the world you're an important person
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and at some point in the past 20 or so years the consequence very got drunk
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and now the country is kinda flitting around the room doing
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matter in you matter in you matter
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and everybody else is like what the fuck how do we even deal with this because we
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don't know how
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because our legibility
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min you know like the world hasn't changed the stuff that we pullin is
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still the same thing
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but it doesn't mean what it used to mean we can't interpret it anymore
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so one of the things we're seeing right now is we're staying States
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desperately trying to hang onto not their ability to surveilled but their
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ability to understand
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but those don't look different from the outside
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arm rule of law was never intended
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to operate in a state of exception in this is one of the things which is very
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interesting
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if we talk about rule of law as a response
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to unrestricted surveillance or to any other other problems in the world right
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now
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arm a state of exception and a set of rules law are
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defined opposites com we now live
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in a state of permanent but neither pervasive nor complete
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exception and this complicates
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all responses within systems
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sue on a personal level things have gotten weird to
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om positional Essex
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is basically what happens when you join an institution when you join our
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organization
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when you join a network that network or that institution
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has a set of ethics that are attached to it
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and when you operate with in that institution
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you take on some of those ethics you be calmer
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the person that does the thing that the institution
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needs to do in the world om now
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this is not complete this is this is definitely not total
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arm infrastructure does this tune this is a really interesting thing
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for all of us you build communications infrastructure in the world
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infrastructure has an ethics now in a lot of cases
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right now that ethics is actively suicidal
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we're dealing with suicidal infrastructure that we're embedded
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inside
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and we cannot b.com non suicidal ourselves entirely
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because we're still tied into that infrastructure
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we can only become in some ways
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sensible are human and humane again if we get outside that infrastructure but
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we can't because that's what one society
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um things in our lives can sometimes override
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positional FX and and this is where our friend Walter really comes in right
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you know if you have kids
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all of a sudden you realize I'll I will do anything
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to feed these kids it doesn't matter what I thought my world used to be
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my world is no different on
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and one of the things that's really interesting about life in the network
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society
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is that we don't just have a single set of ethics we don't just have a single
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context anymore
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on we may find that we wake up in the morning and we go to work
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and we work on systems upstate or corporate control all day
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and then we go home and we do other work to undermine the exact same systems
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%uh control that we were working to build all day and we are literally
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fighting ourselves
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that is one of the conditions the next century
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so one other reasons that that institutions are freaking out right now
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is because this network that were on makes people
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weird and actually I like this particular networks weird people
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in almost like the high medieval cents they almost make people have a fame
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magic to them and all the sudden one person can become many people on the
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network
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and that legibility that several thousand years a
21:35
getting a last name on you people is suddenly gone because you just invented
21:39
15 new people
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today and a ten thousand if you read a scripted
21:45
and all the sudden the other
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the thing that the that power has a grip on
21:52
has a bearded in that classic its its totally fallen buffet and uncontrollable
21:56
magic and that's what you are right now
21:58
that's what you are becoming that's what people on the network have become
22:02
on and in the network has its own logic or possibly this
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I'm not sure I wanna apply that word here for charm up but it's really true
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but the network projects your reality and substitute is their own
22:15
those categories those safe and understand or predictable categories
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those get weirded out to
22:21
and we're all kinda living through this process all still within our lifetime
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and
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and we don't have a social structure or even a language to describe the networks
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that we're living in right now
22:32
on and
22:36
it's doing really really strange things to institutions
22:41
the Internet in particular turns conduits and barriers
22:45
and I do mean that the IAEA used to be the good guys
22:49
their jobs from the nineteen fifties was to standardize
22:53
all the record players to make sure that all the record players will play all the
22:57
records
22:57
so that anyone to get music and a set up distribution systems for the anyone
23:02
around the country
23:03
could get anyone else's music and this actually really interesting in magical
23:08
thing they did because if you are living in you know in a Louisiana by you
23:11
in 1950 you didn't hear music from New York
23:15
until they fix this system and they allowed this
23:19
this and they're one of the entities that allowed this common culture to grow
23:23
up in these
23:23
other options to enter people's lives all over america
23:26
and they didn't actually really change what they did for the next 50 years
23:32
but the world did that pit the same one that put you at the heart of the matter
23:37
took this conduit of information and turned it into a barrier
23:41
and the people who are working these jobs the people who live through this
23:46
whole cycle with the RIAA
23:48
I gotta say like as a journalist who said to call in for interviews it's like
23:51
going crazy people
23:52
and I have a lot of sympathy for them these days because they didn't do
23:56
anything wrong
23:57
the whole world just went cook it from their perspective
24:01
I and they're grabbing it reality as best they can
24:06
in fact so many other things that would have been the awesome geeky things to do
24:11
in the fifties and sixties
24:13
have turned from conduits and generous
24:17
ways are sharing information into the barriers trying to stop the network from
24:21
doing their job better
24:22
because it got those kids to feed and they've got a mortgage
24:26
and get what they were doing the right thing all their lives why did they have
24:28
to change now
24:29
so
24:33
I'm what does it look like on a grand scale
24:37
when by these these weird things go on with institutions and people
24:42
well soluble from earlier with this kind of crap this is it from 1979 to the
24:46
president
24:47
a level up global protests any part in this I think we all know is fed by the
24:52
fact the core name protesters now
24:54
piss easy compared to what it was prior to this
24:58
I that it's you know
25:01
it's like a signing up for a amassed tweeting and then going somewhere and
25:06
it's
25:06
something people can do in a few minutes it something
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you know it I the people who set up the
25:12
actor protests in on Poland that brought down
25:16
a that legislation eventually work people who had been working on it for
25:21
years in building networks and
25:23
and doing trainings and so on and so forth they're just like I must our
25:26
Facebook group
25:28
and pretty soon there is two hundred thousand people in three hundred cities
25:31
crashing abusive legislation
25:33
that was ever a treaty that was never even supposed to face any serious
25:37
opposition
25:38
that came out of nowhere that's when the one with the Polish Parliament mast up
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talk about weirding identity and institutions right there
25:46
I'm this was a little bit more subtle but actually think ultimately more
25:50
important
25:51
something's happened since the 90's it certainly took off by the year two
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thousand
25:55
and actually interestingly maps pretty well that global protest graph
26:00
inode by pretty well I mean in a rough sense that is risen on a somewhat plain
26:04
on which is that this bottom-line is on
26:07
is for Nate from 1970 to the present
26:11
and that top-line is international remittance
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an international remittances the fancy pants term for sending money home to
26:18
your family
26:20
not so what's happened here is that um
26:24
v is that nearly three times as much money is sent
26:28
by immigrants back to their families
26:31
as is is set to countries via foreign aid from governments
26:36
and possibly other fundraising institutions on
26:40
why is that important because the system a mutual care
26:43
it is again largely a while legible or stepping out of the state some %uh this
26:47
actually the number is probably higher than this because it is very very hard
26:51
to count
26:52
remittances go through informal in car economies a limitation that the people
26:56
who study this recognized but by their very nature they are illegible
27:00
and they're often used for remittance by people who are trying to
27:03
avoid taxes or avoid government they're trying to skim off the top of the
27:07
remittance economy
27:08
on so again the network is making things
27:12
pretty weird
27:23
so
27:25
I first got online in August in 1994 just before
27:30
the internet said only became a
27:33
very different place for the first half probably the dozen or two dozen times
27:37
that that's happened
27:38
since then om and
27:42
that culture that I first came in on
27:46
was a culture where we were kind of in a corner doing our own thing
27:51
and that September
27:55
when all the college kids came online and then everyone else
27:58
started coming online all of a sudden we don't live
28:02
somewhere off a corner now all the sudden we live
28:05
right in the middle and everything com
28:09
and everything that we're doing is going
28:12
to keep ako ng through history
28:16
no matter what we want to do one of the things that means is that means that we
28:21
need to learn history who's been to learn our own history
28:24
if we continue to
28:28
ignore the shaping a fact that we have on the world
28:32
we miss a lot of things it means we're going to keep repeating the same
28:36
mistakes it means we're not going to understand the victories
28:39
that we won in the past on it means we're not going to understand the
28:43
victories
28:44
other people one and see the similarities between the situations
28:48
that we're in now and that some French peasant was in seven hundred years ago
28:52
or some Chinese peasant was an two thousand years ago
28:56
com that social change
29:01
is really really critical arm you know we keep hearing
29:05
no code is polished their code is law laws code there's this
29:09
there's this you know arm equivalency now
29:13
I think there's something deeper there's well I think that
29:16
code it becomes given a hundred years culture
29:20
arm and that's a lot harder to protect
29:24
in some ways we can look at apiece have law
29:27
and makes some gases about what effect it's gonna have on the world
29:32
it's a lot harder to make the same set of gases about what
29:36
a cultural object or a thing that will influence a cultural object is going to
29:40
have on the world
29:41
but if we don't start thinking about it we're definitely not going to get there
29:45
so arm one of the things that we're talking about
29:49
is trying to stretch out are mines
29:53
stretch out like our conceptions of history while living
29:56
while those institutions and as institutional ethics that we're talking
29:59
about
29:59
push you towards thinking in quarters most imp cultures currently conducted on
30:06
on like
30:06
quarters or maybe an annual cycle
30:09
a but something like pointed out to me recently that they can't right now find
30:14
any articles that are making predictions for 2014
30:19
our time horizons have gotten so short
30:23
that we are too scared to predict next month but we can look back
30:28
we can look back at different points and and take lessons from them some other
30:31
things that we face right now are unprecedented
30:33
as all history has been and some other
30:37
is patterns that we can learn from and when we step back and look at
30:40
not just I not just things like Tindal
30:44
and more and that path they traced up to the Enlightenment
30:48
and again interestingly it is almost at we can also look at things like the fall
30:52
of the Roman Empire
30:53
the rise of paper money in China all these things
30:56
are things that can help inform us and make us understand the technologies that
31:00
we face today
31:01
but of course there are limits because every moment is unprecedented and right
31:06
now
31:06
there are so many freakin people out there that's what's so strange about
31:10
this moment every second two hundred and seventeen years a few min experience
31:15
pass on this planet since we've been talking it's something close to you
31:20
five hundred thousand years in as in the course of this talk
31:25
that's the that's the human attention that has passed
31:28
from seven billion people while we've been standing here we've been standing
31:31
you can stay
31:32
setting and what I really wanna start pushing on you
31:36
pushing toward you towards is trying to look at that long time
31:40
try to look at what the world was like a few hundred years ago
31:44
and try to imagine what you want the world to look like in a hundred years
31:49
but that's a question very few of us can answer at this point
31:52
not what do you think it will look like we want it to look like
31:58
what do you think is right for people in a hundred years
32:01
how do you hope people that you will never meet will live
32:13
people are different because at this network that we've dealt over the last
32:17
thirty years
32:17
I but they're having to do it on brains that haven't had a chance to change
32:22
I'm normally we have to we have decades and generations to adjust to these kinds
32:28
of change
32:28
currently living through an age where we have to adjust these changes
32:32
and and a biologically challenging period of time
32:35
am billions of people a number that none of us can conceive
32:40
I I not just once on the network for those touched by the network test for
32:45
the presence of a network
32:46
I are affected by what we
32:49
as a community have till on yes
32:54
we built the technology that let's governments monitor controller people
32:58
we also built a technology that lets people escape the fate's that their
33:02
rulers and cultures have for them
33:03
and sometimes we built those things in the same applications
33:07
you
33:10
have left millions and perhaps hundreds of millions
33:13
have children know the mothers and fathers who had to leave them
33:17
in order to feed them and care for them a tradition that goes back many
33:21
generations
33:22
many generations into social isolation in Los
33:25
you taken away the power economics and distance to make strangers a family's
33:31
on this is what's buried in those
33:35
dry remittance figures people
33:39
families families origin
33:43
families that we create distance no longer has
33:48
the same power over its lives over our lives
33:51
because other things that we all built in the last thirty years
33:54
this is what mutual care looks like it looks like the faces a
33:59
people it looks like their blood and their flash
34:03
and this is what our technology affects
34:06
controls and enables you made millions of people care
34:10
about people they didn't know existed millions of people they didn't know
34:15
existed
34:15
you made
34:18
not just distance but
34:22
the time but the depth of time the human record
34:26
all recorded history you made it so present
34:29
that we can pocket out of the air at any moment that's what you did in the last
34:34
thirty years
34:35
that's what you gave close to two billion people
34:39
on this planet in the last thirty years
34:42
that's what you're responsible for
34:46
I know that you didn't ask for this job
34:51
you didn't ask for this role in society none the view
34:54
not one %uh view wants to think about the many people that can be affected by
34:59
one fucking perfectly normal Bob or mistake
35:03
in the technology that you built and this is where the reasons we keep our
35:06
heads down
35:07
no one became a geek because they wanted to be the center of political attention
35:11
that just happened
35:14
you don't get to choose you don't get to choose what arab history you live in
35:19
and what that era wants to do with you and this is a moment when it
35:24
all up for grabs that's what it means to say we're on a burning planet and what
35:28
it means to say that we don't have neutral ground is that you're at the
35:30
center of that fire
35:32
you said it you one other people that said it you're one of the people
35:35
attended
35:36
and everything you do the changes you make over the next month in years ago in
35:41
a time down decades and centuries in shape the lives of people
35:44
you will never know but they will know you
35:47
for one thing your lives very well courted
35:51
and
35:55
at this point this is where we are in history
35:59
but we're standing at a conference where we still have to remind people in the
36:02
community to eat embed themselves
36:13
it is time for us to up our game
36:36
I believe me we taking questions at the Mikes
36:39
and possibly from the internet I'm not sure
36:44
I'm
36:48
but when many the citations that we use not all that many the situations that we
36:51
used in the talk
36:52
are contained within these books and essays and so on and so forth and
36:56
together they make a pretty interesting follow-on curriculum as it were
36:59
for the concepts even talking about
37:21
hi
37:22
good evening thanks for the bus station a.m.
37:25
after the printing technology came we saw a emancipate
37:29
emancipation of the human being human rights
37:33
end of slavery a do you think there could be something similar happening
37:37
with the
37:37
you man which is enhanced man also going through in speed
37:42
emancipation and of digital slavery and
37:45
new union rights committee um
37:48
so interestingly we thought we saw ups
37:51
slavery as a explicit condition abolished but we saw it as an implicit
37:56
condition expanded so we have various people who end up
38:00
I am essentially living in slave-like conditions
38:03
they can't be they they can be bought or sold well in some cases they almost
38:07
can be I'm but a it is
38:10
its interesting to watch how that institution changed I think actually
38:14
that's a really really important point
38:15
because this kind of modified human being
38:19
this we're all basically cyborgs have some sort or another at this point I
38:23
living on a cyborg planet like if you look at if you look at this planet that
38:27
is not what the planet naturally looks like this is what we have now
38:30
on and up and
38:33
I think that the job I have our generation especially in the next
38:37
generation is going to be
38:39
to try and and the slavery without instantiating a new
38:42
sadler form of slavery like we did last time
38:46
cell this is coming this these enhancements are coming there's nothing
38:50
we can do about it except make it positive
38:52
I see ways in which emergent structures can make this world a much better place
38:56
but I also see ways in which emergent structures fighting state power
39:00
turning violent could make a completely gray
39:04
featureless terrible planet where anyone who was different was instantly
39:08
destroyed
39:08
I think that's what our network could do in the worst-case I'd rather it didn't
39:12
do that okay thank you
39:16
I'm more remarkable order basically if you're standing in the Ailey II to go to
39:20
ask questions
39:21
sit down or leaf no standing around looking and chances are details
39:25
thank you and the next question over there on
39:29
I E not so much a question as a comment I would like to encourage
39:34
in addition to reading those books that we need to learn and remember more about
39:39
our own history I'm they are very recent history
39:42
it disturbs me that there have in
39:46
there are books about cryptographic algorithms
39:49
there are books about bomb early days of hacking but I talk to people younger
39:54
than myself
39:55
your the on their I teens and twenties
39:58
and Theor from the people i've talked to there is an astounding lack
40:03
awareness UVC like the first crypto war nobody
40:08
that I know I love who is to give him the younger than me
40:12
knows about the clipper chip ok for it has a or how weak I
40:16
a I want gonna over in crypto
40:20
with you know the combination the expiration have patents
40:23
and solve the other free software that developed
40:27
the period %uh naked silly 1988 1992
40:31
as a collected history seems to be
40:34
plank so let me actually don't know I find that can found the disturbing
40:38
everybody in the room house at some sort a computer science degree related degree
40:41
put up your hands
40:42
now everyone who
40:45
that we keep your hands up now everyone who read caught Shannon
40:50
in school choir hands down get all of your people with CS degrees who didn't
40:57
require Shannon
40:58
one of the most fundamental voices in everything you do
41:02
and that's kind of goes to this interesting point about I'm
41:07
about understandably I think one of the great things you can do is talk to all
41:10
people
41:11
ask them what like used to be like and I will talk your about this
41:16
talk about this because I thank you 3/28 talk
41:19
I on so you talked about the
41:25
view of the state's um by the state itself is just
41:29
are some top technology to keep society on
41:33
human time to working cell arm
41:36
while you're I rejoin to you talk I was
41:40
thinking whether you have thought about the possibility that
41:45
some sort of new technologies we're
41:48
inventing building may eat even supersede
41:52
the state structure and I am
41:56
to 'em region even more fundamental change how humans interact on the global
42:00
level
42:01
so while we could
42:04
and may replace the state's I am
42:10
I really like roads one of the things that we often
42:14
end up doing and especially in the gay community
42:17
we will end up building technologies which will they sort of mostly work
42:22
um that doesn't cut it for water systems that doesn't cut it for a lot of the
42:26
stuff that keeps us alive
42:30
I don't think it is unreasonable to start the project if trying to replace
42:33
the state I'd
42:34
I definitely don't but we need to make sure that we get it right
42:39
because if you fucked that one up too badly things get really really horrific
42:43
I completely agree but I am I was just
42:47
I thought this song was a bit focus on the state love is safe for me is just
42:50
another technology
42:52
and this state is the technology that has kept most humans alive
42:57
foremost recorded history so it's unreasonable to spend a certain amount
43:01
of time on it
43:14
thank you
43:15
thank you for bringing talk um basically from you
43:18
parts down to this so instead of a question
43:22
people don't be scared be prepare
43:25
repaired don't be predictable take questions are
43:32
short answer the question mark and put into this quiet down some boats
43:36
good people watching this team are complaining about older college because
43:40
the lawyers have people and singer leaving
43:42
so I the common take a seat be quiet or just leave
43:46
thank you know an expression lip balm most question
43:49
that overtime yes sir actually
43:52
I am afraid I am very very afraid because
43:56
I feel like we're walking on a very very thin line because the
44:00
action that that we take could easily tip
44:03
what whatever will happen a lucky in the
44:07
papal what what we want to what we don't want and I feel like even when I look
44:11
back within his history
44:12
it's never been like this that that I basically when it tried to create
44:17
something I might
44:18
later wake up in like it a scene of a dystopian movie
44:21
where all I have created end up destroying all that I love so
44:25
how can I not be afraid so I think that was always true
44:30
yet but you're gonna be dead before it happens
44:34
dawson's on
44:38
%ah tell you layup treetop for its harbour
44:43
I is a guy who dedicated his life to inventing as many horrific
44:47
chemical weapons as he could and along the way he worked out nitrogen-fixing
44:51
which is why we have all these people and I
44:57
and what's really interesting about that to me things like for toppers while
45:01
people I keep in mind I think to some degree we have to let go
45:04
the fear because we will never actually control the gutter ill we do in the
45:07
world we can not we can push we can hope but at the end
45:11
if the most I amazing ugg boots you human life
45:16
came from a guy who was trying to invent chemical weapons
45:19
we really I no one's driving this crazy train
45:23
you okay thank you very much
45:27
on the