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rc3 preroll music
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Herald: Our next speakers are Gus and GeKo
from the Tor project. They both came on
-
onto the project. A couple have been
working with the project for a long time
-
now, and a couple of years ago, they both
came on as employees. Gus, as the team
-
leader, as the community lead of the
project and Georg as the network team
-
leader, who has been working on improving
the health of the network and making sure
-
that bad relays are removed. Give them all
a great round of applause from home and
-
welcome to the stage, guys. Take it away.
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Georg: Hello, everyone, hello. This is
Georg from the Tor project, and I have got
-
with me today to talk about the State of
the Onion, a yearly thing, and we are
-
really happy to be here at the CCC and
think about providing an update, what we
-
did, what we are excited about next year
and what is basically in the pipeline.
-
Before we start, assuming we have some
folks watching this talk, wondering what
-
this Tor thing is? We thought about
picking them up, getting them up to speed
-
and talking about what we are actually
talking about here. So, Tor is concerned
-
with the online anonymity and censorship
circumvention. It's referred to as free
-
software, and we actually have an open
network of relay operators and relays and
-
operated by volunteers. But that's not the
only meaning of Tor. You find you are as
-
well, you know, in a community of
researchers, developers, users, and you
-
mentioned relay operators. As a project.
We are a US 501c3 nonprofit organization.
-
So, that's the different notions of Tor
you might encounter. So, what is actually
-
the Tor design? How does it help with the
anonymity goal or censorship circumvention
-
goal? So, I assume you have two parties
who want to communicate over the internet,
-
and they want particular. Alice wants to
hide the location of their IP address, so
-
they can connect directly to Bob because
that would be obvious where they are
-
coming from. So, they try to get their
traffic through multiple relays. So, no
-
single relay can actually betray Alice
here and find out now what Alice is up to,
-
or actually, where she is coming from. So,
what Alice is doing, or actually Alice's
-
Tor-client on her machine is picking a
path through the network where through
-
relays mentioned here with R1, R2 and R3
before she's finally reaching Bob. So,
-
this looks like some something like this
here, and at the end, Alice is asking the
-
exit relay or relay three on this slide to
connect to Bob, and then they can talk to
-
each other. That's the basic underlying
concept of Tor. Then there's the problem
-
that we sometimes see censorship in the
wild, which means that adversaries trying
-
to prevent Alice from actually reaching
the Tor-Network and so that she can
-
benefit from the privacy properties that
the Network is providing. And in this
-
case, the direct connection to the cloud
above there with the public relays as
-
presented. And what Alice needs to do is
to connect to so-called bridges, which are
-
nonpublic relays in this case, which
bridge work as a first hop. And then she
-
is picking the usual remaining two hops
before connecting to Bob. So, this is a
-
rough idea of how Tor is trying to prevent
censorship. Or to bypass censorship to be
-
more correctly and which will play a role
in the coming slides because we talk a
-
bunch about censorship, work we do and
have done and want to do. So, that's
-
basically Tor in a nutshell. That's there
are many more things to Tor, but that's
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hopefully enough to understand what the
following updates are about. So, if you
-
recall the previous slides, that was
basically trying to provide privacy at the
-
network layer for users hiding the IP
addresses. But as we know, the web, in
-
particular browsers, are large beasts, and
that's by far not enough anymore to
-
guarantee any meaningful privacy on the
internet because of all of the tracking
-
mechanisms and arrays of fingerprint
users. So, a couple of years ago, we
-
essentially started to provide a tool
called Tor Browser, which is essentially a
-
fork of Firefox and has dozens of patches
on top of that. So, we can actually
-
provide the privacy guarantees we think
are important. And this tool got some, you
-
know, some meaningful updates over the
year. And one of these is that we
-
overhauled the Tor connection experience.
Some of you who are already familiar with
-
Tor browser, know about this weird modal
dialog popping up once. This is (virtual)
-
browser, which was, up until the Tor
browser 10.5, the default way of
-
connecting to the tunnel broker program,
the Tor browser. And this is gone because
-
that's a really weird experience if you
have any other browser, what is happening
-
once you started? You get a browser window
and then start searching or typing or
-
whatever. You never get any modal dialog,
which is a UX experience, which is not
-
really the best. So we fixed that. There's
no modal dialog during startup anymore,
-
and there are easy ways to an easy way to
connect automatically now. So, you don't
-
even see this particular sort of screen
anymore, or was giving you much smoother
-
experience for your Tor browser usage,
which is pretty exciting. Then we finally
-
deployed Snowflake, which is a means for
helping censored users on the internet,
-
which is, you know, kind of next, next,
next-level step in the arms race against
-
censors. And this has been in the works
for a couple of years and has been testing
-
for months in our alpha release series and
finally made it earlier this year and
-
stable. And you can see in this on this
graph how the usage grew over time,
-
starting with the initial launch and the
stable series at the beginning of July
-
this year. You see, there's a continually
growing numbers of snowflake users you see
-
at the right side, the despite up and
down, and we'll talk about this a bit
-
later. But it's a growth, and we can see
this, and we can hear the feedback for
-
users. So, what you can help is. Running
snowflakes, how this was going to work is
-
a thing Gus will explain later on. But
that's already a thing you can try to
-
remember and getting out of this talk, so
you can help censored users. Um, yeah,
-
that's two of the high notes for this year
for the next year and upcoming years, we
-
plan to make it even easier to help
censored users around the world, for
-
instance, by faster updating the D4
bridges. we ship with the Tor browser.
-
Usually, what's happening right now is
that once we want to bundle new bridges to
-
Tor browser, we have to have a new
release, which is pretty cumbersome and
-
slow, and we want to make this faster that
you can keep your Tor browser but get
-
updated bridges if there are any available
which we can ship. And then we continue
-
working on the general idea of just
helping users bypassing the censorship,
-
though they should have a button like "I
am censored" and then Tor browser should
-
figure out everything it needs to provide
working bridges for the user and the
-
particular region where they are. That's
the kind of the golden standard we want to
-
get to. So, this will be pretty exciting
work then for another project, actually a
-
multi-year project, which we recently
started, I want you to give an update. The
-
Tor browser thing is pretty cool in the
sense that you have an app, and then you
-
have per app settings kind per app means
of providing privacy properties, but
-
particularly on Mobile, where you have
kind of dozens or hundreds of apps. It's
-
pretty cumbersome if it's usable or
possible at all to configure. Every app to
-
every app to use Tor as a proxy, so what
we want, or we actually want to what you
-
just want on mobile at least, is a way to
him to route all safe traffic and specific
-
safe applications through Tor. You don't
want to configure this per app, though.
-
That's that's not the way to go. That's a
pretty "VPN" like functionality to do. I
-
put "VPN" in quotes here because that's
kind of a working, you know, concept we
-
would probably want to come up with the
better term at the final product, because
-
VPN is kind of tainted and people have
particular understandings of what this
-
means. VPN is, and you have kind of a new
tool here which was trying to fill the
-
niche and provide better guarantees than
regular VPNs do. So, we want probably come
-
up with a different term. But that's
pretty close from the functionality point
-
of view. What we want to do and the bonus
points here as well are that, We can
-
easily expand our censorship circumvention
means to the whole device and don't have
-
to deal with that on a per app basis,
either. The work is done with our friends
-
from the Guardian project and the LEAP
Encryption Access Project, which is
-
exciting, and we plan to have this
available on Android first, likely
-
starting in 2023. Maybe already at the end
of next year, we'll see. As I said, it's a
-
multi-year project spanning different
teams at Tor. It's using Arti the new rust
-
based (talk line) we are currently
writing. So, that's a pretty exciting
-
project, and we hope you make serious
progress over next year. So let me leave
-
the application part right now and talk a
bit about what we could call network
-
health. The one of the points which
frequently comes up, which is important,
-
is our work in the bad relay area. All the
dealing with malicious relays remains hard
-
with our limited resources. We removed,
for instance, several large groups of
-
actually relays in early 2021 and used
this actually as kind of a wake-up call to
-
seriously invest in this area, which means
writing new scanners for detecting
-
malicious behavior and do a better
monitoring for malicious behavior at the
-
network. And I think over the year. I'm
confident to say that we actually are
-
going to have a safer Tor network and
compared with previous years, I think it's
-
fair to say as well that we right now have
a safer Tor network as well compared to
-
what we had in the previous year. So, that
is exciting progress. Worth mentioning
-
here, but that's not enough, right? So,
what we actually want to do to provide an
-
even safer experience and tackling the the
the problem of malicious relays more at
-
the core, is leveraging trust in our relay
community, helping with those problems.
-
And the key points to take away here is
that is. It mixed approach in the sense
-
that we have technical tools helping, that
really work. But as well this is a social
-
approach, which is important here because
we can't solve the problem of malicious
-
relays on the technical means alone. And
this is the thing we take into account
-
right now already started successfully, I
think with experiments, for instance, we
-
removed like three weeks ago, two large
groups of relays which we deemed to be
-
malicious, which were perfectly configured
from a configuration perspective. Then all
-
the my family settings, and they had a
contact info information side, which was
-
supposed to be non-spoofable. So, they did
all the technical parts right, but still,
-
once we start to contact them and tried to
talk to them, it was pretty clear they
-
were very likely malicious, and we removed
them quickly from the network, which
-
showed us once more that there's a social
component here too, which is important.
-
And this will be the priority for the
network health team, not only for the
-
team. I mean, yes, the community team
involved as well, and other teams too. But
-
it would be important for the Tor project
in 2022. And what this means at the end,
-
you know, taking trust into account is not
set yet. That could be the idea that we
-
say, OK, we have here a large group of
trusted relays, and they get more traffic
-
to see a lot more traffic to see from uses
compared to the non-trusted group. This
-
has performance implications and many
other implications, which we need to
-
explore in detail. Starting this year, but
more next year, and probably for the
-
coming years, which actually brings me to
my final point for my part, which is
-
talking to you a bit about Tor performance
and the work we did this year and what's
-
coming up next. So, if you look at these
and this graph of those two graphs, you
-
see a growing gap between the bandwidth,
which is virtualized on the network and
-
the actually used bandwidth over the
years, starting from, you know, kind of
-
2011 and continuing up until today. This
is kind of counterintuitive because one of
-
the things we usually get, as, kind of
most of the most important complaint, is
-
that Tor is slow? So, so what's the issue
here? If you have so much kind of surplus
-
bandwidth, but it's not getting used, but
on the other hand, users are complaining
-
Tor is slow. So, we have a project which
is trying to solve those problems. We
-
think that a big part of this equation is
coming up in that good congestion control
-
for the Tor Network, which was lacking so
far. So, that we have an overall better
-
bandwidth usage. And this could be
implemented this year, which is exciting,
-
and will be deployed next year. And we
hopefully see not this growing gap
-
anymore, but a shrinking gap.
Additionally, one thing we sorely missed
-
was feedback for relay operators, whether
their relays are doing well, whether they
-
are overloaded and whether they can
improve settings and make the proper
-
modifications. So, we implemented a series
of kind of warnings or triggers which
-
relay operators can monitor and we from
the Tor Project side can monitor as well.
-
And then we can ping relay operators and
helping them figure out their stuff and
-
getting those issues fixed. Resolving the
overload they see on their relays and
-
planned for 2022 as well is that we start
to do better load balancing by figuring
-
out which relays are seriously overloaded
and moving traffic from them back to less
-
overloaded relays, giving an overall
better performance and user experience for
-
all users. So, I think that's all I had to
say from my side. Thanks for listening and
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our Gus will pick this up.
Gus: Thank you, Georg. So, hello. This is
-
Gus from the Tor project. And today I will
talk a little bit about the Community Team
-
and our work on the Tor community, so we
will cover the new user support forum, our
-
new gamification project. The "run a
bridge" campaign that we started last
-
month, and we are also going to talk about
the Tor censorship in Russia. So, for the
-
third forum, we at the beginning of this
year, we start to think about having a
-
place where people can ask questions. That
is not the mailing list. So, in 2021, what
-
looks like a support forum? You know how
where users can do questions and receive
-
help. So, email and use of the
communication are nice, are cool and
-
important because people in certain
regions, they can access this resource.
-
They can send an email from Iran, from
China, from Russia now, and they can
-
access our documentation. But you are
thinking about, are there other ways to
-
reach out to this community to find
places, to find a way, for them to
-
communicate and ask questions? So, part of
GS plan is to,..., The first part of this
-
plan is to have a Tor forum, so people can
access this information and ask questions
-
on your support forum. That's friendly,
and you can store an app on your phone and
-
contact and talk with others. And later,
we'll talk about the second part of this
-
plan. So, we launched the Tor Forum
jazzier in October, and it has been very
-
nice, and I invite everyone to join our
forum. The other project that we are doing
-
in the community team is the gamification
project for relay operators. So, the idea
-
is to understand what, what are the
motivations, how we can incentivize better
-
the Tor network, how we can grow, the Tor
network, basically, or why people are
-
stopping children relays. So, we are doing
this as part of our internship, and Nico
-
is our intern, and she is doing this work,
and we have a survey online, so people can
-
ask some questions and give feedback about
their experience, running relays. And last
-
month in November, we launched our
campaign to get more bridges and in as far
-
as ... Well, Bridges are very important
for users, living in censored countries.
-
This is how they are going to connect to
the Tor network. So, our plan was to have
-
200 new obfs4 bridges. obfs4 is a
pluggable transport that can obfuscate
-
your Tor connection. And we, ... so the
plan was 200 new bridges and the campaign
-
staffs at now are at 947 new running
Bridges. 847 new obfs4 bridges, and the
-
network size about from 1200 to 2000 new
bridges overall. So, the campaign was a
-
real success and we ... and you can see on
the graph here on the screen how the
-
campaign changed the course of the network
size here. And so, this campaign started
-
in November and December, a situation just
happened. So, at the beginning of
-
December, we received a lot of users
asking for support in Russia and what it
-
was not? Well, we usually have some users
asking for help, but this time was
-
different. We received, like a lot of user
support requests, basically emails asking
-
for Tor bridges, and that was very strange
because we didn't know anything happening.
-
So, we start to investigate with OONI
which is the "Open Observatory of Network
-
Interference" to understand what was
happening. So, we start to see some
-
anomalies on the Tor net in Russia,
basically blocking not just our website,
-
but also the Tor network and not only the
Tor network, but also some Tor bridges.
-
And that was like, ... we started to look
into that to understand what was
-
happening. So, we start to collect
information, and we put together (...)
-
Ticket and a few days later, we received
an email from Russian authorities saying
-
that they were going to block the
Torproject domain, and basically, failed
-
to give us a reason, and we didn't
understand what was happening, so we, ...
-
I'm going to skip the lawyer part and the
reason that they are blocking the Tor
-
project website and I will focus on what
they are actually doing and how that is
-
impacting the Tor network and the Tor
community. So, Russia is the second-
-
largest country of Tor users, after users
in the United States, Russia, Germany,
-
Netherlands and other countries that are
the top 10 top 20 countries that are using
-
Tor. In the end, as we start to look at
the metrics and see that the numbers of
-
our users were decreasing in December. And
we also saw that the bridge users also
-
increasing. So, you can see clearly the
impact of the censorship on just a graph
-
here and just a graph is available on the
metrics portal too. So, the summary here
-
is, well, On December 1st, the Russian
authorities they blocked Tor Directory
-
Authorities. So if you have Tor followed
on your computer, you cannot bootstrap
-
Tor. They block Tor Browser Bridges. So if
you have Tor browser installed, you cannot
-
use these bridges. They also block a
domain fronting with Azure. So if you try
-
to bypass censorship, that was not going
to work. They also blocked Snowflake,
-
which we will talk about a little bit
later. And they also blocked a bunch of
-
Tor bridges in different internet
providers. So, it depends on where you are
-
in Russia, you can use Tor. But in other
places, that was going to be more
-
complicated. And the only way to bypass
the censorship at the time on December 1st
-
was to use a bridge from
https://bridges.torproject.org or from our
-
email. And so, we start to fight the
censorship, we launched our Telegram bot
-
that you can get a bridge and that the
bridges is not blocked in Russia. And we
-
tasked these bridges on all of these
points on Russia to see if they are
-
blocked, if they are blocked we ask for
relay operator to hold that IP address.
-
So, Tor Bridges are working, and we are
checking if they are checking in,
-
recording if they are working. That are
community also fought back and that our
-
committee spin up like more than 400 new
Tor bridges in just a few days. I mean, we
-
have amazing volunteers translating Tor
user support guides in Russian, and doing
-
after the first block on December 1st. The
anti-censorship thing also provide a fix
-
for snowflake, and just fix what's
available on Tor browser, the last
-
release. So, you can see onto the graph
that Snowflake was around like less than
-
2000 users, but after December, you can
see it take a while, but then such
-
increase the number of snowflake users,
basically because of Russia. And you can
-
see just a graph here. There's a decrease
here, is because the server crashed after
-
too many users. So, we fixed the server,
and we start to get more users. So, if you
-
want to help people inside this country,
you can run a Tor bridge, or you can run a
-
snowflake proxy and that that will be very
helpful for Tor users in Russia. And a new
-
update, during Christmas, we also had a
new round of censorship in Russia. More
-
bridges were blocked between December 23
and 24. We are going to reach out to relay
-
operators, and we are going to contact
them and say, OK, you need to rotate your
-
IP address if you want to get back in the
game and fight censorship. And we are
-
going to do that and just (check) if
snowflake is working fine, and we have
-
been working with doing the other support
with Russian users. And we already
-
answered more than 1300 Help requests
since December 1st. Just for comparison,
-
we resolved 1400 support tickets between
January and November. So, in one month, we
-
already have more user support request
from Russia than, you know, in 12 months,
-
basically. So, uh, so I will do a call
here for the international community to
-
spin up a Tor bridge or run a snowflake
proxy. If you can't, if you cannot run a
-
bridge, you can donate to relay
associations. If you cannot donate, you
-
can help and teach our users about Tor
bridges. Or you can help localize Tor in
-
Russian. Or you can do. We can apply
pressure like if you are part of a digital
-
rights organization or your organization
and help us to make pressure on the
-
Russian government. And stand up and start
(a directory) like Edward Snowden did and
-
publish messages calling the Russian
government to stop blocking Tor. How to
-
get involved. We are available on our IRC
and Matrix channels. You can join us, our
-
mailing list. They are public and you can
see what we are talking, and you can help.
-
You can also join the Tor Forum and you
can contribute on GitLab. And for next
-
year, we are going to improve. We are
going to continue to improve our user
-
support tools for users living in censored
countries or regions. So one of our ideas
-
is to provide a Telegram chat channel, so
users can communicate and have and get
-
user support on Telegram. We are going to
continue to develop the Tor relay
-
gamification project, and continue to
organize our trainings in the global
-
south, in Latin America and Africa, and
organize relay operators meetups. Today we
-
are going to have our relay operator meet-
up at 10:00 p.m. German time. And the link
-
you can find on the Tor relay mailing
list. And also, if you search on Twitter,
-
on social media, you can also find that,
um. And today we just covered some topics
-
from the state of the onion. One month
ago, we did a huge presentation like two
-
and a half hours about anti-censorship
from the rising UX SysAdmin team and many
-
other updates about Arti, about virtual or
non deprecation and many other topics. And
-
you can watch that on YouTube. So, I think
that's it from my side, and we are open
-
for more questions.
-
Herald: Thank you so much, guys. Like
obviously, Tor is a really important
-
project and that's honestly great to see
how dedicated you are to basically helping
-
everyone. I was actually. Now we're going
to go on to the question, and I was
-
actually wondering something myself before
we head over to taking the ones coming in
-
from the internet. Basically, I as far as
I understand like when you working with
-
bridges and making sure to like, avoid
this censorship and everything like as far
-
as I understand, an important tool in this
process are the meek-bridges where you use
-
huge cloud providers to basically mask
traffic to Tor. It's like regular HTTPS
-
website traffic. Does that not work in the
case of Russia or like what does the
-
attack threat situation look like at the
moment? And that's the landscape.
-
Gus: I can answer in two parts. The first
part is that some cloud providers, they
-
don't like domain fronting. And so, Amazon
and others, they change their policy, and
-
they start to block, well, not just block,
but to remove projects that were using
-
domain fronting. So, the only cloud
provider that allows Tor or allow Tor to
-
do that was Azure, and we had to limit the
bandwidth on that. So if you use meek-
-
Azure on Tor browser, it's going to be
very slow. And one thing that we saw, just
-
as the first part, like the providers,
they don't like that they were enforcing
-
us to stalk, or we will remove just
support. The other thing is that the bill,
-
like the cost of running a meek-Azure
bridge or a meek-Amazon bridge, but it
-
that was too high and too costly. So,
snowflake is the next step here because it
-
uses domain fronting to connect you to a
Tor proxy. It's not like proxy, and the
-
cost will be like very cheap. So, you can
get the benefit of domain fronting, and
-
you can use a lot of proxies to connect
Tor users. And that will not cost a lot of
-
money for the Tor project or for Tor
users. So, that is the way to go here is
-
not to look back, but look forward.Laugh
Herald: It sounds so cool. Like obviously
-
it seems that this was very important and
actually hearing like some of the problems
-
that you guys are facing in your fight, I
think that's very interesting for all of
-
us. So questions from the audience. The
first one is that the apps that you're
-
making like the question is, whether they
would make you identifiable. So basically,
-
if exactly those five apps are always
calling home over the same Tor nodes, the
-
question is if that if someone could link
that back to you?
-
Georg: Hmm. Do you want to talk about this
Gus? Or should I?
-
Gus: Go ahead.
Georg: Yeah, I think this should not be
-
the case. I mean, depending on what kind
of apps you have, how they are configured
-
and such and potential, you know, timing
signatures and stuff. So, that's one of
-
the things we're concerned, for instance,
with Tor browser and trying to really make
-
sure to break this up in the sense that
folks can't learn anything about those
-
patterns you have. It's hard, in
particular, if adversaries can monitor,
-
you know, exit nodes or endpoints over a
long period of time. But generally, you
-
should be protected from this kind of
threat.
-
Herald: Right. That makes sense. So, the
next question is that if they understand
-
correctly, the Tor organization is
registered in the United States, could the
-
project be in danger of any government
pressure to be discontinued, And have you
-
guys have a plan to move to more neutral
countries like Switzerland or similar?
-
Gus: So from my point of view, I don't
think we suffer any pressure right now
-
from US government. So, I think. Would
what would you be interested? Well, one
-
thing that is important is one thing is
that the Tor project and the other thing
-
is the Tor network. The Tor Network is,...
we have directed authorities in different
-
countries and that just to avoid this kind
of government pressure against the Tor
-
network. So, I think the question would be
more like finding different ways to fund,
-
..., make Tor sustainable, not just. Like
diversifying our funds, so we don't be so
-
connected with a government, are one
source provider of resource. I think just
-
it's happening right now. Isabella, the
executive director, has changing a lot of
-
our money income. And if you look back in
the Tor history, US government was adding
-
a lot of money through to the TOR project
in different by different ways, you know,
-
like a human rights projects and internet
freedom projects. And just was basically
-
how Tor is and was funded by U.S.
government, but not just U.S. government,
-
other governments like Swedish government
too. So, I think I would be more concerned
-
about the Tor directed authorities being
in just one country, and that's not true.
-
We are in different countries and they so
far I don't I never heard any kind of
-
pressure from the U.S. government against
the nonprofit, call it the Tor project.
-
So, I think that it's basically, my answer
here.
-
Herald: That's good to hear. And now on to
maybe a little bit lighter question, do
-
Tor browser users have any chance or hope
to see less captchas in the future?
-
Georg: Yeah. Yeah. I think we do have some
hope, there is, ... I mean, not just only
-
hope. But we have work ongoing solving
this from different angles. The first one
-
is outreach to major providers trying to
understand why they are blocking Tor or
-
why they provide, captchas and working
with them to come up with solutions, which
-
are not only deployable by them, but by
the wider industry. So, there is a
-
knowledge gap here and then trying to,
..., based on that, trying to figure out
-
how we can solve this problem. And that's
not only from , you know, policy angle,
-
but we plan to look into technical means
as well. For instance. There's the idea of
-
providing tokens to Tor users, so
they can, which they can spend anonymously
-
at websites, for instance, and the
websites can look for that and try to
-
regulate the traffic, keeping the noisy
bots out while providing good service to
-
our users providing such a token. That's
another thing that won't be solved next
-
year. It's a multi-year project, too. We
are a small organization, so there has to
-
be some kind of prioritization. But that's
definitely on our radar and a serious
-
problem for us. So, we should fix this.
Herald: Sounds like great initiatives and
-
also like that going some of the way in
order to some extent legitimize the use of
-
the Tor browser. Maybe not as much in
common society, but also when actually
-
visiting different websites.
Georg: Yeah, exactly.
-
Herald: Nice. Next up is whether you guys
are planning to figure out some kind of
-
solutions for firewalls, for instance, the
corporate ones that are slowing traffic
-
down.
Georg: I know, Gus, do you. Do you have
-
some, you know, queries or complaints from
users for this particular issue? I'm not
-
sure about that.
Gus: Yeah, I and. I just want to be a very
-
specific question, I ....
Herald: It's also very fair to just say
-
that it's not a problem that you've heard
a lot of complaints about,
-
Georg: Right.
Gus: Yeah, sure, that's true. We I didn't
-
hear about that. Like the captacha one is
a popular one, but I never heard.
-
Georg: I think they're a bunch of larger
things to fry here, there. It's not really
-
in our not even our top 10. So there.
Herald: Right? I guess it can also be very
-
hard for you guys to like, work with
figuring out how to prioritize all the
-
different initiatives and wishes that that
people have.
-
Georg: Yeah, definitely.
Herald: Cool. So unfortunately, we don't
-
have time for any more questions right
now, but there is a break-out room that
-
people can come to, and you will answer
any further questions. For now, we are
-
going to have a break on this channel
before the next talk that's going on at
-
20:00, which is (in German) "Cookiebanner,
das Online-Werbe-Ökosystem und Google,
-
Preisträger BigBrotherAwards 2021" For
now, thank you very much, guys. Take care
-
and maybe we'll see you in the break-out
room.
-
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