This is your brain on communication
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0:01 - 0:03Imagine that you invented a device
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0:03 - 0:05that can record my memories,
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0:05 - 0:07my dreams, my ideas,
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0:07 - 0:08and transmit them to your brain.
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0:09 - 0:12That would be a game-changing
technology, right? -
0:12 - 0:15But in fact, we already
possess this device, -
0:15 - 0:18and it's called human communication system
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0:18 - 0:19and effective storytelling.
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0:20 - 0:22To understand how this device works,
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0:22 - 0:25we have to look into our brains.
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0:25 - 0:28And we have to formulate the question
in a slightly different manner. -
0:28 - 0:30Now we have to ask
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0:30 - 0:33how these neuron patterns in my brain
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0:33 - 0:36that are associated
with my memories and ideas -
0:36 - 0:39are transmitted into your brains.
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0:40 - 0:43And we think there are two factors
that enable us to communicate. -
0:43 - 0:47First, your brain is now
physically coupled to the sound wave -
0:47 - 0:50that I'm transmitting to your brain.
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0:50 - 0:53And second, we developed
a common neural protocol -
0:53 - 0:55that enabled us to communicate.
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0:55 - 0:57So how do we know that?
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0:57 - 0:59In my lab in Princeton,
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0:59 - 1:03we bring people to the fMRI scanner
and we scan their brains -
1:03 - 1:07while they are either telling
or listening to real-life stories. -
1:07 - 1:09And to give you a sense
of the stimulus we are using, -
1:09 - 1:13let me play 20 seconds
from a story that we used, -
1:13 - 1:16told by a very talented storyteller,
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1:16 - 1:17Jim O'Grady.
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1:18 - 1:22(Audio) Jim O'Grady: So I'm banging out
my story and I know it's good, -
1:22 - 1:24and then I start to make it better --
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1:24 - 1:26(Laughter)
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1:26 - 1:29by adding an element of embellishment.
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1:30 - 1:33Reporters call this "making shit up."
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1:33 - 1:35(Laughter)
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1:36 - 1:39And they recommend
against crossing that line. -
1:40 - 1:45But I had just seen the line crossed
between a high-powered dean -
1:45 - 1:46and assault with a pastry.
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1:46 - 1:48And I kinda liked it."
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1:48 - 1:50Uri Hasson: OK, so now
let's look into your brain -
1:50 - 1:53and see what's happening
when you listen to these kinds of stories. -
1:53 - 1:57And let's start simple -- let's start
with one listener and one brain area: -
1:58 - 2:01the auditory cortex that processes
the sounds that come from the ear. -
2:01 - 2:03And as you can see,
in this particular brain area, -
2:04 - 2:07the responses are going up and down
as the story is unfolding. -
2:07 - 2:09Now we can take these responses
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2:09 - 2:11and compare them to the responses
in other listeners -
2:11 - 2:13in the same brain area.
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2:13 - 2:14And we can ask:
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2:14 - 2:17How similar are the responses
across all listeners? -
2:18 - 2:20So here you can see five listeners.
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2:21 - 2:24And we start to scan their brains
before the story starts, -
2:24 - 2:28when they're simply lying in the dark
and waiting for the story to begin. -
2:28 - 2:29As you can see,
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2:29 - 2:32the brain area is going up and down
in each one of them, -
2:32 - 2:34but the responses are very different,
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2:34 - 2:35and not in sync.
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2:35 - 2:38However, immediately
as the story is starting, -
2:38 - 2:40something amazing is happening.
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2:41 - 2:44(Audio) JO: So I'm banging out my story
and I know it's good, -
2:44 - 2:45and then I start to make it --
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2:45 - 2:49UH: Suddenly, you can see
that the responses in all of the subjects -
2:49 - 2:50lock to the story,
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2:50 - 2:53and now they are going up and down
in a very similar way -
2:53 - 2:55across all listeners.
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2:55 - 2:58And in fact, this is exactly
what is happening now in your brains -
2:58 - 3:01when you listen to my sound speaking.
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3:01 - 3:04We call this effect "neural entrainment."
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3:04 - 3:07And to explain to you
what is neural entrainment, -
3:07 - 3:09let me first explain
what is physical entrainment. -
3:10 - 3:13So, we'll look and see five metronomes.
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3:13 - 3:16Think of these five metronomes
as five brains. -
3:16 - 3:19And similar to the listeners
before the story starts, -
3:19 - 3:20these metronomes are going to click,
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3:20 - 3:23but they're going to click out of phase.
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3:23 - 3:27(Clicking)
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3:27 - 3:30Now see what will happen
when I connect them together -
3:31 - 3:33by placing them on these two cylinders.
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3:34 - 3:37(Clicking)
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3:37 - 3:40Now these two cylinders start to rotate.
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3:40 - 3:43This rotation vibration
is going through the wood -
3:43 - 3:46and is going to couple
all the metronomes together. -
3:46 - 3:48And now listen to the click.
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3:48 - 3:52(Synchronized clicking)
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3:58 - 4:00This is what you call
physical entrainment. -
4:00 - 4:03Now let's go back to the brain and ask:
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4:03 - 4:05What's driving this neural entrainment?
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4:05 - 4:08Is it simply the sounds
that the speaker is producing? -
4:08 - 4:09Or maybe it's the words.
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4:09 - 4:13Or maybe it's the meaning
that the speaker is trying to convey. -
4:13 - 4:16So to test it, we did
the following experiment. -
4:16 - 4:19First, we took the story
and played it backwards. -
4:19 - 4:22And that preserved many
of the original auditory features, -
4:22 - 4:24but removed the meaning.
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4:24 - 4:26And it sounds something like that.
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4:26 - 4:31(Audio) JO: (Unintelligible)
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4:31 - 4:34And we flashed colors in the two brains
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4:34 - 4:38to indicate brain areas that respond
very similarly across people. -
4:38 - 4:39And as you can see,
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4:39 - 4:43this incoming sound induced entrainment
or alignment in all of the brains -
4:43 - 4:45in auditory cortices
that process the sounds, -
4:45 - 4:48but it didn't spread
deeper into the brain. -
4:48 - 4:51Now we can take these sounds
and build words out of it. -
4:51 - 4:54So if we take Jim O'Grady
and scramble the words, -
4:54 - 4:55we'll get a list of words.
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4:55 - 4:58(Audio) JO: ... an animal ...
assorted facts ... -
4:58 - 5:01and right on ... pie man ...
potentially ... my stories -
5:01 - 5:04UH: And you can see that these words
start to induce alignment -
5:04 - 5:06in early language areas,
but not more than that. -
5:06 - 5:10Now we can take the words
and start to build sentences out of them. -
5:12 - 5:15(Audio) JO: And they recommend
against crossing that line. -
5:16 - 5:20He says: "Dear Jim,
Good story. Nice details. -
5:20 - 5:23Didn't she only know
about him through me?" -
5:23 - 5:26UH: Now you can see that the responses
in all the language areas -
5:26 - 5:27that process the incoming language
-
5:27 - 5:30become aligned or similar
across all listeners. -
5:30 - 5:35However, only when we use
the full, engaging, coherent story -
5:35 - 5:37do the responses spread
deeper into the brain -
5:37 - 5:39into higher-order areas,
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5:39 - 5:42which include the frontal cortex
and the parietal cortex, -
5:42 - 5:44and make all of them
respond very similarly. -
5:44 - 5:48And we believe that these responses
in higher-order areas are induced -
5:48 - 5:50or become similar across listeners
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5:50 - 5:53because of the meaning
conveyed by the speaker, -
5:53 - 5:54and not by words or sound.
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5:55 - 5:57And if we are right,
there's a strong prediction over here -
5:57 - 6:00if I tell you the exact same ideas
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6:00 - 6:02using two very different sets of words,
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6:02 - 6:05your brain responses
will still be similar. -
6:05 - 6:09And to test it, we did
the following experiment in my lab. -
6:09 - 6:11We took the English story
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6:11 - 6:13and translated it to Russian.
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6:13 - 6:17Now you have two different sounds
and linguistic systems -
6:17 - 6:20that convey the exact same meaning.
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6:20 - 6:23And you play the English story
to the English listeners -
6:23 - 6:26and the Russian story
to the Russian listeners, -
6:26 - 6:29and we can compare their responses
across the groups. -
6:29 - 6:32And when we did that, we didn't see
responses that are similar -
6:32 - 6:35in auditory cortices in language,
-
6:35 - 6:37because the language
and sound are very different. -
6:37 - 6:40However, you can see
that the responses in high-order areas -
6:40 - 6:42were still similar
across these two groups. -
6:43 - 6:47We believe this is because they understood
the story in a very similar way, -
6:47 - 6:51as we confirmed, using a test
after the story ended. -
6:52 - 6:56And we think that this alignment
is necessary for communication. -
6:56 - 6:59For example, as you can tell,
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6:59 - 7:01I am not a native English speaker.
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7:01 - 7:03I grew up with another language,
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7:03 - 7:05and the same might be for many
of you in the audience. -
7:05 - 7:07And still, we can communicate.
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7:07 - 7:08How come?
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7:09 - 7:12We think we can communicate
because we have this common code -
7:12 - 7:13that presents meaning.
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7:14 - 7:17So far, I've only talked about
what's happening in the listener's brain, -
7:17 - 7:20in your brain, when
you're listening to talks. -
7:20 - 7:22But what's happening
in the speaker's brain, in my brain, -
7:22 - 7:24when I'm speaking to you?
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7:24 - 7:26To look in the speaker's brain,
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7:26 - 7:29we asked the speaker
to go into the scanner, -
7:29 - 7:31we scan his brain
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7:31 - 7:35and then compare his brain responses
to the brain responses of the listeners -
7:35 - 7:37listening to the story.
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7:37 - 7:41You have to remember that producing speech
and comprehending speech -
7:41 - 7:43are very different processes.
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7:43 - 7:45Here we're asking: How similar are they?
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7:46 - 7:48To our surprise,
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7:48 - 7:52we saw that all these complex
patterns within the listeners -
7:52 - 7:55actually came from the speaker brain.
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7:55 - 7:59So production and comprehension
rely on very similar processes. -
7:59 - 8:01And we also found
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8:01 - 8:04the stronger the similarity
between the listener's brain -
8:04 - 8:06and the speaker's brain,
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8:06 - 8:08the better the communication.
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8:08 - 8:12So I know that if you
are completely confused now, -
8:12 - 8:14and I do hope that this is not the case,
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8:14 - 8:16your brain responses
are very different than mine. -
8:16 - 8:19But I also know that if you really
understand me now, -
8:19 - 8:22then your brain ... and your brain
... and your brain -
8:22 - 8:24are really similar to mine.
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8:26 - 8:29Now, let's take all
this information together and ask: -
8:29 - 8:32How can we use it to transmit
a memory that I have -
8:32 - 8:34from my brain to your brains?
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8:35 - 8:37So we did the following experiment.
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8:38 - 8:40We let people watch,
for the first time in their life, -
8:40 - 8:44a TV episode from the BBC series
"Sherlock," while we scanned their brains. -
8:44 - 8:47And then we asked them
to go back to the scanner -
8:47 - 8:51and tell the story to another person
that never watched the movie. -
8:51 - 8:53So let's be specific.
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8:53 - 8:55Think about this exact scene,
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8:55 - 8:57when Sherlock is entering
the cab in London -
8:58 - 9:00driven by the murderer he is looking for.
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9:00 - 9:03With me, as a viewer,
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9:03 - 9:06there is a specific brain pattern
in my brain when I watch it. -
9:07 - 9:11Now, the exact same pattern,
I can reactivate in my brain again -
9:11 - 9:15by telling the world:
Sherlock, London, murderer. -
9:15 - 9:18And when I'm transmitting
these words to your brains now, -
9:19 - 9:21you have to reconstruct it in your mind.
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9:21 - 9:26In fact, we see that pattern
emerging now in your brains. -
9:26 - 9:28And we were really surprised to see
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9:28 - 9:30that the pattern you have
now in your brains -
9:30 - 9:32when I'm describing to you these scenes
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9:32 - 9:36would be very similar to the pattern
I had when I watched this movie -
9:36 - 9:38a few months ago in the scanner.
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9:38 - 9:40This starts to tell you
about the mechanism -
9:40 - 9:43by which we can tell stories
and transmit information. -
9:44 - 9:46Because, for example,
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9:46 - 9:49now you're listening really hard
and trying to understand what I'm saying. -
9:49 - 9:51And I know that it's not easy.
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9:51 - 9:55But I hope that at one point
in the talk we clicked, and you got me. -
9:55 - 9:59And I think that in a few hours,
a few days, a few months, -
9:59 - 10:01you're going to meet someone at a party,
-
10:01 - 10:04and you're going to tell him
about this lecture, -
10:04 - 10:08and suddenly it will be as if
he is standing now here with us. -
10:08 - 10:11Now you can see
how we can take this mechanism -
10:11 - 10:15and try to transmit memories
and knowledge across people, -
10:15 - 10:17which is wonderful, right?
-
10:17 - 10:20But our ability to communicate
relies on our ability -
10:20 - 10:23to have common ground.
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10:23 - 10:24Because, for example,
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10:24 - 10:28if I'm going to use the British synonym
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10:28 - 10:30"hackney carriage" instead of "cab,"
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10:30 - 10:34I know that I'm going to be misaligned
with most of you in the audience. -
10:35 - 10:37This alignment depends
not only on our ability -
10:37 - 10:39to understand the basic concept;
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10:39 - 10:44it also depends on our ability to develop
common ground and understanding -
10:44 - 10:46and shared belief systems.
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10:46 - 10:47Because we know that in many cases,
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10:47 - 10:52people understand the exact
same story in very different ways. -
10:52 - 10:56So to test it in the lab,
we did the following experiment. -
10:56 - 10:59We took a story by J.D. Salinger,
-
10:59 - 11:03in which a husband lost track
of his wife in the middle of a party, -
11:03 - 11:07and he's calling his best friend, asking,
"Did you see my wife?" -
11:08 - 11:09For half of the subjects,
-
11:09 - 11:13we said that the wife was having
an affair with the best friend. -
11:13 - 11:14For the other half,
-
11:14 - 11:20we said that the wife is loyal
and the husband is very jealous. -
11:20 - 11:23This one sentence before the story started
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11:23 - 11:25was enough to make the brain responses
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11:25 - 11:28of all the people that believed
the wife was having an affair -
11:28 - 11:31be very similar in these high-order areas
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11:31 - 11:33and different than the other group.
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11:33 - 11:37And if one sentence is enough
to make your brain similar -
11:37 - 11:38to people that think like you
-
11:38 - 11:41and very different than people
that think differently than you, -
11:41 - 11:45think how this effect is going
to be amplified in real life, -
11:45 - 11:48when we are all listening
to the exact same news item -
11:48 - 11:51after being exposed
day after day after day -
11:51 - 11:55to different media channels,
like Fox News or The New York Times, -
11:55 - 11:58that give us very different
perspectives on reality. -
12:00 - 12:01So let me summarize.
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12:02 - 12:04If everything worked as planned tonight,
-
12:04 - 12:08I used my ability to vocalize sound
to be coupled to your brains. -
12:08 - 12:09And I used this coupling
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12:09 - 12:13to transmit my brain patterns associated
with my memories and ideas -
12:13 - 12:15into your brains.
-
12:15 - 12:19In this, I start to reveal
the hidden neural mechanism -
12:19 - 12:21by which we communicate.
-
12:21 - 12:24And we know that in the future
it will enable us to improve -
12:24 - 12:26and facilitate communication.
-
12:26 - 12:28But these studies also reveal
-
12:29 - 12:32that communication relies
on a common ground. -
12:32 - 12:34And we have to be
really worried as a society -
12:34 - 12:38if we lose this common ground
and our ability to speak with people -
12:38 - 12:41that are slightly different than us
-
12:41 - 12:44because we let a few very strong
media channels -
12:44 - 12:45take control of the mic,
-
12:46 - 12:49and manipulate and control
the way we all think. -
12:49 - 12:52And I'm not sure how to fix it
because I'm only a scientist. -
12:52 - 12:55But maybe one way to do it
-
12:55 - 12:57is to go back to the more
natural way of communication, -
12:57 - 12:59which is a dialogue,
-
12:59 - 13:02in which it's not only me
speaking to you now, -
13:02 - 13:04but a more natural way of talking,
-
13:04 - 13:08in which I am speaking and I am listening,
-
13:08 - 13:12and together we are trying to come
to a common ground and new ideas. -
13:12 - 13:13Because after all,
-
13:13 - 13:17the people we are coupled to
define who we are. -
13:17 - 13:20And our desire to be coupled
to another brain -
13:20 - 13:24is something very basic
that starts at a very early age. -
13:24 - 13:28So let me finish with an example
from my own private life -
13:29 - 13:33that I think is a good example
of how coupling to other people -
13:33 - 13:36is really going to define who we are.
-
13:36 - 13:39This my son Jonathan at a very early age.
-
13:39 - 13:44See how he developed
a vocal game together with my wife, -
13:44 - 13:49only from the desire and pure joy
of being coupled to another human being. -
13:50 - 13:54(Both vocalizing)
-
14:03 - 14:05(Laughter)
-
14:05 - 14:09Now, think how the ability of my son
-
14:09 - 14:12to be coupled to us
and other people in his life -
14:12 - 14:15is going to shape the man
he is going to become. -
14:15 - 14:17And think how you change on a daily basis
-
14:17 - 14:22from the interaction and coupling
to other people in your life. -
14:23 - 14:25So keep being coupled to other people.
-
14:25 - 14:27Keep spreading your ideas,
-
14:27 - 14:30because the sum of all of us
together, coupled, -
14:30 - 14:32is greater than our parts.
-
14:32 - 14:33Thank you.
-
14:33 - 14:38(Applause)
- Title:
- This is your brain on communication
- Speaker:
- Uri Hasson
- Description:
-
Neuroscientist Uri Hasson researches the basis of human communication and storytelling, and experiments from his lab reveal that even across different languages, our brains show similar activity, or become "aligned," when we hear the same idea or story. This amazing neural mechanism allows us to transmit brain patterns, sharing memories and knowledge. "We can communicate because we have a common code that presents meaning," Hasson says.
- Video Language:
- English
- Team:
- closed TED
- Project:
- TEDTalks
- Duration:
- 14:51
Brian Greene commented on English subtitles for This is your brain on communication | ||
Brian Greene edited English subtitles for This is your brain on communication | ||
Brian Greene edited English subtitles for This is your brain on communication | ||
Brian Greene edited English subtitles for This is your brain on communication | ||
Brian Greene edited English subtitles for This is your brain on communication | ||
Brian Greene edited English subtitles for This is your brain on communication | ||
Brian Greene edited English subtitles for This is your brain on communication | ||
Brian Greene approved English subtitles for This is your brain on communication |
Brian Greene
This transcript was updated on 8/17/16.
At 9:11, the phrase "by telling the world" was changed to "by telling the word."