What your designs say about you
-
0:00 - 0:03We are today talking about moral persuasion.
-
0:03 - 0:05What is moral and immoral
-
0:05 - 0:07in trying to change people's behaviors
-
0:07 - 0:09by using technology and using design?
-
0:09 - 0:11And I don't know what you expect,
-
0:11 - 0:13but when I was thinking about that issue,
-
0:13 - 0:14I early on realized
-
0:14 - 0:18what I'm not able to give you are answers.
-
0:18 - 0:20I'm not able to tell you what is moral or immoral
-
0:20 - 0:23because we're living in a pluralist society.
-
0:23 - 0:26My values can be radically different
-
0:26 - 0:28from your values.
-
0:28 - 0:31Which means that what I consider moral or immoral based on that
-
0:31 - 0:35might not necessarily be what you consider moral or immoral.
-
0:35 - 0:38But I also realized that there is one thing that I could give you.
-
0:38 - 0:41And that is what this guy behind me gave the world --
-
0:41 - 0:42Socrates.
-
0:42 - 0:43It is questions.
-
0:43 - 0:46What I can do and what I would like to do with you
-
0:46 - 0:48is give you, like that initial question,
-
0:48 - 0:49a set of questions
-
0:49 - 0:51to figure out for yourself,
-
0:51 - 0:52layer by layer,
-
0:52 - 0:55like peeling an onion,
-
0:55 - 0:57getting at the core of what you believe
-
0:57 - 1:00is moral or immoral persuasion.
-
1:00 - 1:03And I'd like to do that with a couple of examples
-
1:03 - 1:06of technologies where people have used game elements
-
1:06 - 1:09to get people to do things.
-
1:09 - 1:13So it's a very simple, a very obvious question
-
1:13 - 1:14I would like to give you:
-
1:14 - 1:17What are your intentions if you are designing something?
-
1:17 - 1:20And obviously intentions are not the only thing,
-
1:20 - 1:24so here is another example for one of these applications.
-
1:24 - 1:27There are a couple of these kinds of eco-dashboards right now --
-
1:27 - 1:29so dashboards built into cars
-
1:29 - 1:31which try to motivate you to drive more fuel efficiently.
-
1:31 - 1:33This here is Nissan's MyLeaf,
-
1:33 - 1:35where your driving behavior is compared
-
1:35 - 1:37with the driving behavior of other people,
-
1:37 - 1:39so you can compete for who drives around
-
1:39 - 1:40the most fuel efficiently.
-
1:40 - 1:43And these things are very effective, it turns out,
-
1:43 - 1:45so effective that they motivate people
-
1:45 - 1:47to engage in unsafe driving behaviors --
-
1:47 - 1:49like not stopping on a red headlight.
-
1:49 - 1:51Because that way you have to stop and restart the engine,
-
1:51 - 1:54and that would use quite some fuel, wouldn't it?
-
1:54 - 2:00So despite this being a very well-intended application,
-
2:00 - 2:02obviously there was a side effect of that.
-
2:02 - 2:04And here's another example for one of these side effects.
-
2:04 - 2:06Commendable:
-
2:06 - 2:09a site that allows parents to give their kids little badges
-
2:09 - 2:11for doing the things that parents want their kids to to --
-
2:11 - 2:13like tying their shoes.
-
2:13 - 2:15And at first that sounds very nice,
-
2:15 - 2:17very benign, well intended.
-
2:17 - 2:21But it turns out, if you look into research on people's mindset,
-
2:21 - 2:23that caring about outcomes,
-
2:23 - 2:25caring about public recognition,
-
2:25 - 2:28caring about these kinds of public tokens of recognition
-
2:28 - 2:31is not necessarily very helpful
-
2:31 - 2:33for your long-term psychological well-being.
-
2:33 - 2:36It's better if you care about learning something.
-
2:36 - 2:38It's better when you care about yourself
-
2:38 - 2:41than how you appear in front of other people.
-
2:41 - 2:44So that kind of motivational tool that is used
-
2:44 - 2:46actually in and of itself
-
2:46 - 2:48has a long-term side effect,
-
2:48 - 2:49that every time we use a technology
-
2:49 - 2:53that uses something like public recognition or status,
-
2:53 - 2:55we're actually positively endorsing this
-
2:55 - 2:59as a good and a normal thing to care about.
-
2:59 - 3:01That way possibly having a detrimental effect
-
3:01 - 3:05on the long-term psychological well-being of ourselves as a culture.
-
3:05 - 3:08So that's a second, very obvious question:
-
3:08 - 3:10What are the effects of what you're doing?
-
3:10 - 3:13The effects that you're having with the device,
-
3:13 - 3:14like less fuel,
-
3:14 - 3:17as well as the effects of the actual tools you're using
-
3:17 - 3:19to get people to do things --
-
3:19 - 3:20public recognition.
-
3:20 - 3:23Now is that all -- intention, effect?
-
3:23 - 3:25Well there are some technologies
-
3:25 - 3:27which obviously combine both.
-
3:27 - 3:29Both good long-term and short-term effects
-
3:29 - 3:32and a positive intention like Fred Stutzman's Freedom,
-
3:32 - 3:34where the whole point of that application
-
3:34 - 3:37is, well, we're usually so bombarded
-
3:37 - 3:38with calls and requests by other people,
-
3:38 - 3:41with this device you can shut off the Internet connectivity
-
3:41 - 3:44of your PC of choice for a preset amount of time
-
3:44 - 3:46to actually get some work done.
-
3:46 - 3:48And I think most of us will agree,
-
3:48 - 3:49well that's something well intended
-
3:49 - 3:51and also has good consequences.
-
3:51 - 3:53In the words of Michel Foucault,
-
3:53 - 3:55"It is a technology of the self."
-
3:55 - 3:58It is a technology that empowers the individual
-
3:58 - 4:00to determine its own life course
-
4:00 - 4:02to shape itself.
-
4:02 - 4:03But the problem is,
-
4:03 - 4:05as Foucault points out,
-
4:05 - 4:07that every technology of the self
-
4:07 - 4:10has a technology of domination as its flip side.
-
4:10 - 4:14As you see in today's modern liberal democracies,
-
4:14 - 4:16the society, the state,
-
4:16 - 4:21not only allows us to determine our self, to shape our self,
-
4:21 - 4:23it also demands it of us.
-
4:23 - 4:25It demands that we optimize ourselves,
-
4:25 - 4:26that we control ourselves,
-
4:26 - 4:29that we self-manage continuously
-
4:29 - 4:31because that's the only way
-
4:31 - 4:33in which such a liberal society works.
-
4:33 - 4:38These technologies want us to stay in the game
-
4:38 - 4:40that society has devised for us.
-
4:40 - 4:43They want us to fit in even better.
-
4:43 - 4:45They want us to optimize ourselves to fit in.
-
4:45 - 4:49Now I don't say that is necessarily a bad thing.
-
4:49 - 4:52I just think that this example
-
4:52 - 4:54points us to a general realization,
-
4:54 - 4:58and that is no matter what technology or design you look at,
-
4:58 - 5:03even something we consider as well intended and as good in its effects --
-
5:03 - 5:04like, for example, Stutzman's Freedom --
-
5:04 - 5:07comes with certain values embedded in it.
-
5:07 - 5:09And we can question these values.
-
5:09 - 5:11We can question: Is it a good thing
-
5:11 - 5:14that all of us continuously self-optimize ourselves
-
5:14 - 5:16to fit better into that society?
-
5:16 - 5:18Or to give you another example,
-
5:18 - 5:20what about a piece of persuasive technology
-
5:20 - 5:23that convinces Muslim women to wear their headscarves?
-
5:23 - 5:26Is that a good or a bad technology
-
5:26 - 5:28in its intentions or in its effects?
-
5:28 - 5:30Well that basically depends
-
5:30 - 5:32on the kind of values that you bring to bear
-
5:32 - 5:34to make these kinds of judgments.
-
5:34 - 5:36So that's a third question:
-
5:36 - 5:38What values do you use to judge?
-
5:38 - 5:40And speaking of values,
-
5:40 - 5:43I've noticed that in the discussion about moral persuasion online,
-
5:43 - 5:45and when I'm talking with people,
-
5:45 - 5:47more often than not there is a weird bias.
-
5:47 - 5:51And that bias is that we're asking,
-
5:51 - 5:54is this or that "still" ethical?
-
5:54 - 5:56Is it "still" permissible?
-
5:56 - 5:58We're asking things like,
-
5:58 - 6:00Is this Oxfam donation form --
-
6:00 - 6:03where the regular monthly donation is the preset default
-
6:03 - 6:05and people, maybe without intending it,
-
6:05 - 6:08are that way encouraged or nudged
-
6:08 - 6:10into giving a regular donation instead of a one-time donation --
-
6:10 - 6:12is that still permissible?
-
6:12 - 6:13Is it still ethical?
-
6:13 - 6:15We're fishing at the low end.
-
6:15 - 6:17But in fact, that question --
-
6:17 - 6:17Is it still ethical? --
-
6:17 - 6:20is just one way of looking at ethics.
-
6:20 - 6:22Because if you look at the beginning of ethics
-
6:22 - 6:25in Western culture,
-
6:25 - 6:27you see a very different idea
-
6:27 - 6:28of what ethics also could be.
-
6:28 - 6:32For Aristotle, ethics was not about the question,
-
6:32 - 6:35is that still good, or is it bad?
-
6:35 - 6:38Ethics was about the question of how to live life well.
-
6:38 - 6:41And he put that in the word "arete,"
-
6:41 - 6:43which we, from the Latin, translate as "virtue."
-
6:43 - 6:45But really it means excellence.
-
6:45 - 6:49It means living up to your own full potential
-
6:49 - 6:51as a human being.
-
6:51 - 6:52And that is an idea
-
6:52 - 6:56that, I think, that Paul Richard Buchanan nicely put in a recent essay
-
6:56 - 6:58where he said, "Products are vivid arguments
-
6:58 - 7:01about how we should live our lives."
-
7:01 - 7:03Our designs are not ethical or unethical
-
7:03 - 7:08in that they're using ethical or unethical means of persuading us.
-
7:08 - 7:10They have a moral component
-
7:10 - 7:14just in the kind of vision and the aspiration of the good life
-
7:14 - 7:16that they present to us.
-
7:16 - 7:20And if you look into the designed environment around us
-
7:20 - 7:21with that kind of lens,
-
7:21 - 7:23asking, what is the vision of the good life
-
7:23 - 7:26that our products, our design, present to us?
-
7:26 - 7:28Then you often get the shivers
-
7:28 - 7:31because of how little we expect of each other,
-
7:31 - 7:34of how little we actually seem to expect
-
7:34 - 7:37of our life and what the good life looks like.
-
7:37 - 7:41So that's the fourth question I'd like to leave you with:
-
7:41 - 7:42What vision of the good life
-
7:42 - 7:46do your designs convey?
-
7:46 - 7:47And speaking of design,
-
7:47 - 7:51you notice that I already broadened the discussion.
-
7:51 - 7:56Because it's not just persuasive technology that we're talking about here,
-
7:56 - 8:00it's any piece of design that we put out here in the world.
-
8:00 - 8:01I don't know whether you know
-
8:01 - 8:03the great communication researcher Paul Watzlawick
-
8:03 - 8:05who, back in the '60s, made the argument:
-
8:05 - 8:06"We cannot not communicate."
-
8:06 - 8:09Even if we choose to be silent,
-
8:09 - 8:13we chose to be silent. We're communicating something by choosing to be silent.
-
8:13 - 8:16And in the same way that we cannot not communicate,
-
8:16 - 8:17we cannot not persuade.
-
8:17 - 8:19Whatever we do or refrain from doing,
-
8:19 - 8:22whatever we put out there as a piece of design
-
8:22 - 8:24into the world
-
8:24 - 8:26has a persuasive component.
-
8:26 - 8:28It tries to affect people.
-
8:28 - 8:30It puts a certain vision of the good life
-
8:30 - 8:31out there in front of us.
-
8:31 - 8:33Which is what Peter-Paul Verbeek,
-
8:33 - 8:36the Dutch philosopher of technology, says.
-
8:36 - 8:40No matter whether we as designers intend it or not,
-
8:40 - 8:42we materialize morality.
-
8:42 - 8:45We make certain things harder and easier to do.
-
8:45 - 8:47We organize the existence of people.
-
8:47 - 8:50We put a certain vision of what good or bad
-
8:50 - 8:53or normal or usual is in front of people
-
8:53 - 8:56by everything we put out there in the world.
-
8:56 - 8:59Even something as innocuous as a set of school chairs
-
8:59 - 9:01is a persuasive technology.
-
9:01 - 9:03Because it presents and materializes
-
9:03 - 9:05a certain vision of the good life --
-
9:05 - 9:09the good life in which teaching and learning and listening
-
9:09 - 9:12is about one person teaching, the others listening,
-
9:12 - 9:15in which it is about, learning is done while sitting,
-
9:15 - 9:18in which you learn for yourself,
-
9:18 - 9:20in which you're not supposed to change these rules
-
9:20 - 9:23because the chairs are fixed to the ground.
-
9:23 - 9:27And even something as innocuous as a single design chair --
-
9:27 - 9:28like this one by Arne Jacobsen --
-
9:28 - 9:30is a persuasive technology.
-
9:30 - 9:33Because, again, it communicates an idea of the good life.
-
9:33 - 9:34A good life --
-
9:34 - 9:37a life that you say you as a designer consent to
-
9:37 - 9:39by saying, "In the good life,
-
9:39 - 9:43goods are produced as sustainably or unsustainably as this chair.
-
9:43 - 9:45Workers are treated as well or as badly
-
9:45 - 9:48as the workers were treated who built that chair."
-
9:48 - 9:50The good life is a life where design is important
-
9:50 - 9:53because somebody obviously took the time and spent the money
-
9:53 - 9:55for that kind of well-designed chair,
-
9:55 - 9:56where tradition is important
-
9:56 - 9:59because this is a traditional classic
-
9:59 - 10:00and someone cared about this,
-
10:00 - 10:02and where there is something as conspicuous consumption,
-
10:02 - 10:03where it is okay and normal
-
10:03 - 10:06to spend a humungous amount of money on such a chair
-
10:06 - 10:10to signal to other people what your social status is.
-
10:10 - 10:13So these are the kinds of layers, the kinds of questions
-
10:13 - 10:15I wanted to lead you through today --
-
10:15 - 10:17the question of, What are the intentions
-
10:17 - 10:19that you bring to bear when you're designing something?
-
10:19 - 10:23What are the effects, intended and unintended, that you're having?
-
10:23 - 10:24What are the values you're using
-
10:24 - 10:26to judge those?
-
10:26 - 10:27What are the virtues, the aspirations
-
10:27 - 10:29that you're actually expressing in that?
-
10:29 - 10:32And how does that apply,
-
10:32 - 10:34not just to persuasive technology,
-
10:34 - 10:36but to everything you design?
-
10:36 - 10:38Do we stop there?
-
10:38 - 10:40I don't think so.
-
10:40 - 10:44I think that all of these things are eventually informed
-
10:44 - 10:46by the core of all of this --
-
10:46 - 10:49and this is nothing but life itself.
-
10:49 - 10:52Why, when the question of what the good life is
-
10:52 - 10:54informs everything that we design,
-
10:54 - 10:57should we stop at design and not ask ourselves,
-
10:57 - 11:00how does it apply to our own life?
-
11:00 - 11:02"Why should the lamp or the house be an art object,
-
11:02 - 11:04but not our life?"
-
11:04 - 11:05Michel Foucault puts it.
-
11:05 - 11:09Just to give you a practical example of Buster Benson.
-
11:09 - 11:11This is Buster setting up a pull-up machine
-
11:11 - 11:14at the office of his new startup Habit Labs,
-
11:14 - 11:16where they're trying to build up other applications
-
11:16 - 11:18like Health Month for people.
-
11:18 - 11:20And why is he building a thing like this?
-
11:20 - 11:22Well here is the set of axioms
-
11:22 - 11:26that Habit Labs, Buster's startup, put up for themselves
-
11:26 - 11:29on how they wanted to work together as a team
-
11:29 - 11:30when they're building these applications --
-
11:30 - 11:33a set of moral principles they set themselves
-
11:33 - 11:34for working together --
-
11:34 - 11:36and one of them being,
-
11:36 - 11:39"We take care of our own health and manage our own burnout."
-
11:39 - 11:42Because ultimately how can you ask yourselves
-
11:42 - 11:44and how can you find an answer
-
11:44 - 11:46on what vision of the good life
-
11:46 - 11:49you want to convey and create with your designs
-
11:49 - 11:51without asking the question,
-
11:51 - 11:53what vision of the good life
-
11:53 - 11:55do you yourself want to live?
-
11:55 - 12:00And with that, I thank you.
-
12:00 - 12:03(Applause)
- Title:
- What your designs say about you
- Speaker:
- Sebastian Deterding
- Description:
-
What does your chair say about what you value? Designer Sebastian Deterding shows how our visions of morality and what the good life is are reflected in the design of objects around us.
- Video Language:
- English
- Team:
closed TED
- Project:
- TEDTalks
- Duration:
- 12:23
![]() |
Krystian Aparta commented on English subtitles for What your designs say about you | |
![]() |
Krystian Aparta edited English subtitles for What your designs say about you | |
![]() |
Jenny Zurawell edited English subtitles for What your designs say about you | |
![]() |
Jenny Zurawell edited English subtitles for What your designs say about you | |
![]() |
Jenny Zurawell approved English subtitles for What your designs say about you | |
![]() |
Jenny Zurawell edited English subtitles for What your designs say about you | |
![]() |
Morton Bast accepted English subtitles for What your designs say about you | |
![]() |
Morton Bast edited English subtitles for What your designs say about you |
Krystian Aparta
The English transcript was updated on 10/17/2016.