Jeff Koons in "Fantasy" - Season 5 - "Art in the Twenty-First Century" | Art21

[ JEFF KOONS ] People think that i have
a large factory that just knocks out work.

If you want to make public works
in different mediums, you have

to have support.

I do have a lot of people that
work with me, but we make very

few paintings a year, because it
takes a long time to make each one.

I learned at a very young age

how to take care of myself, and
i've always enjoyed providing.

So the studio's really an
extension of that.

It's a sense of community.

From the time i was a child,
i was self-reliant.

I would go door-to-door, sell
gift wrapping paper, candies, chocolates,

and I always enjoyed

that I never knew who would open
that door.

But it's the same thing that's
happening now as an artist today,

wanting this
communication, this interaction.

It wasn't till I got to art school

that i really understood
how art can connect you through human history

and the type of
reservoir that it could be.

If I look at all the works

that i've done over the years,

i can see that i continue with
certain themes.

I like flowers.
I like certain sensual images.

There's certain things that I
like to work with, 'cause it's

really the same information, how
you look at life and spiritual aspects.

A lot of things continue to come
into play.

Objects are metaphors for
people.

It always turns out to
be about others.

It's not about accepting that
object, high-low culture.

It's about the acceptance of
others.

- You got everything, Chris?
- Yeah.

- I don't know if these will work with the fins.

- Yeah, these braces weren't there
when we flipped it.

- We'll take 'em out them.
- Yeah.

- Screwdriver.

[high-pitched whining]

- We're gonna maybe leave this
one in for the time being.

- Yeah, I wasn't actually gonna take
it out.

I did that one, and I missed it.

- 'Cause they'll have enough
room.
- Mhm.

- Yeah, this one, I'm just
gonna leave it.

- Jeff's images are usually
made up of many different sources.

He'll compose these on the
computer and spend a fair amount

It's our job to reproduce as
close as possible to this reference,

and then we work with
him in the painting process.

We trace the drawing on a larger
scale.

We have to mix color to his
liking.

Everything is done through maps.

For example, we have a map for the hand.

We have 141 colors just for the
fist on that painting.

It's always an ongoing process
to try to get it as close to the

reference as possible.

So, for example, if you
looked in here, we have number 21.

We would have somebody mix
actual color that would match

that specific area on the
painting.

We mix it on the table
over there.

We basically make a swatch.

Usually three or four people have to look at the color and
agree if it matches or not, and

then we go through and tube these paints

and have boxes full
of all the paints that we need.

Flesh is a hard one.
Jeff's very particular on the flesh,

so once we find someone
that we like that does it the

way we want, it's very hard to
keep 'em around, doing it good.

We have people that paint
inflatables really well.

People specialize in certain
things.

The way we paint here is very
particular.

It's very smooth.
So we have to watch out that

people aren't painting too
thick.

It's kind of an irreversible
thing.

You can't really fix that.

But generally speaking, it's three people on a painting at
all times, and it's probably six

to eight months for a painting,
sometimes longer.

Ideas change, techniques change,

so it's always evolving into
different things.

I've seen Jeff work on some of
the paintings years ago.

I haven't seen him work so much
now.

The painting process i see him
working is on the computer.

He'll keep composing the image
until he's happy with it.

That's primarily where i see
most of his time spent.

But he's more hands-on in coming
in daily and giving us guidance

on what he wants and how to

execute it to make it look like
what he wants it to look like.

[ JEFF KOONS ] I think the way art comes
into the world is through

a metaphysical process.

If you try to create art, it's a decorative process.

You're just wasting time,
spinning gears until you get so

bored with yourself that you
just stop the process and say,

"Okay, what do i really want
to do?

What am i interested in?"
and you focus on it, and before

you know it, you're in that
metaphysical place.

"Bear and Policeman" that's
probably one of my kind of darker works,

I worked with
wood because I wanted to work

with a material that had
a spiritual side,

that's a living material.

It keeps moving.
The church has used it for

a very kind of spiritual aspect
to its nature.

"Bear and Policeman" is an image
of a bear that's really kind of

outgrown the symbol of
authority, and it's larger than

the bobby, the policeman bobby
that's there.

And it's ready to blow the
bobby's whistle.

There is kind of a sense of
sexual humiliation there through

overpowering the bobby, and that
piece, for me, is really

speaking about that, you know,
art should be something really powerful.

Artists should embrace all the
tools of art to communicate as

strongly as possible,

as clearly as possible with as
much a virile quality.

But at the same time,
there's a morality that comes

along with that, and that's just
the respect of other people,

that their rights are equal
to yours.

And so, "Bear and Policeman"
was always like art having that

power but being misused and
going out of control.

And it always reminded me, like,
of Hitler.

So i was trying to communicate,

again, artists should embrace
all the powers of art, but

there's a moral responsibility
that comes with it.

"Ushering in Banality" is also
from the "Banality" series.

It's also made out of wood.

I always felt that it was
a little autobiographical.

The young boy in the back
pushing the pig, I always

thought of as myself pushing in
this belief of really trying to

make work that would communicate
to people that their own

cultural history to that moment
was perfect, absolutely perfect.

Cultural history, personal
history, everything is perfect,

and that that would give them
a foundation to move forward in life.

You know, art can be something
which can really disempower

people and can make them feel
completely inferior—and some

people can get a sense of power
from that—or it can be

a vehicle which can
empower people.

And i also get a sense of power
from empowering.

There are theatrical aspects
taking place in Versailles.

My artworks want to show
themselves.

The artworks are extroverted.
The major salons are about

public interaction.

It's for the public to be there.

I had to position myself in a certain way even to be
accepted within that situation

of Louis XIV, just like any
artist of the court would have

to present themself in a certain
way.

The way I did that, I showed my
self-portrait bust, and I put

the bust on top of a plinth that
was designed by Bernini, so it

was quite high.

It was probably about 11 feet up
in the air.

And I remember when I made this
suggestion, some of the

assistants at Versailles started
to giggle.

They thought, "How could he do
that?

How could he, you know, put
himself on such a position like

that on a Bernini base?"

But i realized that that was
kind of necessary, and that was

across from the portrait of
Louis XIV by Rigaud, and I think

it worked, and I think Louis XIV
appreciated it.

When I'm at Versailles, it never
really seems to be about excess,

because it seems to be about
detail and enjoying the detail.

I really enjoyed the lobster
hanging—I think it was in the

Salon de Mars.

If you look at the lobster, it's
a little bit like a performer,

like an acrobat, kind of broad
arms, and the tentacles are like

a mustache.

But if you look closely, the
graphics on the lobster are like

somebody being burned at the
stake.

So you also have this sense that
if you're in the public eye long

enough, that's an inevitable
fate.

To be able to have an exhibition at Versailles,

it's really
a special opportunity.

I spent about five weeks of the
summer being in the gardens and

going through the palace, and then I
planted “Split-Rocker."

There are 90,000 flowers, and I
worked with a team of gardeners

from Versailles.

And this was the first time that
I ever planted a floral piece

completely mathematically.

It's based on a pattern of five
plants.

I have different light colors
and dark colors and mid colors.

But it's all done in
mathematical patterns,

and I never did that before.

I thought that was really
appropriate for Versailles.

[ speaking French ]

[ speaking French ]

[ JEFF KOONS ] One of the things that I came

to realize in this last year--
I had several major exhibitions.

I had a show at Chicago at the
Museum of Contemporary Art.

I had the show on the roof of
The Metropolitan in New York,

exhibition at Versailles,

and then also at the Neue Nationalgalerie in Berlin.

I had a chance to see different
bodies of work inter-reacting

with each other.

The images can change a lot.
The reason for making something can change.

Some things can be more
cerebral.

Other ones can be more physical.
But what doesn't change is that

reason for making them,

that desire to be in that moment
of that time when you want to

make something, just diving
in, that kind of sense of

abandonment of kind of any doubt
and just going for it.

And that's really what's
important to me as the viewer in this case.

I know that other viewers can
look at it, and they can feel

something, but I hope that the
main charge that they're getting

is that sense of commitment of
moving forward on something,

that commitment of gesture.

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