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36C3 - Thrust is not an Option: How to get to Mars really slow

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    36C3 preroll music
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    Herald: OK, so the next talk for this
    evening is on how to get to Mars and all
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    in very interesting ways. Some of them
    might be really, really slow. Our next
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    speaker has studied physics and has a PhD
    in maths and is currently working as a
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    mission planner at the German Space
    Operations Center. Please give a big round
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    of applause to Sven.
    Sven: Thank you.
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    Hello and welcome to
    "Thrust is not an option: How to get a
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    Mars really slow". My name is Sven. I'm a
    mission planner at the German Space
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    Operations Center, which is a part of the
    DLR, the Deutsches Zentrum für Luft- und
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    Raumfahrt. And first of all, I have to
    apologize because I kind of cheated a
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    little bit in the title. The accurate
    title would have been "Reducing thrust: How
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    to get to Mars or maybe Mercury really
    slow". The reason for this is that I will
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    actually use Mercury as an example quite
    a few times. And also we will not be able
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    to actually get rid of all the maneuvers
    that we want to do. So the goal of this
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    talk is to give you an introduction to
    orbital mechanics to see what we can do.
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    What are the techniques that you can use
    to actually get to another planet, to
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    bring a spacecraft to another planet and
    also go a few more, go a bit further into
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    some more advanced techniques. So we will
    start with gravity and the two body
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    problem. So this is the basics, the
    underlying physics that we need. Then we
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    will talk about the two main techniques
    maybe to get to Mars, for example, the
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    Hohmann-transfer as well as gravity
    assists. The third point will be an
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    extension of that that's called a planar
    circular restricted three body problem.
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    Sounds pretty complicated, but we will see
    in pictures what it is about. And then we
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    will finally get a taste of certain ways
    to actually be even better, be even more
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    efficient by looking at what's called
    ballistic capture and the weak stability
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    boundary. All right, so let's start. First
    of all, we have gravity and we need to
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    talk about a two body problem. So I'm
    standing here on the stage and I'm
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    actually being well accelerated downwards,
    right? The earth actually attracts me. And
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    this is the same thing that happens for
    any two bodies that have mass. OK. So they
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    attract each other by gravitational force
    and this force will actually accelerate
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    the objects towards each other. Notice
    that the force actually depends on the
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    distance. OK. So we don't need
    to know any details. But in principle, the
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    force gets stronger the closer the objects
    are. OK, good. Now, we can't really
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    analyze this whole thing in every
    detail. So we will make a few assumptions.
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    One of them will be that all our bodies,
    in particular, the Sun, Earth will
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    actually be points, OK? So we will just
    consider points because anything else is
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    too complicated for me. Also, all our
    satellites will actually be just points.
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    One of the reasons is that, in principle,
    you have to deal with the attitude of the
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    satellites. For example, a solar panel
    needs to actually point towards the sun,
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    but of course that's complicated. So we
    will skip this for this talk. Third point
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    is that none of our planets will have an
    atmosphere, so there won't be any
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    friction anywhere in the space. And the
    fourth point is that we will mostly
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    restrict to movement within the plane. So
    we only have like two dimensions during
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    this talk. And also, I will kind of forget
    about certain planets and other masses
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    from time to time. Okay. I'm mentioning
    this because I do not want you to go home
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    this evening, start planning your own
    interplanetary mission, then maybe
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    building your spacecraft tomorrow,
    launching in three days and then a week
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    later I get an e-mail: "Hey, this
    didn't work. I mean, what did you tell me?"
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    OK. So if you actually want to do this at
    home, don't try this just now but please
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    consult your local flight dynamics department,
    they will actually supply with the necessary
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    details. All right. So what's the two body
    problem about? So in principle we have
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    some body - the Sun - and the spacecraft
    that is being attracted by the Sun. Now,
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    the Sun is obviously much heavier than a
    spacecraft, meaning that we will actually
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    neglect the force that the spacecraft
    exerts on the Sun. So instead, the Sun
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    will be at some place. It
    might move in some way, or a
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    planet. But we only care about a
    spacecraft, in general. Furthermore,
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    notice that if you specify the position
    and the velocity of a spacecraft at some
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    point, then the gravitational force will
    actually determine the whole path of the
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    spacecraft for all time. OK. So this path
    is called the orbit and this is what we
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    are talking about. So we want to determine
    orbits. We want to actually find ways how
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    to efficiently change orbits in order to
    actually reach Mars, for example. There is
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    one other thing that you may know from
    your day to day life. If you actually take
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    an object and you put it high up and you
    let it fall down, then it will accelerate.
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    OK. So one way to actually describe this
    is by looking at the energy. There is a
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    kinetic energy that's related to movement,
    to velocity, and there is a potential
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    energy which is related to this
    gravitational field. And the sum of those
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    energies is actually conserved. This means
    that when the spacecraft moves, for
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    example, closer to the Sun, then its
    potential energy will decrease and thus
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    the kinetic energy will increase. So it
    will actually get faster. So you can see
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    this, for example, here. We have
    two bodies that rotate around their
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    center of mass. And if you're careful, if
    you're looking careful when they actually
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    approach each other, then they are quite a
    bit faster. OK. So it is important to keep
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    in mind. All right, so how do spacecrafts
    actually move? So we will now actually
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    assume that we don't use any kind of
    engine, no thruster. We just cruise along
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    the gravitational field. And then there
    are essentially three types of orbits that
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    we can have. One of them are hyperbolas.
    So this case happens if the velocity is
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    very high, because those are not periodic
    solutions. They're not closed. So instead,
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    our spacecraft kind of approaches the Sun
    or the planet in the middle and the center
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    from infinity. It will kind of turn,
    it will change its direction and then it
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    will leave again to infinity. Another
    orbit that may happen as a parabola, this
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    is kind of similar. Actually, we won't
    encounter parabolas during this talk. So I
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    will skip this. And the probably most
    common orbit that we all know are
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    ellipses. In particular circles because,
    well, we know that the Earth is actually
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    moving around the sun approximately in a
    circle. OK. So those are periodic
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    solutions. They are closed. And in
    particular, they are such that if a
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    spacecraft is on one of those orbits and
    it's not doing anything, then it will
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    forever stay on that orbit, OK, in the two
    body problem. So now the problem is we
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    actually want to change this. So we need
    to do something. OK. So we want to change
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    from one circle around the Sun, which
    corresponds to Earth orbit, for example, to
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    another circle around the Sun, which
    corresponds to Mars orbit. And in order to
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    change this, we need to do some kind of
    maneuver. OK. So this is an actual picture
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    of a spacecraft. And what the spacecraft
    is doing, it's emitting some kind of
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    particles in some direction. They have a
    mass m. Those particles might be gases or
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    ions, for example. And because these gases
    or these emissions, they carry some mass,
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    they actually have some momentum due to
    conservation of momentum. This means that
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    the spacecraft actually has to accelerate
    in the opposite direction. OK. So whenever
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    we do this, we will actually accelerate
    the spacecraft and change the velocity and
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    this change of velocity as denoted by a
    delta v. And delta v is sort of the basic
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    quantity that we actually want to look at
    all the time. OK. Because this describes
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    how much thrust we need to actually fly
    in order to change our orbit. Now,
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    unfortunately, it's pretty expensive to,
    well, to apply a lot of delta v. This is
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    due to the costly rocket equation. So the
    fuel that you need in order to reach or to
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    change your velocity to some delta v this
    depends essentially exponentially on the
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    target delta v. So this means we really
    need to take care that we use as few
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    delta v as possible in order to reduce the
    needed fuel. There's one reason for
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    that is... we want to maybe reduce
    costs because then we need to carry
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    less fuel. However, we can also actually
    think the other way round if we actually
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    use less fuel than we can
    bring more stuff for payloads, for
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    missions, for science experiments. Okay.
    So that's why in spacecraft mission
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    design we actually have to take care of
    reducing the amount of delta v that is
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    spent during maneuvers. So let's see, what
    can we actually do? So one example of a
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    very basic maneuver is actually to, well,
    sort of raise the orbit. So imagine you
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    have a spacecraft on a circular orbit
    around, for example, Sun here. Then you
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    might want to raise the orbit
    in the sense that you make it more
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    elliptic and reach higher altitudes. For
    this you just accelerate in the direction
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    that you're flying. So you apply some
    delta v and this will actually change the
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    form of the ellipse. OK. So it's a very
    common scenario. Another one is if you
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    approach a planet from very far away, then
    you might have a very high relative
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    velocity such that with respect to the
    planet, you're on a hyperbolic orbit. OK.
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    So you would actually leave the planet.
    However, if this is actually your
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    target planet that you want to reach, then
    of course you have to enter orbit. You
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    have to somehow slow down. So the idea
    here is that when you approach
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    the closest point to the planet,
    for example, then you actually slow down.
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    So you apply delta v in sort of in the
    opposite direction and change the orbit to
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    something that you prefer, for example an
    ellipse. Because now you will actually
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    stay close to the planet forever. Well, if
    relative it would a two body problem. OK,
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    so. Let's continue. Now, we actually want
    to apply this knowledge to well, getting,
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    for example, to Mars. Let's start with
    Hohmann transfers. Mars and Earth both
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    revolve around the Sun in pretty much
    circular orbits. And our spacecraft starts
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    at the Earth. So now we want to reach
    Mars. How do we do this? Well, we can fly
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    what we just said. So we accelerate
    when we are at the Earth orbit,
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    such that our orbit touches the Mars orbit
    on the other side. OK. So this gives us
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    some amount of delta v we have to apply.
    We need to calculate this. I'm not going
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    to do this. Then we actually fly around
    this orbit for half an ellipse. And once
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    we have reached the Mars orbit, then we
    can actually accelerate again in order to
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    raise other side of the Ellipse until that
    one reaches the Mars orbit. So with two
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    maneuvers, two accelerations, we can
    actually change from one circular orbit to
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    another one. OK. This is the basic idea of
    how you actually fly to Mars. So let's
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    look at an animation. So this is the orbit
    of the InSight mission. That's another Mars
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    mission which launched and landed last
    year. The blue circle is the Earth and the
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    green one is Mars. And the pink is
    actually the satellite or the probe.
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    You can see that, well, it's flying in
    this sort of half ellipse. However, there
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    are two... well, there's just one problem,
    namely when it actually reaches Mars, Mars
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    needs to be there. I mean, that sounds
    trivial. Yeah. But I mean, imagine you fly
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    there and then well, Mars is somewhere
    else, that's not good. I mean this happens
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    pretty regularly when you begin playing a
    Kerbal Space Program, for example.
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    So we don't want to like play around
    with this the whole time, we actually want
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    to hit Mars. So we need to take care of
    that Mars is at the right position when we
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    actually launch. Because it will traverse
    the whole green line during our transfer.
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    This means that we can only launch such a
    Hohmann transfer at very particular times.
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    And sort of this time when you can do
    this transfer is called the transfer
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    window. And for Earth-Mars, for example.
    This is possible every 26 months. So if
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    you miss something, like, software's not
    ready, whatever, then you have to wait for
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    another twenty six months. So, the flight
    itself takes about six months. All right.
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    There is another thing that we kind of
    neglected so far, namely when we start,
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    when we depart from Earth, then well
    there's Earth mainly. And so that's the
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    main source of gravitational force. For
    example, right now I'm standing here on
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    the stage and I experience the Earth. I
    also experience Sun and Mars. But I mean,
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    that's very weak. I can ignore this. So at
    the beginning of our mission to Mars, we
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    actually have to take care that we
    are close to Earth. Then during the
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    flight, the Sun actually dominates the
    gravitational force. So we will only
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    consider this. But then when we approach
    Mars, we actually have to take care about
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    Mars. Okay. So we kind of forgot this
    during the Hohmann transfer. So what you
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    actually do is you patch together
    solutions of these transfers. Yeah. So in
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    this case, there are there are essentially
    three sources of gravitational force so
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    Earth, Sun, Mars. So we will have three two
    body problems that we need to consider.
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    Yeah. One for departing, one for the
    actual Hohmann transfer. And then the third
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    one when we actually approach Mars. So
    this makes this whole thing a bit more
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    complicated. But it's also nice because
    actually we need less delta v than we
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    would for the basic hohmann transfer. One
    reason for this is that when we look at
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    Mars. So the green line is now the Mars
    orbit and the red one is again the
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    spacecraft, it approaches Mars now we can
    actually look at what happens at Mars by
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    kind of zooming into the system of Mars.
    OK. So Mars is now standing still. And
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    then we see that the velocity of the
    spacecraft is actually very high relative
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    to Mars. So it will be on the hyperbolic
    orbit and will actually leave Mars again.
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    You can see this on the left side. Right.
    Because it's leaving Mars again. So what
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    you need to do is, in fact, you need to
    slow down and change your orbit into an
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    ellipse. Okay. And this delta v, is that
    you that you need here for this maneuver
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    it's actually less than the delta v you
    would need to to circularize the orbit to
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    just fly in the same orbit as Mars. So we
    need to slow down. A similar argument
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    actually at Earth shows that, well, if you
    actually launch into space, then you do
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    need quite some speed already to not fall
    down back onto Earth. So that's something
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    like seven kilometers per second or so.
    This means that you already have some
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    speed. OK. And if you align your orbit or
    your launch correctly, then you already
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    have some of the delta v that you need for
    the Hohmann transfer. So in principle, you
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    need quite a bit less delta v than than
    you might naively think. All right. So
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    that much about Hohmann transfer. Let's look
    at Gravity assist. That's another major
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    technique for interplanetary missions. The
    idea is that we can actually use planets
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    to sort of getting pulled along. So this
    is an animation, on the lower animation
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    you see kind of the picture when you look
    at the planet. So the planets standing
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    still and we assume that the spacecraft's
    sort of blue object is on a hyperbolic
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    orbit and it's kind of making a 90 degree
    turn. OK. And the upper image, you
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    actually see the picture when
    you look from the Sun, so the planet is
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    actually moving. And if you look very
    carefully at the blue object then you can
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    see that it is faster. So once it has
    passed, the planet is actually faster.
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    Well, we can actually look at this problem.
    So this is, again, the picture. When
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    Mars is centered, we have some entry
    velocity. Then we are in this hyperbolic
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    orbit. We have an exit velocity. Notice
    that the lengths are actually equal. So
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    it's the same speed. But just a turn
    direction of this example. But then we can
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    look at the whole problem with a moving
    Mars. OK, so now Mars has some velocity
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    v_mars. So the actual velocity that we see
    is the sum of the entry and the Mars
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    velocity before and afterwards exit, plus
    Mars velocity. And if you look at those
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    two arrows, then you see immediately that,
    well, the lengths are different. Okay. So
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    this is just the whole phenomenon here. So
    we see that by actually passing close to
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    such a planet or massive body, we
    can sort of gain free delta v. Okay, so of
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    course, it's not. I mean, the energy is
    still conserved. Okay. But yeah, let's not
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    worry about these details here. Now, the
    nice thing is we can use this technique to
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    actually alter course. We can speed up. So
    this is the example that I'm shown here.
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    But also, we can use this to slow down.
    Okay. So that's a pretty common
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    application as well. We can use this to
    slow down by just changing the arrows,
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    essentially. So just approaching Mars from
    a different direction, essentially. So
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    let's look at the example. And this is
    Bepicolombo. That's actually the reason
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    why I kind of changed the title, because
    Bepicolombo is actually a mission to
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    Mercury. So it was launched last year.
    It's a combined ESA/JAXA mission and it
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    consists of two probes and one thruster
    centrally. So it's a through three stages
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    that you can see in the picture. Yeah.
    That's a pretty awesome mission, actually.
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    It's really nice. But it has in
    particular, a very cool orbit. So that's
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    it. What can we see here? So first of all,
    the blue line, that's actually Earth. The
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    green one, that's Mercury. So that's where
    we want to go. And we have this
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    intermediate turquoise one - that's
    Venus. And well the curve is
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    Bepicolombo's orbit, so it looks pretty
    complicated. Yeah, it's definitely not the
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    Hohmann transfer. And in fact, this
    mission uses nine Gravity assists to reach
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    Mercury. And if you look at the
    path so, for example, right now
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    it actually is very close to Mercury
    because the last five or six Gravity
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    assists are just around Mercury or just
    slow down. OK. And this saves a lot of
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    delta v compared to the standard
    Hohmann transfer. All right. But we
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    want to do even better. OK. So let's now
    actually make the whole problem more
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    complicated in order to hope for some kind
    of nice tricks that we can do. OK, so now
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    we will talk about a planar circular
    restricted three body problem. All right.
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    So in general, the three body problem just
    means, hey, well, instead of two bodies,
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    we have three. OK. They pairwise attract
    each other and then we can solve this
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    whole equation of motion. We can ask a
    computer. And this is one animation of
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    what it could look like. So the three
    masses and their orbits are traced and we
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    see immediately that we don't see anything
    that's super complicated. There is no
  • 22:24 - 22:30
    way we can really... I don't know,
    formulate a whole solution theory for a
  • 22:30 - 22:34
    general three body problem. That's
    complicated. Those are definitely not
  • 22:34 - 22:40
    ellipses. So let's maybe go a step back
    and make the problem a bit easier. OK. So
  • 22:40 - 22:45
    we will now talk about a plane or circular
    restricted three body problem. There are
  • 22:45 - 22:49
    three words. So the first one is
    restricted. Restricted means that in our
  • 22:49 - 22:54
    application case, one of the bodies is
    actually a spacecraft. Spacecrafts are
  • 22:54 - 22:58
    much lighter than, for example, Sun and
    Mars, meaning that we can actually ignore
  • 22:58 - 23:06
    the force that the spacecraft exerts on
    Sun and Mars. Okay. So we will actually
  • 23:06 - 23:12
    consider Sun and Mars to be independent of
    the spacecraft. OK. So in total, we only
  • 23:12 - 23:18
    have like two gravitational forces now
    acting on a spacecraft. So we neglect sort
  • 23:18 - 23:26
    of this other force. Also, we will assume
    that the whole problem is what's called
  • 23:26 - 23:31
    circular. So we assume that Sun and Mars
    actually rotate in circles around their
  • 23:31 - 23:37
    center of mass. This assumption is
    actually pretty okay. We will see a
  • 23:37 - 23:43
    picture right now. So in this graph, for
    example, in this image, you can see that
  • 23:43 - 23:49
    the black situation. So this might be at
    some time, at some point in time. And then
  • 23:49 - 23:55
    later on, Sun and Mars actually have moved
    to the red positions and the spacecraft is
  • 23:55 - 24:01
    at some other place. And now, of course,
    feels some other forces. OK. And also we
  • 24:01 - 24:04
    will assume that this problem is plane,
    meaning again that everything takes place
  • 24:04 - 24:12
    in the plane. OK. So let's look at the
    video. That's a video with a very low
  • 24:12 - 24:20
    frame rate, something like two images per
    day. Maybe it's actually Pluto and Charon.
  • 24:20 - 24:27
    So the larger one, this is the ex-planet
    Pluto. It was taken by New Horizons in
  • 24:27 - 24:34
    2015 and it shows that they actually
    rotate around the center of mass. Yeah. So
  • 24:34 - 24:40
    both actually rotate. This also happens,
    for example, for Sun and Earth or Sun and
  • 24:40 - 24:45
    Mars or sun and Jupiter or also Earth and
    Moon. However, in those other cases, the
  • 24:45 - 24:51
    center of mass is usually contained in the
    larger body. And so this means that in the
  • 24:51 - 24:58
    case of Sun-Earth, for example, the Sun
    will just wiggle a little bit. OK. So you
  • 24:58 - 25:04
    don't really see this extensive rotation.
    OK. Now, this problem is still difficult.
  • 25:04 - 25:10
    OK. So if you're putting out a mass in
    there, then you don't really
  • 25:10 - 25:15
    know what happens. However, there's a nice
    trick to simplify this problem. And
  • 25:15 - 25:20
    unfortunately, I can't do this here. But
    maybe all the viewers at home, they can
  • 25:20 - 25:25
    try to do this. You can take your laptop.
    Please don't do this. And you can rotate
  • 25:25 - 25:34
    your laptop at the same speed as this
    image actually rotates. OK. Well, then
  • 25:34 - 25:39
    what happens? The two masses will actually
    stand still from your point of view. OK.
  • 25:39 - 25:45
    If you do it carefully and don't break
    anything. So we switch to this sort of
  • 25:45 - 25:51
    rotating point of view. OK, then the two
    masses stand still. We still have the two
  • 25:51 - 25:56
    gravitational forces towards Sun and Mars.
    But because we kind of look at it from a
  • 25:56 - 26:01
    rotated or from a moving point of view, we
    get two new forces, those forces, you
  • 26:01 - 26:05
    know, the centrifugal forces, of
    course, the one that, for example, you
  • 26:05 - 26:12
    have when you play with some
    children or so, they want to be pulled in
  • 26:12 - 26:17
    a circle very quickly and then they start
    flying and that's pretty cool. But here we
  • 26:17 - 26:22
    actually have this force acting on the
    spacecraft. Okay. And also there is the
  • 26:22 - 26:27
    Coriolis force, which is a bit less known.
    This depends on the velocity of the
  • 26:27 - 26:32
    spacecraft. OK. So if there is no velocity
    in particular, then there will not be any
  • 26:32 - 26:38
    Coriolis force. So our new problem
    actually has four forces. OK, but the
  • 26:38 - 26:44
    advantage is that Sun and Mars actually
    are standing still. So we don't need to
  • 26:44 - 26:51
    worry about their movement. OK. So now how
    does this look like? Well, this might be
  • 26:51 - 26:56
    an example for an orbit. Well, that looks
    still pretty complicated. I mean, this is
  • 26:56 - 27:02
    something that you can't have in a two
    body problem. It has these weird wiggles.
  • 27:02 - 27:06
    I mean, they're not really corners. And it
    actually kind of switches from Sun to
  • 27:06 - 27:11
    Mars. Yes. So it stays close to Sun for
    some time and it moves somewhere else as
  • 27:11 - 27:16
    it, it's still pretty complicated. I don't
    know. Maybe some of you have have read the
  • 27:16 - 27:23
    book "The Three-Body Problem". So there,
    for example, the two masses might be a
  • 27:23 - 27:29
    binary star system. OK. And then you have
    a planet that's actually moving along such
  • 27:29 - 27:36
    an orbit. OK, that looks pretty bad. So in
    particular, the seasons might be somewhat
  • 27:36 - 27:42
    messed up. Yeah. So this problem is, in
    fact, in a strong mathematical sense,
  • 27:42 - 27:47
    chaotic. OK. So chaotic means something
    like if you start with very close initial
  • 27:47 - 27:52
    conditions and you just let the system
    evolve, then the solutions will look very,
  • 27:52 - 27:59
    very different. OK. And this really
    happens here, which is good. All right. So
  • 27:59 - 28:04
    one thing we can ask is, well, is it
    possible that if we put a spacecraft into
  • 28:04 - 28:08
    the system without any velocity, is it
    possible that all the forces actually
  • 28:08 - 28:12
    cancel out. And it turns out yes, it is
    possible. And those points are called
  • 28:12 - 28:18
    Lagrangian points. So if we have zero
    velocity, there is no Coriolis force. So
  • 28:18 - 28:23
    we have only these three forces. And as
    you can see in this little schematics
  • 28:23 - 28:32
    here, it's possible that all these forces
    actually cancel out. Now imagine. Yeah. I
  • 28:32 - 28:37
    give you a homework. Please calculate all
    these possible points. Then you can do
  • 28:37 - 28:42
    this. But we won't do this right here.
    Instead, we just look at the result. So
  • 28:42 - 28:48
    those are the five Lagrangian points in
    this problem. OK, so we have L4 and L5
  • 28:48 - 28:52
    which are at equilateral triangles with
    Sun and Mars. Well, Sun - Mars in this
  • 28:52 - 29:00
    case. And we have L1, L2 and L3 on the
    line through Sun and Mars. So if you put
  • 29:00 - 29:05
    the spacecraft precisely at L1 without any
    velocity, then in relation to Sun and Mars
  • 29:05 - 29:10
    it will actually stay at the same position.
    Okay, that's pretty cool. However,
  • 29:10 - 29:16
    mathematicians and physicists will
    immediately ask well, OK, but what happens
  • 29:16 - 29:22
    if I actually put a spacecraft close to a
    Lagrangian point? OK, so this is
  • 29:22 - 29:28
    related to what's called stability. And
    you can calculate that around L4 and L5.
  • 29:28 - 29:33
    The spacecraft will actually stay in the
    vicinity. So it will essentially rotate
  • 29:33 - 29:39
    around the Lagrangian points. So those are
    called stable, whereas L1, L2 and L3 are
  • 29:39 - 29:44
    actually unstable. This means that if you
    put a spacecraft there, then it will
  • 29:44 - 29:51
    eventually escape. However, this takes a
    different amount of time depending on the
  • 29:51 - 29:55
    Lagrangian points. For example, if you're
    close to L2, this might take a few months,
  • 29:55 - 29:59
    but if you're close to L3, this will
    actually take something like a hundred
  • 29:59 - 30:08
    years or so. Okay, so those points are
    still different. All right. Okay. So
  • 30:08 - 30:11
    is there actually any evidence that they
    exist? I mean, maybe I'm just making this
  • 30:11 - 30:15
    up and, you know, I mean, haven't shown
    you any equations. I could just throw
  • 30:15 - 30:20
    anything. However, we can actually look at
    the solar system. So this is the inner
  • 30:20 - 30:24
    solar system here. In the middle you see,
    well, the center you see the Sun, of
  • 30:24 - 30:29
    course. And to the lower left, there's
    Jupiter. Now, if you imagine an
  • 30:29 - 30:35
    equilateral triangle of Sun and Jupiter,
    well, there are two of them. And then you
  • 30:35 - 30:41
    see all these green dots there. And those
    are asteroids. Those are the Trojans and
  • 30:41 - 30:48
    the Greeks. And they accumulate there
    because L4 and L5 are stable. Okay. So we
  • 30:48 - 30:55
    can really see this dynamics gone on in
    the solar system. However, there's also
  • 30:55 - 30:59
    various other applications of Lagrangian
    points. So in particular, you might want
  • 30:59 - 31:06
    to put a space telescope somewhere in
    space, of course, in such a way that the
  • 31:06 - 31:12
    Sun is not blinding you. Well, there is
    Earth, of course. So if we can put the
  • 31:12 - 31:19
    spacecraft behind Earth, then we might be
    in the shadow. And this is the Lagrangian
  • 31:19 - 31:25
    point L2, which is the reason why this is
    actually being used for space telescopes
  • 31:25 - 31:30
    such as, for example, this one. However,
    it turns out L2 is unstable. So we don't
  • 31:30 - 31:35
    really want to put the spacecraft just
    there. But instead, we put it in an orbit
  • 31:35 - 31:41
    close... in a close orbit, close to L2.
    And this particular example is called the
  • 31:41 - 31:45
    Halo orbit, and it's actually not
    contained in the planes. I'm cheating a
  • 31:45 - 31:48
    little bit. It's on the right hand side to
    you. And in the animation you actually see
  • 31:48 - 31:54
    the the orbit from the side. So it
    actually leaves the plane the blue dot is
  • 31:54 - 32:01
    Earth and the left hand side you see
    the actual orbit from the top. So
  • 32:01 - 32:06
    it's rotating around this place. OK. So
    that's the James Webb Space Telescope, by
  • 32:06 - 32:11
    the way. You can see in the animation it's
    supposed to launch in 2018. That didn't
  • 32:11 - 32:20
    work out, unfortunately, but stay tuned.
    Another example. That's how it has become
  • 32:20 - 32:26
    pretty famous recently as the Chinese
    Queqiao relay satellite. This one sits at
  • 32:26 - 32:31
    the Earth - Moon L2 Lagrange point. And
    the reason for this is that the Chinese
  • 32:31 - 32:38
    wanted to or actually did land the Chang'e 4
    Moon lander on the backside of the Moon.
  • 32:38 - 32:42
    And in order to stay in contact, radio
    contact with the lander, they had to put a
  • 32:42 - 32:48
    relay satellite behind the Moon, which
    they could still see from Earth. And they
  • 32:48 - 33:00
    chose some similar orbit around L2. OK. So
    let's now go to some other more advanced
  • 33:00 - 33:08
    technique: ballistic capture. Right. Okay.
    So this whole business sort of started
  • 33:08 - 33:14
    with a mission from the beginning of the
    1990s, and that's the Hiten mission. So
  • 33:14 - 33:20
    that was a Japanese well, Moon probe
    consisted of a probe which had a small
  • 33:20 - 33:26
    orbiter site which was separated, and then
    it was supposed to actually enter orbit
  • 33:26 - 33:32
    around Moon. Unfortunately, it missed its
    maneuver. So it didn't apply enough delta v
  • 33:32 - 33:38
    so it actually flew off. And the
    mission was sort of lost at that point
  • 33:38 - 33:42
    because Hiten itself, so the main probe
    did not have enough fuel to reach the
  • 33:42 - 33:48
    Moon. All right. That's, of course, a
    problem. I mean, that's a risk you have to
  • 33:48 - 33:53
    take. And they were probably pretty
    devastated. However, there were two people
  • 33:53 - 34:01
    from JPL, NASA, who actually heard about
    this, Belbruno and Miller, and they were
  • 34:01 - 34:08
    working on strange orbits, those ballistic
    capture orbits. And they actually found
  • 34:08 - 34:15
    one for the Hiten probe. They sent this to
    the Japanese and they actually use that
  • 34:15 - 34:23
    orbit to get the Hiten probe to the moon.
    And it actually arrived in October 1991.
  • 34:23 - 34:26
    And then it could do some
    science, you know, maybe some
  • 34:26 - 34:31
    different experiments, but it actually
    arrived there. However, the transfer took
  • 34:31 - 34:37
    quite a bit longer. So a normal Moon
    transfer takes like three days or so. But
  • 34:37 - 34:42
    this one actually took a few months. All
    right. And the reason for this is that it
  • 34:42 - 34:49
    looks pretty weird. So this is a
    picture of the orbiter - schematic picture.
  • 34:49 - 34:54
    And you can see the Earth. Well, there in
    the middle sort of. And the Moon a bit to
  • 34:54 - 35:02
    the left at the L2 is the Lagrangian point
    of the Sun - Earth system. OK. So it's
  • 35:02 - 35:07
    pretty far out. And you can see that the
    orbit sort of consists of two parts.
  • 35:07 - 35:13
    First, it leaves Earth and it flies far
    beyond the Moon. So somewhere completely
  • 35:13 - 35:19
    different towards some other Lagrangian
    point. That's really far away. Then it
  • 35:19 - 35:24
    does some weird things. And in the upper
    part of picture there it actually does a
  • 35:24 - 35:30
    maneuver. So we apply some thrusts there
    to be to change on a different orbit. And
  • 35:30 - 35:37
    this orbit led the probe directly to the
    moon where it was essentially captured for
  • 35:37 - 35:42
    free. OK. So it just entered orbit around
    the Moon. And this is, of course, not
  • 35:42 - 35:46
    possible in the two body problem, but we
    may find a way for doing this in the three
  • 35:46 - 35:57
    body problem. OK, so what do we mean by
    capture? Now we have to sort of think
  • 35:57 - 36:02
    a bit more abstractly. The idea is...
    we have Sun and Mars and we
  • 36:02 - 36:08
    have a spacecraft that flies in this three
    body problem. So the red orbit is actually
  • 36:08 - 36:15
    the orbit of the spacecraft. Now, at any
    point in time, we may decide to just
  • 36:15 - 36:21
    forget about the Sun. OK. So instead we
    consider the two body problem of Mars and
  • 36:21 - 36:27
    a spacecraft. OK. Because at this point
    in time, the spacecraft has a certain
  • 36:27 - 36:31
    position relative to Mars and a certain
    velocity. So this determines its orbit in
  • 36:31 - 36:36
    the two body problem. Usually it would be
    very fast. So it would be on a hyperbolic
  • 36:36 - 36:43
    orbit, which is denoted by the dashed line
    here. OK. Or a dashed curve. So usually
  • 36:43 - 36:47
    you happen to be in a hyperbolic orbit.
    But of course, that orbit is only an
  • 36:47 - 36:50
    approximation because in the three body
    problem, the movement is actually
  • 36:50 - 36:57
    different. But later on, it might happen
    that we continue on the orbit. We can do
  • 36:57 - 37:02
    the same kind of construction, but just
    looking... but just ignoring the Sun
  • 37:02 - 37:10
    essentially, and then we could find that
    the spacecraft suddenly is in a elliptical
  • 37:10 - 37:14
    orbit. This would mean that if you
    forgot about the Sun, then the spacecraft
  • 37:14 - 37:20
    would be stable and would be captured by
    Mars. It would be there. That would be
  • 37:20 - 37:27
    pretty nice. So this phenomenon, when this
    happens, we call this a temporary capture.
  • 37:27 - 37:34
    OK. Temporary because it might actually
    leave that situation again later on. Now,
  • 37:34 - 37:37
    because the actual movement depends on the
    three body problem, which is super
  • 37:37 - 37:42
    complicated. So it's possible that it
    actually leaves again. But for that moment
  • 37:42 - 37:46
    at least, it's captured and we want to
    find a way or describe some kind of
  • 37:46 - 37:54
    algorithm perhaps how we can find
    this situation essentially. OK, and in a
  • 37:54 - 38:01
    reasonable way, and the notion for this is
    what's called, well, n-stability, the idea
  • 38:01 - 38:08
    is the following: we look at the three
    body probleme, we want to go to Mars. So we
  • 38:08 - 38:13
    pick a line there. And on the line we take
    a point x, which has some distance r to
  • 38:13 - 38:20
    the Mars and we pick a perpendicular
    speed, a perpendicular velocity to the
  • 38:20 - 38:26
    line such that this corresponds to some
    kind of elliptic orbit in the two body
  • 38:26 - 38:30
    problem. Okay. So that's the dashed line.
    But then we actually look at the problem
  • 38:30 - 38:38
    in the three body problem and we just
    evolve the spacecraft. And it's following
  • 38:38 - 38:46
    the red orbit. It might follow the red
    orbit. And it can happen that after going
  • 38:46 - 38:54
    around Mars for one time, it hits again
    the line. Okay, then we can do the same
  • 38:54 - 39:00
    construction with forgetting the Sun again
    and just look at the two body problem. And
  • 39:00 - 39:05
    it's possible that this point actually
    still corresponds to an elliptic orbit.
  • 39:05 - 39:11
    That's somewhat interesting, right?
    Because now this means that if we actually
  • 39:11 - 39:17
    hit the point x, then we can follow the
    orbit and we know that we wrap around
  • 39:17 - 39:24
    Mars once and are still sort of captured
    in the corresponding two body problem.
  • 39:24 - 39:29
    Okay. If we actually are able to wrap
    around Mars twice, then we would call this
  • 39:29 - 39:36
    2-stable and, well, for more rotations
    that it is n-stable. Okay, so that's good
  • 39:36 - 39:39
    because such an orbit corresponds to
    something that's usable because we will
  • 39:39 - 39:45
    wrap around Mars n times. However, it's
    also possible that you have an unstable
  • 39:45 - 39:49
    point, meaning that we again start in
    something that corresponds to an ellipse
  • 39:49 - 39:54
    around Mars. But if we actually follow the
    orbit in a three body problem, it will,
  • 39:54 - 39:58
    for example, not come back. It will not
    wrap around Mars, it will go to the Sun or
  • 39:58 - 40:03
    somewhere else. OK. So that's that's of
    course, not a nice point. This one's
  • 40:03 - 40:10
    called unstable. And then there's another
    thing we can do. That's actually a pretty
  • 40:10 - 40:18
    common trick in finding orbits, etc. We
    can instead of solving the problem in
  • 40:18 - 40:24
    forward time we actually go back, okay. So
    essentially in your program you just
  • 40:24 - 40:29
    replace time by minus time, for example,
    and then you just solve the thing and you
  • 40:29 - 40:37
    go back in the past and it's possible
    that a point that corresponds to such
  • 40:37 - 40:42
    an ellipse when you go back into the past
    and it does not wrap around, but it
  • 40:42 - 40:47
    actually goes to the Sun, for example, we
    call this unstable in the past. Okay. So
  • 40:47 - 40:57
    that's just some random definition.
    And we can use this. The reason for
  • 40:57 - 41:05
    this is we can actually kind of take these
    concepts together and build an orbit from
  • 41:05 - 41:13
    that. The idea being we pick a point x
    that is n-stable. So, for example, it
  • 41:13 - 41:20
    might wrap around Mars six times, some
    number that we like. This is the blue part
  • 41:20 - 41:24
    here in the picture. So it wraps around
    Mars six times. But the way we go back in
  • 41:24 - 41:31
    time, it actually leaves Mars or at least
    it doesn't come back in such a way that
  • 41:31 - 41:42
    it's again on an ecliptic curve. So this
    is the red part. Okay. So we can
  • 41:42 - 41:48
    just follow this and then we pick a point
    y on that curve. Okay. So this one will be
  • 41:48 - 41:58
    pretty far away from Mars or we can choose
    it. And then we sort of use a Hohmann
  • 41:58 - 42:04
    transfer to get from Earth to that point
    y. Okay? So our orbit actually consists of
  • 42:04 - 42:09
    three parts now. Okay. So we have the
    Hohmann transfer, but it's not actually
  • 42:09 - 42:14
    aiming for Mars. It's actually aiming for
    the point y. There we do a maneuver
  • 42:14 - 42:21
    because we want to switch onto this red
    orbit. Okay. And then this one will bring
  • 42:21 - 42:29
    us to the point x where we know because it
    was constructed in this way that the
  • 42:29 - 42:36
    spacecraft will continue to rotate around
    Mars for example six times. Okay. So in
  • 42:36 - 42:44
    particular at x there is no maneuver
    taking place. Okay. So that's a
  • 42:44 - 42:49
    possible mission scenario. And the way
    this is done then usually is you kind of..
  • 42:49 - 42:54
    you calculate these points x that
    are suitable for doing this. Okay. So they
  • 42:54 - 42:58
    have to be stable and unstable in the past
    at the same time. So we have to find them.
  • 42:58 - 43:02
    And there's a lot of numerical
    computations involved in that. But once we
  • 43:02 - 43:07
    have this, you can actually build these
    orbits. OK. So let's look at an actual
  • 43:07 - 43:16
    example. So this is for Earth - Mars. On
    the left, you see, well, that the two
  • 43:16 - 43:23
    circular orbits of Earth, Mars, and on the
    right you see the same orbit, but from a
  • 43:23 - 43:28
    point of view centered around Mars. Okay.
    And the colors correspond to each other.
  • 43:28 - 43:32
    So the mission starts on the left side by
    doing a Hohmann transfer. So that's the
  • 43:32 - 43:36
    black line starting at Earth and then
    hitting the point, which is called x_c
  • 43:36 - 43:42
    here. So that's the y that I had on
    the other slide. So this point y
  • 43:42 - 43:48
    or x_c here is pretty far away still from
    Mars. There we do a maneuver and we switch
  • 43:48 - 43:57
    under the red orbit. Which brings us to
    the point x closer to Mars, after which we
  • 43:57 - 44:01
    will actually start rotating round Mars.
    And the point x is actually at the top of
  • 44:01 - 44:09
    this picture. Okay. And then on the right
    you can see the orbit and it's looking
  • 44:09 - 44:14
    pretty strangely. And also the red
    orbit is when we kind of the capture orbit
  • 44:14 - 44:19
    our way to actually get to Mars. And then
    if you look very carefully, you can count
  • 44:19 - 44:27
    we actually rotate around Mars six
    times. Okay. Now, during those six
  • 44:27 - 44:32
    rotations around Mars, we could do
    experiments. So maybe that is enough for
  • 44:32 - 44:37
    whatever we are trying to do. OK. However,
    if we want to stay there, we need to
  • 44:37 - 44:45
    actually execute another maneuver. OK. So
    to actually stay around Mars. And I mean,
  • 44:45 - 44:48
    the principle looks nice but of course,
    you have to do some calculations. We have
  • 44:48 - 44:56
    to find some ways to actually quantify how
    good this is. And it turns out that there
  • 44:56 - 45:02
    are few parameters that you can choose,
    in particular the target point x, this has
  • 45:02 - 45:07
    a certain distance that you're aiming for
    at around Mars. And it turns out that this
  • 45:07 - 45:14
    procedure here, for example, is only very
    good if this altitude, this distance r is
  • 45:14 - 45:18
    actually high enough. If it is high enough
    then you can save - in principle - up to
  • 45:18 - 45:24
    twenty three percent of the delta v, which
    is enormous. OK. So that would
  • 45:24 - 45:29
    be really good. However, in reality it's
    not as good usually. Yeah. And for a
  • 45:29 - 45:35
    certain lower distances, for example, you
    cannot save anything, so there are
  • 45:35 - 45:41
    certain tradeoffs to make. However, there
    is another advantage. Remember this point y?
  • 45:41 - 45:46
    We chose this along this capture orbit
    along the red orbit. And the thing is, we
  • 45:46 - 45:51
    can actually choose this freely. This
    means that our Hohmann transfer doesn't
  • 45:51 - 45:55
    need to hit Mars directly when it's there.
    So it doesn't need to aim for that
  • 45:55 - 46:03
    particular point. It can actually aim for
    any point on that capture orbit. This
  • 46:03 - 46:06
    means that we have many more Hohmann
    transfers available that we can actually
  • 46:06 - 46:12
    use to get there. This means that we have
    a far larger transfer window. OK. So we
  • 46:12 - 46:18
    cannot just start every 26 months. But now
    we, with this technique, we could actually
  • 46:18 - 46:24
    launch. Well, quite often. However,
    there's a little problem. If you looked at
  • 46:24 - 46:34
    the graph carefully, then you may have
    seen that the red orbit actually took like
  • 46:34 - 46:39
    three quarters of the rotation of Mars.
    This corresponds to roughly something like
  • 46:39 - 46:44
    400 days. OK. So this takes a long time.
    So you probably don't want to use this
  • 46:44 - 46:49
    with humans on board because they have to
    actually wait for a long time. But in
  • 46:49 - 46:53
    principle, there are ways to make this
    shorter. So you can try to actually
  • 46:53 - 46:58
    improve on this, but in general, it takes
    a long time. So let's look at a real
  • 46:58 - 47:05
    example for this. Again, that's
    Bepicolombo. The green dot is now Mercury.
  • 47:05 - 47:10
    So this is kind of a zoom of the other
    animation and the purple line is the
  • 47:10 - 47:21
    orbit. And yeah, it looks strange. So the
    first few movements around Mercury,
  • 47:21 - 47:28
    they are actually the last gravity assists
    for slowing down. And then it actually
  • 47:28 - 47:37
    starts on the capture orbit. So now it
    actually approaches Mercury. So this is
  • 47:37 - 47:41
    the part that's sort of difficult to find,
    but which you can do with this stability.
  • 47:41 - 47:46
    And once the animation actually ends,
    this is when it actually reaches the point
  • 47:46 - 47:52
    when it's temporarily captured. So in this
    case, this is at an altitude of 180,000
  • 47:52 - 47:58
    kilometers. So it is pretty high up above
    Mercury, but it's enough for the mission.
  • 47:58 - 48:03
    OK. And of course, then they do some
    other maneuver to actually stay around
  • 48:03 - 48:12
    Mercury. Okay, so in the last few minutes,
    let's have a look. Let's have a brief look
  • 48:12 - 48:19
    at how we can actually extend this. So I
    will be very brief here, because while we
  • 48:19 - 48:24
    can try to actually make this more general
    to improve on this, this concept is then
  • 48:24 - 48:29
    called the interplanetary transport
    network. And it looks a bit similar to
  • 48:29 - 48:36
    what we just saw. The idea is that, in
    fact, this capture orbit is part of a
  • 48:36 - 48:43
    larger well, a set of orbits that have
    these kinds of properties that wrap around
  • 48:43 - 48:49
    Mars and then kind of leave Mars. And
    they are very closely related to the
  • 48:49 - 48:53
    dynamics of particular Lagrangian points,
    in this case L1. So that was the one
  • 48:53 - 49:00
    between the two masses. And if you
    investigate this Lagrangian point a bit
  • 49:00 - 49:06
    closer, you can see, well, you can see
    different orbits of all kinds of
  • 49:06 - 49:11
    behaviors. And if you understand this,
    then you can actually try to do the same
  • 49:11 - 49:17
    thing on the other side of the Lagrangian
    point. OK. So we just kind of switch from
  • 49:17 - 49:21
    Mars to the Sun and we do a similar thing
    there. Now we expect to actually find
  • 49:21 - 49:25
    similar orbits that are wrapping around
    the Sun and then going towards this
  • 49:25 - 49:32
    Lagrangian point in a similar way. Well,
    then we already have some orbits that are
  • 49:32 - 49:39
    well, kind of meeting at L1. So we might
    be able to actually connect them somehow,
  • 49:39 - 49:45
    for example by maneuver. And then we only
    need to reach the orbit around Earth or
  • 49:45 - 49:50
    around Sun from Earth. OK. If you find a
    way to do this, you can get rid of the
  • 49:50 - 49:55
    Hohmann transfer. And this way you reduce
    your delta v even further. The problem is
  • 49:55 - 50:01
    that this is hard to find because these
    orbits they are pretty rare. And of
  • 50:01 - 50:07
    course, you have to connect those orbits.
    So they you approach the Lagrangian point
  • 50:07 - 50:14
    from L1 from two sides, but you don't
    really want to wait forever until they...
  • 50:14 - 50:20
    it's very easy to switch or so, so instead
    you apply some delta v, OK, in order to
  • 50:20 - 50:24
    not wait that long. So here's a picture
    of how this might look like. Again
  • 50:24 - 50:29
    very schematic. So we have Sun, we
    have Mars and in between there is the
  • 50:29 - 50:35
    Lagrangian point L1. The red orbit is sort
    of an extension of one of those capture
  • 50:35 - 50:38
    orbits that we have seen. OK, so that
    wraps around Mars a certain number of
  • 50:38 - 50:45
    times. And while in the past, for example,
    it actually goes to Lagrangian point. I
  • 50:45 - 50:51
    didn't explain this, but in fact, there
    are many more orbits around L1, closed
  • 50:51 - 50:55
    orbits, but they're all unstable. And
    these orbits that are used in this
  • 50:55 - 51:05
    interplanetary transport network they
    actually approach those orbits around L1
  • 51:05 - 51:11
    and we do the same thing on the other side
    of the Sun now and then the idea is, OK,
  • 51:11 - 51:16
    we take these orbits, we connect
    them. And when we are in the black orbit
  • 51:16 - 51:19
    around L1, we actually apply some
    maneuver, we apply some delta v to
  • 51:19 - 51:22
    actually switch from one to the other. And
    then we have sort of a connection of how
  • 51:22 - 51:28
    to get from Sun to Mars. So we just need
    to do a similar thing again from for Earth
  • 51:28 - 51:35
    to this particular blue orbit around the
    Sun. OK. So that's the general procedure.
  • 51:35 - 51:38
    But of course, it's difficult. And in the
    end, you have to do a lot of numerics
  • 51:38 - 51:45
    because as I said at the beginning, this
    is just a brief overview. It's not all the
  • 51:45 - 51:51
    details. Please don't launch your
    own mission tomorrow. OK. So with
  • 51:51 - 51:55
    this, I want to thank you.
    And I'm open to questions.
  • 51:55 - 52:06
    Applause
  • 52:06 - 52:08
    Herald: So thank you Sven for an
    interesting talk. We have a few minutes
  • 52:08 - 52:11
    for questions, if you have any questions
    lined up next to the microphones, we'll
  • 52:11 - 52:18
    start with microphone number one.
    Mic1: Hello. So what are the problems
  • 52:18 - 52:23
    associated? So you showed in the end is
    going around to Lagrange Point L1?
  • 52:23 - 52:27
    Although this is also possible for
  • 52:27 - 52:30
    other Lagrange points. Could you do this
    with L2?
  • 52:30 - 52:38
    Sven: Yes, you can. Yeah. So in principle,
    I didn't show the whole picture, but
  • 52:38 - 52:43
    these kind of orbits, they exist at L1,
    but they also exist at L2. And in
  • 52:43 - 52:49
    principle you can this way sort of leave
    this two body problem by finding similar
  • 52:49 - 52:54
    orbits. But of course the the details are
    different. So you cannot really take your
  • 52:54 - 52:59
    knowledge or your calculations from L1
    and just taking over to L2, you actually
  • 52:59 - 53:03
    have to do the same thing again. You have
    to calculate everything in detail.
  • 53:03 - 53:07
    Herald: To a question from the Internet.
    Signal Angel: Is it possible to use these
  • 53:07 - 53:11
    kinds of transfers in Kerbal Space
    Program?
  • 53:11 - 53:24
    Sven: So Hohmann transfers, of course,
    the gravity assists as well, but not the
  • 53:24 - 53:29
    restricted three body problem because the
    way Kerbal Space Program at least the
  • 53:29 - 53:33
    default installation so without any mods
    works is that it actually switches the
  • 53:33 - 53:40
    gravitational force. So the thing that I
    described as a patch solution where we
  • 53:40 - 53:46
    kind of switch our picture, which
    gravitational force we consider for our
  • 53:46 - 53:51
    two body problem. This is actually the way
    the physics is implemented in Kerbal space
  • 53:51 - 53:55
    program. So we can't really do the
    interplanetary transport network there.
  • 53:55 - 54:00
    However, I think there's a mod that allows
    this, but your computer might be too slow
  • 54:00 - 54:04
    for this, I don't know.
    Herald: If you're leaving please do so
  • 54:04 - 54:07
    quietly. Small question and question from
    microphone number four.
  • 54:07 - 54:13
    Mic4: Hello. I have actually two
    questions. I hope that's okay. First
  • 54:13 - 54:18
    question is, I wonder how you do that in
    like your practical calculations. Like you
  • 54:18 - 54:23
    said, there's a two body problem and
    there are solutions that you can
  • 54:23 - 54:27
    calculate with a two body problem. And
    then there's a three body problem. And I
  • 54:27 - 54:32
    imagine there's an n-body problem all the
    time you do things. So how does it look
  • 54:32 - 54:38
    when you do that? And the second
    question is: you said that reducing delta v
  • 54:38 - 54:48
    about 15% is enormous. And I wonder what
    effect does this have on the payload?
  • 54:48 - 54:58
    Sven: Okay. So regarding the first
    question. So in principle, I mean, you
  • 54:58 - 55:05
    make a plan for a mission. So you have to
    you calculate those things in these
  • 55:05 - 55:09
    simplified models. Okay. You kind of you
    patch together an idea of what you want to
  • 55:09 - 55:15
    do. But of course, in the end, you're
    right, there are actually many massive
  • 55:15 - 55:19
    bodies in the solar system. And because we
    want to be precise, we actually have to
  • 55:19 - 55:25
    incorporate all of them. So in the end,
    you have to do an actual numerical search
  • 55:25 - 55:32
    in a much more complicated n-body problem.
    So with, I don't know, 100 bodies or so
  • 55:32 - 55:38
    and you have to incorporate other effects.
    For example, the solar radiation might
  • 55:38 - 55:43
    actually have a little influence on your
    orbit. Okay. And there are many effects of
  • 55:43 - 55:48
    this kind. So once you have a rough idea
    of what you want to do, you need to take
  • 55:48 - 55:53
    your very good physics simulator for the
    n-body problem, which actually has all
  • 55:53 - 55:57
    these other effects as well. And then you
    need to do a numerical search over this.
  • 55:57 - 56:01
    Kind of, you know, where to start with
    these ideas, where to look for solutions.
  • 56:01 - 56:07
    But then you actually have to just try it
    and figure out some algorithm to actually
  • 56:07 - 56:12
    approach a solution that has to behaviors
    that you want. But it's a lot of numerics.
  • 56:12 - 56:16
    Right. And the second question, can you
    remind me again? Sorry.
  • 56:16 - 56:24
    Mic4: Well, the second question was in
    reducing delta v about 15%. What is the
  • 56:24 - 56:29
    effect on the payload?
    Sven: Right. So, I mean, if you need
  • 56:29 - 56:36
    15% less fuel, then of course you can use
    15% more weight for more mass for the
  • 56:36 - 56:40
    payload. Right. So you could put maybe
    another instrument on there. Another thing
  • 56:40 - 56:46
    you could do is actually keep the fuel but
    actually use it for station keeping. So,
  • 56:46 - 56:53
    for example, in the James Webb telescope
    example, the James Webb telescope flies
  • 56:53 - 56:59
    around this Halo orbit around L2, but the
    orbit itself is unstable. So the James
  • 56:59 - 57:04
    Webb Space Telescope will actually escape
    from that orbit. So they have to do a few
  • 57:04 - 57:08
    maneuvers every year to actually stay
    there. And they have only a finite amount
  • 57:08 - 57:13
    of fuels at some point. This won't be
    possible anymore. So reducing delta v
  • 57:13 - 57:21
    requirements might actually have increased
    the mission lifetime by quite a bit.
  • 57:21 - 57:25
    Herald: Number three.
    Mic3: Hey. When you do such a
  • 57:25 - 57:30
    mission, I guess you have to adjust the
    trajectory of your satellite quite often
  • 57:30 - 57:34
    because nothing goes exactly as you
    calculated it. Right. And the question is,
  • 57:34 - 57:39
    how precise can you measure the orbit?
    Sorry, the position and the speed of a
  • 57:39 - 57:44
    spacecraft at, let's say, Mars. What's the
    resolution?
  • 57:44 - 57:48
    Sven: Right. So from Mars, I'm not
    completely sure how precise it is. But for
  • 57:48 - 57:52
    example, if you have an Earth observation
    mission, so something that's flying around
  • 57:52 - 57:58
    Earth, then you can have a rather precise
    orbit that's good enough for taking
  • 57:58 - 58:04
    pictures on Earth, for example, for
    something like two weeks or so. So
  • 58:04 - 58:12
    you can measure the orbit well enough and
    calculate the future something like two
  • 58:12 - 58:21
    weeks in the future. OK. So that's good
    enough. However. Yeah. The... I can't
  • 58:21 - 58:26
    really give you good numbers on what the
    accuracy is, but depending on the
  • 58:26 - 58:31
    situation, you know, it can get pretty
    well for Mars I guess that's pretty
  • 58:31 - 58:35
    far, I guess that will be a bit less.
    Herald: A very short question for
  • 58:35 - 58:39
    microphone number one, please.
    Mic1: Thank you. Thank you for the talk.
  • 58:39 - 58:45
    I have a small question. As you said, you
    roughly plan the trip using the three
  • 58:45 - 58:51
    body and two body problems. And are there
    any stable points like Lagrangian points
  • 58:51 - 58:54
    in there, for example, four body problem?
    And can you use them to... during the
  • 58:54 - 59:00
    roughly planning stage of...
    Sven: Oh, yeah. I actually wondered
  • 59:00 - 59:04
    about this very recently as well. And I
    don't know the answer. I'm not sure. So
  • 59:04 - 59:07
    the three body problem is already
    complicated enough from a mathematical
  • 59:07 - 59:12
    point of view. So I have never actually
    really looked at a four body problem.
  • 59:12 - 59:18
    However with those many bodies, there
    are at least very symmetrical solutions.
  • 59:18 - 59:22
    So you can find some, but it's a different
    thing than Lagrangian points, right.
  • 59:22 - 59:26
    Herald: So unfortunately we're almost out
    of time for this talk. If you have more
  • 59:26 - 59:30
    questions, I'm sure Sven will be happy to
    take them afterwards to talk. So please
  • 59:30 - 59:33
    approach him after. And again, a big
    round of applause for the topic.
  • 59:33 - 59:34
    Sven: Thank you.
  • 59:34 - 59:40
    Applause
  • 59:40 - 59:49
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Title:
36C3 - Thrust is not an Option: How to get to Mars really slow
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