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34C3 - Forensic Architecture

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    34c3 intro
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    Herald: Okay, so again, once again: Good
    morning to everyone! We are really sorry
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    for the delay, but as you know this is the
    Chaos Communication Congress. Chaos is
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    part of the show. In any case, we are
    ready to start our first speaker for the
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    day. This is a talk that I'm personally
    very excited about. Very interesting in my
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    opinion. Our first speaker is an
    architect. He's a professor of spatial and
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    visual cultures, and the director of a
    forensic architecture at Goldsmiths
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    University in London. Please give a big
    round of applause to Eyal Weizman.
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    applause
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    microphone off, inaudible
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    Eyal Weizman: excited to be here. My first
    congress, atually, and I'm sure it's gonna
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    bring good luck. The fact that we had some
    technical equipment problem right now. I'm
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    running in London something that is better
    described as a counter forensic agency, as
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    a civil society counter forensic agency.
    There's no better way to explain what
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    counter forensics is, a certain turning
    around, repurposing of the forensic gaze
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    towards the state, then looking at a
    series of issues where security forces or
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    the police are the perpetrator. So, what
    I'm going to show you today, very fast,
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    are three cases. The first one in Israel,
    second one in Germany, third one in Mexico.
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    Each one involves violence or alleged
    violence by the police and each one also
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    involves a different mode of research and
    technique, in doing so. First one is a
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    place where I come from, Israel Palestine,
    and the issue is really the force eviction
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    of Bedouin communities that have been
    living in the north part of the Naqab or
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    Negev desert in the south of Israel, for
    generations now declared by the state to
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    be illegally occupying those places and are
    subject to continuous raids by which the
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    police... Oops, you don't see the slides.
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    Slides? Slide? Guys? Okay. Sorry, one second.
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    Inaudible
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    laughter
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    All right, so I'll tell you a
    little bit more about forensic
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    architecture until until they do so.
    Basically what we are is a group of
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    architects, filmmakers, some investigative
    journalists, coders and we join together
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    to create a forensic agency.
    It was a kind of an experiment that we
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    started around 2010, because we felt that
    both,technological and political changes
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    enabled and demanded a form of counter
    forensics that we are now practicing.
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    Initially, we were working in conflict
    zones. Towards, or starting, really, in
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    this millennium, in the year 2000, war
    became an urban phenomena. Almost all
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    conflicts that we were looking at took
    place in cities, in and amongst buildings.
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    So in a very straightforward way, just
    like a medical doctor, a physician can
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    turn into a pathologist, we architects,
    we're turning the tools of our trade,
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    understanding of building, a way of
    interpreting its materiality, its
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    physicality into an evidentiary technique.
    So initially, what we were doing was a
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    kind of archaeology. Archaeology of the
    very recent past, or archaeology of the
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    present - this is a term by Gilles
    Deleuze - and looking at piles of ruin,
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    of a building that was destroyed in a bomb
    or in a firefight, and trying to read from
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    the disposition of the rubble something
    about what has taken place within
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    and around it. So it started as a kind of
    an archaeological practice. But then
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    again, very often, when we start working in
    conflict zones, and the first projects we
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    had were in Palestine and then in... we
    were working to uncover drone warfare in
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    the Pakistan-Afghanistan frontier, we
    realized very fast...
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    Technician: Sorry, could you... inaudible
    Eyal: Should I what?
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    Technician: The presentation on that stick
    so you can use this laptop.
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    E: Oh, this gonna take 20 minutes to pass
    them.
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    T: Really?
    E: Yeah.
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    I mean, because I started to put it on a stick,
    and... Listen, can you connect this
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    I'm gonna do something else...
    Technician: This is connected. Can you...
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    E: If you can get an image from this, I'm
    just gonna run things from my website.
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    So, as I said, the first level of our work was
    archaeological. Material archaeology,
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    trying to uncover what has taken place,
    where people were. But increasingly, we
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    realized that we cannot really get to the
    places where it was most important for us
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    to research. That states, when they
    violate human rights, or...
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    T: If you want, you can...
    E: Okay. Thank you very much.
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    Often also do two things: They close the
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    area to any investigator, any human
    right group, or anyone that works to
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    collect evidence against them. And they
    limit the ability of signal to come out of
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    them. This is actually what happened in
    2008, 2009 in Gaza. Very little signal was
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    coming out of Gaza under attack by Israeli
    forces and this is what happened when at
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    the beginning of the American drone strike
    campaign in Pakistan Afghanistan, they
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    were effectively limiting it. So what
    we had to do, and this is what you're
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    gonna start seeing, is to undertake
    archeology through looking at media and
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    interpreting, really, the kind of flood of
    social media images that were coming our
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    way.
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    I'm not used to this.
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    Okay.
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    applause
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    Okay, so the first example I would like to
    show you is work we've done with a
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    Palestinian human right organization, Al
    Mezan, and Amnesty in Gaza in 2014. We
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    could not go. We asked for permission to
    go to Gaza at that time. Our access was
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    denied and all we had was about 70
    thousand images, that we have collected
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    during that day and what we had to do,
    really, is tell a story of one day: August
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    1st 2014, morning to evening, which was
    the most violent, and the day where most
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    Palestinian casualties were sustained.
    What we didn't have was the metadata on
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    those clips and images, because of course
    they were harvested either from mainstream
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    or social media and we effectively had to
    develop a technique to look at the bomb
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    clouds themselves to look at them, and
    compose the architecture of the bomb cloud
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    plumes in order to see and collect images
    that refer to the same explosion and, back
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    from there, to determine the time and place
    of each one of those bombs. So those bomb
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    clouds were for us the metadata, they
    were kind of like physical metadata. Here
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    is how we geolocate one of the images
    that we found - or one of the clips that we
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    found - by comparing points on a
    perspective of the video with what we see on a
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    satellite image, located the place where
    the photographer was. And by cross-
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    referencing three of those, of the same
    cloud, we managed to find the precise
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    place where the bomb has finally landed.
    So, this is effectively a way in which you
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    can reconstruct metadata, a time space
    location from what we call physical
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    clocks, that is to say, analog things that
    exist within the image itself.
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    However, we can see other things on this
    photograph, too. If we look at one of
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    those images, here, we have the
    videographer capturing two shadow lines in
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    this photograph. Just a second before
    closing off the camera, and what we need
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    to do is to try to establish the time. If
    we can establish the time on that image,
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    and we know that form of the cloud is that
    time, we can triangulate on and establish
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    the times of other videos, and then move
    further. So, effectively by building a 3D
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    model and running a Sun simulation on it,
    we could arrive at a very precise,
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    within five minutes margin of error, time
    on that image. And now we know where this
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    image, where this video was taken and what
    time it is taken in. There is, however,
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    another in the satellite image that we
    obtained - this is a kind of a very rare
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    occasion. We saw an actual bomb on the
    satellite image. Again, this is something...
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    the satellite image has metadata. And we
    started looking, started hunting for that
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    bomb in images from the ground. Again, if
    we could locate that what we see in the
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    top view on from a ground view, we will be
    able to to start establishing times on the
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    sequence. As you see, this sequence has
    metadata, but the metadata is wrongly set
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    at around midnight. So we compose that
    kind of panorama of the bomb
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    clouds off of the city around that time
    and we could identify that cloud. This is
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    the cloud in side view, this is it in top
    view. We could find a precise location, a
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    precise time, and then by confirming that
    is actually the same, we can move back and
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    correct the digital metadata. So this is
    all techniques of actually establishing
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    the very basic foundational stone of
    research time-space relations, between
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    events.
    Here, for example, we could see in two
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    different corners of the web we find those
    images. We can verify it's the same camera
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    by seeing the same scratch on the lens.
    Correct the metadata, establish the time
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    difference between them and now, here
    again, the same camera man with the same
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    scratch on the lens. And now we can
    compose a timeline of bombs during that
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    day. And after that, of course these kind
    of cloud atlases are a technique that was
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    used by artists and by amateur
    meteorologists all the way from the 19th
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    century on. What we did is creating that
    kind of archive of clouds, but here what
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    you see is that we were able to convert
    them to information on the ground, and
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    then invert the image move from cloud to
    city. What you see here, the model, is
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    something that we call the architectural
    image complex. Architectural models are
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    the only ways to make sense and to place
    those multiple images in space-time, so
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    that we can navigate rather than edit
    them. We can navigate between one image
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    and the other. What you've seen here is
    that on one of the images, looking so
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    carefully at the bomb cloud, we start
    seeing two images in mid-fall. We found
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    the craters, where they have landed. And,
    we could, for lawyers calculate the kind
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    of like the destruction radius there. You
    would see now, again those horrific thing
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    to see a bomb just split seconds before it
    land on the ground and would kill 16
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    palestinian, an entire family. But the
    lawyers asked for the size of that bomb,
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    in order to bring in a kind of a supply
    chain action on it. When we see that on
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    the photo frame we can locate the
    photo frame within the model of the city
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    and actually measure those bombs in a very
    precise, with a very small under ten
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    percent margin of error and then go to the
    catalog and find exactly which bomb it was
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    that landed, and that would enable
    activists to go after the manufacturer,
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    after the policy of doing that.
    So again, here we are moving within the
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    model, with thermodynamic specialists we
    look at the way the cloud is changing, in
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    order to really realize we're looking at
    the same clouds. We're picking up now
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    images and events within the city as
    clouds being the anchors of the
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    reconstruction and that project has in
    fact gone later, as evidence was
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    submitted to the ICC, to the International
    Criminal Court and was used in various
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    other form of activism on the ground. And,
    to certain extent, might have contributed
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    to a change of policy by the IDF, about
    the honeybell directives, that is
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    something that they've enacted during that
    day. And the bomb cloud were also
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    something that was very important, were also
    like memory anchors. The witnesses on the
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    ground remembered and could sequence their
    movement according to those bomb clouds.
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    So think about an element that combines
    and ties together material evidence, media
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    evidence and memory evidence at the same
    time. So that's, I don't even, I'm
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    basically just improvising. It's not at
    all the lecture I wanted to show you
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    before. Here is a very recent
    investigation we've undertaken in
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    Cameroon, and were together again with
    Amnesty International we were able to
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    expose a secret detention center run
    by the Cameroonian military where
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    Boko Haram prisoners or suspects of Boko
    Haram prisoners were actually tortured. We
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    had access to people in Cameroonian
    prisons. It is very rare occasion, we were
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    able to actually send questions back and
    forth and reconstruct the architecture of
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    the prison and the conditions of
    incarceration.
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    But what became very important through the
    questions that we continuously posed and
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    continuously received from those suspects
    is that they've actually seen in, at the
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    beginning we did not know if this was
    correct or not, they were obviously seeing
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    people being tortured and killed outside
    of the detention center, but at some point
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    they also confirmed seeing something
    different: American soldiers that were
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    present
    on the site.
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    Now, as you know the US has claimed that
    it has stopped rendition, and stopped
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    involvement in torture, but this is
    something that we started very closely
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    digging in to see whether we could find
    any traces of US soldiers and other
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    European militaries involved within that,
    sort of, incarceration and torture of Boko
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    Haram suspect. First thing that we saw,
    that we noticed was, and sometimes traces
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    are left in the most kind of unexpected of
    places. A contract, an American contract
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    to connect that base to the Internet. The
    minute that we saw that, that was put on
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    the public domain we started following on
    Facebook and seeing some American soldiers
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    actually forgot to disconnect the location
    tagging and you know they're kind of like
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    holiday photographs. Could be very easily
    located onto the base.
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    Again we've built a model of the base, in
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    order to confirm, precisely, where each
    one of the photograph was taken and we can
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    see that they had access to the entire
    base. Again, a base where people are
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    executed, tortured, etc. And then tracked
    the unit, and as you see the site is
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    actually under construction. Something
    that we could not believe seeing was
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    American soldiers training the unit that
    is doing those atrocities and here in this
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    almost comical film they train them in
    night-vision equipment by playing
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    football. So they all play football in the
    dark with night vision and you could see
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    that the involvement is very
    direct. So that the exposure of that base
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    led to sort of a full American, at the
    beginning denial, always denial, then
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    admission, then a full investigation by
    the US about these allegations.
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    Another important case that we were
    involved with recently is the Ayotzinapa
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    case. I think maybe many of you know the
    story of the 43 students, Mexican
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    students, that were forcefully disappeared
    in Mexico. We were asked by the parents,
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    and by other civil society group to
    in fact.. investigate that.
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    It's one of the biggest controversies in
    Mexico right now, still, although it's
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    three years since the disappearance.
    Students involved in very grassroot, left-
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    wing politics enter the Intercity that was
    very much involved in narcos trade and
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    were destroyed by the police, the military
    and organized crime. What we've done here
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    is not really collect new evidence, but
    look at thousands and thousands of
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    existing reports and wanting in fact to
    data mine them. They were, you know,
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    hundreds and thousands of documents and
    the only way to to make sense of them was
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    actually to look at relations between
    different events in space-time, the
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    relations between all phone calls,
    photographs, movements of cars and gunshot
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    started creating a very different picture,
    than the Mexican government has actually
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    was willing to admit and that is that
    there was some local gang or local sort of
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    organized crime group that was in charge
    of these actions. So, we created a
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    platform in which we placed every named
    actor in space-time, a timeline in all the
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    communications so that we could start
    seeing relation between evidence. Often
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    it's not a bit of evidence in itself, it's
    not the casing or a gunshot that matters,
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    but actually patterns, coordinations and
    patterns of escalations and other things
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    that actually expose what was going on and
    we could show really a direct involvement
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    between three different police forces and
    the military and organized crime at the
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    same time, the location of all CCTV cameras
    that were there and removed, and somehow
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    the relationship between phone calls and
    attacks became most clear indication of
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    command and control. That these events were
    actually coordinated by the police.
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    Here we are analyzing CCTV cameras and
    what they would have seen. Of course the
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    state, immediately after the event erased
    every CCTV camera that existed, that was
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    available in the city and they said or
    they didn't show anything. We could show
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    exactly what they would have shown at that
    moment.
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    Another element to this is, we
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    go... so this is the platform, you can
    actually go and explore it yourself rather
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    than as sort of like a work with images.
    As I said, this is a work with data. In
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    one of the most important drawing and in
    fact became one of the very influential
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    drawing during that, in our investigation,
    was a kind of a working drawing that we
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    kept for ourselves, because we had to keep
    track of where every agent was. What was
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    the relationship between them, and also
    the multiple narratives that were told. So
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    we kind of kept a very very long drawing
    at the office, plotting the movement of
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    different actors, until at some point we
    realize that what we were drawing, that
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    working drawing became in fact an image of
    disappearance.
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    Because disappearance is not about,
    enforced disappearance of people, is not
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    only about grabbing people, killing them
    and hiding the bodies. Disappearance is
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    also an attack on evidence. It is the
    continuous withdrawal and destruction of
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    evidence. It is the introduction of false
    narratives and subterfuge. So
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    disappearance is in fact a narrative form
    in itself and so here that drawing we
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    could actually kind of like show how the
    state narrative, here in black, I'm not
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    going to go exactly into what everything
    means because we lost a lot of time in
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    this presentation, but these are the
    movement of the students according to the
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    state narrative. A state narrative that is
    still officially holding, although it's
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    being currently revised in response to
    many things, but including also our
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    investigation. And now you would see that
    the victim, the survivor's narrative
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    completely different. Starts... they enter the
    city at a completely different time. They
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    move through it and the divergence
    between the black and the red narrative in
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    fact is the space of denial and
    disappearance. Disappearance as an ongoing
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    crime, disappearance as a crime on
    narrative etc. I'm gonna skip forward,
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    just that you could see how the drawing is
    built up with another here on top the
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    purple images are, the purple lines,
    those of the narcos and, so, each one
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    tells a different story, and the multiple
    stories are in fact that kind of space of
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    disappearance. Here you would see these
    are movements of police, throughout the
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    city and you would see how that police
    force is precisely next to the students
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    all throughout the attack and moving along
    with them. In fact, what we have finally
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    done - and this is now green, is the
    military, etc - is built that we knew about
  • 28:16 - 28:31

    the, you know, who is it ...
  • 28:38 - 28:40

    So this is the complete drawing that we've
  • 28:40 - 28:48
    actually printed as an enormous mural. In
    Mexico, murals are kind of sites of
  • 28:48 - 28:55
    political pedagogy, you can think about
    Diego Rivera's great murals in Mexico, in
  • 28:55 - 28:59
    the US, where their narratives about the
    history of the state and about the
  • 28:59 - 29:04
    struggle of the working class. In a
    certain sense, we thought that this is a
  • 29:04 - 29:13
    kind of a mural of the 21st century, feel
    like a kind of a data mural, that is
  • 29:13 - 29:18
    complicated to read but its complication
    is in fact the image of disappearance.
  • 29:18 - 29:23
    These, the entangled line and
    interruptions within it, is what makes
  • 29:23 - 29:32
    that space.. hold on...
  • 29:35 - 29:41
    exhibition... I want
    to show you the image of that mural in the
  • 29:41 - 29:50
    space, and it has become, ever since, a
    kind of a site of political assembly and
  • 29:50 - 30:00
    political activism, of protest, for the
    families and others, and it kind of shows
  • 30:00 - 30:09
    for us the use of cultural and art spaces
    in the context of our work. Index is another
  • 30:09 - 30:14
    problem in counter forensic. Very often
    our evidence cannot enter the very
  • 30:14 - 30:22
    official spaces of state justice, they
    cannot. It's very rare that one can
  • 30:22 - 30:30
    actually take the state, challenge the
    state legally in its own institutions.
  • 30:30 - 30:37
    What we need to establish are alternative
    forums, and for us these could be public
  • 30:37 - 30:43
    spaces, exhibitions, etc. I think some of
    you might know about the work that we've
  • 30:43 - 30:52
    done on the NSU, on the Temme, or the
    Verfassungsschutz agent, that was suspected
  • 30:52 - 30:56
    to be present in an internet cafe in
    Kassel during the time of a racist
  • 30:56 - 31:05
    killing, and us showing that he was there.
    He could not have missed this event, that
  • 31:05 - 31:09
    was presented in Documenta, and Documenta
    offered for us another very interesting
  • 31:09 - 31:17
    forum. The fact it was shown there
    has in fact mobilized the process,
  • 31:17 - 31:25
    including in a German federal
    investigation, and also in a Hessen
  • 31:25 - 31:32
    parliamentary investigation, where
    different delegations from
  • 31:32 - 31:38
    this parliamentary investigation came to
    Documenta to see it. And finally, that work
  • 31:38 - 31:46
    was presented to Temme. He was forced to
    look at it and to comment upon it.
  • 31:46 - 31:52
    I think, I should probably leave some time
    to question. I'm sorry about the chaotic
  • 31:52 - 31:58
    presentation, but I guess this is the
    nature of this event, so I'm happy to have
  • 31:58 - 32:02
    had at least a chance to present to you
    some work. Thanks for listening.
  • 32:02 - 32:14
    Applause
  • 32:14 - 32:17
    Herald: So, thank you all for a very
    interesting talk, despite of the
  • 32:17 - 32:22
    difficulties. If you have any questions,
    then there are four microphones, here in
  • 32:22 - 32:27
    the center aisle and two on the side. And
    you can line up and ask your questions,
  • 32:27 - 32:32
    and first question microphone number one.
    Microphone 1: How much has any official
  • 32:32 - 32:38
    state tried to shut down your
    investigations, or...
  • 32:39 - 32:48
    Eyal: Well, this is... shutdown is a
    complicated term. First of all,
  • 32:48 - 32:53
    we face interruptions initially in not
    being allowed access to sites. And this is
  • 32:53 - 33:00
    very much the question in the West Bank
    and Gaza. Our investigators, when they
  • 33:00 - 33:06
    land in Tel Aviv Airport, sometimes are
    interrogated, sometimes they're turned around.
  • 33:06 - 33:13
    Nothing of that is comparable to what the
    Israeli state would have done if these
  • 33:13 - 33:20
    were Palestinians trying to do the same
    thing, so to a certain extent me being an
  • 33:20 - 33:28
    Israeli Jew, I'm privileged by the state.
    And the attempt is to use those privileges
  • 33:28 - 33:38
    to undo those privileges to a certain
    extent. We continuously had interruptions
  • 33:38 - 33:44
    from the FBI, for example, when we did the
    white phosphorus research, that included
  • 33:44 - 33:52
    work on their attacking Fallujah, Iraq, with
    white phosphorus. We had some of our
  • 33:52 - 33:59
    collaborators in the US's home being
    raided. We have, you know,
  • 33:59 - 34:07
    been trolled and threatened.
    But, it's kind of a continuous sort of
  • 34:07 - 34:15
    dance of us being to, kind of protect our
    staff, protect our data, and attempt to
  • 34:15 - 34:21
    penetrate it. Attempts to smear us on a
    public domain, and feel very little
  • 34:21 - 34:24
    victories sometimes.
  • 34:26 - 34:28
    Herald: Microphone 4.
  • 34:28 - 34:33
    4: Thank you very much for your talk. Two
    part question here, the first one is about
  • 34:33 - 34:37
    the framework. Have you developed it
    special for this case, do you have it
  • 34:37 - 34:43
    available, if you build new ones for each
    research, and the second part is: How
  • 34:43 - 34:49
    do you sustain yourself financially.
    Eyal: Actually, it's the same question,
  • 34:49 - 34:54
    because our aim is to develop new
    evidentiary techniques, so we kind of
  • 34:54 - 34:59
    never do the same investigation twice or
    we never use the same methodologies twice.
  • 34:59 - 35:06
    What we do, after we develop any software,
    is that we put it on the public domain, we
  • 35:06 - 35:13
    put it as an open source code. And we, or
    if it is kind of techniques of more
  • 35:13 - 35:18
    architectural or editing image based
    techniques, we have academies, we teach
  • 35:18 - 35:24
    activists how to do it, so we try, whenever
    we work with partners on the ground, to
  • 35:24 - 35:31
    leave capacity behind us. And that is also
    the reason... or what enables this to us is
  • 35:31 - 35:37
    that we are sustained on research grants,
    rather than only on commissions.
  • 35:37 - 35:42
    Although, you know, I mean, if a
    prosecutor, human right group, or any other
  • 35:42 - 35:48
    civil society group would like to
    commission us, we would... they would pay
  • 35:48 - 35:53
    for part of the investigation, but the
    large part of it is actually research
  • 35:53 - 36:01
    grants that translated into open source
    stuff, and the investigations are being
  • 36:01 - 36:04
    put in the public domain. It's kind of, when
    you look at our videos, they're a little
  • 36:04 - 36:08
    bit like cooking programs, because they
    both tell you what we find, and they tell
  • 36:08 - 36:13
    you exactly how to do it. It's kind of,
    take you step-by-step, this is what you do
  • 36:13 - 36:18
    here, then that, then this, etc.
  • 36:18 - 36:20
    Herald: Microphone 4
  • 36:20 - 36:24
    4: Thank you so much for your work on
    this. My question is like, how would any
  • 36:24 - 36:30
    of us be able to get involved in this,
    support you in one way or another.
  • 36:30 - 36:39
    Eyal: We, in fact, we are now about 15
    architects, coders, and filmmakers and we
  • 36:39 - 36:45
    are recruiting because we're growing. I
    will stay here for the day, so anyone that
  • 36:45 - 36:51
    wants to come and work with us in London
    or remotely, I'll be delighted to speak to
  • 36:51 - 36:56
    you.
    Herald: Microphone 4
  • 36:59 - 37:05
    4: I have a question about which tools,
    which techniques and tools do you use to
  • 37:05 - 37:12
    perform the 3D reconstruction, and if you
    have partnered with any kind of company
  • 37:12 - 37:18
    that already has inaudible and already
    does inaudible 3D inaudible as a
  • 37:18 - 37:22
    baseline.
    Eyal: We started doing now
  • 37:22 - 37:30
    photogrammetry, as 3D reconstruction
    from existing open source images. So
  • 37:30 - 37:36
    imagine, you know, a place in Syria, let's
    say, that has been photographed or video-ed
  • 37:36 - 37:41
    by many users. We are able
    to reconstruct it. In fact this is one of
  • 37:41 - 37:46
    the techniques we use in order to identify
    the gas attack on Khan Sheikhun in
  • 37:46 - 37:52
    Syria by the regime forces. Reconstructing
    precisely, to the millimeter, the shape of
  • 37:52 - 37:59
    the crater. And we were able to reconstruct
    from it the level of explosives etc, and
  • 37:59 - 38:06
    that they were fitting only that
    particular rocket. We don't really work
  • 38:06 - 38:13
    together with companies, we try to take
    existing softwares and kind of
  • 38:13 - 38:20
    adjust them to our aim. But
    initially, what I want to leave you with, is
  • 38:20 - 38:23
    the question of why architecture is really
  • 38:23 - 38:30
    important here. In a situation when you
    don't have only like two images of the
  • 38:30 - 38:37
    scene, let's say police brutality or an
    attack on a city etc, but you have 70,000
  • 38:37 - 38:42
    and you need to cross-reference them and
    you need to place them within a space, the
  • 38:42 - 38:49
    only way to do it is in architectural
    models. Architecture is like the optical
  • 38:49 - 38:55
    device that allows us to sync up and
    locate, you know, those cameras that are
  • 38:55 - 39:02
    in space and moving in space. So, it is
    really the necessity of work
  • 39:02 - 39:11
    of architects, filmmakers, and coders is
    fundamental, because space replaces the
  • 39:11 - 39:17
    kind of modernist montage as a relation to
    images. Montage is the edits in film, that
  • 39:17 - 39:22
    is kind of, you know, the basic of cinema,
    of political cinema, the dialectic montage,
  • 39:22 - 39:25
    if you like. You splice film and put it
    together.
  • 39:25 - 39:31
    That makes no sense for us, because we
    need to move within space, pick up one
  • 39:31 - 39:36
    film, not to cut it, we never cut the
    films that we have, we just leave them
  • 39:36 - 39:41
    within the model in the full duration, but
    the investigator can move and navigate in
  • 39:41 - 39:47
    space and time between them, and as I
    showed you in a Mexico case, you know,
  • 39:47 - 39:54
    these are like tens and tens of thousands
    of data points that create kind of
  • 39:54 - 40:00
    intersections, between data image and
    architecture, where the story starts
  • 40:00 - 40:12
    to unfold at all. So yeah.
    Herald: More questions. Microphone 3.
  • 40:12 - 40:18
    3: When you publish the videos and the time
    and place from which they were taken,
  • 40:18 - 40:23
    how do you ensure that you're not putting in
    danger the people who took the video.
  • 40:23 - 40:29
    Eyal: Yeah, this is a really good
    question. We..., the work to sync up those
  • 40:29 - 40:36
    70,000 images from Gaza, where... took us
    a year. Think about it, a year... we're
  • 40:36 - 40:42
    working a year on one day. That's about the
    right kind of ratio in forensic time that
  • 40:42 - 40:48
    we are operating within it. What
    protects people during war, during when
  • 40:48 - 40:56
    they will do it, we'll never place their
    location, but months after the conflict it
  • 40:56 - 41:04
    was deemed by our partners in Palestine
    and by our partners in Amnesty, that this
  • 41:04 - 41:12
    is safe to do without going back to each
    source and in fact asking them. We would
  • 41:12 - 41:17
    never do it in real time, though.
    Herald: Microphone 4
  • 41:17 - 41:27
    4: Yes, the work you do strikes me as very
    similar to what bellingcat do, so can you
  • 41:27 - 41:30
    comment on how forensic architecture
    compares to bellingcat?
  • 41:30 - 41:33
    Eyal: No, we work a lot with bellingcat
    and Elliot, I mean some some of our
  • 41:33 - 41:43
    projects are together, I guess that
    our... the difference is not, we engage
  • 41:43 - 41:53
    more in sort of big environment and kind
    of like data analysis, from many sort of
  • 41:53 - 41:59
    data points, where architecture, or
    architectural models, are kind of the arena
  • 41:59 - 42:05
    that holds and cross-reference all those
    images together. The overlap in our work,
  • 42:05 - 42:10
    really, is a kind of image identification:
    What do we see, where the image is located
  • 42:10 - 42:23
    etc, and on these issues we work with them
    together. We tend to work more against
  • 42:23 - 42:33
    states', western states', militaries, holding
    them to account, we feel, is that these
  • 42:33 - 42:39
    techniques are actually much more useful
    directed at the British, American, Israeli
  • 42:39 - 42:48
    militaries and that we are able also to
    draw responses that are effective in these
  • 42:48 - 42:55
    fields and I guess bellingcat has
    slightly different sort of field in which
  • 42:55 - 42:59
    they work.
    Herald: Okay, I think with that, that
  • 42:59 - 43:02
    would be our last question. So again, a
    big round of applause to Eyal for a great
  • 43:02 - 43:03
    talk.
    Eyal: Thank you.
  • 43:03 - 43:06
    Herald: Thank you very much.
  • 43:06 - 43:13
    Applause
  • 43:13 - 43:18
    34c3 outro
  • 43:18 - 43:35
    subtitles created by c3subtitles.de
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Title:
34C3 - Forensic Architecture
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Video Language:
English
Duration:
43:35

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