[Script Info]
Title: 
[Events]
Format: Layer, Start, End, Style, Name, MarginL, MarginR, MarginV, Effect, Text
Dialogue: 0,0:00:00.00,0:00:15.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,{\i1}34c3 intro{\i0}
Dialogue: 0,0:00:15.02,0:00:19.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Herald: Okay, so again, once again: Good\Nmorning to everyone! We are really sorry
Dialogue: 0,0:00:19.45,0:00:23.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for the delay, but as you know this is the\NChaos Communication Congress. Chaos is
Dialogue: 0,0:00:23.94,0:00:28.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,part of the show. In any case, we are\Nready to start our first speaker for the
Dialogue: 0,0:00:28.93,0:00:33.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,day. This is a talk that I'm personally\Nvery excited about. Very interesting in my
Dialogue: 0,0:00:33.27,0:00:38.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,opinion. Our first speaker is an\Narchitect. He's a professor of spatial and
Dialogue: 0,0:00:38.51,0:00:43.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,visual cultures, and the director of a\Nforensic architecture at Goldsmiths
Dialogue: 0,0:00:43.65,0:00:48.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,University in London. Please give a big\Nround of applause to Eyal Weizman.
Dialogue: 0,0:00:48.53,0:00:51.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,{\i1}applause{\i0}
Dialogue: 0,0:00:51.14,0:00:58.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,{\i1}microphone off, inaudible{\i0}\N
Dialogue: 0,0:00:58.10,0:01:03.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Eyal Weizman: excited to be here. My first\Ncongress, atually, and I'm sure it's gonna
Dialogue: 0,0:01:03.70,0:01:10.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,bring good luck. The fact that we had some\Ntechnical equipment problem right now. I'm
Dialogue: 0,0:01:10.03,0:01:15.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,running in London something that is better\Ndescribed as a counter forensic agency, as
Dialogue: 0,0:01:15.85,0:01:20.15,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a civil society counter forensic agency.\NThere's no better way to explain what
Dialogue: 0,0:01:20.15,0:01:27.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,counter forensics is, a certain turning\Naround, repurposing of the forensic gaze
Dialogue: 0,0:01:27.11,0:01:34.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,towards the state, then looking at a\Nseries of issues where security forces or
Dialogue: 0,0:01:34.04,0:01:39.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the police are the perpetrator. So, what\NI'm going to show you today, very fast,
Dialogue: 0,0:01:39.53,0:01:44.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,are three cases. The first one in Israel,\Nsecond one in Germany, third one in Mexico.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:44.58,0:01:51.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Each one involves violence or alleged\Nviolence by the police and each one also
Dialogue: 0,0:01:51.61,0:01:59.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,involves a different mode of research and\Ntechnique, in doing so. First one is a
Dialogue: 0,0:01:59.10,0:02:07.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,place where I come from, Israel Palestine,\Nand the issue is really the force eviction
Dialogue: 0,0:02:07.31,0:02:13.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of Bedouin communities that have been\Nliving in the north part of the Naqab or
Dialogue: 0,0:02:13.92,0:02:21.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Negev desert in the south of Israel, for\Ngenerations now declared by the state to
Dialogue: 0,0:02:21.54,0:02:28.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,be illegally occupying those places and are\Nsubject to continuous raids by which the
Dialogue: 0,0:02:28.77,0:02:32.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,police... Oops, you don't see the slides.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:32.57,0:02:40.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Slides? Slide? Guys? Okay. Sorry, one second.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:40.07,0:02:43.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,{\i1}Inaudible{\i0}
Dialogue: 0,0:02:43.05,0:02:45.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,{\i1}laughter{\i0}
Dialogue: 0,0:02:45.45,0:02:48.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,All right, so I'll tell you a\Nlittle bit more about forensic
Dialogue: 0,0:02:48.18,0:02:54.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,architecture until until they do so.\NBasically what we are is a group of
Dialogue: 0,0:02:54.93,0:03:03.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,architects, filmmakers, some investigative\Njournalists, coders and we join together
Dialogue: 0,0:03:03.87,0:03:10.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to create a forensic agency.\NIt was a kind of an experiment that we
Dialogue: 0,0:03:10.83,0:03:23.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,started around 2010, because we felt that\Nboth,technological and political changes
Dialogue: 0,0:03:23.77,0:03:30.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,enabled and demanded a form of counter\Nforensics that we are now practicing.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:30.53,0:03:39.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Initially, we were working in conflict\Nzones. Towards, or starting, really, in
Dialogue: 0,0:03:39.23,0:03:45.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,this millennium, in the year 2000, war\Nbecame an urban phenomena. Almost all
Dialogue: 0,0:03:45.82,0:03:52.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,conflicts that we were looking at took\Nplace in cities, in and amongst buildings.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:52.14,0:03:58.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So in a very straightforward way, just\Nlike a medical doctor, a physician can
Dialogue: 0,0:03:58.93,0:04:04.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,turn into a pathologist, we architects,\Nwe're turning the tools of our trade,
Dialogue: 0,0:04:04.80,0:04:09.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,understanding of building, a way of\Ninterpreting its materiality, its
Dialogue: 0,0:04:09.22,0:04:15.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,physicality into an evidentiary technique.\NSo initially, what we were doing was a
Dialogue: 0,0:04:15.38,0:04:22.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,kind of archaeology. Archaeology of the\Nvery recent past, or archaeology of the
Dialogue: 0,0:04:22.20,0:04:31.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,present - this is a term by Gilles\NDeleuze - and looking at piles of ruin,
Dialogue: 0,0:04:31.75,0:04:37.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of a building that was destroyed in a bomb\Nor in a firefight, and trying to read from
Dialogue: 0,0:04:37.08,0:04:47.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the disposition of the rubble something\Nabout what has taken place within
Dialogue: 0,0:04:47.06,0:04:55.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and around it. So it started as a kind of\Nan archaeological practice. But then
Dialogue: 0,0:04:55.90,0:05:02.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,again, very often, when we start working in\Nconflict zones, and the first projects we
Dialogue: 0,0:05:02.29,0:05:11.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,had were in Palestine and then in... we\Nwere working to uncover drone warfare in
Dialogue: 0,0:05:11.65,0:05:16.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the Pakistan-Afghanistan frontier, we\Nrealized very fast...
Dialogue: 0,0:05:17.53,0:05:20.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Technician: Sorry, could you... {\i1}inaudible{\i0}\NEyal: Should I what?
Dialogue: 0,0:05:20.58,0:05:24.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Technician: The presentation on that stick\Nso you can use this laptop.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:24.16,0:05:27.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,E: Oh, this gonna take 20 minutes to pass\Nthem.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:27.19,0:05:29.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,T: Really?\NE: Yeah.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:29.69,0:05:37.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I mean, because I started to put it on a stick,\Nand... Listen, can you connect this
Dialogue: 0,0:05:37.84,0:05:41.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I'm gonna do something else...\NTechnician: This is connected. Can you...
Dialogue: 0,0:05:41.42,0:05:46.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,E: If you can get an image from this, I'm\Njust gonna run things from my website.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:51.09,0:05:57.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, as I said, the first level of our work was\Narchaeological. Material archaeology,
Dialogue: 0,0:05:57.85,0:06:03.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,trying to uncover what has taken place,\Nwhere people were. But increasingly, we
Dialogue: 0,0:06:03.04,0:06:09.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,realized that we cannot really get to the\Nplaces where it was most important for us
Dialogue: 0,0:06:09.51,0:06:17.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to research. That states, when they\Nviolate human rights, or...
Dialogue: 0,0:06:18.73,0:06:23.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,T: If you want, you can...\NE: Okay. Thank you very much.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:23.24,0:06:26.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Often also do two things: They close the
Dialogue: 0,0:06:26.55,0:06:35.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,area to any investigator, any human\Nright group, or anyone that works to
Dialogue: 0,0:06:35.93,0:06:44.15,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,collect evidence against them. And they\Nlimit the ability of signal to come out of
Dialogue: 0,0:06:44.15,0:06:51.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,them. This is actually what happened in\N2008, 2009 in Gaza. Very little signal was
Dialogue: 0,0:06:51.86,0:06:57.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,coming out of Gaza under attack by Israeli\Nforces and this is what happened when at
Dialogue: 0,0:06:57.55,0:07:03.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the beginning of the American drone strike\Ncampaign in Pakistan Afghanistan, they
Dialogue: 0,0:07:03.84,0:07:08.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,were effectively limiting it. So what\Nwe had to do, and this is what you're
Dialogue: 0,0:07:08.06,0:07:14.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,gonna start seeing, is to undertake\Narcheology through looking at media and
Dialogue: 0,0:07:14.90,0:07:21.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,interpreting, really, the kind of flood of\Nsocial media images that were coming our
Dialogue: 0,0:07:21.95,0:07:22.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,way.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:40.35,0:07:45.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I'm not used to this.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:59.46,0:08:01.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Okay.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:21.51,0:08:29.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,{\i1}applause{\i0}
Dialogue: 0,0:08:29.97,0:08:38.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Okay, so the first example I would like to\Nshow you is work we've done with a
Dialogue: 0,0:08:38.76,0:08:45.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Palestinian human right organization, Al\NMezan, and Amnesty in Gaza in 2014. We
Dialogue: 0,0:08:45.19,0:08:50.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,could not go. We asked for permission to\Ngo to Gaza at that time. Our access was
Dialogue: 0,0:08:50.78,0:08:55.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,denied and all we had was about 70\Nthousand images, that we have collected
Dialogue: 0,0:08:55.95,0:09:01.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,during that day and what we had to do,\Nreally, is tell a story of one day: August
Dialogue: 0,0:09:01.04,0:09:10.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,1st 2014, morning to evening, which was\Nthe most violent, and the day where most
Dialogue: 0,0:09:10.17,0:09:15.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Palestinian casualties were sustained.\NWhat we didn't have was the metadata on
Dialogue: 0,0:09:15.99,0:09:21.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,those clips and images, because of course\Nthey were harvested either from mainstream
Dialogue: 0,0:09:21.04,0:09:27.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or social media and we effectively had to\Ndevelop a technique to look at the bomb
Dialogue: 0,0:09:27.96,0:09:32.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,clouds themselves to look at them, and\Ncompose the architecture of the bomb cloud
Dialogue: 0,0:09:32.98,0:09:40.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,plumes in order to see and collect images\Nthat refer to the same explosion and, back
Dialogue: 0,0:09:40.34,0:09:47.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,from there, to determine the time and place\Nof each one of those bombs. So those bomb
Dialogue: 0,0:09:47.03,0:09:51.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,clouds were for us the metadata, they\Nwere kind of like physical metadata. Here
Dialogue: 0,0:09:51.83,0:10:00.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is how we geolocate one of the images\Nthat we found - or one of the clips that we
Dialogue: 0,0:10:00.07,0:10:09.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,found - by comparing points on a\Nperspective of the video with what we see on a
Dialogue: 0,0:10:09.79,0:10:16.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,satellite image, located the place where\Nthe photographer was. And by cross-
Dialogue: 0,0:10:16.76,0:10:21.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,referencing three of those, of the same\Ncloud, we managed to find the precise
Dialogue: 0,0:10:21.86,0:10:29.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,place where the bomb has finally landed.\NSo, this is effectively a way in which you
Dialogue: 0,0:10:29.88,0:10:38.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,can reconstruct metadata, a time space\Nlocation from what we call physical
Dialogue: 0,0:10:38.95,0:10:46.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,clocks, that is to say, analog things that\Nexist within the image itself.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:46.65,0:10:54.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,However, we can see other things on this\Nphotograph, too. If we look at one of
Dialogue: 0,0:10:54.34,0:11:00.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,those images, here, we have the\Nvideographer capturing two shadow lines in
Dialogue: 0,0:11:00.88,0:11:05.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,this photograph. Just a second before\Nclosing off the camera, and what we need
Dialogue: 0,0:11:05.47,0:11:10.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to do is to try to establish the time. If\Nwe can establish the time on that image,
Dialogue: 0,0:11:10.80,0:11:18.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and we know that form of the cloud is that\Ntime, we can triangulate on and establish
Dialogue: 0,0:11:18.02,0:11:23.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the times of other videos, and then move\Nfurther. So, effectively by building a 3D
Dialogue: 0,0:11:23.95,0:11:29.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,model and running a Sun simulation on it,\Nwe could arrive at a very precise,
Dialogue: 0,0:11:29.93,0:11:37.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,within five minutes margin of error, time\Non that image. And now we know where this
Dialogue: 0,0:11:37.17,0:11:46.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,image, where this video was taken and what\Ntime it is taken in. There is, however,
Dialogue: 0,0:11:46.98,0:11:51.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,another in the satellite image that we\Nobtained - this is a kind of a very rare
Dialogue: 0,0:11:51.35,0:11:57.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,occasion. We saw an actual bomb on the\Nsatellite image. Again, this is something...
Dialogue: 0,0:11:57.63,0:12:03.15,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the satellite image has metadata. And we\Nstarted looking, started hunting for that
Dialogue: 0,0:12:03.15,0:12:09.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,bomb in images from the ground. Again, if\Nwe could locate that what we see in the
Dialogue: 0,0:12:09.45,0:12:18.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,top view on from a ground view, we will be\Nable to to start establishing times on the
Dialogue: 0,0:12:18.47,0:12:22.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,sequence. As you see, this sequence has\Nmetadata, but the metadata is wrongly set
Dialogue: 0,0:12:22.79,0:12:30.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,at around midnight. So we compose that\Nkind of panorama of the bomb
Dialogue: 0,0:12:30.63,0:12:39.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,clouds off of the city around that time\Nand we could identify that cloud. This is
Dialogue: 0,0:12:39.47,0:12:47.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the cloud in side view, this is it in top\Nview. We could find a precise location, a
Dialogue: 0,0:12:47.06,0:12:54.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,precise time, and then by confirming that\Nis actually the same, we can move back and
Dialogue: 0,0:12:54.72,0:13:00.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,correct the digital metadata. So this is\Nall techniques of actually establishing
Dialogue: 0,0:13:00.45,0:13:07.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the very basic foundational stone of\Nresearch time-space relations, between
Dialogue: 0,0:13:07.40,0:13:12.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,events.\NHere, for example, we could see in two
Dialogue: 0,0:13:12.51,0:13:17.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,different corners of the web we find those\Nimages. We can verify it's the same camera
Dialogue: 0,0:13:17.60,0:13:24.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,by seeing the same scratch on the lens.\NCorrect the metadata, establish the time
Dialogue: 0,0:13:24.87,0:13:30.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,difference between them and now, here\Nagain, the same camera man with the same
Dialogue: 0,0:13:30.83,0:13:37.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,scratch on the lens. And now we can\Ncompose a timeline of bombs during that
Dialogue: 0,0:13:37.75,0:13:46.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,day. And after that, of course these kind\Nof cloud atlases are a technique that was
Dialogue: 0,0:13:46.62,0:13:52.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,used by artists and by amateur\Nmeteorologists all the way from the 19th
Dialogue: 0,0:13:52.14,0:13:58.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,century on. What we did is creating that\Nkind of archive of clouds, but here what
Dialogue: 0,0:13:58.09,0:14:04.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you see is that we were able to convert\Nthem to information on the ground, and
Dialogue: 0,0:14:04.12,0:14:10.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,then invert the image move from cloud to\Ncity. What you see here, the model, is
Dialogue: 0,0:14:10.73,0:14:15.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,something that we call the architectural\Nimage complex. Architectural models are
Dialogue: 0,0:14:15.56,0:14:23.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the only ways to make sense and to place\Nthose multiple images in space-time, so
Dialogue: 0,0:14:23.95,0:14:29.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that we can navigate rather than edit\Nthem. We can navigate between one image
Dialogue: 0,0:14:29.83,0:14:34.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and the other. What you've seen here is\Nthat on one of the images, looking so
Dialogue: 0,0:14:34.17,0:14:38.100,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,carefully at the bomb cloud, we start\Nseeing two images in mid-fall. We found
Dialogue: 0,0:14:38.100,0:14:46.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the craters, where they have landed. And,\Nwe could, for lawyers calculate the kind
Dialogue: 0,0:14:46.48,0:14:52.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of like the destruction radius there. You\Nwould see now, again those horrific thing
Dialogue: 0,0:14:52.55,0:14:58.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to see a bomb just split seconds before it\Nland on the ground and would kill 16
Dialogue: 0,0:14:58.27,0:15:03.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,palestinian, an entire family. But the\Nlawyers asked for the size of that bomb,
Dialogue: 0,0:15:03.96,0:15:11.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in order to bring in a kind of a supply\Nchain action on it. When we see that on
Dialogue: 0,0:15:11.20,0:15:16.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the photo frame we can locate the\Nphoto frame within the model of the city
Dialogue: 0,0:15:16.37,0:15:22.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and actually measure those bombs in a very\Nprecise, with a very small under ten
Dialogue: 0,0:15:22.45,0:15:27.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,percent margin of error and then go to the\Ncatalog and find exactly which bomb it was
Dialogue: 0,0:15:27.89,0:15:34.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that landed, and that would enable\Nactivists to go after the manufacturer,
Dialogue: 0,0:15:34.30,0:15:40.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,after the policy of doing that.\NSo again, here we are moving within the
Dialogue: 0,0:15:40.41,0:15:46.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,model, with thermodynamic specialists we\Nlook at the way the cloud is changing, in
Dialogue: 0,0:15:46.22,0:15:51.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,order to really realize we're looking at\Nthe same clouds. We're picking up now
Dialogue: 0,0:15:51.61,0:15:57.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,images and events within the city as\Nclouds being the anchors of the
Dialogue: 0,0:15:57.04,0:16:05.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,reconstruction and that project has in\Nfact gone later, as evidence was
Dialogue: 0,0:16:05.52,0:16:09.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,submitted to the ICC, to the International\NCriminal Court and was used in various
Dialogue: 0,0:16:09.48,0:16:18.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,other form of activism on the ground. And,\Nto certain extent, might have contributed
Dialogue: 0,0:16:18.83,0:16:25.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to a change of policy by the IDF, about\Nthe honeybell directives, that is
Dialogue: 0,0:16:25.53,0:16:31.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,something that they've enacted during that\Nday. And the bomb cloud were also
Dialogue: 0,0:16:31.90,0:16:36.01,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,something that was very important, were also\Nlike memory anchors. The witnesses on the
Dialogue: 0,0:16:36.01,0:16:42.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,ground remembered and could sequence their\Nmovement according to those bomb clouds.
Dialogue: 0,0:16:42.13,0:16:47.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So think about an element that combines\Nand ties together material evidence, media
Dialogue: 0,0:16:47.65,0:16:57.01,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,evidence and memory evidence at the same\Ntime. So that's, I don't even, I'm
Dialogue: 0,0:16:57.01,0:17:03.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,basically just improvising. It's not at\Nall the lecture I wanted to show you
Dialogue: 0,0:17:03.38,0:17:10.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,before. Here is a very recent\Ninvestigation we've undertaken in
Dialogue: 0,0:17:10.20,0:17:20.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Cameroon, and were together again with\NAmnesty International we were able to
Dialogue: 0,0:17:20.24,0:17:28.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,expose a secret detention center run\Nby the Cameroonian military where
Dialogue: 0,0:17:28.98,0:17:37.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Boko Haram prisoners or suspects of Boko\NHaram prisoners were actually tortured. We
Dialogue: 0,0:17:37.96,0:17:42.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,had access to people in Cameroonian\Nprisons. It is very rare occasion, we were
Dialogue: 0,0:17:42.30,0:17:51.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,able to actually send questions back and\Nforth and reconstruct the architecture of
Dialogue: 0,0:17:51.29,0:17:53.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the prison and the conditions of\Nincarceration.
Dialogue: 0,0:17:53.63,0:17:57.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But what became very important through the\Nquestions that we continuously posed and
Dialogue: 0,0:17:57.92,0:18:06.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,continuously received from those suspects\Nis that they've actually seen in, at the
Dialogue: 0,0:18:06.74,0:18:12.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,beginning we did not know if this was\Ncorrect or not, they were obviously seeing
Dialogue: 0,0:18:12.26,0:18:18.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,people being tortured and killed outside\Nof the detention center, but at some point
Dialogue: 0,0:18:18.82,0:18:25.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,they also confirmed seeing something\Ndifferent: American soldiers that were
Dialogue: 0,0:18:25.85,0:18:27.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,present\Non the site.
Dialogue: 0,0:18:27.30,0:18:31.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Now, as you know the US has claimed that\Nit has stopped rendition, and stopped
Dialogue: 0,0:18:31.59,0:18:39.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,involvement in torture, but this is\Nsomething that we started very closely
Dialogue: 0,0:18:39.11,0:18:44.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,digging in to see whether we could find\Nany traces of US soldiers and other
Dialogue: 0,0:18:44.40,0:18:53.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,European militaries involved within that,\Nsort of, incarceration and torture of Boko
Dialogue: 0,0:18:53.94,0:19:00.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Haram suspect. First thing that we saw,\Nthat we noticed was, and sometimes traces
Dialogue: 0,0:19:00.94,0:19:08.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,are left in the most kind of unexpected of\Nplaces. A contract, an American contract
Dialogue: 0,0:19:08.55,0:19:13.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to connect that base to the Internet. The\Nminute that we saw that, that was put on
Dialogue: 0,0:19:13.14,0:19:19.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the public domain we started following on\NFacebook and seeing some American soldiers
Dialogue: 0,0:19:19.47,0:19:25.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,actually forgot to disconnect the location\Ntagging and you know they're kind of like
Dialogue: 0,0:19:25.10,0:19:31.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,holiday photographs. Could be very easily\Nlocated onto the base.
Dialogue: 0,0:19:31.64,0:19:33.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Again we've built a model of the base, in
Dialogue: 0,0:19:33.95,0:19:39.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,order to confirm, precisely, where each\None of the photograph was taken and we can
Dialogue: 0,0:19:39.87,0:19:44.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,see that they had access to the entire\Nbase. Again, a base where people are
Dialogue: 0,0:19:44.29,0:19:55.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,executed, tortured, etc. And then tracked\Nthe unit, and as you see the site is
Dialogue: 0,0:19:55.69,0:20:01.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,actually under construction. Something\Nthat we could not believe seeing was
Dialogue: 0,0:20:01.13,0:20:07.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,American soldiers training the unit that\Nis doing those atrocities and here in this
Dialogue: 0,0:20:07.69,0:20:14.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,almost comical film they train them in\Nnight-vision equipment by playing
Dialogue: 0,0:20:14.82,0:20:20.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,football. So they all play football in the\Ndark with night vision and you could see
Dialogue: 0,0:20:20.55,0:20:28.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that the involvement is very\Ndirect. So that the exposure of that base
Dialogue: 0,0:20:28.48,0:20:36.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,led to sort of a full American, at the\Nbeginning denial, always denial, then
Dialogue: 0,0:20:36.29,0:20:47.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,admission, then a full investigation by\Nthe US about these allegations.
Dialogue: 0,0:20:47.90,0:20:55.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Another important case that we were\Ninvolved with recently is the Ayotzinapa
Dialogue: 0,0:20:55.63,0:21:10.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,case. I think maybe many of you know the\Nstory of the 43 students, Mexican
Dialogue: 0,0:21:10.38,0:21:23.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,students, that were forcefully disappeared\Nin Mexico. We were asked by the parents,
Dialogue: 0,0:21:23.09,0:21:31.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and by other civil society group to\Nin fact.. investigate that.
Dialogue: 0,0:21:31.21,0:21:37.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's one of the biggest controversies in\NMexico right now, still, although it's
Dialogue: 0,0:21:37.39,0:21:45.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,three years since the disappearance.\NStudents involved in very grassroot, left-
Dialogue: 0,0:21:45.47,0:21:53.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,wing politics enter the Intercity that was\Nvery much involved in narcos trade and
Dialogue: 0,0:21:53.11,0:21:59.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,were destroyed by the police, the military\Nand organized crime. What we've done here
Dialogue: 0,0:21:59.54,0:22:04.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is not really collect new evidence, but\Nlook at thousands and thousands of
Dialogue: 0,0:22:04.78,0:22:11.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,existing reports and wanting in fact to\Ndata mine them. They were, you know,
Dialogue: 0,0:22:11.85,0:22:16.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,hundreds and thousands of documents and\Nthe only way to to make sense of them was
Dialogue: 0,0:22:16.21,0:22:20.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,actually to look at relations between\Ndifferent events in space-time, the
Dialogue: 0,0:22:20.60,0:22:26.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,relations between all phone calls,\Nphotographs, movements of cars and gunshot
Dialogue: 0,0:22:26.27,0:22:31.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,started creating a very different picture,\Nthan the Mexican government has actually
Dialogue: 0,0:22:31.76,0:22:42.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,was willing to admit and that is that\Nthere was some local gang or local sort of
Dialogue: 0,0:22:42.38,0:22:48.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,organized crime group that was in charge\Nof these actions. So, we created a
Dialogue: 0,0:22:48.38,0:22:56.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,platform in which we placed every named\Nactor in space-time, a timeline in all the
Dialogue: 0,0:22:56.61,0:23:01.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,communications so that we could start\Nseeing relation between evidence. Often
Dialogue: 0,0:23:01.94,0:23:09.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it's not a bit of evidence in itself, it's\Nnot the casing or a gunshot that matters,
Dialogue: 0,0:23:09.49,0:23:18.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but actually patterns, coordinations and\Npatterns of escalations and other things
Dialogue: 0,0:23:18.40,0:23:26.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that actually expose what was going on and\Nwe could show really a direct involvement
Dialogue: 0,0:23:26.20,0:23:35.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,between three different police forces and\Nthe military and organized crime at the
Dialogue: 0,0:23:35.79,0:23:47.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,same time, the location of all CCTV cameras\Nthat were there and removed, and somehow
Dialogue: 0,0:23:47.10,0:23:54.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the relationship between phone calls and\Nattacks became most clear indication of
Dialogue: 0,0:23:54.68,0:24:00.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,command and control. That these events were\Nactually coordinated by the police.
Dialogue: 0,0:24:00.43,0:24:08.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Here we are analyzing CCTV cameras and\Nwhat they would have seen. Of course the
Dialogue: 0,0:24:08.18,0:24:14.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,state, immediately after the event erased\Nevery CCTV camera that existed, that was
Dialogue: 0,0:24:14.00,0:24:18.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,available in the city and they said or\Nthey didn't show anything. We could show
Dialogue: 0,0:24:18.61,0:24:24.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,exactly what they would have shown at that\Nmoment.
Dialogue: 0,0:24:27.50,0:24:32.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Another element to this is, we
Dialogue: 0,0:24:32.22,0:24:38.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,go... so this is the platform, you can\Nactually go and explore it yourself rather
Dialogue: 0,0:24:38.19,0:24:44.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,than as sort of like a work with images.\NAs I said, this is a work with data. In
Dialogue: 0,0:24:44.18,0:24:52.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,one of the most important drawing and in\Nfact became one of the very influential
Dialogue: 0,0:24:52.48,0:24:58.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,drawing during that, in our investigation,\Nwas a kind of a working drawing that we
Dialogue: 0,0:24:58.96,0:25:08.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,kept for ourselves, because we had to keep\Ntrack of where every agent was. What was
Dialogue: 0,0:25:08.60,0:25:14.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the relationship between them, and also\Nthe multiple narratives that were told. So
Dialogue: 0,0:25:14.05,0:25:19.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we kind of kept a very very long drawing\Nat the office, plotting the movement of
Dialogue: 0,0:25:19.61,0:25:25.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,different actors, until at some point we\Nrealize that what we were drawing, that
Dialogue: 0,0:25:25.61,0:25:30.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,working drawing became in fact an image of\Ndisappearance.
Dialogue: 0,0:25:30.54,0:25:34.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Because disappearance is not about,\Nenforced disappearance of people, is not
Dialogue: 0,0:25:34.64,0:25:41.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,only about grabbing people, killing them\Nand hiding the bodies. Disappearance is
Dialogue: 0,0:25:41.36,0:25:47.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,also an attack on evidence. It is the\Ncontinuous withdrawal and destruction of
Dialogue: 0,0:25:47.73,0:25:55.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,evidence. It is the introduction of false\Nnarratives and subterfuge. So
Dialogue: 0,0:25:55.22,0:26:03.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,disappearance is in fact a narrative form\Nin itself and so here that drawing we
Dialogue: 0,0:26:03.76,0:26:10.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,could actually kind of like show how the\Nstate narrative, here in black, I'm not
Dialogue: 0,0:26:10.22,0:26:15.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,going to go exactly into what everything\Nmeans because we lost a lot of time in
Dialogue: 0,0:26:15.04,0:26:22.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,this presentation, but these are the\Nmovement of the students according to the
Dialogue: 0,0:26:22.53,0:26:27.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,state narrative. A state narrative that is\Nstill officially holding, although it's
Dialogue: 0,0:26:27.50,0:26:35.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,being currently revised in response to\Nmany things, but including also our
Dialogue: 0,0:26:35.40,0:26:47.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,investigation. And now you would see that\Nthe victim, the survivor's narrative
Dialogue: 0,0:26:47.05,0:26:54.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,completely different. Starts... they enter the\Ncity at a completely different time. They
Dialogue: 0,0:26:54.07,0:27:06.01,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,move through it and the divergence\Nbetween the black and the red narrative in
Dialogue: 0,0:27:06.01,0:27:12.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,fact is the space of denial and\Ndisappearance. Disappearance as an ongoing
Dialogue: 0,0:27:12.43,0:27:17.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,crime, disappearance as a crime on\Nnarrative etc. I'm gonna skip forward,
Dialogue: 0,0:27:17.44,0:27:25.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,just that you could see how the drawing is\Nbuilt up with another here on top the
Dialogue: 0,0:27:25.92,0:27:36.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,purple images are, the purple lines,\Nthose of the narcos and, so, each one
Dialogue: 0,0:27:36.92,0:27:45.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,tells a different story, and the multiple\Nstories are in fact that kind of space of
Dialogue: 0,0:27:45.16,0:27:49.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,disappearance. Here you would see these\Nare movements of police, throughout the
Dialogue: 0,0:27:49.47,0:27:56.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,city and you would see how that police\Nforce is precisely next to the students
Dialogue: 0,0:27:56.45,0:28:05.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,all throughout the attack and moving along\Nwith them. In fact, what we have finally
Dialogue: 0,0:28:05.35,0:28:16.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,done - and this is now green, is the\Nmilitary, etc - is built that we knew about
Dialogue: 0,0:28:16.39,0:28:31.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,\Nthe, you know, who is it ...
Dialogue: 0,0:28:37.81,0:28:40.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,\NSo this is the complete drawing that we've
Dialogue: 0,0:28:40.06,0:28:48.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,actually printed as an enormous mural. In\NMexico, murals are kind of sites of
Dialogue: 0,0:28:48.26,0:28:54.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,political pedagogy, you can think about\NDiego Rivera's great murals in Mexico, in
Dialogue: 0,0:28:54.66,0:28:58.100,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the US, where their narratives about the\Nhistory of the state and about the
Dialogue: 0,0:28:58.100,0:29:03.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,struggle of the working class. In a\Ncertain sense, we thought that this is a
Dialogue: 0,0:29:03.95,0:29:12.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,kind of a mural of the 21st century, feel\Nlike a kind of a data mural, that is
Dialogue: 0,0:29:12.90,0:29:18.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,complicated to read but its complication\Nis in fact the image of disappearance.
Dialogue: 0,0:29:18.37,0:29:23.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,These, the entangled line and\Ninterruptions within it, is what makes
Dialogue: 0,0:29:23.32,0:29:31.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that space.. hold on...
Dialogue: 0,0:29:34.97,0:29:40.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,exhibition... I want\Nto show you the image of that mural in the
Dialogue: 0,0:29:40.67,0:29:49.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,space, and it has become, ever since, a\Nkind of a site of political assembly and
Dialogue: 0,0:29:49.55,0:30:00.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,political activism, of protest, for the\Nfamilies and others, and it kind of shows
Dialogue: 0,0:30:00.27,0:30:08.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for us the use of cultural and art spaces\Nin the context of our work. Index is another
Dialogue: 0,0:30:08.59,0:30:14.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,problem in counter forensic. Very often\Nour evidence cannot enter the very
Dialogue: 0,0:30:14.04,0:30:22.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,official spaces of state justice, they\Ncannot. It's very rare that one can
Dialogue: 0,0:30:22.43,0:30:29.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,actually take the state, challenge the\Nstate legally in its own institutions.
Dialogue: 0,0:30:29.66,0:30:37.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,What we need to establish are alternative\Nforums, and for us these could be public
Dialogue: 0,0:30:37.08,0:30:42.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,spaces, exhibitions, etc. I think some of\Nyou might know about the work that we've
Dialogue: 0,0:30:42.61,0:30:52.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,done on the NSU, on the Temme, or the\NVerfassungsschutz agent, that was suspected
Dialogue: 0,0:30:52.30,0:30:56.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to be present in an internet cafe in\NKassel during the time of a racist
Dialogue: 0,0:30:56.50,0:31:05.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,killing, and us showing that he was there.\NHe could not have missed this event, that
Dialogue: 0,0:31:05.23,0:31:09.15,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,was presented in Documenta, and Documenta\Noffered for us another very interesting
Dialogue: 0,0:31:09.15,0:31:16.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,forum. The fact it was shown there\Nhas in fact mobilized the process,
Dialogue: 0,0:31:16.81,0:31:24.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,including in a German federal\Ninvestigation, and also in a Hessen
Dialogue: 0,0:31:24.71,0:31:32.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,parliamentary investigation, where\Ndifferent delegations from
Dialogue: 0,0:31:32.09,0:31:38.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,this parliamentary investigation came to\NDocumenta to see it. And finally, that work
Dialogue: 0,0:31:38.32,0:31:46.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,was presented to Temme. He was forced to\Nlook at it and to comment upon it.
Dialogue: 0,0:31:46.47,0:31:52.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I think, I should probably leave some time\Nto question. I'm sorry about the chaotic
Dialogue: 0,0:31:52.17,0:31:58.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,presentation, but I guess this is the\Nnature of this event, so I'm happy to have
Dialogue: 0,0:31:58.21,0:32:02.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,had at least a chance to present to you\Nsome work. Thanks for listening.
Dialogue: 0,0:32:02.38,0:32:13.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,{\i1}Applause{\i0}
Dialogue: 0,0:32:13.91,0:32:17.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Herald: So, thank you all for a very\Ninteresting talk, despite of the
Dialogue: 0,0:32:17.32,0:32:21.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,difficulties. If you have any questions,\Nthen there are four microphones, here in
Dialogue: 0,0:32:21.63,0:32:26.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the center aisle and two on the side. And\Nyou can line up and ask your questions,
Dialogue: 0,0:32:26.98,0:32:32.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and first question microphone number one.\NMicrophone 1: How much has any official
Dialogue: 0,0:32:32.16,0:32:37.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,state tried to shut down your\Ninvestigations, or...
Dialogue: 0,0:32:39.03,0:32:47.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Eyal: Well, this is... shutdown is a\Ncomplicated term. First of all,
Dialogue: 0,0:32:47.92,0:32:53.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we face interruptions initially in not\Nbeing allowed access to sites. And this is
Dialogue: 0,0:32:53.16,0:32:59.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,very much the question in the West Bank\Nand Gaza. Our investigators, when they
Dialogue: 0,0:32:59.81,0:33:05.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,land in Tel Aviv Airport, sometimes are\Ninterrogated, sometimes they're turned around.
Dialogue: 0,0:33:05.98,0:33:12.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Nothing of that is comparable to what the\NIsraeli state would have done if these
Dialogue: 0,0:33:12.69,0:33:19.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,were Palestinians trying to do the same\Nthing, so to a certain extent me being an
Dialogue: 0,0:33:19.69,0:33:28.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Israeli Jew, I'm privileged by the state.\NAnd the attempt is to use those privileges
Dialogue: 0,0:33:28.29,0:33:38.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to undo those privileges to a certain\Nextent. We continuously had interruptions
Dialogue: 0,0:33:38.20,0:33:44.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,from the FBI, for example, when we did the\Nwhite phosphorus research, that included
Dialogue: 0,0:33:44.16,0:33:51.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,work on their attacking Fallujah, Iraq, with\Nwhite phosphorus. We had some of our
Dialogue: 0,0:33:51.63,0:33:58.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,collaborators in the US's home being\Nraided. We have, you know,
Dialogue: 0,0:33:58.76,0:34:06.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,been trolled and threatened.\NBut, it's kind of a continuous sort of
Dialogue: 0,0:34:06.68,0:34:14.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,dance of us being to, kind of protect our\Nstaff, protect our data, and attempt to
Dialogue: 0,0:34:14.82,0:34:21.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,penetrate it. Attempts to smear us on a\Npublic domain, and feel very little
Dialogue: 0,0:34:21.30,0:34:23.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,victories sometimes.
Dialogue: 0,0:34:26.00,0:34:27.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Herald: Microphone 4.
Dialogue: 0,0:34:27.87,0:34:32.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,4: Thank you very much for your talk. Two\Npart question here, the first one is about
Dialogue: 0,0:34:32.86,0:34:37.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the framework. Have you developed it\Nspecial for this case, do you have it
Dialogue: 0,0:34:37.13,0:34:43.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,available, if you build new ones for each\Nresearch, and the second part is: How
Dialogue: 0,0:34:43.45,0:34:49.01,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,do you sustain yourself financially.\NEyal: Actually, it's the same question,
Dialogue: 0,0:34:49.01,0:34:53.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because our aim is to develop new\Nevidentiary techniques, so we kind of
Dialogue: 0,0:34:53.55,0:34:58.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,never do the same investigation twice or\Nwe never use the same methodologies twice.
Dialogue: 0,0:34:58.78,0:35:05.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,What we do, after we develop any software,\Nis that we put it on the public domain, we
Dialogue: 0,0:35:05.70,0:35:13.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,put it as an open source code. And we, or\Nif it is kind of techniques of more
Dialogue: 0,0:35:13.12,0:35:18.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,architectural or editing image based\Ntechniques, we have academies, we teach
Dialogue: 0,0:35:18.44,0:35:23.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,activists how to do it, so we try, whenever\Nwe work with partners on the ground, to
Dialogue: 0,0:35:23.53,0:35:30.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,leave capacity behind us. And that is also\Nthe reason... or what enables this to us is
Dialogue: 0,0:35:30.81,0:35:36.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that we are sustained on research grants,\Nrather than only on commissions.
Dialogue: 0,0:35:36.85,0:35:42.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Although, you know, I mean, if a\Nprosecutor, human right group, or any other
Dialogue: 0,0:35:42.47,0:35:47.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,civil society group would like to\Ncommission us, we would... they would pay
Dialogue: 0,0:35:47.91,0:35:52.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for part of the investigation, but the\Nlarge part of it is actually research
Dialogue: 0,0:35:52.57,0:36:00.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,grants that translated into open source\Nstuff, and the investigations are being
Dialogue: 0,0:36:00.93,0:36:04.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,put in the public domain. It's kind of, when\Nyou look at our videos, they're a little
Dialogue: 0,0:36:04.39,0:36:08.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,bit like cooking programs, because they\Nboth tell you what we find, and they tell
Dialogue: 0,0:36:08.44,0:36:13.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you exactly how to do it. It's kind of,\Ntake you step-by-step, this is what you do
Dialogue: 0,0:36:13.19,0:36:18.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,here, then that, then this, etc.
Dialogue: 0,0:36:18.29,0:36:19.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Herald: Microphone 4
Dialogue: 0,0:36:19.92,0:36:23.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,4: Thank you so much for your work on\Nthis. My question is like, how would any
Dialogue: 0,0:36:23.79,0:36:29.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of us be able to get involved in this,\Nsupport you in one way or another.
Dialogue: 0,0:36:29.76,0:36:38.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Eyal: We, in fact, we are now about 15\Narchitects, coders, and filmmakers and we
Dialogue: 0,0:36:38.59,0:36:45.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,are recruiting because we're growing. I\Nwill stay here for the day, so anyone that
Dialogue: 0,0:36:45.26,0:36:50.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,wants to come and work with us in London\Nor remotely, I'll be delighted to speak to
Dialogue: 0,0:36:50.53,0:36:56.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you.\NHerald: Microphone 4
Dialogue: 0,0:36:58.96,0:37:05.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,4: I have a question about which tools,\Nwhich techniques and tools do you use to
Dialogue: 0,0:37:05.07,0:37:11.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,perform the 3D reconstruction, and if you\Nhave partnered with any kind of company
Dialogue: 0,0:37:11.60,0:37:17.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that already has {\i1}inaudible{\i0} and already\Ndoes {\i1}inaudible{\i0} 3D {\i1}inaudible{\i0} as a
Dialogue: 0,0:37:17.82,0:37:21.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,baseline.\NEyal: We started doing now
Dialogue: 0,0:37:21.96,0:37:29.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,photogrammetry, as 3D reconstruction\Nfrom existing open source images. So
Dialogue: 0,0:37:29.58,0:37:35.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,imagine, you know, a place in Syria, let's\Nsay, that has been photographed or video-ed
Dialogue: 0,0:37:35.58,0:37:41.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,by many users. We are able\Nto reconstruct it. In fact this is one of
Dialogue: 0,0:37:41.23,0:37:45.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the techniques we use in order to identify\Nthe gas attack on Khan Sheikhun in
Dialogue: 0,0:37:45.96,0:37:52.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Syria by the regime forces. Reconstructing\Nprecisely, to the millimeter, the shape of
Dialogue: 0,0:37:52.12,0:37:59.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the crater. And we were able to reconstruct\Nfrom it the level of explosives etc, and
Dialogue: 0,0:37:59.48,0:38:06.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that they were fitting only that\Nparticular rocket. We don't really work
Dialogue: 0,0:38:06.23,0:38:12.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,together with companies, we try to take\Nexisting softwares and kind of
Dialogue: 0,0:38:12.81,0:38:20.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,adjust them to our aim. But\Ninitially, what I want to leave you with, is
Dialogue: 0,0:38:20.25,0:38:23.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the question of why architecture is really
Dialogue: 0,0:38:23.40,0:38:30.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,important here. In a situation when you\Ndon't have only like two images of the
Dialogue: 0,0:38:30.08,0:38:36.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,scene, let's say police brutality or an\Nattack on a city etc, but you have 70,000
Dialogue: 0,0:38:36.90,0:38:42.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and you need to cross-reference them and\Nyou need to place them within a space, the
Dialogue: 0,0:38:42.50,0:38:49.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,only way to do it is in architectural\Nmodels. Architecture is like the optical
Dialogue: 0,0:38:49.00,0:38:54.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,device that allows us to sync up and\Nlocate, you know, those cameras that are
Dialogue: 0,0:38:54.76,0:39:02.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in space and moving in space. So, it is\Nreally the necessity of work
Dialogue: 0,0:39:02.40,0:39:11.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of architects, filmmakers, and coders is\Nfundamental, because space replaces the
Dialogue: 0,0:39:11.37,0:39:16.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,kind of modernist montage as a relation to\Nimages. Montage is the edits in film, that
Dialogue: 0,0:39:16.98,0:39:22.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is kind of, you know, the basic of cinema,\Nof political cinema, the dialectic montage,
Dialogue: 0,0:39:22.23,0:39:25.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,if you like. You splice film and put it\Ntogether.
Dialogue: 0,0:39:25.10,0:39:31.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That makes no sense for us, because we\Nneed to move within space, pick up one
Dialogue: 0,0:39:31.03,0:39:35.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,film, not to cut it, we never cut the\Nfilms that we have, we just leave them
Dialogue: 0,0:39:35.53,0:39:41.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,within the model in the full duration, but\Nthe investigator can move and navigate in
Dialogue: 0,0:39:41.38,0:39:46.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,space and time between them, and as I\Nshowed you in a Mexico case, you know,
Dialogue: 0,0:39:46.90,0:39:53.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,these are like tens and tens of thousands\Nof data points that create kind of
Dialogue: 0,0:39:53.91,0:39:59.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,intersections, between data image and\Narchitecture, where the story starts
Dialogue: 0,0:39:59.86,0:40:11.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to unfold at all. So yeah.\NHerald: More questions. Microphone 3.
Dialogue: 0,0:40:11.85,0:40:17.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,3: When you publish the videos and the time\Nand place from which they were taken,
Dialogue: 0,0:40:17.58,0:40:22.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,how do you ensure that you're not putting in\Ndanger the people who took the video.
Dialogue: 0,0:40:22.69,0:40:29.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Eyal: Yeah, this is a really good\Nquestion. We..., the work to sync up those
Dialogue: 0,0:40:29.31,0:40:36.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,70,000 images from Gaza, where... took us\Na year. Think about it, a year... we're
Dialogue: 0,0:40:36.41,0:40:42.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,working a year on one day. That's about the\Nright kind of ratio in forensic time that
Dialogue: 0,0:40:42.22,0:40:47.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we are operating within it. What\Nprotects people during war, during when
Dialogue: 0,0:40:47.83,0:40:55.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,they will do it, we'll never place their\Nlocation, but months after the conflict it
Dialogue: 0,0:40:55.81,0:41:04.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,was deemed by our partners in Palestine\Nand by our partners in Amnesty, that this
Dialogue: 0,0:41:04.19,0:41:11.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is safe to do without going back to each\Nsource and in fact asking them. We would
Dialogue: 0,0:41:11.76,0:41:16.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,never do it in real time, though.\NHerald: Microphone 4
Dialogue: 0,0:41:16.74,0:41:27.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,4: Yes, the work you do strikes me as very\Nsimilar to what bellingcat do, so can you
Dialogue: 0,0:41:27.40,0:41:29.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,comment on how forensic architecture\Ncompares to bellingcat?
Dialogue: 0,0:41:29.52,0:41:33.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Eyal: No, we work a lot with bellingcat\Nand Elliot, I mean some some of our
Dialogue: 0,0:41:33.24,0:41:42.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,projects are together, I guess that\Nour... the difference is not, we engage
Dialogue: 0,0:41:42.96,0:41:52.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,more in sort of big environment and kind\Nof like data analysis, from many sort of
Dialogue: 0,0:41:52.55,0:41:58.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,data points, where architecture, or\Narchitectural models, are kind of the arena
Dialogue: 0,0:41:58.56,0:42:04.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that holds and cross-reference all those\Nimages together. The overlap in our work,
Dialogue: 0,0:42:04.59,0:42:10.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,really, is a kind of image identification:\NWhat do we see, where the image is located
Dialogue: 0,0:42:10.14,0:42:22.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,etc, and on these issues we work with them\Ntogether. We tend to work more against
Dialogue: 0,0:42:22.76,0:42:32.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,states', western states', militaries, holding\Nthem to account, we feel, is that these
Dialogue: 0,0:42:32.74,0:42:39.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,techniques are actually much more useful\Ndirected at the British, American, Israeli
Dialogue: 0,0:42:39.39,0:42:48.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,militaries and that we are able also to\Ndraw responses that are effective in these
Dialogue: 0,0:42:48.03,0:42:55.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,fields and I guess bellingcat has\Nslightly different sort of field in which
Dialogue: 0,0:42:55.23,0:42:58.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,they work.\NHerald: Okay, I think with that, that
Dialogue: 0,0:42:58.70,0:43:01.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,would be our last question. So again, a\Nbig round of applause to Eyal for a great
Dialogue: 0,0:43:01.82,0:43:03.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,talk.\NEyal: Thank you.
Dialogue: 0,0:43:03.20,0:43:05.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Herald: Thank you very much.
Dialogue: 0,0:43:05.71,0:43:13.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,{\i1}Applause{\i0}
Dialogue: 0,0:43:13.33,0:43:18.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,{\i1}34c3 outro{\i0}
Dialogue: 0,0:43:18.24,0:43:35.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,subtitles created by c3subtitles.de\Nin the year 2018. Join, and help us!