How to let the Self die - Is God good?

Questions and answer with Zen Master Thich Nhat Hanh, June 2014.

(Bell)

(Bell)

Dear Thay, my name is Frances.

My parents gave me that name
after Saint Francis of Assisi.

Thay , we are all your continuation

and I vowed to continue
what you taught us.

Especially yesterday you told us
about the bell.

Perhaps we will be awakened

and will help others
to be awakened

and we transcend the path
of anxiety and sorrow.

This is my vow

and I know that the path
will not be effortless,

even though we've learned
about effortless,

we have learned about
mindfulness with insight.

I know that the solution for that
is the dying of the self.

With the dying of the self
there can be effortlessness.

But at the same time,

to live a vow

we have to go through
burning decisions,

like a flame is burning.

I have to make a decision
against the collective energy.

I also see that I am
transforming my suffering

and also my parents' suffering.

The way I have been doing it
and the way that I will continue to do it

is to... I pray to God
and to the Goddess in me.

Outside of me is
the cosmic true nature body

and it is also inside of me.

But supposing that everything comes
from the arising of conditions,

I see it as if everything
comes from God's plan

which is that everything is good.

I get anxiety, I get depression,
I get ill health

it is a blessing.

If I get good health,
I get a Sangha, I get a teaching,

it is a blessing.

So I cannot see it as if
everything arises from conditions.

I see it as a path of compassion

and everything arises from compassion.

(Sister) Dear Thay, dear Sangha,

our friend Frances
was named after the monk

Saint Francis of Assisi.

First of all she expressed to Thay

how inspired she was by
Thay's teachings of the bell yesterday.

She has made a vow to herself

to continue Thay and
to really master this practice

and to live the insight
of the gatha deeply

to transcend her own anxiety and sorrow.

Her first partial question is:

How, with such a strong vow,
she can do that

without having
a too strong sense of a self.

How can she realize her vow
to overcome difficulties in her life

to heal herself.

For example, in order to truly transcend
anxiety and sorrow

she knows she will have to
make a lot of burning decisions

to change her way of life

against the opinions of those around her,
her family and society.

How can she realize that vow without
having too strong a sense of self?

The second part of her question is

that when she experiences
difficulties in her life,

whether it is anxiety,
or depression or ill health,

she understands this
as being a gift from God.

Frances is a Christian

so she takes these as a blessing,

it is part of God's plan.

So her question is:

She sees God as something both
outside of herself and inside her.

But is it true that God is good, that
everything that God sends her is good?

And that she should receive it as good?

Frances is aware that
everything arises from conditions.

Can we see God's world
in these conditions?

You spoke about the death of the self.

The dying of the self.

I don't think that the self has to die,

because there is no self to die.

(Laughter)

The self is just a view,

a wrong view, a notion.

It is not reality.

So there is no need for something
that is not there to die.

We should not try to kill the self.

But you can remove the illusion

by having a deep vision of reality,

practicing the meditation
on impermanence,

because everything
is changing so quickly,

and naturally the notion
of the self is no longer there.

Because the self is something
that is everlasting,

remaining the same.

We may ask whether God is a self or not.

It is sure that God is not a self.

If God is a self,
then all of us are selves.

A big self or small selves.

If there is a me, a self,

there should be a non me
existing at the same time.

We can accept the self as a reality.

On the conventional level of truth
we can speak of me, I and you,

he and she,

because that designation is useful.

It is called conventional designation.

If we don't have
these conventional designations,

we cannot talk,
we cannot do business.

I, you, this and that

are called conventional designations.

The problem is that we have to be aware
that it is only conventional designation,

and we are free from them.

We can make good use of them
but you are free from them.

And as I said, even the Buddha,
he had to be free from the Buddha.

There was a Zen teacher.

One day, in his Dharma talk, he said:

'I am allergic to the word Buddha'.

(Laughter)

'But sometimes I have to
pronounce the word Buddha.

But you know, my friends?

Every time that I have to
utter the word Buddha,

after that I have to go to the bathroom

and rinse my mouth three times.'

(Laughter)

That is the way the Zen people talk.

(Laughter)

They want to speak about freedom.

Even freedom from the Buddha.

The Zen teachers have their own way,

and their way is sometimes very strong.

'I'm allergic to the word Buddha.

Every time I have to
pronounce the word Buddha,

I have to go to bath
and rinse my mouth.'

It is something not very clean.

It is a very strong statement.

Then, in those days,

there was a Zen student who stoop up

and said:

'Dear teacher,

I am also allergic to the word Buddha.

Every time I hear you
pronounce the word Buddha,

I have to go to the river

and wash my ears, three times!

(Laughter)

I think that is a good
teacher-student couple.

(Laughter)

They are free from words and notions.

Even from words like Buddha or God.

They are free from the notions.

Because you may get
Buddha and God only as notions

and not the truth, the reality.

So you have to be very careful.

Of course you have learned
about dependent origination.

Remember we have
that example on the clouds.

There are many clouds in the sky.

These clouds interact with each other.

They produce each other.

There is the lateral,
horizontal relationship

but we all know that all clouds
come from the ocean.

So there is a vertical relationship.

You are a cloud,
you carry the ocean with you.

You are a human being

but you carry God inside of you.

That is a vertical relationship.

So there is the horizontal explanation

and there is a vertical one.

But these two should not be distinguished
as two separate things.

Looking into the horizontal
you see the vertical.

And looking deeply into the vertical
you see the horizontal.

But you have to remove

the notion of horizontal
and vertical at the same time.

We have learned

that notions like being and not being,

good and evil have to be removed.

Because that is the way
our mind consciousness perceives things.

If you describe God
as the ground of being,

we lock Him, we lock Her into a notion,

the notion of being.

If God is the ground of being,

who will be the ground of non-being?

So we cannot think of God
in terms of being and non-being.

God transcends the terms
being and non being.

As the Buddha said:

'The right view is a view that transcends
both the notions of being and non-being.'

Not only that,

but the right view is also the view that
transcends the notions of good and evil.

If you say that God is in control
of the Kingdom of the Goodness,

who will be in control
of the Kingdom of Evil?

So God ultimately transcends
both the notion of good and evil.

Until you see that,

you cannot see
the plan of God, his intention.

So that means you are pulled to say that

if God is compassionate,

why He has created something like death,

tsunamis, tempest and things like that?

Why He has allowed
these things to happen?

Delusions are trying to say:

'This is for you to learn,
that is also good for you.'

But our mind is inclined to think

that what is good
is not causing suffering.

Only the bad things are called suffering.

So that is our mind of discrimination.

We should not use
that mind of discrimination

in order to try to understand God.

That is why the deepest way,

the most wonderful way
to touch the ultimate

is to remove notions.

Including the notions of
being and non-being, good and evil.

We have learned that for alayavijñana
everything is a wonder.

There is no good and evil in it.

There is no being and non being in it.

Only mind consciousness
has these notions.

We are caught in these notions.

These notions may be useful.

But if you are caught in them,
you suffer.

(Bell)

(Bell)