Honoring the stories of illness | Dr. Rita Charon | TEDxAtlanta
-
0:18 - 0:19Thanks very much.
-
0:21 - 0:24So, here's a doctor from New York,
-
0:24 - 0:26dressed in black,
-
0:26 - 0:29talking to you on September 13th.
-
0:30 - 0:32And you're going to think
I'm going to talk about death, -
0:32 - 0:38as did all New Yorkers
over the past many days and weeks. -
0:38 - 0:39Well, I am.
-
0:39 - 0:45But I'm going to talk with you about that
-
0:45 - 0:49in terms of joy and in terms of truth.
-
0:50 - 0:53I need to tell you
a little bit about my medicine -
0:53 - 0:55in order to get to the joy.
-
0:56 - 1:01Todd is right that I came to medicine,
-
1:02 - 1:05not knowing a whole lot about it,
-
1:05 - 1:11but I came to medicine
because I was a life-long reader. -
1:11 - 1:14I was the kind of kid who would get
10 books out of the library -
1:14 - 1:16and read them all before they were due,
-
1:16 - 1:19and I hope many of you were like that too.
-
1:20 - 1:26And as a reader, I understood,
once I opened my practice, -
1:26 - 1:31once I finished all the business
of staying up all night being an intern, -
1:31 - 1:37that what I did in the office,
what patients paid me to do, -
1:37 - 1:42was to pay exquisite attention
to the narratives that they gave me - -
1:42 - 1:45which were in words, in silences,
-
1:45 - 1:51in those facial expressions
that we saw earlier today, -
1:51 - 1:54in their body, in how the body changed,
-
1:54 - 2:00in the tracings and pictures
that we had of their body, -
2:00 - 2:04in what other people said about them -
-
2:04 - 2:08and that it was my task
to cohere these stories -
2:08 - 2:12so that they, at least provisionally,
-
2:12 - 2:14made some sense;
-
2:14 - 2:19to take these multiple
contradictory narratives -
2:19 - 2:25and let them build something
that we could act on. -
2:25 - 2:27So that's what we did.
-
2:28 - 2:29I realized right away
-
2:29 - 2:34that I didn't know very much about stories
even though I was a voracious reader, -
2:34 - 2:39and I went kind of timidly
to the English department - -
2:39 - 2:40I was at Columbia already -
-
2:40 - 2:42I went to the English department;
-
2:42 - 2:43I said, "Could you teach a doctor
-
2:43 - 2:47something about stories
and how they work?" -
2:47 - 2:48And God bless them,
-
2:48 - 2:51the English department
was very happy to take me in. -
2:52 - 2:56You know, I wrote prescriptions for them;
-
2:56 - 2:58(Laughter)
-
2:58 - 2:59I gave them referrals.
-
3:00 - 3:06But I think they really joined me
in the idea that the knowledge they had, -
3:06 - 3:11very specialized narratological knowledge,
-
3:11 - 3:14could do something good in the world.
-
3:15 - 3:19They didn't let me out
until I had a master's degree, a PhD. -
3:19 - 3:26They let me write a dissertation
on Henry James, who is my beloved author. -
3:27 - 3:33And I want to tell you
how the story training - -
3:33 - 3:37awakening and nourishing
my own sense of story - -
3:37 - 3:42how it transformed
my teaching and my practice. -
3:45 - 3:51This was not the first time that anyone
had put literature with medicine. -
3:51 - 3:53By then - this was the '90s already -
-
3:53 - 3:57by then, there were persons in -
I hope you know this - -
3:57 - 4:02in philosophy, in history,
in literary studies, in ethics -
4:02 - 4:05who had come into medicine,
-
4:05 - 4:09and they were all helping us
to improve our practice -
4:09 - 4:13based on human learning
-
4:14 - 4:18in addition to the scientific
knowledge we all had. -
4:18 - 4:19So, I was by no means the first one
-
4:19 - 4:23to bring literary studies
into the practice of medicine. -
4:23 - 4:26But somehow, by starting as a doctor first
-
4:26 - 4:32and then getting all this training
in stories and how to understand them, -
4:32 - 4:33I think I had a more -
-
4:35 - 4:40my sleeves were more rolled up
in using this knowledge. -
4:40 - 4:45So my colleagues and I at Columbia
-
4:45 - 4:51kind of invented, or created, a field
that we called "narrative medicine," -
4:51 - 4:55which we define very simply
as clinical practice -
4:55 - 4:59fortified by the knowledge
of what to do with stories. -
5:00 - 5:03So that with these skills -
-
5:03 - 5:07in first of all having a sense of story,
-
5:07 - 5:12and then being able to recognize
when someone is telling you a story, -
5:12 - 5:13to absorb the story,
-
5:14 - 5:15to receive it whole,
-
5:16 - 5:17to receive all of it,
-
5:17 - 5:24including even those unsaid
hints and guesses -
5:24 - 5:27about what might be left unsaid,
-
5:27 - 5:28to absorb them,
-
5:28 - 5:30to interpret them,
-
5:30 - 5:32to honor them,
-
5:32 - 5:34and then to be moved by them
-
5:34 - 5:37and to be moved by them to action.
-
5:37 - 5:41So this is what we called
narrative medicine. -
5:44 - 5:49We found very effective, economical ways
-
5:49 - 5:51to teach
-
5:51 - 5:58the skills of reading and writing
and storytelling and receiving -
5:58 - 6:01to medical students, nursing students,
-
6:02 - 6:06doctors, social workers,
chaplains, patients, families - -
6:07 - 6:11all the people who come
in and out of hospitals. -
6:11 - 6:15I'm assuming that some of you
are from healthcare, -
6:15 - 6:20either as professionals
or as patients or as families. -
6:20 - 6:26You know the kinds of silences
there are in those elevators in hospitals. -
6:26 - 6:31You know what happens
when you pass someone in the hallway -
6:31 - 6:35who has no legs or who's bleeding.
-
6:35 - 6:37You know that.
-
6:38 - 6:43Our challenge was to bring
to these people, -
6:43 - 6:46perhaps used to illness,
-
6:46 - 6:50perhaps hardened against it,
-
6:50 - 6:54ways to open their own springs
of imagination, -
6:55 - 6:56of creativity,
-
6:56 - 6:58of receptivity
-
6:58 - 7:04so that they would not just
not lose their sense of story, -
7:04 - 7:07but, indeed, build it.
-
7:10 - 7:15There were amazing
transformations in my practice. -
7:15 - 7:20I work in a rather shabby clinic
in Presbyterian Hospital, -
7:20 - 7:26which is in New York - in the way,
way upper parts of Manhattan - -
7:27 - 7:33and as I improved
my own capacity to read closely, -
7:33 - 7:35where every word counts,
-
7:35 - 7:40I was able to learn how
to listen closely, -
7:40 - 7:42where every word counts,
-
7:42 - 7:47So, in the office,
when I saw a new patient, -
7:47 - 7:51I wouldn't ask millions
of questions anymore, -
7:51 - 7:56like, no doubt, many of you
have been asked by doctors. -
7:56 - 8:00Typically what we do,
faced with a stranger, -
8:00 - 8:03is we kind of start at the top
and work down. -
8:03 - 8:05I'm sure you've had this:
-
8:05 - 8:06Do you have headaches?
-
8:06 - 8:07Do you have nosebleeds?
-
8:07 - 8:11Do you have trouble with your hearing?
With your swallowing? -
8:11 - 8:13Do you have trouble with your breathing?
-
8:13 - 8:14And all the way down.
-
8:14 - 8:16And what operations have you had?
-
8:16 - 8:18And what allergies do you have?
-
8:18 - 8:20And what medicines are you on?
-
8:20 - 8:22So I learned not to do that,
-
8:22 - 8:24and instead to say,
-
8:24 - 8:26"I will be your doctor,
-
8:26 - 8:28and so I need to know a great deal
-
8:28 - 8:32about your body
and your health and your life. -
8:33 - 8:37Please tell me what you think
I should know about your situation." -
8:38 - 8:40And when I did that,
-
8:40 - 8:43and when I let persons simply answer,
-
8:43 - 8:49instead of writing things down
or typing or computing, -
8:49 - 8:51I would simply sit in my chair,
-
8:52 - 8:54hands in my lap,
-
8:54 - 8:57and absorb what was being said.
-
8:57 - 9:00And what I learned,
right from the beginning, -
9:00 - 9:06is that persons were not only able
but deeply thirsty -
9:06 - 9:10to give profound, detailed,
-
9:10 - 9:14eloquent accounts of themselves.
-
9:14 - 9:17They didn't always know how
or how to start. -
9:17 - 9:20One woman says, "You want me to talk?"
-
9:20 - 9:22(Laughter)
-
9:24 - 9:30Another man, one of the first
to whom I made this invitation, -
9:30 - 9:33started to tell me
about the death of his father -
9:34 - 9:36and then the death of his brother
-
9:36 - 9:40and then the trouble he was having
with his teenage son. -
9:40 - 9:42And then he starts to cry.
-
9:43 - 9:46I broke my silence:
I said, "Why do you weep?" -
9:47 - 9:51He says, "No one
ever let me do this before." -
9:55 - 10:01So a woman I saw - I just saw her
a few days ago when I made a house call. -
10:01 - 10:04Well, she's been my patient
for a long time. -
10:04 - 10:05She -
-
10:05 - 10:08as anyone I speak about
or [write] about, -
10:08 - 10:10knows what I'm to say,
-
10:10 - 10:11has read what I've written
-
10:11 - 10:15and has given, as we say,
informed consent for me to do so. -
10:15 - 10:18So I'm not breaking any secrets.
-
10:18 - 10:24I certainly won't use the name,
but she has - we have her blessings. -
10:25 - 10:28She had breast cancer 20 years ago.
-
10:28 - 10:30She had a mastectomy -
-
10:30 - 10:33sorry, she had a lumpectomy,
small operation. -
10:33 - 10:37She was on medicine for five years;
she was told she was cured. -
10:38 - 10:43About a year ago, she developed
a lump in that same breast. -
10:43 - 10:46On biopsy, it was a new cancer.
-
10:47 - 10:49She was stoic about the recurrence.
-
10:49 - 10:52She underwent a mastectomy this time.
-
10:52 - 10:56It's a big operation;
it was a disfiguring operation. -
10:56 - 10:59She declined breast reconstruction.
-
10:59 - 11:01She said she was too old for that.
-
11:02 - 11:07And she recovered uneventfully
from the surgery. -
11:07 - 11:12But then she began to worry
that the cancer would come back. -
11:13 - 11:15She was in my office every other week.
-
11:15 - 11:19On the off-week, she was
in the office of the breast surgeon. -
11:19 - 11:20She felt a new lump;
-
11:20 - 11:22she felt something funny under her arm;
-
11:22 - 11:24there was something
not right about the scar. -
11:24 - 11:27She was terrified that it would come back.
-
11:27 - 11:29We kept reassuring her:
-
11:29 - 11:32"No, that's just how the tissues heal";
-
11:32 - 11:35"No, that's your cancer markers."
-
11:35 - 11:39We did blood tests
to make sure there was no cancer. -
11:39 - 11:43I did an ultrasound of the scar.
-
11:44 - 11:46She could not be reassured,
-
11:46 - 11:50and so she thought
that we were deceiving her. -
11:51 - 11:54Finally, after another one of these exams,
-
11:54 - 11:57breast examinations in the office,
-
11:57 - 12:02I thought I could imagine
what was deep to the scar. -
12:02 - 12:06I leaned back
against the sink in my office. -
12:06 - 12:09I told her I thought
I understood what the fear was. -
12:10 - 12:15I told her I thought what she feared
was that she would die, -
12:16 - 12:22that she had the courage and the vision
from these two illnesses -
12:22 - 12:26to know what many of us know
but refuse to really face up to: -
12:26 - 12:29that is simply we will die.
-
12:29 - 12:34I told her that I thought
she was in the glare of this knowledge. -
12:35 - 12:40I said, "We don't know
what will end your life. -
12:40 - 12:44Your body may well harbor now
the disease that will do so. -
12:44 - 12:46It might be the breast cancer.
-
12:46 - 12:48It might be something else.
-
12:48 - 12:51But we know something
will take your life." -
12:52 - 12:59I said I couldn't do more than we had
to assure her of her health, -
12:59 - 13:01but here is something I could do:
-
13:01 - 13:06I could stand with her
in the glare of that fear. -
13:08 - 13:12And right after that conversation,
I checked back with her by phone. -
13:12 - 13:14She said she felt much better.
-
13:14 - 13:16She felt much more relaxed.
-
13:16 - 13:20She wasn't worried the way she had been,
-
13:20 - 13:23and she was sure that I was right.
-
13:23 - 13:25Now, the way I knew that,
-
13:25 - 13:30the way I came to understand it
is that I'd been writing about her, -
13:30 - 13:33and I'd been showing her
what I wrote about her. -
13:33 - 13:38And in that way, we made contact
through her illness, -
13:38 - 13:40through her fear,
-
13:40 - 13:42through the glare of death
-
13:42 - 13:45that was there now, in the room with us -
-
13:45 - 13:47as it always is -
-
13:47 - 13:49but there it was in the room with us,
-
13:49 - 13:51and we could ...
-
13:54 - 13:56accept it.
-
13:56 - 14:00And more than that,
we made contact through it. -
14:05 - 14:12It helped me and this woman
to understand what medicine is for, -
14:12 - 14:14and even bigger than that,
-
14:14 - 14:19in excess of the medicine,
what ordinary living is for. -
14:19 - 14:23It's for the making of contact.
-
14:23 - 14:25It's through the contact.
-
14:25 - 14:27And of course, illness exposes,
-
14:28 - 14:30so that I'm privileged as a doctor
-
14:30 - 14:36to be in situations where there is
very little separating me from a patient. -
14:36 - 14:39Do you see what I mean by "exposes"?
-
14:39 - 14:45You're down to the floor of who you are
in the presence of illness. -
14:48 - 14:53So, not only did we kind of help
the immediate problem -
14:53 - 14:56with her own fear,
-
14:56 - 15:03but we made enduring,
life-long contact - -
15:03 - 15:05the two of us.
-
15:06 - 15:09This is possible all the time.
-
15:09 - 15:11This is possible all the time.
-
15:12 - 15:13I told her -
-
15:13 - 15:20I think I told her about a novel
by John Banville called "The Infinities," -
15:20 - 15:22in which he overhears Zeus
-
15:22 - 15:24up on Mount Olympus
-
15:24 - 15:28looking down at these mortals
that he's created, -
15:28 - 15:34and Zeus envies the human beings
their mortality. -
15:34 - 15:38He says, "It's your death
that gives your lives meaning." -
15:39 - 15:42And so my patient and I understand that,
-
15:42 - 15:46that it's in the dying,
in the limits of the life, -
15:46 - 15:48that we have our meaning,
-
15:48 - 15:53and that we pour ourselves
into those things that endure - -
15:53 - 15:58the family, progeny,
work, art, dance, -
15:59 - 16:01life,
-
16:01 - 16:02play.
-
16:02 - 16:05Those things that will endure
-
16:07 - 16:09in time and with others
-
16:09 - 16:12are those things that give us meaning.
-
16:12 - 16:14And they're only available to us
-
16:14 - 16:20through the presence
and the truth of death. -
16:20 - 16:23When I say, "What is medicine for?"
-
16:24 - 16:29my patients have been able to teach me,
as have my students, what it's for. -
16:29 - 16:32When we teach narrative
medicine in groups, -
16:32 - 16:38it doesn't matter who - doctors,
nurses, chaplains, patients, families - -
16:38 - 16:42we all join together in a clearing.
-
16:42 - 16:48These narrative storytellings
help us to form clearings - -
16:48 - 16:49you know, in the forest
-
16:49 - 16:54when the trees kind of thin out,
and it's moss and it's ferns? - -
16:54 - 16:55and we're able,
-
16:55 - 16:58many different ones of us
-
16:58 - 17:03from often rather divided camps,
-
17:03 - 17:07can come together
in the clearing of storytelling, -
17:07 - 17:14and within the clearing
of this human gift of mortality, -
17:14 - 17:18and that's where the truth is exposed,
-
17:18 - 17:21and that's where the freedoms emit.
-
17:22 - 17:24What medicine is for
-
17:24 - 17:30is to donate the expertise
to an act of fidelity, -
17:31 - 17:34to give someone company
-
17:34 - 17:39and to form staunch, sturdy affiliation
-
17:39 - 17:41within our clearings,
-
17:41 - 17:43within our dyads,
-
17:43 - 17:46within our shabby clinics
-
17:46 - 17:51so that no one has to be
in the glare of sickness, -
17:51 - 17:54or even the glare of death,
-
17:54 - 17:55alone.
-
17:57 - 17:59I'm fortunate to be a doctor
to be able to do this. -
17:59 - 18:04Anyone in any enterprise
-
18:04 - 18:07has the chance for making contact,
-
18:07 - 18:11as in this room - a clearing.
-
18:11 - 18:12Thank you.
-
18:12 - 18:14(Applause)
- Title:
- Honoring the stories of illness | Dr. Rita Charon | TEDxAtlanta
- Description:
-
What can a doctor do with her patients' stories? How can the telling of and listening to stories create "clearings" for patients and doctors - and anyone - to aid in healing work?
Rita Charon is founder and Executive Director of the Program in Narrative Medicine at Columbia and New York-Presbyterian Hospital. She completed her MD at Harvard in 1978 and her PhD in English at Columbia in 1999. Her research focuses on doctor-patient relationships, narrative skill in medicine and reflective practice. She has received a Rockefeller Foundation Bellagio residency, a Guggenheim Fellowship and research funding from the NIH, the NEH and several private foundations.
This talk was given at a TEDx event using the TED conference format but independently organized by a local community. Learn more at http://ted.com/tedx.
- Video Language:
- English
- Team:
closed TED
- Project:
- TEDxTalks
- Duration:
- 18:17
![]() |
Peter van de Ven approved English subtitles for Honoring the stories of illness | Dr. Rita Charon | TEDxAtlanta | |
![]() |
Peter van de Ven accepted English subtitles for Honoring the stories of illness | Dr. Rita Charon | TEDxAtlanta | |
![]() |
Peter van de Ven edited English subtitles for Honoring the stories of illness | Dr. Rita Charon | TEDxAtlanta | |
![]() |
Retired user edited English subtitles for Honoring the stories of illness | Dr. Rita Charon | TEDxAtlanta | |
![]() |
Retired user edited English subtitles for Honoring the stories of illness | Dr. Rita Charon | TEDxAtlanta | |
![]() |
Retired user edited English subtitles for Honoring the stories of illness | Dr. Rita Charon | TEDxAtlanta | |
![]() |
Retired user edited English subtitles for Honoring the stories of illness | Dr. Rita Charon | TEDxAtlanta | |
![]() |
Retired user edited English subtitles for Honoring the stories of illness | Dr. Rita Charon | TEDxAtlanta |