How I defend the rule of law
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0:02 - 0:04Let me tell you a story
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0:04 - 0:07about a little girl named Naghma.
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0:07 - 0:09Naghma lived in a refugee camp
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0:09 - 0:11with her parents and her eight brothers and sisters.
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0:11 - 0:13Every morning, her father would wake up
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0:13 - 0:16in the hopes he'd be picked for construction work,
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0:16 - 0:19and on a good month he would earn 50 dollars.
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0:19 - 0:21The winter was very harsh,
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0:21 - 0:23and unfortunately, Naghma's brother died
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0:23 - 0:25and her mother became very ill.
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0:25 - 0:28In desperation, her father went to a neighbor
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0:28 - 0:30to borrow 2,500 dollars.
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0:30 - 0:32After several months of waiting,
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0:32 - 0:34the neighbor became very impatient,
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0:34 - 0:36and he demanded that he be paid back.
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0:36 - 0:39Unfortunately, Naghma's
father didn't have the money, -
0:39 - 0:42and so the two men agreed to a jirga.
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0:42 - 0:44So simply put, a jirga is a form of mediation
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0:44 - 0:48that's used in Afghanistan's
informal justice system. -
0:48 - 0:51It's usually presided over by religious leaders
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0:51 - 0:53and village elders,
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0:53 - 0:56and jirgas are often used in
rural countries like Afghanistan, -
0:56 - 0:58where there's deep-seated resentment
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0:58 - 1:00against the formal system.
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1:00 - 1:02At the jirga, the men sat together
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1:02 - 1:05and they decided that the
best way to satisfy the debt -
1:05 - 1:10would be if Naghma married
the neighbor's 21-year-old son. -
1:10 - 1:12She was six.
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1:12 - 1:15Now, stories like Naghma's unfortunately
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1:15 - 1:16are all too common,
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1:16 - 1:18and from the comforts of our home,
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1:18 - 1:20we may look at these stories as another
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1:20 - 1:22crushing blow to women's rights.
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1:22 - 1:24And if you watched Afghanistan on the news,
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1:24 - 1:28you may have this view that it's a failed state.
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1:28 - 1:32However, Afghanistan does have a legal system,
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1:32 - 1:36and while jirgas are built on
long-standing tribal customs, -
1:36 - 1:39even in jirgas, laws are supposed to be followed,
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1:39 - 1:41and it goes without saying
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1:41 - 1:44that giving a child to satisfy a debt
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1:44 - 1:48is not only grossly immoral, it's illegal.
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1:48 - 1:50In 2008, I went to Afghanistan
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1:50 - 1:52for a justice funded program,
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1:52 - 1:55and I went there originally
on this nine-month program -
1:55 - 1:57to train Afghan lawyers.
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1:57 - 1:59In that nine months, I went around the country
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1:59 - 2:02and I talked to hundreds of
people that were locked up, -
2:02 - 2:04and I talked to many businesses
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2:04 - 2:06that were also operating in Afghanistan.
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2:06 - 2:08And within these conversations,
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2:08 - 2:10I started hearing the connections
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2:10 - 2:12between the businesses and the people,
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2:12 - 2:14and how laws that were meant to protect them
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2:14 - 2:15were being underused,
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2:15 - 2:19while gross and illegal punitive
measures were overused. -
2:19 - 2:22And so this put me on a quest for justness,
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2:22 - 2:25and what justness means to me
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2:25 - 2:29is using laws for their intended purpose,
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2:29 - 2:31which is to protect.
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2:31 - 2:35The role of laws is to protect.
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2:35 - 2:38So as a result, I decided to
open up a private practice, -
2:38 - 2:41and I became the first foreigner to litigate
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2:41 - 2:43in Afghan courts.
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2:43 - 2:46Throughout this time, I also studied many laws,
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2:46 - 2:47I talked to many people,
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2:47 - 2:48I read up on many cases,
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2:48 - 2:51and I found that the lack of justness
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2:51 - 2:53is not just a problem in Afghanistan,
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2:53 - 2:55but it's a global problem.
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2:55 - 2:57And while I originally shied away from
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2:57 - 2:59representing human rights cases
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2:59 - 3:01because I was really concerned about how it would
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3:01 - 3:04affect me both professionally and personally,
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3:04 - 3:07I decided that the need for justness was so great
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3:07 - 3:08that I couldn't continue to ignore it.
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3:08 - 3:11And so I started representing people like Naghma
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3:11 - 3:13pro bono also.
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3:13 - 3:15Now, since I've been in Afghanistan
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3:15 - 3:17and since I've been an attorney for over 10 years,
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3:17 - 3:21I've represented from CEOs
of Fortune 500 companies -
3:21 - 3:23to ambassadors to little girls like Naghma,
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3:23 - 3:25and with much success.
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3:25 - 3:28And the reason for my success is very simple:
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3:28 - 3:30I work the system from the inside out
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3:30 - 3:31and use the laws in the ways
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3:31 - 3:34that they're intended to be used.
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3:34 - 3:36I find that
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3:36 - 3:40achieving justness in places like Afghanistan
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3:40 - 3:42is difficult, and there's three reasons.
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3:42 - 3:44The first reason is that simply put,
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3:44 - 3:47people are very uneducated as
to what their legal rights were, -
3:47 - 3:50and I find that this is a global problem.
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3:50 - 3:51The second issue
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3:51 - 3:55is that even with laws on the books,
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3:55 - 3:57it's often superseded or ignored
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3:57 - 3:59by tribal customs, like in the first jirga
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3:59 - 4:01that sold Naghma off.
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4:01 - 4:03And the third problem with achieving justness
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4:03 - 4:06is that even with good, existing laws on the books,
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4:06 - 4:09there aren't people or lawyers
that are willing to fight -
4:09 - 4:11for those laws.
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4:11 - 4:13And that's what I do: I use existing laws,
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4:13 - 4:15often unused laws,
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4:15 - 4:19and I work those to the benefits of my clients.
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4:19 - 4:21We all need to create a global culture
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4:21 - 4:23of human rights
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4:23 - 4:26and be investors in a global
human rights economy, -
4:26 - 4:28and by working in this mindset,
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4:28 - 4:30we can significantly improve justice globally.
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4:30 - 4:33Now let's get back to Naghma.
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4:33 - 4:35Several people heard about this story,
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4:35 - 4:37and so they contacted me because they wanted
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4:37 - 4:39to pay the $2,500 debt.
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4:39 - 4:41And it's not just that simple;
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4:41 - 4:43you can't just throw money at this problem
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4:43 - 4:44and think that it's going to disappear.
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4:44 - 4:47That's not how it works in Afghanistan.
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4:47 - 4:50So I told them I'd get involved,
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4:50 - 4:52but in order to get involved,
what needed to happen -
4:52 - 4:55is a second jirga needed to be called,
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4:55 - 4:57a jirga of appeals.
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4:57 - 5:00And so in order for that to happen,
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5:00 - 5:02we needed to get the village elders together,
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5:02 - 5:04we needed to get the tribal leaders together,
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5:04 - 5:06the religious leaders.
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5:06 - 5:08Naghma's father needed to agree,
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5:08 - 5:09the neighbor needed to agree,
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5:09 - 5:11and also his son needed to agree.
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5:11 - 5:15And I thought, if I'm going to
get involved in this thing, -
5:15 - 5:19then they also need to agree
that I preside over it. -
5:19 - 5:22So, after hours of talking
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5:22 - 5:23and tracking them down,
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5:23 - 5:26and about 30 cups of tea,
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5:26 - 5:28they finally agreed that we could sit down
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5:28 - 5:31for a second jirga, and we did.
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5:31 - 5:33And what was different about the second jirga
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5:33 - 5:36is this time, we put the law at the center of it,
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5:36 - 5:37and it was very important for me
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5:37 - 5:39that they all understood that Naghma
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5:39 - 5:41had a right to be protected.
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5:41 - 5:43And at the end of this jirga,
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5:43 - 5:45it was ordered by the judge
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5:45 - 5:49that the first decision was erased,
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5:49 - 5:52and that the $2,500 debt was satisfied,
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5:52 - 5:54and we all signed a written order
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5:54 - 5:55where all the men acknowledged
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5:55 - 5:58that what they did was illegal,
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5:58 - 6:02and if they did it again, that
they would go to prison. -
6:02 - 6:04Most —
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6:04 - 6:06(Applause)
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6:06 - 6:07Thanks.
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6:07 - 6:09And most importantly,
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6:09 - 6:11the engagement was terminated
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6:11 - 6:13and Naghma was free.
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6:13 - 6:16Protecting Naghma and her right to be free
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6:16 - 6:18protects us.
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6:18 - 6:22Now, with my job, there's above-average
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6:22 - 6:25amount of risks that are involved.
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6:25 - 6:27I've been temporarily detained.
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6:27 - 6:30I've been accused of running a brothel,
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6:30 - 6:32accused of being a spy.
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6:32 - 6:34I've had a grenade thrown at my office.
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6:34 - 6:37It didn't go off, though.
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6:37 - 6:39But I find that with my job,
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6:39 - 6:42that the rewards far outweigh the risks,
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6:42 - 6:44and as many risks as I take,
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6:44 - 6:46my clients take far greater risks,
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6:46 - 6:47because they have a lot more to lose
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6:47 - 6:49if their cases go unheard,
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6:49 - 6:52or worse, if they're penalized
for having me as their lawyer. -
6:52 - 6:54With every case that I take,
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6:54 - 6:57I realize that as much as
I'm standing behind my clients, -
6:57 - 6:59that they're also standing behind me,
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6:59 - 7:02and that's what keeps me going.
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7:02 - 7:04Law as a point of leverage
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7:04 - 7:07is crucial in protecting all of us.
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7:07 - 7:10Journalists are very vital in making sure
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7:10 - 7:13that that information is given to the public.
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7:13 - 7:15Too often, we receive information from journalists
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7:15 - 7:19but we forget how that information was given.
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7:19 - 7:22This picture is a picture of the
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7:22 - 7:24British press corps in Afghanistan.
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7:24 - 7:27It was taken a couple of years
ago by my friend David Gill. -
7:27 - 7:29According to the Committee to Protect Journalists,
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7:29 - 7:31since 2010, there have been
thousands of journalists -
7:31 - 7:33who have been threatened, injured,
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7:33 - 7:36killed, detained.
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7:36 - 7:38Too often, when we get this information,
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7:38 - 7:39we forget who it affects
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7:39 - 7:43or how that information is given to us.
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7:43 - 7:45What many journalists do,
both foreign and domestic, -
7:45 - 7:49is very remarkable, especially
in places like Afghanistan, -
7:49 - 7:51and it's important that we never forget that,
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7:51 - 7:52because what they're protecting
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7:52 - 7:55is not only our right to receive that information
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7:55 - 7:57but also the freedom of the press, which is vital
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7:57 - 7:59to a democratic society.
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7:59 - 8:03Matt Rosenberg is a journalist in Afghanistan.
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8:03 - 8:05He works for The New York Times,
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8:05 - 8:07and unfortunately, a few months ago
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8:07 - 8:09he wrote an article that displeased
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8:09 - 8:10people in the government.
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8:10 - 8:14As a result, he was temporarily detained
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8:14 - 8:18and he was illegally exiled out of the country.
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8:18 - 8:20I represent Matt,
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8:20 - 8:22and after dealing with the government,
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8:22 - 8:24I was able to get legal acknowledgment
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8:24 - 8:27that in fact he was illegally exiled,
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8:27 - 8:30and that freedom of the
press does exist in Afghanistan, -
8:30 - 8:32and there's consequences if that's not followed.
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8:32 - 8:34And I'm happy to say that
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8:34 - 8:36as of a few days ago,
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8:36 - 8:38the Afghan government
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8:38 - 8:40formally invited him back into the country
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8:40 - 8:43and they reversed their exile order of him.
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8:43 - 8:47(Applause)
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8:48 - 8:51If you censor one journalist,
then it intimidates others, -
8:51 - 8:53and soon nations are silenced.
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8:53 - 8:56It's important that we protect our journalists
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8:56 - 8:58and freedom of the press,
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8:58 - 9:00because that makes governments
more accountable to us -
9:00 - 9:02and more transparent.
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9:02 - 9:04Protecting journalists and our right
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9:04 - 9:08to receive information protects us.
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9:08 - 9:11Our world is changing. We live
in a different world now, -
9:11 - 9:13and what were once individual problems
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9:13 - 9:16are really now global problems for all of us.
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9:16 - 9:20Two weeks ago, Afghanistan had its first
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9:20 - 9:22democratic transfer of power
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9:22 - 9:25and elected president Ashraf Ghani, which is huge,
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9:25 - 9:27and I'm very optimistic about him,
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9:27 - 9:29and I'm hopeful that he'll give Afghanistan
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9:29 - 9:31the changes that it needs,
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9:31 - 9:33especially within the legal sector.
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9:33 - 9:35We live in a different world.
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9:35 - 9:37We live in a world where my
eight-year-old daughter -
9:37 - 9:40only knows a black president.
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9:40 - 9:43There's a great possibility that our next president
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9:43 - 9:44will be a woman,
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9:44 - 9:47and as she gets older, she may question,
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9:47 - 9:49can a white guy be president?
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9:49 - 9:51(Laughter)
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9:51 - 9:54(Applause)
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9:54 - 9:57Our world is changing, and
we need to change with it, -
9:57 - 9:59and what were once individual problems
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9:59 - 10:01are problems for all of us.
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10:01 - 10:03According to UNICEF,
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10:03 - 10:10there are currently over 280 million
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10:10 - 10:11boys and girls who are married
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10:11 - 10:13under the age of 15.
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10:13 - 10:15Two hundred and eighty million.
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10:15 - 10:18Child marriages prolong the vicious cycle
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10:18 - 10:22of poverty, poor health, lack of education.
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10:22 - 10:27At the age of 12, Sahar was married.
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10:27 - 10:29She was forced into this marriage
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10:29 - 10:30and sold by her brother.
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10:30 - 10:32When she went to her in-laws' house,
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10:32 - 10:35they forced her into prostitution.
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10:35 - 10:39Because she refused, she was tortured.
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10:39 - 10:43She was severely beaten with metal rods.
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10:43 - 10:46They burned her body.
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10:46 - 10:49They tied her up in a basement and starved her.
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10:49 - 10:54They used pliers to take out her fingernails.
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10:54 - 10:55At one point,
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10:55 - 10:59she managed to escape from this torture chamber
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10:59 - 11:01to a neighbor's house,
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11:01 - 11:04and when she went there, instead of protecting her,
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11:04 - 11:06they dragged her back
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11:06 - 11:08to her husband's house,
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11:08 - 11:12and she was tortured even worse.
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11:14 - 11:17When I met first Sahar, thankfully,
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11:17 - 11:18Women for Afghan Women
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11:18 - 11:22gave her a safe haven to go to.
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11:22 - 11:25As a lawyer, I try to be very strong
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11:25 - 11:26for all my clients,
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11:26 - 11:30because that's very important to me,
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11:30 - 11:33but seeing her,
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11:33 - 11:37how broken and very weak as she was,
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11:37 - 11:40was very difficult.
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11:40 - 11:44It took weeks for us to really get to
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11:44 - 11:47what happened to her
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11:47 - 11:49when she was in that house,
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11:49 - 11:52but finally she started opening up to me,
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11:52 - 11:54and when she opened up,
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11:54 - 11:56what I heard was
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11:56 - 11:58she didn't know what her rights were,
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11:58 - 12:00but she did know she had
a certain level of protection -
12:00 - 12:03by her government that failed her,
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12:03 - 12:05and so we were able to talk about
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12:05 - 12:07what her legal options were.
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12:07 - 12:09And so we decided to take this case
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12:09 - 12:11to the Supreme Court.
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12:11 - 12:13Now, this is extremely significant,
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12:13 - 12:15because this is the first time
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12:15 - 12:18that a victim of domestic violence in Afghanistan
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12:18 - 12:20was being represented by a lawyer,
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12:20 - 12:23a law that's been on the
books for years and years, -
12:23 - 12:26but until Sahar, had never been used.
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12:26 - 12:29In addition to this, we also decided
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12:29 - 12:30to sue for civil damages,
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12:30 - 12:33again using a law that's never been used,
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12:33 - 12:36but we used it for her case.
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12:36 - 12:39So there we were at the Supreme Court
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12:39 - 12:42arguing in front of 12 Afghan justices,
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12:42 - 12:44me as an American female lawyer,
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12:44 - 12:48and Sahar, a young woman
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12:48 - 12:53who when I met her couldn't
speak above a whisper. -
12:53 - 12:55She stood up,
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12:55 - 12:57she found her voice,
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12:57 - 13:00and my girl told them that she wanted justice,
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13:00 - 13:03and she got it.
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13:03 - 13:05At the end of it all, the court unanimously agreed
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13:05 - 13:10that her in-laws should be
arrested for what they did to her, -
13:10 - 13:12her fucking brother should also be arrested
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13:12 - 13:14for selling her —
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13:14 - 13:19(Applause) —
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13:19 - 13:21and they agreed that she did have a right
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13:21 - 13:23to civil compensation.
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13:23 - 13:26What Sahar has shown us is that we can attack
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13:26 - 13:29existing bad practices by using the laws
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13:29 - 13:31in the ways that they're intended to be used,
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13:31 - 13:34and by protecting Sahar,
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13:34 - 13:38we are protecting ourselves.
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13:38 - 13:39After having worked in Afghanistan
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13:39 - 13:41for over six years now,
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13:41 - 13:43a lot of my family and friends think
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13:43 - 13:46that what I do looks like this.
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13:46 - 13:48(Laughter)
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13:48 - 13:53But in all actuality, what I do looks like this.
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13:53 - 13:55Now, we can all do something.
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13:55 - 13:58I'm not saying we should all buy a
plane ticket and go to Afghanistan, -
13:58 - 14:01but we can all be contributors
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14:01 - 14:03to a global human rights economy.
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14:03 - 14:05We can create a culture of transparency
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14:05 - 14:06and accountability to the laws,
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14:06 - 14:09and make governments more accountable to us,
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14:09 - 14:12as we are to them.
-
14:12 - 14:14A few months ago, a South African lawyer
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14:14 - 14:16visited me in my office
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14:16 - 14:18and he said, "I wanted to meet you.
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14:18 - 14:22I wanted to see what a crazy person looked like."
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14:22 - 14:24The laws are ours,
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14:24 - 14:26and no matter what your ethnicity,
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14:26 - 14:28nationality, gender, race,
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14:28 - 14:31they belong to us,
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14:31 - 14:35and fighting for justice is not an act of insanity.
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14:35 - 14:38Businesses also need to get with the program.
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14:38 - 14:39A corporate investment in human rights
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14:39 - 14:41is a capital gain on your businesses,
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14:41 - 14:43and whether you're a business, an NGO,
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14:43 - 14:47or a private citizen, rule
of law benefits all of us. -
14:47 - 14:50And by working together with a concerted mindset,
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14:50 - 14:53through the people, public and private sector,
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14:53 - 14:56we can create a global human rights economy
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14:56 - 14:59and all become global investors in human rights.
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14:59 - 15:01And by doing this,
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15:01 - 15:03we can achieve justness together.
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15:03 - 15:06Thank you.
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15:06 - 15:10(Applause)
- Title:
- How I defend the rule of law
- Speaker:
- Kimberley Motley
- Description:
-
Every human deserves protection under their country’s laws — even when that law is forgotten or ignored. Sharing three cases from her international legal practice, Kimberley Motley, an American litigator practicing in Afghanistan and elsewhere, shows how a country’s own laws can bring both justice and “justness”: using the law for its intended purpose, to protect.
- Video Language:
- English
- Team:
closed TED
- Project:
- TEDTalks
- Duration:
- 15:26
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Morton Bast edited English subtitles for How I defend the rule of law | |
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Morton Bast approved English subtitles for How I defend the rule of law | |
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Morton Bast edited English subtitles for How I defend the rule of law | |
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Morton Bast edited English subtitles for How I defend the rule of law | |
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Morton Bast edited English subtitles for How I defend the rule of law | |
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Madeleine Aronson accepted English subtitles for How I defend the rule of law | |
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Madeleine Aronson edited English subtitles for How I defend the rule of law | |
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Madeleine Aronson edited English subtitles for How I defend the rule of law |