Not having to die, that's horrible!

Session of question and answer with Zen Master Thich Nhat Hanh, Thay, June 2014, Plum Village practice center, France.

(Half-bell)

(Bell)

If our true nature is
no birth and no death

it means that we are condemned
to live forever,

life after life.

So to me the teaching
of no birth and no death

is not a solution, it is a problem.

(Laughter)

I don't understand how is it possible

not to feel desperate and lost
with this teaching,

because this is
not only thinking but also feeling.

It does not help me and
it only creates more despair.

I prefer to die at the end of this life,

rather than to live again.

(Sister)
Dear Thay, dear Sangha,

Our friend is saying

that the teaching about our true nature
of no birth, and no death,

would appear to condemn us
to live forever.

This teaching has, for him,
not been a solution,

but a source of suffering,

not only intellectual suffering,

but a real feeling of fear and despair.

To him it seems much more appealing,

If he could die and be born again

if he could die.

(Laughter)

Because if we die,
life is short and really intense,

so we can enjoy it as much as possible.

But if we continue to live,

sooner or later we will be really bored.

(Laughter)

There are two types of people.

(Laughter)

Many of us want to live forever,

they are really afraid of dying.

And that is why in the history of mankind,

many people are seeking immortality.

In Taoism, they try to find all kinds
of herbs, medicines and chemicals,

in order to be immortal.

Immortality is what they seek,

and underneath
that kind of wish, of desire,

there is the fear of annihilation,

the fear of non-being.

We don't want to pass
from the realm of being,

into the realm of non-being,
it is very frightening.

You have to understand the mentality
of those who are seeking immortality,

who are afraid of dying.

They are suffering
with that kind of view.

They are seeking for immortality,

afraid of non-being.

On the other hand,

there are those
who are tired of life.

They get bored after 50, 70,
or maybe after 30 years.

They find that life is unbearable.

They are seeking non-being.

Some of them think
that to commit suicide,

is a way to end the suffering

and to pass from the realm
of being into non-being.

That kind of wish
is also based on a wrong view,

that there is something
you call non-being,

non-existence,

annihilation,

and you'd like to go there,
it is better if you don't suffer anymore,

it is no longer boring.

So you aspire to non-being,

to annihilation,

and that kind of desire is based
on all sorts of wrong views.

But the right view is

that birth and death,
life and death,

they always go together.

You cannot take one out of the other.

You are looking for death,

you try to leave life behind.

That is something impossible.

Because they always want to be together,
like the left and the right.

You cannot take the left out of the right,

and the right out of the left,

That is the law we discover
when looking deeply.

We see that this is a manifestation only.

The notion of left and right
is more in our heads,

in our thinking,

than in reality.

So all the notions like boring, not boring,

suffering and happiness,
being and non-being,

come more from
our mind of discrimination,

from our mind of mental constructions,
other than from reality.

We behave as if we know
what reality is.

We only have to deal with reality.

But the reality we think we know,

is only a construction of our mind.

Birth and death are also
a construction of your mind.

It is not reality.

We have learnt in this retreat

that birth, life and death,
birth and death,

they are notions more than reality.

Being and non-being
is a pair of opposites

that is there as the foundation
of the notions of birth and death.

Your question reveals

that you still believe

in a self, in a soul,

that remains the same always.

But in reality there is nothing like that.

There is nothing
that can remain the same

in two consecutive moments.

So who is bored?

Because the you of this moment

is no longer the same you
from the previous moment.

Because you haven't gone deep enough,

and touched the true nature of
no birth and no death,

no self and no other,
no being and no non-being.

Those who seek Nirvana,

they may think
that when you touch Nirvana,

you don't have to be reborn any more,

that you belong [now]
to the realm of non-being.

That is the most misleading
view about Nirvana,

that Nirvana is an eternal death.

For some people
eternal death is salvation.

Because then you don't have
to be reborn and to suffer.

That is a wrong view.

Many people - including some
Western scholars of Buddhism -

they believe that the aim of Buddhism
is to get eternal death:

complete eternal non-being.

But the Buddha
has many times denied that:

"Our aim is not to reach nothingness,

to reach annihilation."

He has said so many times that:

"I am not teaching annihilation.

My view is the kind of insight

that transcends both notions -
annihilation and permanence."

That is a pair of opposites.

Immortality is one extreme.

The immortal soul that can never die,

that is one extreme.

Annihilation is another extreme.

So right view is the kind of insight
that transcends both notions,

immortality

and non-being, annihilation.

Meditation is for removing
these kinds of notions.

There are many pairs of notions
we have to remove.

And when you are able
to remove these notions,

you have peace.

You don't worry anymore.

Especially you don't believe in a self,

that has to go through Samsara's
birth and death.

There is no birth and death.

There is no self
going through birth and death.

All of that are only notions.

When you get that kind of insight,
you are light,

you are no longer afraid.

You see that everything renews itself,
all the time.

Joy and happiness are possible,

the transformation
of suffering is possible.

You can help so many people
to suffer less.

Life has a meaning.

You don't tire yourself out.
You don't get bored.

Because know your life has a meaning,

your life is useful.

You can generate
the energy of compassion and joy,

in order to help heal the world.

There is no need
for a permanent self, a soul,

ot the view of impermanence,
the view of immortality,

or the view of annihilation,

because you are free
of all of these.

Nirvana is possible,

the extinction of that kind
of suffering and afflictions.

Like fear, anger and despair.

The extinction of these afflictions
is possible only,

when you can extinguish notions
like birth and death,

being and non-being,

So we can define Nirvana
in very clear terms:

the absence of notions,

and the absence of suffering born
on the basis of these notions.

(Laughter)

Very good! Good smile!

(Laughter)

Very good smile.

(Half-Bell)

(Bell)