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Fredy Kuenzler: Buffering sucks!

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    preroll music
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    Swiss German would be an option for me.
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    English, because you know the
    Swiss don't speak proper German.
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    My six year old digital native
    is telling people rather proud
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    that his Dad invented the
    fastest internet in Switzerland.
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    It’s called Fiber7.
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    applause
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    Thank you.
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    While we went to Greece for vacation, I
    was in a target conflict, because I had to
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    explain him why he couldn’t watch YouTube.
    I mean Greece, you know it’s maybe a bit
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    difficult, but as a matter of fact, here
    in Hamburg it’s not any better. I’m next
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    door in the hotel InterCity and they offer
    “free WiFi” with 256 kbit/s. If you want
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    5 Mbit Internet, you pay 8 Euros extra,
    per day. So this is where we are in 2015.
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    A few words about me: I’m married, one son
    as I said. He was born 2009. He was able
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    to unlock the iPhone with the age of 17
    months. No one showed him how. My early
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    connection with digital techniques was
    about 1978 when I was playing with these
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    chips 7400. Who knows them? Raise your
    hand. Few, thanks. Later on I did an
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    apprenticeship as a Fernmelde- und
    Elektronikapparatemonteur. And I started
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    to do IT business about 1991. And 1996
    – almost 20 years ago – we started with
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    Linux stuff. My first Linux was Suse 4.2.
    In the year 2000 we started with Init7
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    and later on I became president of the
    SwissIX association. This is an
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    association which runs a Internet
    Exchange. I had also my time in a startup
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    called Zattoo. It’s a network architecture
    OTT IP Television. Besides, I need a
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    hobby, so I’m also a politician for the
    Social Democrats in my city parliament,
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    already 8 years. Then I started with the
    other hobby, Fiber7 as you know. Oh
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    besides, I was also working in an internet
    expert group of the Social Democrats
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    Switzerland. The internet paper was
    adopted earlier this month by the national
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    Delegiertenversammlung. I don’t know what
    this is in English. So, Buffering sucks!
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    Ladies and Gentlemen, this talk is not
    about Deutsche Telekom. It’s not about
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    peering. It’s not about interconnection.
    It’s about these thousands and millions
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    of youngsters out there which want to
    watch YouTube in HD resolution without
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    buffering. So let’s quickly look at the
    reason why YouTube and all the other video
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    buffers. It’s usually lack of bandwidth.
    If you have a 2 Meg DSL or if you have
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    an InterCity free WiFi with 250 kilobits;
    so HD video is not possible. Sometimes
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    they have old PCs, so CPU power is an
    issue – these days no longer relevant.
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    WiFi quality sucks sometimes. This is
    rather an individual issue. And sometimes
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    we have an over-subscription of the shared
    node – mainly in cable networks. Streaming
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    source can be too far away. If you stream
    from the U.S., it doesn’t really go well.
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    That’s why we have so many CDN, Content
    Delivery Network systems, close to the
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    end users. Then adaptive streaming can be
    an advantage, but also disadvantage. You
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    cannot turn it off. When you watch HD and
    the connection sucks you just cannot keep
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    it on HD. It just drops to SD or lower
    resolution. It works, yes. But Claire
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    Underwood in low res is not so cool.
    Routing algorithm issues – sometimes it’s
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    a mismatch of client and server. If your
    client is assigned to the wrong CDN
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    server, then it’s also slow. Anycast
    routing is a trick sometimes. Last but not
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    least and the most important thing: It’s
    over-subscribed interconnections. We go
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    back quickly to the old days. The caller
    pays. When you call your mother-in-law
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    and you talk with her – well, she talks to
    you for 45 minutes and you say hello and
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    goodbye – you still pay the call.
    laughter
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    So with YouTube it’s not any different.
    You click YouTube and then YouTube talks
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    to you for hours maybe and then you say
    goodbye, basically. So is the broadband
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    customer calling the YouTube server or is
    it vice versa? Is the YouTube server
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    calling the broadband customer? Probably
    it’s the broadband customer who calls.
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    But still the data is flowing from the
    server to the client. But the client is
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    causing the traffic, because he is
    requesting the traffic. And if we look at
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    the structure of the internet, we have
    basically the end user to the right. We
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    have – here is the provider network and
    the end user is only connected to the
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    provider’s network. On the left side we
    have all the content in the internet.
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    We have the media and video and streaming
    and Torrent and you name it. But there is
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    always only one way going to the end user.
    It’s the yellow marked interconnection
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    points and there is no way around them.
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    This basically means, the provider
    can monopolize the end customer.
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    At least as long [as] he is
    connected or subscribed.
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    There is no alternative way.
    So this gives the provider
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    a position of power. On the other hand
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    these interconnection points used
    to be – for a long period of time –
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    so called Zero Settlement interconnections
    and they are basically the foundation of
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    the internet. Without Zero Settlement
    peering, without interconnection the
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    internet wouldn’t exist as we know it.
    The broadband provider, mainly the
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    incumbent, the ex-monopolist, or large
    cable operators, they tend to become
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    more and more restrictive to provide
    sufficient interconnection capacity.
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    Not upgrading interconnection to the
    requirements is very common these days
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    and it’s a passive aggressive
    behavior. So many providers
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    – to name a few: Deutsche
    Telekom – they just do nothing.
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    They just wait. And the end customers
    are suffering. Buffering is very common,
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    especially during prime-time.
    This is basically what the topic of…
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    …the main topic of this conference is:
    It’s a gated community. The provider
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    creates a gated community
    for his own end customers.
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    So as I said before: The data
    is flowing from the server,
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    from the video server to the end customer.
    It’s about 50 times more traffic
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    flowing to the client and the
    usual traffic ratio we have
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    for a broadband provider is 1:5
    or 1:10. So they’re pulling about
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    10 times more traffic
    towards the end customer.
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    Then we have this interconnection
    policy. So they don’t do anything.
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    As I said before, they just
    over-subscribe the existing
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    interconnection. And if you want to
    upgrade you have to have a traffic ratio
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    of about 1:1.5 to 1.3. But no video
    stream service can deliver traffic and
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    also maintain the traffic ratio. No
    content provider can. So all they can do
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    is: They can pay money to get upgraded.
    And if they don’t pay, data is stuck in
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    congestion and the clients are suffering,
    seeing the buffering sign. Large broadband
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    providers, such as the incumbents and
    cable providers, they want to get paid
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    twice. They are able to force the money
    due to the temporary monopoly – as I
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    explained. And they can ask money from the
    end customer and on the other hand also
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    from the content. This is called double-
    sided market. And if they don’t pay, the
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    content is not paying, this is what we
    see. And sometimes – as a side note – the
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    end customer pays, but still sees this.
    But IP interconnection would be cheap.
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    The business cost per broadband customer
    is just a few cents per month. And if the
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    provider would invest this, people would
    be happy. On top content providers are
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    easy to deal for peering or provide cache
    servers etc. So please talk to our
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    community fellows of Akamai, Apple,
    Amazon, Facebook, Google, Limelight,
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    Netflix. T is not Telekom, it’s Twitch.
    And Zattoo and a lot of others. So traffic
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    congestion is costly. I took a random
    Google search and was looking for how much
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    traffic is actually costing. And “Die
    Welt” showed the result: “Staus kosten
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    in jedem Haushalt 509€/Jahr”.
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    So my assumption was: If traffic
    jam is costing money, then
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    probably data traffic jam is also
    costing some money. But I figured that no
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    one was really exploring that field, yet.
    So I thought I’m going to do a little
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    “Milchbüechlirächnig”
    laughter
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    applause
    When I was a child, the milk man came
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    every morning and we just put our order
    into the Milchbüechli and he put the milk
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    into the box outside of the house. By the
    end of the month, we went to the shop
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    and paid our Milchbüechlirächnig. So this
    is my quick calculation: We have about 30
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    million broadband connections in Germany.
    I assume that everybody is waiting for one
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    minute accumulated while watching Netflix,
    YouTube, whatever. Probably this is far
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    too less. Who thinks one minute is fine,
    or – who thinks one minute is not enough?
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    Oh, ok, so let’s stick with one minute for
    the calculation. And I also assumed that
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    5€ / hour waiting is a good salary. If you
    think, 5€ is not enough, you can adapt the
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    calculation. This is called
    “Reservationslohn”. I have no clue what it
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    means, but this was on Wikipedia, for
    time when you take a job or refuse a job,
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    how much would be the value for the
    spare time. So this is my calculation:
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    If you wait one minute per day, this is
    6 hours per year. If you multiply this
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    with the 5€, every broadband
    customer would lose 30€ per year.
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    This sums up – with 30 million
    broadband subscribers –
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    to 900 million Euros per year. This is the
    economic damage in Germany per year.
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    applause
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    As we can assume that a large part of the
    buffering is caused by the insufficient
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    interconnection, especially during prime-
    time when everybody wants to watch
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    Netflix. This is also a result of
    the restrictive peering policy
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    of the incumbent and large cable operators
    and the ability for them to force
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    some extra money out of these double
    sided market power as I explained.
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    They probably would gain a few millions.
    I don’t have exact figures but I assume
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    it’s probably some 10..20..30
    millions per year, they could force
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    through this market power. On the
    other hand we have the damage
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    of 900 Million Euro per year and I mean
    this is like a – how do you say that? –
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    imbalance. So my conclusion in democratic
    countries like [in] Western Europe:
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    The economic gain of a multibillion
    company at the expense of
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    the general public is commonly not
    tolerated. The next question is basically
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    following the previous talk of Thomas:
    When will the regulators wake up and force
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    every market participant to cooperative
    peering and interconnection because the
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    end user is suffering, the public is
    suffering. Zero Settlement peering – as I
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    explained – is rather common. Of course
    the “Deutsche Telekom Lobby” would tell
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    otherwise, this is clear. The unbalanced
    traffic should no longer be used to refuse
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    peering; and also disputes about the
    interconnection should be resolved rather
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    quick. My case against Swisscom is taking
    years already and still no end and no
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    light at the end of the tunnel. Then, last
    but not least we should have broadband
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    providers, must be committed to the
    interests of their own end user customer
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    base. As I said, Telekom managed to get
    paid twice because of their market power;
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    and other Telecoms, such as Telecom
    Hungaria or Swisscom, they use Deutsche
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    Telekom and their market power as a
    leverage to force their also restrictive
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    peering policy; and the regulators so far
    don’t do much. I quote here Marc Furrer,
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    this is the chief of ComCom Switzerland:
    “Nur ein fauler Regulator ist ein guter
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    Regulator”.
    laughing
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    Thank you! Questions?
    applause
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    Herald: Okay, thank you Fredy; and let’s
    have Thomas back up on stage and we’re
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    gonna take questions, please. There is
    actually more than the mics I said before,
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    there is 2 right up on the top and there
    is 3 in each aisle. So if you please
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    line up if you have any questions and ask;
    and please speak into the mic, we need
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    your questions on tape, and those who
    are leaving now: Do it silently please.
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    Okay, first question, over there!
    Q: I have a question for Thomas:
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    From your talk it sounds like you did a
    lot of work. Can you tell us a little bit
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    about the budgeting, that goes
    into having a team like that?
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    T: Yeah, so, SaveTheInternet
    is a coalition of 12 NGOs
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    which have all their independent budget.
    There is no fixed budget for the work
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    that we have been doing as a whole.
    All of them have transparency reports.
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    So I can not really speak for the
    budget of EDRI or accessnow.
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    The organization where I am
    based in Austria got a grant from the
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    media democracy foundation from 10.000€
    and money from Netflix, 10.000€ also; and
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    we used both for development and paying
    for the Faxes. Because in the second run
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    of the Fax tool the provider that it
    was referring to was no longer paying.
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    Otherwise the funding in general about
    Digital Rights in Europe is awfully low.
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    So if you compare it to the U.S. where you
    had double-digit millions going into the
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    lobbying it is ridiculous what resources
    we have here in Europe; and we are
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    thinking about making a donation tool for
    the new SafeTheInternet; but again that’s
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    complicated because you have 12 NGOs
    with very different activity scales. Like
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    some of them do a lot, others not so much.
    So how would you divide the money?
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    These are unresolved questions, that we
    are working on right now. If you wanna
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    support us with independent
    funding, then just donate to the
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    individual organizations.
    EDRI, Initiative für Netzfreiheit,
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    are probably the ones I would mention
    most, because they have done
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    most of the work; accessnow as well,
    but they generally have a lot of funding
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    from the U.S., so I don’t think
    they need it that much.
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    Q: But to summarize, I saw a picture of
    your team. I saw all the work you did.
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    You did that for 20.000€?
    T: No. I never got a Cent. I was paid by
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    EDRI for 4 months when
    I was working in Brussels
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    within BEREC for the first reading;
    but otherwise this was mostly free
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    time. I got my expenses covered for travel
    but other than that I am doing this in my
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    spare time. Also now unemployed…
    applause
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    I work for Data Protection NGOs, so they
    are allowing me to do a lot of my stuff
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    also for Net Neutrality.
    Herald: We’re all elephants. We do it
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    for peanuts. Okay, No.1 go ahead!
    Mic 1: Yeah, hello! Hi Thomas, thanks a
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    lot for your work, that’s great. I have a
    question about the involvement of the
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    Business Angels and the companies:
    What is the reason, what do you think why
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    they came so late into this discussion in
    Germany. What probably can we do to change
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    this in the future because I think that’s
    a… they are great allies in this fight.
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    Thomas: That’s… you’re asking exactly the
    right question. Sadly in Europe you have
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    no organized voice for Startups
    or for SMEs when it comes
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    to Digital Rights issues; and you would
    have to work with them to get them
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    involved in the debate. They were really
    late to the party and then, again,
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    mostly activated through
    U.S. networks. So the
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    connection between the civil rights scene
    here and the business scene, particularly
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    the one which is organized in Brussels
    with European umbrellas is very weak. So
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    everything you can do there to
    strengthen this connection would be great.
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    But I don’t have those business contacts.
    I got a few people involved in the first
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    reading stuff but we definitely need more
    people that act as multipliers to get more
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    companies involved, particularly now when
    we enter into a new phase with the BEREC
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    guidelines. We no longer need the loud
    arguments of many people, we need more the
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    arguments from the business side, from the
    universities, from those people who run
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    networks. These arguments are better
    suited to make a difference with the
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    regulators.
    Fredy: And to add: Don’t underestimate
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    the influence of the lobbies, of the big
    names, the Telecoms and the liberty
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    globals, they have a lot of money and they
    try to influence the politicians as good
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    as they can. They do a good
    job from their perspective.
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    Thomas: You can be sure that the Telecoms
    will have people for all 28 regulators,
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    now continuously lobbying for an upcoming
    9 months. The question is: Who is in our
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    team?
    Herald: Okay. Thank you. Is there a
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    question from the internet?
    Signal Angel: Yes, there is a question,
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    it is: Whether peering providers should
    differentiate between virtual private
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    network traffic and public traffic and
    where is the line between internal network
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    and the public internet?
    Fredy: What should I say… this is
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    difficult question, I mean… Basically, if
    you all commit your backbone then
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    there is always plenty of traffic… or
    plenty of capacity. So there is… there
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    shouldn’t be any differentiation. Networks
    should provide enough capacity and then
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    we’re good. A common argument from the
    big names: “Oh we are investing millions
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    and millions and millions in broadband
    expansion” but unfortunately they stop
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    investing right at the end of their own
    backbone so they don’t invest any money
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    beyond their little percentage of the
    total investment for their interconnections.
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    Herald: Okay, there is another question
    at No.1?
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    Mic 1: I have a question about buffering:
    So the most of the content in the web is
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    delivered over TCP/IP and… will changing
    the media to something like UDP which has
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    lower overhead over TCP/IP;
    will that change the situation?
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    Fredy: Not really.
    Mic 1: No?
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    Fredy: No. It won’t help. I mean packet
    loss is packet loss regardless whether it
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    is TCP or UDP.
    Herald: Okay, that was a short answer. Next
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    question please. Please talk into the mic.
    Mic: So when I came here, this year,
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    I had the impression that at digital
    subscriber line connections not only
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    bandwidth is bad but also the ping gets up
    way high. Of course – I mean – at home I
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    have Fiber7 nowadays so I just thought
    I got spoiled by fiber connections but I
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    noticed that ping times went up from,
    well, couple of years ago 60-80ms from
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    sites in your neighborhood more or less
    to nowadays 80-160ms. Where is the
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    problem there?
    Fredy: Well the latency is directly
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    related if the provider is not delivering
    enough bandwidth, then ping goes up
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    that’s a normal behavior of TCP.
    Mic: So the problem is also at the
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    interconnection sites?
    Fredy. Probably yes, most likely, you
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    can find out if you do traceroute, then
    you see where… well, there is a long
  • 26:28 - 26:35
    presentation how to interpret traceroute
    properly. If you look for “Nanog traceroute”
  • 26:35 - 26:41
    you should find this lecture. But that
    would probably give some indication.
  • 26:41 - 26:45
    Mic: Alright, thank you.
    Herald: Thank you. Next question from
  • 26:45 - 26:49
    the internet, just in between and
    then we’ll go back, go ahead.
  • 26:49 - 26:54
    Signal Angel: “Is Netflix a gated
    community by itself?” and “Are you sure
  • 26:54 - 26:58
    that their interest will align with the
    movement of net neutrality in the long
  • 26:58 - 27:04
    run?”
    Fredy: We should differentiate between
  • 27:04 - 27:11
    Netflix content and Netflix interconnections.
    So for the content I probably
  • 27:11 - 27:16
    would say: Yes, but I am not the expert.
    This would be then layer 7 in the OSI
  • 27:16 - 27:23
    model. I am talking here on layer 3, this
    is content agnostic. Netflix, they are one
  • 27:23 - 27:30
    of the good guys because they really help
    to deliver the packets. I know them
  • 27:30 - 27:37
    personally a few fellows from the peering
    community. They are the good guys,
  • 27:37 - 27:41
    definitely.
    Thomas: Just also to answer this question
  • 27:41 - 27:46
    for the European debate, Netflix was one
    of the good guys in the U.S. and they also
  • 27:46 - 27:50
    supported of course the European movement.
    But again, they are so big that I wouldn’t
  • 27:50 - 27:55
    really trust them as an ally because they
    could also pay, they could also survive in
  • 27:55 - 28:01
    a double sided market and for them in the
    growing emerging markets like Europe where
  • 28:01 - 28:06
    they just have started, it’s probably
    risky to allow for this new type of anti
  • 28:06 - 28:13
    net neutrality business models; but in the
    consumer side where net neutrality is seen
  • 28:13 - 28:19
    as an end user issue I think so far their
    interests mostly align. On interconnection
  • 28:19 - 28:22
    they have their own interests of course.
    Fredy: So I can say: Netflix is
  • 28:22 - 28:28
    definitely paying Deutsche Telekom
    otherwise no single Deutsche Telekom user
  • 28:28 - 28:33
    would be able to watch any
    movie on Netflix! So! For sure!
  • 28:33 - 28:38
    Herald: Okay, we are short for time
    so please, last 2 questions. No.2
  • 28:38 - 28:41
    first. Keep it short please.
    Talk into the mic.
  • 28:41 - 28:45
    Mic 2: Regarding the first talk: What is
    the… do you have an explanation for the
  • 28:45 - 28:52
    behavior of the European Commission
    in behave of the net neutrality debate?
  • 28:52 - 28:59
    I especially think of the behavior of
    Günther Oettinger who repeatedly said his
  • 28:59 - 29:07
    ridiculous lie of a “net neutrality kills”
    and he repeated it again and again
  • 29:07 - 29:15
    even if there was no reason behind
    it. And do you have an explanation for
  • 29:15 - 29:18
    this behavior of the Commission
    and Junker and this.
  • 29:18 - 29:22
    Thomas: For that argument, we had this
    great YouTube video “net neutrality kills”.
  • 29:22 - 29:26
    If you search it you will find it or
    “Netzneutralität tötet” in German. That
  • 29:26 - 29:30
    deconstructs this argument of Oettinger.
    But in general, and you can go back to the
  • 29:30 - 29:35
    previous commissioner Neelie Kroes that I
    showed. Our sole suspicion is that the deal
  • 29:35 - 29:38
    was that the telecom industry has to give
    up a little bit of their profits when it
  • 29:38 - 29:43
    comes to Roaming, but on the other
    side they gain a lot of future profits on
  • 29:43 - 29:47
    the abolishment of net neutrality and so it
    was like “Okay, we need a Populist argument",
  • 29:47 - 29:54
    Neelie Kroes also needs a quick win at the
    end of her career and this was again like
  • 29:54 - 29:59
    you take a little bit there and put it
    there for the Telecoms industry. And
  • 29:59 - 30:04
    Oettinger is a big industrial favor guy,
    he is always for big business.
  • 30:04 - 30:08
    Herald: Okay, short for time,
    last question, No.1.
  • 30:08 - 30:13
    Mic 1: Hi, so what strategy should an ISP
    use when their capacity on their backbones
  • 30:13 - 30:19
    is fully loaded? Like first-in-first-out
    or what is your idea about that, because
  • 30:19 - 30:23
    the capacity is limited, so when there is
    so much traffic that everything is stuck.
  • 30:23 - 30:25
    Fredy: Upgrade!
    Thomas: Yes, invest in the network!
  • 30:25 - 30:31
    Fredy: I mean, sorry, a 10G port is now
    some 3000€ including optic and cross
  • 30:31 - 30:39
    connect. It’s not that much. Upgrade!
    Herald: Okay, thank you!
  • 30:39 - 30:42
    applause
  • 30:42 - 30:48
    postroll music
  • 30:48 - 30:52
    Subtitles created by c3subtitles.de
    in the year 2016. Join and help us!
Title:
Fredy Kuenzler: Buffering sucks!
Description:

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Video Language:
English
Duration:
30:53

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