[Script Info]
Title: 
[Events]
Format: Layer, Start, End, Style, Name, MarginL, MarginR, MarginV, Effect, Text
Dialogue: 0,0:00:00.00,0:00:10.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,{\i1}preroll music{\i0}
Dialogue: 0,0:00:10.27,0:00:13.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Swiss German would be an option for me.
Dialogue: 0,0:00:13.24,0:00:19.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,English, because you know the\NSwiss don't speak proper German.
Dialogue: 0,0:00:19.66,0:00:30.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,My six year old digital native\Nis telling people rather proud
Dialogue: 0,0:00:30.44,0:00:34.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that his Dad invented the\Nfastest internet in Switzerland.
Dialogue: 0,0:00:34.39,0:00:36.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It’s called Fiber7.
Dialogue: 0,0:00:36.12,0:00:38.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,{\i1}applause{\i0}
Dialogue: 0,0:00:38.50,0:00:41.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Thank you.
Dialogue: 0,0:00:41.22,0:00:46.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,While we went to Greece for vacation, I\Nwas in a target conflict, because I had to
Dialogue: 0,0:00:46.74,0:00:55.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,explain him why he couldn’t watch YouTube.\NI mean Greece, you know it’s maybe a bit
Dialogue: 0,0:00:55.50,0:01:02.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,difficult, but as a matter of fact, here\Nin Hamburg it’s not any better. I’m next
Dialogue: 0,0:01:02.14,0:01:12.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,door in the hotel InterCity and they offer\N“free WiFi” with 256 kbit/s. If you want
Dialogue: 0,0:01:12.66,0:01:22.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,5 Mbit Internet, you pay 8 Euros extra,\Nper day. So this is where we are in 2015.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:22.90,0:01:30.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,A few words about me: I’m married, one son\Nas I said. He was born 2009. He was able
Dialogue: 0,0:01:30.37,0:01:42.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to unlock the iPhone with the age of 17\Nmonths. No one showed him how. My early
Dialogue: 0,0:01:42.83,0:01:48.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,connection with digital techniques was\Nabout 1978 when I was playing with these
Dialogue: 0,0:01:48.70,0:01:58.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,chips 7400. Who knows them? Raise your\Nhand. Few, thanks. Later on I did an
Dialogue: 0,0:01:58.14,0:02:05.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,apprenticeship as a Fernmelde- und\NElektronikapparatemonteur. And I started
Dialogue: 0,0:02:05.94,0:02:12.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to do IT business about 1991. And 1996\N– almost 20 years ago – we started with
Dialogue: 0,0:02:12.71,0:02:22.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Linux stuff. My first Linux was Suse 4.2.\NIn the year 2000 we started with Init7
Dialogue: 0,0:02:22.81,0:02:29.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and later on I became president of the\NSwissIX association. This is an
Dialogue: 0,0:02:29.46,0:02:34.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,association which runs a Internet\NExchange. I had also my time in a startup
Dialogue: 0,0:02:34.03,0:02:41.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,called Zattoo. It’s a network architecture\NOTT IP Television. Besides, I need a
Dialogue: 0,0:02:41.92,0:02:47.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,hobby, so I’m also a politician for the\NSocial Democrats in my city parliament,
Dialogue: 0,0:02:47.98,0:02:55.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,already 8 years. Then I started with the\Nother hobby, Fiber7 as you know. Oh
Dialogue: 0,0:02:55.80,0:03:01.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,besides, I was also working in an internet\Nexpert group of the Social Democrats
Dialogue: 0,0:03:01.05,0:03:12.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Switzerland. The internet paper was\Nadopted earlier this month by the national
Dialogue: 0,0:03:12.42,0:03:18.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Delegiertenversammlung. I don’t know what\Nthis is in English. So, Buffering sucks!
Dialogue: 0,0:03:18.30,0:03:23.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Ladies and Gentlemen, this talk is not\Nabout Deutsche Telekom. It’s not about
Dialogue: 0,0:03:23.60,0:03:29.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,peering. It’s not about interconnection.\NIt’s about these thousands and millions
Dialogue: 0,0:03:29.52,0:03:36.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of youngsters out there which want to\Nwatch YouTube in HD resolution without
Dialogue: 0,0:03:36.28,0:03:44.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,buffering. So let’s quickly look at the\Nreason why YouTube and all the other video
Dialogue: 0,0:03:44.34,0:03:51.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,buffers. It’s usually lack of bandwidth.\NIf you have a 2 Meg DSL or if you have
Dialogue: 0,0:03:51.12,0:04:02.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,an InterCity free WiFi with 250 kilobits;\Nso HD video is not possible. Sometimes
Dialogue: 0,0:04:02.12,0:04:08.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,they have old PCs, so CPU power is an\Nissue – these days no longer relevant.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:08.68,0:04:14.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,WiFi quality sucks sometimes. This is\Nrather an individual issue. And sometimes
Dialogue: 0,0:04:14.04,0:04:23.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we have an over-subscription of the shared\Nnode – mainly in cable networks. Streaming
Dialogue: 0,0:04:23.11,0:04:29.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,source can be too far away. If you stream\Nfrom the U.S., it doesn’t really go well.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:29.92,0:04:36.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That’s why we have so many CDN, Content\NDelivery Network systems, close to the
Dialogue: 0,0:04:36.12,0:04:43.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,end users. Then adaptive streaming can be\Nan advantage, but also disadvantage. You
Dialogue: 0,0:04:43.62,0:04:50.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,cannot turn it off. When you watch HD and\Nthe connection sucks you just cannot keep
Dialogue: 0,0:04:50.92,0:04:59.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it on HD. It just drops to SD or lower\Nresolution. It works, yes. But Claire
Dialogue: 0,0:04:59.67,0:05:06.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Underwood in low res is not so cool.\NRouting algorithm issues – sometimes it’s
Dialogue: 0,0:05:06.08,0:05:10.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a mismatch of client and server. If your\Nclient is assigned to the wrong CDN
Dialogue: 0,0:05:10.83,0:05:17.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,server, then it’s also slow. Anycast\Nrouting is a trick sometimes. Last but not
Dialogue: 0,0:05:17.52,0:05:26.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,least and the most important thing: It’s\Nover-subscribed interconnections. We go
Dialogue: 0,0:05:26.22,0:05:32.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,back quickly to the old days. The caller\Npays. When you call your mother-in-law
Dialogue: 0,0:05:32.57,0:05:39.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and you talk with her – well, she talks to\Nyou for 45 minutes and you say hello and
Dialogue: 0,0:05:39.24,0:05:46.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,goodbye – you still pay the call.\N{\i1}laughter{\i0}
Dialogue: 0,0:05:46.25,0:05:53.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So with YouTube it’s not any different.\NYou click YouTube and then YouTube talks
Dialogue: 0,0:05:53.17,0:06:00.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to you for hours maybe and then you say\Ngoodbye, basically. So is the broadband
Dialogue: 0,0:06:00.86,0:06:06.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,customer calling the YouTube server or is\Nit vice versa? Is the YouTube server
Dialogue: 0,0:06:06.43,0:06:13.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,calling the broadband customer? Probably\Nit’s the broadband customer who calls.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:13.24,0:06:19.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But still the data is flowing from the\Nserver to the client. But the client is
Dialogue: 0,0:06:19.32,0:06:24.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,causing the traffic, because he is\Nrequesting the traffic. And if we look at
Dialogue: 0,0:06:24.32,0:06:41.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the structure of the internet, we have\Nbasically the end user to the right. We
Dialogue: 0,0:06:41.98,0:06:48.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,have – here is the provider network and\Nthe end user is only connected to the
Dialogue: 0,0:06:48.74,0:06:53.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,provider’s network. On the left side we\Nhave all the content in the internet.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:53.49,0:07:03.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We have the media and video and streaming\Nand Torrent and you name it. But there is
Dialogue: 0,0:07:03.08,0:07:12.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,always only one way going to the end user.\NIt’s the yellow marked interconnection
Dialogue: 0,0:07:12.04,0:07:18.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,points and there is no way around them.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:18.21,0:07:26.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,This basically means, the provider\Ncan monopolize the end customer.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:26.28,0:07:32.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,At least as long [as] he is\Nconnected or subscribed.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:32.02,0:07:39.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There is no alternative way.\NSo this gives the provider
Dialogue: 0,0:07:39.14,0:07:44.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a position of power. On the other hand
Dialogue: 0,0:07:44.82,0:07:50.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,these interconnection points used\Nto be – for a long period of time –
Dialogue: 0,0:07:50.25,0:07:55.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,so called Zero Settlement interconnections\Nand they are basically the foundation of
Dialogue: 0,0:07:55.96,0:08:01.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the internet. Without Zero Settlement\Npeering, without interconnection the
Dialogue: 0,0:08:01.30,0:08:08.100,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,internet wouldn’t exist as we know it.\NThe broadband provider, mainly the
Dialogue: 0,0:08:08.100,0:08:14.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,incumbent, the ex-monopolist, or large\Ncable operators, they tend to become
Dialogue: 0,0:08:14.52,0:08:21.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,more and more restrictive to provide\Nsufficient interconnection capacity.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:21.45,0:08:28.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Not upgrading interconnection to the\Nrequirements is very common these days
Dialogue: 0,0:08:28.27,0:08:36.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and it’s a passive aggressive\Nbehavior. So many providers
Dialogue: 0,0:08:36.17,0:08:41.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,– to name a few: Deutsche\NTelekom – they just do nothing.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:41.79,0:08:47.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,They just wait. And the end customers\Nare suffering. Buffering is very common,
Dialogue: 0,0:08:47.17,0:08:53.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,especially during prime-time.\NThis is basically what the topic of…
Dialogue: 0,0:08:53.71,0:08:58.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,…the main topic of this conference is:\NIt’s a gated community. The provider
Dialogue: 0,0:08:58.10,0:09:06.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,creates a gated community\Nfor his own end customers.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:06.44,0:09:12.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So as I said before: The data\Nis flowing from the server,
Dialogue: 0,0:09:12.54,0:09:17.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,from the video server to the end customer.\NIt’s about 50 times more traffic
Dialogue: 0,0:09:17.79,0:09:25.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,flowing to the client and the\Nusual traffic ratio we have
Dialogue: 0,0:09:25.29,0:09:29.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for a broadband provider is 1:5\Nor 1:10. So they’re pulling about
Dialogue: 0,0:09:29.94,0:09:35.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,10 times more traffic\Ntowards the end customer.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:35.46,0:09:41.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Then we have this interconnection\Npolicy. So they don’t do anything.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:41.63,0:09:47.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,As I said before, they just\Nover-subscribe the existing
Dialogue: 0,0:09:47.71,0:09:54.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,interconnection. And if you want to\Nupgrade you have to have a traffic ratio
Dialogue: 0,0:09:54.30,0:10:03.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of about 1:1.5 to 1.3. But no video\Nstream service can deliver traffic and
Dialogue: 0,0:10:03.62,0:10:11.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,also maintain the traffic ratio. No\Ncontent provider can. So all they can do
Dialogue: 0,0:10:11.49,0:10:17.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is: They can pay money to get upgraded.\NAnd if they don’t pay, data is stuck in
Dialogue: 0,0:10:17.07,0:10:28.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,congestion and the clients are suffering,\Nseeing the buffering sign. Large broadband
Dialogue: 0,0:10:28.67,0:10:33.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,providers, such as the incumbents and\Ncable providers, they want to get paid
Dialogue: 0,0:10:33.44,0:10:41.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,twice. They are able to force the money\Ndue to the temporary monopoly – as I
Dialogue: 0,0:10:41.44,0:10:46.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,explained. And they can ask money from the\Nend customer and on the other hand also
Dialogue: 0,0:10:46.72,0:10:53.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,from the content. This is called double-\Nsided market. And if they don’t pay, the
Dialogue: 0,0:10:53.84,0:10:59.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,content is not paying, this is what we\Nsee. And sometimes – as a side note – the
Dialogue: 0,0:10:59.45,0:11:09.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,end customer pays, but still sees this.\NBut IP interconnection would be cheap.
Dialogue: 0,0:11:09.14,0:11:14.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The business cost per broadband customer\Nis just a few cents per month. And if the
Dialogue: 0,0:11:14.80,0:11:21.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,provider would invest this, people would\Nbe happy. On top content providers are
Dialogue: 0,0:11:21.35,0:11:29.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,easy to deal for peering or provide cache\Nservers etc. So please talk to our
Dialogue: 0,0:11:29.43,0:11:36.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,community fellows of Akamai, Apple,\NAmazon, Facebook, Google, Limelight,
Dialogue: 0,0:11:36.92,0:11:46.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Netflix. T is not Telekom, it’s Twitch.\NAnd Zattoo and a lot of others. So traffic
Dialogue: 0,0:11:46.23,0:11:55.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,congestion is costly. I took a random\NGoogle search and was looking for how much
Dialogue: 0,0:11:55.32,0:12:02.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,traffic is actually costing. And “Die\NWelt” showed the result: “Staus kosten
Dialogue: 0,0:12:02.02,0:12:09.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in jedem Haushalt 509€/Jahr”.
Dialogue: 0,0:12:09.16,0:12:14.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So my assumption was: If traffic\Njam is costing money, then
Dialogue: 0,0:12:14.93,0:12:21.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,probably data traffic jam is also\Ncosting some money. But I figured that no
Dialogue: 0,0:12:21.21,0:12:30.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,one was really exploring that field, yet.\NSo I thought I’m going to do a little
Dialogue: 0,0:12:30.59,0:12:35.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,“Milchbüechlirächnig”\N{\i1}laughter{\i0}
Dialogue: 0,0:12:35.45,0:12:43.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,{\i1}applause{\i0}\NWhen I was a child, the milk man came
Dialogue: 0,0:12:43.19,0:12:49.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,every morning and we just put our order\Ninto the Milchbüechli and he put the milk
Dialogue: 0,0:12:49.62,0:12:55.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,into the box outside of the house. By the\Nend of the month, we went to the shop
Dialogue: 0,0:12:55.13,0:13:03.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and paid our Milchbüechlirächnig. So this\Nis my quick calculation: We have about 30
Dialogue: 0,0:13:03.83,0:13:09.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,million broadband connections in Germany.\NI assume that everybody is waiting for one
Dialogue: 0,0:13:09.60,0:13:15.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,minute accumulated while watching Netflix,\NYouTube, whatever. Probably this is far
Dialogue: 0,0:13:15.83,0:13:22.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,too less. Who thinks one minute is fine,\Nor – who thinks one minute is not enough?
Dialogue: 0,0:13:22.61,0:13:30.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Oh, ok, so let’s stick with one minute for\Nthe calculation. And I also assumed that
Dialogue: 0,0:13:30.76,0:13:41.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,5€ / hour waiting is a good salary. If you\Nthink, 5€ is not enough, you can adapt the
Dialogue: 0,0:13:41.47,0:13:46.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,calculation. This is called\N“Reservationslohn”. I have no clue what it
Dialogue: 0,0:13:46.35,0:13:53.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,means, but this was on Wikipedia, for\Ntime when you take a job or refuse a job,
Dialogue: 0,0:13:53.07,0:13:59.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,how much would be the value for the\Nspare time. So this is my calculation:
Dialogue: 0,0:13:59.80,0:14:07.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,If you wait one minute per day, this is\N6 hours per year. If you multiply this
Dialogue: 0,0:14:07.16,0:14:18.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,with the 5€, every broadband\Ncustomer would lose 30€ per year.
Dialogue: 0,0:14:18.87,0:14:24.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,This sums up – with 30 million\Nbroadband subscribers –
Dialogue: 0,0:14:24.14,0:14:34.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to 900 million Euros per year. This is the\Neconomic damage in Germany per year.
Dialogue: 0,0:14:34.27,0:14:40.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,{\i1}applause{\i0}
Dialogue: 0,0:14:40.48,0:14:46.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,As we can assume that a large part of the\Nbuffering is caused by the insufficient
Dialogue: 0,0:14:46.89,0:14:50.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,interconnection, especially during prime-\Ntime when everybody wants to watch
Dialogue: 0,0:14:50.47,0:14:56.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Netflix. This is also a result of\Nthe restrictive peering policy
Dialogue: 0,0:14:56.25,0:15:02.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of the incumbent and large cable operators\Nand the ability for them to force
Dialogue: 0,0:15:02.80,0:15:08.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,some extra money out of these double\Nsided market power as I explained.
Dialogue: 0,0:15:08.92,0:15:14.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,They probably would gain a few millions.\NI don’t have exact figures but I assume
Dialogue: 0,0:15:14.06,0:15:21.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it’s probably some 10..20..30\Nmillions per year, they could force
Dialogue: 0,0:15:21.03,0:15:26.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,through this market power. On the\Nother hand we have the damage
Dialogue: 0,0:15:26.55,0:15:34.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of 900 Million Euro per year and I mean\Nthis is like a – how do you say that? –
Dialogue: 0,0:15:34.58,0:15:41.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,imbalance. So my conclusion in democratic\Ncountries like [in] Western Europe:
Dialogue: 0,0:15:41.53,0:15:46.15,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The economic gain of a multibillion\Ncompany at the expense of
Dialogue: 0,0:15:46.15,0:15:53.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the general public is commonly not\Ntolerated. The next question is basically
Dialogue: 0,0:15:53.74,0:16:00.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,following the previous talk of Thomas:\NWhen will the regulators wake up and force
Dialogue: 0,0:16:00.31,0:16:05.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,every market participant to cooperative\Npeering and interconnection because the
Dialogue: 0,0:16:05.42,0:16:10.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,end user is suffering, the public is\Nsuffering. Zero Settlement peering – as I
Dialogue: 0,0:16:10.87,0:16:17.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,explained – is rather common. Of course\Nthe “Deutsche Telekom Lobby” would tell
Dialogue: 0,0:16:17.93,0:16:24.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,otherwise, this is clear. The unbalanced\Ntraffic should no longer be used to refuse
Dialogue: 0,0:16:24.42,0:16:31.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,peering; and also disputes about the\Ninterconnection should be resolved rather
Dialogue: 0,0:16:31.37,0:16:39.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,quick. My case against Swisscom is taking\Nyears already and still no end and no
Dialogue: 0,0:16:39.14,0:16:44.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,light at the end of the tunnel. Then, last\Nbut not least we should have broadband
Dialogue: 0,0:16:44.45,0:16:53.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,providers, must be committed to the\Ninterests of their own end user customer
Dialogue: 0,0:16:53.08,0:17:03.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,base. As I said, Telekom managed to get\Npaid twice because of their market power;
Dialogue: 0,0:17:03.53,0:17:09.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and other Telecoms, such as Telecom\NHungaria or Swisscom, they use Deutsche
Dialogue: 0,0:17:09.95,0:17:16.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Telekom and their market power as a\Nleverage to force their also restrictive
Dialogue: 0,0:17:16.96,0:17:22.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,peering policy; and the regulators so far\Ndon’t do much. I quote here Marc Furrer,
Dialogue: 0,0:17:22.44,0:17:28.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,this is the chief of ComCom Switzerland:\N“Nur ein fauler Regulator ist ein guter
Dialogue: 0,0:17:28.78,0:17:31.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Regulator”.\N{\i1}laughing{\i0}
Dialogue: 0,0:17:31.50,0:17:41.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Thank you! Questions?\N{\i1}applause{\i0}
Dialogue: 0,0:17:41.00,0:17:47.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Herald: Okay, thank you Fredy; and let’s\Nhave Thomas back up on stage and we’re
Dialogue: 0,0:17:47.10,0:17:53.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,gonna take questions, please. There is\Nactually more than the mics I said before,
Dialogue: 0,0:17:53.88,0:17:59.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,there is 2 right up on the top and there\Nis 3 in each aisle. So if you please
Dialogue: 0,0:17:59.69,0:18:05.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,line up if you have any questions and ask;\Nand please speak into the mic, we need
Dialogue: 0,0:18:05.92,0:18:12.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,your questions on tape, and those who\Nare leaving now: Do it silently please.
Dialogue: 0,0:18:12.48,0:18:23.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Okay, first question, over there!\NQ: I have a question for Thomas:
Dialogue: 0,0:18:23.05,0:18:26.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,From your talk it sounds like you did a\Nlot of work. Can you tell us a little bit
Dialogue: 0,0:18:26.90,0:18:31.01,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,about the budgeting, that goes\Ninto having a team like that?
Dialogue: 0,0:18:31.01,0:18:36.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,T: Yeah, so, SaveTheInternet\Nis a coalition of 12 NGOs
Dialogue: 0,0:18:36.76,0:18:42.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,which have all their independent budget.\NThere is no fixed budget for the work
Dialogue: 0,0:18:42.31,0:18:48.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that we have been doing as a whole.\NAll of them have transparency reports.
Dialogue: 0,0:18:48.25,0:18:52.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So I can not really speak for the\Nbudget of EDRI or accessnow.
Dialogue: 0,0:18:52.34,0:18:58.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The organization where I am\Nbased in Austria got a grant from the
Dialogue: 0,0:18:58.08,0:19:06.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,media democracy foundation from 10.000€\Nand money from Netflix, 10.000€ also; and
Dialogue: 0,0:19:06.90,0:19:10.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we used both for development and paying\Nfor the Faxes. Because in the second run
Dialogue: 0,0:19:10.94,0:19:17.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of the Fax tool the provider that it\Nwas referring to was no longer paying.
Dialogue: 0,0:19:17.48,0:19:23.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Otherwise the funding in general about\NDigital Rights in Europe is awfully low.
Dialogue: 0,0:19:23.38,0:19:28.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So if you compare it to the U.S. where you\Nhad double-digit millions going into the
Dialogue: 0,0:19:28.65,0:19:35.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,lobbying it is ridiculous what resources\Nwe have here in Europe; and we are
Dialogue: 0,0:19:35.61,0:19:40.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,thinking about making a donation tool for\Nthe new SafeTheInternet; but again that’s
Dialogue: 0,0:19:40.84,0:19:47.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,complicated because you have 12 NGOs\Nwith very different activity scales. Like
Dialogue: 0,0:19:47.67,0:19:51.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,some of them do a lot, others not so much.\NSo how would you divide the money?
Dialogue: 0,0:19:51.56,0:19:54.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,These are unresolved questions, that we\Nare working on right now. If you wanna
Dialogue: 0,0:19:54.96,0:19:58.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,support us with independent\Nfunding, then just donate to the
Dialogue: 0,0:19:58.19,0:20:04.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,individual organizations.\NEDRI, Initiative für Netzfreiheit,
Dialogue: 0,0:20:04.81,0:20:08.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,are probably the ones I would mention\Nmost, because they have done
Dialogue: 0,0:20:08.31,0:20:11.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,most of the work; accessnow as well,\Nbut they generally have a lot of funding
Dialogue: 0,0:20:11.99,0:20:14.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,from the U.S., so I don’t think\Nthey need it that much.
Dialogue: 0,0:20:14.31,0:20:18.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Q: But to summarize, I saw a picture of\Nyour team. I saw all the work you did.
Dialogue: 0,0:20:18.39,0:20:24.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You did that for 20.000€?\NT: No. I never got a Cent. I was paid by
Dialogue: 0,0:20:24.40,0:20:26.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,EDRI for 4 months when\NI was working in Brussels
Dialogue: 0,0:20:26.66,0:20:30.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,within BEREC for the first reading;\Nbut otherwise this was mostly free
Dialogue: 0,0:20:30.06,0:20:35.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,time. I got my expenses covered for travel\Nbut other than that I am doing this in my
Dialogue: 0,0:20:35.52,0:20:46.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,spare time. Also now unemployed…\N{\i1}applause{\i0}
Dialogue: 0,0:20:46.05,0:20:50.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I work for Data Protection NGOs, so they\Nare allowing me to do a lot of my stuff
Dialogue: 0,0:20:50.76,0:20:54.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,also for Net Neutrality.\NHerald: We’re all elephants. We do it
Dialogue: 0,0:20:54.29,0:21:00.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for peanuts. Okay, No.1 go ahead!\NMic 1: Yeah, hello! Hi Thomas, thanks a
Dialogue: 0,0:21:00.43,0:21:07.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,lot for your work, that’s great. I have a\Nquestion about the involvement of the
Dialogue: 0,0:21:07.43,0:21:13.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Business Angels and the companies:\NWhat is the reason, what do you think why
Dialogue: 0,0:21:13.31,0:21:20.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,they came so late into this discussion in\NGermany. What probably can we do to change
Dialogue: 0,0:21:20.98,0:21:27.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,this in the future because I think that’s\Na… they are great allies in this fight.
Dialogue: 0,0:21:27.29,0:21:32.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Thomas: That’s… you’re asking exactly the\Nright question. Sadly in Europe you have
Dialogue: 0,0:21:32.02,0:21:36.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,no organized voice for Startups\Nor for SMEs when it comes
Dialogue: 0,0:21:36.90,0:21:42.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to Digital Rights issues; and you would\Nhave to work with them to get them
Dialogue: 0,0:21:42.05,0:21:45.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,involved in the debate. They were really\Nlate to the party and then, again,
Dialogue: 0,0:21:45.46,0:21:50.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,mostly activated through\NU.S. networks. So the
Dialogue: 0,0:21:50.39,0:21:55.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,connection between the civil rights scene\Nhere and the business scene, particularly
Dialogue: 0,0:21:55.67,0:22:01.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the one which is organized in Brussels\Nwith European umbrellas is very weak. So
Dialogue: 0,0:22:01.40,0:22:07.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,everything you can do there to\Nstrengthen this connection would be great.
Dialogue: 0,0:22:07.23,0:22:10.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But I don’t have those business contacts.\NI got a few people involved in the first
Dialogue: 0,0:22:10.89,0:22:15.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,reading stuff but we definitely need more\Npeople that act as multipliers to get more
Dialogue: 0,0:22:15.95,0:22:21.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,companies involved, particularly now when\Nwe enter into a new phase with the BEREC
Dialogue: 0,0:22:21.73,0:22:30.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,guidelines. We no longer need the loud\Narguments of many people, we need more the
Dialogue: 0,0:22:30.06,0:22:33.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,arguments from the business side, from the\Nuniversities, from those people who run
Dialogue: 0,0:22:33.74,0:22:38.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,networks. These arguments are better\Nsuited to make a difference with the
Dialogue: 0,0:22:38.02,0:22:43.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,regulators.\NFredy: And to add: Don’t underestimate
Dialogue: 0,0:22:43.92,0:22:49.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the influence of the lobbies, of the big\Nnames, the Telecoms and the liberty
Dialogue: 0,0:22:49.18,0:22:56.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,globals, they have a lot of money and they\Ntry to influence the politicians as good
Dialogue: 0,0:22:56.27,0:23:00.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,as they can. They do a good\Njob from their perspective.
Dialogue: 0,0:23:00.38,0:23:07.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Thomas: You can be sure that the Telecoms\Nwill have people for all 28 regulators,
Dialogue: 0,0:23:07.26,0:23:11.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,now continuously lobbying for an upcoming\N9 months. The question is: Who is in our
Dialogue: 0,0:23:11.49,0:23:17.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,team?\NHerald: Okay. Thank you. Is there a
Dialogue: 0,0:23:17.70,0:23:22.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,question from the internet?\NSignal Angel: Yes, there is a question,
Dialogue: 0,0:23:22.72,0:23:27.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it is: Whether peering providers should\Ndifferentiate between virtual private
Dialogue: 0,0:23:27.98,0:23:34.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,network traffic and public traffic and\Nwhere is the line between internal network
Dialogue: 0,0:23:34.80,0:23:41.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and the public internet?\NFredy: What should I say… this is
Dialogue: 0,0:23:41.28,0:23:49.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,difficult question, I mean… Basically, if\Nyou all commit your backbone then
Dialogue: 0,0:23:49.91,0:23:55.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,there is always plenty of traffic… or\Nplenty of capacity. So there is… there
Dialogue: 0,0:23:55.65,0:24:01.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,shouldn’t be any differentiation. Networks\Nshould provide enough capacity and then
Dialogue: 0,0:24:01.74,0:24:12.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we’re good. A common argument from the\Nbig names: “Oh we are investing millions
Dialogue: 0,0:24:12.16,0:24:18.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and millions and millions in broadband\Nexpansion” but unfortunately they stop
Dialogue: 0,0:24:18.51,0:24:24.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,investing right at the end of their own\Nbackbone so they don’t invest any money
Dialogue: 0,0:24:24.09,0:24:33.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,beyond their little percentage of the\Ntotal investment for their interconnections.
Dialogue: 0,0:24:33.81,0:24:37.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Herald: Okay, there is another question\Nat No.1?
Dialogue: 0,0:24:37.55,0:24:42.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Mic 1: I have a question about buffering:\NSo the most of the content in the web is
Dialogue: 0,0:24:42.83,0:24:50.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,delivered over TCP/IP and… will changing\Nthe media to something like UDP which has
Dialogue: 0,0:24:50.48,0:24:56.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,lower overhead over TCP/IP;\Nwill that change the situation?
Dialogue: 0,0:24:56.28,0:24:59.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Fredy: Not really.\NMic 1: No?
Dialogue: 0,0:24:59.04,0:25:04.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Fredy: No. It won’t help. I mean packet\Nloss is packet loss regardless whether it
Dialogue: 0,0:25:04.88,0:25:14.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is TCP or UDP.\NHerald: Okay, that was a short answer. Next
Dialogue: 0,0:25:14.75,0:25:18.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,question please. Please talk into the mic.\NMic: So when I came here, this year,
Dialogue: 0,0:25:18.96,0:25:24.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I had the impression that at digital\Nsubscriber line connections not only
Dialogue: 0,0:25:24.95,0:25:34.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,bandwidth is bad but also the ping gets up\Nway high. Of course – I mean – at home I
Dialogue: 0,0:25:34.25,0:25:40.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,have Fiber7 nowadays so I just thought\NI got spoiled by fiber connections but I
Dialogue: 0,0:25:40.83,0:25:49.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,noticed that ping times went up from,\Nwell, couple of years ago 60-80ms from
Dialogue: 0,0:25:49.08,0:25:56.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,sites in your neighborhood more or less\Nto nowadays 80-160ms. Where is the
Dialogue: 0,0:25:56.33,0:26:00.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,problem there?\NFredy: Well the latency is directly
Dialogue: 0,0:26:00.73,0:26:07.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,related if the provider is not delivering\Nenough bandwidth, then ping goes up
Dialogue: 0,0:26:07.88,0:26:15.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that’s a normal behavior of TCP.\NMic: So the problem is also at the
Dialogue: 0,0:26:15.61,0:26:19.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,interconnection sites?\NFredy. Probably yes, most likely, you
Dialogue: 0,0:26:19.78,0:26:28.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,can find out if you do traceroute, then\Nyou see where… well, there is a long
Dialogue: 0,0:26:28.13,0:26:34.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,presentation how to interpret traceroute\Nproperly. If you look for “Nanog traceroute”
Dialogue: 0,0:26:34.52,0:26:40.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you should find this lecture. But that\Nwould probably give some indication.
Dialogue: 0,0:26:40.98,0:26:44.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Mic: Alright, thank you.\NHerald: Thank you. Next question from
Dialogue: 0,0:26:44.77,0:26:48.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the internet, just in between and\Nthen we’ll go back, go ahead.
Dialogue: 0,0:26:48.57,0:26:53.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Signal Angel: “Is Netflix a gated\Ncommunity by itself?” and “Are you sure
Dialogue: 0,0:26:53.57,0:26:58.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that their interest will align with the\Nmovement of net neutrality in the long
Dialogue: 0,0:26:58.13,0:27:04.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,run?”\NFredy: We should differentiate between
Dialogue: 0,0:27:04.28,0:27:10.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Netflix content and Netflix interconnections.\NSo for the content I probably
Dialogue: 0,0:27:10.99,0:27:16.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,would say: Yes, but I am not the expert.\NThis would be then layer 7 in the OSI
Dialogue: 0,0:27:16.31,0:27:23.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,model. I am talking here on layer 3, this\Nis content agnostic. Netflix, they are one
Dialogue: 0,0:27:23.22,0:27:30.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of the good guys because they really help\Nto deliver the packets. I know them
Dialogue: 0,0:27:30.35,0:27:37.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,personally a few fellows from the peering\Ncommunity. They are the good guys,
Dialogue: 0,0:27:37.37,0:27:41.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,definitely.\NThomas: Just also to answer this question
Dialogue: 0,0:27:41.17,0:27:45.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for the European debate, Netflix was one\Nof the good guys in the U.S. and they also
Dialogue: 0,0:27:45.82,0:27:50.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,supported of course the European movement.\NBut again, they are so big that I wouldn’t
Dialogue: 0,0:27:50.05,0:27:55.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,really trust them as an ally because they\Ncould also pay, they could also survive in
Dialogue: 0,0:27:55.16,0:28:01.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a double sided market and for them in the\Ngrowing emerging markets like Europe where
Dialogue: 0,0:28:01.29,0:28:06.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,they just have started, it’s probably\Nrisky to allow for this new type of anti
Dialogue: 0,0:28:06.42,0:28:13.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,net neutrality business models; but in the\Nconsumer side where net neutrality is seen
Dialogue: 0,0:28:13.00,0:28:18.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,as an end user issue I think so far their\Ninterests mostly align. On interconnection
Dialogue: 0,0:28:18.51,0:28:22.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,they have their own interests of course.\NFredy: So I can say: Netflix is
Dialogue: 0,0:28:22.41,0:28:28.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,definitely paying Deutsche Telekom\Notherwise no single Deutsche Telekom user
Dialogue: 0,0:28:28.39,0:28:33.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,would be able to watch any\Nmovie on Netflix! So! For sure!
Dialogue: 0,0:28:33.19,0:28:38.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Herald: Okay, we are short for time\Nso please, last 2 questions. No.2
Dialogue: 0,0:28:38.06,0:28:40.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,first. Keep it short please.\NTalk into the mic.
Dialogue: 0,0:28:40.51,0:28:45.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Mic 2: Regarding the first talk: What is\Nthe… do you have an explanation for the
Dialogue: 0,0:28:45.45,0:28:51.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,behavior of the European Commission\Nin behave of the net neutrality debate?
Dialogue: 0,0:28:51.64,0:28:59.15,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I especially think of the behavior of\NGünther Oettinger who repeatedly said his
Dialogue: 0,0:28:59.15,0:29:06.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,ridiculous lie of a “net neutrality kills”\Nand he repeated it again and again
Dialogue: 0,0:29:06.59,0:29:14.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,even if there was no reason behind\Nit. And do you have an explanation for
Dialogue: 0,0:29:14.58,0:29:18.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,this behavior of the Commission\Nand Junker and this.
Dialogue: 0,0:29:18.10,0:29:21.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Thomas: For that argument, we had this\Ngreat YouTube video “net neutrality kills”.
Dialogue: 0,0:29:21.69,0:29:26.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,If you search it you will find it or\N“Netzneutralität tötet” in German. That
Dialogue: 0,0:29:26.05,0:29:30.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,deconstructs this argument of Oettinger.\NBut in general, and you can go back to the
Dialogue: 0,0:29:30.04,0:29:34.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,previous commissioner Neelie Kroes that I\Nshowed. Our sole suspicion is that the deal
Dialogue: 0,0:29:34.67,0:29:38.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,was that the telecom industry has to give\Nup a little bit of their profits when it
Dialogue: 0,0:29:38.50,0:29:42.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,comes to Roaming, but on the other\Nside they gain a lot of future profits on
Dialogue: 0,0:29:42.92,0:29:47.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the abolishment of net neutrality and so it\Nwas like “Okay, we need a Populist argument",
Dialogue: 0,0:29:47.08,0:29:54.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Neelie Kroes also needs a quick win at the\Nend of her career and this was again like
Dialogue: 0,0:29:54.09,0:29:58.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you take a little bit there and put it\Nthere for the Telecoms industry. And
Dialogue: 0,0:29:58.54,0:30:04.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Oettinger is a big industrial favor guy,\Nhe is always for big business.
Dialogue: 0,0:30:04.34,0:30:07.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Herald: Okay, short for time,\Nlast question, No.1.
Dialogue: 0,0:30:07.86,0:30:12.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Mic 1: Hi, so what strategy should an ISP\Nuse when their capacity on their backbones
Dialogue: 0,0:30:12.89,0:30:18.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is fully loaded? Like first-in-first-out\Nor what is your idea about that, because
Dialogue: 0,0:30:18.88,0:30:22.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the capacity is limited, so when there is\Nso much traffic that everything is stuck.
Dialogue: 0,0:30:22.54,0:30:25.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Fredy: Upgrade!\NThomas: Yes, invest in the network!
Dialogue: 0,0:30:25.09,0:30:31.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Fredy: I mean, sorry, a 10G port is now\Nsome 3000€ including optic and cross
Dialogue: 0,0:30:31.22,0:30:39.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,connect. It’s not that much. Upgrade!\NHerald: Okay, thank you!
Dialogue: 0,0:30:39.35,0:30:41.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,{\i1}applause{\i0}
Dialogue: 0,0:30:41.70,0:30:48.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,{\i1}postroll music{\i0}
Dialogue: 0,0:30:48.11,0:30:52.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,{\i1}Subtitles created by c3subtitles.de\Nin the year 2016. Join and help us!{\i0}