-
(upbeat music)
-
- Well, first, I just wanna
give my condolences to you
-
and say, I'm sorry for your losses
-
and thank you for your work.
-
And I wanna know how are you right now?
-
- Thank you, that's very kind.
-
I think I'm okay, no
actually, that's not true.
-
I think 'cause one of the
things I'm learning from grief
-
is to be, how important I think it is
-
to be honest about grief.
-
I am not okay,
-
but I also don't think I should be okay
-
because something just too catastrophic
-
things happen in my life too
soon, one after the other.
-
But I'm also, I have good days
-
and I have days that are not good at all.
-
And I'm just learning that
grief is such a complicated,
-
multifaceted, difficult thing.
-
I was very close to my parents
-
and when my father died last June,
-
it's interesting 'cause
I just wouldn't, nothing,
-
I would never have imagined
that my mother would die
-
a few months later on his birthday.
-
It just, and so I think
it's sort of that idea
-
of having two types of grief to deal with
-
making peace with one to an
extent and not with the other.
-
- Right, you wrote that.
-
"How does your heart break twice?"
-
Yeah, how are you, through the grief,
-
how are you keeping their memories alive
-
for not just you but for your daughter?
-
- Yeah, so I feel so
grateful that she knew them
-
and that they knew her,
and so she's almost six,
-
and so she has very clear memories
-
and I talk about them
with her all the time.
-
And I just often will say to her,
-
what does grandma call you?
-
What does grandpa call me?
-
And we had names for her.
-
My mother called her Asama,
which means beautiful child
-
and my father called her
Isboma, which is good child.
-
And so we do that a lot.
-
And so what I want to do is to just try
-
and make it sort of organic and ordinary,
-
that they're always there as
part of the story of her life.
-
And she still has clues that, she says,
-
"Well, grandma got me this."
-
And she said the other day,
-
"Mama, my underwear is too small now,
-
"that's the one that grandma got me."
-
And so even that I really just treasure
-
and I keep wanting these conversations
-
to continue to happen.
-
- I wanna talk about
the title of your book.
-
Why did you name it "Notes on Grief?"
-
Is there any, what did you mean by notes?
-
- I think I kind of
wanted to have a sense of,
-
well, first of all, something incomplete
-
and something, I guess
maybe kind of ongoing,
-
but because when I started writing it,
-
it's not as though I had
a particular structure
-
or that I knew what the
hell I was doing really,
-
I was just trying to find language,
-
trying to make sense
of what I was feeling,
-
and I think calling it "Notes on Grief"
-
was sort of, I think
it was my way of trying
-
to just, I guess, capture the feeling
-
of something unfinished,
-
in some ways even unformed.
-
So in the way that I have
a habit of taking notes
-
about everything, about the world.
-
So I used to do that in a little notebook,
-
but since the advent of the iPhone,
-
I now do it on my notes app
-
and it's quite random,
I mean, just whatever,
-
observations, thoughts, ideas.
-
And I think maybe that's kind of the sense
-
I wanted to get with this book as well,
-
but it's not at all a finished thing.
-
As in flat, I don't think
grief is ever finished.
-
- Do you think that you will
write more about your mother?
-
- That's an interesting
question, I've wanted too
-
and I haven't been able to, yeah,
-
But I think because
writing is what I always,
-
writing is what I used to try
and make sense of my life.
-
So I'm sure that I will at some point.
-
- One of the things about the book
-
is you just really did not
care what people thought
-
of how you were grieving.
-
You were angry, sometimes
you were biting when people
-
and understandably, so,
that's not a judgy statement,
-
but, oh, he's in a better place.
-
Oh, you have these...
-
All the platitudes that
people say or think
-
that you wanna hear
-
and you weren't always
polite in those situations.
-
And I wonder how friends and
family have received the book
-
that now maybe they have a better window
-
into how you grieve.
-
- It's interesting about
just thinking of politeness
-
in the face of grief.
-
I don't think that one, I don't think,
-
I think and I say this of course,
-
only just learning it
now because I'm in it,
-
because the thing is that I'm as guilty
-
as really everyone else
-
in kind of the result into platitudes
-
in the face of somebody's pain.
-
And so I kind of understand how
people then say things like,
-
oh, he's in a better place
-
or well, he's an angel watching over you.
-
But in the midst of my pain,
I found it just bearable.
-
And I also, in some ways
found it too simple,
-
too easy, too deep.
-
And so I've just get so angry,
-
except I think, in a better
and how would you know that?
-
Now, I'm kind of learning that.
-
I mean, and even at the time,
-
even in the middle of my anger,
-
I knew that people meant well,
-
people, I think death is such a...
-
It's such an unknowable,
such an unknown thing,
-
and it's so final,
-
that I think we don't know how
to deal with it in general.
-
I think it's just really difficult
-
because in some ways to be alive
is to be in denial of death
-
in some ways.
-
And so I think there's
something about us human beings
-
that we just, it's difficult to deal with.
-
And I think that's why
we result to platitudes
-
and we result to euphemisms
and talking about death,
-
which increasingly I
also don't like at all.
-
So, I find myself feeling
better when I just say died,
-
they didn't pass on to
a different existence,
-
I don't, they died.
-
And I think it's also my way
of trying to force myself
-
to acknowledge this
thing that has happened.
-
That's still difficult
for me to acknowledge.
-
The people close to
me, I think understand.
-
I think, you also learn while grieving.
-
You learn about love you.
-
You learn about the people who love you.
-
And sometimes you're surprised
-
that the people who you
think love you, maybe not,
-
and the people who you
don't know care about you
-
actually really do.
-
It's also been a very
clarifying period for me.
-
And so the people close
to me kind of gets it,
-
and I think reading the book,
-
I had a few friends who
sent me messages to say,
-
"oh, I'm so sorry,
-
"I know I'm guilty of saying this thing
-
"that you called out."
-
And that made me feel bad,
-
because it wasn't about calling out,
-
because I just want it to be true
-
about what I was feeling.
-
And so I will then write back and say,
-
no, I know you meant well.
-
It annoyed me, it absent me,
-
but it's not really a personal,
-
it's not like an indictment of the person.
-
If anything, it's an
indictment of this larger way
-
that we deal with grief and death
-
and mourning in our culture.
-
- It didn't feel like a call-out,
-
it felt like you were being
honest and maybe articulating
-
what other people feel,
-
I had found on my own that
it's just good to say,
-
I'm sorry for your loss.
-
And also give room for silence
-
and not telling people
it's going to be okay.
-
- Yeah.
-
- And I think that it's uncomfortable
-
for the other person
to watch someone grieve
-
because the instinct is to fix,
-
instead of letting the person cry, vent,
-
sitting there in silence.
-
- I really love that about the silence,
-
giving room for silence.
-
I think it's so true, but it's also,
-
in some ways, like you said,
-
it's, I think silence can
be very uncomfortable.
-
So I get that people want
to fill up that silence.
-
But sometimes, I just
want to hear I'm sorry,
-
and I just, and that's fine,
-
that's because nothing can fix this.
-
- Did you find that you started writing,
-
so you wouldn't forget
memories of your father?
-
And I'm curious about
the timing of the book
-
because it was published pretty quickly.
-
- I started writing it really,
-
I think maybe days, I'm not
even sure how accurate I am
-
because the whole period
is just a blur now.
-
I mean, I kind of remember very clearly
-
hearing that my father had died.
-
My brother saying that he's gone.
-
And I really don't remember much else.
-
I think maybe days after, I
really just, it's all a blur,
-
but I think I started in maybe like,
-
I don't know a week maybe, two
weeks, after my father died.
-
And it was really, I wrote,
-
I started writing
because that's what I do.
-
Because I always turn to
writing to make sense of things.
-
And so I think it just
seemed really natural
-
that I would start writing.
-
But I think sort of
the decision to publish
-
was something I made a
bit later in the process,
-
because I think when I started writing it,
-
I was thinking, maybe I'll send it
-
to my brothers and my sisters,
-
because obviously it's
something that's shared.
-
But at some point I thought,
-
I actually want this to be published.
-
And I think that's where
this idea of wanting to,
-
it's like memorializing my father,
-
just refusing to let go.
-
And also just wanting to tell the world,
-
I wanted to tell the world
that I had been so blessed
-
to have been raised by this
just lovely, decent man.
-
- How is death treated in Nigeria?
-
And I also wonder if people
have that same uncomfortability
-
that we're talking about,
-
are there any cultural differences
-
between the U.S and Nigeria?
-
- Yeah, I mean, certainly,
I think in the U.S,
-
I think there's more
discomfort about death, right?
-
I think, and in some ways
it's that interesting thing
-
about American culture
that I sometimes wonder
-
if it's also linked to
that kind of youth worship.
-
In the American culture is so geared
-
towards the youthfulness
and youth and the young,
-
and I'm sure you can tell from my tone,
-
it's not something I necessarily admire.
-
And in like, well, I should
talk about Igbo culture
-
because obviously Nigeria.
-
So Igbo culture, which is mine,
-
age is revered, age is still,
-
even though obviously
everyone's become westernized
-
and everyone, but I think
age is still revered.
-
And so because of that,
-
I don't think there's
as much for discomfort
-
with just acknowledging death
-
as the reason the U.S.
-
And I think both can be,
-
I mean, I had trouble with both well,
-
especially in the early
months after my father died,
-
because I sometimes feel that
Nigerian friends or relatives
-
or even acquaintances could be a bit too,
-
maybe a bit too much of a fact.
-
I had a huge fight with
a friend of families
-
who no, actually, no, it
wasn't my dad, it was my mom,
-
who a few days after my mother died
-
and I was just completely broken,
-
I just would not see anyone,
-
just, and he sends me a message to say,
-
important people are coming to your house,
-
you must come out and see them.
-
And I remember thinking,
my mother just died,
-
I do not have to do anything,
-
but that to me is a very
Nigerian and this guy meant well,
-
so his point was, you have the important,
-
government dignitaries
coming, you must come out,
-
because that's a proper thing to do.
-
And it's that kind of in Nigeria
-
when your mother is gone,
-
it's happened, so you might as
well come out and be a host,
-
which I just did not get
from American friends
-
who were sending good wishes,
-
I think, but also I felt
that American friends
-
were often more tentative.
-
And so even that sometimes made me think,
-
just say my mother died,
-
don't say, I mean, this kind
of resulting to euphemism
-
and not saying it directly, yeah.
-
- What's the response you've
gotten from other readers,
-
people who aren't in your
family or acquaintance circle?
-
- I should be very moved
-
because honestly, one of the things I hope
-
that this book would do
-
would be to help other people grieving.
-
Because I found it very comforting to read
-
other people's honest accounts of grief.
-
And I took a lot of, I don't
know, strains from them.
-
I went through a period
-
of just wanting to read
everything about grief
-
and then went through a
period of not wanting to read
-
one word about death or grief.
-
And when I was reading about
grief, I found that the more,
-
just really honest stark
accounts, just really comforted me
-
I just, I felt I'm not alone.
-
And I think that's the
most comfort one can get.
-
So I've actually been really happy to hear
-
from people who've said
that it helped them
-
and actually a friend of a friend,
-
so someone I don't knows, sent
a message through my friend
-
to say that she lost
her parents years ago,
-
but reading this book
suddenly gave her language
-
to articulate how she had felt,
-
and she hadn't been able to do that.
-
And I was very moved by that.
-
- It probably gave people,
a lot of people permission
-
that maybe they didn't
think that they had,
-
I have a five-year-old daughter also.
-
And do you feel like the industry
-
or other outsiders have
changed their view of you
-
now that you're a mother,
-
changed their view of you as a writer?
-
In terms of expectations,
-
or I'm almost reluctant
to ask this question
-
because it gets so gendered with mothers
-
in talking about motherhood
and their careers and writing,
-
but if there's been any shift
-
in how you have been perceived or treated.
-
- I think that's a really
interesting question.
-
I feel like these are things
we should talk about, Moore,
-
because mother who does
affect women's lives
-
and I don't see where we should protect.
-
And obviously I also understand
-
what the potential drawbacks are
-
because it's kind of it's,
-
this is the thing that often
is used to hold women back
-
when they want to work outside the home.
-
And then, so sometimes one
wants to just ignore it
-
so that it doesn't become a
bigger problem than it is.
-
But my view is that,
-
motherhood just profoundly
changes you forever.
-
And how can you not
change everything else?
-
I think when I got, I
remember when I got pregnant
-
and actually before I got pregnant,
-
I wasn't sure that, I've
always loved children,
-
I've always loved other people's children.
-
So, I'm very much, I'm such an auntie,
-
like I'm completing the business
-
of all my nephews and nieces.
-
But I remember thinking that
-
my writing was so important
to me that I wasn't sure
-
that I could be the kind of
mother that I wanted to be.
-
And so that maybe I really had
no business having children.
-
That's what I used to think.
-
Obviously now with my daughter,
-
I cannot imagine life without her.
-
But I also realized that
things have changed,
-
it's not just about the
expectations and needs,
-
it's also about my own,
-
things have changed for me internally.
-
I feel as like I lost two
years of brain ability
-
from pregnancy and I was just woozy
-
the whole time I was pregnant.
-
I felt like I couldn't think straight.
-
I have the baby and breastfeeding,
-
everything was just very woozy and just,
-
I just couldn't create, right?
-
And it was such a hard time for me
-
because I think I had convinced myself
-
that, of course, yes, you can do it all,
-
you have the baby,
-
and the next minute you're
finishing the next novel,
-
and it just wasn't happening.
-
And I realized as well that
the physicality of pregnancy
-
had affected my creative
output, it really had.
-
So, it's the pregnancy,
it's the early months
-
when everything is new and strange,
-
like my gosh, it's not latching on,
-
and then I'm reading all of
these books about pregnant,
-
about mother who had been like,
-
if you don't breastfeed,
you'll be a terrible mother.
-
And so it was such a
difficult time for me.
-
And it's also one of the reasons
-
that I want to talk more about what,
-
the ways in which women's bodies
and what women's bodies do
-
affect women's lives.
-
And I also remember a man
who is a writer saying to me,
-
"Don't you feel bad that, how,"
-
and it was sort of like,
-
"Oh, how terrible your pregnancy is,
-
"sort of stealing writing time
-
"and creative time away from you."
-
And it's not as if what he said was false,
-
but somehow I just did not take it well.
-
And I said, maybe it has,
because one has to be honest,
-
but at the same time,
pregnancy and childbirth
-
has opened me up to so many emotions.
-
So many, there's a new ability
to understand human gains
-
that actually, I feel really
lucky and blessed to have.
-
And that in fact, in the end,
-
I think we end with creativity.
-
So, it was sort of my way of saying,
-
well, yeah, so I lost two years,
so you can't get pregnant,
-
but guess what?
-
My pregnancy gave me
material, thank you very much.
-
(Chimamanda laughs)
-
But I also think, I
mean, I don't know about,
-
I mean, I think my
publishers are still sort of,
-
I don't know that much change with that,
-
I think, I'm just, I've
become a very slow writer.
-
I find it frustrating.
-
I'm not sure how much of that
-
I can still attribute to my child.
-
I think I'm just slower now, I just am,
-
but I can say sure that the
physicality of having a child,
-
it's not even about other
people's expectations,
-
it's about what it did for me internally
-
and make creative space,
and that was significant.
-
- During the pandemic,
-
my husband would create these
little Ted Talk sessions
-
with our teenage daughters.
-
And one of them was on you.
-
- Really?
- Yeah.
-
I'm not a part of it, that's their thing,
-
which I think is great in
talking about feminism.
-
And where do you, there's
a certain commodification
-
that I think is happening
with feminism right now,
-
although it's also being
more widely embraced,
-
what do you make of where
feminism as an ideology
-
and its popularity stands right now?
-
- I feel it's, and I hear you about both.
-
I think it's not quite,
-
I mean, there is of course a kind of,
-
I guess the cool elements to an extent
-
so that if you're a famous celebrity,
-
it's kind of cool I think,
-
to maybe wear T-shirt that says feminist.
-
But I sometimes, I do
think that we may be,
-
that we over emphasis,
-
I think we give it more
power than it deserves.
-
I guess my point is that
there's still in the real world,
-
an incredible amount of resistance
-
and backlash to the idea of feminism,
-
just fundamentally the idea
-
that women are equal human
beings, there's still a lot.
-
I know, for example, how,
-
when I put on quote came-out as feminist,
-
my perception, particularly
in Nigeria changed.
-
So I had been this writer
who, we love her books
-
and she's, and then the minute
-
I start talking about feminism,
-
I become what they call controversial.
-
And really when you sit
back and think about it,
-
I'm thinking the only thing that changed
-
is that I gave a Ted Talk saying
-
that we should all be feminists.
-
And suddenly everything,
-
in some ways I'm now covered
as this controversial figure.
-
And so I like to joke and say
that if I take a sip of water,
-
somebody in the Nigerian press will say,
-
"She'd sip water like a feminist."
-
And then lots of people will be like,
-
feminists are terrible,
they want to kill men,
-
they, and I've been accused of things
-
like destroying marriages,
-
because they say young
girls listen to her,
-
and then they don't want to get married.
-
And I've been at the airport
where parents come to me
-
and say, "My daughter loves you
-
"and I'm very worried about that,
-
"'cause I'm worried that
she'll never get married."
-
I mean, it's--
-
- Well, like, what do you say
when someone comes up to you
-
and says something like that?
-
- Oh, I actually, usually,
if I'm in a good mood,
-
I'm already happy to engage.
-
Because there's a part of me
-
that just, I want to convince people.
-
So I'll say, no, I think
you've misunderstood.
-
And I'll say, well, why do you
think she can't get married?
-
And then I'll say things like,
-
let me tell you what feminism means.
-
Do you want your daughter
to have access to education?
-
Do you want your daughter's clutches
-
to be cut off forceful and disgustingly
-
in the name of FGM?
-
Do you want her to have a choice
-
to leave a marriage that's bad?
-
Do you want her to have access to a job
-
that she deserves and she's qualified for?
-
Do you want her boss to grab her breast
-
when she walks into his office?
-
I mean, I sort of list things.
-
Do you want her to be greeted
-
when she walks into a
restaurant with a man?
-
Do you want her to be allowed
-
to walk into a restaurant alone?
-
Because actually in
this country, in Legos,
-
which is so cosmopolitan,
there're parts of Legos,
-
where you still cannot walk into a bar,
-
if you don't have a man with you.
-
And so, I say things like that,
-
and suddenly they're like,
well, yes, but it's just that,
-
and often they create a boogeyman,
-
they say, but you know that
all these other feminists
-
that say that we should,
that men should be killed.
-
And I'm thinking, no,
nobody actually says that.
-
And even if somebody did,
-
feminism seems to be the only
sort of justice movement,
-
which is what I like to call it,
-
where we pick up a few extremes
-
and we then try to pretend
that they represent the whole.
-
So that happened actually quit a bit.
-
And then, I meet young
women who say things to me
-
like, oh, I went out on a date
-
and then I have an opinion that's stronger
-
and then the guy says to me,
-
you must be follow of Chimamanda.
-
And that was the end
of the date, it's so...
-
(Chimamanda laughs)
-
Oh, it's actually,
-
and then I meet people
and people are like,
-
oh, I'm surprised, I'm so
surprised that you are nice.
-
I'm like why wouldn't?
-
And they're like, because
you're a feminist.
-
So there's just so much.
-
And I find that, and
sometimes it's exhausting.
-
But then on the other hand,
I keep thinking to myself,
-
if it's making a difference
-
for one young woman in this country,
-
I'm going to keep talking about it.
-
And I feel as though they're
young women now in this country
-
who have language and
who have more confidence
-
and who most of all know
that they're not alone.
-
I was actually talking
to a woman in Germany,
-
she's Nigerian, and she said to me,
-
she grew up in a very
traditional household.
-
She said her father had dinner.
-
They would have conversations,
-
her father would ask her first brother,
-
do you have anything to say?
-
Second brother, do you
have anything to say?
-
Conversation is over.
-
And they're three sisters,
they just did not matter.
-
And she says that at the time,
she knew something was wrong,
-
but she did not know the name for it.
-
And she says, "So I
listened to your Ted Talk,
-
"and I was like, oh, so that's what it is.
-
"That's your name for all of
the issues I have with my dad."
-
And just hearing that,
-
which she just told me about a week ago,
-
just, I felt so, I don't know,
-
it's that thing where you
think, my life's work, right?
-
I'm like, this young woman
suddenly doesn't feel as alone
-
because suddenly she's like,
-
oh, this thing actually has validity
-
in this feelings that I have,
-
these objections that I
have to my being reduced
-
because I'm a girl.
-
So yeah, I mean, yeah, I
think I've rambled for a bit--
-
- Yeah, so this is another
example of giving permission.
-
- Yes, and that makes me so happy.
-
She really, I mean, just
hearing her say that,
-
just made me so happy.
-
- This year, you also
published a lengthy essay
-
on your website about the riff between you
-
and two other Nigerian writers
-
and accusations that you're anti-trans,
-
oppressing queer people.
-
What has been the fallout
since that essay was published?
-
And where do things stand?
-
- Oh, the fallout, I guess the fallout,
-
I guess the fallout, I mean,
-
I should say that one of
the things that's good,
-
but I think for me at least,
is that I don't criticize,
-
I'm not on social media,
I'm not on Twitter,
-
and it's a decision I made years ago
-
because I just don't think
it would work for me,
-
because I'm not a person who...
-
Because yeah, I mean, it
just wouldn't work for me.
-
So I think because of
that, I don't, I cannot,
-
I mean, I know obviously that
-
it was widely read, widely discussed,
-
there're people for,
there're people against,
-
and you know honestly, I
have absolutely no regrets.
-
I would completely write that again today.
-
And it's because, and I should also say
-
that I think it's a
consequence of grieving.
-
That I suddenly just
that I do not have time
-
for rubbish anymore,
-
just my patience for nonsense is gone.
-
And I just feel like that
the things that are wrong,
-
that one should be able
to call-out as wrong.
-
And there's something, there's
a larger problem, I think,
-
that I feel very strongly about,
-
which is, I think that there's a thing
-
that's happening on the left in the U.S,
-
and I think it's being
transferred, it's being,
-
kind of in the way that America
sort of exports everything
-
and the rest of the world, just
greedily imports everything
-
that even this discourse
is not being exported
-
to Europe, to Africa,
-
where this is also toxic of language,
-
you have to say something in particular
-
when you cannot question,
-
and particularly if you're a woman.
-
And so I'm a person who
I've always asked questions,
-
that's the person that I am.
-
And if I don't get answers
that make sense to me,
-
I will not accept it.
-
And so the problem really is,
-
and in some ways it was hurtful
-
because in Nigeria, I'm
actually often accused
-
of, as the parent and other
parents of a young person said,
-
"You're responsible for
encouraging gay people,
-
"that is why so many young people
-
"are coming out as gay in this country
-
"cause you're encouraging them."
-
To which I said,
-
that's something that
I will wear with pride.
-
The point being, I'm known,
-
and I, and it's something
that I'm very proud of,
-
to speak out for gay Nigerian citizens.
-
This is a country where it's
actually illegal to be gay.
-
And so somehow to,
-
because I have rejected a second language
-
about transgender ideology
-
and I continue to reject that language.
-
I just feel like, one
cannot then say to me
-
that I am anti-LGBTQI people?
-
Because I'm not.
-
but I'm just not going to use language
-
that doesn't make sense
to me, and I feel--
-
- And what language are you rejecting?
-
- I'm rejecting the language,
-
so if I see that I think
that there's a difference
-
between trans-women and
women that are born female,
-
and I'm told that you cannot see that,
-
I just find it absurd.
-
Why do we have to deny difference
-
in the name of inclusiveness?
-
Actually the whole point of
inclusiveness is difference.
-
And part of the reason that I reject that,
-
is it just makes me think, it's
like saying I'm color blind.
-
I just feel like it makes no sense.
-
And it makes it difficult to
talk about the particular needs
-
of each group.
-
The health needs of trans-women
-
are fairly different from
the health needs of women
-
who are born female.
-
So if we're going to pretend
that there's no difference,
-
how do we talk about that?
-
I mean, just, okay, I think
it was sort of new to me too.
-
So anyway, the question
was what's the fallout.
-
I don't, I mean, the fallout
is that there are people who,
-
there's a woman who was
supposed to interview me
-
and then she says,
-
"Oh no, the magazine council,
-
"because they see you're anti-trans."
-
And I was just like, that's fine.
-
The fallout is that I'm
giving a talk in South Africa,
-
and then I hear that the people
-
are being very insulting online
-
and saying they'll boycott
it, and that's also fine.
-
I mean, I really think that,
-
I don't need to be listened
to by everyone, right?
-
I don't, and we don't have to agree.
-
And I just feel like that
there's something lucky
-
and it's not even compassion.
-
There's a kind of good faith lacking.
-
I just find it so, I mean,
-
to be told that I am killing trans-women.
-
I mean, I just find, it's just ridiculous.
-
And I kind of think that,
-
I sometimes think that
there are a lot of people
-
who could speak out who
are not speaking out.
-
And so there's a culture of fear,
-
and I think it's so
unhealthy for everything.
-
And it's often people
who are on the same side,
-
so this is actually my tribe,
-
but then it's the people who
are supposed to be with you,
-
who are your tribe, that turn around
-
and just make very easy targets of you.
-
I mean, the end, actually leave the people
-
who I in fact, the actual
trans-phobic people,
-
nobody talks about that.
-
But instead it's women who are feminists,
-
who actually are all for
inclusivity and difference
-
and who then turned
out to be the monsters,
-
and I just think,
-
I think there's a lot of
misogyny there as well.
-
- You're pretty critical
of celebrity culture.
-
And no, okay.
- I don't.
-
I don't think, I mean,
-
I guess it depends on
what that means though.
-
- Well maybe the way
social media plays with it?
-
I could be wrong, so I can take--
-
- I actually think a lot about celebs.
-
I mean, it's really not
a thing that I spent.
-
I mean, I think it's being,
-
I think celebrity culture is part of,
-
is not something I really
pay a lot of attention.
-
That's it, to be honest.
-
- You said you made a
decision not to be on Twitter
-
because it's not for you.
-
- Yeah.
-
- What's your relationship with other,
-
do you have relationship with
other social media platforms?
-
- I have Instagram,
-
which I like because I
think it appeals to vanity
-
and I have a very healthy day inside.
-
Actually the reason I
started doing Instagram
-
and also Facebook, but I
don't really do it myself,
-
it's not all the time.
-
But it's also because I realized
-
that if you do not tell,
-
to a certain extent social
media is here to stay,
-
it's, this is it, right?
-
This is our reality.
-
And there's a sense
-
in which if you completely
remove yourself from it,
-
what you're doing is
you're opening the door
-
for other people to tell your story.
-
So kind of participating
in Facebook and Instagram,
-
putting up things that I'm doing,
-
I just kind of, I think it's a way of,
-
yeah, telling my own story.
-
So, yes, that I do,
-
but I think Twitter is
a different platform.
-
- So do you feel like
you have more control
-
over messaging in Instagram,
-
or maybe it's just not
the same kind of feedback
-
that you might get it on Twitter?
-
- Yeah, I think Twitter has,
-
there's a lot more performativity,
-
there's a lot more,
-
you're supposed to be having conversations
-
in this very short snippets of words
-
and it's invariably
going to be about people
-
kind of trying to one-up one another.
-
And it just, I don't see how necessarily
-
one can tell one story
through that medium,
-
in a way that sort of really,
-
it's not about, so Facebook and Instagram,
-
and putting up things
that I'm doing, right?
-
So you kind of see what I'm
doing from my own point of view.
-
So in a way, it's just really
-
the ability to tell one's own story.
-
I don't want to be on Twitter
because I don't want to tweet.
-
(Chimamanda laughs)
-
- What are you doing for joy?
-
- Family and friends,
-
and also really learning to let
myself feel what I'm feeling
-
and in a strange way,
-
it might not often
actually results in tears,
-
but I think ultimately
it's a joyful thing.
-
And it's still hard for me because, yeah.
-
So yeah, so family, friends,
-
learning to just let myself
feel what I'm feeling.
-
- What stories or writers
are you reading right now
-
or who is exciting you?
-
- What am I reading now?
-
I'm reading lots of things.
-
I'm re-reading a lot of Holy Shrinker
-
because I'm writing a piece
about him, his recent book.
-
Trying to, see every time
-
I'm asked what I'm reading I forget.
-
Well, here we have "Collected
Poems of Audre Lorde"
-
- Audre Lorde.
-
- Yes, and, this I just started reading,
-
it's a history book about Nigeria,
-
then I'm reading showing
translators book again.
-
But really what you think about,
-
I'm reading because I'm
trying to write fiction,
-
I'm reading a lot of poetry.
-
I read a lot of poetry
when I'm writing fiction,
-
because I don't like to read fiction
-
when I'm writing fiction,
-
because I'm terrified that I will start
-
to sound like whoever
I'm write, or reading,
-
especially if I like who I'm reading.
-
So I'm just reading a lot of poetry,
-
just actually reading this
book by me like Alexander
-
called "Birthplace with Various Stones."
-
Also reading this essay collection,
-
that's edited the Tracy
K. Smith and John Freeman.
-
That's called as a
"Revolution outside my Love."
-
It's just a bunch of essays
that are actually quite good.
-
So I just, I think in general, I just,
-
I read too many things at the same time
-
and this period
-
that's being just
emotionally difficult for me
-
there're times when it's hard
for me to escape in the book,
-
because, so then I just
find myself reading.
-
I read a bit of this,
I read a bit of that.
-
I'm just switching things off
like him, so that's happened,
-
that's actually been happening
much more since last June,
-
and it's not necessarily a good thing.
-
- Can you tell us anything about the novel
-
you're working on?
-
- No.
-
- Okay, when will it possibly be out?
-
And I think there's no writer,
-
so you may not have a date.
-
(Chimamanda laughs)
-
- No, I cannot, I mean,
I'm so superstitious,
-
and was talking about being a slow writer,
-
I really am, it frustrates me to no end
-
and so even talking about process
-
can sometimes make me very panicky
-
because I'm thinking,
-
all right, you're talking about
the process, are you okay?
-
That means you're not
going to be able to write
-
for the next week.
-
Nothing will work, so then
I get very superstitious
-
and then I missed when I was younger
-
when I was just so, I
mean, it was just sort of,
-
I just couldn't wait to have free times
-
so that I could write.
-
And now, now I have all this
freedom, I'm sitting here,
-
my bloody study and just
nothing has happened,
-
and it's just the most...
-
- What is your writing process?
-
Is it silence, solitude, music?
-
- No, no, it's certainly silence.
-
Not music, when I'm writing
music is noise to me.
-
I need silence, I need
solitude also space.
-
So it's being alone in the house.
-
Just feed something in me.
-
And even if everyone is quiet,
I still know I'm not alone
-
and that gets in the way.
-
So not only do I need the
solitude I also just need,
-
and I just need to know that
there're empty rooms around me
-
and that nobody is in them.
-
But I don't really have like
a, I don't have a set time,
-
I wake up by eight and I'm at my desk
-
and I wish I did, but I don't.
-
So I'm just kind of walking
when I can, when it happens.
-
And then when it's not happening
-
I'm reading hoping that
wards will come to me.
-
- I teach creative
non-fiction to MFA students
-
at Northwestern and
class starts next week.
-
And like I did last year,
-
the first day of class,
-
I also share a Ted Talk from
you about the singular story.
-
Do you think there've been improvements
-
since you released that Ted Talk?
-
- I think so, a little
bit, yeah, I think so.
-
I'm also generally, I
guess I'd like to be,
-
yeah, I think there's a greater awareness
-
that this idea of that
you cannot judge a person
-
by one story that we all, most people,
-
and a place as well.
-
And also, I think there's
a bit more of an awareness
-
in media about power
-
and how power really affects storytelling,
-
especially of places,
-
that if you're a journalist from New York
-
and you swoop into Legos
-
and write a piece about Nigeria,
-
Nigerian cannot swoop into New York
-
and it's just that the
part is a part difference.
-
I think there's a bit more
of an awareness of that,
-
but obviously there's so
much more that can be done.
-
I think, and I think even in television,
-
which can be very guilty of
a single story of coverage.
-
I feel as though there's just
a bit more of an awareness,
-
I think so.
-
I feel like I'm certain, so?
-
- No, what were you gonna say?
-
- No, I was going to be
kind of silly and say that,
-
I think maybe there's this a
little bit of an improvement
-
with me and my single
stories of people and places.
-
- Well, it's been
wonderful to talk to you,
-
thank you so much for your
time and sharing your stories
-
and your journey with us.
-
- Thank you, it was really lovely.