CARL ROGERS AND GLORIA COUNSELLING PT 2

This is PART 2 OF a tape of a Counselling Session between Carl Rogers and Gloria. Carl Rogers uses Person Centred approach. Humanistic style of counselling. This is the SECOND part of about 5/6 videos. To view the OTHER PARTS, just click on esherborne3, or see if they are listed on the right hand side of the screen. Enjoy..........

If I have any success in creating the kind of conditions

that I've described initially

then we may be able to see some of these changes

in this client even though I know in advance

that our contact is going to be very brief.

Good morning.

Hello, Dr.

I'm Dr. Rogers. You must be Gloria.

Yes, I am.

Won't you have this chair?

Well now, we have half an hour together

and I really don't know what we'll be able to make of it

but I hope we can make something of it.

I'll be glad to know whatever concerns you.

Well, right now I'm nervous

but I feel more comfortable with the way you're talking in a low voice

and I don't feel like you'll be so harsh on me but.

I hear the tremor in your voice.

Well, the main thing I want to talk to you about is

I'm just newly divorced and I had gone in therapy before

and I felt comfortable when I left

and all of a sudden now the biggest change is adjusting to my single life.

Mmm hmm.

And one of the things that bother me the most is

especially men and having men to the house

and how it affects the children and.

Mmm hmm.

The biggest thing I want,

the thing that keeps coming to my mind I want to tell you about is

I have a daughter, nine,

who at one time I felt had a lot of emotional problems.

I wish I could stop shaking.

(Chuckling.)

And I'm real conscious of things affecting her.

I don't want her to get upset. I don't want to shock her.

I want so bad for her to accept me.

And we're real open with each other, especially about sex.

And the other day she saw a girl that was single but pregnant

and she asked me all about it.

Can girls get pregnant if they're single?

And the conversation was fine and I wasn't un-at-ease at all with her

until she asked me if I'd ever made love to a man

since I've left her daddy and I lied to her.

And ever since that it keeps coming up to my mind

because I feel so guilty lying to her

cause I never lie and I want her to trust me.

Mmm hmm.

And I almost want an answer from you.

I want you to tell me if it will affect her wrong

if I told her the truth or what.

Mmm hmm.

And it's this concern about her and the fact that

this open relationship that has existed between you

now you feel is kind of damaged?

Yes, I feel like I have to be on guard about that because

I remember when I was a little girl.

When I first found out my mother and father made love,

it was dirty and terrible and

I didn't like her anymore for a while.

Mmm hmm.

And I don't want to lie to Pammy either and I don't know.

And I sure wish I could give you the answer

as to what you should tell her.

I was afraid you were gonna say that.

Cause what you really want is an answer.

I want to especially know if it would affect her

if I was completely honest and open with her

or if it would affect her because I lied.

I feel like it's bound to make a strain because I lied to her.

Mmm hmm.

You sort of feel she'll suspect that

or she will know something's not quite right in the relationship.

I feel that inside she'll distrust me, yes.

Mmm hmm.

And also I thought, well, gee,

what about when she gets a little older

and she finds herself in touchy situations,

she probably wouldn't want to admit it to me

cause she thinks I'm so good and so sweet.

Mmm hmm.

And yet I'm afraid she could think I'm really a devil.

And I want so bad for her to accept me.

And I don't know how much a nine-year-old can take.

And really both alternatives concern you.

That she might think you're

too good or better than you really are.

Yes.

And she might think that you're worse than you are.

Not worse than I am.

I don't know if she can accept me the way I am.

I think I paint a picture that I'm all sweet and motherly

and I'm a little ashamed of my shady side too.

Mmm hmm. I see.

It really cuts a little deeper.

If she really knew you would she, could she accept you?

This is what I don't know, yeah.

I don't want her to turn away from me.

And I don't even know how I feel about it

because there are times when I feel so guilty,

like when I have a man over.

I even try to make a special set-up

so that if I were ever alone with him,

the children would never catch me and that sort of thing.

Mmm hmm.

Cause I'm real leery about it.

Mmm hmm.

And yet I also know I have these desires.

So it's quite clear it isn't only

her problem or the relationship with her, it's in you as well.

And my guilt, yeah. I feel guilty so much.

What can I accept myself as doing?

Yes, yes.

And you realize that you set up subterfuges

so as to make sure that you're not caught or something.

You realize that you are acting from guilt, is that it?

Yes.

I don't like the way.

I would like to feel comfortable with whatever I do.

If I choose not to tell Pammy the truth,

to feel comfortable that she can't handle it and I don't.

I want to be honest and yet

I feel there are some areas that I don't even accept.

Mmm hmm.

And if you can't accept them in yourself,

how could you possibly be comfortable in telling them to her?

Right.

And yet as you say we do have these desires

and you do have your feelings

but you don't feel good about them.

Right.

I have a feeling you're just gonna sit there

and let me stew on it and I want more.

I want you to help me get rid of my guilt feeling.

If I can get rid of my guilt feeling about lying

or going to bed with a single man, any of that,

just so I can feel more comfortable.

Mmm hmm.

And I guess I'd like to say,

no, I don't want to let you just stew in your feelings

but on the other hand I also feel

that this is the kind of very private thing

that I couldn't possibly answer for you

but I sure as anything will try to help you work toward your own answer.

I don't know if that makes any sense to you but I mean it.

Well, I appreciate you saying that.

You sound like you mean it.

But I don't know where to go.

I don't begin to know where to go.

I thought that I'd pretty well worked over most of my guilt

and now that this is coming up I'm disappointed in myself.

Mmm hmm.

I really am.

I like it when I feel that no matter what I do,

even if it's against my own morals or my upbringing,

that I can still feel good about me and now I don't.

There's a girl at work who sort of mothers me

and I think she thinks I'm all sweet

and I sure don't want to show my

more ornery devilish side with her.

I want to be sweet and it's so hard for me.

This all seems so new again and it's so disappointing.

Yeah, I get the disappointment but here a lot of these things

you thought you'd worked through

and now the guilt and a feeling that only a part of you

is acceptable to anybody else.

Yes.

That keeps coming out.

I guess I do catch the real deep puzzlement that you feel

as to what the hell shall I do, what can I do?

Yes and you know what I can find, Dr.,

is that everything I start to do,

impulse that seems natural to tell Pammy

or go out on a date or something,

I'm comfortable until I think how I was affected as a child

and the minute that comes up then I'm all haywire.

Mmm hmm.

I want to be a good mother so bad

and I feel like I am a good mother

but then there's those little exceptions

like my guilt with working.

I want to work and it's so fun having extra money.

I like to work nights.

The minute I think I'm not being real good to the children

or giving them enough time then I start feeling guilty again.

Then that's when it's a, what do they call it, a double bind.

That's just what it feels like.

I want to do this and it feels right

but after all I'm not being a good mother and I want to be both.

Mmm hmm.

I'm becoming more and more aware of what a perfectionist I am.

That's what it seems like. I want to be so perfect.

Either I want to become perfect

in my standards or not have that need anymore.

Or I guess I hear it a little differently that

what you want is to seem perfect.

It's a matter of great importance to you to be a good mother

and you want to seem to be a good mother

even if some of your actual feelings differ from that.

Does that touch it or not?

Yeah, I don't feel like I'm saying that, no.

That isn't what I feel, really.

I want to approve of me always but my actions won't let me.

I want to approve of me.

I think that.

I realize you, all right, but let me cause I'd like to understand that.

You sound as though your actions are kind of outside of you.

You want to approve of you

but what you do somehow won't let you approve of yourself.

Right.

Like I feel that I could approve of myself regarding,

for example, my sex life, this is the big thing.

Mmm hmm.

If I really fell in love with a man

and I respected him and I adored him,

I don't think I'd feel so guilty going to bed with him

and I don't think I'd have to make up any excuses

to the children because they could see my natural caring for him.

Mmm hmm.

But when I have the physical desire and I'll say, oh,

why not and I want to anyway then I feel guilty afterwards.

I hate facing the kids,

I don't like looking at myself and I rarely enjoy it.

Mmm hmm.

And this is what I mean.

If the circumstances would be different I don't think I'd feel so guilty

because I'd feel right about it.

Yeah, I guess I hear you saying

if what I was doing when I went to bed with a man

was really genuine and full of love and respect and so on,

I wouldn't feel guilty in relation to Pam.

I really would be comfortable about the situation.

That's how I feel, yes.

And I know that sounds like I want a perfect situation

but that is how I feel.

And in the meantime I can't stop these desires.

I have tried that also.

I've tried saying, OK, I don't like myself when I do that

so I won't do it anymore.

But then I resent the children.

I think why should they stop me from doing what I want

and it's really not that bad.

Mmm hmm.

But I guess I heard you saying too that

it isn't only the children--