WEBVTT

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If I have any success in creating the kind of conditions

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that I've described initially

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then we may be able to see some of these changes

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in this client even though I know in advance

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that our contact is going to be very brief.

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Good morning.

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Hello, Dr.

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I'm Dr. Rogers. You must be Gloria.

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Yes, I am.

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Won't you have this chair?

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Well now, we have half an hour together

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and I really don't know what we'll be able to make of it

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but I hope we can make something of it.

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I'll be glad to know whatever concerns you.

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Well, right now I'm nervous

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but I feel more comfortable with the way you're talking in a low voice

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and I don't feel like you'll be so harsh on me but.

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I hear the tremor in your voice.

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Well, the main thing I want to talk to you about is

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I'm just newly divorced and I had gone in therapy before

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and I felt comfortable when I left

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and all of a sudden now the biggest change is adjusting to my single life.

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Mmm hmm.

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And one of the things that bother me the most is

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especially men and having men to the house

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and how it affects the children and.

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Mmm hmm.

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The biggest thing I want,

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the thing that keeps coming to my mind I want to tell you about is

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I have a daughter, nine,

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who at one time I felt had a lot of emotional problems.

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I wish I could stop shaking.

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(Chuckling.)

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And I'm real conscious of things affecting her.

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I don't want her to get upset. I don't want to shock her.

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I want so bad for her to accept me.

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And we're real open with each other, especially about sex.

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And the other day she saw a girl that was single but pregnant

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and she asked me all about it.

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Can girls get pregnant if they're single?

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And the conversation was fine and I wasn't un-at-ease at all with her

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until she asked me if I'd ever made love to a man

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since I've left her daddy and I lied to her.

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And ever since that it keeps coming up to my mind

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because I feel so guilty lying to her

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cause I never lie and I want her to trust me.

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Mmm hmm.

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And I almost want an answer from you.

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I want you to tell me if it will affect her wrong

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if I told her the truth or what.

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Mmm hmm.

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And it's this concern about her and the fact that

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this open relationship that has existed between you

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now you feel is kind of damaged?

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Yes, I feel like I have to be on guard about that because

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I remember when I was a little girl.

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When I first found out my mother and father made love,

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it was dirty and terrible and

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I didn't like her anymore for a while.

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Mmm hmm.

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And I don't want to lie to Pammy either and I don't know.

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And I sure wish I could give you the answer

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as to what you should tell her.

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I was afraid you were gonna say that.

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Cause what you really want is an answer.

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I want to especially know if it would affect her

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if I was completely honest and open with her

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or if it would affect her because I lied.

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I feel like it's bound to make a strain because I lied to her.

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Mmm hmm.

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You sort of feel she'll suspect that

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or she will know something's not quite right in the relationship.

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I feel that inside she'll distrust me, yes.

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Mmm hmm.

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And also I thought, well, gee,

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what about when she gets a little older

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and she finds herself in touchy situations,

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she probably wouldn't want to admit it to me

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cause she thinks I'm so good and so sweet.

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Mmm hmm.

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And yet I'm afraid she could think I'm really a devil.

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And I want so bad for her to accept me.

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And I don't know how much a nine-year-old can take.

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And really both alternatives concern you.

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That she might think you're

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too good or better than you really are.

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Yes.

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And she might think that you're worse than you are.

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Not worse than I am.

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I don't know if she can accept me the way I am.

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I think I paint a picture that I'm all sweet and motherly

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and I'm a little ashamed of my shady side too.

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Mmm hmm. I see.

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It really cuts a little deeper.

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If she really knew you would she, could she accept you?

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This is what I don't know, yeah.

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I don't want her to turn away from me.

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And I don't even know how I feel about it

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because there are times when I feel so guilty,

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like when I have a man over.

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I even try to make a special set-up

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so that if I were ever alone with him,

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the children would never catch me and that sort of thing.

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Mmm hmm.

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Cause I'm real leery about it.

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Mmm hmm.

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And yet I also know I have these desires.

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So it's quite clear it isn't only

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her problem or the relationship with her, it's in you as well.

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And my guilt, yeah. I feel guilty so much.

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What can I accept myself as doing?

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Yes, yes.

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And you realize that you set up subterfuges

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so as to make sure that you're not caught or something.

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You realize that you are acting from guilt, is that it?

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Yes.

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I don't like the way.

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I would like to feel comfortable with whatever I do.

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If I choose not to tell Pammy the truth,

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to feel comfortable that she can't handle it and I don't.

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I want to be honest and yet

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I feel there are some areas that I don't even accept.

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Mmm hmm.

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And if you can't accept them in yourself,

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how could you possibly be comfortable in telling them to her?

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Right.

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And yet as you say we do have these desires

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and you do have your feelings

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but you don't feel good about them.

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Right.

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I have a feeling you're just gonna sit there

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and let me stew on it and I want more.

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I want you to help me get rid of my guilt feeling.

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If I can get rid of my guilt feeling about lying

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or going to bed with a single man, any of that,

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just so I can feel more comfortable.

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Mmm hmm.

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And I guess I'd like to say,

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no, I don't want to let you just stew in your feelings

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but on the other hand I also feel

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that this is the kind of very private thing

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that I couldn't possibly answer for you

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but I sure as anything will try to help you work toward your own answer.

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I don't know if that makes any sense to you but I mean it.

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Well, I appreciate you saying that.

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You sound like you mean it.

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But I don't know where to go.

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I don't begin to know where to go.

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I thought that I'd pretty well worked over most of my guilt

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and now that this is coming up I'm disappointed in myself.

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Mmm hmm.

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I really am.

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I like it when I feel that no matter what I do,

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even if it's against my own morals or my upbringing,

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that I can still feel good about me and now I don't.

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There's a girl at work who sort of mothers me

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and I think she thinks I'm all sweet

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and I sure don't want to show my

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more ornery devilish side with her.

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I want to be sweet and it's so hard for me.

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This all seems so new again and it's so disappointing.

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Yeah, I get the disappointment but here a lot of these things

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you thought you'd worked through

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and now the guilt and a feeling that only a part of you

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is acceptable to anybody else.

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Yes.

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That keeps coming out.

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I guess I do catch the real deep puzzlement that you feel

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as to what the hell shall I do, what can I do?

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Yes and you know what I can find, Dr.,

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is that everything I start to do,

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impulse that seems natural to tell Pammy

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or go out on a date or something,

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I'm comfortable until I think how I was affected as a child

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and the minute that comes up then I'm all haywire.

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Mmm hmm.

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I want to be a good mother so bad

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and I feel like I am a good mother

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but then there's those little exceptions

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like my guilt with working.

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I want to work and it's so fun having extra money.

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I like to work nights.

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The minute I think I'm not being real good to the children

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or giving them enough time then I start feeling guilty again.

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Then that's when it's a, what do they call it, a double bind.

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That's just what it feels like.

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I want to do this and it feels right

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but after all I'm not being a good mother and I want to be both.

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Mmm hmm.

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I'm becoming more and more aware of what a perfectionist I am.

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That's what it seems like. I want to be so perfect.

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Either I want to become perfect

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in my standards or not have that need anymore.

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Or I guess I hear it a little differently that

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what you want is to seem perfect.

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It's a matter of great importance to you to be a good mother

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and you want to seem to be a good mother

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even if some of your actual feelings differ from that.

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Does that touch it or not?

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Yeah, I don't feel like I'm saying that, no.

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That isn't what I feel, really.

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I want to approve of me always but my actions won't let me.

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I want to approve of me.

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I think that.

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I realize you, all right, but let me cause I'd like to understand that.

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You sound as though your actions are kind of outside of you.

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You want to approve of you

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but what you do somehow won't let you approve of yourself.

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Right.

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Like I feel that I could approve of myself regarding,

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for example, my sex life, this is the big thing.

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Mmm hmm.

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If I really fell in love with a man

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and I respected him and I adored him,

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I don't think I'd feel so guilty going to bed with him

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and I don't think I'd have to make up any excuses

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to the children because they could see my natural caring for him.

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Mmm hmm.

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But when I have the physical desire and I'll say, oh,

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why not and I want to anyway then I feel guilty afterwards.

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I hate facing the kids,

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I don't like looking at myself and I rarely enjoy it.

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Mmm hmm.

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And this is what I mean.

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If the circumstances would be different I don't think I'd feel so guilty

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because I'd feel right about it.

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Yeah, I guess I hear you saying

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if what I was doing when I went to bed with a man

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was really genuine and full of love and respect and so on,

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I wouldn't feel guilty in relation to Pam.

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I really would be comfortable about the situation.

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That's how I feel, yes.

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And I know that sounds like I want a perfect situation

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but that is how I feel.

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And in the meantime I can't stop these desires.

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I have tried that also.

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I've tried saying, OK, I don't like myself when I do that

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so I won't do it anymore.

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But then I resent the children.

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I think why should they stop me from doing what I want

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and it's really not that bad.

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Mmm hmm.

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But I guess I heard you saying too that

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it isn't only the children--