If I have any success in creating the kind of conditions
that I've described initially
then we may be able to see some of these changes
in this client even though I know in advance
that our contact is going to be very brief.
Good morning.
Hello, Dr.
I'm Dr. Rogers. You must be Gloria.
Yes, I am.
Won't you have this chair?
Well now, we have half an hour together
and I really don't know what we'll be able to make of it
but I hope we can make something of it.
I'll be glad to know whatever concerns you.
Well, right now I'm nervous
but I feel more comfortable with the way you're talking in a low voice
and I don't feel like you'll be so harsh on me but.
I hear the tremor in your voice.
Well, the main thing I want to talk to you about is
I'm just newly divorced and I had gone in therapy before
and I felt comfortable when I left
and all of a sudden now the biggest change is adjusting to my single life.
Mmm hmm.
And one of the things that bother me the most is
especially men and having men to the house
and how it affects the children and.
Mmm hmm.
The biggest thing I want,
the thing that keeps coming to my mind I want to tell you about is
I have a daughter, nine,
who at one time I felt had a lot of emotional problems.
I wish I could stop shaking.
(Chuckling.)
And I'm real conscious of things affecting her.
I don't want her to get upset. I don't want to shock her.
I want so bad for her to accept me.
And we're real open with each other, especially about sex.
And the other day she saw a girl that was single but pregnant
and she asked me all about it.
Can girls get pregnant if they're single?
And the conversation was fine and I wasn't un-at-ease at all with her
until she asked me if I'd ever made love to a man
since I've left her daddy and I lied to her.
And ever since that it keeps coming up to my mind
because I feel so guilty lying to her
cause I never lie and I want her to trust me.
Mmm hmm.
And I almost want an answer from you.
I want you to tell me if it will affect her wrong
if I told her the truth or what.
Mmm hmm.
And it's this concern about her and the fact that
this open relationship that has existed between you
now you feel is kind of damaged?
Yes, I feel like I have to be on guard about that because
I remember when I was a little girl.
When I first found out my mother and father made love,
it was dirty and terrible and
I didn't like her anymore for a while.
Mmm hmm.
And I don't want to lie to Pammy either and I don't know.
And I sure wish I could give you the answer
as to what you should tell her.
I was afraid you were gonna say that.
Cause what you really want is an answer.
I want to especially know if it would affect her
if I was completely honest and open with her
or if it would affect her because I lied.
I feel like it's bound to make a strain because I lied to her.
Mmm hmm.
You sort of feel she'll suspect that
or she will know something's not quite right in the relationship.
I feel that inside she'll distrust me, yes.
Mmm hmm.
And also I thought, well, gee,
what about when she gets a little older
and she finds herself in touchy situations,
she probably wouldn't want to admit it to me
cause she thinks I'm so good and so sweet.
Mmm hmm.
And yet I'm afraid she could think I'm really a devil.
And I want so bad for her to accept me.
And I don't know how much a nine-year-old can take.
And really both alternatives concern you.
That she might think you're
too good or better than you really are.
Yes.
And she might think that you're worse than you are.
Not worse than I am.
I don't know if she can accept me the way I am.
I think I paint a picture that I'm all sweet and motherly
and I'm a little ashamed of my shady side too.
Mmm hmm. I see.
It really cuts a little deeper.
If she really knew you would she, could she accept you?
This is what I don't know, yeah.
I don't want her to turn away from me.
And I don't even know how I feel about it
because there are times when I feel so guilty,
like when I have a man over.
I even try to make a special set-up
so that if I were ever alone with him,
the children would never catch me and that sort of thing.
Mmm hmm.
Cause I'm real leery about it.
Mmm hmm.
And yet I also know I have these desires.
So it's quite clear it isn't only
her problem or the relationship with her, it's in you as well.
And my guilt, yeah. I feel guilty so much.
What can I accept myself as doing?
Yes, yes.
And you realize that you set up subterfuges
so as to make sure that you're not caught or something.
You realize that you are acting from guilt, is that it?
Yes.
I don't like the way.
I would like to feel comfortable with whatever I do.
If I choose not to tell Pammy the truth,
to feel comfortable that she can't handle it and I don't.
I want to be honest and yet
I feel there are some areas that I don't even accept.
Mmm hmm.
And if you can't accept them in yourself,
how could you possibly be comfortable in telling them to her?
Right.
And yet as you say we do have these desires
and you do have your feelings
but you don't feel good about them.
Right.
I have a feeling you're just gonna sit there
and let me stew on it and I want more.
I want you to help me get rid of my guilt feeling.
If I can get rid of my guilt feeling about lying
or going to bed with a single man, any of that,
just so I can feel more comfortable.
Mmm hmm.
And I guess I'd like to say,
no, I don't want to let you just stew in your feelings
but on the other hand I also feel
that this is the kind of very private thing
that I couldn't possibly answer for you
but I sure as anything will try to help you work toward your own answer.
I don't know if that makes any sense to you but I mean it.
Well, I appreciate you saying that.
You sound like you mean it.
But I don't know where to go.
I don't begin to know where to go.
I thought that I'd pretty well worked over most of my guilt
and now that this is coming up I'm disappointed in myself.
Mmm hmm.
I really am.
I like it when I feel that no matter what I do,
even if it's against my own morals or my upbringing,
that I can still feel good about me and now I don't.
There's a girl at work who sort of mothers me
and I think she thinks I'm all sweet
and I sure don't want to show my
more ornery devilish side with her.
I want to be sweet and it's so hard for me.
This all seems so new again and it's so disappointing.
Yeah, I get the disappointment but here a lot of these things
you thought you'd worked through
and now the guilt and a feeling that only a part of you
is acceptable to anybody else.
Yes.
That keeps coming out.
I guess I do catch the real deep puzzlement that you feel
as to what the hell shall I do, what can I do?
Yes and you know what I can find, Dr.,
is that everything I start to do,
impulse that seems natural to tell Pammy
or go out on a date or something,
I'm comfortable until I think how I was affected as a child
and the minute that comes up then I'm all haywire.
Mmm hmm.
I want to be a good mother so bad
and I feel like I am a good mother
but then there's those little exceptions
like my guilt with working.
I want to work and it's so fun having extra money.
I like to work nights.
The minute I think I'm not being real good to the children
or giving them enough time then I start feeling guilty again.
Then that's when it's a, what do they call it, a double bind.
That's just what it feels like.
I want to do this and it feels right
but after all I'm not being a good mother and I want to be both.
Mmm hmm.
I'm becoming more and more aware of what a perfectionist I am.
That's what it seems like. I want to be so perfect.
Either I want to become perfect
in my standards or not have that need anymore.
Or I guess I hear it a little differently that
what you want is to seem perfect.
It's a matter of great importance to you to be a good mother
and you want to seem to be a good mother
even if some of your actual feelings differ from that.
Does that touch it or not?
Yeah, I don't feel like I'm saying that, no.
That isn't what I feel, really.
I want to approve of me always but my actions won't let me.
I want to approve of me.
I think that.
I realize you, all right, but let me cause I'd like to understand that.
You sound as though your actions are kind of outside of you.
You want to approve of you
but what you do somehow won't let you approve of yourself.
Right.
Like I feel that I could approve of myself regarding,
for example, my sex life, this is the big thing.
Mmm hmm.
If I really fell in love with a man
and I respected him and I adored him,
I don't think I'd feel so guilty going to bed with him
and I don't think I'd have to make up any excuses
to the children because they could see my natural caring for him.
Mmm hmm.
But when I have the physical desire and I'll say, oh,
why not and I want to anyway then I feel guilty afterwards.
I hate facing the kids,
I don't like looking at myself and I rarely enjoy it.
Mmm hmm.
And this is what I mean.
If the circumstances would be different I don't think I'd feel so guilty
because I'd feel right about it.
Yeah, I guess I hear you saying
if what I was doing when I went to bed with a man
was really genuine and full of love and respect and so on,
I wouldn't feel guilty in relation to Pam.
I really would be comfortable about the situation.
That's how I feel, yes.
And I know that sounds like I want a perfect situation
but that is how I feel.
And in the meantime I can't stop these desires.
I have tried that also.
I've tried saying, OK, I don't like myself when I do that
so I won't do it anymore.
But then I resent the children.
I think why should they stop me from doing what I want
and it's really not that bad.
Mmm hmm.
But I guess I heard you saying too that
it isn't only the children--