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The new urgency of climate change

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    Chris Anderson: Welcome.
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    So look, just six months ago,
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    it seems a lifetime ago,
    but it really was just six months ago,
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    climate seemed to be on the lips
    of every thinking person on the planet.
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    Recent events seem to have swept it
    all away from our attention.
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    How worried are you about that?
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    Al Gore: Well, first of all Chris,
    thank you so much for inviting me
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    to have this conversation.
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    People are reacting differently
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    to the climate crisis
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    in the midst of these
    other great challenges
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    that have taken over our awareness,
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    appropriately.
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    One reason is something
    that you mentioned.
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    People get the fact that when scientists
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    are warning us
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    in ever more dire terms
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    and setting their hair
    on fire, so to speak,
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    it's best to listen
    to what they're saying,
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    and I think that lesson
    has begun to sink in in a new way.
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    Another similarity, by the way,
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    is that the climate crisis,
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    like the COVID-19 pandemic,
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    has revealed in a new way
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    the shocking injustices and inequalities
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    and disparities that affect
    communities of color
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    and low-income communities.
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    There are differences.
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    The climate crisis has effects
    that are not measured in years,
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    as the pandemic is,
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    but consequences that are measured
    in centuries and even longer.
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    And the other difference
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    is that instead of depressing
    economic activity
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    to deal with the climate crisis,
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    as nations around the world
    have had to do with COVID-19,
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    we have the opportunity to create
    tens of millions of new jobs.
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    That sounds like a political phrasing,
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    but it's literally true.
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    For the last five years,
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    the fastest-growing job in the US
    has been solar installer.
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    The second fastest has been
    wind turbine technician.
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    And the Oxford Review of Economics
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    just a few weeks ago
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    pointed the way to
    a very jobs-rich recovery
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    if we emphasize renewable energy
    and sustainability technology.
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    So I think we are
    crossing a tipping point,
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    and you need only look
    at the recovery plans
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    that are being presented
    in nations around the world
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    to see that they're very much
    focused on a green recovery.
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    CA: I mean, one obvious impact
    of the pandemic
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    is that it's brought the world's economy
    to a shuddering halt,
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    thereby reducing greenhouse gas emissions.
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    I mean, how big an effect has that been,
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    and is it unambiguously good news?
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    AG: Well, it's a little bit
    of an illusion, Chris,
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    and you need only look back
    to the Great Recession in 2008 and '9,
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    where there was a one percent
    decline in emissions,
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    but then in 2010
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    they came roaring back during the recovery
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    with a four percent increase.
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    The latest estimates are that emissions
    will go down by at least five percent
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    during this induced coma,
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    as the economist Paul Krugman
    perceptively described it,
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    but whether it goes back the way it did
    after the Great Recession
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    is in part up to us,
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    and if these green recovery plans
    are actually implemented,
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    and I know many countries
    are determined to implement them,
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    then we need not repeat that pattern.
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    After all, this whole process is occurring
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    during a period when the cost
    of renewable energy and electric vehicles,
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    batteries, and a range of other
    sustainability approaches
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    are continuing to fall in price,
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    and they're becoming
    much more competitive.
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    Just a quick reference
    to how fast this is:
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    five years ago, electricity
    from solar and wind
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    was cheaper than electricity
    from fossil fuels
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    in only one percent of the world.
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    This year, it's cheaper
    in two thirds of the world,
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    and five years from now
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    it will be cheaper in virtually
    100 percent of the world.
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    EVs will be cost-competitive
    within two years,
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    and then will continue falling in price.
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    And so there are changes underway
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    that could interrupt the pattern
    we saw after the Great Recession.
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    CA: The reason those pricing differentials
    happen in different parts of the world
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    is obviously just because
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    there's different amounts
    of sunshine and wind there
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    and different building costs and so forth.
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    AG: Well, yes, and government policies
    also count for a lot.
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    The world is continuing
    to subsidize fossil fuels
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    at a ridiculous amount,
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    moreso may developing countries
    than in the US and developed countries,
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    but it's subsidized here as well.
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    But everywhere in the world,
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    wind and solar will be cheaper
    as a source of electricity
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    than fossil fuels within a few years.
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    CA: I think I've heard it said
    that the fall in emissions
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    caused the pandemic
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    isn't that much more
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    than the fall that we will need
    every single year
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    if we're to meet emissions targets.
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    Is that true, and, if so,
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    doesn't that seem impossibly daunting?
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    AG: It does seem daunting,
    but first look at the number.
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    That number came from a study
    a little over a year ago
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    released by the IPCC
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    as to what it would take
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    to keep the Earth's temperatures
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    from increasing more than
    1.5 degrees Celsius.
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    And yes, the annual reductions
    would be significant,
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    on the order of what we've seen
    with the pandemic.
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    And yes, that does seem daunting.
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    However, we do have the opportunity
    to make some fairly dramatic changes,
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    and the plan is not a mystery.
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    You start with the two sectors that are
    closest to an effective transition --
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    electricity generation, as I mentioned,
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    and last year, 2019,
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    if you look at all of the new
    electricity generation built
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    all around the world,
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    72 percent of it was from solar and wind.
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    And already, without the continuing
    subsidies for fossil fuels,
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    we would see many more of these plants
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    being shut down.
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    There are some new
    fossil plants being built,
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    but many more are being shut down.
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    And where transportation is concerned,
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    the second sector ready to go,
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    in addition to the cheaper prices
    for EVs that I made reference to before,
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    there are some 45 jurisdictions
    around the world --
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    national, regional, and municipal --
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    where laws have been passed
    beginning a phaseout
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    of internal combustion engines.
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    Even India said that by 2030,
    less than 10 years from now,
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    it will be illegal to sell
    any new internal combustion engines
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    in India.
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    There are many other examples.
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    So the past small reductions
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    may not be an accurate guide
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    to the kind we can achieve
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    with serious national plans
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    and a focused global effort.
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    CA: So help us understand
    just the big picture here, Al.
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    I think before the pandemic,
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    the world was emitting
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    about 55 gigatons of what
    they call CO2 equivalent,
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    so that includes other greenhouse gases
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    like methane dialed up
    to be the equivalent of CO2.
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    And am I right in saying that the IPCC,
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    which is the global
    organization of scientists,
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    is recommending that
    the only way to fix this crisis
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    is to get that number from 55 to zero
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    by 2050 at the very latest,
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    and that even then that there's a chance
    that we will end up with temperature rises
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    more like two degrees Celsius
    rather than 1.5.
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    I mean, is that approximately
    the big picture
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    of what the IPCC is recommending?
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    AG: That's correct.
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    The global goal established
    in the Paris Conference
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    is to get to net zero on a global basis
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    by 2050,
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    and many people quickly add
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    that that really means a 45
    to 50 percent reduction by 2030
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    to make that pathway
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    to net zero feasible.
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    CA: And that kind of timeline
    is the kind of timeline
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    where people can't even imagine.
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    It's just hard to think
    of policy over 30 years.
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    So that's actually a very good shorthand,
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    that humanity's task is to cut
    emissions in half by 2030,
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    approximately speaking,
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    which I think boils down to
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    about a seven or eight percent
    reduction a year, something like that,
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    if I'm not wrong.
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    AG: Not quite. Not quite that large,
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    but close, yes.
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    CA: So it is something like the effect
    that we've experienced this year
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    maybe be necessary.
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    This year we've done it
    by basically shutting down the economy.
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    You're talking about a way of doing it
    over the coming years
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    that actually gives some
    economic growth and new jobs.
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    So talk more about that.
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    You've referred to
    changing our energy sources,
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    changing how we transport.
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    If we did those things,
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    how much of the problem does that solve?
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    AG: Well, we can get to,
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    well, in addition to doing
    the two sectors that I mentioned,
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    we also have to deal with manufacturing
    and all the use cases
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    that require temperatures
    to a thousand degrees Celsius,
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    and there are solutions there as well.
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    I'll come back and mention an exciting one
    that Germany has just embarked upon.
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    We also have to tackle
    regenerative agriculture.
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    There is the opportunity
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    to sequester a great deal of carbon
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    in topsoils around the world
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    by changing the agricultural techniques.
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    There is a farmer-led movement to do that.
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    We need to also retrofit buildings.
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    We need to change our management
    of forests and the ocean.
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    But let me just mention
    two things briefly.
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    First of all, the high
    temperature use cases.
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    Angela Merkel, just 10 days ago,
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    with the leadership of
    her Minister Peter Altmaier,
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    who is a good friend
    and a great public servant,
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    have just embarked on
    a green hydrogen strategy
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    to make hydrogen
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    with zero marginal cost renewable energy.
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    And just a word on that, Chris,
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    you've heard about the intermittency
    of wind and solar.
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    Solar doesn't produce electricity
    when the sun's not shining
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    and wind doesn't
    when the wind's not blowing.
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    But batteries are getting better,
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    and these technologies are becoming
    much more efficient and powerful,
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    so that for an increasing
    number of hours of each day,
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    they're producing often way more
    electricity than can be used.
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    So what to do with it?
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    The marginal cost for
    the next kilowatt-hour is zero.
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    So all of a sudden,
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    the very energy-intensive process
    of cracking hydrogen from water
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    becomes economically feasible,
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    and it can be substituted
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    for coal and gas,
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    and that's already being done.
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    There's a Swedish company
    already making steel
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    with green hydrogen,
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    and as I say Germany has just embarked
    on a major new initiative to do that.
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    I think they're pointing the way
    for the rest of the world.
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    Now, where building retrofits
    are concerned, just a moment on this,
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    because about 20 to 25 percent
    of the global warming pollution
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    in the world and in the US
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    comes from inefficient buildings
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    that were constructed
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    by companies and individuals
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    who were trying to be competitive
    in the marketplace
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    and keep their margins acceptably high
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    and thereby skimping on insulation
    and the right windows
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    and LEDs and the rest.
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    And yet the person or company
    that buys that building
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    or leases that building,
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    they want their monthly
    utility bills much lower.
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    So there are now ways
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    to close that so-called
    agent-principal divide,
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    the differing incentives
    for the building and occupier,
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    and we can retrofit buildings with
    a program that literally pays for itself
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    over three to five years,
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    and we could put tens of millions
    of people to work
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    in jobs that by definition
    cannot be outsourced
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    because they exist
    in every single community.
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    And we really ought to get serious
    about doing this,
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    because we're going to need all those jobs
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    to get sustainable prosperity
    in the aftermath of this pandemic.
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    CA: Just coming back
    to the hydrogen economy
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    that you referred to there,
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    when some people hear that,
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    they think, oh, are you talking
    about hydrogen-fueled cars?
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    And they've heard that that
    probably won't be a winning strategy.
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    But you're thinking much more
    broadly than that, I think,
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    that it's not just hydrogen
    as a kind of storage mechanism
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    to act as a buffer for renewable energy,
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    but also hydrogen could be essential
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    for some of the other processes
    in the economy like making steel,
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    making cement
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    that are fundamentally
    carbon-intensive processes right now
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    but could be transformed if we had
    much cheaper sources of hydrogen.
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    Is that right?
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    AG: Yes, I was always skeptical
    about hydrogen, Chris,
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    principally because it's been so expensive
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    to make it,
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    to crack it out of water, as they say.
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    But the game-changer has been
    the incredible abundance
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    of solar and wind electricity
    in volumes and amounts
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    that people didn't expect,
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    and all of a sudden
    it's cheap enough to use
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    for these very energy-intensive processes
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    like creating green hydrogen.
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    I'm still a bit skeptical
    about using it in vehicles.
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    Toyota's been betting on that for 25 years
    and hasn't really worked for them.
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    Never say never, maybe it will,
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    but I think it's most useful for these
    high-temperature industrial processes,
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    and we already have a pathway
    for decarbonizing transportation
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    with electricity
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    that's working extremely well.
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    Tesla's going to be soon the most valuable
    automobile company in the world,
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    already in the US,
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    and they're about to overtake Toyota.
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    There is now a semi truck company
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    that's been stood up by Tesla
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    and another that is going to be a hybrid
    with electricity and green hydrogen,
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    so we'll see whether or not
    they can make it work in that application.
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    But I think electricity
    is preferable for cars and trucks.
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    CA: We're coming to some
    community questions in a minute.
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    Let me ask you, though, about nuclear.
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    Some environmentalists
    believe that nuclear,
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    or maybe new generation nuclear power
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    is an essential part of the equation
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    if we're to get to a truly clean future,
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    a clean energy future.
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    Are you still pretty skeptical
    on nuclear, Al?
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    AG: Well, the market's skeptical
    about it, Chris.
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    It's been a crushing disappointment
    for me and for so many.
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    I used to represent Oak Ridge,
    where nuclear energy began,
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    and when I was a young congressman
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    I was a booster.
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    I was very enthusiastic about it.
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    But the cost overruns
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    and the problems in building these plants
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    have become so severe
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    that utilities just don't have
    an appetite for them.
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    It's become the most expensive
    source of electricity.
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    Now, let me hasten to add
    that there are some older nuclear reactors
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    that have more useful time
    that could be added on to their lifetimes,
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    and like a lot of environmentalists
    I've come to the view
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    that if they can be determined to be safe,
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    they should be allowed to continue
    operating for a time.
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    But where new nuclear
    power plants are concerned,
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    here's a way to look at it.
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    If you are -- you've been a CEO, Chris.
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    If you were the CEO of --
    I guess you still are.
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    If you were the CEO
    of an electric utility,
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    and you told your executive team,
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    "I want to build a nuclear power plant,"
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    two of the first questions
    you would ask are, number one,
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    how much will it cost?
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    And there's not a single
    engineering consulting firm
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    that I've been able to find
    anywhere in the world
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    that will put their name on an opinion
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    giving you a cost estimate.
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    They just don't know.
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    A second question you would ask is,
    how long will it take to build it
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    so we can start selling the electricity?
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    And again the answer you will get is,
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    we have no idea.
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    So if you don't know
    how much it's going to cost,
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    and you don't know
    when it's going to be finished,
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    and you already know that
    the electricity is more expensive
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    than the alternate ways to produce it,
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    that's going to be a little discouraging,
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    and in fact that's been the case
    for utilities around the world.
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    CA: OK.
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    So there's definitely
    an interesting debate there,
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    but we're going to come on
    to some community questions.
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    Let's have the first
    of those questions up please.
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    From Prosanta Chakrbarty:
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    "People who are skeptical
    of COVID and of climate change
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    seem to be skeptical
    of science in general.
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    It may be that the singular
    message from scientists
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    gets diluted and convoluted.
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    How do we fix that?
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    AG: Yeah, that's
    a great question, Prosanta.
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    Boy, I'm trying to put this
    succinctly and shortly.
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    I think that there has been
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    a feeling that experts in general
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    have kind of let the US down,
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    and that feeling is much more pronounced
    in the US than in most other countries.
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    And I think that considered opinion
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    of what we call experts
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    has been diluted over the last few decades
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    by the unhealthy dominance
    of big money in our political system
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    which has found ways
    to really twist economic policy
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    to benefit elites,
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    and this sounds a little radical
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    but it's actually what has happened.
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    And we have gone for more than 40 years
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    without any meaningful increase
    in middle income pay,
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    and where the injustice experienced
    by African Americans
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    and other communities
    of color are concerned,
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    the differential in pay between
    African Americans and majority Americans
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    is the same as it was in 1968,
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    and the family wealth,
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    the net worth,
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    it takes 11 and a half so-called
    "typical" African American families
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    to make up the net worth of one
    so-called "typical" White American family.
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    And you look at the soaring incomes
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    in the top one
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    or the top one tenth of one percent,
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    and people say, "Wait a minute.
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    Whoever the experts were
    that designed these policies,
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    they haven't been doing
    a good job for me."
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    A final point, Chris,
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    there has been an assault on reason.
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    There has been a war against truth.
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    There has been a strategy,
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    maybe it was best known as a strategy
    decades ago by the tobacco companies
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    who hired actors and dressed them up
    as doctors to falsely reassure people
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    that there were no health consequences
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    from smoking cigarettes,
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    and a hundred million people
    died as a result.
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    That same strategy of diminishing
    the significance of truth,
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    diminishing, as someone said,
    the authority of knowledge,
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    I think that has made it open season
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    on any inconvenient truth --
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    forgive another buzz phrase --
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    but it is apt.
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    We cannot abandon our devotion
    to the best available evidence
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    tested in reasoned discourse
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    and used as the basis
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    for the best policies we can form.
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    CA: Is it possible, Al,
    that one consequence of the pandemic
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    is actually a growing number of people
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    have revisited their opinions
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    on scientists?
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    I mean, you've had a chance
    in the last few months to say,
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    do I trust my political leader
    or do I trust this scientist
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    in terms of what they're saying
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    about this virus.
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    Maybe lessons from that
    could be carried forward?
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    AG: Well, you know, I think
    if the polling is accurate,
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    people do trust their doctors
    a lot more than some of the politicians
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    who seem to have a vested interest
    in pretending the pandemic isn't real.
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    And if you look at the incredible bust
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    at President Trump's rally in Tulsa,
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    a stadium of 19,000 people
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    with less than one third filled,
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    according to the fire marshal,
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    you saw all the empty seats
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    if you saw the news clips,
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    so even the most loyal Trump supporters
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    must have decided to trust their doctors
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    and the medical advice
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    rather than Dr. Donald Trump.
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    CA: With a little help from
    the TikTok generation, per chance.
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    AG: Well, but that didn't
    affect the turnout.
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    What they did, very cleverly,
    and I'm cheering them on,
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    what they did was affect
    the Trump White House's expectations.
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    They're the reason why he went out
    a couple days beforehand
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    and said, "We've had
    a million people sign up."
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    But they didn't prevent,
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    they didn't take seats that others
    could have otherwise taken.
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    They didn't affect the turnout,
    just the expectations.
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    CA: OK, let's have our next question here.
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    "Are you concerned the world will rush
    back to the use of the private car
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    out of fear of using
    shared public transportation?"
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    AG: Well, that could actually be
    one of the consequences, absolutely.
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    Now, the trends on mass transit
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    were already inching
    in the wrong direction
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    because of Uber and Lyft
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    and the ridesharing services,
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    and if autonomy ever reaches the goals
    that its advocates have hoped for
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    then that may also have a similar effect.
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    But there's no doubt that some people
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    are gonna be probably a little more
    reluctant to take mass transportation
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    until the fear of this pandemic
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    is well and truly gone.
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    CA: Yeah. Might need
    a vaccine on that one.
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    AG: (Laughs) Yeah.
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    CA: Next question.
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    Sonaar Luthra, thank you
    for this question from LA.
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    "Given the temperature rise
    in the Arctic this past week,
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    seems like the rate
    we are losing our carbon sinks
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    like permafrost or forests is accelerating
    faster than we predicted.
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    Are our models too focused
    on human emissions?"
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    Interesting question.
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    AG: Well, the models are focused
    on the factors that have led
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    to these incredible temperature spikes
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    in the north of the Arctic Circle.
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    They were predicted,
    they have been predicted,
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    and one of the reasons for it
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    is that as the snow and ice cover melts,
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    the sun's incoming rays
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    are no longer reflected back into space
    at a 90 percent rate,
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    and instead when they fall on
    the dark tundra or the dark ocean,
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    they're absorbed at a 90 percent rate.
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    So that's a magnifier
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    of the warming in the Arctic,
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    and this has been predicted.
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    There are a number of other consequences
    that are also in the models,
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    but some of them
    may have to be recalibrated.
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    The scientists are freshly concerned
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    that the emissions of both CO2 and methane
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    from the thawing tundra
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    could be larger than they
    had hoped they would be.
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    There's also just been a brand new study.
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    I won't spend time on this,
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    because it deals with a kind of geeky term
    called "climate sensitivity,"
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    which has been a factor in the models
    with large error bars
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    because it's so hard to pin down.
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    But the latest evidence
    indicates worryingly
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    that the sensitivity may be
    greater than they had thought,
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    and we will have
    an even more daunting task.
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    That shouldn't discourage us.
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    I truly believe that once
    we cross this tipping point,
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    and I do believe we're doing it now,
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    as I've said,
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    then I think we're going to find
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    a lot of ways to speed up
    the emissions reductions.
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    CA: We'll take one more question
    from the community.
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    Haha. "Geoengineering
    is making extraordinary progress.
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    Exxon is investing in technology
    from Global Thermostat
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    that seems promising.
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    What do you think of these air and water
    carbon capture technologies?"
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    Stephen Petranek.
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    AG: Yeah.
Title:
The new urgency of climate change
Speaker:
Al Gore
Description:

more » « less
Video Language:
English
Team:
closed TED
Project:
TEDTalks
Duration:
56:45

English subtitles

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