Subtle Signs Your “Church” Is Secretly a Cult

How do I know if I'm in a cult?

Maybe it's a church that I'm a part
of that could be a cult.

Maybe it's not one of these groups.

A cult that denies the Trinity,
which most of these do, run from that.

That's not sound doctrine.

I would see a cult as a group
or groups that claim to be Christian

but deviate significantly
from core biblical doctrine.

A lot of times they claim to have some
special revelations, some insight that

might beyond what the scriptures say.

Then they start twisting
and turning who Jesus is.

What are some signs that someone can
look at and say, Okay, this is a cult?

Cults are using a different tactic
than what we're talking about,

that even Christian churches
can sometimes cross that line.

God forbid, you might
actually learn the truth.

We want to keep you isolated.

I want to interpret scripture for you.

Don't listen to the church
fathers, the councils.

Throw that stuff out.
Listen to me.

I've got the revelation.

If you've never been a part
of a controlling body or a cult

or a group that's like this, you don't
understand the power of brainwashing.

There's a lot of mind games and tricks
and things going on to make sure that

that person stays loyal All these people
would say they're Christians.

Right.

I mean, they all do.
Your salvation is at stake.

Yes.

So if you have the wrong Jesus,
you can't be saved.

There's salvation through faith in Jesus.

If you have the wrong Jesus,
you can't be saved.

We're talking It's all about poor things
that matter for your eternal destiny.

It damages your soul.

Welcome, everybody.

Alan Parr here, and I'm with
my good friend Brian Dwier.

You might be familiar with him.

If you saw one of my previous videos
that we did on Morganism, Brian is here.

He came in town.

We decided we wanted
to do something together.

Guys, we've got
an amazing amazing three-part series.

You're not going to want to miss.

All three of these videos
are going to be truly inspiring,

and they're going to be enlightening.

Brian, welcome, my brother.
Glad you're back.

It's good to be here.

I'm excited to get
into these topics with you.

Brian, let's jump in because we got
some interesting groups to discuss.

What are the big three that we would
say could be considered or at some point

in the past, maybe other people
have said that these groups

are a cult, whether they are or not,
they have been called that.

What are the big three?

Well, so we already
talked about Morganism.

And again, in Utah, people do not like...

I would never refer to Morganism as a cult
in my church on a Sunday morning.

Even on our podcast,
we're really careful not to...

Because you're going
to lose the audience right away.

They're going to get offended.

Normands don't view themselves
as a cult, and we'll get into how

we define cult in a second.

The second group is,
and we already did the one.

We're not going to revisit that one,
but it'll be included in the series.

The second group then would be
the Jehovah's Witnesses.

A lot of people know Jehovah's Witnesses.

These are the guys, just
like Romans, that come to your door.

This is why I think we
all know these guys.

Then the third one is, this is the one
where you're probably going to get

some comments, is Seventh Day Adventists.

We're going to talk
a little bit about why...

That's probably the ish part of it.

Why would some people consider
Seventh Day Adventists to be a cult?

We're going to get into all of that.

The reason these are the big three is
because these are the Christian cults

that have, I think, seventh to Adventists,

over 22 million worldwide, Romans, almost

18 million worldwide, and then Jehovah's
This is about eight million-ish worldwide.

These are big.

There's tons of other cults
that are smaller groups, 100,000,

50,000, but these are the big ones
that we want to focus on.

We're not going to be able to cover
all of them, but we will definitely We'll

cover these three, or at least these two.

We've already done Romanism, as you said.

Let's jump in.

Let's just first talk about
what is a cult, because I think a lot

of people might have that question.

How do I know if I'm in a cult?

Maybe it's a church that I'm a part
of that could be a cult.

Maybe it's not one of these groups.

I'm going to define a cult in this way.

I would see a cult as a group
or groups that claim to be Christian

but deviate significantly
from core biblical doctrine.

There's these doctrines, which
we'll talk about here in just a moment,

that Christianity has held near and dear
for centuries, for millennia, really.

But these groups, they deviate or diverge
to some degree on some of the main ones,

and they're very, very important ones.

Now, I want to make sure
this disclaimer is there also.

I don't think we're saying that
every single person who claims to be in

this group aligns with every single thing
that that group represents.

Right.

Well, yeah, even in Utah, I've been in
Utah for 25 years doing ministry among my

neighbors and lots of people coming out
of Romanism, coming to faith in Christ.

Anytime I talk to someone on the street
and say, Here's what you believe,

that's not a good way to start
a conversation because they're like,

That's not what I believe.

Well, that's what Joseph Smith teaches.

That's what Birgham Young teaches.

That's what's on the website,
the official website.

And what we've learned over the years is
so many people say, I don't believe that.

I don't know if I would say it like that.

I don't know if I would buy into that.

So I think it's good for us to remember
this, for the listeners to remember this.

If we've got Christian listeners
that are going to try to take this to

their Mormon friend or J.
W.

Friend, I think let them speak
for themselves, what they believe,

what they don't believe, maybe have more
of a conversation around it rather

than point a finger and say, This
is what I saw on Alan Parr's channel.

This is what you believe.

It's like, Well, how are you
going to tell me what I believe?

Ask me.

Jesus even did that.

Jesus was always asking people,
just the brilliance of Jesus.

He was always asking people questions.

Now, he knew where he was
trying to lead them to.

That's really the goal for this whole
series is we want to give people the tools

to really pull back the curtain on all
these cults so that you can then be ready,

prayerfully, led by the Holy spirit
to have a conversation that can

get somewhere with somebody.
Yeah.

I know we're going
to dig into signs that your church,

and I'm putting church in quotations
because all these organizations claim to

have churches or wards or whatever they
want to call them Halls, if you will.

But there could be people
that are actually in Christian

churches, and they could be called.

We're going to look at that in terms
of signs that they're called.

But let's briefly talk about how a lot
of these cults get started,

because it's very interesting.

A lot of them, they start
with a charismatic leader.

Somebody, and we say charismatic,
I'm not saying their theology or their

doctrine is charismatic, but their style,
their energy,

their magnetic type of mentality
personality, being able to get people

to rally around them,
a lot of times they claim to have some

special revelation,
some insight that might be beyond what

the scriptures say, as we're going to get
into that in just a moment,

distorting the gospel.

Oftentimes, they claim to address
some unmet need or some spiritual

emotional need, offering certainty,
times of confusion or whatever.

Or let's talk about this idea
of restoring, restoration.

Creation or whatever.
We're going to restore the lost truth.

Well, yeah, because that's what
all three of these...

It's really interesting as we've studied
and prepped for this and dug into this,

I didn't even realize how much overlap
there was between these three groups,

Romans, seventh Day and Jehovah's
Witnesses in that order, historically.

All of this stuff was born out of a period
in time that maybe some of our listeners

would remember from junior high
or high school history class,

the second great Awakening.

All right, so American
history, first great Awakening

was This was like Jonathan Edwards.

This was like pre-Revolutionary War.

That was the first great Awakening.

Religious fervor in the Americas,
lots of people come into faith.

Second great Awakening
started in about 1790,

and it lasted until about 1830, 1840.

Now, When you think about this time
period, keep these dates in mind

over these next few weeks
as we talk about these different groups.

All of this stuff happened.

These groups all were born in that same,
basically, that same period of time.

It was a movement called
the restorationist movement.

Let me explain that to
our Christian listeners like this.

We all know about Martin Luther
and the Reformation.

Martin Luther was a Catholic monk
who wanted to reform the Catholic Church.

It didn't work out that They ended up
starting this reformation movement,

and all these Protestant denominations
were protesting the Catholic Church.

So that was in the '15, '1600s.

That was the reformation.

In 1801, the restorationist movement
started, and the difference is that they

were trying to not reform something.

They were trying to restore
the original church.

So all these groups in the Second Great
Awakening, and I think it started, Alan,

with the right heart, the right mindset.

All these groups are like,
why do we have all these denominations?

Why do we have all this hierarchy and all
these buildings and all this structure?

And Cane Ridge Revival, 1801,
Restoration Movement kicks off there

with this huge revival.

And all these preachers,
a lot of these guys were Baptists,

and they were just preaching like,
let's get back to the Bible.

And people were like, yes,
on the frontier.

Yes, let's get back to the Bible.

So again, good, I think,
It's a lot of positive stuff.

In fact, a lot of people would say
the non-denominational movement,

which is so huge in America today, has
its roots in restorationism, in a sense.

Let's just try to keep it simple, get back
to the basics, strip the churches

away from all this hierarchy.
Tradition.

That's good as far as it goes.

The problem is it also then
was the breeding ground for

all of these cults because now
you get these other characters

that come forward, like Joseph Smith.

He came out of the
restorationist movement.

In fact, one of the key figures that
he recruits out of the restorationist

movement, a previous Baptist preacher
named Sydney Rigdon, converts

to Romanism when Joseph Smith
published the Book of Norman in 1830.

We have all this overlap
between these movements.

We're going to see the Millerite movement.

We're going to get into all
this in this series.

Miller was a Baptist preacher, and he was

encouraging this restoration thing.

His was connected more to eschatology.

The point is, all these cults were born.

It's almost like the wheat and the tares
were all growing up together.

The crazy thing is, some of these big

three movements are still around today.

But it all started in
the Second Great Awakening,

which was a good thing at first,
but it gave birth to some of these cults.

Guys, I want you all to keep in mind some
of these key dates, specifically 1844.

We're going to talk about that.

That's a key date, and his history
is very, very important.

Yeah, let me give a preview
of 1844, because this is crazy.

Being in Utah, I always knew that date
as the year that Joseph Smith in Romanism

ran for President, along with
Sydney Rigdon as his vice President.

That was 1844.

He didn't end up running
because he was killed that year.

That was the same year that the Millerites
said that Jesus was going to come back,

and we'll We'll talk about this
when we get into that lesson.

But that was known as
the great disappointment

because Jesus didn't come back.

The Millarites fade away, and out of that
comes the seventh day adventice.

Out of the seventh day adventice
comes the Jehovah's Witnesses later on.

All of these are connected.

To me, that's just
fascinating as a history guy.

Yeah, totally.

Let's jump into the topic
of this particular video, guys.

This is really the intro
video for the series.

We wanted to lay a groundwork,
but let's talk about some signs

that you're in a cult.

As we look at this,
what are some things that,

whether you are in a group that claims
to be Christian or maybe you're

in a church that is a Christian church or
whatnot, but what are some signs

that someone can look at and say,
Okay, this is a cult?

What would you say would be the first one?

Well, first of all, I think when we were
talking about this, Alan, we were like,

I think we started with seven,
and then we whittled it down to five.

It's really three main things
that we're looking at.

I think you've already
addressed the first one.

It's distortion of literature.

It's distortion of sound doctrine.

I think when we get into that,
I think it's like trying

to identify a counterfeit.
You better know the real thing.

If you're going to be able to identify a
cult, so it's distorting sound doctrine,

you better know what sound doctrine is.

I know that's what your
channel is all about.

Yeah, totally.

A lot of times, and it's interesting
as we did the research, a lot of times,

some of these cults, they started with
one person maybe doing Bible studies

with a group of students or whatnot.

It's starting somewhat innocent
with maybe possibly good intentions

and good motivations.

But when you have someone claiming to have
special revelations,

special understanding,
insight God hasn't shown anybody else

throughout church history or visions,
a lot of those golden plates and things

like that, or I've received a special
vision from God that nobody's

ever received throughout history.

This is where some of this stuff
It happens and you got these groups

of people that are attending
these Bible studies and say, Oh, wow.

We see that going on today still
because so many people now,

it's the same concept.

It's amazing how history repeats itself.

People want art.

It's like the old word of God
is not good enough anymore.

We're always seeking for some fresh new
revelation, fresh new insight,

which is why so many people nowadays
are on YouTube and they're claiming

to be prophets and they have
this special word from God.

The body of Christ is so hungry for it.

It's like the Bible is not enough.

It's like we need to get something new.

I think that's also what
contributed a lot of this stuff.

Well, and think about what
you just said about YouTube.

I mean, it's all about you
on your own channel, right?

I mean, everyone can just
start their own channel.

I'll just need a phone now.

You don't even need all the fancy gear.

I don't think people realize that
the roots of all of this

was in the first great awakening.

The first great awakening in Jonathan
Edwards, this was the first time

the message of the Bible, the message
of Jesus, the message of the individual.

We're talking about individualism,
empowerment, individualism.

It's not about institutions.

It's not about it's not about Kings.

It's not about princes.

It's about the power of the individual.
Think about this.

Most historians agree that this message,
biblical message of freedom that we have,

liberty, and we're going
to be coming back to that in this series,

that that's a good thing
that turned into a bad thing.

In America, it was a good thing
because the first great awakening

happened, and religiously,
all these people said, Wait, I'm free.

And now all the revolutionaries,
the American Revolution,

were like, Wait, we're free.

That's when they declared
independence from...

Fast forward to second great
awakening, same thing, more

individualism, more empowerment.

Now we're going to see these characters
who come up who are empowered

to have their own prophecys
and have their own visions and

write their own stuff, it's empowerment.

We live in a culture today
that's like 10X, 100X.

It's ripe for that.

Yeah.

It's like everyone feels like
their opinion matters, This is what we do

is now here's scripture, but
my opinion is right up here.

For cult, it's almost like
my opinion is above scripture.

I'm going to tell you
how to read scripture.

Speaking of that, this first point
about one of the key signs of a cult

is distortion of scripture and sound

doctrine, but also these other writings

that they say that are either
on the same level as scripture.

In some groups that we're going
to talk about might say, well, we don't

necessarily say it's on the same level.

But when you see how much that

particular person's prophecy influences

their doctrine, it's like, okay, Well, it
seems like it's on the same level, right?

When we have these groups
that have these extra writings,

as you know, the Mormons have the Pearl
of Great Price,

the doctrine and covenants,
the Book of Norman, and then the Bible,

and probably in that order,
maybe the Book of Mormen or whatever,

because the Bible is not their core.

It's like, okay, the Bible is true as long
as it's interpreted correctly.

How do we know if it is?

Well, look at the other three
because they're newer.

They're testing the Bible's
interpretation or accuracy based on.

Then Jehovah's Witnesses, they have
their New World translation with

all the markups and things like that,
which we'll talk about in a coming video.

Then you have the writings of L.
G.

White, which some would say,
okay, are you all seeing these professes

and writings as being on the same level.

Some may argue no, some may argue yes.

We'll get into that as well.
Yeah.

I think this is where we come back to
the reformation idea of sola scriptura.

We look at scripture as the authority.

Remember, when Martin Luther
did this in the Reformation time, it was

all about saying, it's not the Pope,
it's not the Church, it's the Bible.

The Bible is our guide.

We're going to let the Bible speak.

The first one of the of a cult is that

they're elevating some human beings'

interpretation of it, or there's
some revelation or another writing.

I just can't imagine if we have watch
churches that are saying, wait a second,

that's what my church is doing.
You might be in a cult.

Exactly.

Like, Warning, you might be in a cult.

Yeah.

Let's stay with that for just
a moment because we're talking

about this idea of distortion
of scripture and sound doctrine.

Another major flag, red flag that

something is a cult is if there is any

deviation in terms of the interpretation
of the deity of Christ or the humanity

of Christ, just the person of Christ.

When we look at Christ, the church
has historically taught that Christ

is fully man and fully God.

He is fully divine.

He has a fully human nature.

It's called the hypostatic union.

We understand that.

This is something that
the church, the church fathers,

it's in all of our creeds.

It was established through
different councils and things like that.

This is what the church has passed down.

You have some of these churches,
excuse me, rather, you have some of

these groups that are trying to say

that Jesus is something other than that,

or are they putting a certain twist on.

Some of them just come straight out
and say Jesus is just not God, but others

are adding an extra twist, which
we'll get into as we get in the series.

Yeah, and that's called
Charistology, right?

So I think when we think about
the distortion of doctrine,

we're not bringing to the table
a list of 20 things.

We're keeping it simple.

There's just a few things on the list.

We mentioned it, do you believe the Bible
is the inherent word of God?

The cults don't.

Do you believe that Jesus is
who the Bible says he is and even who

the councils, the Christian councils say?

Because most of these cults
say that the church was apostate.

The restoration movement was It's all
about saying, I'm going to restore to the

early church, the first century church.

Well, what about the creeds?

No, I mean, Morganism
throws the creeds out.

No, the church was
already apostate by then.

We're going back.

We're going to restore to the early church
Well, how do we know what the truth is?

Well, don't listen to the creeds.

Don't listen to the church
fathers, the councils.

Throw that stuff out.
Listen to me.

I've got the new revelation.

Then they start twisting
and turning who Jesus Jesus is.

That's Christology.

I think that related to that then is
just theology proper, like God himself,

specifically Trinitarian doctrine.

A cult that denies the Trinity,
which most of these do, run from that.

That's not sound doctrine.

I think the last one that would
make our list, Alan, is the fancy word

of sotereology, which is salvation.

Salvation by works.

Teaching salvation by works, exactly.

A lot of these groups, if When
you really dig into what they believe,

it is teaching a salvation by works.

There's no assurance of salvation.

They might say on the surface,
We believe in salvation by grace,

but I believe even in Romanism,
it talks about, what does it say?

I'm saved by grace, but then
only as much as I can do or something.

After all I can do or something like that.

I was like, wait a second,
that's not salvation by grace.

When you look at even Jehovah's
Witnesses, which we'll talk about,

it seems to be it's like, hey,
yeah, I'm going I'm going to be saved,

but I better do door-to-door evangelism.

I better do all these different things,
which we'll get into in another video.

Some have even made the case that
Seventh Day adventist teach salvation

by works, although we'll talk about that.

I know they would not
say that, but some have.

We're going to explore why
some may have made that claim

that they teach salvation by works.

To me, this then morphs into the next mark

of a cult in its high control leadership.

Here's where those connect.

I think if you teach some form
of salvation by works, now

you can control your people
because now you control with fear.

That's why Romans go door to door.

Jehovah's Witnesses go door to door.

I mean, that's part of the work
that they have to do in order to possibly

be counted among the 144,000.

Or Romans want to be
the God of their own planet.

They live their lives in fear, have a lot
of children, do different things like

that because it's like, I need to ascend.

Yeah.

I think salvation by works,
more than any other doctrinal

errancy, salvation by works is what leads
to the ability for these leaders,

and not just the original leaders,
but even just the current leaders,

the bishops and whatever they call them.

Those guys have such control
because they've convinced their people

that if they don't keep this list
of rules, then they're not going to

get into heaven or paradise or
whatever they call it in their religion.

I know recently, it's interesting,
both of us came across the same acronym

that I was blown away.

I've never heard this acronym before,
but it's an acronym that I found really

helped me understand this idea of high
control leadership, this authoritarian

leadership, which is basically
at the forefront of every major cult.

You have this person
that's controlling things.

The acronym is called BIT.

Let's dig into this idea
of BIT, this acronym.

Excuse me, acronym.

Just to be fair, it's an acronym that was
developed by a guy named Stephen Hassan.

It's a framework to identify
a cult-like type of behavior The B stands

for behavioral or behavior control.

By the way, I like this acronym
because it's not just

applying to these fringe groups.

You can see these signs oftentimes.

I know I've been a part of churches
that I've seen these four signs in.

They're not Jehovah's Witness, they're not
Adventism, they're not Mormonism.

These are churches
who claim to be Christ-following,

non-denominational churches,
but they exhibit these four things.

So behavior control.
What's that all about?

Well, yeah.

I'm thinking about a Christian listeners
right now, and they're thinking,

well, wait a second.

My church says
you shouldn't have premarital sex.

I agree with that.
My church says you You shouldn't be drunk.

You shouldn't get drunk.

We teach that in our church.

So is my church a cult?

You're trying to control my behavior.

Yeah, you're trying
to control my behavior.

The difference is about just
how controlling cults can be.

Cults are using a different tactic
than what we're talking about.

What we would say in our churches is we're
as followers of Jesus, we live to honor

God, and the Holy spirit is in us to move
us to be obedient to his Commandments.

And so we do want to be
obedient to his Commandments.

But you cross a That's a line,
I think, with behavior control.

I think even in Christian
churches, you can do this, Alan.

You and I were talking about this earlier
today, that even Christian churches

can sometimes cross that line.
Yes.

Perfect example.

If the church says, Hey,
we want to try to control your behavior

by teaching a message of abstinence.

Well, okay, first of all, you can't
control somebody's behavior.

But if you want to motivate or influence
somebody to do that, that's great

because that's consistent with the Bible.

But when you start going beyond
start saying things like, Okay,

you can't go on a vacation together
with your friends for spring break.

I remember when I was in college and I was
involved in a church that I felt like was

very cultic or very cultish, if you will.

They told us as young juniors and seniors

in college that we couldn't take

spring break and go to Virginia Beach
together because they thought that we'd

be tempted to lust or whatever.

Is that in the Bible?

Does the Bible clearly say
that we can't go and enjoy ourselves.

When you start to find these groups
that are going so far beyond what

the written word says,
an attempt to try to control your life,

or they mandate that you check
in with them because they want to play

the Holy spirit in your life instead
of trusting what the spirit is doing.

You have to check in with me
before you date somebody,

or you have to get this person
to get my approval before they date.

This is where I start to
talk about the behavior control.

Or on top of that, I'll add one more
Another thing that we'll get into in the

series is when the behavior that they're
trying to control isn't even biblical.

In Normanism, you got
to wear special underwear.

Really?
Yeah, there's Norman underwear.

I'm sorry.

I didn't mean to laugh,
but I never heard that one before.

It's true.

Yeah, and it's sold by the church,
and it's like the card-carrying Mormons

wear this special underwear.

Where's that in the Bible?

You can't drink coffee.

Good Mormons don't drink coffee.

Good Mormons don't drink beer.

Now, drunkenness isn't good.

The Bible talks about drunkenness.

But having a beer, having a glass
of wine isn't sinful necessarily.

I think in Seventh Adventism,
it's this behavior control around some

of the food stuff, some of the stuff that
they eat, vegetarianism, stuff like that.

The worshiping on Saturday, we'll
get into this, specifically dogmatically

worshiping on Saturday, behavior control.

It's not just how much
they're controlling it.

It's even just like, why?

That's not even in the Bible.

Now it's manmade rules, which starts
to remind us of the phariseism that Jesus

was always speaking out against.
Yeah.

Along those same lines of behavior
control, a lot of times I've also

seen they want to control the types
of relationships you have.

Also even going as far as controlling and
saying, Hey, we want to prohibit you from

having relationships with people outside
of our organization in fear that if

you get too many of these, it's going to
influence you to think to think about...

It's going to influence your thoughts,
and God forbid, you might actually

learn the truth.

We want to keep you isolated and
insulated, if you will, in this bubble.

That's the B, right?

That's the B in bite.

Let's move on to the I Okay.

Information control.

That one's a key one, right?

You have behavior control
and information control.

What's that one about?

Well, again, in Morganism,
this is what I'm most familiar with.

You are You are not allowed to
listen to our podcast.

You're not allowed to read books
like Kingdom of the Colts

back in the '80s, '70s, and '80s.

There's a blacklist.

Even The co-hosts
of our Unvailing Mormonism podcast, you

could tell they've been out of Mormonism
for a couple of years, but you can tell

that they're still sensitive to that.

They're like, We don't want
this podcast to be blacklisted,

but they recognize it's going to be.

It's going to be because anything
that's going to speak out,

that's going to challenge the prophets
and the way that they view things,

and that's information control.

Alan, I think about this.

I don't know if you ever went to a church
where they're like, You can't read

this book and that book and that book.

I mean, I've never said to anyone
in our church, You can't

read the Book of Mormon.
I'm like, Read the Book of Mormon.

Yeah, absolutely.

I have people come in sometimes
saying, My Mormon neighbor

has invited me to come to church.
I said, Go.

Go with them to church and then
invite them to come back.

We got nothing to be afraid of.
Exactly.

We know the truth is going
to stand the test of time.

I think anyone who's listening to this who
says, Oh, my gosh, I might be in a cult.

Because, yeah, there's a blacklist.

I'm not allowed to read these books
or look into these questions that I have.

Yeah, so information control.
That's the I.

Now let's get into the T.

This is related to it in some degree.

The behavior control, information
control, thought control.

This is the idea that it basically
discourages independent thinking

and critical analysis.
It's like, I don't want you.

I want to think for you.

I want to interpret scripture for you.

You need to come and we're
the gatekeepers of truth.

You need to trust me or us
for your understanding of truth.

I want to limit how much you think
and start critically because the fear is

that if you start critiquing some of these
things, if you start to truly analyze,

and I think that's what's happening
in a lot of these cults is that

I'm sure that you probably have talked
to people who've come out of mormism,

and they probably said, Wow, I've never
really thought about it like that.

I've never really been
challenged to think of this.

I've always been drilled on this is
what it is, and this is what it's going

to be because this is what we teach.

I think a lot of these groups,
they discourage you from having

your own independent thought,
independent thinking.

Well, part of the way they do it,
you already mentioned this, is isolation.

Most of these groups, all these groups
that we're talking All these groups

that we're talking about are very
isolationist.

Romanism, again, I'll speak to that.

It's 2024, and I meet Romans who have
never met a Christian, who have never had

a relationship with a Christian before.

Could you imagine that in 2024?

That people who don't...

They're so sheltered, especially in Utah,
because in Utah, the Romans moved out

to Utah, and they had all this time
to develop their own society.

It wasn't even the United meets yet
when the Mormons, when Brigham Young

led the Mormons to Utah.

It was a Mexican territory at the time.

They've had all this time
to create their own little bubble.

Now what's happened in the last five years
is that bubble is bursting.

There are all these people moving
from Texas and from California

and from all around the country,
and they're starting to lose their

influence over people's thoughts because
the more that they interact

with Christians, the more they
hear It's conversations like this.

You can't escape it.
You can't escape it.

It's harder and harder for these people
to control their members' thoughts.

Yeah, totally.
All right, the E.

This one is huge, and this is one
that, for me, it hits home as well,

this idea of emotional control.

This one is huge because once again, every
cult that you dig into, they have this.

It's this idea of either directly
or indirectly, they're trying

to manipulate the feelings wings
of people within their group, oftentimes

to instill fear or guilt or loyalty.
Those are the three.

Fear, right?

For instance, when a group says,
If you leave this group,

you're going to go to the remotest parts
of hell, or you're going to be shunned,

or you're going to lose family members,
you're going to lose respect or whatever,

or you're going to be kicked out
of the community or whatever.

Who wants to experience that?

Nobody wants to go to hell,
and nobody wants to...

It's like, Okay, Now,
I may not always agree with everything.

I may have some doubts, but man,
if I explore these doubts and these doubts

take me outside of this group,
and if that means because I've been

brainwashed and I've been taught my whole
life that if I leave this group and go

to hell, I'm not going to go anywhere.

Or if I'm going to be shunned from my
community and I'm going to lose my family

members, I'm not going to go anywhere.

It's this manipulation of fear
or guilt a lot of times or loyalty.

They demand, Hey, you must be loyal to me
or to this particular of their group.

When we think about some of the
more fringe cults, you really see this.

This is super obvious,
like the David Koresh.

He ends up just blowing
the whole thing up, right?

But I think with some of these,
most of our viewers probably

have a Mormon friend or neighbor,
Jehovah's Witness friend or neighbor,

and they just seem like normal people.

They even talk like they're Christians.

But I think it's good for people to
understand that there's shame and guilt

and manipulation going on in that church.

And that's one of the reasons that so many
people just won't even watch a video

like this, or they won't even look
into it because they're like, I don't...

If there's even just a little bit
of chance that I'm going

to go to hell forever because of this.

In Romanism, it would be better for you
to never have heard the gospel, the Roman

gospel, than to have heard it, been
a Roman for a while, and rejected it.

And I used to tell missionaries
who came to my door.

I'm like, then why are
you telling me this then?

This isn't helpful for me.

Because in Romanism, they say
that I'll have a chance after I die.

That's what proxy baptisms are all about.

We got into it in the Roman episode.

But I say to Mormons, then why?

If I was a Mormon, the last thing I would
do is tell people about Jesus because all

I'm doing is jeopardizing them because
they could come into the faith and then

become apostate and then go to hell.
Now they're accountable for it.

They've heard it.
Now they've heard it.

Why not just let
the afterlife take care of it.

But again, I think it doesn't
align with scripture that

this emotional manipulation
and control in shame and guilt.

I know some of our Christian listeners
are probably like, well, I have a lot

of shame and guilt when I go
to my church and it's not a cult.

I think, again, we're talking
about a whole different degree

of shame and guilt.

We're not talking about conviction,
which is from the Holy spirit.

We're talking about condemnation
mission, which is from the enemy.

Exactly.

Like I said, I can speak to this because
I've been a part of churches before

where there's so much control.

It's easy to look at these people
and say, man, they're weak-minded.

They should be able to see I'm not sure if
you're familiar with it,

but if you've never been a part
of a controlling body or a cult or a group

that's like this,
you don't understand the power

of brainwashing,
you don't understand the power of

charisma, of a leader,
someone that people love, respect,

and they show so much care for you.
They love you.

You trust them.
You want to be loyal.

You want to please them.

You don't want to let them down.

There's a lot of mind games and tricks
and things going on to make sure

that that person stays loyal,
they're committed, and there's a lot

of fear going on and things like that.

If you leave, if you do this, you're going
to be kicked out of ministry.

You're not going to get a chance
to use your gifts, or if you

leave this church, you're never
going to be welcome back, or you're never

going to find a better church like this.

There's so many The things
that are being said that people are like,

Well, I don't want to do this.

I don't want to do that.
Those are the two things.

You have the first one, which was
the distortion of scripture,

and then the second sign
is the high control leadership,

which we use the biodecronism.

But the third one is
this idea of exclusivity.

Talk to us about that
third sign of a call.

We won't spend too much time on this one,
but this one's pretty important.

Yeah, and it really is every cult
has this, and again, I think all of

our viewers should think about this
with their own church that they go to.

I hope that you don't go to a church
that would say this, but it would say,

We're the one true church.

The only way is if you're a Roman
or if you're a Jehovah's Witness

or a Seventh Day adventist.

I think we need to unpack this a little
bit, Alan, because in some way,

the gospel is very exclusive.
There's one way to heaven.

We're not universalists.

But exclusivity is different.

The cultish exclusivity
is where they say it's our specific

group, our specific group.

Within this larger-Yeah, this larger
movement, Christianity or whatever.

Again, because all these people
would say they're Christians.

Right.

I mean, they all do.

Romans say they're Christians,
and they're even more and more

saying they're Christians, but deep
down, they don't really believe.

They think they're the real Christians,
and we're the ones who are the cult.

They think they're the only ones
are going to heaven.

In fact, I would say this.

I think this is important.

We mentioned this at the top, Alan, that
if you're a Roman or a Jehovah's Witness

or a seventh day adventist,
we're not saying in this series,

we're not saying that you can't
be saved and be in your church.

I'll speak for Romans in particular.

I do think that there are occasional
Romans who genuinely meet Jesus

and respond to the truth of the gospel.

What we just talked about,
salvation by grace through faith.

I don't know if they're not
paying attention in church, so they're

not really getting the Roman thing.
Who knows?

They're by tradition.
They grew up there.

That's where they go.
Because salvation is a spiritual thing.

The Holy spirit does
the work in our hearts.

Holy spirit can save someone
in any church, any church at all.

Conversely, I think there are people
who go to Baptist churches,

non-denominational churches,
Methodist churches who aren't saved.

The church you go to doesn't
mean you're saved or you're not saved.

But to me, the danger is that for most
of these cults, I would say the vast

The majority of the people
do not have saving relationship

with Jesus Christ, but they think that
they're in the exclusive right church.

That spiritual pride, I think,
is the thing that can keep them

from really coming to faith.
Yeah.

We said earlier, we're not
addressing the individual beliefs

of any particular person within.

We're really focusing in this series
on the overarching beliefs

of the organization.

What do you see when
you go to their website?

What do their writing say?

What do their teachers say?
What do their leaders say?

What do they say they
believe which might differ.

Let's land this a little bit and
talk about why does this series matter?

Why is a series like this so important?

I'll just start off with this.

I think there's a couple
of reasons, Brian.

I think there's an internal reason
and there's an external reason.

I think an internal reason is that,
as you mentioned earlier, the more

we understand what we believe
and also what is false out there,

it protects us from false teaching.

It protects us because there's so much
going on, especially now with YouTube,

with everybody claiming to be a prophet.
I mean, it's different.

Even just 10, 15, 20 years ago, before
the advent of social media and YouTube

and all this, we didn't have...

I mean, normally people had...

The church would say, you're a prophet,
or you now have the title prophet

or prophetess or apostle.
So we knew who they were.

Now anybody who has a microphone
and a webcam, it's like,

okay, I'm I'm a prophet.
I'm a prophetess.

A series like this will help us
internally develop sharper discernment

to be able to be protected
from that, but then also externally.

I think it really, really will help us

have better conversations with people

who might be in these groups.

We all know people, maybe they're
neighbors, whether they're coworkers,

maybe even family members or whatever.

I think it's going to help us have better
conversations,

Yeah, and I think that really addressed it
for the Christian viewers,

but I think we should probably finish
by addressing it for the viewers

of members of one of these
three groups as you watch it.

And I hope these viewers will watch and
listen and have an open heart to that.

I know that's so hard to do.

I mean, there's probably some things
in your past that you realize

that you grew up with believing.

It's hard to challenge
beliefs you grew up with.

I grew up in a Pentecostal church
that said you shouldn't drink, dance, or

smoke, or chew or go with girls who do.
Right.

I heard that one.

It was so hard for me to get out
of that mindset to think that if someone

has a beer, they're not going to hell.

I had to really challenge that,
and it's hard to do that.

I recognize it's hard for I
encourage people who are in these groups

to really, with an open heart,
listen to what we're saying.

We're trying to be gracious
and not throw people under the bus,

and we're trying to be fair.

But I think the benefit for them,
there's two benefits for those people.

Number number one, the benefit is eternal.

Like your salvation is at stake.
Yes.

I don't think we can overstate that.
Right.

Yeah, let's be honest about it.

If you have the wrong Jesus,
you can't be saved.

There's salvation through faith in Jesus.

If you have the wrong Jesus,
you can't be saved.

We're not talking about
fringe doctrines here.

We're talking about core things
that matter for your eternal destiny.

Jesus is a created being, right?

That's not the same Jesus.
Yeah, exactly.

We're going to get into all that stuff.

I think people, hopefully,
the Holy spirit will open

people's hearts and spiritualize,
really, to see what we're talking

about here and to receive the gospel,
the good news for their soul's sake.

That's the The eternal side.

But in the meantime, the temporal
side, every one of these cults,

like we said, is high control.

It damages your soul in the meantime.

The shame and the guilt It's in
the shackles that you're in.

Robbs you of freedom.
It really does.

Peace, joy.

There's so much freedom in Christ
that if you're part of these groups, it's

like, I can't do this, can't do that.

It creates this legalistic mentality
where you're operating from a place

of fear with God because
it's so legalistic versus faith.

We're going to unpack that.

Brian, I'm excited, my man.

Thank you for coming in town.

We've got two more.

Should we tell them what
the next one is all about?

Yeah, let's do it.
I think let's do it.

It's really It's a four-part series
because we'll be adding at pursuegod.

Org/cultish.

We'll add the Mormonism one
that we already recorded earlier.

So altogether, we'll be covering Mormonism
and then Jehovah's Witnesses

and Seventhe Avantis.

We're going to get into
all the stuff, all the things,

and it's going to be a lot of fun.

We'll see you all in the next video
as we're going to explore one

of those groups, and to know which one
you're going to have to tune in.

Hopefully, you enjoyed this,
and it was helpful.

It was helpful as this was
an intro to the series.

Stay tuned.
We'll see you next time.

Bye for now.