Direction, Aspiration, and Obstacles on the Path | A Monastic Q&A Session

This session was recorded during our first week of the Plum Village Summer Opening retreat in July 2023.

Thumbnail photo credit ©Jerome Cabeen -- jeromecabeenphotography.com

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Br. Phap Huu: Good morning,
dear respected Thay,

dear brothers, dear sisters,
dear friends.

I hope you had a relaxing
and lazy morning.

You could sleep in
and feel more rested

and enjoy the wonderful space
provided for us

to be in touch with our breath,
with the trees, with the space.

We have an opportunity
for questions & answers.

This is a great opportunity
to put into words something

we may have been chewing on
for a long time.

But with regards to the practice
of mindfulness and meditation.

the teachings of Plum Village,
and looking back

at our way of life,
our happiness, our suffering

and how to apply the practice
in our daily lives.

This is an opportunity to ask questions.
We call it "Asking from the heart."

We tend to come more
towards the intellect,

but here in Plum Village
we always encourage to ask:

How do we bring these teachings
into our daily life?

This is more important to us
than philosophy.

And we have children with us.
I'm surprised they are here.

I thought you would
enjoy more laziness.

It is a wonderful tradition to have
space for the children to ask questions.

We would like to offer space to the kids
to ask three to four questions.

A good question can benefit many of us.
It doesn't have to be long.

It can be clear and simple.

We have our brother filming the session.

Please raise your hand if you
prefer not to be on camera

and our brother will know. He will
focus the camera on the monastics.

So you can be at ease if you would like
to ask a question, but not be filmed.

Before we listen to a question,
we will listen to a sound of the bell

to come back to our breathing,
and then we ask the question.

So, we would like to invite
the children first.

If there is a child with a question,
you are welcome to come up

and sit on this chair and breathe with us.
And then you can ask your question.

Do any of you have a question?

We do.

[sound of the bell]

Dear community, this is the first
question. Our friend will ask in Italian.

Giacomo: [Italian] If there is
something that we like to do,

and we see someone else
do something that we might not like,

but so many people are doing it,
why do we end up doing that, too?

Voice offscreen: I will try to translate it
and Giacomo can help me

if it's not correct, because
you speak English quite well?

I think the idea is: We know what we want,
what we like to do.

But then we see others do something
that we don't approve of.

We don't like what they're doing.

How come we end up what they're doing
even though we don't like it?

Br. Phap Huu: Do you need translation?

Br. Phap Linh: Thank you.
That's a great question.

We could all ask ourselves that question
at the level of the whole planet.

Why, when there are things that we know
we don't want to do, or we don't like,

but we see that society is going that way,
and we end up doing it as well.

That can happen with a group of friends,
or in a choice of career that we make,

or how much money we think we need,
where we should live,

what lifestyle we think we should have.
It's all a similar problem.

We get pulled into things that
at some level we don't want to do,

but we find ourselves doing anyway.

So ... I think the first question
that I would ask.

You started by saying that we know
what it is that we like to do.

We know what we want.
I'm not sure that that's true.

We kind of know.
But do we really know?

Do we know with the power,
with the strength,

that would be enough to stop us
from getting pulled into things

that we don't want to do?

So we know a little bit.

But could we make that more clear?

What is it that we want to do
and what is it we do not want to do?

That takes contemplation. In a way,
that's what meditation can be for.

Our teacher used to ask us to go
and quietly sit in the forest

and ask ourselves:
What is my deepest desire?

What is the thing that I want most of all?

Because when we know that really clearly,
it makes it much easier to say No

when other people are trying
to pull us into something.

That's the first thing. Do we really know
what it is we do and don't want to do?

And the second thing is that
there's a competition in us,

because we like two things:

We like to do the thing we want to do,
but we also like to be with our friends.

We like to feel connected to others.

We like to not stick out,
so that we're not left out of the group.

If there's a group going one way, a strong
part of us wants to be part of the group.

Even if they're doing something
we don't really want to do.

There are two different pulls.
One is: I need to be part of the group.

I am in danger if I'm not
part of the group.

There's a very old feeling in our bodies.
For a long time, maybe millions of years,

if we didn't belong to the group,
we wouldn't be able to survive.

We would die. So there's a
strong need to be part of the group.

And when that need is in conflict
with this other part of us that says:

"I don't want to do what they're doing",
it's difficult.

It depends which one is stronger.
But it helps just to know that.

You're here, we're all here. We've heard
about the energy of mindfulness.

The energy that allows us to be aware
what's going on inside and around us.

That is the capacity to recognise:
"I want to be part of the group."

When you can see and recognise it,
you also have a bit more freedom.

"I know, I hear you. I hear the part
of me that wants to jump in,

but I can also say No thank you."

Sometimes in a group,
when there's one person that says:

" No. Actually, I don't want to do that."

Then maybe there's two or three
or four other people in the group

who also feel uncomfortable.
Once that one person has said no,

they can also say: "Actually,
I also don't want to do that."

And suddenly, the whole group
can change direction

because one person had
the freedom and the courage to say No.

It's like you are watching
what's happening around you,

but a part of you is watching
what is happening inside of you.

It's like you have an eye tracking:
"I want to jump in,

but I also don't feel comfortable
with what we're doing."

And then you get to choose.

Because otherwise you jump in
before you even know.

It just happens, and then later,
maybe a day, maybe a week later,

you realize you didn't want to do that.
But with the energy of mindfulness,

you have more time,
you have more freedom to choose.

And then maybe many other people
in the group will thank you later

because they also didn't want to do that.

And thanks to you,
they had the choice to say No.

Maybe as a society we're a bit like that.

We rely on a few people with the strength
and awareness to say no to the current

that is taking us in the direction
of destroying the planet

and causing suffering to each other.

Maybe if a few of us can see us and say:
"We don't want to go that way",

then others can get to also say No
and go a different way.

Thank you for your question.

[sound of the bell]

Girl: (French) Do plants
have a nervous system?

For example if you snap a twig,
are you hurting the tree?

Br. Phap Linh: Do the plants
have a nervous system?

For example if you break a branch,
does it hurt the plant?

Br. Phap Huu: The quickest answer
is "Oui" - yes.

Br. Phap Linh: I can add a little bit.

I would say the answer is yes and no.

Because they don't exactly
have a nervous system like ours.

There's no central brain where
all the nerve impulses arrive.

It's been a question in science
for a long time.

And most scientists have said:
"No, plants don't feel anything."

But it's changing. So in recent years,
there are a few scientists

finding evidence to say that plants
do feel and we still don't know how.

But we know that there are electrical
signals passed through the plant cells -

all cells are electrical in nature,
just like nerve cells.

They're not exactly like brain cells,

but they are similar enough
that there is a Spanish scientist

who really believes, and has good
evidence to show, that plants can feel.

One of the ways they can test this
is by using anaesthesia.

If you have to go to a hospital
to have surgery,

they give you an injection or a gas
that makes you fall asleep,

so you don't feel any pain.

For a long time, everybody thought
that only works on humans and animals.

But plants respond to anaesthesia
in very much the same way,

to being put to sleep.

This is all very new research.
You ask a very good question.

You could make
a whole career as a scientist

out of trying to answer that question.

But that's answering
at the level of the head.

There's also an answer
at the level of the heart.

It's the answer that Thay Phap Huu gave

and it's the answer you already know.

We don't feel comfortable
to break a plant for no reason.

We feel like maybe we should
respect them a little bit more.

We should care for them
a little bit better.

Maybe we should not be so sure
that it is only us who can feel things.

If we're very sure,
we can cause a lot of harm

we can be very careless.

But if we're not sure,
if there's a part of us wondering:

"Will the tree feel it
if I break the branch?"

that little space of openness, of
"I don't know, maybe the tree can feel it"

can make us more careful.

Not only as individuals,
but collectively as a species.

There's an awakening happening
in the whole of society.

There are more and more people
waking up to the suffering

that we are maybe causing to
not just the animals that we kill to eat,

but also to the trees that we cut to
build houses, like this meditation hall,

the paper that we use in the toilet,
or to write on.

Maybe it is impossible to live completely
without hurting anything.

It's actually really hard.

But maybe there's a way to live
where we cause as little harm as possible.

We try to do less damage.
Maybe we can't do no damage.

But I'm sure we can do less damage.

Thank you for your question.

Br. Phap Huu: One more question
from the children sangha.

If there are no more questions
from the children sangha,

you are welcome to stay or
you are welcome to go out and play.

I was told there's no children program,
but there's a lot of space.

So feel free.

And now we'd like to offer space
for the bigger children.

if you have questions from the heart,
you are welcome to come up

just like the children to ask
your questions to all of us adults.

[sound of the bell]

Woman: Okay. I'm nervous.
Lots of people.

It's a question I've had
in my head for some months.

It's about how to handle
the suffering that is attached

to a mental formation that has its
beginning somewhere during childhood,

something traumatic that happened.

Because it's different to handle emotions
that come back in a never-ending circle,

or an emotion that comes from something
that happens in a moment and goes away.

I'd like a little advice how to do it.

It confuses me to learn something that
helps me to always be happy or be at peace

but without wanting that the pain
goes away. It's like a contradiction:

How to embrace it without getting
caught in it, or holding it back.

The concrete question is: How can I see
when something that comes up

needs to be embraced, or I can just
let it go and focus on something else,

or how can I see the point
where I'm holding it back?

This difference where I'm embracing it
or where I'm getting stuck on it.

How to let it go
without wanting to let go.

I hope you understand it.

Br. Phap Huu: Thank you for your question.

I will share from my own experience
as a practitioner.

First of all, we have to understand that
meditation is not to get rid of feelings.

We don't practice it to have a single
field of emotions that we feel is us.

But meditation, mindfulness,
is the ability to stop,

to recognise what is happening,
what is present.

Name it. To identify it.
To call it by its name.

And that is acceptance.

For me, a good word that I use,
particularly with emotions

and feelings that are very linked
to childhood experiences,

is to befriend it.
To befriend that emotion, that feeling.

We can have a natural reaction, like
trying to get rid of it, or run from it.

I've run away from particular
emotions for a very long time.

Like you shared in your question,
it doesn't go away.

The word that we use
in our training is 'transformation'.

We can transform a seed, a feeling
that we have experienced

into another feeling.

Inviting another feeling
to embrace and take care.

Mindfulness is an energy
that we can cultivate

to befriend these emotions.

The practice of our arriving
in every moment is the present moment.

The present moment
is the place where life truly is.

Where we can invite that emotion
to be present, to embrace it

with our present moment of who you are.

I can say that all of us have suffered.

Suffering is a noble truth.
We all can understand suffering.

It can make us relate to one another.

Suffering can also be a prison.
We can be attached to our suffering.

And the suffering we tend to be
attached to might not be the feeling,

but it's the story.

Every time that emotion, that feeling,
comes up, that story is recalled.

Our practice is to identify the story.
Recognise the story, embrace it,

but have the mindfulness of this present
moment that I am not in that situation.

I am a new me today.

This new me has the ability to embrace.

To recognise. And to tell the child
that was wounded inside:

"Yes, I have suffered,
I have experienced such pain.

But in this present moment, I have
other energies that I can cultivate."

Love for oneself. Compassion.
Courage. Solidity.

In this present moment,
by embracing this pain,

we don't just get lost in this story.

It's like when we've been slapped.
We're not being slapped again.

But this time we are aware of that pain
and we are telling ourselves

that in that moment,
I'm cultivating something new.

So you are healing the child.
You are transforming it

to live, deeply, this present moment.

And this is the work of transformation
for the samsara, the cycle.

To have an opportunity to stop.

On a personal note:
I've practised for more than 20 years.

Fear is a seed that is still
very present in me.

In particular situations, maybe if
I meet somebody who reminds me

of someone who offered
a lot of pain to me,

that seed of fear gets watered.

But now as a practitioner,
I'm not afraid.

I can become aware of my body.

Your body will have reaction
to the fear that is channeled.

The first place of mindfulness
is the body.

I come back, I recognise the fear.

I know exactly where
the reaction is coming from.

I bring my mindfulness
to those body parts.

I calm the nervous system
with mindful breathing,

with total relaxation.
And in this moment of recognition,

I tell myself: "Phap Huu, don't be afraid.
You're much more than that emotion."

You have many other wonderful emotions.

I call up the other emotions.
I have confidence in my practice.

I know how to breathe.
Nobody can take that away.

I know how to be present.

I have learned to recognise
how to be myself.

To be with my loved ones.

I know how to do it.

Mindfulness is also remembering.
Remembering how to.

How to be in the moment
where you can be solid.

So our practise of this present moment

is training to take care
and to heal the wounds.

As a mindfulness practitioner,

we have to have the ability to know
when it's enough to be with suffering.

We can be very ambitious
as a practitioner.

"The monks, the nuns,
are telling me to recognise my suffering.

OK, I see it. And now
I want to transform it all."

Don't do that. It's a dark hole.

Be generous and patient with yourself.

For us, the practise is a path
of transformation. It takes time.

We have to develop the joy and
the happiness in the present moment.

To also let the wounded child know
that you have the ability

to live happily in this present moment.

This doesn't mean
"to have something to be happy".

But in this moment, I am present.
I still have the ability to recognise

the simple joy, the wonderful
conditions that are there.

Recognising pain is a happy condition.

Knowing what to do,
what not to do.

I hope that helps. Thank you.

Woman: Can I say one more thing?

So it's important not to identify
with the emotion, or with this thing.

I understand it.

And to know that I can decide
when I look at it and when not.

Because it really was like you said.
I thought: "Let's look at it" for years.

Br. Phap Huu: Yes and no.

To not be caught and
just identify as one emotion.

As one past story.

Because we are
a continuous stream of life.

If we are just caught in one story,
we'll become a victim of the story forever

But our practise is to identify:
"Yes, in this moment, I am angry."

"That is just one emotion, though."

In this moment, I can invite
and invoke other energies.

And therefore, you are
more than that emotion.

I've done this myself: Feel very entangled
in an emotion, in a story.

And I see myself as just that.

But our mindfulness
of coming home to oneself,

we know we are much more than just that.

We are a continuation of our ancestors.

We are a continuation of this earth.

Sometimes, I take refuge
in land ancestors.

I am much more than just this suffering.

But also to own our suffering,
and be responsible to transform it.

'Cause I've met people, sorry,
I'm going on a little bit long.

I've met people who've become
very attached to their suffering.

And that suffering
becomes a way to blame life.

And using that as an excuse.

And our teacher shared with us
that we all have the right to suffer.

But it is our responsibility to
transform it. This is it. Thank you.