What relationship should we have to animals? | Annette Lanjouw | TEDxCannes
-
0:01 - 0:06I'm a primatologist and I work
for the conservation of nature. -
0:07 - 0:10Here I was 25,
when I started my career -
0:11 - 0:16in the Democratic Republic of Congo.
I led a 3-year mission -
0:17 - 0:19to study and research
-
0:20 - 0:25a community of chimpanzees
in Virunga National Park. -
0:26 - 0:27It was 1987.
-
0:28 - 0:31Chimpanzees were the goal of my studies
, -
0:32 - 0:34but at the same time
-
0:35 - 0:38they were my main social contact,
-
0:38 - 0:42and so over time, they gradually became
-
0:43 - 0:47very important to me.
I would spend all day -
0:48 - 0:51in the forest with them and I began -
-
0:52 - 0:56I was never threatened
even if they have a reputation -
0:57 - 0:59of being dangerous - and gradually
-
1:00 - 1:03I began to know each individual,
-
1:04 - 1:08each individual's personality
and I would recognize them -
1:09 - 1:14by their gestures, their friendships,
and their position in the group. -
1:15 - 1:17As a scientist, I learned
-
1:18 - 1:23- and you learn - to be impartial,
objective and to avoid at all costs -
1:24 - 1:29to become too emotionally attached
with the subject of your research. -
1:30 - 1:33But the reality is that I am,
and we all are, -
1:34 - 1:37social primates. So we have
-
1:38 - 1:42a natural understanding
and empathy for them. -
1:43 - 1:46This means that
we all have a tendency -
1:47 - 1:51to interpret what we observe.
But sometimes, to avoid -
1:52 - 1:55to anthropomorphize and lose objectivity,
-
1:56 - 1:59we avoid acknowledging the obvious.
-
2:00 - 2:04However, there has been an exception,
with a chimpanzee -
2:05 - 2:07I had named Ozzie.
-
2:08 - 2:10I was walking in the forest every day,
-
2:11 - 2:16I knew all of them
but Ozzie was a male teenager -
2:16 - 2:20who had been injured,
before my arrival in the forest, -
2:21 - 2:25by a poacher trap.
And as you can see, his hand -
2:26 - 2:29- despite the poor quality
of the photo - -
2:30 - 2:33his hand was not working.
His left hand. -
2:34 - 2:38It was swollen,
without hair or dexterity. -
2:39 - 2:42He could use it as a hook,
-
2:43 - 2:47to draw branches to him
and he could also move -
2:48 - 2:52normally in the forest.
But he was a little excluded -
2:53 - 2:57by the other chimpanzees.
He was rarely deloused -
2:58 - 3:00which for a chimpanzee
-
3:01 - 3:04is a sign of low social status.
-
3:05 - 3:08One afternoon,
one sunny afternoon, -
3:10 - 3:13all the chimpanzees were resting,
having a nap. -
3:14 - 3:18I was sitting on the ground,
with my back against a tree -
3:19 - 3:24and they were all scattered
around me and I was watching them. -
3:25 - 3:28But Ozzie was close
in a... in a tree, -
3:29 - 3:32on a branch,
maybe one meter above the ground. -
3:33 - 3:36And he was resting with eyes closed.
-
3:37 - 3:40But at some point,
I realized -
3:41 - 3:45he was looking at me.
And he swung his "good" arm -
3:46 - 3:50and it was very relaxed,
almost too "cool" -
3:51 - 3:54almost like the boy
stretching at the cinema -
3:55 - 3:59to put his arm around
to the girl next to him. -
4:00 - 4:03And at some point,
I realized -
4:04 - 4:08he was reaching for my hand,
as if inviting me to touch him. -
4:09 - 4:11He was not afraid of me,
-
4:12 - 4:15he was curious and reaching out.
-
4:16 - 4:20If I had moved my body slightly
and stretched my arm, -
4:21 - 4:25I could have touched his fingers.
My first reflex -
4:26 - 4:29was to see this gesture as a friendly one.
-
4:30 - 4:33My first reflex was to respond
to his gesture. -
4:34 - 4:38I was touched, I was tempted,
I was curious -
4:38 - 4:42but I was not sure:
should I cross the bridge -
4:43 - 4:48with that other species?
Should I go -
4:49 - 4:52to meet this being
that remained somehow -
4:53 - 4:56unfathomable to me even after years
-
4:57 - 5:02of research and observation.
He was also both familiar, -
5:03 - 5:07but he also a stranger
-
5:08 - 5:11I could never truly know.
There I was, sitting -
5:12 - 5:16with my back against the tree and
I did not know what to do. -
5:17 - 5:20And it is this confusion
-
5:21 - 5:24that Ozzie provoked in me
which raised the question -
5:26 - 5:29I'm asking here.
What is the proper relationship -
5:30 - 5:34between the human and the other?
What should be the ideal bridge -
5:35 - 5:38between the human and the animal?
Without a common language -
5:39 - 5:43it is impossible for us
to exchange clearly -
5:44 - 5:47and without confusion to other animals...
-
5:48 - 5:52As it is impossible for them
to express themselves to us. -
5:53 - 5:56I do not mean that
with a common language, -
5:57 - 6:01there wouldn't be any possibility
of confusion or misunderstanding... -
6:02 - 6:05But without verbal language,
it's so easy -
6:06 - 6:08to question
-
6:09 - 6:11what is observed or misinterpreted.
-
6:12 - 6:17So we use Science
as the language that enables us -
6:18 - 6:21to understand and
explain what is observed... -
6:22 - 6:24And the stricter the discipline,
-
6:25 - 6:28the lesser the risk of losing objectivity.
-
6:29 - 6:32This is important, because
we have a tendency -
6:33 - 6:36to explain, interpret what we observe.
-
6:37 - 6:41The fear of anthropomorphism
and efforts to avoid -
6:42 - 6:44any subjective interpretation
-
6:45 - 6:48are valid, but they also serve
-
6:49 - 6:52as a blindfold covering our eyes
-
6:53 - 6:55preventing us from seeing.
-
6:56 - 6:58What is often extremely convenient!
-
6:59 - 7:02Consider this:
if we cannot prove -
7:03 - 7:07that an animal suffers,
we can ignore its suffering. -
7:08 - 7:12If we cannot demonstrate clearly
-
7:13 - 7:17how its sophisticated brain works,
then we can deny -
7:18 - 7:20it works in a sophisticated manner.
-
7:21 - 7:24And we can simply conclude
-
7:25 - 7:27it is driven by its instincts
-
7:28 - 7:32without self-consciousness,
unable to think about its life, -
7:33 - 7:36fears, desires and hopes.
-
7:37 - 7:40All this does not exist,
because we can not see it. -
7:41 - 7:44A belief system is in place,
-
7:45 - 7:48based on philosophy and religion,
-
7:49 - 7:53allowing man to place himself
at the top of a pyramid -
7:54 - 7:59with superiority and domination
over all other species. -
8:00 - 8:04And a sign, among others,
of this is that research -
8:05 - 8:08in animal intelligence
seeks and notes mostly -
8:09 - 8:13how humans
are superior to other animals... -
8:14 - 8:18We view our skills uh...
and our superior capabilities -
8:19 - 8:23as due to our complex
and sophisticated brain. -
8:24 - 8:27And it gives us a unique potential
-
8:28 - 8:31in intelligence, empathy and altruism.
-
8:32 - 8:34But the reality is that these skills
-
8:35 - 8:39are not unique to humans,
nor always higher. -
8:40 - 8:42Let me give you an example.
-
8:43 - 8:47The brain of the orca is large
and comparable structurally -
8:48 - 8:50to the human brain.
Apart from an area... -
8:51 - 8:55The area that allows us
to feel and control emotions, -
8:56 - 9:00and develop social ties.
-
9:01 - 9:04This area contains the limbic lobe,
-
9:04 - 9:08the insular cortex and the cap.
This area in the orca -
9:10 - 9:14is proportionally larger
and more complex than humans. -
9:15 - 9:19So the only logical conclusion
of such observation -
9:20 - 9:23is a logic that we often apply
-
9:24 - 9:27to explain our human superiority
-
9:28 - 9:32(compared) to other animals is that such
complexity -
9:33 - 9:37would also indicate more capacity
in this creature. -
9:38 - 9:42This part of the brain in the orca
is more complex... -
9:43 - 9:46so its emotional bonds,
-
9:47 - 9:50its emotional life
are likely to be deeper, -
9:51 - 9:54more complex and somehow unfathomable
-
9:55 - 9:58for us humans who
do not have these capabilities. -
9:59 - 10:04But we continue to ignore
the implications of these studies, -
10:05 - 10:09and especially to look for research
that does not call into question -
10:10 - 10:13our "superiority".
Denying animals the ability -
10:14 - 10:18of having a sophisticated reflection
animals has been very convenient to us, -
10:19 - 10:23and continues to be so.
This allowed us to -
10:24 - 10:27exploit and even exterminate other species
-
10:28 - 10:30regardless of the impact
-
10:31 - 10:34on their lives... and without much remorse.
-
10:35 - 10:37We talk about the Human and Animal...
-
10:38 - 10:41Not of the human as an animal.
-
10:42 - 10:45The animal is often used
as a derogatory word. -
10:46 - 10:49Historically and in contemporary life,
-
10:50 - 10:53the word 'animal'
is used as an insult. -
10:54 - 10:58To behave like an animal
is unworthy of us... -
10:59 - 11:01Wild, uncontrolled, unrestrained.
-
11:02 - 11:06Driven by its instincts
and devoid of morality. -
11:07 - 11:09Like a beast. A pig.
-
11:10 - 11:11Or rat. Or a cockroach.
-
11:12 - 11:17Put... uh... think how many times
you have heard the sentence -
11:18 - 11:21"Phew! darling, you eat like a pig."?
-
11:22 - 11:25But this is not
a meaningless little phrase. -
11:26 - 11:28And it can go very far.
-
11:29 - 11:32And in the racist and genocidal language,
-
11:33 - 11:36comparisons with animals are very common.
-
11:37 - 11:41So, we used the same the theoretical
-
11:42 - 11:45human superiority to exploit and hurt
-
11:46 - 11:50other humans by comparing them to animals.
-
11:51 - 11:54We justified by their "lack of morality
-
11:55 - 11:58or sophisticated mental capacities "
-
11:59 - 12:02exploitation and enslavement
of other humans -
12:03 - 12:07by this comparison and
this superiority theory. -
12:08 - 12:11This allowed us to discriminate
based on race, -
12:12 - 12:15religion, sexuality
-
12:16 - 12:19or gender.
It is very important -
12:20 - 12:24to remember that human exploitation
was made -
12:25 - 12:29the same way
that we exploited animals. -
12:30 - 12:34So... What is the proper relationship
with the animal? -
12:35 - 12:37Now I do not want
-
12:38 - 12:40to replace one illusion with another...
-
12:41 - 12:43nor do I want you to accept the illusion
-
12:44 - 12:47and the utopian world
where all the animals -
12:48 - 12:51have the same capacity!
I would especially like -
12:52 - 12:56us to be aware of our lack of humility
-
12:57 - 12:58and lack of integrity...
-
12:59 - 13:02And that we admit it as illusory.
-
13:03 - 13:06Take for example an animal...
Place it in front of a dog, for example. -
13:07 - 13:11We will all consider ourselves
-
13:12 - 13:16superior even if that same dog
had a capacity of smell or -
13:17 - 13:20in the detection of certain diseases
-
13:21 - 13:24far beyond ours.
So superior in what? -
13:25 - 13:28Perhaps in a few decades
-
13:29 - 13:33we will look at
our attitudes and our behavior -
13:34 - 13:37towards animals with the same uneasiness
-
13:38 - 13:42and shame, and we will find
grotesque the way that -
13:43 - 13:45today we look at discrimination
-
13:46 - 13:48on other human populations:
-
13:49 - 13:54slavery and genocide.
So... what is the good relationship -
13:55 - 13:58with animals?
I'm coming back to Ozzie -
13:59 - 14:01who reached his arm in the forest.
-
14:02 - 14:07Everything indicated a friendly gesture...
Maybe even acknowledging -
14:08 - 14:10my own inferior status as an alien
-
14:11 - 14:14a little comparable to his.
-
14:15 - 14:20Maybe we were both each other's "other"
-
14:21 - 14:24as well as being "other"
to the chimpanzees in the group. -
14:25 - 14:28It was very difficult to make a choice...
-
14:29 - 14:32What a temptation to cross the border
-
14:33 - 14:36and to meet the other species,
-
14:37 - 14:41a totally wild animal and
reciprocate the complicity -
14:42 - 14:45and friendship that he seemed to offer me.
-
14:46 - 14:50But one thing I knew:
touching a wild animal -
14:51 - 14:52and especially a great ape
-
14:54 - 14:56that is so vulnerable to humans...
-
14:57 - 14:59this is rarely good for the animal.
-
15:00 - 15:03So I did not respond to his gesture.
-
15:04 - 15:09I looked at him, but I kept my hands
folded on my lap. -
15:10 - 15:13And after a little while,
Ozzie withdrew his hand -
15:14 - 15:17and stopped not looking at me.
I made the choice -
15:18 - 15:22not to cross the bridge...
Because somewhere -
15:23 - 15:25I felt it would have been for me...
-
15:26 - 15:29and not for him. I wanted him to know
-
15:30 - 15:32he had nothing to fear from me...
-
15:33 - 15:37But the unpleasant reality is that man is
-
15:38 - 15:42everything dangerous,
threatening and essentially immoral -
15:43 - 15:45in the world of animals.
-
15:46 - 15:49For Ozzie, his future and wellbeing
-
15:50 - 15:53would depend on him
keeping a little fear of man. -
15:54 - 15:58I did not know
and I would never have known -
15:59 - 16:03the consequences, but since then,
the Congo war led -
16:04 - 16:08to the massacres of humans and animals
by the military, -
16:09 - 16:13poachers and rebels.
For Ozzie, his future was -
16:14 - 16:18with chimpanzees. And it would
have been dangerous for him -
16:19 - 16:23to put too much trust in a human being.
-
16:24 - 16:27But I'm left with the question...
"What if.... ". -
16:28 - 16:32And I cannot say that
I wasn't tempted... -
16:33 - 16:34nor that I do not keep
-
16:35 - 16:38some small regret about my decision.
-
16:39 - 16:42After so many years with wild animals
-
16:43 - 16:45and so many years looking for
-
16:46 - 16:48the ideal scientific position,
-
16:50 - 16:51I began to understand
-
16:52 - 16:55the limits of my own knowledge
-
16:56 - 17:00and all that remains unfathomable
and essentially different. -
17:01 - 17:05Now I come back to the
question I put to you: -
17:06 - 17:09what is the ideal bridge
between the human and the animal? -
17:10 - 17:16And I wonder, should we focus that much
-
17:16 - 17:19on a comparison of the differences?
-
17:20 - 17:23Or should we look at
-
17:24 - 17:26these differences and the value,
-
17:27 - 17:30the beauty and importance
of these differences? -
17:31 - 17:35I think the terra incognita
of other animals is defined -
17:36 - 17:39by our ignorance and this blindfold
-
17:40 - 17:44we keep deliberately
before our eyes not to see. -
17:45 - 17:48Maybe the ideal bridge between
the human and the other -
17:49 - 17:53should be a celebration
of those differences -
17:54 - 17:56towards a respectful coexistence?
Thank you.
- Title:
- What relationship should we have to animals? | Annette Lanjouw | TEDxCannes
- Description:
-
What is the right bridge between humans and animals? Are humans superior to animals? What role does Science play in our understanding of how species work? In this talk, Annette Lanjouw questions the human-animal relationships and more generally, the relationship of between species and shares her view on this matter.
Annette Lanjouw is a famous international primatologist who continued Diane Fossey's work to protect the endangered moutain gorillas in war-torn regions of Africa. Over the past 25 years, she contributed to protect the orang-utangs, the chimpanzees and the bonobos. Her journey developed in her the love of life and wild places as well as the notion that humans are just a part of a complex natural system.
This talk was given at a TEDx event using the TED conference format but independently organized by a local community. Learn more at http://ted.com/tedx
- Video Language:
- French
- Team:
- closed TED
- Project:
- TEDxTalks
- Duration:
- 17:30