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35C3 - Artistic PCB Design and Fabrication

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    35C3 preroll music
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    Herald: Our next speaker got hit by a car
    really really bad and she wasn't able to
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    do anything for around half a year. And
    what do you do if you're running out of
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    books to read and games to play. Well, if
    you're already a Ph.D. in manufacturing,
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    you probably turn around and think what
    can I do in my home and what you can do in
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    your home without many tools is actually
    getting into electronics and well
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    electronics can be functional but
    electronics can also be very very
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    beautiful. So we 're going to look at the
    beautiful side of electronics today with
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    our most excellent speaker Emily Hammes.
    applause
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    Emily: So yeah. So I'm going to talk to
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    you guys about artistic PCB design and
    fabrication. And like you said I'm a
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    manufacturing engineer and a bioengineer.
    I'm really not an electrical engineer nor
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    am I a programmer. I literally had one
    programming class in my 16 years at a
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    university and I had two electronics
    classes so really not much more than
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    gymnasium for everybody. My first PCB that
    I ever designed was actually during my
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    Ph.D. in manufacturing. I had no idea what
    I was doing so I designed it completely in
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    solidworks which is a basically a
    mechanical engineering software where I
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    built a 3-D model and it included layers
    that were going to be the copper. And then
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    I went to an electrical engineer and I was
    like so how do I turn this into a file
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    that an electrical engineer can use and he
    just laughed at me. So the purpose of that
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    was actually that particular PCB. See if I
    can get the mouse to work. Actually I can
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    just walk over here. But basically in this
    column, this column used chemical
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    chromatography or liquid chromatography to
    separate chemicals by different
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    properties. And what I needed to do was
    buffer humidity that was reaching poison
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    gas sensors without losing the poison gas
    measurements because the sensors that my
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    colleagues were designing were cross
    sensitive to humidity and to the poison
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    gas we were measuring. So it was my job to
    build a zero energy system that could
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    remove the humidity or at least buffer it.
    So the signals wouldn't reach those
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    sensors at the same time. So what I did is
    I sort of inspired by a bathtub drain as I
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    built this PCB with the humidity and
    temperature sensor in the middle and then
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    slits in it so that the air could go
    through. And that's sort of how me
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    building holes in PCBs got started and
    building holes in PCBs is not really
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    normal for fabrication companies. So when
    I took that PCB to EPFL and asked their
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    fab to build it they were not happy with
    me. So then after the accident that he
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    mentioned I decided I wanted to, so
    basically I was living with my now husband
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    and he runs a embedded systems engineering
    company. And so our apartment is a stack
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    of oscilloscopes and multiple soldering
    irons and I knew very little about how to
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    work with these things but I was like you
    know what. What you're doing is way cooler
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    than reading books. So I'm going to figure
    this out. So I started with simple things
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    and basically then got into more complex
    things. And on the far side is a image of
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    a PCB that's taped to the window that I've
    embedded plastic in I have a video online
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    of how I did that for those, actually
    those are the examples and that's the end-
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    slide of that video. And then this is what
    it looks like in the dark. So you can see
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    that it blinks and it also has this
    stained glass window property. So there
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    just 2D art. So then this is my most
    recent PCB and it's a Christmas tree and
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    it's three dimensional. They basically the
    dragon fly and the Christmas tree have the
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    same schematic so electrically they're
    identical it's just there's four of them
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    on the Christmas tree. But mechanically
    they're very different. So that's a little
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    bit of my background and the type of PCBs
    that I actually end up building. So this
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    talk is going to be about my workflow.
    It's not going to be about like all the
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    different softwares I'll mention the
    software is that I use that are free.
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    I've used non free softwares. But those aren't
    as interesting because you have to do
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    those for a company if you want to do it
    on your own. You need the free software.
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    So I'll mention which ones I use but it's
    not an introduction on how to use those.
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    It's an introduction on how to fuse them
    together. Because that's the really
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    complicated part that I had to figure out
    on my own. There's tons of youtube videos
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    on everything else. So basically it's
    mechanical design that's coupled with the
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    electrical design. So the first thing I'm
    going to talk about. It's actually an
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    interplay between the CAD software, which
    is what architects and mechanical
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    engineers use and PCB software which is
    what electrical engineers use.
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    So basically it's not about how to use any
    given software. So the first thing that I
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    need to think about when I start designing
    a PCB is what are the rules that the fab
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    needs me to follow in order to actually
    have my final electrical design called the
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    Gerber file work in the fab or actually be
    buildable and the green PCB is how it
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    looks on KiCAD and three dimensions. The
    purple PCB is how a lot of fabs would
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    actually end up building it because a lot
    of fabs do not deal with internal holes.
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    Many of them will do it but you might have
    to actually contact them and talk to a
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    real person in order to make sure that
    they will actually build it the way you
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    wanted because their software doesn't
    necessarily automatically identify the
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    routing for that when they actually go to
    the milling process. The other thing that
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    I have to think about is what are the
    design rules on V-CUTS. So a V-CUT,
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    basically if you look at this heart that I
    have an example of it's a very small
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    heart. So I can panelize it which means
    putting more than one heart on a board so
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    that I can break them apart later. It's
    makes it cheaper for me because then I get
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    four for the same price as I'd get one for
    from the fab. But I have to incorporate a
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    way to break them apart. And those are
    called V-CUTS and a V-CUT is just they
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    basically take a blade and they run the
    PCB through it and it causes a small cut
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    to be made in the board and it's often on
    both sides of the board. But in order to
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    do that they need a flat surface so it's
    difficult to see in. I'll use the pointer
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    although I don't think it shows up online.
    So basically on this red PCB where there's
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    the four hearts, they don't have a way of
    making this yellow line because, or
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    without these small edges, because there's
    no flat surface for them to use as a
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    guide. So then I got an email back from my
    fab. They are like we can't build this the
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    way you wanted. So you have to add some
    part that's flat so that we can actually
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    manufacture this for you which is why I
    ended up having to add this. So it's a
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    really important design rule. In this case
    it wasn't a problem because I had this
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    space to make it flat. But if you don't
    design it with that in mind it might not
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    end up working. So then in order for that
    extra part to be removeable I needed to do
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    something called adding mouse bites.
    There's a couple of other names that these
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    go by but at least in Switzerland
    everybody I know calls the mouse bites. So
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    basically that's this small square. And
    this is what it looks like when you zoom
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    in and there's these small, or these three
    small holes that make it very weak in that
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    part so you can just snap it apart and
    break it. And this is what they look like
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    on the Christmas tree to break the
    separate branches apart. So the other
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    thing you need to think about. You can't
    just make things infinitely thin. You're
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    going to have to put the wires in
    somewhere and you're going to have to put
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    the components in somewhere. And so you
    need to think about how big those wires
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    need to be, how close to the edge can they
    be and design with that in mind. So this
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    is the Christmas tree that I did. And this
    side is actually, it's not the mirror
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    image. It's like the rotated image like if
    you flip a pancake over a turn a book
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    over. So this is the backside and this is
    the front side of each other. So when I go
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    and I zoom in on the center what you're
    seeing is actually this is the backside
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    that would be on here. This is the
    backside that would be over here. And what
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    you can see is that up here it's really
    really tight and so you have to think
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    about how many wires do I kind of expect.
    How big are these components and design so
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    that it really will eventually fit. And
    sometimes you have to redesign things
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    because you need more wires than you
    originally thought about. And then there's
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    also mechanical properties. So PCBs come
    in different thicknesses in the case of my
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    Ph.D. when I built this I needed a very
    very thin PCB because I had a very tight
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    restriction on this component and actually
    all of these measurements are minimized as
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    much as possible for clearance and
    manufacturability incivility. So in this
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    case the PCB was really really stable once
    it was in the column.
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    But a number of people were not careful
    and my collaborators...
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    Because this was delivered all over the
    European Union.
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    A number of my collaborators were not
    very careful with this PCB
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    and they would bend it or break it, which
    made my fab even more happy with me
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    because basically they kept having
    to rebuild them. So, you just need to
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    think about the manufacturability and like
    once you start removing the inside how
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    strong will it be and will I be able to
    bend it like paper. Because if you can do
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    that, it's not going to last very long. So
    then you also just need to think about the
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    tolerances. And a lot of these are online.
    So for example holes in pin headers. I
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    recently had a PCB that I designed and the
    pin headers were a really good tight fit.
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    They basically stuck them in and they were
    pretty much a right angle in the first
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    round. And then I ordered more and the
    holes didn't fit anymore. So you need to
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    always allow for, you know, some tolerance
    in your manufacturing site an error on a
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    bigger hole that you fill in with solder
    at least in the artistic side then a small
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    hole that you have a perfect fit with.
    Also wires near the edges can sometimes
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    cause problems. And that happens because
    the tool might not be perfectly aligned.
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    So if you put your wires further away from
    the edge you're going to have a more
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    likely chance of having a lot of really
    good PCBs rather than difficulty with your
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    fab. And if you're already asking your fab
    to do special stuff for you, you probably
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    don't want to make their life even harder.
    And then tool radius. So in this first
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    version of the dragon fly I sometimes had
    problems with this particular joint and
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    you can kind of see a blown up sort of out
    of focus image here where you can see that
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    they had trouble with the tool because
    they were using one milling tool for this
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    outside part. And then they had to go in
    with a smaller tool to sort of get this
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    part out. And it was difficult for them.
    So that's why in the Christmas tree I made
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    the fillet, so that's the curves on the
    inner fillet, in manufacturing or and
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    mechanical engineering is when you have a
    tight joint and you make a small radius
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    that's the size of the tool bit or larger.
    So I made bigger ones in later designs,
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    for that reason. So now that you kind of
    have a background in all the different
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    things you have to keep in the back of
    your mind when you're actually going to
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    try and have this fabricated. Now, I'm
    going to get to my workflow, which is what
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    I actually go through when I'm trying to
    design something new. So the first thing I
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    do is I actually get a piece of paper and
    a pen and I just start sketching what I
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    think it's going to look like. It's so
    much faster to draw in on paper, even
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    though I'm really not a great artist, than
    it is to try and draw in CAD with exact
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    dimensions and so on. Then I make a
    schematic in KiCad. Schematics are
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    basically the the electronics, and saying
    you know I need a resistor, I need a
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    capacitor and so on. Then I pick the
    components, so that's like not just I need
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    a capacitor, but I need this type of
    capacitor, that's this big, and this wide,
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    and this tall. And then, once I have that,
    I now have the maximum size that all my
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    parts need to be, that need to fit on the
    board to actually do something. So then I
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    can go in to a CAD model, which is what
    the mechanical engineers, and the
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    manufacturing engineers, and the civil
    engineers, and the architects use, to
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    start building the PCB outline, so that
    electrical circuit board outline. Then I
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    import that model and I use the outlines
    that I drew as the edge cuts. So that's
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    actually the end of where the milling tool
    will go during the manufacturing process.
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    And then I placed the components where I
    want them to be. And then I connect all
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    the wires how they need to be. And then I
    optionally will panelize them, depending
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    on how big that PCB is going to be. So
    that means putting more than one of the
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    same thing on the same board. And then ,if
    I need to in order to have it be
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    manufacturable just like the heart, then I
    have to add breakoffs, which is all those
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    parts that I'll eventually throw away just
    so that they can do v-cuts and so on. So
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    this is me sketching what I think my
    Christmas tree will look like. So what I
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    did as I started and I literally got a
    piece of paper and I started drawing
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    triangles, that are the size I wanted it
    to be. So this is 10 centimetres tall and
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    then each one of those small triangles is
    5 centimetres. And then I started sort of
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    sketching this, trying to keep it at about
    3 millimetres, because I've done so many
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    charlieplexing LED things at this point, I
    know that if it's less than 3 millimetres,
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    it's going to be hard to route a lot of
    wires. So it's a good starting point from
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    my side. All my components I also know
    will be able to fit on that 3 millimetres,
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    except the microcontroller. So that means
    somewhere I'm going to have to make
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    something bigger than that 3 centimetres
    or 3 millimetre, 3 centimetres, sorry
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    that's wrong. It should be centimetres,
    not millimetres. No, it should, yes
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    millimetres, sorry. Sometimes I think in
    inches, I'm American. Laughs I haven't
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    quite converted. So basically I also think
    about what it should do electrically. So
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    is this blinky lights, is there a motor is
    there, what's that going to have on it?
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    And is it going to be 2D or 3D? And I
    start thinking about if it's 3D, how am I
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    going to get ground and five volts from
    one side to another. Do I need to get a
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    signal somewhere? Like is there one
    microcontroller on this 3D object, and
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    therefore the branches are of the
    Christmas tree are all going to have to
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    get the all the signals from the
    microcontroller or I'm going to have
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    separate microcontrollers on each branch?
    How's that gonna work? Then this is the
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    schematic, actually, and it's the same
    schematic I've used for the dragon fly,
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    the heart, and the Christmas tree, where I
    basically go in and I say "Okay, I have
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    that sketch that I drew by hand and I'm
    going to need a capacitor that goes
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    between five volts and ground. I'm going
    to need the microcontroller that's going
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    to tell all these LEDs what to do. And
    because these are LEDs, I'm going to need
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    resistors." So I connect them all the way
    that I want them to be and the way they
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    need to be to work. And then the next
    thing I do is I actually go through and I
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    get on like a distributor for electronics
    and I actually pick components. So this is
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    in 0603 capacitor. These are taken from
    DigiKey. This is an ATtiny, these are
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    resistors, this is the LED and so on. And
    that way, I have a physical idea of how
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    big these things need to be. And then
    again footprints, so the pads that those
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    components are going to be soldered on are
    actually bigger than the components
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    itself, logical. So I need to figure out
    exactly how big those need to be. Because
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    if it's a perfect fit for the resistor
    somewhere, that means that's not going to
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    be a perfect fit for the, resistor, it's
    not going to be a perfect fit for the
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    pads. So I need to really think about the
    pads. And at this point sometimes I design
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    new footprints. So maybe I want, instead
    of the resistor to look like this, maybe I
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    want it to be a Christmas tree. So the
    ball needs to be actually a ball, like I
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    want these to be the ornaments. So then I
    just would make some silkscreen marks
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    around it to make it look like a ball, for
    example. So then, I have to go ahead and
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    actually build the CAD model. So that
    means I go into Fusion360, you could use
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    other software, I've used SolidWorks
    before, as well. And then I start drawing
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    things. And these are all 3 millimeters.
    And this is actually where the micro
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    controller goes, because it has to be big
    enough for the microcontroller. And so
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    this was the logical place to put it. In
    the dragonfly it's actually in the center
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    where the wings come together. In the
    snowflake it's in the center as well. In
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    some other PCBs that might be on the stem
    of a shamrock, because those are logical
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    places to be bigger. So this is a
    snowflake that I was talking about. So
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    sometimes I also, and this is like
    actually the one of my earlier PCBs, I
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    actually modeled the components to make
    sure that it would make sense and it would
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    look OK. And I don't have the back shown.
    But I also modeled this component. And if
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    you look, it's kind of a tight squeeze
    there and I needed to make sure it would
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    fit. So then, once you have a CAD model
    that you're happy with, then this is sort
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    of a weird step that it took me a while to
    figure out. But I already had a lot of
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    experience dealing with the quirkiness of
    machining tools and 3D software.
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    So, basically I export it from Fusion360
    as a DXF, but because there's multiple
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    different formats that DXF can have, DXF
    is just a two dimensional drawing format -
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    there's multiple forms that it can have -
    I actually have to open it in another
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    software, because Fusion360 doesn't save
    it in a format that KiCad can read. I open
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    it in a different free software and then
    just save it as an R12 ASCII file, that's
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    a form of DXF, and then I can open it in
    KiCad. If I don't do that what ends up
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    happening is only the straight lines show
    up and some of the circles might. But none
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    of these complicated curves will show up
    as edge cuts. So then I just go through,
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    once I have the edge cuts put on my board.
    Because this is when I'm starting to
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    actually design the board. I import all of
    the LEDs and so on that I did and the
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    schematic, and then I start placing them
    where I want them to go. In some cases, I
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    might have, if I'm really going to be very
    specific about where an LED needs to be, I
  • 21:49 - 21:56
    wasn't so much on the Christmas tree, I'll
    also have exported the LEDs as part of the
  • 21:56 - 22:01
    edge cuts and I'll just delete them later.
    And that way I know exactly where I want
  • 22:01 - 22:09
    that LED to be. And then I need to route
    them. So all electrical softwares have
  • 22:09 - 22:13
    routing, as far as I know, that you can do
    and it usually comes out in like a 45
  • 22:13 - 22:23
    degree angle or maybe 30. So often, I will
    do it by hand. This is a different kit
  • 22:23 - 22:28
    that I built and I wanted the routing to
    sort of make a heart shape in the
  • 22:28 - 22:37
    charlieplexed heart. And so I did it by
    hand. The other option, it also if you do
  • 22:37 - 22:41
    it by hand, you are less likely to make
    really dumb mistakes. So for example when
  • 22:41 - 22:46
    you use an auto router, auto routers know
    where the components are, but they really
  • 22:46 - 22:52
    don't care about anything you would learn
    in like a physics class. So they have no
  • 22:52 - 22:57
    problem with making an insanely long line
    from a capacitor to a microcontroller and
  • 22:57 - 23:04
    you want that line to be really really
    short because it's supposed to buffer
  • 23:04 - 23:09
    voltage changes and provide, like,
    basically buffer fluctuations in the
  • 23:09 - 23:15
    amount of energy that microcontroller is
    receiving from the main power source.
  • 23:15 - 23:22
    Because maybe more LEDs are drawing more
    energy. But anyway, it'll make those lines
  • 23:22 - 23:29
    not the way they should be. So doing it by
    hand is often better, but with some of my
  • 23:29 - 23:34
    designs like the Christmas tree it's just
    not possible. Because this isn't an angle
  • 23:34 - 23:40
    that KiCad can do and that most software
    can do, I actually export the file that
  • 23:40 - 23:50
    has all of the components on it, placed in
    the correct location and the edge cuts,
  • 23:50 - 23:55
    and TopoR will go through it and it will
    make curvy lines, by making lots of tiny
  • 23:55 - 24:02
    straight line segments. And one problem
    with that is that, a lot of these auto
  • 24:02 - 24:06
    routing softwares have no ability to work
    with a giant hole in the middle of the
  • 24:06 - 24:13
    PCB, so they'll just connect like this to
    that, just through the hole. So that
  • 24:13 - 24:17
    doesn't work either. So there's a script
    on my GitHub page. It's actually not on
  • 24:17 - 24:22
    there right now. I will put it up there by
    the end of Congress. But I just didn't
  • 24:22 - 24:28
    have time over the holidays. And then once
    I do that, I also need to check for stupid
  • 24:28 - 24:32
    electrical errors. Not because they won't
    be connected but because sometimes you
  • 24:32 - 24:36
    have components that are close to another
    component and the lines need to be very,
  • 24:36 - 24:43
    very short. So you might have to fix that
    on your own. So then at that point you're
  • 24:43 - 24:47
    basically done, except if you want to
    panelize. So in the case of the Christmas
  • 24:47 - 24:56
    tree I had 1 and I wanted to make 4. So in
    order to make it panelize well, because
  • 24:56 - 25:01
    this is basically just a triangle, and I
    needed to know how long it was and how
  • 25:01 - 25:07
    tall it was. And in my mind it was the
    full 5 centimeters, but in reality,
  • 25:07 - 25:12
    because I had cut off this corner, it
    wasn't five centimeters. So I took a like
  • 25:12 - 25:15
    marking edge, so something that the
    manufacturing process doesn't use for
  • 25:15 - 25:21
    anything, and it doesn't end up in the
    Gerber files, and I extended this line out
  • 25:21 - 25:26
    to where it should have ended. So it would
    be the right shape. So then I could rotate
  • 25:26 - 25:35
    it and flip it and so on and have it
    turned into this pattern. The other thing
  • 25:35 - 25:39
    is that I had to remove extra and
    duplicate lines. So in the process of
  • 25:39 - 25:45
    making one, I needed to close all of the
    lines. So on this mousebite there's a line
  • 25:45 - 25:50
    here, that actually, the arrows will show
    it. So the blue lines or the blue arrows
  • 25:50 - 25:55
    show where these mouse bites are closed
    and they're actually going to flip and
  • 25:55 - 26:00
    connect to each other. So I had to remove
    them in the final panelized version over
  • 26:00 - 26:05
    here. So you can see it four times with
    this edge removed. And then there were a
  • 26:05 - 26:09
    couple of mousebites that were close to
    that edge so they weren't completely
  • 26:09 - 26:12
    closed. And it also had problems with
    that, so I had to just replace them with
  • 26:12 - 26:19
    circles or close them manually. And then
    the next step when you're panelizing is
  • 26:19 - 26:24
    also to add brake offs for the
    manufacturing process. So in this case
  • 26:24 - 26:32
    that was these small edges because the
    v-cuts needed the flat surface. So that is
  • 26:32 - 26:37
    the end of my talk. And if you have
    questions, I'm open to questions. You can
  • 26:37 - 26:40
    also, if you're online and you're watching
    this later, you can leave a comment on my
  • 26:40 - 26:43
    YouTube channel. I try and get back to
    people and make videos based on their
  • 26:43 - 26:48
    comments. I have a Tindie page and I have
    a webpage. And then, if you want to learn
  • 26:48 - 26:52
    how to solder but you don't know how, come
    over to the hardware hacking area because
  • 26:52 - 26:55
    I'm going to be teaching a workshop on
    that.
  • 26:55 - 27:04
    Herald: Thank you very much for this most
    excellent talk. If you have, please a
  • 27:04 - 27:10
    round of applause.
    Applause
  • 27:10 - 27:14
    If you have any questions, thers
    microphones, 6, distributed through the
  • 27:14 - 27:19
    room. Please just walk up to them and I'll
    point you out. Are there any questions
  • 27:19 - 27:25
    from the internet? No questions from the
    internet. Are there any questions from the
  • 27:25 - 27:33
    audience in the Saal? Come on guys, I know
    it's early. There is one. Please walk up
  • 27:33 - 27:40
    to the microphone there in the aisle.
    Center front microphone please.
  • 27:40 - 27:46
    Front center microphone: Let's see if this
    works. Sounds good. So I'm also very
  • 27:46 - 27:50
    fascinated of the idea of charlieplexed
    circuits, and I'm wondering: Do you sell
  • 27:50 - 27:54
    any of your PCBs as kits or something?
    Emily: Yeah, I have all of them as kits
  • 27:54 - 27:56
    with me. So go over to the hardware
    hacking area.
  • 27:56 - 28:00
    Mic: OK, thats cool, thank you.
    Emily: Yeah, even the ones that aren't on
  • 28:00 - 28:05
    Tindie. So basically anyting on my
    webpage, tried to get all of it here.
  • 28:05 - 28:09
    Herald: Again, center front microphone
    please.
  • 28:09 - 28:15
    Question: Yeah, hi. Why didn't you use the
    PCB layout software to create the outline.
  • 28:15 - 28:23
    Emily: Because KiCad doesn't like
    splines. And so, if i did the, so
  • 28:23 - 28:29
    basically PCB software is often designed
    for straight lines or arcs. So just
  • 28:29 - 28:36
    circles und straight lines. To define more
    complex shapes is significantly harder.
  • 28:36 - 28:41
    Also, with like standard manufacturing
    software or standard mechanic engeineering
  • 28:41 - 28:46
    software. they are designed so that you
    can parameterize things. So actually with
  • 28:46 - 28:53
    the snowflake or the Christmas tree in the
    Fusion360 version, I have numbers that
  • 28:53 - 28:59
    say, you know, 3 milimeters. This is three
    milimeters. So if I decide later I need it
  • 28:59 - 29:06
    to be 4 milimeters, I just go 4 and then
    export it again. It's much faster. It
  • 29:06 - 29:08
    sounds harder, but is much faster.
  • 29:08 - 29:10
    Herald: Again front center microphone
    please.
  • 29:10 - 29:21
    Question: Absolutely newbie. So I'm only
    wondering if you prefer EAGLE as well?
  • 29:21 - 29:26
    Emily: So I've never used EAGLE.
    And the reason, that I haven't is...
  • 29:26 - 29:31
    Well, there's two reasons.
    First, right now it's only free
  • 29:31 - 29:35
    for smaller PCBs than the Christmas tree.
    So I don't want to spend money because I'm
  • 29:35 - 29:41
    currently unemployed and I don't have that
    kind of money. Second, my husband runs an
  • 29:41 - 29:45
    embedded systems company and he uses
    KiCad. So I have a professional that lives
  • 29:45 - 29:49
    with me and that I can go "I don't
    understand." and he can be like "Here is
  • 29:49 - 29:53
    how it works." So on that side it was
    easier for me to use the software that was
  • 29:53 - 29:58
    already in my house. When I was working
    professionally, we used a professional
  • 29:58 - 30:03
    software. So it's just basically I started
    learning when EAGLE went from open source
  • 30:03 - 30:09
    and free to being bought by Autodesk.
    Applause
  • 30:09 - 30:13
    Herald: Again center front microphone
    please.
  • 30:13 - 30:17
    Question: Thanks for this interesting
    talk. So I knew about PCB design, but the
  • 30:17 - 30:23
    artistic part is new. My question is, how
    do you deal with, so I like to use Git or
  • 30:23 - 30:28
    some version control and with KiCad it's
    easy. You have it if it's a XML file. But
  • 30:28 - 30:34
    with outer tools you have binary files. Do
    you have any way to deal with diffs of
  • 30:34 - 30:41
    binary files?
    Emily: So with most mechanical software
  • 30:41 - 30:47
    there is version control as well. So you,
    like, for example in Fusion360 every time
  • 30:47 - 30:53
    I save it'll save the same file as version
    1 or version 2 or version 3 or version 4.
  • 30:53 - 30:59
    So it't not really GitHub, but it does have
    a way to regress backward in what you
  • 30:59 - 31:01
    want.
    Mic: So you save it as version 1, version
  • 31:01 - 31:03
    2 or does it automatically
    Emily: It automatically actually does it.
  • 31:03 - 31:10
    Every time you save it, it sort of appends
    a new version to it. Because this is also
  • 31:10 - 31:15
    a problem industrially with mechanical
    engineering designs, where mutlipe people
  • 31:15 - 31:21
    need to be working towards getting maybe a
    probe to be stable. So they also have to
  • 31:21 - 31:25
    deal with version control.
    Mic: Because I'm trying to do the switch
  • 31:25 - 31:30
    from EAGLE to KiCad, and in EAGLE I just
    have version 1, version 200, 300, 400
  • 31:30 - 31:41
    Emily: Yeah, with KiCad I don't really do
    so much version control. Yeah. I, he would
  • 31:41 - 31:45
    be the person to ask, because he's the
    professional. The guy in that shirt with
  • 31:45 - 31:50
    the "do not panic" is really the person I end
    up asking all of my really tough
  • 31:50 - 31:54
    electrical questions, too.
    Herald: We have another question on the
  • 31:54 - 31:59
    front right microphone.
    Mic: Yes, hi everybody. Thanks for the
  • 31:59 - 32:03
    talk. Not really a question, but just a
    heads up. There is going to be, according
  • 32:03 - 32:11
    to my knowledge, a KiCad beginner
    workshop on friday at 9 in the evening.
  • 32:11 - 32:14
    Just for those interested.
    Emily: Cool.
  • 32:14 - 32:17
    Mic: Maybe you show up as well.
    Laughter Emily: Maybe
  • 32:17 - 32:20
    Herald: Another question form the cernter
    front microphone.
  • 32:20 - 32:26
    Question: To the usual PCB interested
    person, how would you recommend
  • 32:26 - 32:33
    to find and select a fab?
    Emily: For regular PCB, like if you are
  • 32:33 - 32:40
    just trying to make a square, I think any
    of them will probably work. For me, like
  • 32:40 - 32:45
    when I was trying to do the Christmas
    tree, I sent it to 3 different fabs. And
  • 32:45 - 32:50
    one of them I have a contact there,
    because I actually visited that fab at one
  • 32:50 - 32:58
    point. And so that worked out. But when I,
    acually the purple picture is from
  • 32:58 - 33:04
    OSH Park, and they say somewhere, that
    they don't deal with internal holes.
  • 33:04 - 33:12
    Yeah, so I would just contact people. Just
    email people if you have something weird.
  • 33:12 - 33:16
    Email people and see if they can do it.
    Because most people who have a PCB fab
  • 33:16 - 33:21
    want money and will work for money.
    Laughter
  • 33:21 - 33:24
    Herald: Next question again center front
    microphone, please.
  • 33:24 - 33:28
    Question: Yeah. Very, very specific to
    your talk.
  • 33:28 - 33:34
    You said that the DXF format
    that Fusion puts out is not directly
  • 33:34 - 33:40
    readable, without loss, by KiCad. I missed
    the software you use to convert it.
  • 33:40 - 33:45
    Emily: Ah, it's DraftSight. So...
  • 33:45 - 33:47
    ... this ...
  • 33:47 - 33:50
    this slide. So thats how it's spelled.
  • 33:50 - 33:52
    Q: I see, thanks.
  • 33:52 - 33:54
    A: Yeah, and in that software they have,
    I don't know,
  • 33:54 - 34:00
    maybe 20 different types of DXF and
    other formats you can save things in.
  • 34:00 - 34:02
    So when I worked for the Swiss watch
    industry
  • 34:02 - 34:07
    we would have to take all our files and
    save it in the right one from customers.
  • 34:07 - 34:09
    Herald: Next question, center front
    microphone
  • 34:09 - 34:12
    Question: Hey everybody.
    If I wanted to find a lot of people
  • 34:12 - 34:15
    who already know KiCad,
    where would be the best place to look?
  • 34:15 - 34:17

    Emily: An electrical
  • 34:17 - 34:20
    Herald: Probably the workshop.
    Emily: Yeah.
  • 34:20 - 34:21
    Question: Well it's for beginners.
  • 34:21 - 34:24
    I'm talking about people who already
    know KiCad. It's like,
  • 34:24 - 34:27
    is there like one main discussion
    group in Usenet or something like
  • 34:27 - 34:30
    central point on the internet to
    find those people?
  • 34:30 - 34:34
    Emily: Yeah.
    Herald: The audience says: "Go to IRC.
  • 34:34 - 34:36
    There should be a KiCad channel."
    Emily: Again, I
  • 34:36 - 34:38
    Herald: Probably on freenode.
    Emily: Again, like he mentioned, I was a
  • 34:38 - 34:42
    broken person, who couldn't leave my
    appartment for actually it was a very,
  • 34:42 - 34:48
    very long time. But, he was my answer for
    everything. I was just like "I don't
  • 34:48 - 34:54
    understand after an hour. Can you fix
    it?", he's like "OK". So I'm not
  • 34:54 - 34:57
    knowledgeable on that.
    Herald: Next question from our signal
  • 34:57 - 35:01
    angel handling the watchers at home.
  • 35:01 - 35:07
    microphone issues
  • 35:07 - 35:20
    Emily: Thanks.
  • 35:20 - 35:23
    Herald: Next question center front
    microphone.
  • 35:23 - 35:29
    Question: Hi, thanks for your talk. I just
    have question about the mousebites.
  • 35:29 - 35:34
    How do you convert them from the
    edgecut format to drilling, actually?
  • 35:34 - 35:40
    Answer: So, I just leave them as edgecuts,
    honestly, and they magically work.
  • 35:40 - 35:46
    Mic: OK, not the answer I expected.
    Thanks.
  • 35:46 - 35:52
    Herald: Are there any more questions?
    Last call for questions.
  • 35:52 - 35:55
    No, doesn't look like it.
    Well please give Emily Hammes
  • 35:55 - 35:57
    a nice round of applause
    for her excellent talk.
  • 35:57 - 36:07
    Applause
  • 36:07 - 36:11
    Emily: Yep, and if you are watching
    online, not during congress
  • 36:11 - 36:13
    you can contact me that way.
  • 36:13 - 36:18
    postroll music
  • 36:18 - 36:38
    subtitles created by c3subtitles.de
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Title:
35C3 - Artistic PCB Design and Fabrication
Description:

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Video Language:
English
Duration:
36:38

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