Disciple-making movements � - 75 families has already signed up before the kickstart �
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0:01 - 0:02Hello everyone out there!
-
0:02 - 0:06I am in Nürnberg right now. We are
going to have a kickstart this weekend. -
0:06 - 0:11We will start tomorrow morning and
I'm here with Julio Mazara -
0:11 - 0:14And he works with Disciple Making Movents.
-
0:14 - 0:15And we want to talk about that.
-
0:15 - 0:19We want to do a video here where
we'll talk about -
0:19 - 0:20Disciple Making Movements.
-
0:20 - 0:23We want to talk about what God is
doing -
0:23 - 0:27and I think that you will find this video
very, very interesting. -
0:27 - 0:29And we just want to talk about it.
-
0:29 - 0:32First, before we start...
-
0:32 - 0:37A few days ago, back in Denmark,
I was talking about fulfilling the race -
0:37 - 0:40and talked about what Paul is saying
in Corinthians, -
0:40 - 0:46that we are all in a run and we need
to run to win the prize. -
0:46 - 0:52And there it hits me. We often know
that we are in a run and in a race, -
0:52 - 0:54but what kind of race?
-
0:54 - 0:56Is that a 100 meters race
-
0:56 - 0:59or is it a marathon race
-
0:59 - 1:01or is it a life race?
-
1:01 - 1:04And the race, the run we are in,
it's not just 100 meters. -
1:04 - 1:08It's not about just starting and...
-
1:08 - 1:11It's about finishing.
It'a about completing the race. -
1:11 - 1:16And what I've seen with many people,
especially younger people - -
1:16 - 1:21they start very fast - On fire!
They start and they run as fast as they can -
1:21 - 1:26and then 200, 500 meters, one kilometer,
they stop and they don't have -
1:26 - 1:30any more energy and they give up,
or bitterness come in and they give up, -
1:30 - 1:35sin come in and slow them, doctrines
of demons and wrong things, -
1:35 - 1:38tradition come in, and suddenly they
are running in the wrong direction, -
1:38 - 1:44and there are so many things that
can hinder us in finishing the race. -
1:44 - 1:47And what we want to. We don't want
just to make decisions. -
1:47 - 1:49We want to make disciples.
-
1:49 - 1:53And you have a lot of experience also
with disciple making movements -
1:53 - 1:57and we want to talk about it.
And I want to hear what he have to say first, -
1:57 - 2:00and then I want to talk a little about the
Last Reformation, -
2:00 - 2:01what I see the next step is.
-
2:01 - 2:05Yes, thank you, Torben. I think this is
the reality we are living in the West, -
2:05 - 2:09in the western churches, that we see that
people are coming to faith, -
2:09 - 2:14people are experiencing Jesus, somehow,
and invitation is more: Come, -
2:14 - 2:17and just experience what we can give you
in this gathering, in this meeting, -
2:17 - 2:22in this church service. And the calling
from Jesus Christ is not only come -
2:22 - 2:25and just raise your hands and say:
Yes, receive me now, -
2:25 - 2:30but it's just enter the door, the small
door, but walk through the narrow path. -
2:30 - 2:36It's a long distance run. It's a daily life.
You are making a decision daily -
2:36 - 2:39to receive the gospel and to be led
by the Spirit, -
2:39 - 2:43not only to be filled once,
but to continue being guided, led -
2:43 - 2:48by the Holy Spirit, daily decisions,
spiritual, big and small decisions. -
2:48 - 2:50And this reality is that...
-
2:50 - 2:55I don't believe that this discipleship
can just happen in a gathering. -
2:55 - 2:59Discipleship happens daily.
Discipleship can happen across the table. -
2:59 - 3:05It's much easier when you are as a family,
as a group of people who are close, -
3:05 - 3:08confessing sins to one another,
living lives together, -
3:08 - 3:11experiencing how God is touching
people through your life, together. -
3:11 - 3:16We get discipled from the moment
we receive Jesus until we die. -
3:16 - 3:21Yeah. So, it's not like a three years
program and then you are -
3:21 - 3:24finished. You continue growing
the whole life. -
3:24 - 3:31And one thing with discipleship is -
you cannot do discipleship alone. -
3:31 - 3:34That is a body. That is where you,
actually, follow somebody -
3:34 - 3:37as they follow Christ and we follow
each other. -
3:37 - 3:40For people out there, they don't know
the word, maybe, -
3:40 - 3:42disciple making movement.
-
3:42 - 3:46Now we are not talking about churches.
We are talking about movement, -
3:46 - 3:47disciple making movement.
-
3:47 - 3:51Can you come with some examples
of disciple making movements -
3:51 - 3:53and what God is doing all over the world?
-
3:53 - 3:58Yes, we believe that when Jesus Christ
said: As you go, make disciples -
3:58 - 4:03of all nations, and so on. This is the
call that is from Jesus Christ -
4:03 - 4:07to every single believer on earth.
It's not only for leaders, -
4:07 - 4:09it's not only for people that
went to Bible seminar. -
4:09 - 4:12It's for every believer,
that can go and make disciples. -
4:12 - 4:16We see around Europe what's happening.
-
4:16 - 4:19We see south, Poland, around the
mountains, -
4:19 - 4:21people are just making disciples.
-
4:21 - 4:24Thousands of people are coming
to faith and you meet them -
4:24 - 4:29and you just experience the love and
you experience the pure gospel -
4:29 - 4:32of Jesus Christ, they are experiencing
and they are living all together. -
4:32 - 4:38You go to some places where this
movements are just starting, -
4:38 - 4:43like in some countries in Europe. And you
can go on the other side of the globe -
4:43 - 4:47and see movement with 28
generations, 40 generations. -
4:47 - 4:50Like, how did God do that?
Through simple people -
4:50 - 4:54that are not just going to a gathering,
but they know: -
4:54 - 4:57Okay, making disciples is about
each one of us. -
4:57 - 5:00We are filled with God's Spirit,
with God's presence -
5:00 - 5:03and wherever we go, we share
the gospel of Jesus Christ. -
5:03 - 5:04That's making disciples.
-
5:04 - 5:09I remember, before many years ago,
when we were working with church planting, -
5:09 - 5:12and then I went to Sweden and I met
a guy from India -
5:12 - 5:15who was working with a disciple movement
down there, -
5:15 - 5:19and they the last ten years have baptized
five million people. -
5:19 - 5:22And it was really mind-blowing.
First time I met that, -
5:22 - 5:24because in my little world at that time
I was like: -
5:24 - 5:28But this is not what I hear and see
ond God TV and Christian channels. -
5:28 - 5:32It's not what I read in Christian
newspapers, -
5:32 - 5:39because it's Holy Spirit led,
it's not man-control -
5:39 - 5:44and it's not a big machine. It's just
something that is growing and it's spreading. -
5:44 - 5:50And we have stories like that from India
and Pakistan and China -
5:50 - 5:56and South America, where we talk about
10.000 and 10.000 people who actually... -
5:56 - 5:59becoming disciples. We are, of course,
are longing for... -
5:59 - 6:00Where are you from?
What country? -
6:00 - 6:02Domenican Republic.
-
6:02 - 6:06And you came to Europe, to Germany,
because you love... -
6:06 - 6:07Yeah, God sent me here.
-
6:07 - 6:09God sent him there.
-
6:09 - 6:10No, because of the weather I came.
-
6:10 - 6:13And that is the thing. You came here
because you want to see the same -
6:13 - 6:15in Europe.
- Yes. -
6:15 - 6:18And I love travelling all over the world,
but I also have a heart for Europe, -
6:18 - 6:23to see it here. What do you see
God is doing in Europe, right now, -
6:23 - 6:26when we talk about disciple making
movents? -
6:26 - 6:32I lot. Really a lot. Disciple making
movement is not something -
6:32 - 6:35that is very present in the media,
very present there online, -
6:35 - 6:39or on the television, Christian television,
because disciple making movement -
6:39 - 6:43is something that happens from
grass roots and then from -
6:43 - 6:48people's perspective, people are coming
to faith and they see they... -
6:48 - 6:52One of the groups we have here
in the city, -
6:52 - 6:56this woman got baptized, we went into
her house, her husband was still not -
6:56 - 7:00coming to faith, but she is really seeing
how the Bible, every week -
7:00 - 7:02we are together with her husband
and we are coming, -
7:02 - 7:06just step by step, now he starts
praying, and now the neighbors are coming, -
7:06 - 7:09and this is not happening in Nürnberg.
Many cities in Germany, -
7:09 - 7:14and other countries, you see the families,
normal believers, -
7:14 - 7:18they make a decision: Okay, we don't
have a big institution, -
7:18 - 7:22but we have decided together,
to be the light of Jesus in our neighborhood, -
7:22 - 7:26in our city, and we have decided that we are
going to share the gospel, -
7:26 - 7:30we are going to invest time, dedicate
resources and just invest in people. -
7:30 - 7:33And they are finding creating way to
share the gospel. -
7:33 - 7:36They do it with volleyball... They do it
wherever they go. -
7:36 - 7:39They bring this presence of God.
They pray for people, -
7:39 - 7:42they share the gospel, they care
of their neighborhood, -
7:42 - 7:46and this is what is really impacting
families and this looks to me -
7:46 - 7:48like what was happening in the
New Testament, -
7:48 - 7:52right there, in the Book of Acts.
Normal, regular people. -
7:52 - 7:56Big church of Antioch, how did the
church of Antioch start? -
7:56 - 8:02Just Paul... kill Stephen... just was
there, clothes put on his feet. -
8:02 - 8:07Some people run away and they,
"regular" believers arrived in Antioch -
8:07 - 8:11and started the biggest sending
churches, started many churches -
8:11 - 8:15and then became the church, actually,
that Paul, that sent Paul out -
8:15 - 8:19as a missionary. So, it is starting
with regular disciples. -
8:19 - 8:23And when we say "the church",
that was not one main building, -
8:23 - 8:28with one organization. That was
people who were trained and sent out -
8:28 - 8:30to train and send.
-
8:30 - 8:34Just for you, who are in the churches,
"normal" system, -
8:34 - 8:38many years ago, I remember, when
I got contact with people -
8:38 - 8:41from disciple making movements
and people who came from... -
8:41 - 8:46They also use names as:
"Organic Church" and "Simple Church", -
8:46 - 8:48I was still in the old way of thinking
about church, -
8:48 - 8:51and he asked me a question,
because we had a church at that time. -
8:51 - 8:56He said: "Torben, what will you do if you
see ten people get saved next week?" -
8:56 - 8:59And I: "Cool. I would love that.
Than I would do what I do. -
8:59 - 9:02We will continue, and so on."
-
9:02 - 9:05"What if you see hundred people
get saved?" -
9:05 - 9:10"Okay. Then we can do. We just need
two, three extra meetings, -
9:10 - 9:13but we can do it without buildings
and what we have." -
9:13 - 9:16"What if you see thousand people
get saved?" -
9:16 - 9:20"Then we need a new building
and we need more staff -
9:20 - 9:22and we nee to organize different..."
-
9:22 - 9:24"What if you see 10.000?"
-
9:24 - 9:32"Like... We cannot organize it. It's
impossible to organize growth -
9:32 - 9:35of that size."
So, when we talked about India, -
9:35 - 9:38that five million people have get
born again, -
9:38 - 9:44in that network, the last ten years,
or baptized, there and there and there, -
9:44 - 9:49it's really something that is not
controlled and organized -
9:49 - 9:52the way we in the western church
often think it. -
9:52 - 9:54We are also talking about
multiplication. -
9:54 - 9:57When we are talking about
multiplication, not adding... -
9:57 - 10:01If you have a church and you add
100 people a year, -
10:01 - 10:07then it goes from 100 to 200 to 300
to 400 to 500. It's adding. -
10:07 - 10:11When we talk about multiplication,
we go from 4 to 8, from 8 to 16, -
10:11 - 10:16from 16 to 32. It doesn't sound as much
in the beginning, -
10:16 - 10:21but when it's suddenly 100.000
who are 200.00, who are 400.000, -
10:21 - 10:26800.000... Then it's crazy.
-
10:26 - 10:29And when we talk about that,
with growth, -
10:29 - 10:35I don't think... Okay, if I have a church
with 100 people, -
10:35 - 10:39to go in and get a growth of 100%
make the church grow -
10:39 - 10:44from 100 to 200. That is very, very
difficult. -
10:44 - 10:48But, we can take every disciple,
one by one, and get them to grow -
10:48 - 10:52with one next year. Or take two
disciples and get them to grow -
10:52 - 10:57with even eight. I've seen that
again, again, again and again -
10:57 - 11:02that we are taking two disciples
and in one year they are 8 people. -
11:02 - 11:05We are talking about 300% growth
or 400%. -
11:05 - 11:09We are talking about a lot of growth.
And that is where the growth is. -
11:09 - 11:13The body is in the molecules,
it's in the cells, -
11:13 - 11:15it's growing all the time.
There is life. -
11:15 - 11:19And this is what we can see movement by.
Movement is by -
11:19 - 11:23everyone becoming disciples and
everyone bear a little fruit. -
11:23 - 11:26Can you see a little about
disciple movements? -
11:26 - 11:30The movement is composed by
a group of disciples -
11:30 - 11:34who decide to incarnate the ministry
of Jesus Christ in their environment. -
11:34 - 11:40Is there anything wrong about numbers,
about having 100, 600 people -
11:40 - 11:45in a church? No, big numbers are
not the problem, -
11:45 - 11:48but 600 - What? - do you have there?
-
11:48 - 11:53600 participants, 600 people that go,
sit down and enjoy your service. -
11:53 - 11:55This is not what Jesus Christ is
talking about. -
11:55 - 11:59He says: Make disciples. And they
will authority in my name, -
11:59 - 12:03they will just preach the gospel
of Jesus... -
12:03 - 12:05What fruit are you seeing?
-
12:05 - 12:08If you obey my commandments,
you will be my friends. -
12:08 - 12:11You say: The love of God,
by His love you have been regenerated -
12:11 - 12:15and saved, and you have confessed
your sins and now you live a new life. -
12:15 - 12:17Has this become a priority for your
life? -
12:17 - 12:20Or is it just something else that you
add to your list of things -
12:20 - 12:21that you have in your life?
-
12:21 - 12:25This is, I think, the main difference.
-
12:25 - 12:27For example, for many people,
when they talk about house fellowships -
12:27 - 12:29or house churches... Like... Oh.
-
12:29 - 12:34These are just the people that were
hurt and just sad about -
12:34 - 12:36the Sunday morning church, and
they are just upset -
12:36 - 12:38and they just start a house church.
-
12:38 - 12:42No, I am sorry. That's not house
fellowship or house church. -
12:42 - 12:45When you see the Book of Acts -
that are fellowships and house churches. -
12:45 - 12:47That's how it started.
-
12:47 - 12:50When Jesus Christ's disciples churches
were happening around the houses. -
12:50 - 12:53So, when we are talking about
disciple making movement, -
12:53 - 12:59we are talking just to make it simple -
of disciples who are investing -
12:59 - 13:02their lives into making disciples.
-
13:02 - 13:06Even if I preach at a conference
or a church, -
13:06 - 13:09and if that was everything I did,
-
13:09 - 13:11I think I am not obeying Jesus
by making disciples. -
13:11 - 13:15If you are working in a church
and you are working in a "welcome team", -
13:15 - 13:19or you are working in a church and you
invest five hours in "the cafeteria team", -
13:19 - 13:23is that making disciples?
I don't think it is. -
13:23 - 13:26Do you need to do it? Yes, there are
models and ways that you do, -
13:26 - 13:31for investing into people, but you
are missing out the great blessing -
13:31 - 13:34of experiencing the Holy Spirit,
working through your life, -
13:34 - 13:38seeing people's lives being transformed,
taking steps of faith, -
13:38 - 13:41going to risk and seeing God transform
your friends, -
13:41 - 13:43because we are not ashamed of
the gospel. -
13:43 - 13:46You are, wherever you go, sharing the
gospel and living the life -
13:46 - 13:49and this is the thing. For me it is
a little bit difficult -
13:49 - 13:56when I try to explain: Okay, why do we need
to really make disciples? -
13:56 - 13:58Because this is what Jesus Christ
commanded us. -
13:58 - 14:01And this is how it looks like.
Living a daily life. -
14:01 - 14:05And when you are a part of disciple
making movement, -
14:05 - 14:08you are going to see how they are
people, -
14:08 - 14:11you have Paul that have been
investing in you, discipling you -
14:11 - 14:15and he trained you, he saw you
growing from spiritual baby, -
14:15 - 14:18to a spiritual teenager,
you were rebelious -
14:18 - 14:21and then you are getting older
and you are investing your life -
14:21 - 14:26in Titus and Timothy, and this is
the cycle that is continuing. -
14:26 - 14:28So, it is not just: I go on the street
or I go to my friends, -
14:28 - 14:32I'll give them a card, and ...
by them for a Christian gathering. -
14:32 - 14:37No, you are sharing the gospel.
You are discipling them -
14:37 - 14:40and this is a process. It's not
one time thing, -
14:40 - 14:42like Torben says: This is not a
one weekend thing. -
14:42 - 14:47It's a lifelong process, and sometimes
you can keep this touch -
14:47 - 14:49with this person for nine months,
for one and a half year, -
14:49 - 14:51and they are strong.
And you send them. -
14:51 - 14:55This characterized the church
in the New Testament. -
14:55 - 14:58They were trying to find their vest
asset, their vest element. -
14:58 - 15:02Okay, we send them. It's not about:
Let's get the best people, -
15:02 - 15:05they must give the people to keep
them here home. -
15:05 - 15:09Let's send them. Let's see the movement
starting in another place. -
15:09 - 15:12These are some of the characteristics
of this disciple making movement. -
15:12 - 15:15I will ask you a little about how you
are working. -
15:15 - 15:16First, I want to add two things.
-
15:16 - 15:19The whole thing of...
-
15:20 - 15:23Look at church as a family, where
babies come in, -
15:23 - 15:27and then they get milk, they grow up
and become young ones in the faith -
15:27 - 15:32and then they end up being fathers
where you leave home -
15:32 - 15:34and you get your own kids.
The same way in church. -
15:34 - 15:40We should never keep people for us,
for all eternity. -
15:40 - 15:43People should be with us for a
short time and leave us, -
15:43 - 15:47being sent out and then they get
their own spiritual kids. -
15:47 - 15:50We are all called to have kids.
-
15:50 - 15:53It's not only pastors who are called
to get spiritual kids. -
15:53 - 15:58We are all called to grow up to
maturity and get kids. -
15:58 - 16:03And what I think we need is...
-
16:03 - 16:08a higher focus on discipleship
-
16:08 - 16:11and a lower control.
-
16:11 - 16:15In many churches I was part,
there was a lot of control -
16:15 - 16:17and almost no discipleship.
-
16:17 - 16:20But we have to have a higher
standard in what it takes -
16:20 - 16:23to follow Christ, and talk about
holiness, and that, -
16:23 - 16:26but we need a deeper freedom.
Freedom where is not about -
16:26 - 16:30the name and title.
It's about the Kingdom. -
16:30 - 16:34And this is what we want to do.
We want to spread, -
16:34 - 16:38because, remember, when days are
over and our Lord Jesus is coming back, -
16:38 - 16:42there is no title; then it's not going
to be about TLR or other names, -
16:42 - 16:46or Baptists, or what people call it.
It's only one thing. -
16:46 - 16:47That is people who follow Christ.
-
16:47 - 16:51What we want to do here
this weekend -
16:51 - 16:55is that he's already working with
networks all over Germany -
16:55 - 17:00and he got a good idea, so when people
sign up for this kickstart weekend, -
17:00 - 17:07we actually put in, so people can sign up
if they want to continue with -
17:07 - 17:11house network and continue with things.
Can you say a little about -
17:11 - 17:15what we are doing here and what you
have been working with? -
17:17 - 17:21When people come and experience this
weekend and some of them -
17:21 - 17:25meet the Lord for the first time,
and some of them get baptized, -
17:25 - 17:30they have a great encounter with Jesus,
that they are not just going back home -
17:30 - 17:33and then just experience that they are
alone -
17:33 - 17:35because when you are on your own,
-
17:35 - 17:39I mean, Christianity was meant by God
to be the living community. -
17:39 - 17:42And this is why He said:
"I will edify my church." Himself. -
17:42 - 17:47Jesus said this. So, when they go back,
we all need to have this fellowship -
17:47 - 17:50and this community. So, we just
said: -
17:50 - 17:55Okay, if you come to the kickstart,
do you want us to just then -
17:55 - 18:00let us send a team where we go to you
and train you how to start -
18:00 - 18:04a house fellowship or a house church?
Or option B, after the kickstart, -
18:04 - 18:08would you like us to send a team
that we can go and train your church? -
18:08 - 18:12And what happened, that 75 families
from around Germany said: -
18:12 - 18:14Yes, please, come and help me
start a house church -
18:14 - 18:19and 12 families wrote back saying:
Yes, please come train our church -
18:19 - 18:27on discipleship. Torben said before:
We are not trying to go against church. -
18:27 - 18:32We don't hate church. We love church.
Jesus Christ meant that -
18:32 - 18:34and we want to see that.
-
18:34 - 18:36We want to be part of blessing of God,
-
18:36 - 18:42that we see more strong disciples
being birth out of every single church. -
18:42 - 18:51If I look at "The Last Reformation",
what was I working last years, -
18:51 - 18:54there have been some people
criticizing and say: -
18:54 - 18:56Hey, what about this.
We need to follow up, -
18:56 - 18:59we need to do this and this.
And from the beginning, -
18:59 - 19:01I actually agreed that there
was a need for more, -
19:01 - 19:05but at the same time we can
only work with what we have. -
19:08 - 19:11If I don't have people to send,
I cannot send people, -
19:11 - 19:15so we need workers. But what I have
seen the last years have been: -
19:15 - 19:18It starts with a kickstart, and then
a kickstart weekend, -
19:18 - 19:21and then we tried even more,
also with apostolic teams -
19:21 - 19:24we are working with in Denmark,
at the "Jesus Center", -
19:24 - 19:28to really train people to send people out.
-
19:28 - 19:32And what is good now with Germany
is that Julio is already here -
19:32 - 19:35and works with a big network.
And this is people with different names, -
19:35 - 19:40and it doesn't matter. And there is
already a network there, -
19:40 - 19:45so when we come in, we can actually
help to... -
19:45 - 19:48We have many people who come
this weekend just to get baptized, -
19:48 - 19:51to get set free from demons,
to be born again, -
19:51 - 19:54because they have seen videos
and they are longing for it, -
19:54 - 20:00and now we are getting closer
so now we have a team established, -
20:00 - 20:03ready to follow up on them.
-
20:03 - 20:09My dream in the future is that
we would be able to really have teams -
20:09 - 20:17where is more... like... specific
experts in that way so -
20:17 - 20:20if you have a house fellowship
or church, or network, a place, -
20:20 - 20:25who say: Hey guys, I'm calling here
because we have a issue. -
20:25 - 20:27We have problems with some
doctrines. -
20:27 - 20:29Okay, we send a teacher.
-
20:29 - 20:33Or, hey, we have a problems with...
Okay, we send a shepherd. -
20:33 - 20:34We send an apostle.
We send a prophet. -
20:34 - 20:39Hey, we are group here.
We don't see anyone born again. -
20:39 - 20:43Okay, we send an evangelist.
So, we actually have apostolic teams -
20:43 - 20:47with people who are strong in
different areas, -
20:47 - 20:50like Philip and the apostles.
Philip was in Samaria, -
20:50 - 20:53the apostles came, Book of Acts 8,
helped Philip, took over, -
20:53 - 20:59lay a foundation. Because of that,
Philip became free to go to the eunuch -
20:59 - 21:02and from the eunuch all over the place.
-
21:02 - 21:06And that is the thing - to really come in
and work together and build something. -
21:06 - 21:09I think, when this is...
-
21:09 - 21:12I am often thinking:
We want to build the Body -
21:12 - 21:15to the fullness of Christ.
Ephesians 4. -
21:15 - 21:17But what is the gift God have
given? -
21:17 - 21:20Some of it is the fivefold ministry
and given different gifts -
21:20 - 21:25to equip the saints. And I often
thought about that when... -
21:25 - 21:29When you read in the Bible that
you are the church, -
21:29 - 21:31you are the Body of Christ.
You can read it. -
21:31 - 21:36If I read it: You are the Body of Christ.
Than "you" can mean, for me - I. -
21:36 - 21:39No, he say: "you".
- Plural, yeah. -
21:39 - 21:44Body of Christ. Nobody is the
Body of Christ alone. -
21:44 - 21:49And I think, what is the next step
I see God is doing now is that -
21:49 - 21:55He is building people together
to really be more effective -
21:55 - 21:57in seeing continuous fruit.
-
21:57 - 22:04And what I believe we can see it,
like, let's say that there is one guy, -
22:04 - 22:06I know that there will be many
this weekend, but let's say, -
22:06 - 22:09one guy come and really get
radical and set free and born again -
22:09 - 22:15this weekend. When he go home
to his city, he has a network of people, -
22:15 - 22:20he has ten friends who have seen
the change in his life. -
22:20 - 22:23But he has the testimony, but he
doesn't have the foundation. -
22:23 - 22:27He has the testimony, but he doesn't know
how to preach the gospel. -
22:27 - 22:33If we could send people in who could
use his network or use the testimony -
22:33 - 22:37he has, to preach the gospel in,
we will see houses come to faith. -
22:37 - 22:38And that is the goal.
-
22:38 - 22:43And houses are coming to faith in a very
healthy way of church. We need to see -
22:43 - 22:48healthy churches, not churches that
are only led by one of the fivefold ministry. -
22:48 - 22:51We see much churches that are led
only by pastors. -
22:51 - 22:54And then people with apostolic gifting
have to go under the authority -
22:54 - 22:57of the pastor, evangelists have to go
under the authority of the pastor, -
22:57 - 22:59because this is not what we, actually,
see in the Bible. -
22:59 - 23:02We see that Paul was sending elders
to lead the church, -
23:02 - 23:06leadears of the church, and you have
this fivefold ministries to equip -
23:06 - 23:09the saints and to train the church,
so we all together. -
23:09 - 23:12When you see this apostolic teams
been sent and evangelists -
23:12 - 23:16preaching the gospel together,
we can all, like Paul said, -
23:16 - 23:20we are no longer slaves of the law,
or just following the law, -
23:20 - 23:24but we are led by the Holy Spirit,
that this control that comes... -
23:24 - 23:30Okay, one of this leaders is trying
to lead everybody else, -
23:30 - 23:34but a pastor is not an apostle
and an evangelist is not the teacher, -
23:34 - 23:38and then, since I'm not really you,
I need to control you, -
23:38 - 23:41so you can do what I wanted to do,
because the Holy Spirit would tell you -
23:41 - 23:43to do something different.
And we don't want that. -
23:43 - 23:48We want people who are not controlled,
not manipulated, -
23:48 - 23:52that when I am discipling one person,
I don't want them to grow -
23:52 - 23:55up to my height. I want them to
outgrow me. -
23:55 - 23:58I want them to come closer to
Jesus than I ever did. -
23:58 - 24:01I want to see more fruit than I
ever done. -
24:01 - 24:03I don't need them to know my name.
-
24:03 - 24:07I want them to just know Jesus
and just to continue bearing fruit. -
24:07 - 24:12This churches can be so powerful
because a spiritual child -
24:12 - 24:17stays always a child when I am
an adult that is his leader -
24:17 - 24:22and he has always to obey me
and blindly follow me -
24:22 - 24:25no matter what I say.
And I don't let him think. -
24:25 - 24:28He has only to do what I think.
This is control. -
24:28 - 24:31But when we are trying to bring
this spiritual kids -
24:31 - 24:35into spiritual adults, we relate to them
as adults to adults, -
24:35 - 24:39as they gain maturity, as they
prove it and we can see that -
24:39 - 24:42they obey Jesus, and that they live
and they walk in holiness, -
24:42 - 24:44they have received the gospel,
they live in holiness, -
24:44 - 24:48they've repented from their sins,
and you can see how they will be -
24:48 - 24:52making right decisions, because
the Holy Spirit is their leader. -
24:52 - 24:56They depend on Him, they obey Him
and love Jesus so much -
24:56 - 24:59that when Jesus says: Leave the
place where you are and -
24:59 - 25:03go to another place, they will say:
"Yes, sir!" You are my God, -
25:03 - 25:05you are my Savior, but you are
also my King and my leader -
25:05 - 25:09and I follow You and love You.
This is really what we dream of -
25:09 - 25:11and we dream of not only
because it's not only our dream. -
25:11 - 25:14We dream of that because this
is what Jesus Christ meant. -
25:14 - 25:17And this is the model we see
in the church in the Book of Acts, -
25:17 - 25:20in the church in the New Testament,
from the beginning to the end -
25:20 - 25:24of the New Testament. People who
just wholeheartedly surrender -
25:24 - 25:28their lives 100% and they follow Jesus.
And that can be in any area -
25:28 - 25:31of society, to impact society from
different points of views -
25:31 - 25:35and just be present in every area
of society. -
25:35 - 25:39For you who are still in, let's say you
are part of the modern system -
25:39 - 25:44and church and you are longing
for all of this, -
25:47 - 25:51as he said in the beginning, there are
many people who have been hurt -
25:51 - 25:55in the church and they go out and
start a house fellowship in rebellion, -
25:55 - 26:00to warn everyone. And that is not
what we believe in. -
26:00 - 26:07We believe that is a sound, somehow,
submission, but not in a controlling way -
26:07 - 26:10and I want to say something there
because many years ago -
26:10 - 26:15when I was in the church, I met many
leaders, but I didn't have many fathers. -
26:15 - 26:19The difference often in the mentality
is that I had leaders -
26:19 - 26:25who misused or wanted to use me
to show that they were special. -
26:25 - 26:28They wanted me to come under them,
to lift them up and say: -
26:28 - 26:31Hey, Torben is part of my thing.
-
26:31 - 26:37Where fathers, like a true father,
he wants his son to succeed -
26:37 - 26:41even more than he did himself.
A true father, if he has a son -
26:41 - 26:44and he is doing better, he will not
try to put him down and say: -
26:44 - 26:49"Who are you?" Because he knows
that the way he shows that he is, -
26:49 - 26:54actually, the good father, is by the son
becoming more better and -
26:54 - 26:58successful than himself. And I think
this is the thing I see God is doing -
26:58 - 27:03now, that He is sending people
together, who have that DNA in them -
27:03 - 27:09that is really to build people, not to
build a platform for themselves, -
27:09 - 27:12to build people and to grow people up.
-
27:12 - 27:16And I would say that I was... I was longing
for this for many, many years -
27:16 - 27:21and then, many years ago, there came
a guy, Steve Hill from Canada, -
27:21 - 27:25he came to me and he introduced me
to the House Church Movement -
27:25 - 27:28and network and all that. It was first time
I met somebody who actually -
27:28 - 27:33didn't want to control me, but just want
to set me free. -
27:33 - 27:39And it just changed everything, to get
to know him and get to know people -
27:39 - 27:45who was outside the little box I was in,
so I say - if you grow up in a little box, -
27:45 - 27:50and so on, God is doing something
new, God is doing something -
27:50 - 27:53you are maybe not aware of because
it's not what you hear. -
27:53 - 27:56And Julio is one of them who is
working with it. -
27:56 - 28:00And also over Germany. There are
people who now meet, -
28:00 - 28:03during the week, in different homes
and they come together -
28:03 - 28:06and disciple, and new people get,
and it is, actually, happening, -
28:06 - 28:10and if you also want to know
what is happening near you, -
28:10 - 28:13then you can contact us and maybe
we can put you in contact -
28:13 - 28:16with people near you or maybe
you are also one who say: -
28:16 - 28:21Hey, I have a home. We have some
people who are gathering, -
28:21 - 28:23but we need a little structure.
- Training. -
28:23 - 28:26Yeah, training, not structure to
control, but need training. -
28:26 - 28:29We need people who can lay a
foundation. -
28:29 - 28:30We need people who can give us
some tools, -
28:30 - 28:32how do we meet when we come
together, -
28:32 - 28:36and there are many models.
He works with T4T. -
28:36 - 28:39There's: in, up and out,
-
28:39 - 28:41backward, up, forward,
-
28:41 - 28:43there are many names of how
you come together. -
28:43 - 28:46You can read the Bible. You can
talk about what happend -
28:46 - 28:52during the week. There is not one
model that is the only thing that works. -
28:52 - 28:56It really has to do with people who are
there, but there are many ideas -
28:56 - 29:00you can get inspired by and you can
have some tools. -
29:00 - 29:03And then you can start to use it.
And most important is that we keep -
29:03 - 29:07develop, growing and making
disciples. -
29:07 - 29:11Can you say what do you encourage
people to, when it comes to all of that -
29:11 - 29:13with discipling people?
-
29:13 - 29:15My encouragement for you
would be: -
29:15 - 29:17If you come to the end of your life
and you want to look back, -
29:17 - 29:20what do you want to see?
-
29:20 - 29:23In your walk with Jesus, in your walk
with making disciples, -
29:23 - 29:26in your walk with serving the Lord
and blessing the people around you. -
29:26 - 29:30I think that can only happen if you
start now. -
29:30 - 29:35There are people in every single
country that can train you, -
29:35 - 29:40that can help you, that can equip you,
so you may can real life -
29:40 - 29:42impart in your neighborhood,
in your city. -
29:42 - 29:47Contact us. Contact us. We want to
help. We want to get you equipped. -
29:47 - 29:50We don't want to go and do your work.
We want to see you grow -
29:50 - 29:54so you bear fruit. Because Jesus is
in you, you are abiding in Christ, -
29:54 - 29:56and if you are abiding in Christ,
He promises, John, chapter 15, -
29:56 - 29:59that you will bear fruit. And this is
what we will like to see you do. -
29:59 - 30:02And that you will also living a life
that is free, -
30:02 - 30:05that you live a life that you see
that the Holy Spirit is leading you, -
30:05 - 30:07to see people touched by you.
-
30:07 - 30:10If you are in this, in that situation
in your life and say: -
30:10 - 30:12God, I want to really use my
life. -
30:12 - 30:15I know you have been using me
and I know you have been -
30:15 - 30:19touching my life, I want to see
this real impact, -
30:19 - 30:22this is maybe your time to
make a decision, -
30:22 - 30:25send us an e-mail, send Torben
an e-mail, send myself an e-mail, -
30:25 - 30:28and just say: Send us people,
let's program something, -
30:28 - 30:32or even better, different people
surround in your area -
30:32 - 30:36and say: Can we please have
a kickstart in this or those dates, -
30:36 - 30:40and just even before the kickstart,
we can go there, equip you, -
30:40 - 30:46train you, so you can build saved,
effective, reproducing homes -
30:46 - 30:49that can take the fruit when the
kickstart goes -
30:49 - 30:52and many people come to faith,
they are already ready, -
30:52 - 30:53even before the kickstart.
-
30:53 - 30:56The kickstart is more than just
going out on the street. -
30:56 - 30:59There is more and more who,
actually, come because they want -
30:59 - 31:02to be born again. And the kickstart
is, actually, really for people -
31:02 - 31:05to connect. We were just with together
with some people here -
31:05 - 31:11who, actually, met each other at a
meeting like that and get married, -
31:11 - 31:15met each other. Life is getting changed.
And it's really about connecting -
31:15 - 31:20with people who have the same thing.
-
31:20 - 31:23When you are missionaries, you don't
have to go to Africa and -
31:23 - 31:27stand of a platform in Zambia to be
a missionary. -
31:27 - 31:35You are missionary in everyday life.
You can make disciples. -
31:36 - 31:40If you reach just one person for Christ
this year and everyone do the same -
31:40 - 31:45next year, we just all need to do that
a few years and the world will change. -
31:45 - 31:50It's not so complicated. And I think
Satan has been very busy -
31:50 - 31:55saying to people: You cannot do it.
And I will say: You can. -
31:55 - 32:00You can and tools that have been
given to the Body to equip you -
32:00 - 32:04to do it are already there.
We just need to find them. -
32:04 - 32:06You need to connect with them.
-
32:06 - 32:11And many people who are even Christian
groups, Christian environment, -
32:11 - 32:15and they don't find that any of the gifts
you have seem to be like the gifts -
32:15 - 32:19that are valued or more recognized
at your place and you can find then -
32:19 - 32:23this idea of really making disciples
around you and you'll see -
32:23 - 32:27that God has been putting this
in front of you and want you to use them -
32:27 - 32:30to multiply, to touch people around you,
to set people free, -
32:30 - 32:34and you didn't even know that it was
in you because you never tried. -
32:34 - 32:36So, what can you do?
Try. -
32:36 - 32:37- Try.
- Do it. -
32:37 - 32:41Try. But, God bless you. If you can,
we are doing the kickstart weekend. -
32:43 - 32:49We have a venue problem.
We have on Sunday, we have room -
32:49 - 32:52for how many? Few hundreds?
- Yes. -
32:52 - 32:56And we have double signed up.
So, that would be good. -
32:56 - 33:00But, what we want to do is really
to connect people. -
33:00 - 33:05And if you want to connect with
local people, see where there is -
33:05 - 33:07a kickstart near you, come and join,
because it's more than just -
33:07 - 33:11coming and get kickstarted.
It's really coming and connect -
33:11 - 33:14with people you can walk with
afterwards. -
33:14 - 33:16And this is what we want to do
even more. -
33:16 - 33:17God bless you out!
-
33:17 - 33:19God bless you! May God use you
where ever you are! -
33:19 - 33:20Bye-bye!
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