How to Become a Real Estate Developer (Simple Steps)

What's up Wealth Matters Today

I've actually got somebody from

our coaching program

Who's doing things that

we dont usually teach too much

He's actually doing development

and he's doing it at 29 years old

with over $30 million dollars

in apartments developed

His family actually built the number 1

rated resort in Oregon

which actually includes a golf course

so, i'm going to pick his brain today.

about developing amazing properties

because you guys know,

I want to one day delevop

a golf course.

I got Dirk Vandervelde, whats up man

Hows it going Ryan, thanks for having me

Glad you came dude, this is exciting

to have a guy who's

built a golf course on the show

well your family, youve been a part of it

you've seen it firsthand

Let's jump right into that

Yea, I didnt build it myself

but I watched my father and mother do it.

My father was a European tour player

Mother was a school teacher

Big dreamers, always big dreamers

We grew up in the Netherlands

Once my dad retired from the European tour

his next dream was to

build his own golf course

In their fashion,

a European player and a school teacher

who are big dreamers, they partnered up

with one of their best friends

and they built what is today actually

this year got voted

the number 1 resort

in the Pacific Northwest

and whats that resort called?

its called Tetherow Resort

so, they built the actual course on there

the resort itself,

it's mainly just hotels and

do people live there?

Yea, they live there.

Its a beautiful golf course

You'd love it. Scottish link style

Dave Mclay Kidd, he designed it

It's a membership base, people live there

it's on a 720 acre piece of property

there's members that live there year round

and there's 50 hotel rooms

boutique beautiful hotels,

restaurants, rec center

as well as vacation rentals

How are the economics of all that

because your family, like you said,

your dad is a dreamer

he grew up like literally playing golf

professionally, so he knows

what that's all about

and Oregon is a beautiful spot

How do you decide to

just go build a golf course

and a hotel along with it?

My dad always jokes,

hes a developer by default

So, when we first moved

over from the Netherlands, 2005

He finished his European tour playing

then he coached for the Netherlands,

so he became a coach,

coached the Dutch Federation

took them to a world cup,

they won the world cup in Golf

said "okay, that's a big

accomplishment what's next?"

So he wanted to start a golf course

So he came over, we used to vacation

From the Netherlands, in central Oregon

Its a destination town, beautiful place

and slowly but surely,

everytime we would go there

my mom and dad

would dream about moving there

right, they would dream

about moving there

every year they would talk about it

then the idea came

hey, let's develop a golf course here

originally, he got hired on as

the developers representative for

the golf course

so he came on and was there working

with Dave Mclay Kidd and his team

as the development representative

sculpting the golf course

talking about what they should do,

where they should put the bunkers

how they should lay out the greens right

so he sculpted that

It took him from 2005

to 2008 to get everything built

built the golf course, get the plats

and then boom, the original developer

as 2008 hits, the

original developer goes into default.

We were packing up all of our boxes

we were

going to move back

to the Netherlands, my dad lost his job.

We were going to move

back to the Netherlands

and then through a series of conversations

and relationships, the bank who actually

took over the golf course reached out to

him and said, "hey can you

help us sell this thing"

he said "yea, i'll help you sell it" and

a lightbulb went off in his head

one of his best friends

who did really really well in oil

always wanted a golf course

so in a 3 month period, he brought his

friend over, they

looked at it, purchased it

and like he says he

was a developer by default

He just built around it

yea, they bought the course, the clubhouse

nothing else was done yet

they had like 3 homes that were sold

and then step by step they built hotels

they built the rec

center, they sold the lots

and as everything came out with 2008

they ended up on the right side of it

and it turned out to be good

so, they still own it to this day?

yea, oh yea

they just make cash flow from the business

on the course and the

hotel and everything?

yea, the biggest thing

is the membership right

thats the biggest recurring

How much is the membership fee there?

I think its too low,

but I think right now it's

like $650 for a golf membership, monthly

that's very cheap

thats what I was saying

there's a deposit fee that goes in

and then for social

membership its $3-400 bucks

and then whats like the initiation fee?

its $50,000 non refundable

ok, so 50K to join which, very normal

in alot of nice courses

and $650 a month is cheap

so when you develop your course

one thing that i've looked at

all those master plan developments

they get dictated by something called the

CC&R's, you already know about it

yup, the HOA.

Well, one of the challenges was

the original developer hadnt written into

those CC&R's that you could only increase

the dues by 4% every year.

Well we were in a bad economic time right

So rather than increase dues, we would try

to get people just to move in

So the key would have been once

the problem is once you record those and

people start buying, you have to get like

depending on the document

either 75% of the homeowners to vote

for adjusting them or

sometimes its even 90%

the key would be, when

you develop your resort

you dont tie it to a 4%,

just tie it to CPI

you can increase dues

tied to the CPI and it automatically

happens every year so you dont fall behind

on your membership program

We would probaly be

talking $1500-1600/month

if it was tied in that manner right

yea, alot of the courses i'm in are 1500

to $2000 bucks a month

Which is where it would be

if the raises were

happening or it was tied to CPI

Then you get, once

you're stuck, you're kinda stuck

Well, i'll tell you this, one of the

things I love about real estate is that

you know, you take, in this case a piece

of land in the middle of Orgeon

right, some guy looks

at it one day and its

like "this would be a

great spot for a golf course"

Im going to build a business on here.

then a real estate guy

looks at it and is like

we should build some houses,

we should build another

business and its just like

it's this one plot of land

whatever someone imagines

ends up becoming the business.

and that's what attracts me so much to

developing a golf course community one day

you know lets just say

you go get this amazing piece

of land, in Oregon, for instance and you

can go get it for $10 million bucks

and all of a sudden,

you could go literally create

a billion dollars of

value on this piece of land

you built the right homes,

you get the right amenities

you get the right

businesses on it, and you can

create a billion dollars of economic value

Its not hard to do, well I

dont want to say it's not hard

but it's like very feasible

That's even my addiction too right

you take a idea, you

see if its financially feasible

and then you get to

bring it to life every single day

and theres nothing like doing that

it's a addicting process,

and there is alot of equity created

Alot, I mean a ton both

on if you do it on a single family

side right, lets say you're

going to flip a house

flipping a house, whats the average profit

you guys usually make on flipping a house?

we aim for 10%

so in a number like 30 Grand, 50 grand?

Yea, the median house

right now is 400 grand

so were trying to make 40

make 40, on the ground

up side you're probaly

going to double that,

more like 80-100 grand

now its going to take a

little bit longer, probaly double

the time, you're not

going to just be able to put

lipstick on it but there's

definitely a lot more equity

creation in there,

alot more profit in there.

If you do it right

The thing I like about

developments too, so this

is all my theory in

talking to guys like you

and other big guys,

but it's just like you

have to find less deals,

if I want to go do 100 house flips

I have to find a

different deals, negotiate them all

and try to make my 10%

With developments,

you can go find one piece of land

you got your 100 lots, go build

and you got your 100

deals in one transaction.

And now you're going to

spend your next few years

doing them but still

It's a different ball game,

and its actually

more certain than a

flip because you know your costs

its just there, we're not

getting into these flips that you know

we get into something

and were like oh boy here's

an extra 20 grand that

we didnt see before and all that.

Exactly, when you're

doing a flip, you don't know

exactly what's behind

the walls, it is tricky

Even in the ground up

game, you said it right

it takes just as much

energy to do a big deal

as it does a small

deal right. Same process

same timelines, so you

might as well do a big deal

Might as well do 100 lots,

rather then, i've learned

that lesson the hard way.

I've had two houses

60 miles away and we're

doing the same exact house

on infield lots, ill never do this again.

I will only build in 3's,

if I do something

I will build in 3's or 5's or 10's

like all in the same vicinity?

yea, same subdivision

exactly like you said

If i'm 60 miles apart then

you have to factor in

my superintendents that

have to drive both ways

You just have to factor in all

these things that I learned the hard way

You're 29 and you've done

$30 million of development so far

So, what has that consisted of?

We just finished up a

84 unit, my first big deal

I ever put together was a 84 unit deal,

Tell me about that 84 unit deal.

So its 6 buildings, the land was,

as you know real

estate is a relationship game,

so one of my best

friends is a local realtor

He was at church,

and a guy that owned property

he bought 10 acres, so super smart guy

Kind of goes back to what you were saying

He bought 10 acres,

subdivided it into 4 lots.

Built 110 assisted living units,

that's his business.

Then he had 2 more lots

he was selling, he told my

buddy jake at bible study one night

"Hey, i'm trying to sell this land, do you

have anybody that would be interested?"

He brought it to me,

we looked at it quickly

We were able to very

quickly understand there was

alot of value in it,

and put a deal together

Kind of crazy how it all happened.

Yea, tell me like the numbers

and how it happened.

It was, He wanted about

1.2 for it, and the way

that mutli family games works.

If you wanted to quickly

understand what you can actually pay

for a piece of land, you want to

begin with the end in mind.

so it's all based on hey

when I finish this apartment

complex what is it worth

on the back end on a per unit

basis is how I always think

about it so I know that in that

area that a finished unit is

going to be worth about 250,000

per unit and I can work

backwards from there we use

What's called the 10%

rule so I'm going to want to pay no

more than 10% per unit for

the raw land or 25 Grand right

that's that's how we look at

the value that's how appraisers

typically look look at the value

he wanted 1.2 million for the

land or about 14,000 per

unit and I knew it was immediately

I knew it was going to get a

praise for around 25,000 per

unit so we tied the deal up

I at that time I didn't have much

cash I tied the deal up

with $12,300 down so I put 1% down

tied it up then we started

doing our all of our due diligence

got got the team in place

got it all tied up we had 6 months

of due diligence we started

pushing it out to different

investors and you know the

nice thing about deals like that

is once you have them in

control and tied up Banks want to

loan on multif family investors

want to put their money in if

you're going to get into the

land right and we tied it up in

June and before we had to

release our earnest money for

due diligence we had the

appraisal in place we had all our

hard costs in place it the

project cost us $19 million to build

all in and we had an

appraisal in place for 23 million so we

had $4 million of of equity

creation before

we even had to close on

the deal super easy to sell to investors

and in February of 2022 we

closed on it and started building

that same year so how much

did you have to raise to do

the deal we we ended up putting

four and a half million in so

you need four and a half million

of cash yeah the bank provided

the the rest of the 19

correct okay everyone knows

that my favorite way to build

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invest think that's the

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where we've trained thousands

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thing I've noticed that so many

people fail to get started in real

estate because they're

worried about the money they

don't know where they're going to

get the money to buy a

house or Flip or handle their

Renovations and things like that and

so they just never get started

I want to change that and that's

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that's you and then for people who don't

know like let's just walk

through this deal like how it

works actually so you had to go to

investors get four four and

a half million bucks right there at

close NOP we had to raise

raise we only had to

raise for the purchase price of

the land 1.2 million okay so you raised

for 1.2 million yep cash yep

then what how did the rest work

yeah so we knew we knew that

the total was going to be 4.5

but we didn't have to raise it

all at once close close for 1.2 okay

right get the land own the

land go and get the entitlements

and the permits to build and

then with construction the

nice thing is the bank's not

going to make you put all the money

in up front it'll be a trickle

to hit your Equity threshold

right so as construction

starts we get construction

draws let's say the general

contractor finish the foundation he's

going to bail us for that

once we hit that $4.5 million

Equity threshold then the loan starts

kicking in so it was a it

was a drawn out process a drip

process of of cash outlay right so

basically you guys had to

come up with the first 4 and a

half Mill correct like so there was no

loan it's like hey we're paying out

of pocket correct each step of

the way we've hit it now

they'll start funding the rest

yep based on that appraisal so

we did have Clarity on how

much we had to raise right

we knew that based on that

appraisal this is what the'll loan us

they gave us their loan amount

and then we were able to to

take it through yeah because at

that point you've got the

Landis collateral you've already

developed to a certain degree

and so you know they gave

you what was that 75% value yeah

exactly a little bit higher but

yeah okay yep so this was

in 2022 I mean we're now

at the end of 2023 when we're filming

this so you're already

done with that project yeah

we just finished it we

just started leasing

that was fast yeah it was

like I told you right we were

able to that's what I like about the

apartment development versus

like if you're going to go develop

a resort Community that's

big picture right you got to

have you got to be patient

you got to be 20 year game it's a 20-

year game so what I like

about the apartment is we

can get in and out in 24 months

right in and out in 24

months and now we're in

that phase the biggest thing with

development is there's really

three big things you have to

master you got to understand

your construction cost your

budgets right if your performers

aren't any good because you

don't understand your

construction cost if I wasn't in the

game myself if I didn't know what

it actually cost to build

units if I didn't know the

day-to-day of what it costs it' be really

hard to do it right so you

got to know your numbers

because you could literally kill a project

let's say I told everyone

that it's a great project but we

built it for 24 million and it's only

worth 23 that that it

happens right so but it looks

great but it looks really

good so you got to

know your you got to know your

numbers then the debt

structure is one of the most

important things as well

right I think one of the one of the

things that we looked at was hey

where interest rates at

we decided to work with a

small Regional Bank and we locked in the

typical process would be

you'd get your construction loan

get it stabilized and then you'd

put permanent debt on

we didn't really want to be guessing in

today's interest rates where

it was going to be at so we

locked in our interest rate our

11 and 1/2 year play 18 months

interest only and then

permanent loan amzed over 30

years with a 10-year balloon we

locked that in up

front so we were able to lock in

the debt at how much go ahead how much

how much did you lock it

in at 5.35 under yeah well we

underrot at 6% so we're happy right

this the classic saying of

under promise overperform yeah right

and then the third thing on

the underwriting we were

good on the debt structure we

were good on the budget side the

third component is

then what are the rents actually

going to be so what I

like about that versus trying

to analyze what you're going to be

able to sell a house for rents

are way more sticky

6 months 12 months right we can

look at rents and they may flatten

but we're not going to

see like in a neighborhood if somebody

decides to sell their house

for $50,000 cheaper

that's going to kill our comps right

I you know but with rents it's a lot

more sticky so that

prediction that kind of future

bet it's much more reliable and

that's the stage we're in

now is hey what did we what did we

perform our rents for and what

are we getting rents for

and we're very blessed that you

know we we underwrote it very

conservatively in three

scenarios worst case realistic

best case and we're hitting our best

case rents so that's

amazing so how much are they

the rent is on average is about 1,800

1,800 these are one or two

bedrooms it's a mix three bedrooms

two bedrooms one

bedroom okay yeah got it so

84 units average rent is

1,800 bucks yeah so

what's the nooi looking like

it's going to be yeah yeah the I

mean from a a typical side right

we're run we'll run it probably

28 to 30% expense ratio there

in Oregon real numbers right Y and

the noi will land we're

Landing at in that5 to 120 a

month okay range and then

um before debt yeah that

and what's the cap rates out

there right now yeah for that's

like a Maris property it's like

beautiful really really good

property they've gone up with

interest rates right so I would say

that that's about a between a

five and a half to six cap right now

in today's market but we

wouldn't we wouldn't really

be interested in trading it unless

it's at five and a half to five

yeah you know it just doesn't

make any sense so just for those

listening right the reason

basically I just said a bunch

of terms that people don't get so

like the way that you

determine the value of a

commercial property is that

you know you're going to take the noi

divided by the cap rate and so

like in this case you know when

they were like hey it's worth

23 million they were essentially

projecting hey you know this property

should produce this

much net operating income and

based on what properties are

trading for you know it's

basically cap rate um that's

what this property is valued at

exactly and so because we had

higher rents you know it's the

value of that property we'll see how

it shakes out but it's it's it's

north of 23 million for sure yeah

because just based on you saying the

math you said I mean

like at 180 or sorry you said

150 a month you know best case yeah

or noi 120 I would say

around okay so 120 times 12 months

I mean you're at 1.4 is M so let's

just say 1.5 million for

easy numbers and then you

know you divide that by let's

just say 6% so that's 25

million even at a six cap yep

exactly at a six cap right and that's

where so that's where you

know we look at that and and

and then we also look at you know

if you look if you look at where I t

hink it's headed we can hold on

to it we're happy with the

cash flow is the cash flow

phenomenal no I mean it's

nothing that's like crazy good

cash flow right if you study like

Assisted Living Memory Care

Assisted Living net free cash flow

it's crazy crazy Apartments

you know 400 500 bucks

net free cash flow 300 bucks net

free cash flow but as you wait

with time as you know what that

looks like in year three and

five or seven is a

whole different thing plus

all the I mean from a cost

segregation side 4.3 million is what

we're able to depreciate

based on the ceg we haven't got

we haven't got our our uh 45 L

yet which is all the Energy

Efficiency stuff but 4.3 million of

depreciation to the partnership

yeah and so for anyone

listening you know basically 4.3 million

of depreciation means that

you know all the investors

I mean depending on what they put

in and everything are going

to be able to split that right

off against you know if they're

real estate professionals against

their active income which is

crazy you know if if everyone

made 4 million that year they

could wipe out their

entire tax bill yeah yeah yeah now

we you know they're trying to phase

that out on us 80%

this year 60% starting next year

so yeah but so with that let's just talk

about like okay so the

apartment's done you guys are

getting leased up and everything's

going great um so you know

in development like the the

investors haven't been getting paid

anything to this point

right because there's been no

money coming in you know you're just

putting money going

out and that's one thing people

don't realize about like the

development game or

even just the fund game in

general it's like dude you ain't making

money for a long time

and I tell people that cuz you

know we have pen capital and we're in

over 600 units now

and I'm like guys like I have literally

like not made anything just so you

guys know there's a reason

I got to hustle and make some

content and you know flip some

houses and throw some events

because those are like active income

things right now but

my rentals you know our fund

you make your money when

you exit that's when you make

the money yeah that's when

you make all the money and

there's a couple ways you can do

it right you can if you like

the asset why I like new

construction is if you think about the

lifetime of our asset

right rather than buying a an old

one fixing it up Etc oh bro give me a

new one all day exactly

the lifetime's longer so there's

two ways we can get a c our Capital

out right we can for example

our rents are higher than we

expected now the value of the

property is 2 million we

could put additional debt on there

if it Services us and get some

cash out we could go

and probably get one or2 million

taxfree out of that property that

would be right away in year

one in year seven we could look

at hey do we want to sell it or

let's say it's worth 30 million

at that time because rent rent's

going to grow 2 3% a year

right we're going to see

we're going to see some good growth

there in general the cap rates

get back to normal exactly

we can sell in 1031 or we can

just refinance and have it be a you

know a tax-free event so

it's it's just one of those games I think

the key thing is to to look at

it have a business plan have a

couple ways you can pivot

and know just like you said

that that Capital will sit in

there but when you have that event

in year 3 57 it's going to be

great yeah so for people

wondering right I mean you're either

on the side of being the

developer which is what you

are and you're going to create the deal

and do all the work and

everything else or you're an investor

right you had to go raise over four

million bucks to do

this deal and you know the

investor it's passive for them y right and

now they're finally going

to start getting cash flow since this

thing's going to start you know

getting rented out and

producing cash um how do

you as a developer make money

because I'm saying well

you don't make money so how you

eating you know like so what

do you do yeah two there's

two things I got similar to

you I've got my general contracting

business I've got my single

family specs that I'm building and selling I'll build for other people as well right so that's kind

of my operating but there's

also if you go and control that

deal like I told you I tied that deal

up just me yeah didn't bring my

debt nobody was in it was

just me originally right Y and then

I go out and we pitch it to

different investors and

there's there's acquisition fees that get

layered into projects like

that there's developer fees that

get laid into projects like that and

so there's definitely Capital

that gets paid out I use it to put

straight into the deal right

yeah but so you're buying more Equity into it you've got it exactly because to me it's the

more the more property I can

accumulate you know the

happier I am it's an asset

accumulation game so

yeah that's what I tell people too

like even with our fund it's like all the

fees just go into paying overhead

yeah at the end of the day like yeah

I mean the. exactly like

if you look at it's not like I

got good money on fees went

straight into the deal

fees went into paying overhead

the fees aren't really a money maker

they're they might get

you because you did the

hustling you did the deal they

might get you into the deal so if

you're out there and

you're like you really want to

make something happen and you don't

have Capital the fees

can get your entry into the deal so

I mean that's that's what it was for

me right I didn't have

Capital to put in I own 5% of that deal

through a tick agreement and a

majority of that was

based on the development fee yep so

you do that and you know

obviously you guys are

going to be able to do whatever

you want here in the coming years

you can refi you can

exit everything else um tell me about

just like the other deals you're

doing like you said so you

guys are doing spec builds you guys

are doing um you know you

said you got some smaller

deals going on too yeah so we got a

24 unit that's in

construction right now we're

the general contractors on that as

well so you know that's been

going good that'll get done I'll

call it may of 2024 and

it's a again it's a smaller

deal it's it goes

back to what we were talking

about though right it's like it

takes just as much

energy to do that 24

unit as it does the 84 unit we

only have so much time so we're we're

looking at probably liquidating

that and then just focusing on the

larger deals um we've got

that going and then I've

I usually have somewhere between

10 to 15 homes under

construction as well now

are those 10 to 15 are those

usually just like home like tell me

about like the clients are

they just luxury homes for other

people are they deals you see

and you're like I'm just

basically going to flip you know

what are they yeah but I got a two

buckets I build we'll build

for others right from just a customer

build for others operational

business and where I'm

going to go where I want to go

ultimately is just building for myself

so I say mixed bag you

know I'm building fourplex for

myself and then right next door I'm

building one for my buddy

I'm building we got three specs

going we just sold two specs it's a

mixed bag between building

for others right and building for

ourselves But ultimately I

started that construction

company purely to build assets for

the family that's where it's

going to go so as long as I can

put enough development deals in front

of us we'll be good

we're developing uh we own a

beautiful piece of property right by

uh our local hospital there

and we are building our first

assisted living facility there as well

so that'll happen this year

2024 how many like units

and everything is that going to be yeah

it's it's going to be Memory

Care specific Oregon's really

interesting in in where if you look

at like the Medicaid

programs in general it's a

Memory Care it'll be 50 units 100 beds

so 50 units 100 beds got

it so like uh an assisted

living facility like is it I mean it's just

pretty much like a multif family

like I mean you're layering on

a massive amount of operation it's a

you're essentially getting

into Healthcare right so

you're laying on a bunch of additional

a bunch of additional

operational challenges I'm

just saying from the developer no it's

way it's way easier right

because if you think about

building a assisted living facility

we're just building ro we're

building common kitchens

not a kitchen in every single unit and

we're building rooms so

the costs per unit are going to

come down way more it's kind of like a

hotel it's kind of like a

hotel you got it yeah because

you're not doing apartments

that need all their own stuff

exactly so it's your cost per

unit come way down from what's

your cost per unit on those

yeah we're going to land about

100,000 per unit versus is on yeah

exactly on apartments

we land at about you know at

200 so yeah so okay 225 depending

on which one you're

built where we're at so you're at 100,000

a unit so you're going to be at like

5 million on that

property you've got it and

so what is your projections

on that because you know you were

talking earlier that assisted

living is great cash flow so how

are you seeing that play out

yeah so I mean we wouldn't even

Venture in it if I didn't have my

aunts and uncles have

been super successful on

the East Coast Midwest in the assist

living game they know it they

know it through and through

massively successful in it and

so we're venturing into

Oregon to just bring that

operation into the Pacific Northwest

when you look at after you

pay everything debt

Etc like we talked about on an

apartment unit let's say you're net free

cash flows 300 400 500

bucks with Assisted Living you're

talking somewhere between

2500 to three grand per

unit well excuse me per bed per

bed yeah because most of these

guys are paying

what to eight grand depends like Medicaid

specific programs you can really

figure out what you want to

do there's split ones private you

know private if you look at the

average over in Oregon I

would say it's right around seven

Grand a lot of that comes from

Medicaid right so Medicaid

pays Seven Grand a month for

memory care and you can do

split facilities so the way

we'll develop this is you'll have

the goal is majority memory

≥care but we also have

Assisted Living ability and in Oregon

that goes your Assisted Living

Medicaid programs are in

levels so from 3500 to five to

5500 depending on the care you

need Etc what is memory

care so for like people with

Dementia or Alzheimer's yeah okay

yep yeah it's Alzheimer's

and um dementia exactly interesting

so it's its own niche of um

Assisted Living it's exactly

right it's its own niche of assisted

living and you know it's it's

definitely if you look at like where

Alzheimer's are heading if you look

at where baby b baby

boomers are heading right if

you look at just pure numbers

we're I believe we're going to

see still a huge wave of Need

for assisted living facilities yeah so

you guys are building

that your your family is going to

basically handle the operations

because they already have

that built out you're you're

mainly focused on the real estate yep

then obviously you're going

to be able to learn yeah

when it's built yep how' you guys

build the 84 unit so quick I mean

to go be done in basically

18 months it's crazy yeah we

hired a amazing an amazing general

contractor who I

learned a lot from watching

them just for what we could bring

into our company right

and we had a couple benefits

happening for us it during covid you

know the last two three

four years it was really hard to get

subcontractors yeah well as as

we started our project that's

everything got slow exactly so we had

the luck of like when we

bid out our lumber package

originally it was coming in at you know

whatever it came in at

when we purchased it we

saved $310,000 so it was pure luck

I mean pure luck and then we

also had subcontractors

who all of a sudden now they

needed an anchor project because

interest rates came up

right we were already locked

in a lot of the home builders put their

projects on Halt and so

now all these subcontractors

who were busy busy busy they

needed a big anchor project

so we just got lucky I mean

pure luck and then hiring the right

group right I would hire

those guys through and through all

day long again I mean they were

just so good somebody might

be thinking well Dirk didn't you

just say that you have a

construction company why

didn't you just do it and make the

money with your company

yeah it wasn't good enough

yet needed to see it um it would

have taken us they built it so

we got it approv they

built it in 12 months it would have

taken us 18 all day so yeah you

know you got to sometimes

you got to be able to see what

other people can do you're just

not ready yet right

and I'm I know what I'm ready

and what I'm not and I'm not ready yet so

and I honestly I don't even

if you look at it what I want to scale

is development I don't want

to scale the construction

yeah no not even close so anyways

I think too number one I want

to point out to the

viewers that takes an immense

amount of self-awareness and

humbleness to say that

because number one gc's are some

of the hardest head people I've

ever met and so like

you look at this opportunity to

build 84 and like whether it's Pride or

ego whatever it's like a lot of

GC like no dude I'm G build this

thing this is my deal you know

I want to put my footprint

on this and I'm going to do it cheaper

and and better like that's a

gc's typical mindset right

and for you to be like no dude like I

definitely wasn't ready and it's

all good this guy is way

better than me and he got it done

quicker and I learned a ton from

it that's the mark of

somebody who is successful already

but going to continue to be

successful because one thing

I've seen from people um you

know especially in like the

coaching program which

you're in too which I'll talk to you

about in a sec because of like

you know once again why

even join a you know a house spping

and real estate coaching

program when you're kind of

like doing something completely

different so I'm curious to

hear that but like when I see

people join a program who already are

successful but they're

like look dude I still got something

I need to learn it tells me a lot about

them versus you

know I see a lot of people who

have had a level of success and

they think they know it all

and then they just kind of

like stagnate yeah yeah I mean I

couldn't agree more to answer

your question on the why

I joined your program I mean it's

you right fully 100% sent you

Daniel Kong shout out

to Daniel Kong I had a tax thing at the

end of the year and I was like I

got to spend some

money on education and he said

I trust him at that time I didn't really

have social media I

trusted him and he's like Ryan pan

all day and I even I think we even tried

to go through the sales

funnel with or you guys try to take

me through I was like no no don't

worry like I'm in just take yeah

just take it we're good and then then I

came to your I came

to your uh your event and

yeah I mean I think one of the

biggest things is I I am like I

live the growth mindset

right and you said something

that uh really like hit me right in

the face because it's true

like if you're an entrepreneur and

you're not doing content or

you're not doing social media

like what are you doing you're an

IDI like literally what are you

doing so I came to your boot camp

and I mean I took so I I knew

nothing right five six seven

years no social media I

used to be like oh it's a distraction

it's not a distraction it's a

connection it's a network it

was so ignorant so silly so I

come here uh bring my family and

you should have seen I learned

so much in one day but two

days I learned so much in two

days took so many notes

and then the key for me

then was hey I got to go put this into

practice so I started putting

into practice and you know it's paid off

I actually from the

program side things got so busy

I kind of fell off on the program

side but I got so much

value I just I'm good I

recommend it to everybody so yeah I

mean it's a kudos to you guys

because you hit so many

different things you've got so many

different programs and you

know the I believe that if you

want to learn something go and pay

somebody you say the

same thing but go and pay

somebody so you don't have to sell

me I pay 25 Grand all day I

would do it again in a

heartbeat I would pay 50 Grand just so

everybody knows I would pay

50 grand for what I l

earned I appreciate that dude if you're

watching this show my guess is

you're probably an entrepreneur

who's trying to grow your business

and for me the best

thing I ever did to grow my

business was build my personal

brand on social media it's

allowed me to get more

Revenue it's allowed me to raise more

capital and it's allowed me

to hire better talent and

if you are not currently creating

content for your brand you're

missing out and your

competition is so if you want to

learn to grow my advice is to create a

podcast now there's a lot

that goes into building a podcast

and why I believe it's the best

way so I've actually

created a free training that I want

you to go check out if you go to

PanAm media.com

podcast you can go access the free

training right now and see how a

podcast is going to be the

best decision to grow your personal

brand today so go check it

out by clicking the

link below and I'll see you in the training

yeah I think it it's funny because

some of like we we

do get guys who you know because like

you know like you said we have

a lot of programs right so

whatever somebody's trying to

specialize in we try to help them

um but we obviously aren't

developers right so it's interesting

cuz like one of my other

good friends who started in the

program om Saha he's been on the

show and um he's a

developer too and um you

know I remember before we became

great friends I was like so

why did you join like just

I'm genuinely curious and um you

know it was a similar thing he's

like you you know like I just

want to know what you know

even you know I can apply it to

Everything I Do whether it's hiring

whether it's getting deals

and thinking about things in

different ways and um

his main thing was for him he didn't

have another way of making

money Beyond development

and so he initially thought

maybe I'll start a you know

wholesaling or a house

flipping business and then I

remember we did a little Mastermind a

couple years ago and I was

like why are you going to go and try

and learn this like you're

you're so good already

at this there's ways to make money

today you know with your

construction and

Architectural and everything background

and I was like you're already

looking at all this land

deals what why you got to

take them all down yourself yeah you

know why not just start entitling

land and getting it done and flip

them you know like easy

money in that and I've met

a lot of people who do that yeah

it's good advice I I had a similar

thing I'm like hey do I want to create

other streams I'm like no just keep

the main thing to

main thing know what I want to

scale right and and that's the

development side I will say

one thing there's there's a lot

of hunger for like people who let's

say they're in real estate

they've maybe done the

wholesale they've done the flip and

they're looking for something

they're looking for

something else there is a lot of hunger

in there I was sort of testing it out

seeing like hey are do

people are people interested in

construction like what I call the

business side of building

right you think I move I have never

swung a hammer in my life

they I you know like all the

guys that call me the pencil Pusher

I love it I love it I'll be the

business Builder all day baby

I know the numbers I know how to entitle

I know how to

unlock land that's all I'm focused

on it's a blueprint right well

I'll hire the experts who know

how to do the excavation the concrete

the framing I just need to

know a little bit mainly

the numbers I mean that's

if you want to be a business person

mainly the numbers I know

the numbers nobody can

mess with me I know the numbers

better than I would say like I

can I will if you try to if

you try to get me I know I know the

number I know where you're

trying to like yeah the

G exactly I know the whole game I've been

through it and so that's the

only thing you had to

master and then B the business side of

building right the cont how to

do the contracts how

to put the deals together the permitting

the insurance all the stuff

that's important to and and

quite frankly no matter what if you look

at anything that's

where the money is any

the the person who owns the business

who is the business side of

building right that's where

the money is it's not there's not huge

money in being a

subcontractor you can do

well over time but if you really look

at and study where

throughout history where the

money's made it's not in doing the the

actual work it's putting

the work together so that's

what we do the business side of

building and it's it is a

template it is a blueprint it

is a step-by-step process right

so I wanted to see it like are

people hungry for learning

that and there are quite a bit of people

who are hungry for it um

you know so it's one of the

things I was thinking about and playing

around was like hey can

we build a personal brand

and then can we potentially are there

courses that will people

actually buy courses would they be

interested we tried to throw our first

event which was so

hard kudos to you guys that

you guys can do four a thousand people

you know how much if

anybody's ever tried to put

on an event it is insane we did 35

people we I mean granted I

came up with the idea and

two months later we through the event

but it is so much work

but it was just a test out

like do people want to learn about the

groundup game is what I call

it right buying land Building

from the groundup and there are there's

people out there

that are hungry that want to

know how to to do it and it is truly

a blueprint so yeah no I love

it so what what was your

conclusion after throwing the event

I mean obviously people

want to learn it yeah I would

I mean it was super fun I loveed that

it was so much work and I

was like what am I actually doing

this you could have made probably a

lot more money just

focused on the business you

got it brother so I was like it was so much

work I had nothing to

sell right and so to me I said

was it rewarding yeah one of the

passions I do have I really do

have a passion to to help

people and to educate I had a terrible

time in school like regular

school just didn't work for

me I dislexia just the system itself

wasn't good and so I because

of the dyslexia and the

regular school path I always told myself for

a long time I was like hey

I'm I had the story of like

oh I'm dumb forget school yeah so

you know that one of my

passions is to provide

people with true education stuff that

they can like feel touch see

and go and build whatever

they want to build right you could

if you want to build just one

or two homes a year you

could make1 to $200,000 a year

have a completely different

lifestyle right do whatever

you want like what the energy that

would take after learning the

process and taking some

risk is a completely different different

things so I do have a passion

for helping people or educating

people on what I've learned and it

actually helps me refine

what what do I actually

know like how smart like how how

have I mastered this or not and

when you go and try to

teach someone you're like I don't know

if I fully mastered this yet

there's a lot more to learn baby

yeah I don't know wait that's a

good question I'm G

have to get back to you

on that exactly exactly um so

but but I mean like somebody who's

listening to us they're like dude

Dirk like I I really want to learn or

you know I want to work

with you guys like where could

they do it like just hit you up on

where yeah they can hit me

up on on Instagram just you

know the the Dirk Vander I'm on

Instagram Facebook um those

are really the two big ones we've got a YouTube channel we took a little bit of a like a break I

was real all in I took a little break over

last month but then you'll see me

really com yeah start

ramping up I'll pick your brain a

little bit on some

ideas and whatnot but

that would be where

you can see us

pushing stuff out and then

maybe one day you know wealthy way

will'll launch a development

we might have to just do it you know

we uh well well number one

right I think anybody listening

to this they could learn a ton from

you so either way you

know hit you up and I think investors

and everyone too I mean every

everyone's looking for

a place to put their

Capital right now and you know

with the markets um predicted to be

very good going in 2024 with

low rates and everything I think

um you know you're going to

see a lot more Capital start

flowing into deals yeah yeah

we're we're England you know for

example A lot of people put a

halt on their projects from a

single family side and I was like

no like rev up baby cuz what

I think's going to happen and if you

the only place to look at

really is what is the Fed

releasing and they're releasing

they've done if you look at the last

two years and you read

their reports and you look at the

FED Dot Plot they've done what

they said they were going

to do so when I look at where

interest rates going to go and what

did drone pal just announce

we're going to have three Cuts

well guess what I've got product

that in in spring and summer

of 2024 comes online just when those

rates are being cut in

this plan could we have been

wrong sure and what would

have happened if we're wrong and

they raised it well we would

have just been pinched in our

margins a bit okay I just sold two

houses and rather than making

you know 80 or 100 Grand we

made 40 Grand okay

that's life it's life you move

forward move on but you know

it's it's fun to make that little bed

and and kind of go Zig when

other zag right I mean that's I think

that that's really important

if you want to be successful

and anything you got to turn your

back to the crowd yeah I've

always done that I've always

um just kind of went to my own

uh drum and you know like you

it's just about taking risk

and following your gut and at the

end of the day right knowing the

numbers and the risk associated

with it and so for you um it's like

you you started to do

these infill lots and everything

when others were like oh man

dude I don't know what's going

to happen and you know you

took a bet that hey 20 24 is going

to be better when all my

product comes out you know

out but even if it's not we'll still be

okay because we're still

under writing the deals properly

yeah yeah we're being conservative

you know one thing I

appreciate and when I watch

you guys and what you built one

I look up to what you built

but also I can see that it's

like tip of the iceberg right so

that's what attracts me in general

about being part of your

program all the things I'm like

this it's just tip of the iceberg for

these guys like they're

literally just revving up look

what they've done but they're just

revving up that's what I see

so yeah just my hats tip to you

on that no I appreciate it yeah

it's funny because when I

look at um what we've built to

your point you know just like

thinking of the events since we

were talking about how hard it is to

run events you know we just started

running events like two years ago like

at hotels you know I think

our first event at

a hotel was in 2022 and then

you know and from like 200 people

to 300 people to a few hundred you

know and it's like now

it is what it is and I think

this this next event will be our

biggest um we should probably

have like 1300 people I

would guess and then I actually

think we could do 2,000 on the next

one but I don't know

that I'm gonna have a venue big

enough I actually think I might get

constrained by the venue

yeah and it ain't easy to do

that's for sure like to to

run the operation to sell that many

tickets to create a great

experience to Market and

sell to get the speakers to fly

everyone in to know how you

want to like run a show just the

entire thing to make it a great

experience and there's a lot

that goes into it but like then I think

about it and I'm like huh we

kind of did what nobody's really

done in less than two years

and we still are just like figuring

it out like you said yeah

just wait I mean you guys hands

down you'll be selling out Arenas we

don't know how quick but

it all comp it all compound

itself right look at you always talk

about the first one you

went to was Grant Cardone

mhm you're going to You'll you will grow

into into doing this

similar thing in in your

own style your own

way but that amount that

amount of people yeah

it's it's inevitable look how

look how quickly it's already grown yeah

so what's what's your plan

for you yeah I think 2024 it's

you know we're focused on

operational efficiencies from

a general contracting business

I had to invest in actually

bringing people on you

I'm sure you remember what

that's like right so now you're bringing

on remember I still do it every

day yeah well you're yeah there's a

stage of when you're first

doing it right oh yeah yeah

right because that was the

fir that's a big big adjustment right

when you go from no employees

to five to seven right like dang this

different I mean and now

you're you're just going bom

B bom bom but to replace originally

to try to replace

myself I mean that was a

big investment right I mean I got

two Executives that I'm a

superintendent and a project

manager that I'm now paying high

salaries and that was a big

adjustment big investment

so we'll focus on operational

efficiencies don't really I don't

really feel feel like because

I'm I'm not trying to scale the

general contracting business so I

don't need to layer on

more stuff there I just need

to perfect the standard operating

procedures and get it to run

itself right 2024 operational

efficiencies standard operating

procedures hand this thing

off and have it run itself in the

next 6 to 12 months so that 10 to

20% of my time's there and

then the remainder of the time

is in putting development deals

in front of us so we'll put

development deals in front of

us that we self-perform on we I really

want to break into that assist

living because I think that

there's a ton of opportunity if

you look at what's going to the

wave that's coming I like the

cash flow behind it there's still

developing opportunity for

it so there's this perfect

storm in my opinion coming of we're

going to need more

Assisted Living it's great cash

flow so you'll see me

really drive into that

in 2024 and then uh

we've got a huge piece of property

that we're an annexing in right now

which is going to take a ton of

focus 65 acres coming into Bend

and that'll you know once we

once we're successful in that

that'll what do you mean you're

annexing in 65 acres yeah

so every town city area has an

existing city limit and then an

urban growth boundary

they're all required to have a

20-year comprehensive plan of like

hey based on our growth

our population growth and

the needs of our city we maybe it's

not like that in other states

but in Oregon they're all

required to have a a comp plan a

comprehensive plan and you

know based on that

comprehensive plan that's required by

the state each City will take their

Urban growth growth

boundary and they'll actually move

it out during the during

phases to meet the

demands of that comp plan

because more land has to be annexed into

the actual City so what

if you ever study like really smart

developers the number one

builder in the

Pacific Northwest builds

2,000 homes a year

I study I know all the land his

father was buying land outside

of the urban growth

brry 40 acres 50 acres you know for

what seemed like Farmland

seemed like land that would never

be brought in he is today

building on that land and

guess what he's doing cuz he's smart

man if you watch any 40 50

60 acre Parcels

that are being purchased right now

outside of the urban growth boundary

it's this guy he's still just

doing it he's doing it because he's

making the he knows that in 10 15

years when that gets

annexed in the value of that property

will be substantial so point being

in we have a 65 acre piece

that we're annexing in and it's

it'll be 650 apartment units over

the next 15 years it's 150

residential lots and then there's

a light industrial that'll that'll be

um moved as well

so it's on that one we're

really doing the land play

so I've got we're

negotiating with regional

Builder and DR Horton

right now to buy the Lots we've we've

actually got a great offer

from Dr Horton it's just hard to work

with with uh those big

National guys um and you'll

see us you'll see me really focus

on that because I think that

that could be a huge

Catalyst for our development

arm in Oregon over the in 2025 um so

yeah so with that

like how do you know what is

like well I guess it's annexed in

so it's like in

another city right now like

where is it it's in the it's in the

county so it's okay yeah so it's like

the urban growth boundary

let's say you draw you know the

city of Bend Oregon where it's

at they have a boundary and

then when they do that comp

planning they say hey we're

going to expand this way

and it goes from dutes County

which is our local County then

into the city got it so it

goes out of County into

City so because nothing no one lives there

or anything right now

it's just like there's a no

there's a house on it but

it's on 65 acres so

it's those rural areas

that you know if you have like

if you have cash and you wanted to do a

land play like those guys

are doing buying those

rural areas if you can

sit on it for 10 to 15

years so like you're

buying it for how much

14 A5 million and then

what's it worth once it's

an next in yeah um well

let's put it this way for the

residential lot which is 25 acres we have

an offer for just under 24 million

now you have to put infrastructure

in and there you go

that's the game just like we

talked about right they're not

making more land and there's a

lot of value creation just

like you told your friend why

don't you just entitle in and flip it

there's a lot of value

Creation in entitlements yeah

so do you see that as something you're

going to do with all this

other stuff because I mean like to

me that seems the easiest way to

like make some quick cash

yeah see you you hit it spot on

right it's like where's all the time

and where can it all go so

get the construction yep get

it running itself and then focus on

more of that I mean

that deal that's where if you look

at like if I were to ask myself where

do I make the most per

hour it's it's doing those deals yeah

100% through and through well

the cool thing about like

those deals too and I don't know

how this deal came about or

anything but like okay you

get this deal you lock it up so

anyone can you could own the

deal 100% for now yeah

right but the moment you know

you you got to go raise 20 million

bucks well then you

know you're going to bring investors

in and however however that get

split it gets split but for the

paper you know you just got the

paper and then you know if you

get a long due diligence

and you going through this process

of titling and finding the Dr

Hortons and the biders

and the buyers and you know

all of a sudden you got offers for 25

million it's like well dude

at that point you can just sell the

paper and you don't really need

to uh have anyone else

involved and it's just pure cash

to you yeah it's definitely that

project's definitely kind of

like pinch even the 84 unit I'm

like pinching myself I'm like is this

real on that project guess

how much we put down how

much 20 we put $25,000 down on

a $44.5 million purchase

price that's it and then the

rest of it the negotiations on that right

like the it's all about

how do you how do we frame

and how do we talk to people right one

they have to believe in

you so very blessed Extremely

Blessed because people see the

resort they see Teo they

see what's been done yeah I have

that name credibility yeah 100%

if I was just a Joe it

doesn't work that way so I I

do not like I know that

very clearly and I'm

so grateful and blessed

for that but then how do you use

that to your advantage and how

do you properly structure a

win-win deal I mean we didn't want

to have a bunch of money

sitting there and Earnest

so it's it's just conversations with

sellers right hey we're going to go

spend all this money to improve

your property worst case we pull

out you here's a clause

you have the rights to all the

work you're going to be able to

we're going to add a ton of value

to your property if we

decide not to close which by

the way after do diligence we've never

not closed on a deal

then you get the rights but

we don't want to have this all this

money just sitting in escrow

not working for anyone right and

most sellers if they they think

about that they would agree

with that so that's how we

were able to have those

conversations have those sit

Downs create a win-win situation

and then you know get that

deal teed up so yeah kind of crazy

but and so what do you think

ends up happening on that

deal yeah it's it's been interesting

if you look at like how long and

how long you been

working on it yeah we've been

working on it for six months six

yeah 6 to 8 months um the

city has to bring sewer in so

nothing nothing nothing really

happens until from a

construction side until spring or

summer of 2025 we've got the

way the contract set up

we've got a at annexation we

have got a capital commitment

so we're working through

making sure we we can really

have it all be finessed and

part of that part of that is is

deciding we've got this offer from Dr

Horton but when you look

at their contracts or you

study those big like I mean they're a

public company right so if you

look at those contracts

and you study what's

happened in the past with guys

like that part of their job is get as

much get as much work

ahead of us for our reporting as

possible right so they might give

you a great offer but how

real is it you have to we have

to really feel that out we've been

doing a lot of communicating

and conversations about that

or do we go with the small

Regional Builder smaller

Regional Builder who we trust that

we can work with so we're trying

to work that out and by

March of 2024 we're trying to

have an actual contract in place have

it set up to know who's

going to buy the residential and

then we'll let the rest of it unfold

yeah so would your goal

be to obviously you'll you'd make a

profit on the residential and

then You' keep the rest and

develop it you got it yeah I mean

not actually we've also had a

couple people say hey we

want the we want some multif

family sites so we would sell like

anything right we'll sell anything

but the goal whatever whatever

like is the best thing like

okay you want those for all

right cool all right you're going to give

me this okay cool you know

what I'll sell it all or okay

now I only have um 10% of it left

and that's where I'll

do my own development

exactly so if we can go low risk

and just flip the paper we'll do that

all day yeah but most likely

what'll end up happening is

we'll sell the residential we'll we'll

start developing a little

bit of the commercial and

then we'll sell it all off as that area of

town just continues to

Boom so so is your focus just

on Bend since that's what you know

best or you looking for

opportunities everywhere

what's the deal yeah so I've had a lot of

success in like those

secondary markets too so B

like if it's like a 30 to

50 mile radius and

my dream and what I'm working

on right now is breaking out

into other states so I've got a

project we're doing due

diligence on right now in Idaho

um we'll it's a 64 unit project we'll

test it out with eight units

to prove it these are first sale

town homes we'll test it out to

prove it and then we'll we're

working on on a contract right

now for first R refusal on the

remainder of them but I

got to prove it out right I got to

make sure that it's kind of those

baby steps I want to be in

multiple markets so I got to make

sure I can get it we're not going

to general contract it but

I'm I'm working on getting that

teed up you'll probably see us in

Spring of 2024 break into

Idaho and then we're doing due

diligence on a piece and Bosman

right now as well so

you're going into Montana Idaho

you're in Oregon it's interesting

because I thought about

what markets interest me for

a potential Golf Course development

and um those are a lot of

the markets I've been

thinking about because

they're very um just Scenic you

know the scenery is amazing yeah

but one thing I don't like is

obviously it's not Year Round Golf

so I don't like that so my question

is like what are some

of the challenges you face

in those markets at least building

you know is it tough to build

since you know you get snow

and all this stuff or what we'll

build right through it there's

ways to build right through

the snow ground th machines Etc

it slows timelines down but it's

not too big of a deal on

the on your golf course side I

do agree right it's not Year Round

Golf so what you really have

to focus in on is that membership

those memberships are

year round so that keeps

you going and and rocking but

I think for you to one because

you're passionate about it

too because of your brand I like

I love that idea for you I think that

you'll you'll really be

able to create something

that that people are going to want to

buy into so that's you know

and and I think that um it's

definitely it's definitely not an easy

game to development

there's a ton of risk and a ton

of capital that it takes but it's super

rewarding and like you

said on the back end you

can create a massive amount of wealth so

yeah I look at um you know

because I just been to a lot of

golf courses and I'm like man

we're in the US it's like a

good yearr round location but

also has scenery and stuff and it's

like you look at California

and everything and you know

California is is beautiful but you

know it's California so

getting anything approved

there is like gonna be a nightmare yeah

um and so I look at

like I love Latin America and

Mexico and everything and it's just year

round just awesome but

you know it's not America so I've

been really kind of like conflicted

on where in America

to go because I love the scenery

of the Northwest and then you know

you start to look at the

coast of Oregon and California

and those are great but you know

they all have their pros

and cons of like mainly weather

or politics in California and Oregon

and Oregon yep um

and then I'm like everyone's

like go to Texas and I'm like where's the

scenery in Texas and stuff

like those places you know um

what's your favorite course

you've ever been to uh

this course in the Dominican called

P Grande it's like 13 holes like

literally off a cliff yeah it's like

Pebble Beach yeah but but better

yeah oh yeah so that's kind

of like my mind is like I'm

thinking I'm a weather guy I like

just year round tropical stuff I

don't like the cold yeah you

don't want you don't want then

you don't want to I mean then

you know you're definitely in

Idaho Oregon and Washington

you're going to have the cold

right California you

won't but you got the red tape

the only thing about that red tape and

that challenge is like it's hard

to get it approved but because it's

hard to get it approved if if

you get there and you once

you get it approved that actually

is kind of like I I kind of in one

way like that because it

will take a lot of work be really hard

to do but a lot of people are

going to Veer away from

it so there might be a little bit of a

of a opportunity you work

through that headache

and all of a sudden other people

who don't want it you've put

yourself at an advantage

so yeah but I mean again there

is the tax the taxes are a big issue

people who live there just

they love it but they get hit hard

so mhm well I think in most of

these though like people

aren't living there full-time so

they don't have to deal you know

with the income tax

what about Arizona I mean

it's a desert yeah you want you want

scenery that's the yeah

yeah I know Arizona's got like cool

places like Flagstaff and stuff

those are those are cool

what Sedona or something yeah

didn't the real estate guys they

didn't they went to

like where did they go you know

the real estate radio show didn't those

guys go and develop

like a I have no idea they went

they went to Biz they went to Biz and

they developed like a

bunch of commities

I don't think a golf course

but it would be

interesting to get connected

with them and talk to them about

you know what it was like

because they're in the

US what it was like they Ed their

platform to get a lot of people to

come over to B to buy

into Bel to invest in Bel be

interesting to see what that was like

because one of the

things when you talk about beautiful

scenery like you said Dominican

Republic Costa Rica those

places are stunning and maybe

maybe that is a place to to

really think about and

study and say hey I think some

of my group can come and and

invest there right that

the radio the real estate radio

guys they did that they really did that

and then they they

would have big events in bise and

people would come and invest in

their communities they were

building so something to study

maybe or think about because

yeah well we um so I'm buying

in Costa Rica right now so like

beautiful beautiful place and

um you know I go to Mexico

all the time so I definitely like

International but I don't know

there's just like this thing in

my mind that's like well dude

you never done this before so you

should probably like

do it in the lowest risk way

possible which you know stay State side

yeah but then again

you know screw it you know

like just just do it and you know I had um

what's it called I had

uh Jerome Dr Maldonado on

and so we were talking about

development and one

thing we were talking about

was the politics of getting things

approved and so you

know with you trying to anex into

a Bend I'm sure there's just like all

this politic crap you got

to deal with but I'm like yeah

I guess in Latin America it'd be way

easy to get something

approved you know just freaking

pay the right guy and it's done

yeah see now you're

thinking right I'm telling you talk

to those guys talk to those talk to

those guy talk to the

real estate guys I can't remember

their name but they did it so they'll

be able to tell you all the

paino you could L fast track your

learning from all the pain points

that they had and

uh yeah the good thing though

even though it's hard and it's red taped

Etc like the good thing about

the us just like you said is

there's zoning and development

code and the city if you

follow zoning and development

code they cannot stop you that's

just that is just what it

is so they can they can drag it

out they can be annoying they can

do all that but as long as

you follow the code and you're

not trying to up zone or trying to

rezone or trying to get a

conditional use approval if

you can just take a piece of property

and based on the zoning do

what's within their playbook

they can't block you so I like that

yeah do you think you'll

uh build a golf course or

anything right now I'm focused on getting

as much cash as I possibly

can and then I think I'll move into

wanting to do Legacy things

on the you know on the

on the backside right now I'm

like hey analyzing hey what's my

quickest path towards

good cash right that's why

you see me that's why you'll see me

move into that

Assisted Living because I I really

believe there's a lot

of opportunity that'll

present itself there and

then yeah I mean being able to would

it would it be a dream come

true to develop a resort

yeah it's one of my things I've written

down as a goal I just think it'll

be um 10 to 15 years from

now yeah yeah well you know

what's interesting is and I'm glad you

brought this up because

I tell people this all the time so

many people want to build

long-term wealth which

is great everybody should but

they want to do it first they're like hey

I got to buy

Ryals now and start accumulating

hey I got to you know get the Legacy thing

done now and

it's like no dude make some

quick cash now because that's going to be

you know number one

you got to live so figure out what's

going to pay you today number

two you're always going

to need to make money so like

even if you have this Legacy asset

and stuff odds are

is probably not even making you

that much you know you can like you

said you're you're

you're you you

just built an amazing 84 unit building people would be like

dude done yeah you

know it's like well no okay

you're still not even making that much

money right now you

have to still figure out how to

make some quick cash today doing

something and that's

why like I'm always been a big

advocate of flipping and wholesaling

because I'm like look

something's got to make the money

today that you can just always

count on not you know a

thing that could pay you five years

from now yeah like what can you

do today and that's

like even when I talk to developers

I'm like guys you got so many

skills you don't have to build

every property you get you

know what if you could be working

on 10 of these entitlements

at once y you're not going to

take all 10 of them down take the

best one you want and

then go flip the rest of them

and make that money yeah it's it's

good advice and I agree

right we we always have to have

multiple buckets cuz when one's

going if one's going bad

which inev it will you got to rely

on the other one so it's a how do

you plan to scale out

okay here's the problem I

found though with development and I

thought I thought about

man how do you like fix this

problem so like with flips and

Wholesales it's very simple

like as far as training staff and

teaching them but like you know

the process of going

through an entitlement and you

know the skill that it takes and I don't

know in my mind I'm

like it's very to me it seems

much harder to find the talent to be able

to do that yeah the

good part about that is as the

developer you're just bringing the the

pieces of the puzzle

together right so Mountain Home

the civil engineers and The Architects

that we're using for

the Mountain Home Project in Idaho

different group than what we use

in Oregon right so

it's the way you scale it is we

don't have to from a if

you look at like and I

don't know about

your friend but if you look

at the development side

what I like about scaling

that is those are third party

right I don't have to have the civil

engineers in house I

don't have to have the architects

in house I don't have to have the

general contractors in house

I have to have the understanding

of how to unlock a piece of

land I have to have the

right Prof foras understand the

market and then I can bring all these

third parties in to do

all the work right they do all

the work they get the entitlements done

you oversee the plan of

it but they do all the entitlements

they do all the paperwork they

do all yeah I guess where

I'm I'm thinking about is just the

acquisition side like how do you

create such a robust

acquisition team who can

handle identifying lands negotiating

entitling yeah that's a

that's because it's like so creative

yeah you're you're 100% correct on

that it that's that's

the thing that me myself I'm

working on the best way I've been able to

do it so far as just

through relationship building

right so who's the who

I want to go into this

Market well who's

one of the names around here

who who are the big real estate

brokers around here

who are selling land right and

how do I build a trusting relationship

with them so they

know that we're serious because

they don't want to waste their time

right they're only paid on

commission so I would say

that's the through the real estate

brokers letting them do a

lot of your acquisition work for

you but I I agree with you that's a

hard thing to that's a

hard thing to to work on

scaling it's it just takes time building

relationships do take time

so you know it's it's a really good

point and yeah because like

you know every landal I've

done freaking crushed it yeah

but I can't I can't teach it and

replicate what I did yeah

yeah because it was unique it was yeah

exactly you had you knew

it you had to take the

pieces of the puzz yeah and I enjoy

it too because it's it's a creative

thing a house Li's not

creative it's like okay that's the

house all right just freaking let's go

just fix it and let's you know

it's not I mean there there's some

Nuance to it but land is truly

yeah dude this could

be worth nothing it could be worth

millions depending on the idea

could we could you for

example if you get really good at your

buy box could you have a

good strong buy box and

then have acquisition manager have

have sales guys or you know

have have people who

understand that buy box go and

properly like properly network with

the areas you're targeting

because it's all in the real estate

brokers right that's it's all in it's

all in the real estate

brokers 84 unit deal and 65 acre deal

same broker yeah right so could

you get a really good

buy box use your marketing your your

ability for sales Etc and go and

build those relationships in

the areas that are being targeted that

would be one way I

would see scale being able to

occur but you'd have to be like anything

right super clear on

what your buy box is

beardy Brandon did it right he

said like I'm this is my exact buy box

I'm going to be this I'm

going to be you know and then

he was able to w wave across the

entire United States and

pick up I don't know what he's done

now just he just exploded the

thing so yeah we um well

like for me my buy box has been

for my own personal residences

so I haven't been like looking

um you know for like oh this would

be a great you know multif

family thing because

it's not that's not what I'm

looking for and I think

this is important for

people to know is that

it's it's good when you are looking for a

specific thing so I like that

you're like look hyperfocused

on this right now I'm going to just

focus on you know my city

and the areas around me

and I'm going to look for things I

can develop assisted living and

you know multif family

on you know for me like my first

land deal was buying um you know

a mountain that I

wanted to build my dream home

on and so like I knew it was so

undervalued because guess

what I spent hours and hours

and hours looking around the city

for what I would want

and it occurred to me how

undervalued this particularly was

compared to comps right

next door selling for you know five

times the price and so you

know I end up getting this

deal for 600 Grand and right now it's

listed for 5.5 and so it's just

like you know like

and that was only a few years ago

yeah and same thing with this Costa

Rica property like I was

like all right I'm looking for a second

home I'm GNA start just looking

at land and like

different countries now I'm not even

looking like in Costa Rica

specifically I'm

looking at hey as a

rich person where would I want to

go like live as a second home

there's lots of options

that rich people live in as

far as International

and so I started looking

at like Cabo that was my

first look I'm like Cabo I love Cabo it's

freaking like two hours away

flight from Vegas it's great and

then I saw how expensive it was

I was like dude this is

literally the same price

as California this is supposed

to be Mexico I thought it's cheap

yeah and it's not Cabo

is the same as California just you

don't you can't get alone yeah

exactly or attack right off

it's even worse yeah it's worse and

I was like man okay Cabo ain't

it so I start looking around

and like I just started doing my own

research and that led me to

the Dominican because

I was in the Dominican um couple

years ago and I remember

looking at the real estate

and I was like dude this only like a

couple million bucks for like this

massive Manion like

on the beach I was like that's

crazy cuz this weather's great

everything's sick for

2 million bucks yeah I'll do that

that same Cabo house is 20 million

bucks exactly so it

opened my mind and so I went to the

Dominican just kind of like

observed and checked

it out and I understood kind of

like just from having it focus on it

what it was and I was

ready to commit there and then I just

thought about it and I was like

man the only thing

I don't like about the Dominican

me personally is the travel how long it

takes yeah because you

know I gotta go to Miami which I

already hate going to Florida

because it's so far from

me it's like that's five hours then the

Dominican another like couple

hours from there so there's

always a layover and then like this

particular Community from

that airport was another a

couple hours I'm like dude the commute

is like brutal just to get

there so then my friend

tells me about Costa Rica and

I'm like okay you know Costa Rica's

much closer you know

the commutes way easier what is it um

I I think it was like 7 hours

with us going to

Houston or uh to like Texas and then

Texas Direct there and if there is a

direct it'll be way

I don't even know it might

end up being like four hours or something

right so maybe one day

there'll be a Vegas direct which would be

great or I'll just have a jet

so that'd be great too

so but Costa Rica you know I went

there and I'm like okay the

weather's great the time

Zone's great it's quick you know I'm

I'm just going around the I no

it's it's not an island

sorry I'm Dominican

um I'm going around

uh you know just the the

country and I'm like dude this is actually

like super tropical and

it's cool and you know by

the time I just looked at the prices and

everything I was like all right

this is a deal I know like

there's other basically I think

from my own perspective I'm like

I know there's other people

like me who like these kinds of

communities like golf are

looking for this exact product and I

know they're going to look at

the same things look at

because that's just how it is and I'm like

they're going to see that

this is way undervalued for

what you get for the price

compared to other

countries Y and um yeah I mean like even

right now that that land it's

locked up you know

I've got you know multiple six figures in

EMD on it you know it's very

different but I I know I

could flip it now for over seven figures

of of profit and it's like I mean

I I still might you know

like exactly whatever whatever you

decide yeah yeah yeah but that's

the point and I just kind

of looked at it and I'm like but there's

no way I could have ever like

made that a business because

I know what the guy like me ex

wants who's going to buy

this yeah that's hard to scale

I agree with you through and through

but one thing I think we

just found out is Costa Rica's

got to be on the list of at least

places you're looking to

develop your course man

cuz oh bro Costa Rica is legit

I like Costa Rica a lot um I like

Mexico a lot too I just

think not Cabo Cabo is like

already I like I love

Cabo but it's like it's

not undervalued anymore

yeah exactly people it's done

20 years ago maybe it's a different

story for sure well bro um it's

exciting what you're doing um

super grateful for the kind

words I'm excited we're going

to go golf tomorrow so I'm excited

for that um and it's going

to be just cool to see what

you do these coming years with

development and finding these

deals and I think my

biggest advice to you would be figure

out how to scale what I just told

you I couldn't figure out how

to scale because I think your buy

box is very different than

you know the guy looking for a

second home buy box I think if you can

just replicate you on

finding these you know these

land deals for annexing or for

assisted living dude you'll

freaking crush it it's good

advice I'm I'll take it up and yeah

we'll see where it goes yeah but

guys if you want to connect

with dark we'll link to his Instagram

down below maybe you

want to invest with him maybe

you want to partner with him maybe

you want to learn from

him great dude who's willing to

help so go check him out and we

will catch you on the next

episode Peace good job

dude that was good yeah thanks

man you built a crazy thing dude

good job dude I'm trying man where'

the name come from with MTI

size yeah we I was on a

run and I was like hey what

does MTI size do for me or what does

running do for me and I

was like oh it momentz me

and it's sort just some fake word

yeah fake word I made it up

that's funny it mizes that's

what we did so is this Cuts yeah yeah

yeah you just made a Cuts

one I told you dude it look

up to you man so it's just get the cuts

get the yeah that's right

the cuts does it the best

yeah they do yeah you got the but

I don't have no tats yeah that's

hard tats you don't need

you don't need the tats I need to

get tatted up Dude Sweet that

that was good man thank

you once you do one home you

know you never wanted do one

again because it's a waste

of time you want to do a minimum

of two at a time you got to

build a business model that's

Recession Proof people try to

push deals and they try to

convince themselves that

it's a good deal even if it's not the

shortest cycle in real estate

would be wholesale