-
Right! Hello, everyone!
-
The clock is running.
-
Thank you to Wikidata
for the opportunity to speak here today.
-
I will be talking about reinstating
female artists to the cultural record.
-
First off, what am I doing here?
-
I work for an organization called digiS,
-
which is the Forschungs-und
Kompetenzzentrum Digitalisierung Berlin
-
We are a state-funded body.
-
We're based in
the Zuse Institute in Berlin.
-
which is part of the high-performance
computing network in Germany.
-
We are involved with GLAMs,
with cultural institutions in Berlin,
-
helping them get
their analog treasures online,
-
digitized online,
making high-quality metadata.
-
And one of our major focuses
is also long-term digital preservation.
-
So, we assist them with all of that,
-
And as I said, it's state-funded,
-
and with a focus on Berlin,
-
so we work with Berlin institutions.
-
Our standard operating procedure
-
is that we take the metadata
-
that the cultural institutions
have produced
-
and that is ingested into
the Deutsche Digitale Bibliothek.
-
That's our main focus.
-
And then on into Europeana
if the metadata is appropriately licensed.
-
Not all the institutions
put out their metadata with CC0.
-
But that's our standard route.
-
But we're always looking
at new ways to present data,
-
because a lot of the museums
and cultural institutions we work with,
-
archives as well,
-
sometimes focus a bit too much
on putting the data on a website.
-
You've got to realize
that we're dealing with institutions,
-
sometimes very small institutions
in Berlin,
-
where there's just one
or two people working.
-
They're really happy
if they've just got a website.
-
If we start coming to them and saying,
"Hey! Start producing your metadata
-
on LIDO or Metsmart or whatever,"
they tend to have a bit of a crisis,
-
but that's why we've got
this funding program
-
to try and help them through it,
-
because we also would like
the data that they produce
-
to be usable for machines,
-
to really leverage the power
of the semantic web and link data.
-
Which is why we became interested
in looking at Wikidata,
-
because some of our partners
were actually using Wikidata already,
-
pretty much as a resource.
-
They weren't inputting any data,
but to make their whole...
-
collection management easier,
they would then collect to Wikidata
-
to save them the trouble
of inputting everything
-
and that's how we ended up
with the Berliner Malweiber,
-
as they are called.
-
So, Malweiber is a pejorative term.
-
It just means "Painting Women,"
-
and it was used to refer to women artists
who were not taken seriously
-
by the male-dominated academe
at the turn of the last century.
-
These were women who were painting,
-
but they weren't allowed
to study at any universities
-
or any higher education institutions.
-
They were allowed to maybe
go to painting schools,
-
but they were producing a lot of work.
-
Some of the artists
that we've got in the database
-
are early 1850's as well, but most of it
was around the turn of the century
-
So, this is Anna Bernhardi's
self-portrait
-
from 1891, I think.
-
In Berlin, the first time
women were admitted
-
to the Schule der Kunst was 1919.
-
So, it took a while
before they got any recognition
-
for the work that they were doing.
-
So, the Stadtmuseum in Berlin, in 2016,
had a temporary exhibition
-
called "Berlin -- Stadt der Frauen,"
-
where they tried to readdress
this imbalance a bit
-
and to showcase
a lot of the work that they have--
-
the Stadtmuseum has their artworks--
-
and to actually put on
an exhibition for them.
-
Of the 20 women who remained
the focus of the exhibition,
-
most of them are already quite famous,
-
but there were still quite a few
artworks in the museum
-
that are from lesser-known artists.
-
And that's why, as part of this program--
-
this is the website from digiS--
-
there was a program in 2016
or a project by the Stadtmuseum
-
to then digitize a further 215
of their paintings
-
and produce metadata to that.
-
So, that was the basis of our work.
-
So, standard operating procedure:
-
we announced the ingest
on the Wikidata Import website.
-
It was actually the old site.
They've changed the way now.
-
And happily...
-
...cleaned up the data
as much as they could in OpenRefine
-
because I was dealing with a dataset
that had been edited
-
by about three different employees
of the museum.
-
So, you notice immediately
how great it would be
-
if people would use controlled
vocabularies and stuff like that
-
because for materials and techniques
there were very often different words used
-
to describe exactly the same concept.
-
I did a whole lot of cleaning up,
-
checked for which artists
were already existing in Wikidata,
-
which had to be added new.
-
All of this was uploaded,
and then tragedy struck,
-
because for a lot of these artists
I had no external references.
-
I do not have any reference in the GND,
the German Authority Control.
-
And so, the only place I could enter
their data was in Wikidata.
-
They didn't exist anywhere else.
-
And Wikidata admin, quite rightly,
deleted 23 of the artists
-
that I had added, by saying,
-
"No source, no sitelink, no backlink,
no data to understand who they are."
-
I waited a while, then I canceled.
-
So, I engaged in a discussion
with this admin
-
and he or she very kindly restored
the items that had been deleted,
-
which gave me the opportunity to say,
-
"From my point of view,
I did a bit of calculating back then,
-
I may be wrong; this is a year ago now.
-
There were 15 million items.
-
Of those, a million had been deleted.
-
That's about 2% of Wikidata."
-
[Arguing], I realized today
that in the earlier session
-
we'd say that Wikidata
was having a resource problem. Good.
-
We need bigger machines.
-
But it would be interesting to say,
-
maybe the notability criteria
should be made even more inclusive
-
if it's clearly spam or vandalism--
yes, that's not an issue--
-
but there may be some items
that are a little bit on the borderline
-
and maybe Wikidata would be
an interesting place to store that data,
-
or Wikibase, if we're going to see
some other options
-
of what we can do with it.
-
So, a suggestion would be to set up
some sort of arbitration process,
-
because what annoyed me a little bit
about having my items deleted
-
was the fact that I wasn't really
given a chance to argue my case
-
in any way, shape, or form.
-
and it would have been nice if someone
gave me the opportunity just to say,
-
"Hang on! This is actually real data,"
and explain the situation.
-
On Wikipedia, we have pages very often
with a banner on the top:
-
"This page has some issues."
-
Maybe we could think
of something similar for Wikidata,
-
but I do not know
how realistic that suggestion is.
-
It was just something I thought
that might make people be more open
-
to putting their work into Wikidata
and not be too terrified
-
that their work is going to be
somehow deleted at some point.
-
I'll just remind you
what the Wikidata criteria are.
-
Let me scroll.
-
This is not my computer,
and I am left-handed,
-
so I'm struggling here a bit.
-
I might just...
-
...use my left hand!
-
Let me scroll. Yes!
-
Ah! Of course! Windows.
-
There we go!
-
So, if it refers to an instance
of a clearly identifiable concept
-
or material entity,
the entity must be notable in the sense
-
that it can be described using serious
and publicly available references.
-
So, this was part of our battle
-
in how can we get
a reference for an artist
-
who was excluded by design
from any formal record.
-
It's quite a complicated situation.
-
Now, how do I get out of that page?
-
Going back to the left hand.
-
Finding the mouse. Hello, mouse?
Anyone seen a mouse?
-
(chuckles)
-
Ah! There we go!
-
Let's go back.
-
So, at this stage, there are
still 19 artists without a GND,
-
so this is the German Authority Control.
-
So, these are all German artists,
or Berlin artists as well.
-
So, one would hope
that they would qualify for a GND ID,
-
but at this stage they do not have one.
-
I have artists, for example,
like Ida Maurer-Hahn...
-
(humming)
-
There we go!
-
...where I can really only just say
this much about her.
-
I know she's human, I know she's female,
and I know she's a painter.
-
That's all I know.
I'm not the domain expert.
-
This is data I got from the museum.
-
The museum is busy setting up
all sorts of other things,
-
so it's a little bit
of a battle for them too
-
to allocate resources to this,
-
and we're stuck in the middle of digiS,
-
trying to make sure that good quality
metadata is being created,
-
and doing our best
to ensure that it's done.
-
There we go!
-
And this is, for example, in some cases,
-
even though I may not have
the metadata or an external reference,
-
I have a painting,
-
and I can at least link to that painting.
-
And for some of the paintings
that are online at Stadtmuseum--
-
but I won't-- well, maybe
we can explain this here.
-
This is what the metadata looks like
for one of the paintings, instance of.
-
I have all the data that the museum
has about this artwork;
-
however, I have no online link
to any of this stuff.
-
I can't reference it
-
because it's in their collection
management system.
-
It's not available online yet,
so how am I going to do this?
-
There is hope. Do not despair!
-
The German Authority Control
is run by the German National Library,
-
the Deutsche Nationalbibliothek,
-
and they have a project running
called GND4C,
-
which is the GND for culture data.
-
And, in fact, I presented
on this topic a few days ago
-
at the annual meeting
of the expert group on documentation
-
of the Museums Federation of Germany,
-
and there were people
in the audience from the GND4C
-
who have now said they will help me get
at least these 19 artists who have no GND
-
to at least get their IDs,
so that we can start the process of--
-
as it has been said
in another presentation today,
-
the moment this data is online in Wikidata
and someone does a query
-
and says, "Hey, here's an artist,
but there's not much data about them.
-
Maybe there's a story to tell here,
and maybe we'd be interested
-
in doing some research
and to expand that."
-
That's been the amazing effect
of uploading a lot of this data
-
when there has been IDs
or there has been the ability to leverage
-
all the link data power,
-
that all of a sudden,
so much more information
-
has been collected about these artists
who in the past had really been ignored.
-
What are the lessons
we can learn from all of this?
-
How can we improve on past performance?
-
I think it's difficult to find
the right name to describe this.
-
There is such a thing
as the Chief Data Officer.
-
It's very much a commercial
and business enterprise sort of thing,
-
but what we noticed is that
in the cultural and heritage institutions
-
which have a personnel
and resource problem anyway,
-
we would like to have
a Chief Data Officer,
-
at least someone who is responsible there
for making sure that the metadata
-
is of a high standard
and that it's not just--
-
There's a role in Germany
called the data redakteur,
-
I don't know what the English
translation is. I could not find it.
-
But someone who is mainly responsible
-
to make sure that there are
no spelling mistakes in the data
-
or that it's of a relatively good quality.
-
But we actually need a bit more.
-
And a rose by any name
would smell as sweet,
-
so I don't really care what we call it.
I care more about what they do.
-
And what they need to do
is to make strategic decisions
-
regarding this data usage.
-
Someone actually in the institution
needs to sit down and say,
-
"It's important that
we get online because..."
-
I unfortunately missed
the presentation by The Met today
-
to see what they've done with their data
once they've uploaded it into Wikidata.
-
But if we can explain
to the institutions why it's important,
-
and they can see the reason for this,
-
then maybe they will be able
to make funds available
-
or resources available
to have someone to take this task
-
of actually realizing a museum
or a cultural heritage institution
-
is really a data provider.
-
They need the architecture
to provide data.
-
They need to know
who wants to use the data.
-
Is it digital humanist researches?
Is it just the general public?
-
They could have one central system
-
that can maybe feed into their website
and also have an API.
-
And one of the issues with the DDB
is they have an API,
-
so the metadata that we uploaded
into the DDB can be queried by an API.
-
However, you need an API key
before you do that.
-
That makes Wikidata attractive again
-
because I can just go to
any Wikidata SPARQL endpoint
-
and basically do my query.
-
And we need to ensure high-quality data.
-
That’s the beginning
of this whole process.
-
Just for the 250 artworks that I uploaded,
the data took so much work
-
to try and massage it into a useful form
that could be really great,
-
to ensure data quality
and that would be the basic things,
-
the uniform measurement system
and controlled vocabularies
-
as much as possible.
-
And all of this compliant
with relevant metadata standards.
-
We always bang the drum for standards,
because the moment you use standards,
-
you increase the ability
to connect your data
-
to other forms of data out there.
-
And then to avoid some of the issues,
-
because I can understand
that Wikidata also says,
-
"Look, we're not your data repository.
-
You can't just come here
and dump your data."
-
And the institutions, on the other hand,
say, "Look, this is our curated data.
-
This is stuff we spent years researching
-
and spent many employee hours working on.
-
We don't just want
to upload that to Wikidata
-
and have it overwritten
or deleted at some point."
-
So, I really like the idea of Wikibase.
-
The idea that an institution could run
its own Wikidata instance,
-
where we really need to have a look
and see if we can assist...
-
Where's the pointy bit?
-
...is in this bit here.
-
So, if you have an institution
-
that has its own collection
management system,
-
we need to find a way, write scripts,
and support it as much as possible,
-
to as automatically as possible get data
into their local Wikibase instance
-
or an instance run
by another government institution,
-
perhaps like digiS-- but I can't
make that prediction at this stage--
-
that could then be used by Wikidata
in terms of a synchronized
-
or a federated query.
-
And all of these things can, of course,
then use authority controls and so on.
-
But if the institutions can be encouraged
to set up their own Wikibases.
-
10-15 years ago, very few museums
had their own websites.
-
I would hope that in five years
-
more institutions
would have their own Wikibase
-
or be prepared to use a Wikibase.
-
And, of course, it gets interesting
-
when the moment you input it
into a system like that,
-
issues with the data will arise
-
that you can hopefully feed back
into the collection management system
-
to improve their data in general.
-
So, in other words, something
like a DIY Authority Control
-
for the institution
or even just a controlled vocabulary.
-
If they just had a resource
within their institution
-
where they could say,
"We're going to choose this term,
-
we're not going to go through
a long standardization process.
-
Even if five years down the track
-
they decide it's the wrong term
and they want to change the term,
-
at least I have a clear idea
what I'm talking about."
-
It’s a start.
-
But I have to say
that this suggestion that I made
-
was also met with quite
a lot of skepticism at this conference,
-
because I think the people in the audience
have also had bad experiences
-
trying to set up these systems.
-
And there's the saying:
-
"To err is human, but to really screw up,
you need a computer."
-
So I can imagine if you've got people
-
trying to set up their own Wikibases,
their own control vocabularies,
-
a lot of things are going to go wrong,
but it's a learning experience.
-
And we hope that something good
will come out of it in the end.
-
This is something that was referenced
-
in the Wikibase inspirational
presentation this morning.
-
The GND is now cooperating with Wikimedia
-
to actually see how Wikibase
can be used for it,
-
because it's part of the whole GND4C,
opening the very strictly controlled
-
for libraries resource
of the Authority Control to now say,
-
"Hey, other GLAMS, when you use galleries,
libraries, archives, and museums,
-
also want to use this resource"
-
GND4C is trying to see
how they can actually make that happen.
-
And one of the things
they're exploring is Wikibase.
-
And just the last point to say,
-
if you're in Berlin
on the 5th of December,
-
and you'd like to come
to the digiS Annual Conference,
-
where every year our partners present
their projects, it's fascinating.
-
We've got a very broad spectrum.
You're welcome to come along.
-
Details there in German on the URL.
-
Thank you for your attention.
-
(applause)
-
And I'll just point out, if you want,
there are some interesting readings.
-
This never loads for some reason,
-
but it’s actually an article
by Linda Nochlan
-
about why there are no great
women artists from 1971.
-
It was republished
a few years ago, online.
-
The link there will work.
It's a fascinating article.
-
Invisible women: Exposing Data Bias
in a World Designed for Men,
-
also fascinating.
-
And this is a book about Die Malweiber.
-
Right!
-
(person 1) Can you show that...
-
- Mm-hmm. Yup.
- (person 1) ...[in writing]?
-
Questions?
-
(person 2) So, how did you initially
find those women?
-
Because they are in a museum
database, I guess.
-
How did they end up
in the museum database?
-
[inaudible]
-
So, the museum has artworks
by these artists,
-
so they basically got them
in a storage facility somewhere,
-
and they have it
in their collection system
-
saying this is this painting
by this and this artist.
-
So they've got that data.
-
(person 2) Then you solve
a notability problem, right?
-
It would if it was online,
but it's not online.
-
This collection resource--
-
(person 3) [inaudible]
been made public [inaudible].
-
Yeah, I can't--
-
(person 2) That's not needed,
-
like if you referenced
a book, that's also good enough.
-
(person 3) You could reference
an offline catalog.
-
Yeah, but again it's a question of, well,
I don't even have an offline catalog.
-
I could maybe say it's the museum
or whichever collection...
-
(person 2) I was going to say,
I understand it's a small museum,
-
and maybe they don't have
a very sophisticated--
-
Well, Stadtmuseum
is not small, but, yeah. (chuckles)
-
(person 2) Maybe
they don't have the resources
-
to really put up something
sophisticated metadata-wise,
-
but you could literally have them
publish even a press release.
-
Whatever mechanism they have
of pushing data online that is by them,
-
that is by the state museum,
-
that can say, "Here is a list of women
who were systematically excluded,
-
and yet, here is what we know about them.
-
And we say this as the state museum."
-
That is a source.
-
This was exactly the problem.
-
So, they did have
this exhibition that's online,
-
but that's only 20 of, I think,
50 women artists.
-
(person 2) But they can say that
about all of them.
-
That's why I think Wikidata
also relaxed the rules a bit,
-
and let me keep that data in,
-
because I had it all up
in the Wikidata import page.
-
But as I'm trying to say
with Ida Maurer-Hahn,
-
I don't have any external reference,
-
and I hoped, though,
just getting the GND IDs,
-
we'll have an opportunity to...
-
(person 2) I just wanted
to mention, this is Andrew,
-
and his talk was about The Met,
-
the one I mentioned
to you about this morning.
-
- So you two should talk.
- Fantastic!
-
(person 2) Because he's also doing
interesting things with museums,
-
So, I just wanted
to make sure you connect.
-
And we should publish
some of the artworks on Wikidata
-
to make the data more complete.
-
Well, I should also point out
that some of the things we uploaded--
-
So, the Stadtmuseum
is very focused at the moment
-
on the Humboldt Forum,
which is being set up in Berlin.
-
Of these artworks that we digitized,
-
some of them have now
run into rights issues,
-
some of them were taken offline again.
-
The moment we're digitizing this stuff,
-
half our work is really dealing
with legal issues
-
and trying to explain to the institutions.
-
Because even if an artwork
is in the public domain,
-
when it's being digitized or photographed,
-
certain rights are then
ascribed to the person.
-
(person 2) But to be on Wikidata,
-
it doesn't have to be
in the public domain.
-
No, but it has to have
a fairly unrestricted license.
-
Not on Wikidata, sorry,
but if I'm talking about the actual image.
-
- Sorry, I thought you meant the image.
- (person 2) I was talking about Wikidata.
-
The metadata itself, that's all
been put online. CC0, no problem.
-
(person 4) Hi! Your sources
don't have to be online.
-
So, if they have a printed catalog,
-
whether it's an exhibition catalog,
or a catalog of a whole collection,
-
you can create an item
about that publication
-
and then use a stated in property
-
to cite that.
-
That's the problem.
Not all the artists are in the catalog.
-
They do have a catalog,
-
but it's only 20 of 50,
I think, women artists.
-
That's the whole issue.
-
They selected out of their whole
collection of artists,
-
they only selected 20 of those artists.
-
So, there's still no written
record of them anyway.
-
Like I said, I mean, hopefully,
if within the next few weeks
-
I can get the GND IDs
of the 19 missing artists, then...
-
(person 4) And further than that,
-
if you can state
that a painting is in a collection,
-
and an artist is the creator
of that painting,
-
or indeed the subject
of the self-portrait painting,
-
then I think that satisfies
the requirements
-
for inclusion in Wikidata.
-
It seems to so far.
No one has deleted them yet.
-
Because that was that problem too.
-
The reason why those things got deleted
-
is there was a gap of a few months
between when the artists were uploaded
-
and when I could complete
uploading the paintings.
-
But, yeah, since all the paintings
have been linked now too.
-
But I don't have any of those
like Ida Maurer-Hahn.
-
They're just statements at the moment
but without any references.
-
Hopefully, that will change soon.
-
(person 5) Hi. Thank you for your talk.
-
I have a question concerning
the GLAM institution you mentioned.
-
What do you think
are their learnings on this project,
-
because [inaudible]
also have a lot of GLAM work,
-
and then for me it's interesting to see
what the institution is thinking
-
about a collaboration
with Wikidata for future work.
-
I mean, you sound a bit disappointed.
-
This is exactly the part where I need...
-
I need to be able to show them
what they can do with the data online,
-
because at the moment
it's a battle for us
-
even just to get them to deliver
structured metadata.
-
So we work a lot with LIDO.
-
That will be passed on
to the Deutsche Digitale Bibliothek.
-
It's a huge battle to get any data
into LIDO, for a start,
-
and then we upload it to the DDB,
which has its own issues.
-
Then with Wikidata,
I've sort of tried to show--
-
We actually had Jason Evans two years ago
give a presentation to say,
-
"This is what you can do.
This is what we've done in Wales."
-
But every city has got
its own speed and tempo.
-
Hopefully, out of this Stadtmuseum
with their data,
-
we can start doing
some interesting things,
-
find some applications
and other institutions
-
that can maybe upload their data.
-
But at the moment,
the museums, the GLAMs--
-
it's just not on their radar,
-
because they're so occupied
with fundamental existential issues
-
that, you know, linked data
is for them like,
-
"What the hell are you
wasting my time with that for?
-
I'm going to make sure
I can pay my employees,
-
of which there's only one, for next year."
-
But we try.
-
That's our role as we see it too.
-
This whole funding program
is supposed to kind of...
-
I mean, the other major thing
is long-term digital preservation.
-
We said, "Look,
you can digitize this stuff,
-
but having it
on a hard drive is not good.
-
You've got to have it
into a proper system,
-
where, in 100 years, someone
can actually access this resource."
-
(person 5) I feel your pain
about the relevance
-
because I ran into a lot
of these same issues of the Wikipedia,
-
especially the German language Wikipedia
has these really strong relevance criteria
-
that are absolutely observed
-
and tend to exclude
a lot of important information.
-
Would it help to change
the relevance criteria?
-
Would that at all be possible?
-
Because I'm afraid, of course,
that people will be afraid
-
that then "unnotable"--
whatever that means-- things
-
would manage to get in.
-
Well, this is it, I mean...
-
(sighs)
-
I think the moment someone makes
an effort to upload something,
-
it becomes notable to a degree,
-
and I think the criteria at this stage,
though, are actually quite flexible,
-
but I do think you run into that issue
of there are notability criteria...
-
There is a process
that has been put in place,
-
but it still depends on
what an admin does.
-
At that time, when I got in touch
with that admin,
-
he or she had deleted
150,000 different items.
-
So, there is a certain degree
of arbitrariness in the whole process,
-
because at least I could
convince him to put it back on,
-
but I know from the Wikidata mailing list
-
there's quite a few people
who ran into the same issue
-
where stuff has been deleted.
-
So, I think the solution is to go
the route, as I understand,
-
that Wikidata is proposing to
of Wikibase installations.
-
They're making it a lot easier.
-
The Wikibase Docker
is a lot easier to install.
-
I tried to install it about
a year ago and struggled,
-
and I managed to get
an instance up and running
-
and actually usable very easily
with the Docker container.
-
And I think that's the way to go.
-
If you can get the institutions to see
how easy it is to set it up.
-
15 years ago, they didn't have websites.
Now they have websites.
-
And I would hope for Berlin, at least,
-
that we can maybe get
a Wikibase instance going
-
and get a few museums
to upload their curated data,
-
and then see how
we can feed that into Wikidata.
-
And then I think everyone's happy,
I would hope, but yeah...
-
(person 6) I'm going to ask a question
you're unlikely to be able to answer.
-
But I'm going to ask it anyway.
-
I'm curious about the women
whose artworks haven't been collected
-
by the institutions
-
because it sounds to me
-
like there's a large group
of women artists,
-
some of whom won't have
had their paintings collected
-
and don't appear to be
in the record anywhere.
-
As a result, is there any movement
or any research being undertaken,
-
or anything you're aware of
to try and find these women
-
and get them into the record?
-
It’s like an extra step.
-
No, I think, this is the thing.
-
We can only start with the museums
what they've got, basically.
-
The Stadtmuseum gets a lot of donations,
as well from people around,
-
and then if maybe
something turns up, they go,
-
"Well, we don't know who this artist is,
and we can try to [track it back]."
-
That's the only serendipitous way
it's going to happen.
-
But I think Berlin and Germany
with its history
-
has lost so much artwork through bombing
and destruction, whatever, too,
-
that I think there's a lot
that has been lost permanently.
-
(person 5) Okay. Thank you.
-
(person 6) There's a group--
-
I can't remember the name
for the life of me.
-
but they actually do a lot of work
with Italian artists.
-
There's also work done in the UK
-
to kind of bring back women artists
back to the front.
-
And so, I think all these
local initiatives
-
might need to start working together
-
to do something global,
to push more for it.
-
Maybe that would do something more.
-
(person 7) I wanted to inquire
if there's a right direction to go
-
to animate institutions
-
to take part in making their data linked,
-
or open, in some kind of way available.
-
Should there be
other institutions approaching--
-
Jealousy, it has to be jealousy.
-
That's the only way you're going to do it.
-
(person 7) I see. (chuckles)
-
You need to get one institution
leading the way and people saying,
-
"Wow! Look what they can do
with their data! We want that too!"
-
I think that's the way web servers
got going really,
-
and I think that's the only way
linked data is going to work
-
is to make them jealous.
-
(person 7) So, you think
that the institutions
-
that are not having this great
linked data Wikibase instance stuff
-
are going to say, "Yeah, we need that!"
-
and then are trying to find some people
that can set it up for them.
-
Or should they approach other institutions
that can help them with it?
-
Or which is the right direction
for them to go?
-
For a starter, you've got to realize
that data is a process.
-
It's never finished.
-
It's always something you’re working on,
-
and we would encourage any institution
to take the first step,
-
but only to get cooperation.
-
So the Stadtmuseum Berlin
has helped a lot of smaller museums
-
because then they say,
"Look, we've got this stuff,
-
we need to do something with it."
-
And then they'll share it with
the Stadtmuseum, so to speak,
-
and help it get online.
-
But we really have institutions
-
where there's just two working on it
in there, part-time.
-
It's going to take a while
before they get on that trajectory,
-
but I would hope that
as the processes become better,
-
as Wikibase gets easier to use,
-
and as people get to see
what the advantages are of it.
-
But I really think it's a process
-
that you're always going
to have to support,
-
and it's something you're always going
to have to make clear
-
to the funding institutions,
-
that it's not something they can just
throw some money at, and then it's done.
-
It's going to need permanent funding.
Libraries need permanent funding.
-
Anything to do with digital resources
also need permanent funding, I think.
-
(moderator) Sorry, I think we have
just run out of time for questions.
-
I encourage you to keep talking
after the session,
-
and thank you so much to our speaker
and all the attendees.
-
Thank you.
-
(applause)